Will he pass or fail?
Without hyperbole this will be the most important game of the season and not just because it is the next one.
With a L, it's a season that had some high points, but ultimately ended up slightly above the median preseason expectation. No need to get out the pitchforks, but given where we were at the start of February, mildly disappointing to say the least.
With a W, despite the late trials and tribulations, we will have clearly exceeded expectations (though not by as much as we could have, unless we pull off a big 2nd round upset). Both Shaka and the program will have the NCAA win monkey off the back and we'll have taken an important step forward from the Wojo era in year 1 of the Shaka era. That's progress - that we can sell to the fanbase, students and recruits.
This could well be the most important MU game since March 30th, 2013.
Let's get it done.
There is also some differentiation in a tough close lose vs a blowout loss.
#COLE
Quote from: PointWarrior on March 11, 2022, 08:10:26 AM
There is also some differentiation in a tough close lose vs a blowout loss.
Agreed Point. There is some difference between playing well and losing a close one and getting blown out. Part of what hurt the previous administration for me was getting blown out by both South Carolina and Murray State.
Quote from: 1SE on March 11, 2022, 05:46:07 AM
With a L, ended up slightly above the median preseason expectation
With a W, we will have clearly exceeded expectations
This could well be the most important MU game since March 30th, 2013.
So no matter the result of the next game, we agree that Shaka and team has exceeded expectations.
Obviously everyone desires a win, but the state of the program is progressing nicely no matter the result. Every team in the tournament can say their first round game is their most important of the season. That's the nature of the tournament.
Quote from: ZiggysChestHair on March 11, 2022, 10:01:51 AM
So no matter the result of the next game, we agree that Shaka and team has exceeded expectations.
Obviously everyone desires a win, but the state of the program is progressing nicely no matter the result. Every team in the tournament can say their first round game is their most important of the season. That's the nature of the tournament.
I think it's the biggest mover for Shaka's final season grade.
We lose (I'm not that much into the "close loss, moral win" camp but I guess if we lose on some last second miracle from half court..) and I think Shaka's grade is a "B-"
We win and I think we're easily at B+, probably A-.
No other game will move the scale that much. If we make the S16 that moves it to an "A", anything beyond that we start adding +s
(https://comb.io/iuE5TW.gif)
Quote from: 1SE on March 11, 2022, 10:45:29 AM
I think it's the biggest mover for Shaka's final season grade.
We lose (I'm not that much into the "close loss, moral win" camp but I guess if we lose on some last second miracle from half court..) and I think Shaka's grade is a "B-"
We win and I think we're easily at B+, probably A-.
No other game will move the scale that much. If we make the S16 that moves it to an "A", anything beyond that we start adding +s
(https://comb.io/iuE5TW.gif)
Wow. Remind me to never take a class you are teaching. I'd say wins over Nova (2), Providence (conference champs) and Illinois (B16 champ); multiple weeks in the Top 25 and a trip to the Big Dance can't be lower than a B+ regardless of next week.
It seems like your grading curve might have moved during the course of the season. Back in September, we had three returning players (one of which we were mildly confident in being a top contributer in J Lew) and a bunch of unknown players many of whom were new to the program.
Maybe I'm drinking the Kool Aid but a year ago I felt about as low as I could about MU hoops. And now, I'm excited to see where we get seeded on Sunday.
The future is bright.
This team was not expected to make the NCAA tournament. They were picked to finish 9th in the conference, with many expecting them to be an NIT team. Simply meeting those expectations would have been a C grade.
They finished 5th, and worked their way into the top 20 at one point in the season. They are safely in the NCAA tournament. If the season ended today, he's already earned a B. If they win an NCAA tournament game, I don't see how this season could be seen as anything less than wildly exceeding any expectations.
If they make the S16, they're most likely going to have to knock off a #1 seed to do it. With this roster, I feel like that would be a monumental achievement.
