Is the slap during the altercation a fireable offense?
Punk moves all the way around. Gard timeout. Howard losing it. Krabbenhoff escalating it. Howard and players swinging.
I want to know what gard said after Howard refused to shake his hand.
Brad Davison should be suspended for the rest of the season.
Quote from: #UnleashGreg on February 20, 2022, 02:56:59 PM
I want to know what gard said after Howard refused to shake his hand.
Why does that matter?
no way hes fired. 5 game suspension.
Superbar
Quote from: Dickthedribbler on February 20, 2022, 02:59:07 PM
Brad Davison should be suspended for the rest of the season.
Haven't seen the video, what did the ol' nutpuncher do?
Nothing that I could see. Just seems like a good idea.
Quote from: Dickthedribbler on February 20, 2022, 03:15:16 PM
Nothing that I could see. Just seems like a good idea.
Haha, Fair enough! I agree. So glad we never have to see him again
No wonder Gard's players hate Gard.
Not excuses for Howard. He should be suspended for the rest of the year.
But Gard is an A$$. Who the F calls a time-out w / 4 seconds to go, up 14 ??
( and Gard said it was cuz he did not want his subs to turn the ball over !?!? )
Quote from: Mu8891 on February 20, 2022, 03:29:46 PM
Not excuses for Howard. He should be suspended for the rest of the year.
But Gard is an A$$. Who the F calls a time-out w / 4 seconds to go, up 14 ??
( and Gard said it was cuz he did not want his subs to turn the ball over !?!? )
Uh. If you are going to press down 20 against their walk ons, you can't be pissed when they call a timeout.
Quote from: Mu8891 on February 20, 2022, 03:29:46 PM
Not excuses for Howard. He should be suspended for the rest of the year.
But Gard is an A$$. Who the F calls a time-out w / 4 seconds to go, up 14 ??
( and Gard said it was cuz he did not want his subs to turn the ball over !?!? )
I've always said Gard is one of the most underappreciated coaches by a fanbase, but after today, Coach Schmidt, I mean Coach Gard, made a bush league move big time and Howard made even a bigger one!
Gard calling a TO there was 100% justified. Howard was pressing down 14 with starters against walk ons. If you don't want the game extended, call off the dogs.
Quote from: Clarissa on February 20, 2022, 03:42:00 PM
Gard calling a TO there was 100% justified. Howard was pressing down 14 with starters against walk ons. If you don't want the game extended, call off the dogs.
With 4 seconds to go? You are no better than the loser Howard is at that point. Be the bigger man as Gard should not get caught up in Howard's gamesmanship. Take the W and keep moving on. I can see a TO with two minutes or so, but not when you throw the ball in and the game is basically over.
Sorry totally disagree.
No. I would not press down 20.
But ... u DON'T call a TO w / 4 secs to go. Very Bush. Gard is a jag.
Watched the end of the game.
Michigan is down 16 with .20 to go and Howard has them still pressing. Not wanting to be out-douched, Gard calls a time out with .04 in game. Howard responds in the handshake line by grabbing Gard by the shirt collar and taking a poke at Joe Krabbenhoff.
You tell me who is the bigger A-hole.
Quote from: OffTheGlass on February 20, 2022, 03:45:09 PM
With 4 seconds to go? You are no better than the loser Howard is at that point. Be the bigger man as Gard should not get caught up in Howard's gamesmanship. Take the W and keep moving on. I can see a TO with two minutes or so, but not when you throw the ball in and the game is basically over.
Sorry totally disagree.
Quote from: Mu8891 on February 20, 2022, 03:46:23 PM
No. I would not press down 20.
But ... u DON'T call a TO w / 4 secs to go. Very Bush. Gard is a jag.
You're both biased. Puli want to end the game, then call off the dogs.
Imagine thinking Gard was the problem. 😂😂😂
Quote from: Dickthedribbler on February 20, 2022, 03:47:30 PM
Watched the end of the game.
Michigan is down 16 with .20 to go and Howard has them still pressing. Not wanting to be out-douched, Gard calls a time out with .04 in game. Howard responds in the handshake line by grabbing Gard by the shirt collar and taking a poke at Joe Krabbenhoff.
You tell me who is the bigger A-hole.
Yep.
Both pathetic.
That said, Howard is supposed to be a leader of young men. It doesn't matter what was said, you are supposed to be a role model; striking someone else is inexcusable.
In my mind, if Michigan and/or the Big 10 don't suspend Howard for the rest of the season, shame on them.
I would still suspend Brad Davison.
That was a P$$$y move by Howard to reach over while being protected by his players
Only losers whine about timeouts being called.
I don't condone violence BUT you should never forget that Joe Krabbenhoft was a 5 star recruit, ranked 23rd in the country and never made even an All Big Ten team.
Quote from: The Lens on February 20, 2022, 04:36:56 PM
I don't condone violence BUT you should never forget that Joe Krabbenhoft was a 5 star recruit, ranked 23rd in the country and never made even an All Big Ten team.
Still can't play defense apparently.
As I said ... Howard was worse. He should be suspended for the rest of the year.
But, I still think Gard is a jag.
Howard ghosted Gard at the handshake line. Gard couldn't let it go and grabbed Howard and they started jawing at each other.
Petty end of the game stuff, but let it go after the game. Really stupid.
Howard has a history of this and I am sure neither the University or The Big10-14 will do much.
