MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MuggsyB on January 17, 2023, 08:01:14 AM

Title: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: MuggsyB on January 17, 2023, 08:01:14 AM
Starting tomorrow night.  This is one area where we're going to have to improve moving forward and I believe we can.  It seems to me part of this issue is basic fundamentals and overall tenacity.  No, we're not blessed with a bunch of Dennis Rodman's or Moses Malone's, but finishing our defensive possessions has to be a team focus. 

Grab the basketball!  Sometimes we react in lieu of owning the ball and holding on with two hands.   It cannot just be Oso, this must be a collective effort and with unwavering relentlessness  and intensity.  We have seen it in spots but have also gotten bullied a bit as we were Sunday.  How important do I think rebounding the rock is as we move towards the NCAA tournament?  It can be the difference in making a F4 and  losing to a 13 seed in the 1st rd..

Let me just leave you with this small note.  I rewatched the Sunday game and have gone from 85% believing we gifted them the game to 100%.  And for those of you that are content and say "Muggsy you can't expect to win every game" I will tell you emphatically my eyes are wide freaking open and functioning like a bald eagle.  We 100% threw away two games.

Chucky Hepburn played out of his ass and Purdue was too good.  Fine, we can deal with that.  I'm also by no means suggesting our guys aren't balling and folding under the pressure or Shaka isn't doing a masterful job.  This team is as exciting a group as I've seen in a decade and I love their competitive fight.  My point is we have a real chance to make a deep run and would have never thought that before the season started.  CARPE DIEM!  We absolutely can do this NOW and the future is even brighter.  This is just a reminder that we cannot be complacent and accept moral victories, even as Scoopers/MU Fans.  Let's throttle Providence tomorrow and get this train rolling again.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: tower912 on January 17, 2023, 08:02:21 AM
This was identified as a concern last summer.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: MuggsyB on January 17, 2023, 08:05:15 AM
Quote from: tower912 on January 17, 2023, 08:02:21 AM
This was identified as a concern last summer.

I know.  Possessions matter.  It can be done as a group. 
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: The Sultan on January 17, 2023, 08:07:01 AM
And it's been a weakness of Shaka teams for awhile.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: MuggsyB on January 17, 2023, 08:09:04 AM
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 17, 2023, 08:07:01 AM
And it's been a weakness of Shaka teams for awhile.

We were terrific against Purdue.  It's difficult for sure but I do believe we can hold our own.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: muwarrior69 on January 17, 2023, 08:11:19 AM
Just sent the team a case of Windex; should be there for Wednesday's game.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: Scoop Snoop on January 17, 2023, 08:13:19 AM
"My eyes are wide freaking open." Of course they are- you have had 3 gallons of coffee already, haven't you?  ;D  I'm guessing you are also bald, right?  ;D

Yeah Muggs. Although it has been pointed out many times that Shaka does not make rebounding a central part of his system, it is one factor that has really hurt us. Too many missed opportunities.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: MuggsyB on January 17, 2023, 09:11:01 AM
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 17, 2023, 08:13:19 AM
"My eyes are wide freaking open." Of course they are- you have had 3 gallons of coffee already, haven't you?  ;D  I'm guessing you are also bald, right?  ;D

Yeah Muggs. Although it has been pointed out many times that Shaka does not make rebounding a central part of his system, it is one factor that has really hurt us. Too many missed opportunities.

I have 0.0 hair loss to this point Scoop Snoop.  :)
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 17, 2023, 09:34:56 AM
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 17, 2023, 09:11:01 AM
I have 0.0 hair loss to this point Scoop Snoop.  :)

But how much have you torn out in frustration?  ;D

Rebounding is this team's weakness. Will likely be the case as long as Shaka is coach. I hope they improve on it but I don't see them making any massive improvement midseason.

Personally I was more concerned about our lack of TOs forced against X. They are TO prone team and that is our strength. I expect us to get outrebounded, I don't expect us to only force 10 TOs against a poor ball controlling team. It seemed like we also weren't pushing the pace when we got a turn.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: Scoop Snoop on January 17, 2023, 09:47:47 AM
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 17, 2023, 09:34:56 AM
But how much have you torn out in frustration?  ;D

Rebounding is this team's weakness. Will likely be the case as long as Shaka is coach. I hope they improve on it but I don't see them making any massive improvement midseason.

Personally I was more concerned about our lack of TOs forced against X. They are TO prone team and that is our strength. I expect us to get outrebounded, I don't expect us to only force 10 TOs against a poor ball controlling team. It seemed like we also weren't pushing the pace when we got a turn.

