I put this in the TK thread, but thought it warranted its own.
TK was just named to the Oscar Robertson POY Watchlist (https://gomarquette.com/news/2023/3/2/mens-basketball-kolek-named-to-oscar-robertson-poy-late-season-watch-list?fbclid=IwAR1WmQdwuhMgzfkBbB83ySxXYM2zgFIImVwNBy2HmZPzvRh69_hiblXuR_A).
Congrats, TK. Well-deserved.
Others on the list:
- F/C Armando Bacot, North Carolina
- G Antoine Davis, Detroit Mercy
- G Kendric Davis, Memphis
- C Zach Edey, Purdue
- F Trayce Jackson-Davis, Indiana
- G/F Jaime Jaquez Jr., UCLA
- F Brandon Miller, Alabama
- F Kris Murray, Iowa
- G Jalen Pickett, Penn State
- G Marcus Sasser, Houston
- F Drew Timme, Gonzaga
- F Oscar Tshiebwe, Kentucky
- F Azuolas Tubelis, Arizona
- F Jalen Wilson, Kansas
I doubt Brandon Miller gets many votes.
Quote from: tower912 on March 02, 2023, 01:17:59 PM
I doubt Brandon Miller gets many votes.
Don't count him out, I think he's got a shot. :-X
Interesting. Only BE finalist.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on March 02, 2023, 01:19:03 PM
Don't count him out, I think he's got a shot. :-X
Bwahahaha
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 02, 2023, 01:19:32 PM
Interesting. Only BE finalist.
(https://media.tenor.com/IK-w3glUT8sAAAAC/im-picking-up-what-youre-putting-down-reveal.gif)
Media availability
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au-_KtR9UWg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au-_KtR9UWg)
He leaked some info on the LUC secret scrimmage
Only 5 guards, including TK on the list.
Bodes well for AA honors.
Quote from: Jockey on March 02, 2023, 02:32:09 PM
Only 5 guards, including TK on the list.
Bodes well for AA honors.
Was just in a text chain with some buddies and we concluded the same. You were an early passenger on that train, Jockey - well done.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 02, 2023, 01:17:13 PM
I put this in the TK thread, but thought it warranted its own.
TK was just named to the Oscar Robertson POY Watchlist (https://gomarquette.com/news/2023/3/2/mens-basketball-kolek-named-to-oscar-robertson-poy-late-season-watch-list?fbclid=IwAR1WmQdwuhMgzfkBbB83ySxXYM2zgFIImVwNBy2HmZPzvRh69_hiblXuR_A).
Congrats, TK. Well-deserved.
Others on the list:
- F/C Armando Bacot, North Carolina
- G Antoine Davis, Detroit Mercy
- G Kendric Davis, Memphis
- C Zach Edey, Purdue
- F Trayce Jackson-Davis, Indiana
- G/F Jaime Jaquez Jr., UCLA
- F Brandon Miller, Alabama
- F Kris Murray, Iowa
- G Jalen Pickett, Penn State
- G Marcus Sasser, Houston
- F Drew Timme, Gonzaga
- F Oscar Tshiebwe, Kentucky
- F Azuolas Tubelis, Arizona
- F Jalen Wilson, Kansas
Is this Basketball's equivalent of the Heisman Trophy?
Quote from: Hards Alumni on March 02, 2023, 01:19:03 PM
Don't count him out, I think he's got a shot. :-X
I wouldn't vote for him if you put a gun to my head.
Shaka just shared at Dave and Busters that last year after losing to UCLA fans were grilling Tyler online and wondering if he belonged at this level and he found Tyler on the bathroom floor crying.
To see him as the Big East PoY is that much sweeter.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on March 02, 2023, 01:19:03 PM
Don't count him out, I think he's got a shot. :-X
We have a winner!
Quote from: Hards Alumni on March 02, 2023, 01:19:03 PM
Don't count him out, I think he's got a shot. :-X
What's holding him back is he won't take the shot, always passes it off to someone.
(Feels too on the nose but thought "why not?")
tyler came out focused and with a BIG chip on his shoulder. he's letting his play speak for itself but i'd love to hear him mic'd up for a few games. he's got that edge Al would've loved, but not sure if he has grass in his front yard
Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 02, 2023, 06:48:43 PM
tyler came out focused and with a BIG chip on his shoulder.
If only it were that simple. Tyler worked his arse off all offseason, improving on things that he absolutely needed to get better at if we were going to take the next step as a program.