Also a couple of MI players need to be suspended as well.
IMO, an appropriate suspension would be the rest of the regular season for Howard.
I'd be shocked if Howard doesn't get suspended. It might not be enough for what the infraction warrants ... that we'll have to see ... but he'll be suspended.
All in all, though, none of those piles of shyte came out looking like "leaders."
My guess is the most Howard will be suspended for is one game. Commissioner of the Big Ten is not going to go against Howard.
Quote from: Dickthedribbler on February 20, 2022, 03:47:30 PM
Watched the end of the game.
Michigan is down 16 with .20 to go and Howard has them still pressing. Not wanting to be out-douched, Gard calls a time out with .04 in game. Howard responds in the handshake line by grabbing Gard by the shirt collar and taking a poke at Joe Krabbenhoff.
You tell me who is the bigger A-hole.
https://twitter.com/JeannaTrotmanTV/status/1495536258600292352?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet (https://twitter.com/JeannaTrotmanTV/status/1495536258600292352?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet)
Actually Howard was content walking past Gard, and just said "I'll remember that crap." Gard then grabbed Howards arm, put his hand on Howard's chest to stop him/hold him, before Howard did anything.
Gard escalated all of it. No need to put his hands on the opposing coach there.
Also, good footage of Davison being a jackass at the end.
Yeah I don't think Gard did much wrong there compared to what Howard did. The B10 and UM knows this, which is why UM has apologized and why he will be suspended.
Quote from: Clarissa on February 20, 2022, 03:42:00 PM
Gard calling a TO there was 100% justified. Howard was pressing down 14 with starters against walk ons. If you don't want the game extended, call off the dogs.
last second time outs are still a sore subject for Howard.
Link from Karley Marotta of WKOW (Marc Marotta's daughter) of the on-court actions: https://twitter.com/Karley_Marotta/status/1495546073724723207
Quote from: Clarissa on February 20, 2022, 06:34:52 PM
Yeah I don't think Gard did much wrong there compared to what Howard did. The B10 and UM knows this, which is why UM has apologized and why he will be suspended.
Howard was in the wrong for the slap. Krabbenhoft was in the wrong for grabbing a Michigan player and talking trash to Howard. Gard was wrong for putting his hands on the other coach and instigating everything downstream.
Howard should be suspended for a couple games. (I'd have given him a pass though if he had punched Davison...such a punchable person). But I'd also suspend Gard and Krabbenhoft. They were both out of line. You cannot/should not put your hands on another person especially in an angry/manner while yelling at them (Gard).
A suspension for Gard and Krabbenhoft would be ridiculous. Which is why its not going to happen.
It's also not the first time Howard's gotten into it with an opposing coaching staff in his short career.
If Juwan was going to punch someone for a timeout it probably should've been Chris Webber.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/michigan-vs-wisconsin-fight-juwan-howard-hardly-only-party-to-blame-for-overshadowing-sports-big-weekend/
When will the B1G suspend Izzo for crimes against women? This was a walk in the park dust up in comparison.
Quote from: forgetful on February 20, 2022, 06:31:15 PM
https://twitter.com/JeannaTrotmanTV/status/1495536258600292352?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet (https://twitter.com/JeannaTrotmanTV/status/1495536258600292352?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet)
Actually Howard was content walking past Gard, and just said "I'll remember that crap." Gard then grabbed Howards arm, put his hand on Howard's chest to stop him/hold him, before Howard did anything.
Gard escalated all of it. No need to put his hands on the opposing coach there.
Also, good footage of Davison being a jackass at the end.
Surprised Floppy didn't throw himself at the floor and pretend someone hit him.
Quote from: The Lens on February 20, 2022, 04:36:56 PM
I don't condone violence BUT you should never forget that Joe Krabbenhoft was a 5 star recruit, ranked 23rd in the country and never made even an All Big Ten team.
Krabb definitely deserved that b-slap. Yupper.
Quote from: Big Papi on February 20, 2022, 02:53:58 PM
Is the slap during the altercation a fireable offense?
A slap (even though that's what I thought it was at first look) it wasn't.
Better video - it's a punch. He should be gone, likely for season, maybe for good.
Quote from: Clarissa on February 20, 2022, 06:47:12 PM
A suspension for Gard and Krabbenhoft would be ridiculous. Which is why its not going to happen.
Chill on this thread Mrs Gard. You've made your views known
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 20, 2022, 07:36:47 PM
When will the B1G suspend Izzo for crimes against women? This was a walk in the park dust up in comparison.
We have to wait three years to again care about women being abused.
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 20, 2022, 08:15:42 PM
Chill on this thread Mrs Gard. You've made your views known
Sorry you can't handle when people express their opinions.
Quote from: TSmith34 on February 20, 2022, 07:37:03 PM
Surprised Floppy didn't throw himself at the floor and pretend someone hit him.
nice
Quote from: Dickthedribbler on February 20, 2022, 03:47:30 PM
Watched the end of the game.
Michigan is down 16 with .20 to go and Howard has them still pressing. Not wanting to be out-douched, Gard calls a time out with .04 in game. Howard responds in the handshake line by grabbing Gard by the shirt collar and taking a poke at Joe Krabbenhoff.
You tell me who is the bigger A-hole.
The guy who physically hits someone over a game and unwritten rules. They are all assholes but God knows all assholes aren't the same size.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 20, 2022, 07:36:47 PM
When will the B1G suspend Izzo for crimes against women? This was a walk in the park dust up in comparison.