This! Our rebounding will never be great unless it is by default (aka our opponent is worse). Agree that we did not press our advantage at forcing to's.

Anybody else notice that Muggsy denied the hair loss but remained silent on the 3 gallons of coffee?
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: MuggsyB on January 17, 2023, 09:50:18 AM
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 17, 2023, 09:34:56 AM
But how much have you torn out in frustration?  ;D

Rebounding is this team's weakness. Will likely be the case as long as Shaka is coach. I hope they improve on it but I don't see them making any massive improvement midseason.

Personally I was more concerned about our lack of TOs forced against X. They are TO prone team and that is our strength. I expect us to get outrebounded, I don't expect us to only force 10 TOs against a poor ball controlling team. It seemed like we also weren't pushing the pace when we got a turn.

That's a good point.  We probably didn't score off their turns in the 2H. 
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: mugrad_89 on January 17, 2023, 09:50:45 AM
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 17, 2023, 09:34:56 AM
But how much have you torn out in frustration?  ;D

Rebounding is this team's weakness. Will likely be the case as long as Shaka is coach. I hope they improve on it but I don't see them making any massive improvement midseason.

Personally I was more concerned about our lack of TOs forced against X. They are TO prone team and that is our strength. I expect us to get outrebounded, I don't expect us to only force 10 TOs against a poor ball controlling team. It seemed like we also weren't pushing the pace when we got a turn.

I too would've like to see them apply more full court pressure against Xavier.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: MuggsyB on January 17, 2023, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 17, 2023, 09:47:47 AM
This! Our rebounding will never be great unless it is by default (aka our opponent is worse). Agree that we did not press our advantage at forcing to's.

Anybody else notice that Muggsy denied the hair loss but remained silent on the 3 gallons of coffee?

I had a few cups of coffee before heading to work. 
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: jfp61 on January 17, 2023, 09:59:25 AM
Marquette needs to force more missed baskets. That is infinitely more important than how they rebound.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: JakeBarnes on January 17, 2023, 10:06:30 AM
I cleaned the shower and the glass door that goes with it this morning.

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/5L2okTiupVRxC/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952bplquyspaoysysfiz0tst4ybye0tv3ic958zzirh&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)

Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 17, 2023, 10:19:57 AM
Quote from: jfp61 on January 17, 2023, 09:59:25 AM
Marquette needs to force more missed baskets. That is infinitely more important than how they rebound.

Part of forcing missed baskets is defensive rebounding. They forced a ton of missed first baskets against X. It was those second baskets where they couldn't force misses.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: robmufan on January 17, 2023, 10:23:42 AM
Jump on me if I am looking at this the wrong way, but even though we aren't rebounding great, we also aren't getting outshot by a wide margin each game. Going back through St. John's, X and St. John's bot got 4 more shots than us.

Would I like more boards on both ends? Sure. But maybe they recognize it's not a strength and try to set themselves up in other ways to succeed.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: Nukem2 on January 17, 2023, 10:27:49 AM
Quote from: jfp61 on January 17, 2023, 09:59:25 AM
Marquette needs to force more missed baskets. That is infinitely more important than how they rebound.
Well sure that would help. But they are already losing too many rebounds after missed shots as it is. Catch 22 here.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: MUfan12 on January 17, 2023, 10:35:37 AM
It is what it is. All this team has to do is avoid being completely awful on the glass. They fell short of that Sunday.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: tower912 on January 17, 2023, 10:37:50 AM
Look for more teams to send extra players to the glass.   It worked last year to help stop MU's transition game.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: dgies9156 on January 17, 2023, 11:12:37 AM
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 17, 2023, 08:01:14 AM
Starting tomorrow night.  This is one area where we're going to have to improve moving forward and I believe we can.  It seems to me part of this issue is basic fundamentals and overall tenacity.  No, we're not blessed with a bunch of Dennis Rodman's or Moses Malone's, but finishing our defensive possessions has to be a team focus. 

Grab the basketball!  Sometimes we react in lieu of owning the ball and holding on with two hands.   It cannot just be Oso, this must be a collective effort and with unwavering relentlessness  and intensity. 

This was the problem when we were defeated by Mississippi State down in Ft. Myers. I remember well leaving the game with JB and the conclusion was this is the one area that will haunt us all season.

Think about it -- if we had rebounded nearly evenly with Providence, Wisconsin, Xavier, Miss State and Purdue, we'd probably be close to undefeated. My recollection is rebounding killed us in all those games.

