The two things that stood out to me in Norlander's article about Shaka (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/march-madness-2023-ranking-every-ncaa-tournament-first-round-game-from-no-1-to-32/) were ...
The headline:
A perfect pairing: How Shaka Smart quickly changed the trajectory of Marquette and the Big East
And the final sentence:
The most exciting part for the program and its fan base: This is only Phase 1 of what might be a perfect pairing that lasts a decade or more.
Last season I started a topic saying that maybe, just maybe, Marquette could be The Next Nova. I didn't say it was imminent, and I didn't say we'd be able to replicate everything Nova did (such as win 2 natties in 3 years). What I said was that our alma mater has the resources, the commitment and the coach to be the standardbearers in the Big East and an annual name on the national stage.
What I was really doing was asking: If Villanova could do it, "Why not Marquette?"
I got some pushback, and that's OK, because the whole thing was meant to be a conversation starter. Scoopers I respect said that Marquette hadn't done anything to even be mentioned in the same breath as Villanova, and that it was unrealistic to think Smart could come close to Wright's accomplishments. Reasonable takes, because Wright was that good and had built so strong a program, while Shaka had proven nothing yet at Marquette (or at his only other P6 stop before that). Of course, less reasonable Scoopers screamed that Marquette was closer to being DePaul. (But hey, ignorant mopes are gonna be ignorant mopes.)
Ten years ago, Nova capped a three-year run that included no NCAA tournament wins and finishes of 9th, 13th and 7th in the Big East; while Marquette capped a three-year run of second-weekend advances with a BEast title and Elite Eight appearance. There undoubtedly were NovaScoopers wondering why their team couldn't be as accomplished as Marquette. The point of this paragraph isn't to claim that what happened 10 years ago has a single damn thing to do with what's happening now; it's to illustrate that nothing is guaranteed or forever and that change is constant.
Anyhoo, we all know what happened after 2013: Jay did Jay things, Buzz did Buzz things, and Wojo did Wojo things ... and soon enough, we were light years away from being Nova.
Well, Jay ain't walking back through that door, and Shaka's gonna be at Marquette for awhile, and we're the best team in the Big East, and Nova lost in the NIT, and we have a good chance to have a long NCAA tournament run. And barring a bunch of defections, we'll be running the whole thing back next season.
Obviously, we need to accomplish something in the NCAA tournament to really take The Next Nova step. But I still maintain that with the coach and framework we have in place, we can be to the Big East what Nova was for most of a decade. And FWIW, Norlander seems to be saying it, too.
Let's see if this NCAA tournament is when the needle really gets moving.
We Are Marquette!
Excellent post, MU82.
82
I hope everyone on scoop always believed we could be the next Nova. There is not any doubt in my mind can be the next Nova. Winning NC's is not easy, but that is hard to predict or promise, but being the top team in the BE for an extended period of time is definitely attainable, imo.
If I did not think that was possible I never would have been so hard on the program during the previous seven years. IMO, the goal has always been to be elite and it looks like they are trending the right direction.
I have no idea whether or not MU can become the dominant team in the BE. That's a tall order given that UConn, X, etc are all trying to do the same thing. But, what I do know is that MU has the right coach in place to make it happen if it van be done. Whether they become the dominant team in th conference or not, they will certainly be a strong contender in the BE as long as Shaka is there.
I'd rather be the next version of Marquette. Plus I'm tainted from becoming the next Nova after everyone here told me Wojo was following Jay's path to a T.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 15, 2023, 11:45:18 AM
I'd rather be the next version of Marquette. Plus I'm tainted from becoming the next Nova after everyone here told me Wojo was following Jay's path to a T.
If Wojo was following Jay's plan he clearly didn't read it properly.
Let's win our first NCAA tournament game in a decade.
Jay Wright's retirement came at the perfect time for Marquette. He was a stud coach and it would've been hard for any program to pass Nova while he was at the helm. Fortunately, Nova may have made a bad hire (though it's still too early to determine that) and Marquette has a chance to take the spot as top dog in the conference.