Rent free, eh?
A dude took a swing at another dude. It's not ideal but my lord are people overreacting.
Suspend him for a few games and move on.
Did Howard even apologize?
Ty. I'm confused about something. Gard said he called a time-out because his team was struggling to get across half-court in 10 secs. Does that mean Michigan was pressing down like 15 with under 30 secs to go? Why would they be pressing?
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 20, 2022, 08:53:05 PM
Ty. I'm confused about something. Gard said he called a time-out because his team was struggling to get across half-court in 10 secs. Does that mean Michigan was pressing down like 15 with under 30 secs to go? Why would they be pressing?
Their starters were pressing the UW walk-ons. It was ridiculous.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 20, 2022, 08:53:05 PM
Ty. I'm confused about something. Gard said he called a time-out because his team was struggling to get across half-court in 10 secs. Does that mean Michigan was pressing down like 15 with under 30 secs to go? Why would they be pressing?
Exactly. If you want to press against their walk ons, don't be pissed when the other coach calls a timeout.
Quote from: cheebs09 on February 20, 2022, 08:55:09 PM
Their starters were pressing the UW walk-ons. It was ridiculous.
Well that's just stupid. Gard shouldn't have touched Howard but his reaction was absurd.
Quote from: bilsu on February 20, 2022, 04:30:04 PM
Only losers whine about timeouts being called.
So Shaka is a loser? He didn't like Schmidt calling a full TO in Charleston?
I think that Gard didn't have to call a timeout but having not read the entire thread yet, I do have a tough time in Howard's hypocrisy about Gard calling a timeout when he's apparently pressing when the game is over too. If you want to press the 2nd team, then he should have no problem with Gard calling a TO. I thought Gard didn't have to take the timeout and just ride it out, but If I'm a badger fan, I'd be taking that position. Don't press when the game is over and Gard won't call a timeout.
Quote from: The Lens on February 20, 2022, 08:46:39 PM
A dude took a swing at another dude. It's not ideal but my lord are people overreacting.
Suspend him for a few games and move on.
Agreed. Also, if the opposing coach put his hands on Al Mcguire, like Gard did to Howard. Mcguire would have buried the other coach.
Quote from: BLM on February 20, 2022, 07:07:57 PM
If Juwan was going to punch someone for a timeout it probably should've been Chris Webber.
Winner.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 20, 2022, 08:46:56 PM
Did Howard even apologize?
Not even close. He all but said, "He had it coming, and I'd do it again."
Quote from: forgetful on February 20, 2022, 09:04:47 PM
Agreed. Also, if the opposing coach put his hands on Al Mcguire, like Gard did to Howard. Mcguire would have buried the other coach.
Got a feeling Al wouldn't be burying Juwan Howard.
Quote from: Retire0 on February 20, 2022, 09:26:23 PM
Got a feeling Al wouldn't be burying Juwan Howard.
I was talking about burying Gard, after he grabbed Howard.
I think the dumbest thing Howard did was thinking they could guard Davis one on one.
I am NOT a badger fan, Howard is a total douche and needs to be fired for striking another coach. I assume he will get a minimal suspension.
I think Howard will get a 5 gane suspension and Gard will get a 1 game. Personally I think Howard should get a lot more, he has this odd sense of entitlement. The whole thing is bizarre to me. Who really gives a crap that Wisconsin called a time-out anyway?
Your team couldn't make a shot. There appears to be significant douchebaggery at play here. Mostly from Howard and a bit by Gard. Bur the fact that Juwan apparently didn't apologize to Krabbenhoft or at all is super weird imo.
Al would never punch another coach.
He only took swings at his players.
This stuff about unwritten rules and gamesmanship comes up all the time.
You're ahead 9-1 in the 8th inning and your baserunner steals third base. You're up 38-3 in the 4th quarter and on third and 7 your quarterback throws downfield. You're down 16 with .20 to play and you're pressing and the opposing coach responds by using a timeout.
Howard has been in athletics all his life. He should be suspended if for no other reason than he is apparently too stupid to realize all of this is how things work. Instead, his response is to sucker punch a guy 20 years younger than him then hide behind a wall of his own players and play the "victim" card.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohgxfZHUE0M
A video of a different altercation under similar circumstances from 3 days earlier that we somehow missed.
Why should there even be a handshake line? Totally unnecessary just like playing the national anthem. Its a sporting event, not some gladiator event. When the final horn goes off, go home, hey?
Besides, that would also eliminate the Tommy Crean "fook you" Handshake, hey?
I had always kind of been a fan of Juwan Howard. Not any more.
Never liked Greg Gard. No Change.
Howard might be a terd, but he took a shot at a Badger. What's not to love? Appreciate the hate. Better dead, than RED.
Howard clearly deserves a significant suspension, but I hope that it comes out that he swatted at Krabbenhoft because he saw him pushing a couple of Michigan players.
Gard is acting like he wanted to very calmly explain to Howard why he called a timeout, but the video clearly shows that Howard was trying to blow by him and Gard initiated the physical contact that set off their face to face (or maybe closer to face to chest) confrontation.
I can't help but laugh at the UW AD and Gard pontificating about sportsmanship when they have repeatedly defended Davison and his nut punching, kicking, tripping, and flopping. I wonder what they will say about the Badger player who ran into the pack, took a couple of swings, and then ran off.
