MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on January 18, 2023, 10:16:14 PM

Title: Revenge is a grind
Post by: tower912 on January 18, 2023, 10:16:14 PM
1.  Hopkins played (boy, did he!), Bynum  not so much.  Just as predicted.   Abdominal strains linger.
2.  I  could talk about rebounding, but it has all been said before.   Croswell and Hopkins equal bully ball.   Achilles heel.
3.   Actual travels and an actual 3 second call.
4.   OMax wasn't great the whole game, but he certainly had his moments.
5.  Balanced scoring tonight.  Big fan.
6.  Oso in foul trouble.   Again.  Providence attacked him.   As they should.   Ben needs to play. 
7.   Kam had himself a half.  Might end that SOTG drought.
8.  We get caught up in the minutiae and self loathing.   Take a step back and breathe.  MU is the youngest team in the Big East.   They beat a ranked team.   It was hard work.   Why expect anything different?
9.  DePaul beat Xavier.   Seton Hall beat UConn.   Gird your loins for Saturday.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Goose on January 18, 2023, 10:18:17 PM
Highlight for me was seeing DWade rubbing elbows with Dick and Donna Strong. They could play a big role in keeping the band together next year.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: MU24 on January 18, 2023, 10:18:26 PM
Interesting how a game can look when one team doesnt take 49 FTs...
greaat W
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on January 18, 2023, 10:18:35 PM
PC made it interesting. MU needs to play more with the violence that Shaka preaches.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: DegenerateDish on January 18, 2023, 10:18:40 PM
Good teams win, great teams cover.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: CountryRoads on January 18, 2023, 10:18:44 PM
Big time win.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: MarquetteDano on January 18, 2023, 10:20:07 PM
Interesting how a game can look when one team doesnt take 49 FTs...
greaat W

Refs tried their best to get paid,  but no payment tonight.  Refs can call fouls but cannot shoot free throws for Providence.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: wadesworld on January 18, 2023, 10:20:11 PM
Not much to complain about. Rebounding an issue but make up for it with turnovers and fast breaks. Didn’t love fouling a bunch in the last couple minutes to stop the clock. But otherwise good game all around. Stevie took Carter totally out of the game. His only chance was to flop around. Crosswalk just throws his weight around. Dude plays football while everyone else plays basketball.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Tyler COLEk on January 18, 2023, 10:23:37 PM
Both teams played down to the broadcast network. Ugly game that results in MU beating a ranked conference opponent by eight. Two thumbs up.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: 5DollarPitcher on January 18, 2023, 10:24:09 PM
Shaka end of game was good today. Providence pushed, MU kicked them off the cliff.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on January 18, 2023, 10:24:12 PM
Providence makes it a brawl. They always do.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Ellenson Guerrero on January 18, 2023, 10:24:44 PM
O-Max has his moments on the glass. We really need that more often. Joplin can’t be on the floor the last two minutes of games.

Held serve at home. Shaka needs to play the UConn-SHU tape for the guys at least three times to avoid a let down Saturday.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: mugrad_89 on January 18, 2023, 10:24:49 PM
We had an answer every time Providence tried to make a run.  This is fun.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Ellenson Guerrero on January 18, 2023, 10:27:18 PM
Does 8 points count as a close win?
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: PointWarrior on January 18, 2023, 10:28:29 PM
Good win, especially since they could have played so much better.  Lots of upside when they are on. 
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Goose on January 18, 2023, 10:30:41 PM
It was a tough game and the offense was not overly sharp and they get an eight point win. That is progress. Sometimes you win tough games without your best stuff and that is what good teams do.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Judge Smails on January 18, 2023, 10:31:24 PM
A lot of poise down the stretch. Team has figured out how to close. Playing with so much confidence! 
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on January 18, 2023, 10:35:02 PM
I think Providence is the one team I don't want to face in the BET. So tough. Hopkins is a match up nightmare for us.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: muwarrior69 on January 18, 2023, 10:35:30 PM
Now that we won we'll drop out of the top 25.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: nyg on January 18, 2023, 10:37:47 PM
Oso wasn't in bad foul trouble, he got his two late in first and Shaka put him in for last offensive possession.