I do wonder what's in store for Nova. They've been the class of the new Big East since its inception, but with the ascension of MU, UCONN, and Xavier, and the possible hiring of Pitino at St. John's, they could be in danger of becoming a middle of the pack team if they're not careful. They've always been a solid basketball school, but their recent success can be attributed almost solely to who their coach was and not some longstanding tradition as a blue blood.
I'd also like to add: Nova and Wright gave the Big East a ton of credibility and basically saved the conference's bacon when Marquette and Georgetown crapped the bed over the last decade.
I've always believed that Marquette could become the next Nova, (or the next Duke, for that matter), but I wasn't confident that we'd be able to find the right coach to get us there. Now I believe that the stars have finally once again aligned and it's starting to happen.
Quote from: BLWarrior91 on March 15, 2023, 12:04:46 PM
If Wojo was following Jay's plan he clearly didn't read it properly.
(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/hard-work-task-assembly-new-furniture-upset-confused-millennial-guy-holding-head-reading-instructions-freaking-out-211487061.jpg)
Jay Wright was 34-14 in the NCAA tournament in the 20 years he was at Nova with four final 4s and two titles. I get the basis of the post but Wright is a once in a lifetime coach.
Quote from: Goose on March 15, 2023, 11:22:03 AM
82
I hope everyone on scoop always believed we could be the next Nova. There is not any doubt in my mind can be the next Nova. Winning NC's is not easy, but that is hard to predict or promise, but being the top team in the BE for an extended period of time is definitely attainable, imo.
If I did not think that was possible I never would have been so hard on the program during the previous seven years. IMO, the goal has always been to be elite and it looks like they are trending the right direction.
Absolutely. I have been saying for years that there is no excuse for MU's performance over the last 8 or so years. They have first rate facilities, an excellent conference and good resources. Just a lack of the right leader. There were plenty on this board offering up excuses under the Wojo regime and why we should have lower expectations, including accepting that Wojo was the guy.
Win Game 1.
That's the first step.
I don't know much about MU gaining NOVA success. I do know that my life mantra has become "Win anyway!" That attitude can take a person and a program a long way.
Sadly, most don't remember that Nova achieved Marquette level success.
Let's win on Friday... AND Sunday...
And go from there !
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 15, 2023, 01:45:59 PM
Sadly, most don't remember that Nova achieved Marquette level success.
Teal? From 2009-22 they blew Al's best years out of the water. I know it's blasphemy but 2 FF + 2 titles is much better than 1 RU + 1 title
Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 15, 2023, 03:20:37 PM
Teal? From 2009-22 they blew Al's best years out of the water. I know it's blasphemy but 2 FF + 2 titles is much better than 1 RU + 1 title
You do know that MU won the NIT (which was as prestigious back then as the racist and stodgy elite NCAA), beating Pistol Pete and Dr. J. Finished 2nd in 1967 in the aforementioned NIT thread. Was the 2nd highest ranked team for a decade only behind UCLA.
So, yeah MU two national championships and two national runners up games under Al.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 15, 2023, 03:49:43 PM
You do know that MU won the NIT (which was as prestigious back then as the racist and stodgy elite NCAA), beating Pistol Pete and Dr. J. Finished 2nd in 1967 in the aforementioned NIT thread. Was the 2nd highest ranked team for a decade only behind UCLA.
So, yeah MU two national championships and two national runners up games under Al.
This has been debunked by comparing records and rankings of the two fields. A very prestigious tournament sure, just as prestigious? Nope. If it was just as prestigious why'd we get invited at unranked 14-8 but not the NCAA? why'd we stop going after losing to SIU and improving our regular season win percentages? Why was the field in 1970 filled with more unranked teams with more losses?
Yay we had rankings, Nova did that and has way more hardware for 13yrs.
Well, until we start having respectable runs in the NCAA over the next few seasons; then we can start comparing us to the success Nova has had.