IIRC, Krabbenhoft was Davison in his day. Plenty of blame to go around. It took a lot of consecutive bad decisions by all parties to end up where it did.
This clip shows pretty well how Howard swatted at Krabbenhoft after he saw Krabbenhoft pushing Michigan players.
https://twitter.com/itsantwright/status/1495552481836912640?s=21
Quote from: wisblue on February 21, 2022, 07:36:52 AM
This clip shows pretty well how Howard swatted at Krabbenhoft after he saw Krabbenhoft pushing Michigan players.
https://twitter.com/itsantwright/status/1495552481836912640?s=21
Krabbenhoft did more than push. He threw gas on fire. You can see when he initially enters into the picture and is jawing that the Michigan players start to become enraged at him and start to go forward. I'm guessing he said some bad things. I don't know about Gard but he should be suspended.
I agree that we should do away with the end of game hand shake line. Do it pregame or not at all.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on February 20, 2022, 07:51:59 PM
A slap (even though that's what I thought it was at first look) it wasn't.
Better video - it's a punch. He should be gone, likely for season, maybe for good.
Looks like the UW assistant coach's head gets snapped into the player behind him.
Looks like Howard connected pretty well.
Keep the ugliness in Madison.
Quote from: Big Papi on February 21, 2022, 08:07:53 AM
Krabbenhoft did more than push. He threw gas on fire. You can see when he initially enters into the picture and is jawing that the Michigan players start to become enraged at him and start to go forward. I'm guessing he said some bad things. I don't know about Gard but he should be suspended.
I'd agree Krabbenhoft should get a game or two for escalating a tense situation. Also agree that there's not enough info to suspend Gard based on what I've seen on available videos.
But you simply can't reach across a pile and strike an opponent on the head. 5 games minimum for Howard.
We need Alando Tucker to chime in, hey
The Athletic's Chris Branch's take:
First, watch the video. You'll notice the handshake line is proceeding as usual, until Howard tries to walk past Gard without shaking hands but tells Gard, "I'll remember this." Gard becomes angry at this, physically stepping in front of Howard to discuss their issues.
Howard was mad. He puts a finger in Gard's face, yelling — ostensibly about that unnecessary timeout. A near-melee ensues, including Howard throwing a sort of open-hand punch/slap at Wisconsin assistant Joe Krabbenhoft. Players got involved and a couple of real punches were thrown. No one was injured, but it was an ugly scene.
Michigan and the Big Ten condemned the altercation. Suspensions are possible. Don't be surprised if Howard faces a lengthy suspension or even termination. That feels harsh, but things aren't great at Michigan right now. It might be a final-straw situation.
The even-keeled takeaway: Two things can be true here. Gard probably shouldn't have called that timeout. Take your win, head to the locker room and celebrate properly. No need to filibuster in front of your opponent after you've won handily.
Howard probably should've given a begrudging handshake and gone home, stewing on the loss in the safe confines of his own locker room with no national TV cameras in sight.
There have been a lot of grumbling through the years about Wisconsin basketball and how they play (A lot of coaches in the leagues through the years feel they're a dirty team). Howard is newcomer, coming from the NBA. He was pretty dismissive of the Badgers last year after another Davison issue. This was boiling up with him.
Does it excuse his behavior? Nope. Should he be suspended? Yup, and for the season IMO. Do I think a lot of coaches in the league get it and secretly applaud it? Yup.
^^^ all that's fine, but I'd add in "don't be a little b1tch if the other team responds to you pressing their bench with 15 seconds on the clock"
Do Wisconsin and their opponents leave (and enter?) their court from the same tunnel? Why did the Wisconsin team stay out on the court after Michigan was going to their locker room after the scuffle?
Quote from: BLM on February 21, 2022, 08:41:01 AM
Do Wisconsin and their opponents leave (and enter?) their court from the same tunnel? Why did the Wisconsin team stay out on the court after Michigan was going to their locker room after the scuffle?
Davison was trying to get everyone to stay out there to go sing "Varsity" to the student section. No idea what that UW tradition is, but I saw a video of that somewhere.
Quote from: Jay Bee on February 21, 2022, 08:39:50 AM
^^^ all that's fine, but I'd add in "don't be a little b1tch if the other team responds to you pressing their bench with 15 seconds on the clock"
Yeah, he should have been more concerned with how his team has played this year and there miserable performance in the 2nd half yesterday. That's definitely true
If this has happened in the past with Howard, it will probably happen again.
Is this serious enough for Michigan to be Howard's third strike?
Quote from: NCMUFan on February 21, 2022, 08:48:03 AM
If this has happened in the past with Howard, it will probably happen again.
Is this serious enough for Michigan to be Howard's third strike?
Yes, I believe so
Howard went after Turgeon last year during the B1GT, having to be restrained by assistant coaches before being ejected. No one - much less a head coach, even more so on national television - should ever strike an opponent (player, coach, administrator, fan, etc.). Reading the transcript of the postgame interview with Howard, he didn't even apologize or even sound apologetic. He was defiant and self-justifying in attempting to rationalize why it was ok for him to strike someone in a handshake line.
Howard should be fired, IMO. I have doubts that he will (probably a suspension for the rest of the season), but since this is the second emotional outburst (with one being physical and the first nearly becoming physical), there is enough there to justify immediate termination. You can have someone that is unable to control their emotions leading young men and representing a school.
