MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MU Fan in Connecticut on October 16, 2022, 10:52:01 AM
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So this story this morning. Was not aware their exemption ended.
Why Ivy League schools could award athletic scholarships in the future
David Borges
Oct. 16, 2022
https://www.ctinsider.com/college/article/Could-athletic-scholarships-be-coming-to-Ivy-17507200.php
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Big difference between "can" and "will".
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This would help level the playing field between the Ivy League and UW-Madison (if only in sports). I'm not going to act goofy and predict that Harvard could ever be Madison, but the folks in Cambridge can dream to truly be the UW-Madison of the East. ;D
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This would help level the playing field between the Ivy League and UW-Madison (if only in sports). I'm not going to act goofy and predict that Harvard could ever be Madison, but the folks in Cambridge can dream to truly be the UW-Madison of the East. ;D
If Harvard plays the NIL game they will get the top 10 players every year.
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The Ivy aid model is actually advantageous in equivalency sports like Men’s Soccer and Baseball. It is not uncommon for them to get more in need based aid than they could be offered at a scholarship school limited to 9.9 scholarships in MSOC or 11.7 in BASE for the whole team.
And cry me a river, Brandon Sherrod. He chose Yale, got a nearly free degree from Yale he may not have had access too if not for basketball abilities, has access to employment networks 99% of college grads will never know (and even more than most Ivy grads graduating from Choat), and he’s complaining about having some student loans. He should have chosen Fairfield or Central Connecticut State).:He certainly mastered the Ivy sense of entitlement. ::) ::)
My guess is he wouldn’t have been able to redshirt as a senior and keep his scholarship to travel the world singing acapella as a Whiffenpoof.
But,” he noted, “I always thought about what it would be like if I didn’t have any debt coming out of school. I think it would have been really nice to have started with a clean slate, and still having an Ivy League degree. And going out and choosing whatever career I want to choose.”
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If Harvard plays the NIL game they will get the top 10 players every year.
They still have to get them in and meet the Ivy Index, which was increased about 10 years ago due Harvard’s basketball recruiting and lowering of academic credentials.
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The Ivy aid model is actually advantageous in equivalency sports like Men’s Soccer and Baseball. It is not uncommon for them to get more in need based aid than they could be offered at a scholarship school limited to 9.9 scholarships in MSOC or 11.7 in BASE for the whole team.
And cry me a river, Brandon Sherrod. He chose Yale, got a nearly free degree from Yale he may not have had access too if not for basketball abilities, has access to employment networks 99% of college grads will never know (and even more than most Ivy grads graduating from Choat), and he’s complaining about having some student loans. He should have chosen Fairfield or Central Connecticut State).:He certainly mastered the Ivy sense of entitlement. ::) ::)
But,” he noted, “I always thought about what it would be like if I didn’t have any debt coming out of school. I think it would have been really nice to have started with a clean slate, and still having an Ivy League degree. And going out and choosing whatever career I want to choose.”
Yeah, what a jerk (who now runs free clinics for kids).
He should know that the Ivies are for rich people who get in as “legacies” and don’t need aid.
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He should know that the Ivies are for rich people who get in as “legacies” and don’t need aid.
Notre Dame admits more legacies than Cornell.
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Notre Dame admits more legacies than Cornell.
Good to know.
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Good to know.
A better point is that while Ivy schools admit fewer legacies that we think, their acceptance rate is considerably better than the 5-10% number overall. But to be fair, a number of special interest groups fare better than a 10% accept rate, including athletes.
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I know someone who went to an Ivy League School. Was accepted into 4 very good schools and denied by 4 very good schools. One of the schools that denied her was Wash U. The family allegedly knew some people who have some knowledge of the acceptance process at Wash U and they were told that if they get students who are almost "overqualified" and know there's little chance they would choose Wash U they will deny them to keep their number down on how many people turn down their acceptance. Is that actually a thing schools do?
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I know someone who went to an Ivy League School. Was accepted into 4 very good schools and denied by 4 very good schools. One of the schools that denied her was Wash U. The family allegedly knew some people who have some knowledge of the acceptance process at Wash U and they were told that if they get students who are almost "overqualified" and know there's little chance they would choose Wash U they will deny them to keep their number down on how many people turn down their acceptance. Is that actually a thing schools do?