Ben Gold in Shaka doghouse, he hardly played at all, again. 

Omax had nothing, absolutely nothing in first 13 minutes.  Finished with 13 points, 3 rebounds 2 assists and one steal.  He also had two thunder dunks to get momentum.  Very nice comeback. 

Hopkins only had five second half points.  He sat one minute in first half and did to come out in second.  He had an ankle issue??????  I am sure he was either tired or ankle hurt him chasing Omax around. 

Need to continue beating BE teams at home, which is huge and they have come up with the wins.  MU has yet to play the three worst teams, so that's a possible six wins.  No letdowns, especially against a hot Seton Hall team.

Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on January 18, 2023, 10:38:12 PM
It was a tough game and the offense was not overly sharp and they get an eight point win. That is progress. Sometimes you win tough games without your best stuff and that is what good teams do.

Marquette shot 58% on 2s, 42% on 3s, and had just 9 turnovers.  We've become spoiled with how good this offense is.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Herman Cain on January 18, 2023, 10:38:25 PM
My favorite games of the year are when we play Cooley & Company.

Hard fought Big East battle and loved how the guys closed out the win.

Was excellent that we won in front of the Final Four squad . Had to be fun for those guys.

On to a another rock fight at Seton Hall
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Goose on January 18, 2023, 10:40:01 PM
Juan

MU had to work harder for good shots tonight. They were efficient, just had to work harder. A couple of mini runs but they worked hard for the shots and the win.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: MU82 on January 18, 2023, 10:40:27 PM
Love the way we fought them. We didn't win every skirmish, but that is not an easy team to battle and we did A-OK.

Every starter had his moments, and Ross gave us some very nice play off the bench.

Great FT shooting down the stretch, including 2 by Oso.

Great all-around game by Kolek, who also put the game away with 4 FTs. Kam came through, too.

Great win. Time to kick some Pirate booty!
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on January 18, 2023, 10:41:33 PM
Oso wasn't in bad foul trouble, he got his two late in first and Shaka put him in for last offensive possession.

Ben Gold in Shaka doghouse, he hardly played at all, again. 

Omax had nothing, absolutely nothing in first 13 minutes.  Finished with 13 points, 3 rebounds 2 assists and one steal.  He also had two thunder dunks to get momentum.  Very nice comeback. 

Hopkins only had five second half points.  He sat one minute in first half and did to come out in second.  He had an ankle issue??????  I am sure he was either tired or ankle hurt him chasing Omax around. 

Need to continue beating BE teams at home, which is huge and they have come up with the wins.  MU has yet to play the three worst teams, so that's a possible six wins.  No letdowns, especially against a hot Seton Hall team.

Weve played Gtown, so definitely have played the worst team.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: nyg on January 18, 2023, 10:43:20 PM
Weve played Gtown, so definitely have played the worst team.

Shoot, they are so bad I forgot. OK, we have St. Johns and Nova at home, so let's make it seven wins possible. 
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: MuggsyB on January 18, 2023, 10:44:47 PM
Marquette shot 58% on 2s, 42% on 3s, and had just 9 turnovers.  We've become spoiled with how good this offense is.

No question about it.  But I do think we can get better defensively and on the glass. 
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on January 18, 2023, 10:48:13 PM
Ben Gold in Shaka doghouse, he hardly played at all, again. 
There is a pretty massive drop off from our starters to our bench. But, our bench consists of three freshmen and a sophomore that played sparingly last year, so the future looks bright. You can probably play them more against Butler, G'Town, etc., but not so much against the top four teams in the league.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: DoctorV on January 18, 2023, 10:49:05 PM
Marquette shot 58% on 2s, 42% on 3s, and had just 9 turnovers.  We've become spoiled with how good this offense is.

This ^^^

Shut it down.

It wasn’t pretty, and everyone felt that.

The fact that this team still did this offensively on one of its off nights says everything.