Given the recent play, I am not optimistic about the chances to win a game in the NCAA tournament. But to get where we are now from where we were last March is very nice progress.
Quote from: MDMU04 on March 11, 2022, 11:02:34 AM
This team was not expected to make the NCAA tournament. They were picked to finish 9th in the conference, with many expecting them to be an NIT team. Simply meeting those expectations would have been a C grade.
They finished 5th, and worked their way into the top 20 at one point in the season. They are safely in the NCAA tournament. If the season ended today, he's already earned a B. If they win an NCAA tournament game, I don't see how this season could be seen as anything more than wildly exceeding any expectations.
I agree with your grading scale, with the caveat that preseason expectations were so low, because Shaka's recruiting and transfer pickups were a solid D. He needs to raise the recruiting grades to A/B level to get reasonable (to Marquette fans) preseason expectations.
Quote from: MarquetteVol on March 11, 2022, 10:56:16 AM
Wow. Remind me to never take a class you are teaching. I'd say wins over Nova (2), Providence (conference champs) and Illinois (B16 champ); multiple weeks in the Top 25 and a trip to the Big Dance can't be lower than a B+ regardless of next week.
It seems like your grading curve might have moved during the course of the season. Back in September, we had three returning players (one of which we were mildly confident in being a top contributer in J Lew) and a bunch of unknown players many of whom were new to the program.
Maybe I'm drinking the Kool Aid but a year ago I felt about as low as I could about MU hoops. And now, I'm excited to see where we get seeded on Sunday.
The future is bright.
On February 3rd, 85% of us thought we would win at least one game in the NCAAT. It's the same team - we haven't had any injuries, mid-season transfers or letters.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=62947.0
If we lose in the first round that's a "B-"
Good point on the S16, but also our road to the S16 shouldn't have had to go through a 1 or 2 seed based on where we were.
Any season that doesn't end with a title is an F.
Thanks, 1SE, I'm deliriously happy.
Not gonna think about a season grade yet. The season's not over!
Looking forward to watching Shaka pass his first MU NCAAT test.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 11, 2022, 11:08:44 AM
Any season that doesn't end with a title is an F.
I had classes where 50% of my final grade was based on the final exam. Why not for Shaka?
I don't see that we were really better than expected.
At the start of the season, many seemed to buy into the 9th place hype, which frankly was based on probably about as much depth of analysis as "new coach, lot of new players, but we can't be DePaul or Georgetown bad, so 9th it is."
However, if you looked at what some of the same people predicted game by game, they almost always came up somewhere around .500.
I said at the start of the season that there was no reason why we couldn't be competitive with the middle of the pack in the Big East--the five or six teams that finish a game or two above or below .500. Sweep those below the pack (DePaul, Georgetown, and Butler), get swept by the elites (Villanova and UConn), and split with everyone else puts you at 11-9. If you can manage to pick up a game or two in the pack, you have a good shot at 3rd.
The only real surprise in the league this year is that Providence was able to leapfrog Villanova and UConn--otherwise, we've got the typical bunch-up in the middle-of-the-league with Creighton, Seton Hall, Marquette, Xavier and St. Johns. We went 4-3 in this group, missing the game @ St. Johns. We swept Seton Hall, but we got swept by Creighton. I'm neither impressed nor disappointed by this.
We beat Villanova twice but lost to Butler and DePaul. Averages out to a middle-of-the-pack performance.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 11, 2022, 11:08:44 AM
Any season that doesn't end with a title is an F.
Well then F doesn't seem to bad when 300+ schools are getting an F.
Quote from: RushmoreAcademy on March 11, 2022, 01:00:13 PM
Well then F doesn't seem to bad when 300+ schools are getting an F.
Everyone gets a title in this day and age
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 11, 2022, 11:27:11 AM
I had classes where 50% of my final grade was based on the final exam. Why not for Shaka?
