Lots of love for what Shaka has built from Rob Dauster and company.
Starts with a segue about the game MU gave Perdue at 35:30-ish and continues into a related Big East Top 4 convo at 40:30.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-field-of-68-after-dark-podcast/id1540628867?i=1000594407893
Lots of love for the culture and foundation of belief that's been built...but still more belief in Providence, UConn or X to take the league.
For easy tweeting - https://twitter.com/thefieldof68/status/1614119733355491328?s=46&t=K9jZ1QoywC7G8vTKbjaPXA
We were picked 9th and still no one thinks we can overcome that to finish at the top of the league. Let's just beat Xavier and Providence in our next two and see where the national thought process is then.
1, Brew.
The media hates MU.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 14, 2023, 08:18:58 AM
The media hates MU.
True ... but the refs hate us even more and always have!
I'm glad to see Marquette get attention, but this whole "they're fun plucky underdogs, Shaka has them believing and playing better than they are" is complete BS from people who can't believe this team is actually better than the 9th place they projected us in the preseason.
Our team fights hard and plays great as a unit, but if you don't see the absolutely elite skills on this team you don't know the game.
Kam Jones is top-5 nationally in scoring at the rim and he's the only player under 6'8" in the top-5. Shot Quality ranks him top-5 in shot selection. He is absurd when it comes to points scored vs expected, by far best in the league.
Tyler and Oso, as Nevada said on Thursday, are the best passes at their positions in the country. These aren't guys that luck into assists. TK is 6th nationally in assist rate and Oso is a unicorn that allows us to play with two point guards through the center.
Stevie and O-Max are elite on ball defenders who cover up our other defensive deficiencies and happen to be highly efficient on offense as well.
Dauster wrote the Big East preview for Field of 68 and picked us 9th, like many others. No one likes to admit they were wrong, but the national media was wrong and it's about time they accept that reality and acknowledge this team is good and its players have elite level talents.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 14, 2023, 07:07:41 PM
I'm glad to see Marquette get attention, but this whole "they're fun plucky underdogs, Shaka has them believing and playing better than they are" is complete BS from people who can't believe this team is actually better than the 9th place they projected us in the preseason.
Our team fights hard and plays great as a unit, but if you don't see the absolutely elite skills on this team you don't know the game.
Kam Jones is top-5 nationally in scoring at the rim and he's the only player under 6'8" in the top-5. Shot Quality ranks him top-5 in shot selection. He is absurd when it comes to points scored vs expected, by far best in the league.
Tyler and Oso, as Nevada said on Thursday, are the best passes at their positions in the country. These aren't guys that luck into assists. TK is 6th nationally in assist rate and Oso is a unicorn that allows us to play with two point guards through the center.
Stevie and O-Max are elite on ball defenders who cover up our other defensive deficiencies and happen to be highly efficient on offense as well.
Dauster wrote the Big East preview for Field of 68 and picked us 9th, like many others. No one likes to admit they were wrong, but the national media was wrong and it's about time they accept that reality and acknowledge this team is good and its players have elite level talents.
Not just the National media. Some scoopers though we were lacking in the talent department.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 14, 2023, 08:15:44 PM
Not just the National media. Some scoopers though we were lacking in the talent department.
I believe you can win without talent, and this staff would be capable of doing so, but this team absolutely has loads of it. The question was how quickly could they develop and that seems to have been answered through 18 games.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 14, 2023, 07:07:41 PM
I'm glad to see Marquette get attention, but this whole "they're fun plucky underdogs, Shaka has them believing and playing better than they are" is complete BS from people who can't believe this team is actually better than the 9th place they projected us in the preseason.
Our team fights hard and plays great as a unit, but if you don't see the absolutely elite skills on this team you don't know the game.
Kam Jones is top-5 nationally in scoring at the rim and he's the only player under 6'8" in the top-5. Shot Quality ranks him top-5 in shot selection. He is absurd when it comes to points scored vs expected, by far best in the league.
Tyler and Oso, as Nevada said on Thursday, are the best passes at their positions in the country. These aren't guys that luck into assists. TK is 6th nationally in assist rate and Oso is a unicorn that allows us to play with two point guards through the center.
Stevie and O-Max are elite on ball defenders who cover up our other defensive deficiencies and happen to be highly efficient on offense as well.
Dauster wrote the Big East preview for Field of 68 and picked us 9th, like many others. No one likes to admit they were wrong, but the national media was wrong and it's about time they accept that reality and acknowledge this team is good and its players have elite level talents.
Reading this post, I can feel Bree hyperventilating :)
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 14, 2023, 08:15:44 PM
Not just the National media. Some scoopers though we were lacking in the talent department.
MU sucks
100% Brew.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 14, 2023, 08:15:44 PM
Not just the National media. Some scoopers though we were lacking in the talent department.
...and Big East Coaches, some who ranked us less than ninth.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 14, 2023, 07:07:41 PM
I'm glad to see Marquette get attention, but this whole "they're fun plucky underdogs, Shaka has them believing and playing better than they are" is complete BS from people who can't believe this team is actually better than the 9th place they projected us in the preseason.