There probably is limited opportunity to address this year without fundamentally changing the way we play -- or our rotation. But it's an issue for next year.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: Daniel on January 17, 2023, 11:13:58 AM
On the rebounding, yes we all know it is a issue.   Even Shaka talks about it and say we need to get better.  Ok so what is being done about getting better?  Recruiting? Practice?   In game adjustments?  This is the part that gets a lot of us crazy because it is acknowledged as an issue by the teamsters and coaches and a few on Scoop (haha)  as a problem.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: MuggsyB on January 17, 2023, 11:15:30 AM
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 17, 2023, 10:35:37 AM
It is what it is. All this team has to do is avoid being completely awful on the glass. They fell short of that Sunday.

We weren't good.  It's the long rebs and not getting loose balls that drove me up the wall. 
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: Shooter McGavin on January 17, 2023, 11:17:30 AM
I think someone already said this but why would it take almost half the conference season for Big Eat coaches to send more players to the offensive glass?  If this is indeed true, they need to be fired.  Between last year and our pre conference season this year, they should already know how to play MU.   
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: muhoosier260 on January 17, 2023, 11:19:48 AM
Quote from: robmufan on January 17, 2023, 10:23:42 AM
Jump on me if I am looking at this the wrong way, but even though we aren't rebounding great, we also aren't getting outshot by a wide margin each game. Going back through St. John's, X and St. John's bot got 4 more shots than us.

Would I like more boards on both ends? Sure. But maybe they recognize it's not a strength and try to set themselves up in other ways to succeed.

In some ways they've already done this, with pressing, trapping, and defensive intensity. The whole story isn't told in fg or OREB stats....Xavier had too many offensive boards which then turned into free throws, and a couple and 1 opportunities. Rebounding is something this team can improve upon, and they really need to to win games like @Xavier.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: tower912 on January 17, 2023, 11:28:42 AM
One of the challenges for MU is the switching on defense.   Because MU's forwards are quick enough to defend on the perimeter, frequently one of them is either contesting the 3 or  defending against the next pass on the perimeter.  If contesting the shot, they come down 20 feet from the basket as the ball is hitting the rim.   Leaving one forward and a collection of guards underneath.  Leaving a team like Xavier sending Nunge, Freemantle, and a third player to the boards.   Physics.

Oso yelled at Omax once for leaking out early.   The shot went up, Omax was at the. foul line and was starting up court.   Oso got out muscled for the ball, turned and yelled at OMax.   That is a mistake by OMax that can be corrected.

The other is a scheme issue that parallels a problem Wojo had.   If Luke/Theo/Oso/Omax are contesting 3's, who rebounds if the other team sends multiple players to the boards?    Teams made that adjustment in February last year.

  We will have to see what happens now. 
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: Jockey on January 17, 2023, 11:51:52 AM
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 17, 2023, 08:07:01 AM
And it's been a weakness of Shaka teams for awhile.

It will continue to be for a while.

Playing three guards almost constantly means rebounding issues - especially when O-Max plays like a big guard rather than a PF.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on January 17, 2023, 12:02:45 PM
Scheme and lineup get more stressed when Oso gets into foul trouble early which is what BE coaches are first trying to accomplish. MSU, The Dence, UCONN, X.

Stevie is an awesome PG defender but he is essentially playing a forward spot. If teams are crashing three, OMax, Gold, and Joplin need to step up on the boards. That was Zach's role and why Shaka grabbed him.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: mugrad_89 on January 17, 2023, 12:27:46 PM
Quote from: tower912 on January 17, 2023, 11:28:42 AM
One of the challenges for MU is the switching on defense.   Because MU's forwards are quick enough to defend on the perimeter, frequently one of them is either contesting the 3 or  defending against the next pass on the perimeter.  If contesting the shot, they come down 20 feet from the basket as the ball is hitting the rim.   Leaving one forward and a collection of guards underneath.  Leaving a team like Xavier sending Nunge, Freemantle, and a third player to the boards.   Physics.

Oso yelled at Omax once for leaking out early.   The shot went up, Omax was at the. foul line and was starting up court.   Oso got out muscled for the ball, turned and yelled at OMax.   That is a mistake by OMax that can be corrected.

The other is a scheme issue that parallels a problem Wojo had.   If Luke/Theo/Oso/Omax are contesting 3's, who rebounds if the other team sends multiple players to the boards?    Teams made that adjustment in February last year.

  We will have to see what happens now.