Most of us signed up for this class with the belief there was not likely to be a final. I view the remainder of the season as the ability to earn extra credit. It's not something that determines 50% the grade. Classes and grades will get much harder in the Shaka's second year.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 11, 2022, 11:08:44 AM
Any season that doesn't end with a title is an F.
Agree 100%
Shaka gets an A for this year regardless of what happens in the NCAA. He inherited a bare cupboard and a program in decline. Our last first year coach led us to a 13-19 record, 4-14 in the Big East, and he inherited 7 Top 100 players who had been in the program for 1+ year.
Sorry but talk of a B- if we lose in Round 1 of the NCAA is just absurd. Fug, we had people thinking Wojo was the goods still after he got blasted by 30 in Year 3 of his regime in Round 1, and not to mention people still thought he was the goods after Year 5 and getting pummeled by Murray State as a 5 seed.
"The goods" 😂
Quote from: Elonsmusk on March 12, 2022, 07:18:16 PM
Shaka gets an A for this year regardless of what happens in the NCAA. He inherited a bare cupboard and a program in decline. Our last first year coach led us to a 13-19 record, 4-14 in the Big East, and he inherited 7 Top 100 players who had been in the program for 1+ year.
Sorry but talk of a B- if we lose in Round 1 of the NCAA is just absurd. Fug, we had people thinking Wojo was the goods still after he got blasted by 30 in Year 3 of his regime in Round 1, and not to mention people still thought he was the goods after Year 5 and getting pummeled by Murray State as a 5 seed.
Shaka gets an F+ if no NC, period.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on March 12, 2022, 07:18:16 PM
Shaka gets an A for this year regardless of what happens in the NCAA. He inherited a bare cupboard and a program in decline. Our last first year coach led us to a 13-19 record, 4-14 in the Big East, and he inherited 7 Top 100 players who had been in the program for 1+ year.
Sorry but talk of a B- if we lose in Round 1 of the NCAA is just absurd. Fug, we had people thinking Wojo was the goods still after he got blasted by 30 in Year 3 of his regime in Round 1, and not to mention people still thought he was the goods after Year 5 and getting pummeled by Murray State as a 5 seed.
A already? You'd better get your drambuie ready for the pluses when we win the title.
Would love to see a NCAA win but we need to look at the reality of where this team is.
They peaked too early. There's no shame in this. Happens to a young team. If they peaked in March they'd be Cinderella and everyone's Dark Horse pick.
They're not playing the type of basketball you need to be playing in March to be successful or even win a game in the NCAA tournament.
Can they recapture that January type of play where it looked like they could beat any team in the country? I sure hope so.
Am I expecting that to happen. Honestly I'm not. I'm expecting another disappointing blow out in their 1st game.
There's no shame in it, but it is disappointing.
This team and staff deserves our appreciation and credit for a fantastic year when everyone thought it was going to be a disaster.
Let's hope they rattle off 3 or 4 wins in a row, but let's be realistic and not be disappointed if we bow out after game 1.
Quote from: jimmybutlerfanatic on March 13, 2022, 12:52:03 AM
Would love to see a NCAA win but we need to look at the reality of where this team is.
They peaked too early. There's no shame in this. Happens to a young team. If they peaked in March they'd be Cinderella and everyone's Dark Horse pick.
They're not playing the type of basketball you need to be playing in March to be successful or even win a game in the NCAA tournament.
Can they recapture that January type of play where it looked like they could beat any team in the country? I sure hope so.
Am I expecting that to happen. Honestly I'm not. I'm expecting another disappointing blow out in their 1st game.
There's no shame in it, but it is disappointing.
This team and staff deserves our appreciation and credit for a fantastic year when everyone thought it was going to be a disaster.
Let's hope they rattle off 3 or 4 wins in a row, but let's be realistic and not be disappointed if we bow out after game 1.
What if January was only a peek at an eventual March peak?
Quote from: jimmybutlerfanatic on March 13, 2022, 12:52:03 AM
Would love to see a NCAA win but we need to look at the reality of where this team is.