Our team fights hard and plays great as a unit, but if you don't see the absolutely elite skills on this team you don't know the game.
Kam Jones is top-5 nationally in scoring at the rim and he's the only player under 6'8" in the top-5. Shot Quality ranks him top-5 in shot selection. He is absurd when it comes to points scored vs expected, by far best in the league.
Tyler and Oso, as Nevada said on Thursday, are the best passes at their positions in the country. These aren't guys that luck into assists. TK is 6th nationally in assist rate and Oso is a unicorn that allows us to play with two point guards through the center.
Stevie and O-Max are elite on ball defenders who cover up our other defensive deficiencies and happen to be highly efficient on offense as well.
Dauster wrote the Big East preview for Field of 68 and picked us 9th, like many others. No one likes to admit they were wrong, but the national media was wrong and it's about time they accept that reality and acknowledge this team is good and its players have elite level talents.
I think mich of it is these guys still projection off the sum of HS rankings rather than realizing the potential for player development and effective coaching. Shaka has excelled both in getting players to exceed their potential as individuals and as a unit
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on January 14, 2023, 08:17:43 PM
I believe you can win without talent, and this staff would be capable of doing so, but this team absolutely has loads of it. The question was how quickly could they develop and that seems to have been answered through 18 games.
I believe you mean win without "projected" talent The rating "experts" have been wrong once or twice ;)
Then there is that look into a kids heart and potential for growth. Connecting with the right people. As I mentioned in a previous post, many of Bo Ryan's 4 & 5 * recruits spun their wheels at best with him
Quote from: muwarrior69 on January 15, 2023, 06:41:07 AM
...and Big East Coaches, some who ranked us less than ninth.
Not so fast 69.
You were the guy who was so worried about not only the BE coaches' poll but national polls as well. Glad to see you come around, but you are late to the party.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 14, 2023, 07:07:41 PM
I'm glad to see Marquette get attention, but this whole "they're fun plucky underdogs, Shaka has them believing and playing better than they are" is complete BS from people who can't believe this team is actually better than the 9th place they projected us in the preseason.
Our team fights hard and plays great as a unit, but if you don't see the absolutely elite skills on this team you don't know the game.
Kam Jones is top-5 nationally in scoring at the rim and he's the only player under 6'8" in the top-5. Shot Quality ranks him top-5 in shot selection. He is absurd when it comes to points scored vs expected, by far best in the league.
Tyler and Oso, as Nevada said on Thursday, are the best passes at their positions in the country. These aren't guys that luck into assists. TK is 6th nationally in assist rate and Oso is a unicorn that allows us to play with two point guards through the center.
Stevie and O-Max are elite on ball defenders who cover up our other defensive deficiencies and happen to be highly efficient on offense as well.
Dauster wrote the Big East preview for Field of 68 and picked us 9th, like many others. No one likes to admit they were wrong, but the national media was wrong and it's about time they accept that reality and acknowledge this team is good and its players have elite level talents.
I don't know Brew. Fair or unfair, when we talk about "elite talent" in college basketball, all people mean is "5-stars and high 4-stars coming out of high school" and maybe also "highly coveted transfers in the portal". We don't have any of those on our team. I think mentioning that we don't have elite talent is differentiating Shaka from coaches who win by recruiting as many highly ranked high school kids and top portal targets as they can. Taking it a step further, it's not like any of our players were instant stars when they got to college. Oso, nothing his frehsman year. Omax, nothing his freshman year. Kolek, A10 Frosh of the Year but nothing like what we've seen him be here. Kam, one dimensional 6th man for a 9 seed. Stevie, back of rotation player for a 9 seed. Jop, very back of rotation player for a 9 seed. Shaka himself said this team is "made up of 9th place parts". Shaka deserves credit for identifying and developing unrecognized potential.
As for them believing more in UConn, X, or the Dence to win the league, they've earned their way into the converation too by having great seasons so far....but f*ck 'em
Why doesn't the national media care as much about my team as I do ?
Quote from: panda on January 15, 2023, 08:29:06 AM
Why doesn't the national media care as much about my team as I do ?
Because they hate MU
Quote from: panda on January 15, 2023, 08:29:06 AM
Why doesn't the national media care as much about my team as I do ?
East coast bias
Quote from: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on January 15, 2023, 08:25:52 AM
I don't know Brew. Fair or unfair, when we talk about "elite talent" in college basketball, all people mean is "5-stars and high 4-stars coming out of high school" and maybe also "highly coveted transfers in the portal". We don't have any of those on our team. I think mentioning that we don't have elite talent is differentiating Shaka from coaches who win by recruiting as many highly ranked high school kids and top portal targets as they can. Taking it a step further, it's not like any of our players were instant stars when they got to college. Oso, nothing his frehsman year. Omax, nothing his freshman year. Kolek, A10 Frosh of the Year but nothing like what we've seen him be here. Kam, one dimensional 6th man for a 9 seed. Stevie, back of rotation player for a 9 seed. Jop, very back of rotation player for a 9 seed. Shaka himself said this team is "made up of 9th place parts". Shaka deserves credit for identifying and developing unrecognized potential.