We need more guys crashing the defensive glass even if it slows down the breakout - we are more than quick enough to still put stress on the opponent's transition defense.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: MU82 on January 17, 2023, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: tower912 on January 17, 2023, 11:28:42 AM
Oso yelled at Omax

We will have to see what happens now.

Hopefully not a letter.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: MuggsyB on January 17, 2023, 01:41:40 PM
Quote from: mugrad_89 on January 17, 2023, 12:27:46 PM
We need more guys crashing the defensive glass even if it slows down the breakout - we are more than quick enough to still put stress on the opponent's transition defense.

XU's guards were +10 on the glass vs our guys. We must grab those long and in between rebs and forcefully hold on with two hands while boxing out other bigs.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: DoctorV on January 17, 2023, 01:53:00 PM
The 14th best rebounding team in the country is coming to town, with a 6'7 and 6'8 guy that eat glass better than most guys in the conference.

A team that is well coached, as most are in the conference these days, and lost on this same court a year ago by 100 in a season when they won a conference title.
MU and Coach Shaka have the foul discrepancy gripe from weeks ago, but Providence and Coach Cooley have the memory of being embarrassed motivation, even though this years squad is much different than last years.

This is following a difficult, emotional loss with only two days to prepare.

The home crowd will help, the 2003FF team energy will help, but this one won't be easy.

It's also the most important game of this years conference slate imo, coming off of a loss with a trip to a separate challenge @SH looming.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: StillAWarrior on January 17, 2023, 01:53:30 PM
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 17, 2023, 01:41:40 PM
We must grab those long and in between rebs and forcefully hold on with two hands while boxing out other bigs.

MU's failure to aggressively grab the ball -- whether rebounding or loose balls -- has caused me to yell at the TV more than any other tendency. It drives me crazy to see one of our guys standing flat footed waiting for a ball to reach him, while an opponent lunges for the ball and secures it. Also, when one of our guys is watching a ball go out of bounds knowing that the opponent touched it last, and then one of their guys flies in and saves the ball to their team.

Just. Grab. The. Damn. Ball.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: MuggsyB on January 17, 2023, 02:09:11 PM
Quote from: StillAWarrior on January 17, 2023, 01:53:30 PM
MU's failure to aggressively grab the ball -- whether rebounding or loose balls -- has caused me to yell at the TV more than any other tendency. It drives me crazy to see one of our guys standing flat footed waiting for a ball to reach him, while an opponent lunges for the ball and secures it. Also, when one of our guys is watching a ball go out of bounds knowing that the opponent touched it last, and then one of their guys flies in and saves the ball to their team.

Just. Grab. The. Damn. Ball.

Spot-on StillAWarrior.  I understand that some Scoopers think we're nitpicking but these are the little things that can make an enormous difference come March.  I and my pup have also yelled/barked at the TV quite a few times over this issue. 
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: Shooter McGavin on January 17, 2023, 02:09:51 PM
Quote from: StillAWarrior on January 17, 2023, 01:53:30 PM
MU's failure to aggressively grab the ball -- whether rebounding or loose balls -- has caused me to yell at the TV more than any other tendency. It drives me crazy to see one of our guys standing flat footed waiting for a ball to reach him, while an opponent lunges for the ball and secures it. Also, when one of our guys is watching a ball go out of bounds knowing that the opponent touched it last, and then one of their guys flies in and saves the ball to their team.

Just. Grab. The. Damn. Ball.

Yep.  Watched the game again and this is the reason we lost.  They would have out rebounded us easily anyway but 4-5 more boards that were essentially ours before being poked away and a couple loose balls that were essentially ours that were poked away prevented MU from winning by 6-8 points.

Xavier had the extra kick of energy from being at home.  Let's hope that same energy transfers to MU when we play Xavier at Fiserv.  I look forward to it.  Should be fun.

Have to beat Providence first though to ultimately have that game mean something.  Get er done MU!
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: Its DJOver on January 17, 2023, 02:23:46 PM
Quote from: DoctorV on January 17, 2023, 01:53:00 PM
The 14th best rebounding team in the country is coming to town, with a 6'7 and 6'8 guy that eat glass better than most guys in the conference.

A team that is well coached, as most are in the conference these days, and lost on this same court a year ago by 100 in a season when they won a conference title.
MU and Coach Shaka have the foul discrepancy gripe from weeks ago, but Providence and Coach Cooley have the memory of being embarrassed motivation, even though this years squad is much different than last years.

This is following a difficult, emotional loss with only two days to prepare.