Compounding the embarrassment is that selected national sportswriters and Michigan alumni defending Howard, even arguing that he doesn't deserve to be fired because of various un-related reasons (Bobby Knight, slap vs. punch, no blood/no knock out, etc.).
Howard is a kitten
Here's a UW staffer adding some jackassery to the situation:
https://twitter.com/Eddie_Rado/status/1495488738948005889
I hope and pray that Michigan and UW meet in the B10 Tournament.
Howard was pressing at the end to try to narrow the losing point spread to help Michigan's NET number. Gard countered with the timeout to protect the spread and help UW's NET number.
Blame the NCAA and it's use of a formula that encourages blowouts.
Quote from: BrewCity83 on February 21, 2022, 10:56:58 AM
Howard was pressing at the end to try to narrow the losing point spread to help Michigan's NET number. Gard countered with the timeout to protect the spread and help UW's NET number.
Blame the NCAA and it's use of a formula that encourages blowouts.
Except the NET number doesn't include margin of victory anymore.
Quote from: Mu8891 on February 20, 2022, 03:29:46 PM
Not excuses for Howard. He should be suspended for the rest of the year.
But Gard is an A$$. Who the F calls a time-out w / 4 seconds to go, up 14 ??
( and Gard said it was cuz he did not want his subs to turn the ball over !?!? )
It was pretty obvious if watching the game.
I don't get calling out Gard for taking a timeout, but being silent about Howard having his guys use a full court press with 4 seconds to go down 15. That was an in-your-face move by Howard. Gard's timeout was the back-in-your-face timeout.
I would hope Shaka would do the same think if another coach pulled a move like that.
BTW, it really hurts defending Gard.
Quote from: forgetful on February 21, 2022, 11:02:21 AM
Except the NET number doesn't include margin of victory anymore.
True, but scoring or not would (very slightly) change your efficiency numbers. Hence the conversation the last few days about the Georgetown margin.
However, once the walk-ons go in, it's pretty much run out the clock time. Why would Howard be upset if Gard was playing the NET game if he was too?
Also, having seeing it again, I could get on board with a Krabbenhoft punishment. It didn't seem like he was trying to play peacemaker when putting his hands on the Michigan guys.
Quote from: Jockey on February 21, 2022, 11:09:21 AM
It was pretty obvious if watching the game.
I don't get calling out Gard for taking a timeout, but being silent about Howard having his guys use a full court press with 4 seconds to go down 15. That was an in-your-face move by Howard. Gard's timeout was the back-in-your-face timeout.
I would hope Shaka would do the same think if another coach pulled a move like that.
BTW, it really hurts defending Gard.
I think the general public, if they didn't know before, have confirmation now that both Howard and Gard are losers/douchebags.
I would love to know what Krabbenhoft said. He ran in there with his hair on fire and absolutely escalated that situation from a shouting match to a physical one.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on February 21, 2022, 09:15:46 AM
Howard went after Turgeon last year during the B1GT, having to be restrained by assistant coaches before being ejected.
Juwan yelling at Turgeon with the purported "I'm gonna f'in kill you"
Given his very short history of mixing it up with other coaches, I think Howard should be done for the rest of the year and wouldn't be surprised if he's fired. If you're pressing walk-ons with starters down 15 with thirty seconds left, then don't get pissed if the other team takes a TO to reset the 10 second call. Given the context, Gard didn't do anything wrong and certainly not anything that warranted Howard being upset to the point of hitting an opposing coach.
As for Krabbenhoft, I'd be curious what he said since it seems Michigan responded to whatever he was saying in the middle. Based on that, he certainly could be guilty of escalating the situation, but regardless, Howard has to be better and should be done for the year. There's no place for that kind of bs in sports.
I will stand to be corrected if I'm wrong, but if memory serves, Krabbenhoff and Howard have some history.
I vaguely recall a couple of years ago when there was a screaming match (during the game) between Howard and the Wisconsin bench (with Krabbenhoff leading the charge) regarding rough play, cheap shots, etc.. Both took a few steps down the sideline then pissed at each other before the referees intervened.
Yesterday probably just a renewal of their friendship.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 21, 2022, 06:15:30 AM
Why should there even be a handshake line? Totally unnecessary just like playing the national anthem. Its a sporting event, not some gladiator event. When the final horn goes off, go home, hey?
I agree. It would be fine to save them for special occasions. NCAA tournament game? Sure. Conference game in February? Not necessary
https://twitter.com/nwarikoo/status/1495810618435293188?t=eu3sxHDBwX2yqNWjPNHUGQ&s=19
Quote from: Mr. Nielsen on February 21, 2022, 12:58:11 PM
https://twitter.com/nwarikoo/status/1495810618435293188?t=eu3sxHDBwX2yqNWjPNHUGQ&s=19
Do they know that the athletic director is black, he will do the right thing, this is not a black/White situation, it is 2 coaches, it takes 2 tangle. I believe Gard should
be suspended as well. Gard started the issue, then Howard ended it. Both are in wrong plus a few players should be suspended as well. This is not how 2 leaders
of young men should have handled the situation, black eye for both programs.
In spite of the welt on Joe Krabbenhoff's head it only took 24 hours for Juwan Howard to become the victim and Greg Gard to become the bad guy. That's pretty fast even by today's standards
I envision some serious, serious sensitivity training in Coach Gard's future.
