Shutting down after this semester.
Not surprising for any second-tier private university.
Unless they have some sort of special niche they serve, the days of most of them are numbered. No one is going into six figures of debt to attend a school that no one outside their state has heard of.
BTW, where did you hear this?
It doesn't appear to show up in any of the news sources online.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw4hepjCvRs
Journal Sentinel article just posted:
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/education/2023/04/10/milwaukees-cardinal-stritch-university-shutting-down-operations/70101536007/
Quote from: warriorchick on April 10, 2023, 06:24:44 PM
Not surprising for any second-tier private university.
Unless they have some sort of special niche they serve, the days of most of them are numbered. No one is going into six figures of debt to attend a school that no one outside their state has heard of.
I agree. The switch to "university" stretched resources at Stritch. Should have focused on cranking out education degrees.
OUCH.
My MU roommate's wife has been a teacher there for 10+ years. A few years ago, she'd mentioned shutting down as a possibility, but a ~year ago, she thought the situation had stabilized. Guess not.
Closures will only go up
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on April 10, 2023, 08:15:16 PM
Closures will only go up
Same thing happened in the Bay Area with Holy Names University. A traditional nursing school that got out over its skis.
Property should be sufficient there to cover any remaining debt obligations. Unless Oakland intervenes.
Quote from: dgies9156 on April 10, 2023, 08:21:53 PM
Same thing happened in the Bay Area with Holy Names University. A traditional nursing school that got out over its skis.
Property should be sufficient there to cover any remaining debt obligations. Unless Oakland intervenes.
I am guessing Stritch's 40 acres in Fox Point is worth some money. Its highest and best use may involve knocking down a lot of their buildings.
Quote from: warriorchick on April 10, 2023, 08:25:30 PM
I am guessing Stritch's 40 acres in Fox Point is worth some money. Its highest and best use may involve knocking down a lot of their buildings.
True .. although just a half mile south, Bayshore is constructing 300 apartments, so .. that market is somewhat saturated. I don't see it as retail either .. maybe single-family units.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 10, 2023, 09:20:59 PM
True .. although just a half mile south, Bayshore is constructing 300 apartments, so .. that market is somewhat saturated. I don't see it as retail either .. maybe single-family units.
Arby's Megaplex
Quote from: warriorchick on April 10, 2023, 08:25:30 PM
I am guessing Stritch's 40 acres in Fox Point is worth some money. Its highest and best use may involve knocking down a lot of their buildings.
Did MU have any discussions about taking it over? Could have picked up the land by assuming the education component , broadly defined .
Thats what Iona did with Concordia New York.
Quote from: Herman Cain on April 11, 2023, 06:14:00 AM
Did MU have any discussions about taking it over? Could have picked up the land by assuming the education component , broadly defined .
Thats what Iona did with Concordia New York.
Sometimes this can make sense (Loyola Chicago did this with Mundelein College in the 1990s), but only if there is a specific niche that the smaller university addressed that the parent university did not have. I don't really see that with Stritch and MU. MU already has a very vibrant and successful education program. I don't see it as a value add.
It might be too late but what would have made more sense to me is a Stritch-Alverno-Mount Mary merger. Combine the resources of the three tiny Milwaukee Catholic colleges to try to stay afloat.
It kinda blows my mind that Milwaukee still has TWO all-women colleges in 2023.
Heard yesterday that there's another Wisconsin private school that doesn't know if they are going to be able to make payroll over the summer. At this point I am less confident about more private colleges in Wisconsin surviving the next decade than I am in those who will for sure survive.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on April 11, 2023, 12:45:15 PM
Heard yesterday that there's another Wisconsin private school that doesn't know if they are going to be able to make payroll over the summer. At this point I am less confident about more private colleges in Wisconsin surviving the next decade than I am in those who will for sure survive.
I could think of probably a dozen+ off the top of my head that wouldn't surprise me if they closed this year. I think maybe half of these schools survive the next decade:
Maranatha
Edgewood
MIAD
Northland
Marian
Alverno
Mt Mary
Viterbo
Ripon
Concordia
Lawrence
Wis Lutheran
Lakeland, Carthage, Caroll and Saint Norbert have higher enrollment than the rest so I feel a little better about those, but even those are iffy long term.
I think MSOE is safe due to the increased demand around STEM.
Quote from: Coleman on April 11, 2023, 01:23:57 PM
I could think of probably a dozen+ off the top of my head that wouldn't surprise me if they closed this year. I think maybe half of these schools survive the next decade:
Maranatha
Edgewood
MIAD
Northland
Marian
Alverno
Mt Mary
Viterbo
Ripon
Concordia
Lawrence
Carthage
Wis Lutheran
Lakeland, Caroll and Saint Norbert have higher enrollment than the rest so I feel a little better about those two, but even those are iffy long term.
So, every small college in Wisconsin?
Quote from: warriorchick on April 11, 2023, 01:26:43 PM
So, every small college in Wisconsin?
I updated it. There are a handful that I think are safer than others, but basically, yes
Lawrence, St Norbert and Carroll will be fine though Lawrence will struggle to retain their national recruiting footprint. They also have an enormous endowment for their size. My guess is Concordia will be doing OK given their academic program array.
It's also not just about enrollment but how much that enrollment pays. And that's really the big unknown. So many schools are paying unsustainable rates for students these days so it's hard to tell who is doing well by enrollment.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on April 11, 2023, 01:30:11 PM
Lawrence, St Norbert and Carroll will be fine though Lawrence will struggle to retain their national recruiting footprint. They also have an enormous endowment for their size. My guess is Concordia will be doing OK given their academic program array.
LOL. That's what she said.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 10, 2023, 09:20:59 PM
True .. although just a half mile south, Bayshore is constructing 300 apartments, so .. that market is somewhat saturated. I don't see it as retail either .. maybe single-family units.