They peaked too early. There's no shame in this. Happens to a young team. If they peaked in March they'd be Cinderella and everyone's Dark Horse pick.
They're not playing the type of basketball you need to be playing in March to be successful or even win a game in the NCAA tournament.
Can they recapture that January type of play where it looked like they could beat any team in the country? I sure hope so.
Am I expecting that to happen. Honestly I'm not. I'm expecting another disappointing blow out in their 1st game.
There's no shame in it, but it is disappointing.
This team and staff deserves our appreciation and credit for a fantastic year when everyone thought it was going to be a disaster.
Let's hope they rattle off 3 or 4 wins in a row, but let's be realistic and not be disappointed if we bow out after game 1.
The COLE is alive and well!
Yes, they exceeded expectations. However, the late season collapse makes it a D for me. As with Wojo, the other teams in the conference got better while MU stagnated. Remember we collapsed against the weaker part of our schedule.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 11, 2022, 11:07:12 AM
I agree with your grading scale, with the caveat that preseason expectations were so low, because Shaka's recruiting and transfer pickups were a solid D. He needs to raise the recruiting grades to A/B level to get reasonable (to Marquette fans) preseason expectations.
Exactly. Shaka has to start to land some studs in the next 2 years instead of role players only. Have not seen that yet, the landing of studs
Role players only puts MU at best in BEast middle of pack. That is why Shaka needs to get some studs, and in next year and following years classes.
Quote from: bilsu on March 13, 2022, 05:24:03 AM
Yes, they exceeded expectations. However, the late season collapse makes it a D for me. As with Wojo, the other teams in the conference got better while MU stagnated. Remember we collapsed against the weaker part of our schedule.
Would give Shaka a C+/B- for better than expected finish in BEast and some quality wins along the way. Would be higher if they did not totally crash late season.
The biggest red flag is that fold down the stretch. Good coaching has the team peaking this time of year. MU is not.
Now if we get into the dance and win a couple, there is optimism for next year and likely some good recruiting news.
This reads like a eulogy, but in reality today is a celebration!
Listen, it's been obvious that after that 7 game win streak the team hasn't been as fluid offensively and as sound defensively and that's why losses were had.
That said MU went 4-6 with the losses
@ Providence (by 2), UConn (by 8), Butler (by 6), Creighton twice (by 1 and by 11), DePaul (by 11).
So 4 of the losses to tourney teams on the road/BET. If I'm not mistaken in nearly every one of these game MU was within 3 points late with a chance to win.
Creighton was also the hottest team in the conference late.
The Butler and DePaul losses, although MU played poorly, were on the road to teams playing much better in the 2H of the season.
Back when Marquette was on a 4 game slide and nearly everyone was thinking the NCAA hopes were toast, I said that one big win at home versus Providence could propel the team to make a run and get back on the bubble.
They did, they rightfully earned their bid, and they showed us all that they were much better than anyone of us really expected.
All Marquettes reach equilibrium, they slid back into a more realistic, but still much better than expected position.
However, don't lose sight that even in their recent slide, despite clearly playing much worse than they had in the month before, they were very close in a lot of difficult road games.
Maybe this more average version of Marquette has been so toughened by BE play that it can still find a way to win this week.
Or maybe the previous months version comes out to play for 48 hours and we get a massive thrill.
Either way, we will all be here to enjoy the ride.
Quote from: DoctorV on March 13, 2022, 08:26:44 AM
This reads like a eulogy, but in reality today is a celebration!
Listen, it's been obvious that after that 7 game win streak the team hasn't been as fluid offensively and as sound defensively and that's why losses were had.
That said MU went 4-6 with the losses
@ Providence (by 2), UConn (by 8), Butler (by 6), Creighton twice (by 1 and by 11), DePaul (by 11).