The home crowd will help, the 2003FF team energy will help, but this one won't be easy.

It's also the most important game of this years conference slate imo, coming off of a loss with a trip to a separate challenge @SH looming.

This.  Honestly think this is our best/worst chance to drop another home game this season.  I know it took us somewhat collapsing late, plus double OT, plus a huge FT discrepancy for PC to get the win in their building, but this one worries me more than any remaining home game. 
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: MUDPT on January 17, 2023, 02:28:31 PM
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 17, 2023, 12:02:45 PM
Scheme and lineup get more stressed when Oso gets into foul trouble early which is what BE coaches are first trying to accomplish. MSU, The Dence, UCONN, X.

Stevie is an awesome PG defender but he is essentially playing a forward spot. If teams are crashing three, OMax, Gold, and Joplin need to step up on the boards. That was Zach's role and why Shaka grabbed him.

This.  If the personnel changes to get more rebounds, it almost has to be someone that gets turnovers goes to the bench.  The number of possessions probably washes out in the end. 
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: jfp61 on January 17, 2023, 02:29:51 PM
Quote from: DoctorV on January 17, 2023, 01:53:00 PM
The 14th best rebounding team in the country is coming to town, with a 6'7 and 6'8 guy that eat glass better than most guys in the conference.

A team that is well coached, as most are in the conference these days, and lost on this same court a year ago by 100 in a season when they won a conference title.
MU and Coach Shaka have the foul discrepancy gripe from weeks ago, but Providence and Coach Cooley have the memory of being embarrassed motivation, even though this years squad is much different than last years.

This is following a difficult, emotional loss with only two days to prepare.

The home crowd will help, the 2003FF team energy will help, but this one won't be easy.

It's also the most important game of this years conference slate imo, coming off of a loss with a trip to a separate challenge @SH looming.

We beat them by 32 last year.

Xavier is alot better than PC
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: BallBoy on January 17, 2023, 02:30:30 PM
We always talk about rebounding as our achilles heel but there is more than that.
1. Kolek owned the first half until Xavier figured out they just needed to make him go to his right.  Once that happened he was a non-factor in the 2H.  This is what I expect him to experience the rest of the way.
2. Jones is a run killer.  He was 2-9 from the field and he started 2-2.  As a team we shot 25%. 
3. We had a few bad bounces.  I think every 50/50 ball went their way.  The number of times it caught on the foot after a defection to just roll out of bounds or hit someone as they are laying out of bounds was ungodly.
4.  If Omax hits the layup or we have just a little more time on the clock we wouldn't have needed to foul a 87% free throw shooter
5. In the last 8:30 minutes, MU scored 13 while X scored 14 so as much as we talk about rebounding being a problem we just didn't score.     
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: jfp61 on January 17, 2023, 02:35:35 PM
In the first half Marquette was outrebounded by 26-14.. Marquette was up 4.
In the second half Marquette and Xavier had the same amount of rebounds. Marquette was down 8.

Please focus all attention to turnovers and shooting efficiency.

Both of these stats blow rebounding out of the water.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on January 17, 2023, 02:37:37 PM
I feel like this may be the bane of this squad come March.  Catch a team with athletic and mobile bigs that excel at rebounding, and we'll get killed on the glass.  Can't give really good teams 2nd, 3rd and 4th chances on the offensive end.  We saw that a ton in the 1st half against X, and a couple of the other losses.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: MU82 on January 17, 2023, 02:51:55 PM
Quote from: BallBoy on January 17, 2023, 02:30:30 PM
We always talk about rebounding as our achilles heel but there is more than that.
1. Kolek owned the first half until Xavier figured out they just needed to make him go to his right.  Once that happened he was a non-factor in the 2H.  This is what I expect him to experience the rest of the way.
2. Jones is a run killer.  He was 2-9 from the field and he started 2-2.  As a team we shot 25%. 
3. We had a few bad bounces.  I think every 50/50 ball went their way.  The number of times it caught on the foot after a defection to just roll out of bounds or hit someone as they are laying out of bounds was ungodly.
4.  If Omax hits the layup or we have just a little more time on the clock we wouldn't have needed to foul a 87% free throw shooter
5. In the last 8:30 minutes, MU scored 13 while X scored 14 so as much as we talk about rebounding being a problem we just didn't score.   

1. The bigger surprise was that X repeatedly let him go left and get all the way to the hoop in the first half. Every team already knows you need to make Kolek as RH as possible. That was more of a coaching fail in the first half as opposed to some kind of genius adjustment in the second half. Most teams already work hard to take away his LH and he hurts them with the other parts of his game.

