In The Athletic today, Seth Davis picks Wednesday's game as one he's "psyched to see":
Providence at Marquette, Wednesday, 9 p.m., CBS Sports Network. The Friars finally lost their first Big East game at Creighton on Saturday. Their vaunted defense failed them as they allowed the Bluejays to shoot 48 percent and outscore them in the paint, 46-32. Marquette has a highly efficient offense, but it lacks interior size. That hurt the Golden Eagles on Sunday when they were out-rebounded 45-32 in an 80-76 loss at Xavier.
He also had this about Jop:
Finally, my CBS colleague Jon Rothstein may not have any hobbies, but he does have some really good ideas from time to time. One of them is the call for a national sixth man of the year award in college basketball. It's odd that this award does not exist given that most conferences have one, as does the NBA. If it helps to get people excited about the idea, here's a list of some of my top candidates to this point: Zakai Zeigler, Tennessee; David Singleton, UCLA; Donovan Clingan, UConn; Sir'Jabari Rice, Texas; David Joplin, Marquette; Jerome Hunter, Xavier. Any others?
Jop? huh?
Quote from: PointWarrior on January 16, 2023, 01:27:20 PM
Jop? huh?
I think as ardent fans we sometimes get too hung up on indiviual plays and don't always view the body of work like national guys do. He's had some really bad plays, but Joplin has been really good as a whole.
10.2 and 3.4 in less than 20 MPG, 4th in scoring despite playing 10-12 min less than those above him. His points per 40 min are actually leading the team and more than a point higher than Kam. Rebounds per 40 min he's second on the team after Oso. He's the team's best 3P shooter by percentage as well as the best FT shooter. His TOs are bad and too high and need to be cleaned up, but as a 6th man to bring a scoring punch off the bench, he's been great.
Quote from: JWags85 on January 16, 2023, 01:46:07 PM
I think as ardent fans we sometimes get too hung up on indiviual plays and don't always view the body of work like national guys do. He's had some really bad plays, but Joplin has been really good as a whole.
10.2 and 3.4 in less than 20 MPG, 4th in scoring despite playing 10-12 min less than those above him. His points per 40 min are actually leading the team and more than a point higher than Kam. Rebounds per 40 min he's second on the team after Oso. He's the team's best 3P shooter by percentage as well as the best FT shooter. His TOs are bad and too high and need to be cleaned up, but as a 6th man to bring a scoring punch off the bench, he's been great.
There just aren't a whole lot of double digit scorers off the bench across the country.
Joplin is a huge part of this teams success. I just think he can be so much better.
Quote from: JWags85 on January 16, 2023, 01:46:07 PM
I think as ardent fans we sometimes get too hung up on indiviual plays and don't always view the body of work like national guys do. He's had some really bad plays, but Joplin has been really good as a whole.
10.2 and 3.4 in less than 20 MPG, 4th in scoring despite playing 10-12 min less than those above him. His points per 40 min are actually leading the team and more than a point higher than Kam. Rebounds per 40 min he's second on the team after Oso. He's the team's best 3P shooter by percentage as well as the best FT shooter. His TOs are bad and too high and need to be cleaned up, but as a 6th man to bring a scoring punch off the bench, he's been great.
Agree 100%. Joplin seems to be the guy who gets the brunt of the criticism, but I think he is dong an excellent job.
Any fan that fails to see the value David Joplin brings to MU simply doesn't know the game. He of course has plenty of room for improvement, especially defensively, but his ceiling is sky high.
Quote from: JWags85 on January 16, 2023, 01:46:07 PM
I think as ardent fans we sometimes get too hung up on indiviual plays and don't always view the body of work like national guys do. He's had some really bad plays, but Joplin has been really good as a whole.
10.2 and 3.4 in less than 20 MPG, 4th in scoring despite playing 10-12 min less than those above him. His points per 40 min are actually leading the team and more than a point higher than Kam. Rebounds per 40 min he's second on the team after Oso. He's the team's best 3P shooter by percentage as well as the best FT shooter. His TOs are bad and too high and need to be cleaned up, but as a 6th man to bring a scoring punch off the bench, he's been great.
His offensive efforts are fine. Defense is a wee bit of a problem though.
What is the definition of a sixth-man?
Remember in 2011 when Buzz started Erik Williams ahead of Jae Crowder because Crowder tended to pick up a dumb foul early in the game? After three or four minutes, Crowder entered the game and played 30 to 35 minutes.