We needed a PG who could make an opponent pay for going under screens. We needed a PG who could make little pull-up shots and hard drives all the way to the rim. We needed a PG with much better than a 2/1 A/TO ratio. We needed a PG who at least occasionally went right. We needed better PG play, period -- he knew it and Shaka knew it -- and Tyler rose to the challenge.
Sure, attitude matters. But the chip on the shoulder wouldn't have meant diddly if Kolek was still playing at last season's skill level. We wouldn't be Big East champs if he didn't become twice the player he was. We are fortunate that we have several players who worked incredibly hard to get significantly better, and he's the leader of that pack.
Good for TK, good for Marquette!
82
Everything you say is correct, but I would not underestimate the chip on his shoulder. A lot of guys claim to live life with a chip on their shoulder, but I find many like to talk about it and Kolek lives it. It took me about thirty seconds on watching his George Mason highlights to see that he had a serious edge about him. Call it a chip on the shoulder or an edge about him, but that is a big part of what makes him tick, imo.
Quote from: Goose on March 02, 2023, 07:16:01 PM
82
Everything you say is correct, but I would not underestimate the chip on his shoulder. A lot of guys claim to live life with a chip on their shoulder, but I find many like to talk about it and Kolek lives it. It took me about thirty seconds on watching his George Mason highlights to see that he had a serious edge about him. Call it a chip on the shoulder or an edge about him, but that is a big part of what makes him tick, imo.
I like guys who play with a chip on their shoulder as much as the next fan. But nobody talks about the guys who have a chip on their shoulder but simply aren't good enough to capitalize on it.
I mean, I bet Derrick Wilson had a giant chip on his shoulder going into his senior season after having been criticized a lot as a junior ... but that, and a ton of playing time, still didn't help him help Marquette win diddly.
I love Tyler's attitude, Goose, and I don't doubt that it's a big part of what makes him tick. But if he still wasn't able to hit jumpers or finish around the rim, and if he didn't up his A/TO ratio to 3/1, I don't know how much the chip would matter.
It's all part of his total package, and I'll take the talent/improvement as the most important factor every time. Not that we can separate them; as I said, it's the total package. He's turned himself into a heck of a basketball player, that's for sure.
I thought everybody would improve some, and that's why I thought we'd do a lot better than BEast coaches predicted and would make the NCAAs this season. But I'd be lying if I said I expected Tyler and Oso to improve as much as they have.
82
I think we are in agreement. I thought your post was completely accurate and I just added I think he really does have a chip on his shoulder. That description and being a competitor are my two big pet peeves in sports. Anyone that fits those descriptions do so my their dna and not talked about when they describe themselves as a rule, imo. MJ had both and everyone else knew it and that scared them. Guys like Aaron Rodgers are obsessed with telling everyone they got it and scare no one. I think Kolek has both traits in his dna.
I am not comparing Kolek to MJ in any way other than possibly being wired in similar way. That said, other than Tiger, no one is wired like MJ.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on March 02, 2023, 06:22:34 PM
Shaka just shared at Dave and Busters that last year after losing to UCLA fans were grilling Tyler online and wondering if he belonged at this level and he found Tyler on the bathroom floor crying.
To see him as the Big East PoY is that much sweeter.
Man I hope TK is okay with him sharing that. That's a raw moment. Can't be easy being in the public eye in the age of the internet.
So, If Kolek is the only BE player on the list for national POY, is he not then, de facto, the POY for the BE?
I also think we're mostly in agreement, Goose.
We Are Marquette!
David Borges: Our selections for inaugural Associated Press Big East men's basketball awards
David Borges
March 2, 2023
https://www.ctinsider.com/sports/uconn-mens-basketball/article/big-east-awards-ap-17815895.php
For the first time, the Associated Press will be releasing All-Big East men's basketball teams, as well as individual honors this season, and we're happy to be one of the voters.
A group of 11 media members, one from each Big East outpost, will select five-man first and second teams, along with Player of the Year, Coach of the Year and Newcomer of the Year. The results will be released on Tuesday.
This is separate from the Big East's own all-league and individual honors selections, which are chosen by the league's coaches and announced on different days next week. We're guessing there will be some differences between the AP writers' and coaches' decisions, especially since the latter often don't involve perhaps as much introspection. Coaches do have bigger things going on at this time of the season.
It's always a fun process choosing such awards, but it was particularly difficult this season. For one, the league is bristling with talented players, several of whom will someday be playing in the NBA, some as early as next season. Determining Player of the Year was extremely tough, as was limiting just five players to each team.