Tidy up the boards, lock in on D, and take down Shaneen
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: nyg on January 18, 2023, 10:56:38 PM
There is a pretty massive drop off from our starters to our bench. But, our bench consists of three freshmen and a sophomore that played sparingly last year, so the future looks bright. You can probably play them more against Butler, G'Town, etc., but not so much against the top four teams in the league.

I was just hoping for more BE experience which would be beneficial for him.  He will be needed in future if Oso gets in foul trouble, Joplin replacing Oso is a defensive nightmare.

Gold's playing time lately is:

4 minutes tonight
3 minutes
4 minutes
14 ( blowout game)
7 minutes
3 minutes
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: MU82 on January 18, 2023, 10:58:41 PM
When it comes to Gold's playing time, I'm gonna trust the coach who sees him for multiple hours every single day.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: DoctorV on January 18, 2023, 11:02:07 PM
I was just hoping for more BE experience which would be beneficial for him.  He will be needed in future if Oso gets in foul trouble, Joplin replacing Oso is a defensive nightmare.

Gold's playing time lately is:

4 minutes tonight
3 minutes
4 minutes
14 ( blowout game)
7 minutes
3 minutes

I get it, but at the same time I don’t.

You have to win game, Marquette has been winning games.

The rotation will get tighter when the conference title is in play.

Shaka will have to balance, but he has the rope
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on January 18, 2023, 11:04:23 PM
Wade no match for Diener in the beer chugging contest.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: wadesworld on January 18, 2023, 11:10:36 PM
I’d be interested to see Stevie get a shot defensively at some of the stronger wings. OMax seems to be much better chasing around perimeter players and using his length to make their lives miserable. Stevie looks like he’s built to take on a bigger, stronger wing and make the guy take contested shots over the top, like Jrue Holiday does.

Also, Oso I thought Oso was too conservative with his foul trouble down the stretch. With 3 fouls and 10 minutes left? Sure, don’t battle as hard on the boards. But with under 4 minutes left and 3 fouls? Get after it again.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: UWW2MU on January 18, 2023, 11:13:40 PM
Can't believe DWade thought he could out-slam Diener.  Fool!
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: DoctorV on January 18, 2023, 11:15:50 PM
I’d be interested to see Stevie get a shot defensively at some of the stronger wings. OMax seems to be much better chasing around perimeter players and using his length to make their lives miserable. Stevie looks like he’s built to take on a bigger, stronger wing and make the guy take contested shots over the top, like Jrue Holiday does.

Also, Oso I thought Oso was too conservative with his foul trouble down the stretch. With 3 fouls and 10 minutes left? Sure, don’t battle as hard on the boards. But with under 4 minutes left and 3 fouls? Get after it again.

Good point.

Oso on a lead guard and Steve in a bigger wing likely worse well
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Newsdreams on January 18, 2023, 11:24:20 PM
Does 8 points count as a close win?
No less than 5 pts. Were still lacking on that skill, will hurt seeding.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: PointWarrior on January 18, 2023, 11:24:42 PM
Kenpom #13, not that Kenpom matters :)
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Ellenson Guerrero on January 19, 2023, 12:02:00 AM
Kenpom #13, not that Kenpom matters :)

How is it possible that Creighton is 14 with 8 losses and St. Mary’s is number 8 with 4 losses in the WCC. Something wonky going on with his model.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: JakeBarnes on January 19, 2023, 12:08:10 AM
Providence apparently gets the "floor condensation, no travel" calls even away from home.

Marquette fought hard and took home a win. This team has heart and grit. Good win.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 19, 2023, 12:13:36 AM
How is it possible that Creighton is 14 with 8 losses and St. Mary’s is number 8 with 4 losses in the WCC. Something wonky going on with his model.