Yes it keeps school rating up. There has been suggestions MU do same, MU is a very popular safety school in that regard.
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A better point is that while Ivy schools admit fewer legacies that we think, their acceptance rate is considerably better than the 5-10% number overall. But to be fair, a number of special interest groups fare better than a 10% accept rate, including athletes.
Also good to know.
Curious where you get your stats on legacy admissions.
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The Ivy aid model is actually advantageous in equivalency sports like Men’s Soccer and Baseball. It is not uncommon for them to get more in need based aid than they could be offered at a scholarship school limited to 9.9 scholarships in MSOC or 11.7 in BASE for the whole team.
And cry me a river, Brandon Sherrod. He chose Yale, got a nearly free degree from Yale he may not have had access too if not for basketball abilities, has access to employment networks 99% of college grads will never know (and even more than most Ivy grads graduating from Choat), and he’s complaining about having some student loans. He should have chosen Fairfield or Central Connecticut State).:He certainly mastered the Ivy sense of entitlement. ::) ::)
My guess is he wouldn’t have been able to redshirt as a senior and keep his scholarship to travel the world singing acapella as a Whiffenpoof.
But,” he noted, “I always thought about what it would be like if I didn’t have any debt coming out of school. I think it would have been really nice to have started with a clean slate, and still having an Ivy League degree. And going out and choosing whatever career I want to choose.”
I started with a clean slate because the cost of college was affordable for my working class parents to pay for a degree that cost less and had more purchasing power than the same high priced degree today. Some parents, though they want their children highly educated, are asking is college worth the cost today? There are careers to choose from without going into debt.
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Yeah, what a jerk (who now runs free clinics for kids).
He should know that the Ivies are for rich people who get in as “legacies” and don’t need aid.
If he’s running free clinics (when not playing pro basketball abroad, an playing in the TBT) then everything worked out fir him despite having to take our a few thousand in loans.
Only MU82 Would feel sorry for a Chote and Yale grad and think a guy like that got a raw deal. ::)
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If he’s running free clinics (when not playing pro basketball abroad, an playing in the TBT) then everything worked out fir him despite having to take our a few thousand in loans.
Only MU82 Would feel sorry for a Chote and Yale grad and think a guy like that got a raw deal. ::)
Who said anything about feeling sorry for anybody?
Find another strawman, chicosjr.
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Notre Dame admits more legacies than Cornell.
There is admission of kids designated as “legacies” who can simply be someone whose sibling is a current student or parents are graduates and still through the regular admission process, and automatically admitting someone based solely on their legacy standing and donor history. Not only do Ivy schools send the big dollar/powerful connection legacy applicants through a separate admission process (see: Jared Kuschner) but once in they are protected academically and basically guaranteed to graduate with honors.
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Who said anything about feeling sorry for anybody?
Find another strawman, chicosjr.
Says the the old man who is king of the straw man.
Obsession…
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Says the the old man who is king of the straw man.
Obsession…
Don't you have some books to ban?
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The Ivy aid model is actually advantageous in equivalency sports like Men’s Soccer and Baseball. It is not uncommon for them to get more in need based aid than they could be offered at a scholarship school limited to 9.9 scholarships in MSOC or 11.7 in BASE for the whole team.
And cry me a river, Brandon Sherrod. He chose Yale, got a nearly free degree from Yale he may not have had access too if not for basketball abilities, has access to employment networks 99% of college grads will never know (and even more than most Ivy grads graduating from Choat), and he’s complaining about having some student loans. He should have chosen Fairfield or Central Connecticut State).:He certainly mastered the Ivy sense of entitlement. ::) ::)
My guess is he wouldn’t have been able to redshirt as a senior and keep his scholarship to travel the world singing acapella as a Whiffenpoof.
But,” he noted, “I always thought about what it would be like if I didn’t have any debt coming out of school. I think it would have been really nice to have started with a clean slate, and still having an Ivy League degree. And going out and choosing whatever career I want to choose.”
He hardly sounds entitled. He admits he received a great education, wonders what it would have been like had he went elsewhere, and is glad that future Yale students may get athletic scholarships.