There is a housing shortage in almost every big city. Milwaukee is no exception.
Quote from: Herman Cain on April 11, 2023, 06:14:00 AM
Did MU have any discussions about taking it over? Could have picked up the land by assuming the education component , broadly defined .
Thats what Iona did with Concordia New York.
Maybe Marquette can move out of the warzone it currently is in!
Quote from: Hards Alumni on April 12, 2023, 12:47:19 PM
There is a housing shortage in almost every big city. Milwaukee is no exception.
I've certainly heard that before .. but I found this interesting:
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/milwaukee/2023/04/07/milwaukee-county-population-fell-most-in-wisconsin-during-pandemic/70081079007/
So .. there are 21k fewer people in Milwaukee County since 2020.
I would think that would make a huge dent in housing shortages .. figure 21k / 3 people per unit = 7000 units freed up over 3 years.
(Certainly, if a builder said they were going to create 7000 units in the county, people would tout that as a huge solution to the housing crisis.)
(Or was it 21000 homeless people, leaving the county? ;) )
I have a feeling it's not a housing crisis .. it's greedflation, where the market is very inefficient, landlords charge high rates because why wouldn't they, and renters take what they can find, rinse, repeat.
DePaul just announced a $56 million deficit for the upcoming year and is also announcing cuts
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/education/depaul-faces-566-million-deficit-plans-cuts?utm_source=afternoon-10&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20230412&utm_content=article1-headline
Quote from: Coleman on April 12, 2023, 04:03:54 PM
DePaul just announced a $56 million deficit for the upcoming year and is also announcing cuts
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/education/depaul-faces-566-million-deficit-plans-cuts?utm_source=afternoon-10&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20230412&utm_content=article1-headline
Thanks for nothing. How many scoopers subscribe to Crain's Chicago Business?
Quote from: warriorchick on April 12, 2023, 04:38:28 PM
Thanks for nothing. How many scoopers subscribe to Crain's Chicago Business?
I do haha
https://depauliaonline.com/63719/news/faculty-decisions-made-hastily-without-collaboration-in-effort-to-close-56-5-million-gap/
What's really strange is that it is really late to realize your budget was going to be that bad. Generally you know what your returning students are going to be and how much they will pay. In my experience, you can get a good guess in the Fall assuming your recruitment looks good. Unless they missed their recruitment and retention by a ton, I don't know how they could have screwed that up so badly.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on April 12, 2023, 05:11:14 PM
https://depauliaonline.com/63719/news/faculty-decisions-made-hastily-without-collaboration-in-effort-to-close-56-5-million-gap/
What's really strange is that it is really late to realize your budget was going to be that bad. Generally you know what your returning students are going to be and how much they will pay. In my experience, you can get a good guess in the Fall assuming your recruitment looks good. Unless they missed their recruitment and retention by a ton, I don't know how they could have screwed that up so badly.
It's DePaul.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on April 12, 2023, 05:11:14 PM
https://depauliaonline.com/63719/news/faculty-decisions-made-hastily-without-collaboration-in-effort-to-close-56-5-million-gap/
What's really strange is that it is really late to realize your budget was going to be that bad. Generally you know what your returning students are going to be and how much they will pay. In my experience, you can get a good guess in the Fall assuming your recruitment looks good. Unless they missed their recruitment and retention by a ton, I don't know how they could have screwed that up so badly.
This goes into way more detail than the Crains article. Thanks for sending.
I share the concern that was mentioned about administrative bloat. Why are they cutting student-facing teaching roles and not administration?
As for how this happened, Sounds like something got missed during the the transition to a new administration. That plus an enrollment decline of about 2,000 students
Quote from: Coleman on April 13, 2023, 07:07:31 AM
This goes into way more detail than the Crains article. Thanks for sending.
I share the concern that was mentioned about administrative bloat. Why are they cutting student-facing teaching roles and not administration?
As for how this happened, Sounds like something got missed during the the transition to a new administration. That plus an enrollment decline of about 2,000 students
The reason you are cutting instruction is because if there are 2,000 less students, you don't need to teach as many courses. Especially your freshman level gen-ed type courses like your writing, college math, etc. Usually those are filled with adjuncts or visiting professors which means they are on one year contracts that are easy to get out from under.
A lot of administrative divisions don't see such a decrease in demand with less students. For instance, your finance and accounting doesn't change. Your fundraising. Your information technology (by and large). But some do...health services, financial aid, academic advising, etc.
Quote from: Coleman on April 13, 2023, 07:07:31 AM
This goes into way more detail than the Crains article. Thanks for sending.
I share the concern that was mentioned about administrative bloat. Why are they cutting student-facing teaching roles and not administration?
As for how this happened, Sounds like something got missed during the the transition to a new administration. That plus an enrollment decline of about 2,000 students
I think you answered your own question.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on April 13, 2023, 07:57:49 AM
The reason you are cutting instruction is because if there are 2,000 less students, you don't need to teach as many courses. Especially your freshman level gen-ed type courses like your writing, college math, etc. Usually those are filled with adjuncts or visiting professors which means they are on one year contracts that are easy to get out from under.
A lot of administrative divisions don't see such a decrease in demand with less students. For instance, your finance and accounting doesn't change. Your fundraising. Your information technology (by and large). But some do...health services, financial aid, academic advising, etc.
This is roughly analogous to a business trimming expenses where it can when sales decline and it is unlikely that they will increase in the near future. The fixed expenses-rent (or mortgage), loan servicing, utilities (although there may be
some reduction of expenses here), finance and accounting (as you pointed out),
etc. simply cannot easily be reduced. Near me, Sweetbriar College was rescued by some very wealthy alumnae determined to keep SBC from closing. Otherwise, the college would have closed as planned due largely to steadily decreased enrollment. The numbers simply were not working. Harsh but true.