Then there was the Newcomer of the Year conundrum. The definition for the award specifically states the following: Doesn't necessarily have to be a freshman. It can be any player, regardless of class, in his first season playing for a Big East team.
A Freshman of the Year category may be added next year. But for this year, the winner from the Big East (and, in fact, the five other "power" conferences) does not have to be a freshman.
We decided to limit the scope to freshmen. Otherwise, the runaway winner would be either Providence's Bryce Hopkins or Xavier's Souley Boum, who transferred to the league this season from Kentucky and UTEP, respectively. Both are strong candidates for Player of the Year and easy picks for first team All-Big East. We like the idea of the freshmen having their own award.
Two other conundrums: Which statistics to consider for these awards, and what to do with Xavier's Zach Freemantle. We decided to go with stats put up in conference play only. Non-conference competition vary too much among the league's teams. Everyone's on an even playing field with league-only stats.
As for Freemantle, he would have almost certainly been first team All-Big East before suffering a left foot injury that's kept him out of action for over a month and limited him to just 11 league games. That's not quite enough to merit inclusion (see: James Bouknight, 2021).
Here's the best we could do with our selections:
Player of the Year: Tyler Kolek, Marquette
We really struggled with this one. Up until Wednesday night, we were leaning towards Providence's Hopkins, who delivered one of the most dominant performances we witnessed first-hand this season, a 27-piece in a win over UConn on Jan. 4. He leads the Big East in scoring and is second and rebounding. He's real good.
But on Wednesday night, Hopkins went 4-for-11 from the field and couldn't prevent a home loss to Xavier. Obviously, one game doesn't make a difference, but we also can't get out of our mind the fact that he didn't grab a single rebound (zero, zip, nada) in a blowout loss at UConn last week. In fact, he's struggled a bit down the stretch, scoring just six points in 17 foul-plagued minutes in a win over Gerogetown over the weekend.
Kolek has come up biggest when Marquette has needed him the most. He scored 18 points and had two go-ahead baskets in the final minute to lead the Golden Eagles to a huge road win at Creighton last week. He doled out 24 assists over the past two games that clinched a tie for the regular-season title, then the outright title.
Stats? Kolek is second in the nation (and first among Power Six players) with 7.9 assists per game. He leads the Big East in assist/turnover ratio (3.3) and is tied atop the steals category (2.1). He's also averaging a team-best 14.9 ppg in league play while shooting 51.5-percent from the floor and 38.3-percent from 3, marked improvements over last season.
Xavier's Boum was given strong consideration, especially after dropping 33 on Providence Wednesday night. And UConn's Jordan Hawkins and Adama Sanogo merited consideration, as well.
But Tyler Kolek has been the best player on the league's best team. Dan Hurley called him the "best quarterback in the country." He's our Big East Player of the Year. (And it has nothing to do with the fact that he's a fellow native Rhode Islander!)
Coach of the Year: Shaka Smart, Marquette
With so many tough choices, this was an incredibly easy one. Marquette was picked to finish ninth in the league after losing a host of players (including leading scorer Justin Lewis). The Golden Eagles wind up winning their first outright Big East regular-season title. Smart is not only an easy choice for league Coach of the Year, he's a strong candidate for National Coach of the Year. In fact, we voted for him for that honor in another recent poll.
Newcomer of the Year: Alex Karaban
It was tough enough determining this should solely go to a freshman. But which freshman? Villanova's Cam Whitmore was named preseason Freshman of the Year. He's a potential NBA lottery pick in June, and he's probably got the best numbers among the league's frosh – 12.4 ppg, 5.4 rpg.
But we felt Karaban has a little more of an impact on his team: scoring (9.3), rebounding (4.6), 3-point shooting (39.1 percent) and reliability (29.7 minutes per game, second on the team in league play).
And consideration was given to his teammate, Donovan Clingan, who might have been the frontrunner had he played more than 12.3 minutes per game in league play. Despite that, he's fourth in the league in blocks (1.6) and tops among the league's freshmen in rebounding (5.4).
All-Big East teams
Our final conundrum: Do we put two UConn players on first team? The Huskies are likely to finish fifth in the league, though they still could finish fourth and even third. Either way, does that merit two first-team selections?
Under normal circumstances, no. But which of Hawkins and Sanogo, currently the league's third and fourth leading scorers, respectively, do we leave off? Hawkins, a likely first-round NBA draft pick in June who leads the Big East in free throw shooting (90.2 percent) is second in 3-pointers per game (2.7) and among the leaders in dynamic athleticism? Sanogo, the preseason Player of the Year pick by the coaches who's also fifth in the league in rebounding?