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If he’s running free clinics (when not playing pro basketball abroad, an playing in the TBT) then everything worked out fir him despite having to take our a few thousand in loans.
Only MU82 Would feel sorry for a Chote and Yale grad and think a guy like that got a raw deal. ::)
Sorry to be a jerk but it is Choate was in same conference and competed against them '76-'79. Complete name is Choate Rosemary Hall, sounds soft so they go by Choate.
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I know someone who went to an Ivy League School. Was accepted into 4 very good schools and denied by 4 very good schools. One of the schools that denied her was Wash U. The family allegedly knew some people who have some knowledge of the acceptance process at Wash U and they were told that if they get students who are almost "overqualified" and know there's little chance they would choose Wash U they will deny them to keep their number down on how many people turn down their acceptance. Is that actually a thing schools do?
Yes, it is. My son was accepted to UPenn (he is a freshman there) and waitlisted at Michigan. He was denied at others (Stanford, MIT, USC). Michigan asked him to send an additional essay saying he really wanted to go there before they would move him along in the process. His roommate at Penn is a NYC, boarding school kid, and a legacy. It’s definitely a massaging of the numbers.
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“ Ivy League schools boast endowments ranging from $7 billion to $54 billion.”
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His roommate at Penn is a NYC, boarding school kid, and a legacy. It’s definitely a massaging of the numbers.
Many of the same people who are outraged about colleges improving their diversity by admitting intelligent minority students who might not qualify by standardized tests seem to have absolutely no problem with legacies getting in, whether they are qualified or not.
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'Legacies'. See: Bronny James and Nike.
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Many of the same people who are outraged about colleges improving their diversity by admitting intelligent minority students who might not qualify by standardized tests seem to have absolutely no problem with legacies getting in, whether they are qualified or not.
I’ve had conversations with family about this mostly related to race and gender as my son was getting rejected from top schools. My response is simple, he will find his place, he has limitless options, wherever he lands he will likely succeed, after college he will likely succeed. I add, not everyone has those same givens, I have no problem with schools constructing their classes with students from many parts of many spectrums. Occasionally, I will add that what they are really saying is a Black person is taking my son’s spot. That usually starts the worthwhile part of the convo.
I hadn’t thought much about legacy students until my son was “competing” with them. It is a real situation and something that doesn’t bother me too much. I get how the world works, money. If that money is used to create a class of students wildly different from my son, that is exactly what he and our family wanted for him.
I will say, this years Penn class is somewhere around 55% people who identify as non-white, 56% people who were assigned female at birth, and 49% applied early decision, which my son did not. I still can’t believe he was accepted, and he absolutely found his place. His buddy in high school who had everything my son had academically without any of the other advantages, was accepted at all his top schools and is at MIT. I couldn’t be more proud of both of them.
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I’ve had conversations with family about this mostly related to race and gender as my son was getting rejected from top schools. My response is simple, he will find his place, he has limitless options, wherever he lands he will likely succeed, after college he will likely succeed. I add, not everyone has those same givens, I have no problem with schools constructing their classes with students from many parts of many spectrums. Occasionally, I will add that what they are really saying is a Black person is taking my son’s spot. That usually starts the worthwhile part of the convo.
I hadn’t thought much about legacy students until my son was “competing” with them. It is a real situation and something that doesn’t bother me too much. I get how the world works, money. If that money is used to create a class of students wildly different from my son, that is exactly what he and our family wanted for him.
I will say, this years Penn class is somewhere around 55% people who identify as non-white, 56% people who were assigned female at birth, and 49% applied early decision, which my son did not. I still can’t believe he was accepted, and he absolutely found his place. His buddy in high school who had everything my son had academically without any of the other advantages, was accepted at all his top schools and is at MIT. I couldn’t be more proud of both of them.
Ah yes. Those black people always getting opportunities that the white people in this country could never dream of getting, taking up all the opportunities from us. How unfairly white people are treated in this country.