From that article ..
"Bad financial decisions have been made in the past," Curran said. "...We build new buildings, we spend a lot of money on athletics."
It'd be amusing to see the chart that had enrollment vs. employment .. and add data points on Big East wins/year. Lagging indicator? ;)
DePaul University's reputation beyond Chicago is definitely painted due to their basketball futility, probably in the negative ROI zone.
I agree with the quandary about how did they get surprised so bad. It's not like their freshman class was suddenly -50%.
My bigger question for a decade has been is MU planning to decrease student count and increase scholarships. These have to be top priorities? Beyond building in my opinion.
They seem to be doing it on the scholarship side. It seems to me that they have expanded the scholarship amounts a lot recently - no insider info - just what I've seen in limited cases I know about.
On the size, people in the know on this board have pushed back in the past and have said the plan is more students, or at least not downsizing. That has made and continues to make no sense to me. Can't do it with the demographics etc, unless the scholarship money increases a lot more - I doubt that is happening. Getting smaller has to be part of the short and long term plan. That would also decrease acceptance rates or at least not make them worse.
Quote from: GOO on April 14, 2023, 09:49:28 AM
My bigger question for a decade has been is MU planning to decrease student count and increase scholarships. These have to be top priorities? Beyond building in my opinion.
They seem to be doing it on the scholarship side. It seems to me that they have expanded the scholarship amounts a lot recently - no insider info - just what I've seen in limited cases I know about.
On the size, people in the know on this board have pushed back in the past and have said the plan is more students, or at least not downsizing. That has made and continues to make no sense to me. Can't do it with the demographics etc, unless the scholarship money increases a lot more - I doubt that is happening. Getting smaller has to be part of the short and long term plan. That would also decrease acceptance rates or at least not make them worse.
Agree with everything you say here. Increasing enrollment would, by definition, mean lowering standards, considering the number of graduating high school seniors is going to continue to decrease over the next 10-15 years. Keeping enrollment stable is a great goal but I'm not sure how realistic. Preparing for a decline of 5-10% enrollment over the next ten years, with regards to expenses, would be the prudent thing to do. If enrollment stays stable, MU's position will be all the better. If you plan now using natural attrition and minimizing hiring as much as possible, you won't need to lay off down the road.
I think Marquette is focusing on recruiting to programs in business, engineering and nursing where students are paying more in net tuition than they would in arts and sciences and communication.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on April 14, 2023, 11:16:20 AM
I think Marquette is focusing on recruiting to programs in business, engineering and nursing where students are paying more in net tuition than they would in arts and sciences and communication.
ROI has finally found its way to Higher Education.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on April 14, 2023, 11:16:20 AM
I think Marquette is focusing on recruiting to programs in business, engineering and nursing where students are paying more in net tuition than they would in arts and sciences and communication.
This
Quote from: PBRme on April 14, 2023, 01:39:49 PM
ROI has finally found its way to Higher Education.
There's no "finally" about it. For years, schools like North Carolina and Virginia have worked hard to bring in out-of-state students, who pay significantly higher tuition than in-state.
Quote from: MU82 on April 14, 2023, 10:34:02 PM
There's no "finally" about it. For years, schools like North Carolina and Virginia have worked hard to bring in out-of-state students, who pay significantly higher tuition than in-state.
Yep. Virginia is chock full of small colleges and most have survived by being proactive. However, there have been some casualties. Realistically, I think most of the survivors are simply buying time.
DePaul planning cuts to deal with $56 million budget shortfall.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/education/depaul-university-20230416-l4okl27cgvd4hb62dthd2q7rve-story.html
Quote from: Pakuni on April 16, 2023, 07:24:39 AM
DePaul planning cuts to deal with $56 million budget shortfall.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/education/depaul-university-20230416-l4okl27cgvd4hb62dthd2q7rve-story.html
I
think President Manuel is the genius who made a statement early in his tenure that men's bball should not receive too much money from DP "at the expense of the other sports" or words to that effect. He simply did not understand the economic value of men's bball and its ability to increase enrollment. Instead of recognizing men's bball's value, he blew it off.
Like in business, there are two ways of successfully handling financial problems, and more often than not, it is really a combination of the two. A) Cut expenses B) Increase (profitable) revenue. Simply cutting expenses is too often just a way of hanging on for a while. It would not surprise me if Manuel heads DP in this direction. He impresses me as a small thinker.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on April 16, 2023, 08:08:15 AM
I think President Manuel is the genius who made a statement early in his tenure that men's bball should not receive too much money from DP "at the expense of the other sports" or words to that effect. He simply did not understand the economic value of men's bball and its ability to increase enrollment. Instead of recognizing men's bball's value, he blew it off.
Like in business, there are two ways of successfully handling financial problems, and more often than not, it is really a combination of the two. A) Cut expenses B) Increase (profitable) revenue. Simply cutting expenses is too often just a way of hanging on for a while. It would not surprise me if Manuel heads DP in this direction. He impresses me as a small thinker.