The answer is always margin of victory:

St. Mary's:
26 point win over #166 Vermont
30 point win over #65 North Texas
18 point win over #229 Southern
28 point win over #127 Hofstra
10 point win over #90 Vanderbilt
20 point win over #128 Missouri State
13 point win over #167 New Mexico State
12 point win over #163 Wyoming
42 point win over #168 Portland
14 point win over #99 Loyola Marymount
17 point win over #113 San Francisco

Their four losses are by a combined 15 points (12 points if you count their 4 point OT loss as a 1 point loss)

Creighton:
12 point win over #214 St. Thomas
35 point win over #325 North Dakota
29 point win over #343 Holy Cross
29 point win over #159 UC Riverside
11 point win over #63 Texas Tech
22 point win over #93 Butler
15 point win over #130 DePaul
22 point win over #50 Seton Hall
21 point win over #93 Butler

5/8 of their losses are by 5 or less and 3 of those are to top 20 teams. 2 of their remaining losses are to top 13 teams on the road. 10 point loss to #92 Nebraska is really their only bad result.

There's also a gap between MU at #13 and CREI at #14. MU is actually closer to becoming #9 then they are to becoming #14.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Shooter McGavin on January 19, 2023, 05:10:14 AM
There is a pretty massive drop off from our starters to our bench. But, our bench consists of three freshmen and a sophomore that played sparingly last year, so the future looks bright. You can probably play them more against Butler, G'Town, etc., but not so much against the top four teams in the league.

I agree with this.  Plenty of playing time to come this season.  Have to tighten the rotation against the best teams.  Gold and Sean will be ready to roll against the Hall. 
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on January 19, 2023, 06:14:25 AM
Gosh, you mean all the pre-season talk of nine players getting big minutes has turned into a shortened rotation come Big East season?

You don’t say.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: tower912 on January 19, 2023, 06:22:51 AM
I disagree with the shortened rotation philosophy.    Play the bench as much as you can to save wear on the starters and to develop the young guys.   I look at how Stevie started playing better late last season as an example.

Mine is not the popular opinion. 
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: tower912 on January 19, 2023, 06:42:37 AM
Coach Smart Speak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8dJo_Ervos

Coach Cooley Speak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUup-4EEr-Y

A lot of class and respect.

Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Goose on January 19, 2023, 06:51:51 AM
tower

I want to see as many guys get as many minutes as possible. It was a tough three hand stretch and they really did need the win last night and shortened bench was not surprising. I am hoping that in the back portion of the schedule our bench can get a lot of minutes and get ready for March.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: muwarrior69 on January 19, 2023, 06:53:59 AM
I disagree with the shortened rotation philosophy.    Play the bench as much as you can to save wear on the starters and to develop the young guys.   I look at how Stevie started playing better late last season as an example.

Mine is not the popular opinion.

I'm with you all the way, especially Ben Gold. We might not have Oso or Omax or both next season, but someone is going elsewhere next season. I really hope they stay as the team can really be something next season.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 19, 2023, 07:01:39 AM
It’s time to play for this year…we have a shot to win the big east.  It’s nice to be in that position after so many years of wandering around aimlessly
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: tower912 on January 19, 2023, 07:08:21 AM
One way to avoid a late season swoon is to have your best players fresh.   The best way to keep your players fresh is to play the bench.  I get that team has very little experience coming off the bench and that the starters are phenomenal together.   Everyone is getting excited about MSG and the tournament.    What kind of legs will the team have left with 4 starters playing 30 minutes per game?
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on January 19, 2023, 07:22:19 AM
One way to avoid a late season swoon is to have your best players fresh.   The best way to keep your players fresh is to play the bench.  I get that team has very little experience coming off the bench and that the starters are phenomenal together.   Everyone is getting excited about MSG and the tournament.    What kind of legs will the team have left with 4 starters playing 30 minutes per game?

Basically the same legs and freshness as the rest of the teams
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: MuggsyB on January 19, 2023, 07:34:28 AM
This team is obviously really good offensively.  We can boast a line-up with no ball stoppers and have multiple guys that can attack the rim.  There are times where we stagnate a bit in the h-c but all in all this is a tremendously versatile group on par with any team in the country.  In transition Marquette is a nightmare problem and can inflict relentless damage

When I look forward my concerns are of course rebounding and our overall defense.  If we are not forcing turns, and have to guard primarily in the half-court, we are vulnerable.  It also puts a ton of pressure on our offense.  Is there anything the Scoop experts see that can we tweak defensively that might kick us up a step or two?  I think our help D needs to react more quickly and our guards have to mix it up a bit on tbe switches.  I've been pleading that we should make an effort to pick up a few charges every game.  I know I'm nitpicking a bit but I feel pretty strongly we aren't close to our ceiling.  I also think we'll see Ross in particular make a jump with his overall consistency.  I absolutely love that kid. 
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: tower912 on January 19, 2023, 07:51:18 AM
Trap more in the half court.  Double team the post more.   
Play the bench more

MU is going to be susceptible to big team pounding the offensive boards.   Avoid getting blown out there and the defense improves.

