Something I noticed from watching the tapes of last night's game vs. Providence.
Marquette played a half court game much of the time and I asked myself why was that? They love to 3/4 court press and create "Havoc". And yet there wasn't nearly enough of that. And that is part of the strategy: to get fast breaks, speed up the game because your players are faster and quicker, and if you can sub in players you can wear the other team out. And you get more possessions. That helps your shooting percentage. Probably, it was knowing the Providence guards are strong ball handlers. You overreach just a little bit and they're gone.
I also think this was an experiment, and a learning experience. You can overwhelm a lesser opponent with your press, but when you get to big boy games, you better have a half-court offense. I know, I've seen it before. If you don't blow up the court on a break away dunk, things can go to crap if you can't play in a slow down game. If you can't do the fundamentals: pass, cut, set screens, pass the ball for someone with a better shot you're wasting your time. All those things you can do to frustrate your opponent are part of what it takes to win. That's how it works.
One last thing. I'm so glad the team doesn't do the weave half-court out around 22 feet. I really hate that. And MU doesn't do that. They set screens and Tyler makes smart passes. He's so OK.
Quote from: oilcan on January 19, 2023, 09:03:01 PM
Something I noticed from watching the tapes of last night's game vs. Providence.
Marquette played a half court game much of the time and I asked myself why was that? They love to 3/4 court press and create "Havoc". And yet there wasn't nearly enough of that. And that is part of the strategy: to get fast breaks, speed up the game because your players are faster and quicker, and if you can sub in players you can wear the other team out. And you get more possessions. That helps your shooting percentage. Probably, it was knowing the Providence guards are strong ball handlers. You overreach just a little bit and they're gone.
I also think this was an experiment, and a learning experience. You can overwhelm a lesser opponent with your press, but when you get to big boy games, you better have a half-court offense. I know, I've seen it before. If you don't blow up the court on a break away dunk, things can go to crap if you can't play in a slow down game. If you can't do the fundamentals: pass, cut, set screens, pass the ball for someone with a better shot you're wasting your time. All those things you can do to frustrate your opponent are part of what it takes to win. That's how it works.
One last thing. I'm so glad the team doesn't do the weave half-court out around 22 feet. I really hate that. And MU doesn't do that. They set screens and Tyler makes smart passes. He's so OK.
Excellent points oilcan. The weave and heave drove me up the wall.
I am of the opinion that MU was conserving energy. Did more trapping and double teaming in the half court instead.
Speculation only.
Oh yeah, you also have to box out and rebound. As my friend Brandon Bell, just reminded me. He was a freshmen pg on that team in 2002-2003. He wasn't at the festivities last night to celebrate the anniversary. He didn't get a special jacket with the number on his back. But he'll never forget the experiences he had. Crean telling him what to eat on the plane. Missing a game winning shot at the buzzer against Louisville. And have an entire arena chant "Charlie's better!!!" And then, there was the hard work. And that always pays off. And then Wes Matthews comes to town. Listen, it comes and goes and nobody knows what the future holds. Play hard. Play to win. Live to learn. And you can't go wrong.
I don't remember Brandon being on that team. I thought he was a freshman in 03-04.
Quote from: tower912 on January 19, 2023, 09:30:09 PM
I don't remember Brandon being on that team. I thought he was a freshman in 03-04.
https://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/brandon_bell
Yup. 2003 still in high school.
George Santos can really tell great stories of his time on that team.
Quote from: MU82 on January 19, 2023, 09:43:10 PM
George Santos can really tell great stories of his time on that team.
Why Mike, why?
🙄🙄🙄
I apologize. Sincerely. A terrible mistake on my part. If Brandon had been on that team he would have bragged about it. He didn't. I guess I just wanted it to be true. I should have checked with him first, before I did what I did.
Quote from: real chili 83 on January 19, 2023, 09:50:28 PM
Why Mike, why?
🙄🙄🙄
Why? Because it's funny. And because the guy claimed to be a star athlete.
Also, you do know there have been lots and lots of Santos references on Scoop over the last couple of weeks, and this was the first by me, right?