Manuel has only been the President for just under a year. The previous President arrived in 2017. I think it was Holtschnieder (something like that) who was the President when they joined the BE up till 2017. He and JLP, the AD who basically said "who cares about MBB, we are good at softball, soccer, and other sports!" That set it all ablaze
Marian University facing "enrollment emergency." Cutting multiple programs.
https://www.radioplusinfo.com/2023/04/13/4-13-23-marian-university-enrollment-emergency/
Quote from: JWags85 on April 16, 2023, 02:51:46 PM
Manuel has only been the President for just under a year. The previous President arrived in 2017. I think it was Holtschnieder (something like that) who was the President when they joined the BE up till 2017. He and JLP, the AD who basically said "who cares about MBB, we are good at softball, soccer, and other sports!" That set it all ablaze
Thanks for the correction. So I had the wrong name, but the "who cares about MBB" was right. It amazes me that a university president (and especially an ignorant AD) could be so clueless and make statements to that effect. I do not envy university presidents having to struggle with today's financial challenges-especially private U's-but damn! If they cannot understand how men's bball works financially, I do not have much hope that they can solve the overall financial problems.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on April 17, 2023, 07:38:27 AM
Thanks for the correction. So I had the wrong name, but the "who cares about MBB" was right. It amazes me that a university president (and especially an ignorant AD) could be so clueless and make statements to that effect. I do not envy university presidents having to struggle with today's financial challenges-especially private U's-but damn! If they cannot understand how men's bball works financially, I do not have much hope that they can solve the overall financial problems.
Dennis Holschneider was considered a pretty successful president. Probably the only thing that didn't go well during his tenure was the men's basketball program.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on April 17, 2023, 07:47:07 AM
Dennis Holschneider was considered a pretty successful president. Probably the only thing that didn't go well during his tenure was the men's basketball program.
OK. You are certainly in a perfect position to judge. Pardon my rant on presidents, but it just seems that all too often they have a problem with reality.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on April 17, 2023, 08:33:59 AM
OK. You are certainly in a perfect position to judge. Pardon my rant on presidents, but it just seems that all too often they have a problem with reality.
To be honest, its a job with a lot of conflicting priorities and on-the-job training.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on April 17, 2023, 07:47:07 AM
Dennis Holschneider was considered a pretty successful president. Probably the only thing that didn't go well during his tenure was the men's basketball program.
And to his defense, that probably had a lot to do with leaning on the input and advice of the long time AD, who was a joke as well.
He was President when they nuked the prestige and reputation of their MBA program for quick bucks, but I'm not sure how much he was personally involved with that decision making.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on April 14, 2023, 11:16:20 AM
I think Marquette is focusing on recruiting to programs in business, engineering and nursing where students are paying more in net tuition than they would in arts and sciences and communication.
So MU is not a destination for a degree (undergrad or grad) in chemistry, the life sciences, math or computer science.
i have heard nothing but accolades for MU's PT department. this is from one of a few-
a very good friend of mine's son suffered a brutal spinal cord injury about 2 years ago. he is essentially a quadriplegic with some very limited movements with his arms/hands. after using a number of PT locations, he has settled in on MU and makes a 30 mile drive numerous times per week. he believes MU along with the help of some docs may someday restore some of his 23 year old son's mobility.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 17, 2023, 10:42:56 PM
i have heard nothing but accolades for MU's PT department. this is from one of a few-
a very good friend of mine's son suffered a brutal spinal cord injury about 2 years ago. he is essentially a quadriplegic with some very limited movements with his arms/hands. after using a number of PT locations, he has settled in on MU and makes a 30 mile drive numerous times per week. he believes MU along with the help of some docs may someday restore some of his 23 year old son's mobility.
They use to or still have a good Medical Technology department. I also remember fellow students majoring in speech therapy as well.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on April 18, 2023, 04:47:06 AM
They use to or still have a good Medical Technology department. I also remember fellow students majoring in speech therapy as well.
given the fact that MU does have good and/or a demand for fields in the health sciences including nursing, dentistry, PT, med tech and speech tx., etc., wouldn't it behoove them to preempt that with showing support with strong departments in the health sciences. i'm not sure about more cost efficient alternatives...
back in our good ole warrior days, i felt by beginning my studies at MU and majoring in biology, it would increase my chances and give me an advantage to getting in to MUSOD. not to mention it was where i wanted to go anyway UW-parkside, on the other hand also had a very good program in the sciences as well; my dental school class had 3 or 4 admits from there. the savings had to be notable. my only regret was that i would have liked to have majored in a study within the biological field itself. i understand how that can be more prohibitive and limiting at a school such as MU
Quote from: muwarrior69 on April 17, 2023, 08:24:40 PM
So MU is not a destination for a degree (undergrad or grad) in chemistry, the life sciences, math or computer science.
Here is their page that shows their current majors. Plenty of A&S majors there.
https://www.marquette.edu/institutional-research-analysis/interactive-reports/major-dash.php
https://www.marquette.edu/institutional-research-analysis/interactive-reports/major-dash.php
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on April 18, 2023, 07:39:43 AM
Here is their page that shows their current majors. Plenty of A&S majors there.
https://www.marquette.edu/institutional-research-analysis/interactive-reports/major-dash.php
https://www.marquette.edu/institutional-research-analysis/interactive-reports/major-dash.php
Are tuition costs really higher for the business majors than the Chemistry, Life Science or Biomedical majors? Why would Marquette focus recruiting on the Business, Engineering and Nursing disciplines and not the STEM majors.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on April 18, 2023, 11:10:19 AM
Are tuition costs really higher for the business majors than the Chemistry, Life Science or Biomedical majors? Why would Marquette focus recruiting on the Business, Engineering and Nursing disciplines and not the STEM majors.
It's not that Marquette charges more - I don't know if they do or not. But students in those majors in general will PAY more. (IOW, be willing to attend the school with a smaller scholarship package.)
Quote from: muwarrior69 on April 17, 2023, 08:24:40 PM
So MU is not a destination for a degree (undergrad or grad) in chemistry, the life sciences, math or computer science.
MU is a destination for Engineering, Health Sciences (nursing, PT, speech path, etc.), Dentistry, and to a lesser extent, Business and Law.