Winning the Conference is a good start so far.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 15, 2023, 04:04:43 PM
This has been debunked by comparing records and rankings of the two fields. A very prestigious tournament sure, just as prestigious? Nope. If it was just as prestigious why'd we get invited at unranked 14-8 but not the NCAA? why'd we stop going after losing to SIU and improving our regular season win percentages? Why was the field in 1970 filled with more unranked teams with more losses?
Yay we had rankings, Nova did that and has way more hardware for 13yrs.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 15, 2023, 04:04:43 PM
This has been debunked by comparing records and rankings of the two fields. A very prestigious tournament sure, just as prestigious? Nope. If it was just as prestigious why'd we get invited at unranked 14-8 but not the NCAA? why'd we stop going after losing to SIU and improving our regular season win percentages? Why was the field in 1970 filled with more unranked teams with more losses?
Yay we had rankings, Nova did that and has way more hardware for 13yrs.
Find a 10 year span where Nova was ranked in the final poll at
14,6,2,7,5,3,11,2,1,8
Quote from: lawdog77 on March 15, 2023, 06:09:29 PM
Find a 10 year span where Nova was ranked in the final poll at
14,6,2,7,5,3,11,2,1,8
Rather have multiple championships.
Quote from: lawdog77 on March 15, 2023, 06:09:29 PM
Find a 10 year span where Nova was ranked in the final poll at
14,6,2,7,5,3,11,2,1,8
This isn't about rankings. If it was Wojo should be getting a heck of a lot more credit for 2019 & 2020.
For better or worse March success rules CBB, Jay Wrights March success was objectively better than us under Al.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 15, 2023, 06:22:22 PM
Rather have multiple championships.
who wouldnt., but Galway said Nova had our rankings. Our overall record blew them put of the water
Quote from: lawdog77 on March 15, 2023, 07:46:25 PM
who wouldnt., but Galway said Nova had our rankings. Our overall record blew them put of the water
I didn't literally mean they matched our rankings but in a deeper talent pool and considerably more teams I'd argue they matched ours for all intents and purposes.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 15, 2023, 07:54:49 PM
I didn't literally mean they matched our rankings but in a deeper talent pool and considerably more teams I'd argue they matched ours for all intents and purposes.
Yes. That would make them have Marquette level success, correct? :D
Quote from: lawdog77 on March 15, 2023, 07:59:29 PM
Yes. That would make them have Marquette level success, correct? :D
1) no it would mean they surpassed it.
2) Are you saying that if you had the option of those rankings or being 2-4 spots lower but with more final fours & championships, you'd pick the rankings? I invite you to hang the #6 banner that VCU hung
To be the next Nova we need Shaka to enough to stay at MU for a longtime.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 15, 2023, 08:38:20 PM
1) no it would mean they surpassed it.
2) Are you saying that if you had the option of those rankings or being 2-4 spots lower but with more final fours & championships, you'd pick the rankings? I invite you to hang the #6 banner that VCU hung
Nova's 2013-4 through 2017-8 years are amazing, high rankings and tourney success. Those overall records were what MU was doing in the early to mid 70's.
Dr. Blackheart can speak for himself, but what I make up about his comment is that people seem to forget how dominant Marquette was.
Quote from: lawdog77 on March 15, 2023, 08:51:51 PM
Nova's 2013-4 through 2017-8 years are amazing, high rankings and tourney success. Those overall records were what MU was doing in the early to mid 70's.
Dr. Blackheart can speak for himself, but what I make up about his comment is that people seem to forget how dominant Marquette was.
Yeah we had some great records, but without the hardware we don't even get mentioned in the next tier after blue bloods hence my point about march.
Yes people do, agree 100% but nova got it done when it counted 4x that lead them to being counted in that "next tier" under blue bloods forever. We did not, we got too heated vs NC st, told our best player to leave during our best shot, got a crap draw vs IU, and snubbed the better tournament. Saying nova "achieved MU success" is disingenuous to the success we should actually strive to be.
