MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Jockey on October 25, 2022, 03:02:20 PM
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Is Bill Belichick still relevant? And by that I mean does he still matter anymore or is he in the latter years Chuck Noll/Tom Landry mode.
It hard to argue with the numbers when assessing the GOAT of NFL coaching. But he is getting near 10 years coaching sans Tom Brady in the NFL and has never been a SB contender in that situation.
Was he a by product of Brady's greatness?
Where do you think he currently stands.
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He's the GOAT.
No coach, no matter how good, regularly contends in the current iteration of the NFL without good-to great QB play. And what Belichick has had the past three years hasn't been that.
But he has made the playoffs with rookie Mac Jones and Vinny Testaverde. And posted an 11-win season with Matt Cassel.
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He brought back Matt Patricia.
He's done.
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He's the GOAT.
No coach, no matter how good, regularly contends in the current iteration of the NFL without good-to great QB play. And what Belichick has had the past three years hasn't been that.
But he has made the playoffs with rookie Mac Jones and washed up Vinny Testaverde. And posted an 11-win season with Matt Cassel.
Agreed. Obviously, close to the end for a great career but he is still relevant. I think his (richly deserved) arrogance is catching up to him with his co-offensive coordinators whom neither has held the position before, but are 'his guys'.
The guy is a jerk and a prick, but I'd have him as my coach any day.
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Is Bill Belichick still relevant? And by that I mean does he still matter anymore or is he in the latter years Chuck Noll/Tom Landry mode.
It hard to argue with the numbers when assessing the GOAT of NFL coaching. But he is getting near 10 years coaching sans Tom Brady in the NFL and has never been a SB contender in that situation.
Was he a by product of Brady's greatness?
Where do you think he currently stands.
People also forget those teams also had HOF talent all over the defense. One of the 2-3 best TEs of all time. Reliable WRs who, while not HOF caliber, were WAY beyond who Jones and Newton were throwing to.
Brady doesn't get credit for assembling those rosters, Belichik does. Just like he also deserves some blame for the rosters as they are constructed the last few years and their drop in production. I think he could still be a great coach, but he's probably a bit too old to be pulling double duty as coach/GM.
I can't stand the dude but he's the best to ever do it. And if you took me back to 2001 and asked me to choose between Brady or BB for the next decade or two, I'm choosing BB every time.
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People also forget those teams also had HOF talent all over the defense. One of the 2-3 best TEs of all time. Reliable WRs who, while not HOF caliber, were WAY beyond who Jones and Newton were throwing to.
Brady doesn't get credit for assembling those rosters, Belichik does. Just like he also deserves some blame for the rosters as they are constructed the last few years and their drop in production. I think he could still be a great coach, but he's probably a bit too old to be pulling double duty as coach/GM.
I can't stand the dude but he's the best to ever do it. And if you took me back to 2001 and asked me to choose between Brady or BB for the next decade or two, I'm choosing BB every time.
There is no doubt that BB made moves that Ted Thompson was afraid to make. Those moves made a difference.
I disagree over your Brady or Belichick choice. Belichick was a great architect (and coach), but if you use substandard pieces, you still end up with crap.
Incidentally, I started this thread because of his awful job last night. It was like he never even entertained the thought that Fields might run the ball. He also very seldom had a spy when Fields did straight drop backs. That was why I invoked latter days Noll and Landry.
His QB decision was curious as well. He said he planned it that way all week, yet some of the offensive players expressed surprise after the game. Coaches can and do make mistakes even when they have great players. The mistakes are much more glaring without the top-flight talent.
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Is Bill Belichick still relevant? And by that I mean does he still matter anymore or is he in the latter years Chuck Noll/Tom Landry mode.
It hard to argue with the numbers when assessing the GOAT of NFL coaching. But he is getting near 10 years coaching sans Tom Brady in the NFL and has never been a SB contender in that situation.
Was he a by product of Brady's greatness?
Where do you think he currently stands.
I’d say he’s the best to do it but will listen to arguments for others. Many teams have had great QBs playing at a high level for 10-15 years in the FA era and only win 1. To do it 6 times, I have a hard time believing we see that again in our lifetimes.
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Career NFL record without Tom Brady at quarterback: 74-82. Also wants to know if you have a dollar.
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Career NFL record without Tom Brady at quarterback: 74-82. Also wants to know if you have a dollar.
Most great coaches had great quarterbacks.
Anyway, I am still in the Bill Walsh camp cause he just had such nice hair.
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Career NFL record without Tom Brady at quarterback: 74-82. Also wants to know if you have a dollar.
I suppose if that’s a criteria, then I’d say Joe Gibbs was a better coach? Tom Landry?