It has some respectable programs in A&S, especially at the graduate level, but I would not think of it as a destination. I say this as someone who graduated from A&S
It doesn't tell the whole story, but take a look at buildings: Weir Chemistry and Life Sciences buildings are decrepit. Business, Engineering, and Dentistry have state of the art buildings, and Nursing is getting a fully renovated Straz.
Quote from: Coleman on April 18, 2023, 11:26:04 AM
MU is a destination for Engineering, Health Sciences (nursing, PT, speech path, etc.), Dentistry, and to a lesser extent, Business and Law.
It has some respectable programs in A&S, especially at the graduate level, but I would not think of it as a destination. I say this as someone who graduated from A&S
It doesn't tell the whole story, but take a look at buildings: Weir Chemistry and Life Sciences buildings are decrepit. Business, Engineering, and Dentistry have state of the art buildings, and Nursing is getting a fully renovated Straz.
And Lalumier probably looks the same as when I first graced its halls 37 years ago.
Quote from: Coleman on April 18, 2023, 11:26:04 AM
MU is a destination for Engineering, Health Sciences (nursing, PT, speech path, etc.), Dentistry, and to a lesser extent, Business and Law.
It has some respectable programs in A&S, especially at the graduate level, but I would not think of it as a destination. I say this as someone who graduated from A&S
It doesn't tell the whole story, but take a look at buildings: Weir Chemistry and Life Sciences buildings are decrepit. Business, Engineering, and Dentistry have state of the art buildings, and Nursing is getting a fully renovated Straz.
So where are all the Biomedical science majors taking classes, since it appears to be the top major?
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on April 18, 2023, 11:38:07 AM
And Lalumier probably looks the same as when I first graced its halls 37 years ago.
Lalumier's ceiling was perpetually leaking when I had classes there 15 years ago. Our classroom always had a bucket with water dripping.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on April 18, 2023, 11:56:59 AM
So where are all the Biomedical science majors taking classes, since it appears to be the top major?
Biomedical Sciences is in the College of Health Sciences, not A&S. Not sure where they have classes, but I assume it is in similar facilities as Speech Path, PT, etc. Back in my day most of these programs were in Schroeder Complex. That may have changed. They may have a couple prerequisite classes in one of the Wehr buildings. I have no idea.
Biomedical Sciences is more or less MU's name for Pre-Med and Pre-Dent
Quote from: Coleman on April 18, 2023, 12:54:06 PM
Biomedical Sciences is in the College of Health Sciences, not A&S. Not sure where they have classes, but I assume it is in similar facilities as Speech Path, PT, etc. Back in my day most of these programs were in Schroeder Complex. That may have changed. They may have a couple prerequisite classes in one of the Wehr buildings. I have no idea.
Biomedical Sciences is more or less MU's name for Pre-Med and Pre-Dent
Back in my day all the pre-meds and pre-dents took all the same classes as I did as a double major in chemistry and biology.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on April 18, 2023, 11:56:59 AM
So where are all the Biomedical science majors taking classes, since it appears to be the top major?
20 years ago, wehr chemistry, wehr life sciences, health sciences building, nursing building... etc.
Everyone was quite spread out
Quote from: muwarrior69 on April 18, 2023, 02:02:32 PM
Back in my day all the pre-meds and pre-dents took all the same classes as I did as a double major in chemistry and biology.
I'm sure some are the same now. I'm sure some are different. Curricula changes.
Marquette circling the transfers...
https://today.marquette.edu/2023/04/marquette-offers-support-to-cardinal-stritch-community/
Any versatile 6'9 forwards among them?
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 19, 2023, 08:49:17 AM
Marquette circling the transfers...
https://today.marquette.edu/2023/04/marquette-offers-support-to-cardinal-stritch-community/
Interesting to see if they will match financial aid. That is often the hang up with these things.
Quote from: tower912 on April 19, 2023, 09:12:59 AM
Any versatile 6'9 forwards among them?
6'8"
https://stritchwolves.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 19, 2023, 08:49:17 AM
Marquette circling the transfers...
https://today.marquette.edu/2023/04/marquette-offers-support-to-cardinal-stritch-community/
This should help recruiting
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on April 19, 2023, 09:15:56 AM
Interesting to see if they will match financial aid. That is often the hang up with these things.
It looks like a yes.
https://www.marquette.edu/admissions/cardinal-stritch.php (https://www.marquette.edu/admissions/cardinal-stritch.php)
Quote from: RJax55 on April 19, 2023, 11:37:54 AM
It looks like a yes.
https://www.marquette.edu/admissions/cardinal-stritch.php (https://www.marquette.edu/admissions/cardinal-stritch.php)
Excellent. Not all schools would be willing to do this.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 19, 2023, 08:49:17 AM
Marquette circling the transfers...
https://today.marquette.edu/2023/04/marquette-offers-support-to-cardinal-stritch-community/
Great, this will probably increase our acceptance rate.
In all seriousness, this is cool of MU to do.
Step one pick up as many students as possible. Hopefully step two acquire the property.
Quote from: Herman Cain on April 19, 2023, 01:28:49 PM
Step one pick up as many students as possible. Hopefully step two acquire the property.
Why would Marquette have interest in the property? Most of the buildings are pretty old and have a ton of deferred maintenance needs.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on April 19, 2023, 01:57:53 PM
Why would Marquette have interest in the property? Most of the buildings are pretty old and have a ton of deferred maintenance needs.
Yeah and its pretty far away from MU. I don't see the appeal of a property in Fox Point.
The Cardinal Stritch property .. will be snapped up by developers, not MU.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 19, 2023, 03:07:16 PM
The Cardinal Stritch property .. will be snapped up by developers, not MU.