Quote from: Mr. Nielsen on February 21, 2022, 12:58:11 PM
https://twitter.com/nwarikoo/status/1495810618435293188?t=eu3sxHDBwX2yqNWjPNHUGQ&s=19
Rev Williams must be one of those blind/biased Scoopers that Clarissa has been prattling on about - what's his nom de guerre on Scoop?
Quote from: Mr. Nielsen on February 21, 2022, 12:58:11 PM
https://twitter.com/nwarikoo/status/1495810618435293188?t=eu3sxHDBwX2yqNWjPNHUGQ&s=19
We live in the dumbest of times.
Quote from: Mr. Nielsen on February 21, 2022, 12:58:11 PM
https://twitter.com/nwarikoo/status/1495810618435293188?t=eu3sxHDBwX2yqNWjPNHUGQ&s=19
Greg Gard deserves some culpability too but the "equitable" approach in no way justifies a 6' 9" former NBA player taking a swing at opposing coaching staff which in turn escalated and incited some college kids who they are supposed to be role models for into a brawl. This has nothing to do with race.
Stoopid is colorblind.
Quote from: Mr. Nielsen on February 21, 2022, 12:58:11 PM
https://twitter.com/nwarikoo/status/1495810618435293188?t=eu3sxHDBwX2yqNWjPNHUGQ&s=19
Good grief.
Greg Gard belongs in jail for crimes against the game of basketball and I stand with those people against him
Quote from: Warrior Code on February 21, 2022, 12:38:44 PM
I agree. It would be fine to save them for special occasions. NCAA tournament game? Sure. Conference game in February? Not necessary
Save it for the end of a Stanley Cup playoff round.
Howard shouldn't have pressed in a game that was over. Gard shouldn't have laid hands on Howard. Krabbenhoft shouldn't have pushed Michigan players. Howard shouldn't have put his hands in Krabbenhoft's face. Everything that followed shouldn't have followed.
The real problem, however, is the lack of accountability from the "leaders of men." Gard just tried to deflect and cast all the blame on Howard. Howard refused to apologize and basically said he was still in the right. The duty of both men was to stand up, take accountability, and apologize for their part in what happened and the fallout. If they're going to be leaders, then lead in taking responsibility. I lost respect for both of them today.
Quote from: MUONTOP on February 21, 2022, 02:07:13 PM
Greg Gard deserves some culpability too but the "equitable" approach in no way justifies a 6' 9" former NBA player taking a swing at opposing coaching staff which in turn escalated and incited some college kids who they are supposed to be role models for into a brawl. This has nothing to do with race.
6'9" former NBA player takes a swing at 6'7" former 5-star recruit. The horror! Two former big-time recruits, Top 25 studs duking it out. Might as well have been a McD's AA game.
Quote from: oldwarrior81 on February 21, 2022, 11:25:09 AM
Juwan yelling at Turgeon with the purported "I'm gonna f'in kill you"
"I'm gonna kick your *ss, Calipari!"
-John Chaney
Quote from: Jay Bee on February 21, 2022, 08:19:11 AM
We need Alando Tucker to chime in, hey
...I believe he's recorded some comments
At least no one got dumped at the Auto Zone
Quote from: Jables1604 on February 21, 2022, 03:00:35 PM
"I'm gonna kick your *ss, Calipari!"
-John Chaney
I believe Cheney also threatened to kill Cal.
Quote from: Jables1604 on February 21, 2022, 03:00:35 PM
"I'm gonna kick your *ss, Calipari!"
-John Chaney
That's okay, threatening physical violence becomes cool if you are over 70.
Quote from: MUCam on February 20, 2022, 03:54:41 PM
Both pathetic.
That said, Howard is supposed to be a leader of young men. It doesn't matter what was said, you are supposed to be a role model; striking someone else is inexcusable.
In my mind, if Michigan and/or the Big 10 don't suspend Howard for the rest of the season, shame on them.
At least. But the Bi wont do it.
Quote from: MUBurrow on February 21, 2022, 03:51:55 PM
That's okay, threatening physical violence becomes cool if you are over 70.
Careful! Your bigotry is showing. Judging someone on the basis of gender, race, religion, national origin or age all =bigotry.
What a comedy!
Unless you're a crazy Madison or Michigan fan, I can't see anything but immature, egotistical idiots on both sides. No excuses are valid on either side. Just a bad look for both UW and UofM .
I don't care what the punishment is, if there is even any. I don't expect much from the Big 14
Howard suspended by Michigan for the remainder of the regular season
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 21, 2022, 05:31:39 PM
Howard suspended by Michigan for the remainder of the regular season
The correct punishment. Now he should apologize and take anger management classes.
And Krabbenhoff should be punished, as well. A coach does not put his hands on an opposing team's players. Or his own players in that way.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 21, 2022, 05:31:39 PM
Howard suspended by Michigan for the remainder of the regular season
That's 5 games. Seems about right.
Guess Gard is 2-3 games.
Nothing more to see here.
What seems to be lost in all of the analysis of the incident is the UW holier than thou BS. Gard said that he called time out so the 10 second count to get over half court could be restarted. He also said I'm not sure he (Howard) knows the rule. Classic we play the game the"right"way.
Quote from: sailwi on February 21, 2022, 05:42:11 PM
What seems to be lost in all of the analysis of the incident is the UW holier than thou BS. Gard said that he called time out so the 10 second count to get over half court could be restarted. He also said I'm not sure he (Howard) knows the rule. Classic we play the game the"right"way.