2. Jones is only a "run killer" when he misses. When he hits -- as in the second half against UConn -- he is a run-maker and/or run-extender. He missed at least 4 wide-open 3s Sunday; I'll take those 4 looks for Kam every single game. Shooters gotta shoot, and nobody was complaining about it in the aftermath of UConn or several of our other wins where Kam made important shots.

3. Agree. But we did also get outhustled a few times or failed to hold onto the ball, as others have pointed out. Sometimes you gotta make your own luck.

4. Yes. Unfortunately human beings sometimes miss layups, dammit. (Unless we're talking about the opposing team's human beings; then take off the "dammit" part.)

5. I wish we rebounded better but I agree with those who say that most of the time it's not what is costing us games.

Quote from: DoctorV on January 17, 2023, 01:53:00 PM
MU and Coach Shaka have the foul discrepancy gripe from weeks ago, but Providence and Coach Cooley have the memory of being embarrassed motivation.

The home crowd will help, the 2003FF team energy will help, but this one won't be easy.

Coaches are excellent at finding things to motivate their teams. If it wasn't the foul discrepancy or us beating the snot out of The Provi last season, Shaka and Cooley would find something else. In the end, teams play to win because they play to win because they play to win. That is the motivation.

It's not supposed to be easy.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: MUfan12 on January 17, 2023, 02:53:45 PM
Quote from: BallBoy on January 17, 2023, 02:30:30 PM
We always talk about rebounding as our achilles heel but there is more than that.
1. Kolek owned the first half until Xavier figured out they just needed to make him go to his right.  Once that happened he was a non-factor in the 2H.  This is what I expect him to experience the rest of the way.

If guys could make a damn shot in the second half we'd be raving about a 25 point, 13 assist game for Tyler in a road win.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on January 17, 2023, 02:56:27 PM
Quote from: jfp61 on January 17, 2023, 02:35:35 PM
In the first half Marquette was outrebounded by 26-14.. Marquette was up 4.
In the second half Marquette and Xavier had the same amount of rebounds. Marquette was down 8.

Please focus all attention to turnovers and shooting efficiency.

Both of these stats blow rebounding out of the water.

MU won both efg% and turnover rate factors. Lost Orb% and FTR.  Just like with The Dence. As you say, an anomaly.  A little bit warmer from trey and MU overcomes that as you say.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: Scoop Snoop on January 17, 2023, 02:58:25 PM
Quote from: StillAWarrior on January 17, 2023, 01:53:30 PM
MU's failure to aggressively grab the ball -- whether rebounding or loose balls -- has caused me to yell at the TV more than any other tendency. It drives me crazy to see one of our guys standing flat footed waiting for a ball to reach him, while an opponent lunges for the ball and secures it. Also, when one of our guys is watching a ball go out of bounds knowing that the opponent touched it last, and then one of their guys flies in and saves the ball to their team.

Just. Grab. The. Damn. Ball.

Your post is significantly different from the posters saying, in effect, that we need to be a much better all-around rebounding team. I have seen too many of the bolded situations. It has happened far too often, and it is infuriating. Thanks for the great post.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: mugrad_89 on January 17, 2023, 03:20:15 PM
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 17, 2023, 02:58:25 PM
Your post is significantly different from the posters saying, in effect, that we need to be a much better all-around rebounding team. I have seen too many of the bolded situations. It has happened far too often, and it is infuriating. Thanks for the great post.

Spot on to the both of you - Nunge was out-hustling our guards to loose balls - that cannot happen.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: jfp61 on January 17, 2023, 03:52:30 PM
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 17, 2023, 02:56:27 PM
MU won both efg% and turnover rate factors. Lost Orb% and FTR.  Just like with The Dence. As you say, an anomaly.  A little bit warmer from trey and MU overcomes that as you say.

In the first half MU won 3/4, losing rebounding. MU +4
In the second half MU 1/4 ( the won rebounding though.) MU -8
That's my point.

Focus on taking good shots and forcing TO's. Be who this team is. Shifting the focus to rebounding isn't a solution for this team (or most teams) winning more games. You win by pressing your advantages, and what is most important.