And who takes their place? Freemantle didn't play enough league games. Ryan Kalkbrenner is a choice, but he got housed by Sanogo in their two meetings this season. Joel Soriano is a double-double machine, but St. John's is in seventh place and going nowhere.
And so, we put Hawkins and Sanogo on first team. Call it rampant homerism if you must. We call it common sense.
FIRST TEAM
Tyler Kolek, Marquette
Bryce Hopkins, Providence
Souley Boum, Xavier
Jordan Hawkins, UConn
Adama Sanogo, UConn
SECOND TEAM
Joel Soriano, St. John's
Ryan Kalkbrenner, Creighton
Kam Jones, Marquette
Eric Dixon, Villanova
Colby Jones, Xavier
david.borges@hearstmediact.com @DaveBorges
Quote from: TrojanWarrior on March 02, 2023, 09:00:15 PM
So, If Kolek is the only BE player on the list for national POY, is he not then, de facto, the POY for the BE?
I don't believe it's the same voters. It is a nice data point though.
Love reading this thought process. Was pleasantly surprised to see Kam on second team. Nice to hear a vote for Shaka for National COY
Thanks for posting Borges' piece, MUFiC.
He has solid rationale for each of his choices. I could nitpick with a few -- including choosing a meh freshman over outstanding other "newcomers" when the voting clearly allows him to do the latter, and also not finding a spot for Oso (certainly over Dixon, and probably over Soriano) -- but even those he offered explanations for.
Quote from: MU82 on March 03, 2023, 09:45:01 AM
Thanks for posting Borges' piece, MUFiC.
He has solid rationale for each of his choices. I could nitpick with a few -- including choosing a meh freshman over outstanding other "newcomers" when the voting clearly allows him to do the latter, and also not finding a spot for Oso (certainly over Dixon, and probably over Soriano) -- but even those he offered explanations for.
This was amusing:
"Then there was the Newcomer of the Year conundrum. The definition for the award specifically states the following: Doesn't necessarily have to be a freshman. It can be any player, regardless of class, in his first season playing for a Big East team.
A Freshman of the Year category may be added next year. But for this year, the winner from the Big East (and, in fact, the five other "power" conferences) does not have to be a freshman.
We decided to limit the scope to freshmen. Otherwise, the runaway winner would be either Providence's Bryce Hopkins or Xavier's Souley Boum, who transferred to the league this season from Kentucky and UTEP, respectively. Both are strong candidates for Player of the Year and easy picks for first team All-Big East. We like the idea of the freshmen having their own award."Translation: "We didn't want someone from Xavier or Providence to win this award, so we chose to ignore the actual category and award in a different category that may be added in the future."
But, he does own their "rampant homerism" so I don't fault them too much. Any bets on how they'll interpret the award next year if they get a stud transfer who would be a "runaway winner" in the category?
Quote from: MU82 on March 02, 2023, 06:57:51 PM
If only it were that simple. Tyler worked his arse off all offseason, improving on things that he absolutely needed to get better at if we were going to take the next step as a program.
We needed a PG who could make an opponent pay for going under screens. We needed a PG who could make little pull-up shots and hard drives all the way to the rim. We needed a PG with much better than a 2/1 A/TO ratio. We needed a PG who at least occasionally went right. We needed better PG play, period -- he knew it and Shaka knew it -- and Tyler rose to the challenge.
Sure, attitude matters. But the chip on the shoulder wouldn't have meant diddly if Kolek was still playing at last season's skill level. We wouldn't be Big East champs if he didn't become twice the player he was. We are fortunate that we have several players who worked incredibly hard to get significantly better, and he's the leader of that pack.
Good for TK, good for Marquette!
Spot on. TK has united the team and united MU Scoopers. Ring Out Ahoya. Let's buckle our seatbelts and enjoy the March ride!
Quote from: MU82 on March 02, 2023, 02:34:42 PM
Was just in a text chain with some buddies and we concluded the same. You were an early passenger on that train, Jockey - well done.
I was not a Kolek guy at the start of the season. I will even admit that I hoped Sean Jones would come in and grab the PG position.
But TK won me over and he has earned any honors that he gets by the way he plays. I think Goose's attitude towards TK had an influence on me as well - made me take a more nuanced look at how he took control of the team and what he was doing on the court.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 03, 2023, 08:59:51 AM
FIRST TEAM
Tyler Kolek, Marquette
Bryce Hopkins, Providence
Souley Boum, Xavier
Jordan Hawkins, UConn
Adama Sanogo, UConn
SECOND TEAM
Joel Soriano, St. John's
Ryan Kalkbrenner, Creighton
Kam Jones, Marquette
Eric Dixon, Villanova
Colby Jones, Xavier
Thanks for this post, MUFC.