Crowder was BE POY in 2012
Would Crowder have qualified for national sixth-man of the year if it existed?
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on January 16, 2023, 02:24:03 PM
What is the definition of a sixth-man?
Remember in 2011 when Buzz started Erik Williams ahead of Jae Crowder because Crowder tended to pick up a dumb foul early in the game? After three or four minutes, Crowder entered the game and played 30 to 35 minutes.
Crowder was BE POY in 2012
Would Crowder have qualified for national sixth-man of the year if it existed?
The guy who gets less minutes than most starters, but more minutes than others on the bench.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on January 16, 2023, 02:24:03 PM
What is the definition of a sixth-man?
Remember in 2011 when Buzz started Erik Williams ahead of Jae Crowder because Crowder tended to pick up a dumb foul early in the game? After three or four minutes, Crowder entered the game and played 30 to 35 minutes.
Crowder was BE POY in 2012
Would Crowder have qualified for national sixth-man of the year if it existed?
I think in the NBA, you have to come off the bench in more games than you start. At least that's what google states.
I'm not seeing it with Jop yet. The potential is there but he's just not very reliable as of now. Looking forward to see if he can step up into a bigger role as season goes on.
Quote from: Tha Hound on January 16, 2023, 02:32:28 PM
I'm not seeing it with Jop yet. The potential is there but he's just not very reliable as of now. Looking forward to see if he can step up into a bigger role as season goes on.
He is pretty reliable though, that's why he plays so much.
He's good for about 10+ important points each game. Marquette has defensive issues with or without him on the floor.
Against UConn late, it seemed as though Shaka went with Joplin late because Marquette couldn't defend the pick and roll anyways. Might as well put his size and scoring on the floor to go punch for punch when the defense is absent anyways. If the defense is rolling and we have a lead he likely won't be on the floor, but not everything goes as planned.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 16, 2023, 02:41:18 PM
He is pretty reliable though, that's why he plays so much.
He's good for about 10+ important points each game. Marquette has defensive issues with or without him on the floor.
Against UConn late, it seemed as though Shaka went with Joplin late because Marquette couldn't defend the pick and roll anyways. Might as well put his size and scoring on the floor to go punch for punch when the defense is absent anyways. If the defense is rolling and we have a lead he likely won't be on the floor, but not everything goes as planned.
YEP. He's scored under 8 points only twice in 12 games since Thanksgiving, and outside of the 2 game SH/Nova stretch, he's been efficient in scoring in pretty much all those games. He's scored 21 against Purdue, 19 against Baylor, 18 against Providence, 10 against Creighton, and 11 on Sunday, so its not like he's vanishing in big games.
Nobody is saying he doesn't have room for growth, he really does. And he has TONS of upside, but he's doing tons for this team as it is.
Quote from: JWags85 on January 16, 2023, 02:53:35 PM
YEP. He's scored under 8 points only twice in 12 games since Thanksgiving, and outside of the 2 game SH/Nova stretch, he's been efficient in scoring in pretty much all those games. He's scored 21 against Purdue, 19 against Baylor, 18 against Providence, 10 against Creighton, and 11 on Sunday, so its not like he's vanishing in big games.
Nobody is saying he doesn't have room for growth, he really does. And he has TONS of upside, but he's doing tons for this team as it is.
Agreed. I am just critical of him at times because I think he has another level that he's capable of.
Like the old adage, 'If a coach isn't yelling at you then you should be concerned that they've lost you'.
If Scoop isn't critiquing you then you should be concerned that they've given up on you.
David Joplin is a big part of the success they had and is going to major contributor before he is done. No player has frustrated me as much, but the good Joplin is really good. Plus, I think he is a guy that wants to play in big games and have the ball in his hand.
Every time he frustrates me it is uncanny on how he turns it around in short order. If he improves his weaknesses and cleans up sloppy turnovers he is going score a lot of points in a MU uniform.
Jop is a guy who is good but could be great if he works with the coach and learns from him. He has the physical attributes to go to another level. Lets see if he responds. He could be a future BE player of the year at some point. It is up to him.
All things considered, I thought Jop held up defensively against bigger players. Getting switched onto Boum was where I felt he struggled. He doesn't have the foot speed or lateral quickness to hang there, but he can be more than serviceable as a "three" in a 3 guard rotation.
He needs to take to the coaching like Kam did and play within himself
I think Joplin defends the post as well as OMax. The big difference is in space.