The other teams are good, too.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Goose on January 19, 2023, 07:53:34 AM
I agree on the half court trap and playing the bench more. Also, I hope teams stop making hard shots with one second on the shot clock.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: MuggsyB on January 19, 2023, 07:56:59 AM
I agree on the half court trap and playing the bench more. Also, I hope teams stop making hard shots with one second on the shot clock.

Can't we push these guys a few steps away from the rim Goose?  Or front a bit more?
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: MuggsyB on January 19, 2023, 07:58:50 AM
Off the subject I can't wait to see Ighodaro's game the next few years.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Goose on January 19, 2023, 07:59:22 AM
Muggsy

That would be a tougher ask. I think the trap causes more issues and forces more perimeter shots.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: tower912 on January 19, 2023, 08:01:04 AM
Can't we push these guys a few steps away from the rim Goose?  Or front a bit more?
We were trying and failing to front the post in the zone.     

And physics says moving big players away from the basket is difficult.  How many players posting you up were you able to move away from the basket, Muggsy?
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Miss Katie’s on January 19, 2023, 08:47:26 AM
Can't believe DWade thought he could out-slam Diener.  Fool!

Right?  Dude is from Fondy 😂
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: MUfan12 on January 19, 2023, 08:54:22 AM
I'm actually of the mind we need to show more and switch less. If the guard truly gets caught in the screen, then switch it. But MU lately has been switching even before contact and it has bitten them a bunch.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: PointWarrior on January 19, 2023, 09:19:14 AM
Between teams making last second shots and Marquette missing two-footers, there is a lot of upside on scoring differential. 



I agree on the half court trap and playing the bench more. Also, I hope teams stop making hard shots with one second on the shot clock.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: wadesworld on January 19, 2023, 09:37:58 AM
Again, you don't need to "save" your main guys by playing your bench to succeed.  If you look at the national champions over the last decade plus, they by and large have 7 or 8 man rotations.  UNC is really the only exception.

These are 18-22 year old guys that are the absolute peak in terms of physical fitness.  They play 2 games a week.  I'm not at all worried about conditioning.  The "February fades" have been more about teams adjusting to what we've been doing, and Marquette not having an answer to those.  There are more pieces to this team to make those needed adjustments.  I hope we do that.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: MU82 on January 19, 2023, 09:43:52 AM
Again, you don't need to "save" your main guys by playing your bench to succeed.  If you look at the national champions over the last decade plus, they by and large have 7 or 8 man rotations.  UNC is really the only exception.

These are 18-22 year old guys that are the absolute peak in terms of physical fitness.  They play 2 games a week.  I'm not at all worried about conditioning.  The "February fades" have been more about teams adjusting to what we've been doing, and Marquette not having an answer to those.  There are more pieces to this team to make those needed adjustments.  I hope we do that.

Agree with all of this.

Plus, there are SO many time-outs in games, and the time-outs are SO long.

The part of the game where guys would figure to be most exhausted -- the last couple minutes -- often include 20+ minutes of time-outs -- those that coaches call, those coaches steal every time the refs take 2-4 minutes to look at replays of the basketball going out of bounds, and those that coaches steal when someone fouls out. If you are 20 years old and you can't catch your breath during 3 minutes of dead time while the refs look at replays, then you should be playing e-sports instead of college basketball.

Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: 79Warrior on January 19, 2023, 09:44:34 AM
When it comes to Gold's playing time, I'm gonna trust the coach who sees him for multiple hours every single day.