My theory with this team now is just figuring out the right rotation for postseason play. The Bench needs to put in better performances to maximize this team.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: oilcan on January 17, 2023, 06:09:41 PM
I have been playing bb my entire life. I am seventy now. I wanted my son to play in high school and get a college scholarship. I worked with him on the fundamentals but I didn't browbeat him.  He could hit three pointers from distance at a high percentage but he didn't get enough shots his freshman year and got discouraged. I told him to get rebounds and shoot the ball. He said dad the rebounds don't come to me and I said, they don't come to you- you go get them. He quit his sophomore year.  My grandson was more athletic, he ran up and down the court like a gazelle. He could get a break away and dunk. After his freshman year of bb he quit to concentrate on football. He got a scholarship, got a girl pregnant and quit school.  Oh well, that's the way it goes. I don't know if this means anything to anyone, just my experience. No regrets.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: Judge Smails on January 17, 2023, 06:30:27 PM
Quote from: mugrad_89 on January 17, 2023, 03:20:15 PM
Spot on to the both of you - Nunge was out-hustling our guards to loose balls - that cannot happen.

Jop had 2 missed 3s where he didn't follow his shot. Both shots resulted in long rebounds that Jop could've gotten if he followed his shot as no X player was on him. Generally, this team's hustle is great, but there are times when it isn't.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: MuggsyB on January 17, 2023, 06:32:09 PM
Does anyone have the 2nd chance points stats for this game?
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: The Sultan on January 17, 2023, 06:33:20 PM
Quote from: Judge Smails on January 17, 2023, 06:30:27 PM
Jop had 2 missed 3s where he didn't follow his shot. Both shots resulted in long rebounds that Jop could've gotten if he followed his shot as no X player was on him. Generally, this team's hustle is great, but there are times when it isn't.

A lot of coaches don't want perimeter shooters to follow up their shots because they don't want to give up something easy on the other end. I see this at all levels of basketball now.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: MU82 on January 17, 2023, 06:36:57 PM
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 17, 2023, 06:32:09 PM
Does anyone have the 2nd chance points stats for this game?

X 17, MU 8

We had 2 more points in the paint and 4 more points off turnovers.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: MuggsyB on January 17, 2023, 06:42:32 PM
Quote from: MU82 on January 17, 2023, 06:36:57 PM
X 17, MU 8

We had 2 more points in the paint and 4 more points off turnovers.

Ty.

Kam settled quite a bit on Sunday.  I know TyKo had it going but I'd like to see Kam aggressive with his downhill attacks and take a few before he gets to the rim.  The good news is MU was right there with their C offensive game in the 2H. 
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: Newsdreams on January 17, 2023, 08:06:58 PM
MU needs Windex to really clean the glass
Late
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: panda on January 17, 2023, 08:11:56 PM
Quote from: oilcan on January 17, 2023, 06:09:41 PM
I have been playing bb my entire life. I am seventy now. I wanted my son to play in high school and get a college scholarship. I worked with him on the fundamentals but I didn't browbeat him.  He could hit three pointers from distance at a high percentage but he didn't get enough shots his freshman year and got discouraged. I told him to get rebounds and shoot the ball. He said dad the rebounds don't come to me and I said, they don't come to you- you go get them. He quit his sophomore year.  My grandson was more athletic, he ran up and down the court like a gazelle. He could get a break away and dunk. After his freshman year of bb he quit to concentrate on football. He got a scholarship, got a girl pregnant and quit school.  Oh well, that's the way it goes. I don't know if this means anything to anyone, just my experience. No regrets.

That's the American dream oil can. Thanks for sharing
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: oilcan on January 17, 2023, 09:40:03 PM
Well the thing is they're both healthy and happy doing other things.  That's all that really matters. Thank you for recognizing my point of view. The ball doesn't come to you after it bounces off the backboard or the rim. You go after it. 

Speaking of going after it:  Smart has used this time to evaluate his team, find out what his players (especially the young ones) are capable of in game situations, and he's determining their roles. If someone could break out pick up his play as quickly and Wade or work as hard as Jimmy that player would jump up and grab the minutes necessary to make an impact.  This year. I think we are a year away. I also think Kam Jones will start to take over because he will benefit from the Kolek passes and will shoot more and make a high percentage of threes. And the guy can drive the lane. Until he gets pushed chest to chest by a bigger defender at the guard he's going to shoot the lights out. He needs to because MU can't push butt with some of the guys in the BE. If you hit shots you don't care about rebounds.  Am I wrong?
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: brewcity77 on January 17, 2023, 09:41:27 PM
Quote from: jfp61 on January 17, 2023, 02:29:51 PM
We beat them by 32 last year.