Belichick went 11-5 with Matt Cassell, made the ‘94 Wild Card with Vinny Testaverde and won a playoff with Cleveland and was a key assistant for the Giants in the 80’s.
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I’d probably have Parcells, Walsh, and Belichick as my top 3 I some order. Several others come real close.
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Career NFL record without Tom Brady at quarterback: 74-82. Also wants to know if you have a dollar.
Bill Walsh was 17-23-1 without Joe Montana.
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Id throw Chuck Noll in the mix. Bradshaw was not that good of a QB
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Id throw Chuck Noll in the mix. Bradshaw was not that good of a QB
I thought about Noll. The team evolved during the 70’s and opened it up a bit more towards the end of the decade. The offense in ‘79 was pretty prolific. The stretch from 85-88 was pretty bad but he had them back in the playoffs in ‘89 behind Bubby Brister. The ‘84 team made the AFC Championship game with Mark Malone and David Woodley starting 9 and 7 games respectively. They were also the only team to beat the 49ers that year.
They were also a team that were heavily involved in steroids in the 70’s, probably more than any other franchise. I’d put him ahead of all his contemporaries of the 70’s
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If Detroit had hired him, he would have been fired after 4 years never to be heard from again. Like all the rest.
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I’d probably have Parcells, Walsh, and Belichick as my top 3 I some order. Several others come real close.
Ditka and mini Ditka?
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Don Shula reached Super Bowls with 4 Hall of Fame QBs ... and also with David Woodley. He won running the ball down people's throats with Csonka, and turned right around and orchestrated an all-time air show with Marino. He built one of the great defenses and offensive lines in the early to mid '70s, and then a decade later built another of the great offensive lines. He has the all-time regular-season wins record that will not be easily broken, and he presided over the only undefeated, untied championship season in the history of American major league sports.
But he did win only 2 Super Bowls in 3 decades of coaching, managed to lose SB3 as the bazillion-point favorite, and only made one Super Bowl with Marino. He's in the conversation as one of the greats, but not quite greatest ever.
Back to Belichick ...
He is the one who makes the final personnel calls for the Patriots. If his team now doesn't have enough talent, that's on him. It's like saying of a college coach, "He's a great coach but not that great a recruiter. He'd win more if he had better talent." But it's his job to recruit the talent. And it's Belichick's job to recruit the talent for the Patriots.
Bringing in the "right" players is something Belichick and his underlings have been great at, and they very well might be great at it again one day. But I don't give him a pass that he doesn't have a QB he can win enough with now. When most observers thought last year that Jones was gonna be that QB, Belichick got tons of credit for drafting him and coaching him up. If Jones turns out to be a bust ... well, that's on Belichick, too.
There was a conversation in another thread about "mediocre." Well, since Brady left, Belichick's Patriots are 20-20. THAT'S mediocrity.
Oh, and I'm quite sure he was lying about his QB "plan" in yesterday's game. The players' reaction said as much. Not that it really matters.
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He is the one who makes the final personnel calls for the Patriots. If his team now doesn't have enough talent, that's on him. It's like saying of a college coach, "He's a great coach but not that great a recruiter. He'd win more if he had better talent." But it's his job to recruit the talent. And it's Belichick's job to recruit the talent for the Patriots.
That was said by many on this board about Wojo. As a mostly ProJo guy, it even drove me crazy when people stated Wojo was doing the best he could with below average talent.
But back to Belichick....
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Back to Belichick ...
He is the one who makes the final personnel calls for the Patriots. If his team now doesn't have enough talent, that's on him. It's like saying of a college coach, "He's a great coach but not that great a recruiter. He'd win more if he had better talent." But it's his job to recruit the talent. And it's Belichick's job to recruit the talent for the Patriots.
This may be true, but in a coaching discussion, you can't judge Belichick by personnel decisions.
The college coach analogy doesn't hold up. Recruiting is a part of the job description for every single college football coach. Drafting and free agency are not a standard part of an NFL coach's job description, and only a few NFL coaches have much influence over personnel decisions. And none of them have as much power as Belichick.
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This may be true, but in a coaching discussion, you can't judge Belichick by personnel decisions.
The college coach analogy doesn't hold up. Recruiting is a part of the job description for every single college football coach. Drafting and free agency are not a standard part of an NFL coach's job description, and only a few NFL coaches have much influence over personnel decisions. And none of them have as much power as Belichick.
Of course people can judge Belichick's coaching by his personnel decisions -- his personnel decisions and his coaching are intertwined. If you choose not to, that is your prerogative.
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Pretty damning article here.
https://sports.yahoo.com/forget-the-mac-jones-interception-conspiracy-bill-belichick-has-bungled-the-patriots-qb-situation-201728202.html