And will likely benefit the Sisters of St. Francis of Assisi who sponsor Stritch and is shrinking and aging like most of these orders.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 19, 2023, 03:07:16 PM
The Cardinal Stritch property .. will be snapped up by developers, not MU.
Marquette could build a state of the art football facility there
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 19, 2023, 03:21:50 PM
Marquette could build a state of the art football facility there
(https://snipboard.io/xF0z4t.jpg)
Between the hot job market, the poor demographics, and a "simplified" FAFSA rollout that has been an outright disaster, I think there are going to be a bunch of schools in Wisconsin that are going to be heavily considering closure in the coming months.
Northland is just stringing people along at this point. And I have heard rumors about four additional private colleges in Wisconsin that lead me to believe that it's just a matter of time.
Anyway, Marquette apparently hit its tuition deposit target last week. It's restructure to focus on certain majors and programs has been handled very well.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 06, 2024, 04:11:55 PM
Between the hot job market, the poor demographics, and a "simplified" FAFSA rollout that has been an outright disaster, I think there are going to be a bunch of schools in Wisconsin that are going to be heavily considering closure in the coming months.
Northland is just stringing people along at this point. And I have heard rumors about four additional private colleges in Wisconsin that lead me to believe that it's just a matter of time.
Anyway, Marquette apparently hit its tuition deposit target last week. It's restructure to focus on certain majors and programs has been handled very well.
Worked out well for all parties.
https://www.wpr.org/education/cardinal-stritch-campus-sold-ramirez-family-foundation#:~:text=A%20foundation%20that%20supports%20a,University%20campus%20for%20%2424%20million.
Quote from: Herman Cain on May 06, 2024, 04:48:19 PM
Worked out well for all parties.
https://www.wpr.org/education/cardinal-stritch-campus-sold-ramirez-family-foundation#:~:text=A%20foundation%20that%20supports%20a,University%20campus%20for%20%2424%20million.
Exactly. Closing isn't the end of the world.
Are you going to need to dust off the old resume Sultan?
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 06, 2024, 05:27:22 PM
Are you going to need to dust off the old resume Sultan?
Nope. I'm good.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 06, 2024, 05:27:22 PM
Are you going to need to dust off the old resume Sultan?
Actually, as likely only our area news covered this ....is your job/future ok with the job layoffs at TAMU
Quote from: HouWarrior on May 07, 2024, 06:59:56 AM
Actually, as likely only our area news covered this ....is your job/future ok with the job layoffs at TAMU
Oh I'm fine. There were less than 20 people laid off. We have around 30K employees. Tiny blip in the grand scheme
A tangential issue .. As posted above, Cardinal Stritch's property was sold and is the future home of St. Augustine Prep (north) .. a K-12 private school.
They are investing $100m into razing most of the campus, and rebuilding a new school. One would assume the campus will be amazing, with new classrooms, labs, lunch rooms, gyms, fields.
As their south campus is part of the Milwaukee Choice/voucher program, the north campus will certainly be primarily voucher students as well, which accepts families under 220% of the poverty level, around $50-80k depending on family size.
Naturally, those students come from some other districts, reducing their enrollments. This probably isn't an issue for Bayside, Fox Point, WFB. But .. I think Glendale is going to be in serious trouble. Hundreds will opt to send their kids to a gorgeous new private voucher school right in their own city. Glendale only has ~950 students, so any losses will be painful.
(Obviously Milwaukee too, but that's not a new issue for them.)
Adding to Glendale's pain is their current financial catastrophe.
https://wtmj.com/news/2024/03/22/13-staff-positions-being-eliminated-to-save-glendale-river-hills-school-district-1-million/
Quote from: The Sultan on May 06, 2024, 04:11:55 PMNorthland is just stringing people along at this point. And I have heard rumors about four additional private colleges in Wisconsin that lead me to believe that it's just a matter of time.
Northland announced their closure at the end of the academic year. Should have done this last year, but after wasting a bunch of student and donor money on something that was never going to work, the inevitable happened.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 20, 2025, 04:32:37 AMNorthland announced their closure at the end of the academic year. Should have done this last year, but after wasting a bunch of student and donor money on something that was never going to work, the inevitable happened.
The shores of Lake Superior have to be more inviting than the mean streets of Marquette's campus. Maybe Mequon is just a pit stop on our way to relocating there.
It'll be trickier to fill an 18k seat arena there.
Maybe...but there will be fewer (or no) alternatives for the locals' entertainment dollars than there are in Milwaukee.
The locals...all 8,000 of them.
Quote from: The Sultan on February 20, 2025, 04:32:37 AMNorthland announced their closure at the end of the academic year. Should have done this last year, but after wasting a bunch of student and donor money on something that was never going to work, the inevitable happened.
Never heard of Northland College or knew anyone that went there. Shocked it couldn't stay open in this changing and challenging climate.
Quote from: forgetful on February 20, 2025, 08:34:15 PMNever heard of Northland College or knew anyone that went there. Shocked it couldn't stay open in this changing and challenging climate.
I knew a couple of alums who loved it. Kind of a quirky place but full of challenges given its location and dinky endowment.
Quote from: forgetful on February 20, 2025, 08:34:15 PMNever heard of Northland College or knew anyone that went there. Shocked it couldn't stay open in this changing and challenging climate.
Same here. Sounds similar to Finlandia University in the UP which closed two years ago. Enrollment around 400, they started football to increase enrollment but ran out of money.
Two more colleges bite the dust in the last week: St. Andrew's and tonight, Limestone University.
https://x.com/followLimestone/status/1917405369237713363?t=hlCJVyTXE4uffXvQGwfRhg&s=19
Gotta think Dayton is next
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on April 29, 2025, 10:22:42 PMTwo more colleges bite the dust in the last week: St. Andrew's and tonight, Limestone University.
https://x.com/followLimestone/status/1917405369237713363?t=hlCJVyTXE4uffXvQGwfRhg&s=19
This college was not built on solid ground.