OMax, a couple of times recently, has gotten burned leaking out in transition and leaving Oso all alone under the boards. Need to clean that up and secure the rebound first.
Quote from: Class71 on January 16, 2023, 05:19:25 PM
Jop is a guy who is good but could be great if he works with the coach and learns from him. He has the physical attributes to go to another level. Lets see if he responds. He could be a future BE player of the year at some point. It is up to him.
I don't agree with this. He's not athletic enough.
Jop has a ton of upside. If his decision making skill take the seem leap as Kam's, he is going to a real handful for opponents. He's got a powerful build, too.
I am not sure Joplin will be great, but will be a scoring machine in this system. A year from now we should have a good idea on his ceiling. Fluff is right on his athletic upside and not sure that can be improved a great deal. Learning to really maximize his positive skills is probably the best idea.
I trust what I read in the game thread and have no doubt Joplin is terrible and should be barred physically from a basketball court by armed guards across the country
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 16, 2023, 05:31:52 PM
I don't agree with this. He's not athletic enough.
Jae Crowder wasn't crazy athletic, Steve Novak wasn't either. You can be great without elite athleticism.
Quote from: Class71 on January 16, 2023, 05:19:25 PM
Jop is a guy who is good but could be great if he works with the coach and learns from him. He has the physical attributes to go to another level. Lets see if he responds. He could be a future BE player of the year at some point. It is up to him.
Well said. Jop is a great player. Really like how quickly he plugs in when he's put in the game. His offense is so good that it overshadows his rebounding and defense. He has a great attitude, seems very coachable and should
Continue to grow as a Warrior.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 16, 2023, 05:44:30 PM
Jae Crowder wasn't crazy athletic, Steve Novak wasn't either. You can be great without elite athleticism.
Jae Crowder is way more athletic than David Joplin. And Steve Novak did one thing on an elite level. And wasn't BEPOY.
I love Jop. I'm not sure if he's even the best bench player on our team. He's instant offense but his defense is brutal. He has been better as of late and Ross had a rough game against X so he might be taking over the best bench player title soon
Quote from: Tha Hound on January 16, 2023, 02:32:28 PM
I'm not seeing it with Jop yet. The potential is there but he's just not very reliable as of now. Looking forward to see if he can step up into a bigger role as season goes on.
I think if this year's team had next year's Jop we would be rollin'. He is coming along, but to me he seems a year away.
National press: Jop in discussion as BE and National 6th man. Scoop: Sit him.
Scoop knows ball!
Final Four
Good take on Joplin. I have no doubt he will be tough guy to stop next season and expect to see modest improvements on defense and rebounding. I thought Kam had big upside coming into this season as a scorer and Joplin had more upside, IMO.
Like 1 guy Seth Davis? Did he see the 4 or more bankrupt drives to the hoop against X? I like Jop - but he has issues going to the hoop and once he gets the ball, the offense stops more often than not. Some adjustments and his game could be much better.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 16, 2023, 07:45:44 PM
National press: Jop in discussion as BE and National 6th man. Scoop: Sit him.
Scoop knows ball!
Quote from: PointWarrior on January 16, 2023, 09:19:55 PM
Like 1 guy Seth Davis? Did he see the 4 or more bankrupt drives to the hoop against X? I like Jop - but he has issues going to the hoop and once he gets the ball, the offense stops more often than not. Some adjustments and his game could be much better.
OMax was a -14 in the 2nd half and Jop was a +1. That was why Jop was getting the playing time. X was going at Oso and OMax, and Jop was Shaka's answer. In fact, Jop was keeping MU in the game hitting some key shots and free throws. He leads the team in trey % and is 2nd in DReb% just behind Oso for the lead.
Is he developing? Yes, of course which is why he is a 6th man. But to read Scoop...well consider the source.
Jop is an excellent offensive player. He is also one of the two worst defenders on the team.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 16, 2023, 11:29:47 PM
Jop is an excellent offensive player. He is also one of the two worst defenders on the team.
He is coming along, but I can say he was much better than Omax defensively yesterday. When Oso gets in foul trouble, someone else with height needs to step up. More so, when Omax misses and winds up on the floor, it's 5 on 4 on the return break. Not technically a live ball turnover, but essentially one. Gold was getting muscled and didn't see the floor in the 2nd.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 16, 2023, 11:21:15 PM
OMax was a -14 in the 2nd half and Jop was a +1. That was why Jop was getting the playing time. X was going at Oso and OMax, and Jop was Shaka's answer. In fact, Jop was keeping MU in the game hitting some key shots and free throws. He leads the team in trey % and is 2nd in DReb% just behind Oso for the lead.