Agree. Ben is a project.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: 79Warrior on January 19, 2023, 09:46:48 AM
Again, you don't need to "save" your main guys by playing your bench to succeed.  If you look at the national champions over the last decade plus, they by and large have 7 or 8 man rotations.  UNC is really the only exception.

These are 18-22 year old guys that are the absolute peak in terms of physical fitness.  They play 2 games a week.  I'm not at all worried about conditioning.  The "February fades" have been more about teams adjusting to what we've been doing, and Marquette not having an answer to those.  There are more pieces to this team to make those needed adjustments.  I hope we do that.

That was always the annual Dodds excuse. Tired legs etc..
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on January 19, 2023, 09:49:04 AM
One way to avoid a late season swoon is to have your best players fresh.   The best way to keep your players fresh is to play the bench.  I get that team has very little experience coming off the bench and that the starters are phenomenal together.   Everyone is getting excited about MSG and the tournament.    What kind of legs will the team have left with 4 starters playing 30 minutes per game?
Counter argument: Playing the bench more results in more L's, lowering seeding in the BET and more importantly in the NCAA, making post-season success that much more difficult.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Lennys Tap on January 19, 2023, 10:12:02 AM
Again, you don't need to "save" your main guys by playing your bench to succeed.  If you look at the national champions over the last decade plus, they by and large have 7 or 8 man rotations.  UNC is really the only exception.

These are 18-22 year old guys that are the absolute peak in terms of physical fitness.  They play 2 games a week.  I'm not at all worried about conditioning.  The "February fades" have been more about teams adjusting to what we've been doing, and Marquette not having an answer to those.  There are more pieces to this team to make those needed adjustments.  I hope we do that.

Agree. I think Duke won one with basically a 6 man rotation.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: The Lens on January 19, 2023, 10:23:54 AM
Wade no match for Diener in the beer chugging contest.

Wade = Aaron Rodgers
Diener = David Bakhtiari
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on January 19, 2023, 10:29:14 AM
Highlight for me was seeing DWade rubbing elbows with Dick and Donna Strong. They could play a big role in keeping the band together next year.

You thinking a large NIL influx plus a big bonus for Shaka & assistants?
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Jockey on January 19, 2023, 10:30:49 AM
Again, you don't need to "save" your main guys by playing your bench to succeed.  If you look at the national champions over the last decade plus, they by and large have 7 or 8 man rotations.  UNC is really the only exception.

These are 18-22 year old guys that are the absolute peak in terms of physical fitness.  They play 2 games a week.  I'm not at all worried about conditioning.  The "February fades" have been more about teams adjusting to what we've been doing, and Marquette not having an answer to those.  There are more pieces to this team to make those needed adjustments.  I hope we do that.

Yup.

Kemba Walker didn't look tired to me in the BE tourney a few years back.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: goldeneagle91114 on January 19, 2023, 10:32:04 AM
I agree on the half court trap and playing the bench more. Also, I hope teams stop making hard shots with one second on the shot clock.

This, the number of times Providence hit contested shots, hand in their face, late in the shot clock was nauseating.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: wadesworld on January 19, 2023, 10:34:17 AM
Didn't know where to put this so I'm putting it in the postgame thread.  Unfortunately couldn't be back in Milwaukee for the game, but was looking at the pictures MU's social media posted from the game.  Is it me, or does current day Robert Jackson look more like what Terry Sanders looked like at Marquette than current day Terry Sanders looks like he looked like at MU?  I actually thought they had tagged the wrong person at first until I saw a different picture with Terry in it.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 19, 2023, 10:34:50 AM
I don't believe you need to rest your starters for fear of them getting tired as the season goes on. I do think there can be value in reducing risk of injury.  Staying healthy is a factor in winning any sort of playoff.

Play whatever rotation gives you the best chance to win tonight. If the game is in hand early, maybe play the bench a little more than usual
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Nukem2 on January 19, 2023, 10:36:03 AM
Didn't know where to put this so I'm putting it in the postgame thread.  Unfortunately couldn't be back in Milwaukee for the game, but was looking at the pictures MU's social media posted from the game.  Is it me, or does current day Robert Jackson look more like what Terry Sanders looked like at Marquette than current day Terry Sanders looks like what Terry Sanders looked like at MU?  I actually thought they had tagged the wrong person at first until I saw a different picture with Terry in it.
Yep RJax looks chiseled compared to his playing days and Sanders is chunky.  Also, Karon Bradley looks like a blimp.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: bradforster on January 19, 2023, 10:40:49 AM
This ^^^

Shut it down.