Rural, poorly endowed (St. Andrews had an endowment of $12 million...yikes), and small. Common theme for a lot of these.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 30, 2025, 07:54:36 AMRural, poorly endowed (St. Andrews had an endowment of $12 million...yikes), and small. Common theme for a lot of these.
Limestone added football about 10 years ago to increase enrollment. I've read somewhere between 50% to 70% of students were athletes (D2). Their lacrosse program is a powerhouse.
This will really hurt the local community. The college has an economic impact of $150 million to the local community.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on April 30, 2025, 08:13:40 AMLimestone added football about 10 years ago to increase enrollment. I've read somewhere between 50% to 70% of students were athletes (D2). Their lacrosse program is a powerhouse.
This will really hurt the local community. The college has an economic impact of $150 million to the local community.
Reading more about Limestone, they lost half their students over the last dozen years, had $30 million in debt, and were spending down their endowment just to keep the place going. That's just not sustainable.
I will say this, I think one thing the last 10-15 years have shown is that going into significant debt for athletics and other facilities is not going to grow enrollment long-term. Have an endowment to fund scholarships, keep your debt low, have decent but not extravagent facilities, and have programs that will attract employers is the way to manage yourself these days. Too many schools are heading down the athletics path to build enrollment, so schools have to significantly discount just to get them on campus. It's just not sustainable.
And we aren't even at the "demographic cliff" yet.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 30, 2025, 08:29:40 AMReading more about Limestone, they lost half their students over the last dozen years, had $30 million in debt, and were spending down their endowment just to keep the place going. That's just not sustainable.
I will say this, I think one thing the last 10-15 years have shown is that going into significant debt for athletics and other facilities is not going to grow enrollment long-term. Have an endowment to fund scholarships, keep your debt low, have decent but not extravagent facilities, and have programs that will attract employers is the way to manage yourself these days. Too many schools are heading down the athletics path to build enrollment, so schools have to significantly discount just to get them on campus. It's just not sustainable.
And we aren't even at the "demographic cliff" yet.
Finlandia in the UP tried to football route too, and used sports to try to attract more international students and ended up shutting down. Parents and kids are recognizing the ROI on going to schools like this so they can play sports isn't worth it.
Last year, I read about a student-athlete who went to a school called Alderson Broaddus to compete in tumbling,g and it closed. She transferred to Notre Dame of Ohio and it closed the following year. This is just the beginning of the college herd being thinned out.
I would guess that a lot of these schools' boards and administrators knew they were headed nowhere a couple of years before they eventually closed. And really all that does is screw the students over. I mean, it's late April!
Sultan, recently have been to Ripon and Carthage for track meets. Their facilities (for all sports) are fantastic. I have also been to UW-Whitewater, which is kind of a dump (comparitively). How does this math work?
What's the ROI for Ripon? Are that many kids supposedly going to pay to play D3?
Quote from: The Sultan on April 30, 2025, 08:38:38 AMI would guess that a lot of these schools' boards and administrators knew they were headed nowhere a couple of years before they eventually closed. And really all that does is screw the students over. I mean, it's late April!
Less institutes of higher learning will be fine with all the factories that will be opening in the next decade. Will still be plenty of opportunities for future generations
Last year, Birmingham Southern made news with their baseball team advancing to the D3 CWS after the school shut down. Limestone's men's LAX team is #2 in the nation in D2. This could be a fun story in the next few weeks if they can make a run.
Quote from: The Lens on April 30, 2025, 09:01:44 AMSultan, recently have been to Ripon and Carthage for track meets. Their facilities (for all sports) are fantastic. I have also been to UW-Whitewater, which is kind of a dump (comparitively). How does this math work?
What's the ROI for Ripon? Are that many kids supposedly going to pay to play D3?
Well, first, I am largely talking about private schools. UW-Whitewater has the benefit of being a public institution, levying student fees, and using the borrowing power of the University System. And they are going to have a naturally larger recruiting pool because its less expensive to go there. IOW, their facilities don't necessarily need to stack up.
For a school like Ripon, the math is that if you can recruit more student-athletes, who hypotethically wouldn't attend otherwise, you can just do back of the envelope calculations to determine how profitable that might be. But the problem is that you often have to discount more than you think to get those students because, no, there aren't as many students wanting to play D3 as many of these places think.
I know they just built that new football stadium, I know it wasn't 100% donor funded, and I know they have over $35 million in debt and have to pay about $1.2 million in interest on a $50 million budget. That is a higher debt-load and interest payments than schools I have worked with budgets 2-3x Ripon's.
Now I have no idea if they are in any sort of precarious financial postion. Schools like Limestone and St. Andrew's are way worse off. But they have gone all in on athletics - I hope it works for them but I guess we will see in the next 10-15 years.
Ive always been sort of fascinated by the draw of the kind of schools we are talking about, the uber small private colleges.
Between friends and family and now work associates, Ive known people that have went to all sorts of schools, but Ive never known someone that went to one of the private college/universities with under 1000 kids, with the exception of a family friend who went to Ripon. And as to the earlier point, he played basketball at Ripon and the facilities/focus on athletics ended up overriding the size of the school, which was a big negative. It was basically half the size of his HS, and he didn't go to a massive HS.
Quote from: JWags85 on April 30, 2025, 11:51:05 AMIve always been sort of fascinated by the draw of the kind of schools we are talking about, the uber small private colleges.
Between friends and family and now work associates, Ive known people that have went to all sorts of schools, but Ive never known someone that went to one of the private college/universities with under 1000 kids, with the exception of a family friend who went to Ripon. And as to the earlier point, he played basketball at Ripon and the facilities/focus on athletics ended up overriding the size of the school, which was a big negative. It was basically half the size of his HS, and he didn't go to a massive HS.