It's lost because it is not important.
Appropriate by Michigan. I expect the statue for Gard to be announced soon.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on February 21, 2022, 05:04:18 PM
Unless you're a crazy Madison or Michigan fan, I can't see anything but immature, egotistical idiots on both sides. No excuses are valid on either side. Just a bad look for both UW and UofM .
I don't care what the punishment is, if there is even any. I don't expect much from the Big 14
But which side got mad at fair play being bandied about? If Howard just accepted taking a timeout was fair game for pressing Wisconsin'a subs this wouldn't have happened. It's also quite likely the other coaches are tired of Howard's schtick (Maryland last year, at Rutgers this year) and are secretly happy Gard's reaction led to this overreaction.
Quote from: statnik on February 21, 2022, 05:59:27 PM
But which side got mad at fair play being bandied about? If Howard just accepted taking a timeout was fair game for pressing Wisconsin'a subs this wouldn't have happened. It's also quite likely the other coaches are tired of Howard's schtick (Maryland last year, at Rutgers this year) and are secretly happy Gard's reaction led to this overreaction.
OK, I'll play along my Badger friend. What if Gard never grabbed an opposing coach? There is no excuse for that. Gard would have flipped out if Howard grabbed him (and rightfully so). Gard was trying to escalate the situation. But both he and Howard are sophomoric idiots.
Gard shouldn't have called a timeout.
Gard shouldn't have put his hands on Howard.
Howard's actions were outrageous regardless and deserve stiff punishment.
All these things can be (and are) true.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on February 21, 2022, 06:20:59 PM
OK, I'll play along my Badger friend. What if Gard never grabbed an opposing coach? There is no excuse for that. Gard would have flipped out if Howard grabbed him (and rightfully so). Gard was trying to escalate the situation. But both he and Howard are sophomoric idiots.
In hindsight, Gard should have not taken the timeout. He would then be able to be the one saying, I'll remember that, as well as getting the win.
Krabbenhoft should be fired.
If Michigan loses games while Howard is suspended, will the selection committee give them a break like they did when Boeheim was suspended for 9 games?
Quote from: CountryRoads on February 21, 2022, 06:26:54 PM
If Michigan loses games while Howard is suspended, will the selection committee give them a break like they did when Boeheim was suspended for 9 games?
They can't afford to lose many more games, regardless of coach
Quote from: Pakuni on February 21, 2022, 06:25:07 PM
Gard shouldn't have called a timeout.
Gard shouldn't have put his hands on Howard.
Howard's actions were outrageous regardless and deserve stiff punishment.
All these things can be (and are) true.
Exactly. This is what happens when a hot-head, poor sport encounters a notorious ass clown. I think the suspensions were fine on the coaches end. Can't really suspend a coach for being a dick although the matter of him initiating the contact with Howard could be debated. However, I have no idea how Williams and Neath only get a one game suspension. Both clearly threw multiple punches.
I loved the UW AD's comments about sportsmenship and a high standard in the Big 10. A few thoughts...
1. Barry Alvarez and a student
2. Bo Ryan misuse of resources for an affair
3. Brad Davison and repeates nut punches
What Howard did was ridiculous for any adult...but the AD at UW needs to STFU. Big 10 standards have been set at MSU with sexual assualts, at UW with Barry, Brett, and Bo, and at IU with Bobby Knight.
Everyone lives in a glass house in D1 college bball.
Quote from: avid1010 on February 21, 2022, 07:02:05 PM
I loved the UW AD's comments about sportsmenship and a high standard in the Big 10. A few thoughts...
1. Barry Alvarez and a student
2. Bo Ryan misuse of resources for an affair
3. Brad Davison and repeates nut punches
What Howard did was ridiculous for any adult...but the AD at UW needs to STFU. Big 10 standards have been set at MSU with sexual assualts, at UW with Barry, Brett, and Bo, and at IU with Bobby Knight.
Everyone lives in a glass house in D1 college bball.
I wouldn't give it much thought. It's just jargon for the sweater vests of Madison mouth breathing Shopko Badger fans
nm
Quote from: Pakuni on February 21, 2022, 06:25:07 PM
Gard shouldn't have called a timeout.
Gard shouldn't have put his hands on Howard.
Howard's actions were outrageous regardless and deserve stiff punishment.
All these things can be (and are) true.
Agree - and add another truth:
Krabbenhoff should not have shoved the UM players, and deserves stiff punishment
Quote from: avid1010 on February 21, 2022, 07:02:05 PM
I loved the UW AD's comments about sportsmenship and a high standard in the Big 10. A few thoughts...
1. Barry Alvarez and a student
2. Bo Ryan misuse of resources for an affair
3. Brad Davison and repeates nut punches
What Howard did was ridiculous for any adult...but the AD at UW needs to STFU. Big 10 standards have been set at MSU with sexual assualts, at UW with Barry, Brett, and Bo, and at IU with Bobby Knight.
Everyone lives in a glass house in D1 college bball.
You are so very correct in your last statement!
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-met-marquette-sex-cases-20111028-story.html
Not to mention Coach Crean's oft discussed brutal treatment of staff among other things.
For every published dubious action, internet rumor, or actual Crime there are likely 4-5 more that are never revealed.