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I will say, this years Penn class is somewhere around 55% people who identify as non-white, 56% people who were assigned female at birth,
Just to add some context for these numbers, nationally 49.4% of college students identify as non-white and and 59.5% are female (I don't know if that stat means assigned female at birth or how students identify). So your son's class is about 5.6% more racially diverse and about 3.5% less female dominated than the national average.
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Just to add some context for these numbers, nationally 49.4% of college students identify as non-white and and 59.5% are female (I don't know if that stat means assigned female at birth or how students identify). So your son's class is about 5.6% more racially diverse and about 3.5% less female dominated than the national average.
Appreciate the info and context. He is an electrical engineering major and computer science/Spanish minor. Anecdotally, my wife and I were struck by the number of non-white students at his engineering specific gatherings during move in and the number of females living in the same wing of his dorm. Marquette wasn’t like that for me, which I think is why it struck me, and it also made him very happy. He said from the jump, I want to go to the most the most challenging school I can, with the most racially diverse people I can, in a world class city. Of course, the Ivies are filled with rich, white, males, but I do applaud Penn for making it appear that they are invested in first gen, minority, socially and financially diverse students. The data shows they are, let’s hope it continues.
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Appreciate the info and context. He is an electrical engineering major and computer science/Spanish minor. Anecdotally, my wife and I were struck by the number of non-white students at his engineering specific gatherings during move in and the number of females living in the same wing of his dorm. Marquette wasn’t like that for me, which I think is why it struck me, and it also made him very happy. He said from the jump, I want to go to the most the most challenging school I can, with the most racially diverse people I can, in a world class city. Of course, the Ivies are filled with rich, white, males, but I do applaud Penn for making it appear that they are invested in first gen, minority, socially and financially diverse students. The data shows they are, let’s hope it continues.
They had to attenuate for what they did to US.....
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Many of the same people who are outraged about colleges improving their diversity by admitting intelligent minority students who might not qualify by standardized tests seem to have absolutely no problem with legacies getting in, whether they are qualified or not.
Gramma Straw man is back. Most arguments I see are ending both preferences.
I also see both sides arguing for ending preferential admissions for athletes. I’ve personally dealt with Ivy athletes admitted with an ACT as low as 17 and SAT as low as 990. Probably worse than “legacy” admits.
Also, a “legacy” admit may just be the child or sibling of grads, having given very little or nothing. That just gets them an extra few admissions points but is hardly determinative. MU had 21% “legacies” in the class of 2024. Likely very few were children of six and seven figure donors who got in without meeting whatever our qualifications are these days (apparently not much).
What is egregious is how Asian applicants are held to such higher standards than others. The “personality test” Harvard admissions office uses to disqualify Asian applicants is discriminatory. The disparate admission standards among the various identified applicant groups demonstrated in the SCOTUS testimony demonstrate this.
Don't you have some books to ban?
I don’t believe in banning books. The though that kids are being deprived of reading To Kill A Mockingbird, which I read in ninth grade, or many books by Mark Twain, which I read in elementary school, is disturbing. Please point to where I’ve ever advocated for outright banning books, Grampa. TIA.
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Gramma Straw man is back. Most arguments I see are ending both preferences.
I also see both sides arguing for ending preferential admissions for athletes. I’ve personally dealt with Ivy athletes admitted with an ACT as low as 17 and SAT as low as 990. Probably worse than “legacy” admits.
Also, a “legacy” admit may just be the child or sibling of grads, having given very little or nothing. That just gets them an extra few admissions points but is hardly determinative. MU had 21% “legacies” in the class of 2024. Likely very few were children of six and seven figure donors who got in without meeting whatever our qualifications are these days (apparently not much).
What is egregious is how Asian applicants are held to such higher standards than others. The “personality test” Harvard admissions office uses to disqualify Asian applicants is discriminatory. The disparate admission standards among the various identified applicant groups demonstrated in the SCOTUS testimony demonstrate this.
I don’t believe in banning books. The though that kids are being deprived of reading To Kill A Mockingbird, which I read in ninth grade, or many books by Mark Twain, which I read in elementary school, is disturbing. Please point to where I’ve ever advocated for outright banning books, Grampa. TIA.
Thanks for being on the right side of the book-banning debate, chicosjr. I’m pleasantly surprised.
Love,
My grandkids’ Grandpa