Quote from: lawdog77 on March 15, 2023, 08:51:51 PM
Nova's 2013-4 through 2017-8 years are amazing, high rankings and tourney success. Those overall records were what MU was doing in the early to mid 70's.
Dr. Blackheart can speak for himself, but what I make up about his comment is that people seem to forget how dominant Marquette was.
Exactly. The topic is aspirations. Jay Wright's Nova aspired to be Al's Marquette. In fact, Al made Ray, Digger, Rollie, Dickie, etc.
Nova had various stretches under Wright:
Years 1-3 - Didn't make the tournament. (Marquette went to the FF during this stretch.)
Years 4-9 - 1 FF, 1 E8, 2 S16, 1 BE title, 2 top-3 finishes, NCAAT every year. (Marquette was decent during this stretch.)
Years 10-12 - No NCAAT wins, BE finishes of 9th, 13th, 7th. (Marquette was going S16-S16-E8 during this stretch - we were the better team, and it wasn't close.)
Years 13-21 - 2 NCAA titles, another FF, another S16, 7 BE titles and 2nd place other 2 years. (Marquette was anywhere from dumpster fire to OK during this stretch, with 0 NCAAT wins.)
So even under Wright, things were cyclical - though his down cycles were brief. Marquette's successful cycles were brief and our dumpster fire lasted too damn long.
Hey, it's unlikely that any Big East team will have a 9-year stretch as good as Wright's was in his final 9 seasons at Villanova. I think we can all agree on that. But 1 or 2 teams will emerge as the Big East standardbears, teams people put in the national conversation year in and year out.
And again I ask, "Why not Marquette?"
It is just me or is it a little odd that Coach Wright abruptly retired at the end of last season but is in this studio right away this year without taking some time away?
I get that it's a completely different gig, and sometimes it's just hard to stay away, it just caught me by surprise.
I don't think it's odd. Why not make a few easy bucks to comment on a subject where you're an expert.
Galway Eagle
With the exception of UCLA, no team won more games in the 70s than the Marquette Warriors.
Two Final Fours and a NC. That set the bar very high. Villanova exceeded it but don't dismiss the level of excellence we had achieved.
Quote from: DoctorV on March 15, 2023, 10:59:22 PM
It is just me or is it a little odd that Coach Wright abruptly retired at the end of last season but is in this studio right away this year without taking some time away?
I get that it's a completely different gig, and sometimes it's just hard to stay away, it just caught me by surprise.
He's in the studio and I also saw him in a commercial last night during one of the play-in games. Between his cushy tv gig and endorsements and possibly speaking engagements, I'd bet he's making as much if not more dough than he did as a coach while dealing with way less stress and having more time for family.
I do think Wright will coach again, either in the NBA or at a blue blood that throws $8 million per year at him.
It doesn't surprise me at all that Wright retired and is happy getting stress-free bucks while staying involved in basketball.
Plenty of people thought that McGuire would coach again, too. And Bill Cowher. And Jeff Van Gundy. And any of us could name several others who were/are younger than Wright and decided they liked their cushy, big-money broadcasting gig.
Could Wright return? I seriously doubt he'd go back to college, but maybe some NBA team would throw so much money at him that he'd want to give it a try. But that hasn't gotten Van Gundy back in the league, so who knows?
Jay Wright is richer than rich, he is secure in his legacy as an all-time great basketball coach, and he now has time to pursue other interests that he probably put off for decades. That's a pretty sweet combination.
Quote from: BLWarrior91 on March 16, 2023, 07:56:01 AM
Galway Eagle
With the exception of UCLA, no team won more games in the 70s than the Marquette Warriors.
Two Final Fours and a NC. That set the bar very high. Villanova exceeded it but don't dismiss the level of excellence we had achieved.
Didn't dismiss, only gave the credit to Nova that was due. If it came off dismissive I apologize, I was simply arguing that it's dismissive of Novas success under Jay to say it only met ours.