It wasn’t pretty, and everyone felt that.

The fact that this team still did this offensively on one of its off nights says everything.

Tidy up the boards, lock in on D, and take down Shaneen

How is 52.7% shooting from the field - including 8 of 19 from three - considered an off night?  Throw in 85% from the line and moving from third to second in KenPom adjusted offense and I'm perplexed that anyone could call yesterday's performance an "off night."  Every time Providence made a run, Marquette parried the blow.  What am I missing?
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: MuggsyB on January 19, 2023, 10:42:36 AM
We were trying and failing to front the post in the zone.     

And physics says moving big players away from the basket is difficult.  How many players posting you up were you able to move away from the basket, Muggsy?

The only guy who could consistently post me up was Gary Payton.  :)
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: muwarrior69 on January 19, 2023, 10:56:32 AM
Highlight for me was seeing DWade rubbing elbows with Dick and Donna Strong. They could play a big role in keeping the band together next year.

Between Wade and Strong and passing the hat with the 2003 FF team I'm sure they can come up with a few cryptos. Retention! Retention! Retention!

Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: tower912 on January 19, 2023, 10:57:26 AM
I get the counter arguments, scoopers.   I like a legit 9 man rotation.  Like pineapple on pizza, that is just where I land.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on January 19, 2023, 11:09:43 AM
I get the counter arguments, scoopers.   I like a legit 9 man rotation.  Like pineapple on pizza, that is just where I land.
Now I see the problem
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: tower912 on January 19, 2023, 11:11:46 AM
Idiosyncracy, not problem.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: MU62 on January 19, 2023, 11:18:19 AM
Wonderful win by a wonderful team.  So glad The Hall won yesterday.  Gives our guys room for thought.  Nobody should get overlooked in this league.  Even GT. 
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on January 19, 2023, 11:28:30 AM
Idiosyncracy, not problem.
The first step to recovery is admitting that you have a problem
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: connie on January 19, 2023, 11:33:08 AM
I agree on the half court trap and playing the bench more. Also, I hope teams stop making hard shots with one second on the shot clock.
Absolutely.  Can we also try to lay off some of the late game fouls?  I know aggression is part of the team philosophy, but time and place has to be factored in at some point,
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: MU82 on January 19, 2023, 11:41:11 AM
How is 52.7% shooting from the field - including 8 of 19 from three - considered an off night?  Throw in 85% from the line and moving from third to second in KenPom adjusted offense and I'm perplexed that anyone could call yesterday's performance an "off night."  Every time Providence made a run, Marquette parried the blow.  What am I missing?

Nothing. The pace of the game was slower so it wasn't like the Baylor game where we were visually sensational. But we were efficient and effective just about all night, and we controlled the game from the middle of the first half on.

Absolutely.  Can we also try to lay off some of the late game fouls?  I know aggression is part of the team philosophy, but time and place has to be factored in at some point,

I agree with this, but the refs changed the way they called the game. They practically had a no-blood-no-foul stance for the first 25 minutes, started calling it closer for the next 10 minutes, and then started calling every breath a foul the last few minutes.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: brewcity77 on January 19, 2023, 11:51:33 AM
I get the counter arguments, scoopers.   I like a legit 9 man rotation.  Like pineapple on pizza, that is just where I land.

I think it's fine to get you to March, but you start trimming back and figuring out the best lineups and rotations in January and February.

Once you get to March, you limit to 7-8 and most of those minutes should go to the first 5. You still have the back end if needed, but winning in single elimination settings takes getting the best from your best.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Uncle Rico on January 19, 2023, 11:54:33 AM
I think it's fine to get you to March, but you start trimming back and figuring out the best lineups and rotations in January and February.