So 4 of the losses to tourney teams on the road/BET. If I'm not mistaken in nearly every one of these game MU was within 3 points late with a chance to win.
Creighton was also the hottest team in the conference late.
The Butler and DePaul losses, although MU played poorly, were on the road to teams playing much better in the 2H of the season.
Back when Marquette was on a 4 game slide and nearly everyone was thinking the NCAA hopes were toast, I said that one big win at home versus Providence could propel the team to make a run and get back on the bubble.
They did, they rightfully earned their bid, and they showed us all that they were much better than anyone of us really expected.
All Marquettes reach equilibrium, they slid back into a more realistic, but still much better than expected position.
However, don't lose sight that even in their recent slide, despite clearly playing much worse than they had in the month before, they were very close in a lot of difficult road games.
Maybe this more average version of Marquette has been so toughened by BE play that it can still find a way to win this week.
Or maybe the previous months version comes out to play for 48 hours and we get a massive thrill.
Either way, we will all be here to enjoy the ride.
Eat at Arby's
Doctor
Good post. Over the last month only the Butler and DePaul games were unexpected losses. We definitely did not play great but I have not lost my excitement program for this season or the future. In addition, I have mentioned multiple times with the extended playing time for the guys coming back next year and that was a perk. They put themselves into position to tinker and see how the young guys look. I think it will pay dividends as soon as this week.
Just hoping for a win first game n it is we all see the pressure and monkey, then they do too. And that pressure on team and coaches is not really a healthy pressure to play loose, enjoy the game, share the ball and win. Hoping they feel "comfortable" but "hungry" for whoever we play.
MU will be in a 8/9 game. Very winnable. If in Dallas, MU then gets Kansas who will forfeit the game eventually. Survive and advance.
Quote from: DoctorV on March 13, 2022, 08:26:44 AM
This reads like a eulogy, but in reality today is a celebration!
Listen, it's been obvious that after that 7 game win streak the team hasn't been as fluid offensively and as sound defensively and that's why losses were had.
That said MU went 4-6 with the losses
@ Providence (by 2), UConn (by 8), Butler (by 6), Creighton twice (by 1 and by 11), DePaul (by 11).
So 4 of the losses to tourney teams on the road/BET. If I'm not mistaken in nearly every one of these game MU was within 3 points late with a chance to win.
Creighton was also the hottest team in the conference late.
The Butler and DePaul losses, although MU played poorly, were on the road to teams playing much better in the 2H of the season.
Back when Marquette was on a 4 game slide and nearly everyone was thinking the NCAA hopes were toast, I said that one big win at home versus Providence could propel the team to make a run and get back on the bubble.
They did, they rightfully earned their bid, and they showed us all that they were much better than anyone of us really expected.
All Marquettes reach equilibrium, they slid back into a more realistic, but still much better than expected position.
However, don't lose sight that even in their recent slide, despite clearly playing much worse than they had in the month before, they were very close in a lot of difficult road games.
Maybe this more average version of Marquette has been so toughened by BE play that it can still find a way to win this week.
Or maybe the previous months version comes out to play for 48 hours and we get a massive thrill.
Either way, we will all be here to enjoy the ride.
A lot of Scoopers have forgotten our 3-6 stretch that included ugly losses to the Bonnies, Madison and UCLA followed by the painful 0-3 start to the BE season.
To me, this last 3-5 stretch is very similar. Like you, I'm hoping that a big win this week can ignite something in our team and propel us further.
I'm not naive. I know we might not play well enough to win any NCAAT games ... but I don't see the point of wallowing in negativity and thinking, "We're doomed."
We Are Marquette!
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 13, 2022, 08:50:56 AM
MU will be in a 8/9 game. Very winnable. If in Dallas, MU then gets Kansas who will forfeit the game eventually. Survive and advance.
This made me laugh.
Quote from: bilsu on March 13, 2022, 05:24:03 AM
Yes, they exceeded expectations................
However a D for me.
Lol