As for them believing more in UConn, X, or the Dence to win the league, they've earned their way into the converation too by having great seasons so far....but f*ck 'em
That is what they look at, but it's a stupid view of elite talent. Don't think about what they were coming in, think about what they would be going out. If any of our starters transferred, they would likely be top-10 on every "hot transfer" list. If Jop, Chase, or Sean transferred, high-majors would be chasing all of them.
When you see the unicorn article about Oso, when Dauster says Kolek is the best point guard in the Big East, when Kam scores the way that he does, those players who came in unsung become elite. It would be like saying Zach Edey isn't an elite player because of his high school rating. It's just silly, myopic, and wrong.
The narrative may indeed be lazy and self serving for analysts and coaches who didn't see the magic brewing with Shaka, Nevada Smith and everyone at the Al.
There's an interesting contrast between the conversations around Kentucky's underperformance under Calipari this year and the perceived over performance by Shaka's team at MU.
The "fire Cal" fans at UK are shocked that the top ranked individual players they've added around the NPOY aren't finding roles that mesh well enough to play as a team and win.
Shaka's team at MU is over performing expectations because - based on the measurable (recruiting service stars) that was being considered - this team was seen as less proven than last year's.
Some of you guys saw it very early. Kudos. Many of us wanted to believe but weren't sure (I fit here). I think it's fair for the National Media to have been skeptical early. It's not like the success Shaka is having here is 100% analogous to what he did at Texas. I'm glad to see them coming around.
nycwarrior
I think it has a lot to do with laziness and going with chalk. I have said numerous times, but if Oso, Kolek and Omax were incoming transfers vs. returning the guys I believe the MU fanbase would have been jacked after watching their highlights from last season. Unfortunately, some or many remembered Feb/March and not the upside these guys showed last season.
I got mocked up until 6-7 games ago about my saying over and over again that Omax is an NBA talent. Oso should real upside last season and Kolek is a winner on top of being an outstanding talent. In addition, we saw enough of the Shaka system to know what the future looked like and what the potential could be.
It's laziness sure. But these guys aren't paid to understand the rosters of all these teams pre-season and accurately predict where they will fall. They just look at who left and who is coming in and draw conclusions accordingly.
And that's fine. IMO there isn't anything less compelling from a sports media perspective than preseason predictions.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 15, 2023, 10:41:36 AM
It's laziness sure. But these guys aren't paid to understand the rosters of all these teams pre-season and accurately predict where they will fall. They just look at who left and who is coming in and draw conclusions accordingly.
And that's fine. IMO there isn't anything less compelling from a sports media perspective than preseason predictions.
Field of 68 put out The Almanac this year, which was supposed to do just that. It was based on the type of preseason work the Three Man Weave (Jim Root, Ky McKeown, and Matt Cox) crew put out on a yearly basis. The difference was that 3MW did dig into all those rosters deep and knew all the teams, all the leagues, and all the styles. Their preseason work was amazing and incredibly deep. In The Almanac, the leagues done by 3MW alumni were just as good as ever, but many of the high-major leagues were taken on by national types like Dauster and Goodman, and there simply wasn't the analytical depth.
This is much of my disappointment with Fo68. They took over what had been an unbelievably deep product and didn't do as good of a job. I understand that to talk to all the coaches nationally, guys like Dauster and Goodman have the cachet to get a Bill Self, John Calipari, or Tom Izzo on the phone while Jim Root might not be able to, but that loss of analytical depth really hurt the end product.
It's also why I prefer 3MW's podcast, where they've been talking for weeks about how awesome our offense is and what a joy it is to watch. The national people that pay attention across the board do see what we are, it's the lazy takes from people who are paid to cover the entirety of the sport that irritate me.
I want Kentucky's 5* roster. ;D
Y'all need to relax
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 15, 2023, 09:16:08 AM
That is what they look at, but it's a stupid view of elite talent. Don't think about what they were coming in, think about what they would be going out. If any of our starters transferred, they would likely be top-10 on every "hot transfer" list. If Jop, Chase, or Sean transferred, high-majors would be chasing all of them.
When you see the unicorn article about Oso, when Dauster says Kolek is the best point guard in the Big East, when Kam scores the way that he does, those players who came in unsung become elite. It would be like saying Zach Edey isn't an elite player because of his high school rating. It's just silly, myopic, and wrong.
Honestly it sounds like a vocab issue. We need a word to describe players who arrive as high level players to differentiate them from players who develop into high level players after they arrive on campus. For better or worse, the word we use is talent. There are probably better word
Easy to see why the MU fanbase is the butt of every major basketball podcast's jokes. Skin as thin as I've ever seen.
Indeed.
Quote from: withoutbias on January 15, 2023, 04:32:14 PM
Easy to see why the MU fanbase is the butt of every major basketball podcast's jokes. Skin as thin as I've ever seen.
Marquette isn't talked about by any major podcasts.