Once you get to March, you limit to 7-8 and most of those minutes should go to the first 5. You still have the back end if needed, but winning in single elimination settings takes getting the best from your best.

I’m just glad they have practice depth and I’m being 100% honest.  That hasn’t been the case recently
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: pbiflyer on January 19, 2023, 12:14:56 PM
I agree on the half court trap and playing the bench more. Also, I hope teams stop making hard shots with one second on the shot clock.

My dog has PTSD now from me screaming and pounding the coach cushions every time that happened last night. Jeez.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: TVDirector on January 19, 2023, 12:26:05 PM
Absolutely.  Can we also try to lay off some of the late game fouls?  I know aggression is part of the team philosophy, but time and place has to be factored in at some point,

while the challenges in rebounding are frustrating, the late fouls when you're trying to kill clock and not necessarily playing good D to boot is maddening....
if PC was a bit closer score-wise, this could have been a literal game-changer.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: pbiflyer on January 19, 2023, 12:27:33 PM
How is 52.7% shooting from the field - including 8 of 19 from three - considered an off night?  Throw in 85% from the line and moving from third to second in KenPom adjusted offense and I'm perplexed that anyone could call yesterday's performance an "off night."  Every time Providence made a run, Marquette parried the blow.  What am I missing?

I am guilty of that too. It shows how good our offense is. My son was working on a project, so wasn't watching. He came in at the end of the first half and asked how we were playing. I said good on defense, but need to improve our offense. Maybe it is just how Providence makes it look....ugly.

Was nice to see us counter punch each time at the end. 
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: MU82 on January 19, 2023, 12:29:18 PM
My dog has PTSD now from me screaming and pounding the coach cushions every time that happened last night. Jeez.

Given how many of us are doing this -- and how many of our poor dogs are suffering from PTSD because of it -- I'm just now starting to think that our reaction in front of our TVs might not help solve the problem!
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Goose on January 19, 2023, 12:55:21 PM
brad

The only difference I saw last night offensively was they needed to work harder to get open shots. It seemed like it took 5-7 more seconds to get the open look. They definitely were efficient again last night, maybe just a tad slower in getting it done.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Tha Hound on January 19, 2023, 01:09:35 PM
I get the counter arguments, scoopers.   I like a legit 9 man rotation.  Like pineapple on pizza, that is just where I land.

Everyone here would love a legit 9 man rotation. I'm sure Shaka would love a legit 9 man rotation. I would also love a billion dollars in my bank account.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: StillWarriors on January 19, 2023, 01:16:20 PM


I agree with this, but the refs changed the way they called the game. They practically had a no-blood-no-foul stance for the first 25 minutes, started calling it closer for the next 10 minutes, and then started calling every breath a foul the last few minutes.

This seems to be a trend lately. Teams getting to the bonus far quicker in second halves, and very few fouls called in the first. Far better than a few years ago though when it seemed like games had no flow because of all the fouls, and teams were reaching the bonus with 10 mins to go in a half frequently.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on January 19, 2023, 01:42:35 PM
I get the counter arguments, scoopers.   I like a legit 9 man rotation.  Like pineapple on pizza, that is just where I land.

You need an ananas comosus Dry January
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: tower912 on January 19, 2023, 01:57:27 PM
Among so many things.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: Jockey on January 19, 2023, 05:25:56 PM
I think it's fine to get you to March, but you start trimming back and figuring out the best lineups and rotations in January and February.

Once you get to March, you limit to 7-8 and most of those minutes should go to the first 5. You still have the back end if needed, but winning in single elimination settings takes getting the best from your best.


We are a 7-8 man rotation already, The 9th guy - Gold - has been averaging less than 5 minutes a game against the better teams with the starters generally playing over 75% of the minutes.
Title: Re: Revenge is a grind
Post by: We R Final Four on January 19, 2023, 07:14:05 PM
I'm actually of the mind we need to show more and switch less. If the guard truly gets caught in the screen, then switch it. But MU lately has been switching even before contact and it has bitten them a bunch.
This. Kam or Stevie or God forbid Sean on Nunge…kalbrenner….Croswell is brutal. Best we can hope for is a foul before the shot goes in.