Quote from: oilcan on January 19, 2023, 10:13:43 PM
I apologize. Sincerely. A terrible mistake on my part. If Brandon had been on that team he would have bragged about it. He didn't. I guess I just wanted it to be true. I should have checked with him first, before I did what I did.
No worries oilcan. Everyone makes mistakes.
Quote from: MU82 on January 19, 2023, 10:14:12 PM
Why? Because it's funny. And because the guy claimed to be a star athlete.
Also, you do know there have been lots and lots of Santos references on Scoop over the last couple of weeks, and this was the first by me, right?
Mike, 🙄
Quote from: MU82 on January 19, 2023, 09:43:10 PM
George Santos can really tell great stories of his time on that team.
Normally, I would have a witty retort. But I shall keep my mouth shut out of respect for the stated rules of this site. Or should I say rules for thee and rules for me.
I learned a long time ago its usually the guy who throws the second punch that gets tossed out of the bar.
Oilcan
Great post on your overview of the game. All really good observations. I was thinking the same thing on the half court defense and thought it was done because of guys getting worn down. Three tough games in a week and maybe needed to slow things down.
Dribbler
Well worded reply to 82.
Quote from: oilcan on January 19, 2023, 09:03:01 PM
Something I noticed from watching the tapes of last night's game vs. Providence.
Marquette played a half court game much of the time and I asked myself why was that? They love to 3/4 court press and create "Havoc". And yet there wasn't nearly enough of that. And that is part of the strategy: to get fast breaks, speed up the game because your players are faster and quicker, and if you can sub in players you can wear the other team out. And you get more possessions. That helps your shooting percentage. Probably, it was knowing the Providence guards are strong ball handlers. You overreach just a little bit and they're gone.
I also think this was an experiment, and a learning experience. You can overwhelm a lesser opponent with your press, but when you get to big boy games, you better have a half-court offense. I know, I've seen it before. If you don't blow up the court on a break away dunk, things can go to crap if you can't play in a slow down game. If you can't do the fundamentals: pass, cut, set screens, pass the ball for someone with a better shot you're wasting your time. All those things you can do to frustrate your opponent are part of what it takes to win. That's how it works.
One last thing. I'm so glad the team doesn't do the weave half-court out around 22 feet. I really hate that. And MU doesn't do that. They set screens and Tyler makes smart passes. He's so OK.
Right about that stupid weave. MU got it right to dump Wojo and hire Shaka Kahn.
Not many of the Wojo settlers have stepped up and admitted that.
But the way that Shaka has handled things is what was needed
One last thing: Remember all the: "Wojo has us on the upward trajectory" defense comments.
Glad we have Shaka.
This thread is all over the place
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 20, 2023, 04:54:45 AM
This thread is all over the place
It's part of the Scoop beginner catalog
MU can't successfully press aggressively without putting Oso in a bad spot...need to protect his fouls.
Given much of the Providence offense is predicated on speeding up and searching for contact, I imagine this was a concerted effort by Shaka to avoid having to speed up and instead focus on keeping the Prov players in front of them.
Quote from: tower912 on January 19, 2023, 09:07:50 PM
I am of the opinion that MU was conserving energy.
I think you've hit on it, Tower. The guys looked gassed down the stretch in RI, not in MKE.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on January 20, 2023, 06:26:25 AM
I think you've hit on it, Tower. The guys looked gassed down the stretch in RI, not in MKE.
Did Crean take the oxygen chamber?
I think that not pressing was a smart move by Shaka to protect OSO but also because PC thrives on a certain level of chaos. Normally they create it, but by having the defense set on every PC posession, Shaka was able to create advantage because, man to man - when matched up properly, MU is better than PC. PC was unable to disrupt MU's D, get mismatches, and get guys left open. Therefore MU won.
The press works best when O-Max is at the front of it. His length and athleticism makes a huge difference. However, when he's at the front, there were several possessions where someone else had to pick up Hopkins because O-Max was not in position to do so, and Hopkins absolutely torched us. It became clear we could either press effectively or have O-Max guard Hopkins. I think Shaka made the right call, and Hopkins second half performance supports this.