Is he developing? Yes, of course which is why he is a 6th man. But to read Scoop...well consider the source.
Yes he's developing. That's really all I am saying. He's not likely to be BEPOY because he is limited. And that's fine. Hardly ripping on him.
Joplin has the highest usage on the team (by a good margin) and the worst offensive rating (by a healthly margin). Yes, he scores a lot of points but that is because he takes a ton of shots. He has the worst assist rate, has the worst shooting % on 2's and is 5th on the team in EFG (actually ahead of Kolek and Stevie).
He does a real good job of rebounding on the defensive end and I think that is why he gets more playing time than maybe he deserves as we are so lacking there.
He seems to have been listening to coaches recently as his shots per game have come down a bit and seems to be a bit more selective than he was in the past. Often times he is a black hole for the offense.
Irwin
My biggest frustration with Joplin is when he goes into black hole mode and takes a bad shot or a sloppy turnover. I can live with his defense because the guy can score. He is showing signs of being smarter when he gets the ball on offense and that is encouraging. Overall, I fully believe the kid needs to play a lot of minutes. Aside from helping this year, it should pay dividends next season.
Last year, Morsell and Justin were the ball stoppers on offense. This year, to my eyes, it is Joplin and Sean. First world problem.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 16, 2023, 11:41:26 PM
More so, when Omax misses and winds up on the floor, it's 5 on 4 on the return break. Not technically a live ball turnover, but essentially one.
Yeah he's gotta knock that crap off. He even does it on makes. I don't know if he's that uncoordinated or is trying to get calls, but if it's the latter it aint working.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 16, 2023, 11:41:26 PM
He is coming along, but I can say he was much better than Omax defensively yesterday. When Oso gets in foul trouble, someone else with height needs to step up. More so, when Omax misses and winds up on the floor, it's 5 on 4 on the return break. Not technically a live ball turnover, but essentially one. Gold was getting muscled and didn't see the floor in the 2nd.
Gold's day will come, but he has spacing issues right now. I know at least once and maybe twice in his limited minutes against X, a crafty X dribbler basically used Gold as an additional screener on the PnR.
Quote from: Goose on January 16, 2023, 03:42:35 PM
David Joplin is a big part of the success they had and is going to major contributor before he is done. No player has frustrated me as much, but the good Joplin is really good. Plus, I think he is a guy that wants to play in big games and have the ball in his hand.
Every time he frustrates me it is uncanny on how he turns it around in short order. If he improves his weaknesses and cleans up sloppy turnovers he is going score a lot of points in a MU uniform.
He reminds me of Jamil, sometimes the energy doesn't seem to be there until he makes a basket, and needs to not find himself so lost on D, sometimes he doesn't know who to guard and ends up in no man's land.
Newsie
His getting lost on defensive is the biggest problem to me. He is not a great defender by any stretch, but far better if he knows who he should be guarding on defense.
Joplin is kind of a poor man's Bernard Toone. Ton of talent as a shooter/scorer but sometimes disinterested and often confused on D.
Lenny
A very poor man's BT, but definite similarities. I am sticking with my Dwayne Johnson comp because I am hoping to see him use that body more down low. For a guy with limited jumping ability, his frame and creativity is a big asset in his game.
Quote from: Goose on January 17, 2023, 05:11:02 PM
Lenny
A very poor man's BT, but definite similarities. I am sticking with my Dwayne Johnson comp because I am hoping to see him use that body more down low. For a guy with limited jumping ability, his frame and creativity is a big asset in his game.
Goose
Body type definitely more like DJ. Gifted shooting from the line and long range more like BT. Of course he's nowhere near BT overall, hence the "poor man's reference.
Lenny
BT is an all time top 5-10 favorite of mine, more for personality and style than on court performance. That said, he had big, big time talent. IMO, maybe more upside than many former players that had long pro careers.
Quote from: Goose on January 17, 2023, 06:02:19 PM
Lenny
BT is an all time top 5-10 favorite of mine, more for personality and style than on court performance. That said, he had big, big time talent. IMO, maybe more upside than many former players that had long pro careers.
Goose
Don't disagree. Huge talent but kinda a flake.