Xavier is alot better than PC

Personal opinion, I think PC is far better this year than they were last year. Last year's team lucked into a lot of results and wasn't as good as their asterisked Big East title and tourney run would indicate in retrospect. Hopkins is a legit NBA player and has maybe the best claim to BEPOY at this point. Carter was a great add and he's excellent on both ends. Croswell is better than Watson. Last year, they would've folded at Creighton, but they fought back in that game and made it close even though they ultimately fell. I think this league is a 3-team race between X, PC, and us. Winning tomorrow would go a long way toward giving us a shot at a share of that title.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: Goose on January 18, 2023, 01:26:52 AM
Oilcan

Making shots hides a lot of weaknesses. Glad to see you posting more often. It has been a fun season so far and the guys are fun to watch.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: panda on January 18, 2023, 06:38:43 AM
Quote from: oilcan on January 17, 2023, 09:40:03 PM
The ball doesn't come to you after it bounces off the backboard or the rim. You go after it. 

A euphemism for the challenges and complexities of life. Thx oil can
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: MuggsyB on January 18, 2023, 07:10:53 AM
That's exactly right Oilcan.  Rebs don't magically fall into your hands.

Does MU have a rebounder on their radar for next year?  It's too bad Wrightsil got injured.  I don't think we ever really got to see what he could do our there.   I expect Gold to improve a lot over his career at MU. 
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: brewcity77 on January 18, 2023, 07:16:35 AM
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 18, 2023, 07:10:53 AM
That's exactly right Oilcan.  Rebs don't magically fall into your hands.

Does MU have a rebounder on their radar for next year?  It's top bad Wrightsil got injured.  I don't think we ever really got to see what he could do our there.   I expect Gold to improve a lot over his career at MU.

Barring multiple transfers, we know the exact roster for next year. And considering we have 13 scholarship players and 14 committed, we know there will be one going out that doesn't allow anyone to come in.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: tower912 on January 18, 2023, 07:17:01 AM
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 18, 2023, 07:10:53 AM
That's exactly right Oilcan.  Rebs don't magically fall into your hands.

Does MU have a rebounder on their radar for next year?

If Amadou, Lowery, or Norman turn into a rebounding machine, then yes.    The roster is set.    The only questions are who isn't going to be here and why. 
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: MuggsyB on January 18, 2023, 07:28:41 AM
Quote from: tower912 on January 18, 2023, 07:17:01 AM
If Amadou, Lowery, or Norman turn into a rebounding machine, then yes.    The roster is set.    The only questions are who isn't going

Clearly we have game in the backcourt.  MU's future is bright, I'd just like one versatile 3/4 that can rebound. 
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: Uncle Rico on January 18, 2023, 07:39:06 AM
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 18, 2023, 07:10:53 AM
That's exactly right Oilcan.  Rebs don't magically fall into your hands.

Does MU have a rebounder on their radar for next year?  It's too bad Wrightsil got injured.  I don't think we ever really got to see what he could do our there.   I expect Gold to improve a lot over his career at MU.

I'm not sure where you can find roster information for next year.  We probably won't know until opening tip next November
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: bilsu on January 18, 2023, 09:14:27 AM
In more than one game, I felt MU had rebound position, but waited for rebound to come to them instead of actively going after it. We did not get the rebound because an opposing player went hard after it.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: MU82 on January 18, 2023, 09:15:04 AM
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 17, 2023, 09:41:27 PM
Personal opinion, I think PC is far better this year than they were last year. Last year's team lucked into a lot of results and wasn't as good as their asterisked Big East title and tourney run would indicate in retrospect. Hopkins is a legit NBA player and has maybe the best claim to BEPOY at this point. Carter was a great add and he's excellent on both ends. Croswell is better than Watson. Last year, they would've folded at Creighton, but they fought back in that game and made it close even though they ultimately fell. I think this league is a 3-team race between X, PC, and us. Winning tomorrow would go a long way toward giving us a shot at a share of that title.

Agree with your personal opinion, brew, which I guess makes it my personal opinion too. Hopkins is a beast, one of the two best transfers (Boum being the other) to hit the Big East this season.

Looking forward to beating them tonight.
Title: Re: We Must Clean the Glass
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on January 18, 2023, 09:19:42 AM
Quote from: MU82 on January 18, 2023, 09:15:04 AM
Agree with your personal opinion, brew, which I guess makes it my personal opinion too. Hopkins is a beast, one of the two best transfers (Boum being the other) to hit the Big East this season.

Looking forward to beating them tonight.

Last I checked, our transfer is the only National Player of the Year.  All jokes aside, I wish Wrightsil was healthy to see what he could bring to this team.
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