Funny thing is that the guy from the BE who will probably be the highest draft choice for the NBA isn't on either the 1st or 2nd team.
Hawkins could be the 1st, but I think it will be Whitmore.
Quote from: Jockey on March 03, 2023, 11:42:04 AM
I was not a Kolek guy at the start of the season. I will even admit that I hoped Sean Jones would come in and grab the PG position.
But TK won me over and he has earned any honors that he gets by the way he plays. I think Goose's attitude towards TK had an influence on me as well - made me take a more nuanced look at how he took control of the team and what he was doing on the court.
Kolek's in season improvement has been huge. He went from a solid starting PG to BEPOY. Before BE play, he was averaging about 9 points and 8 assists per game. In BE play, his scoring leapt to 15 ppg while maintaining his 8 apg!
He was already elite distributor, and now Tyler is an equally dangerous as a scorer. I doubted he would ever become this good of a scorer, but I am very happy to be wrong.
Will be interesting to see what the final vote totals are
f only it were that simple. Tyler worked his arse off all offseason, improving on things that he absolutely needed to get better at if we were going to take the next step as a program."
nothing to disagree with here 82 as you merely expounded on my premise. he recognized his weaknesses and he worked hard to excel and that is being recognized. i like the fact that despite his improvement from the outside, he let's that shot come to him as he does with most other aspects of his game. that is what is making him special
Quote from: Herman Cain on March 03, 2023, 01:22:54 PM
Will be interesting to see what the final vote totals are
...mail in ballots, won't know til August!
Quote from: Jockey on March 03, 2023, 11:42:04 AM
I was not a Kolek guy at the start of the season. I will even admit that I hoped Sean Jones would come in and grab the PG position.
But TK won me over and he has earned any honors that he gets by the way he plays. I think Goose's attitude towards TK had an influence on me as well - made me take a more nuanced look at how he took control of the team and what he was doing on the court.
In the video he said Oso and him play good cop bad cop. Unofficial team captains are they.
Bilas was the guest on Pardon the Interruption today. He named Marquette as a dangerous team, said our defense was better than it's rated, and called us a wonderful passing team. He said Shaka was a great coach and Kolek "might be the best point guard in the country."
He did point out that we aren't a very good rebounding team. Typical Marquette hate!
Quote from: MU82 on March 03, 2023, 11:30:05 PM
Bilas was the guest on Pardon the Interruption today. He named Marquette as a dangerous team, said our defense was better than it's rated, and called us a wonderful passing team. He said Shaka was a great coach and Kolek "might be the best point guard in the country."
He did point out that we aren't a very good rebounding team. Typical Marquette hate!
I yelled "Go Marquette" at some guy outside the steakhouse of my hotel tonight who was wearing a Marquette Jordan jacket. My wife informed me I was being weird as there was a player near him. Sorry Mr. Kolek (who I was informed she thought it was based on her earlier observations ) for yelling at you.
if Tyler off tomorrow it's my fault for harassing his dad (in theory)
Jake
Yell away. Not often that you can yell Go Marquette to an AA's Dad on the street.
Rothstein puts Kolek on his second team All-American list: https://collegehoopstoday.com/index.php/rothstein-files/purdues-zach-edey-is-college-hoops-todays-national-player-of-the-year/
Quote from: Ellenson Guerrero on March 04, 2023, 09:43:15 AM
Rothstein puts Kolek on his second team All-American list: https://collegehoopstoday.com/index.php/rothstein-files/purdues-zach-edey-is-college-hoops-todays-national-player-of-the-year/
I can't quibble with any of Rothstein's picks. I have seen very little K-State hoops, but just looking at the stats, if I were a K-State fan I might gripe that Nowell deserved to be a line above Kolek.
John Wooden was a cheat
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35781501/zach-edey-leads-wooden-finalists-brandon-miller-list (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35781501/zach-edey-leads-wooden-finalists-brandon-miller-list)
Quote from: lawdog77 on March 04, 2023, 11:49:34 AM
John Wooden was a cheat
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35781501/zach-edey-leads-wooden-finalists-brandon-miller-list (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35781501/zach-edey-leads-wooden-finalists-brandon-miller-list)
Armando Bacot best playering his way all the way to the NIT 1 seed