My daughter went to Lawrence, approx enrollment 1500 then and now. And yes, that she could play basketball there was part of the allure. I thought she received an excellent education and, more importantly, grew up to become a productive contributor to society.
She did not want to go to a major university, or even a medium-sized college. She wanted a more personal experience, and in the end she felt the mission was accomplished.
Lawrence sure seemed like a well-run university that was in good financial shape back then, and I hope that's still the case. Websites list their endowment at $440 million; I hope that's considered "good."
I still receive requests for donations from them, but I always forward them to my daughter. My wife and I gave Lawrence more than enough $$$ - as well as the honor of having a bright young woman at their institution for four years. When we donate to a university now, it's our own alma mater!
Quote from: JWags85 on April 30, 2025, 11:51:05 AMIve always been sort of fascinated by the draw of the kind of schools we are talking about, the uber small private colleges.
Between friends and family and now work associates, Ive known people that have went to all sorts of schools, but Ive never known someone that went to one of the private college/universities with under 1000 kids, with the exception of a family friend who went to Ripon. And as to the earlier point, he played basketball at Ripon and the facilities/focus on athletics ended up overriding the size of the school, which was a big negative. It was basically half the size of his HS, and he didn't go to a massive HS.
The student profile of Lawrence is going to be pretty different than that of Ripon. Lawrence is a top 40 liberal arts college that draws academic achieving students from around the country. They probably compete with a number of similar schools (Kalamazoo, DePauw) as well as a public flagships.
Ripon would be more local / regional, and their student body is going to be more in line with a regional comprehensive public, but who seek the smaller size and/or the ability to continue as an athlete.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 30, 2025, 07:54:36 AMRural, poorly endowed (St. Andrews had an endowment of $12 million...yikes), and small. Common theme for a lot of these.
Sounds like teenage me.
Quote from: MU82 on April 30, 2025, 12:27:09 PMMy daughter went to Lawrence, approx enrollment 1500 then and now. And yes, that she could play basketball there was part of the allure. I thought she received an excellent education and, more importantly, grew up to become a productive contributor to society.
She did not want to go to a major university, or even a medium-sized college. She wanted a more personal experience, and in the end she felt the mission was accomplished.
Totally fair. I always thought Lawrence was a bit bigger (like 2500 ish), but still bigger than the schools I was thinking of. Additionally, not that Appleton is a metropolis, but its still a decent sized city right that Lawrence is in the center of. I have a cousin that went to Macalester which is similar in size but also very much an urban campus. Also a highly regarded school with a national profile like Lawrence.
And not to be moving goalposts, but 1500 to me is still a BIG difference to 800-900ish for example. I was thinking more these sub-1000 student schools not in an urban area at all.
Thanks for the responses, Sultan and Wags.
My daughter's final three choices were Lawrence, Grinnell and Carleton. The latter two are slightly larger than Lawrence and I think get rated higher by most of those who rate these things.
She chose Lawrence largely because it was closer to home (Chicago). They also gave her a better financial aid package, and she clicked with the basketball coach. And yes, she liked that, compared to Grinnell, Iowa, and Northfield, Minn., Appleton was practically a metropolis.
In retrospect, she's got no complaints, and neither do I.
Quote from: The Sultan on April 30, 2025, 11:41:30 AMWell, first, I am largely talking about private schools. UW-Whitewater has the benefit of being a public institution, levying student fees, and using the borrowing power of the University System. And they are going to have a naturally larger recruiting pool because its less expensive to go there. IOW, their facilities don't necessarily need to stack up.
For a school like Ripon, the math is that if you can recruit more student-athletes, who hypotethically wouldn't attend otherwise, you can just do back of the envelope calculations to determine how profitable that might be. But the problem is that you often have to discount more than you think to get those students because, no, there aren't as many students wanting to play D3 as many of these places think.
I know they just built that new football stadium, I know it wasn't 100% donor funded, and I know they have over $35 million in debt and have to pay about $1.2 million in interest on a $50 million budget. That is a higher debt-load and interest payments than schools I have worked with budgets 2-3x Ripon's.
Now I have no idea if they are in any sort of precarious financial postion. Schools like Limestone and St. Andrew's are way worse off. But they have gone all in on athletics - I hope it works for them but I guess we will see in the next 10-15 years.
My point in including UWW was that their facilities are poor despite lower tuition so you'd think they could recruit easier bc it's easier to convince a kid to pay $10K to play D3 rather than $30K.
I'm fascinated by the Ripon model. How many of these kids are paying anywhere close to retail for the privilege of playing for Ripon? Ripon & Carthage have BEAUTIFUL facilities. It makes no (financial) sense to me.
Quote from: The Lens on April 30, 2025, 10:28:31 PMMy point in including UWW was that their facilities are poor despite lower tuition so you'd think they could recruit easier bc it's easier to convince a kid to pay $10K to play D3 rather than $30K.
Oh I agree with you. That's why WIAC schools are almost always better than the various private school conferences in Wisconsin. They are recruiting the better athletes because of the price point. Whitewater's facilities aren't great, but they are certainly good enough.
Quote from: The Lens on April 30, 2025, 10:28:31 PMI'm fascinated by the Ripon model. How many of these kids are paying anywhere close to retail for the privilege of playing for Ripon? Ripon & Carthage have BEAUTIFUL facilities. It makes no (financial) sense to me.
Hardly anyone is paying full freight and that's the problem. The economic model requires a certain level of tuition, and my *guess* is that it is very hard for them to reach that level. (At least at Ripon - I have no idea about Carthage which benefits from a MUCH better location.)