Very sad at ALL of the universities and athletic departments that look the other way to cash flow and reputation.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on February 21, 2022, 05:04:18 PM
Unless you're a crazy Madison or Michigan fan, I can't see anything but immature, egotistical idiots on both sides. No excuses are valid on either side. Just a bad look for both UW and UofM .
I don't care what the punishment is, if there is even any. I don't expect much from the Big 14
Don't you find it a bit ironic that you are calling out people for being immature, yet you incorrectly call out the Big 10 name by immaturely saying Big 14, because they expanded and now have more than 10 teams? With the same logic, shouldn't you rename the Big East conference because through expansion the name no longer reflects the geography of all of its members?
An account registered less than an hour ago that now has two lifetime posts. That's not at all suspicious Mr. Howard.
Quote from: Its DJOver on February 21, 2022, 08:56:42 PM
An account registered less than an hour ago that now has two lifetime posts. That's not at all suspicious Mr. Howard.
Nope, admitted life time Badger. Rarely ever post there and anyone for that matter. Love reading threads and respect everyone's right to opinions and passion around home team! Call it bad day or whatever, but the hypocrisy fired me up. Just felt I should point it out. Lot of great posters in every fan base along with complete blindly biased idiots in the same fan bases.
Lol. Whatever you say
Quote from: What on February 21, 2022, 08:38:22 PM
Don't you find it a bit ironic that you are calling out people for being immature, yet you incorrectly call out the Big 10 name by immaturely saying Big 14, because they expanded and now have more than 10 teams? With the same logic, shouldn't you rename the Big East conference because through expansion the name no longer reflects the geography of all of its members?
That's not irony.
Quote from: MUDPT on February 21, 2022, 09:09:47 PM
That's not irony.
Great point reaffirming my career choice of engineering and poor ACT score in English. Which by the way would be moot now, cause fine universities no longer require ACT scores for entrance. Just have to show you can cover tuition, I guess.
Off the subject did anyone see the Davison/Dickinson play? Was that another intentional nut "altercation".?
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 21, 2022, 09:22:17 PM
Off the subject did anyway see the Davison/Dickinson play? Was that another intentional nut "altercation".?
Shot to the stomach. Don't know if it was intentional. Might have knocked the wind out of Dickinson.
Quote from: TedBaxter on February 21, 2022, 09:30:03 PM
Shot to the stomach. Don't know if it was intentional. Might have knocked the wind out of Dickinson.
Is it wrong to assume it was intentional? We're talking about a dude with a litany of highly questionable "accidental" plays.
Pretty innocuous but it's him, so who knows https://mobile.twitter.com/WoodsFootball/status/1495482605688565764
Hard to tell from that angle.
Quote from: What on February 21, 2022, 08:38:22 PM
Don't you find it a bit ironic that you are calling out people for being immature, yet you incorrectly call out the Big 10 name by immaturely saying Big 14, because they expanded and now have more than 10 teams? With the same logic, shouldn't you rename the Big East conference because through expansion the name no longer reflects the geography of all of its members?
I think 'What' is a very appropriate name for you.
Big 14 = Immature? That was a real gem of a reply. I know UW-Madison alum and they are smarter and more intellectually honest than to craft that sort of response. I hope you mature before you graduate.
I prefer calling them the Big 10-12-14
Quote from: What on February 21, 2022, 08:38:22 PM
Don't you find it a bit ironic that you are calling out people for being immature, yet you incorrectly call out the Big 10 name by immaturely saying Big 14, because they expanded and now have more than 10 teams? With the same logic, shouldn't you rename the Big East conference because through expansion the name no longer reflects the geography of all of its members?
I like B1?
Howard treated Krabbenhoft's face like Davison treats opponents midsections and groins.
I can't believe it but UofM is coming out of this looking better than UW. Michigan called to apologize and suspendered its coach and Howard issued an apology. They owned it. A very classy response from them on an embarrassing incident. UW is crickets.
Love them or hate them (I'm no fan) but Michigan always is a first class institution.
Quote from: tower912 on February 22, 2022, 07:41:37 AM
Howard treated Krabbenhoft's face like Davison treats opponents midsections and groins.
I didn't see him lick Krabbenhoft??
Howard apologized?
He did.
Davison has gotten really good at making an intentional elbow shot to the solar plexus look routine. He still gets away with a lot of that sh!t.
Just to stir the pot:
https://twitter.com/MUOverload/status/1496146138176626688?s=20&t=j3CrRhLItC5szuhW0YrsUQ
(https://c.tenor.com/GpNZ-D16f9MAAAAC/airplane-plug.gif)
Quote from: PE8983 on February 22, 2022, 09:37:57 AM
Howard apologized?
He apologized via a prepared statement released by the university:
After taking time to reflect on all that happened, I realize how unacceptable both my actions and words were, and how they affected so many. I am truly sorry.
I am offering my sincerest apology to my players and their families, my staff, my family and the Michigan fans around the world. I would like to personally apologize to Wisconsin's Assistant Coach Joe Krabbenhoft and his family, too.
Lastly, I speak a lot about being a Michigan man and representing the University of Michigan with class and pride. I did not do that, nor did I set the right example in the right way for my student-athletes. I will learn from this mistake, and this mistake will never happen again. No excuses!Given his totally unrepentant tone after the game, I'm not sure how much he really wanted to apologize. And these things are almost always composed by P.R. people, so it's hard to know which of those words and feelings actually were Howard's -- and what his bosses told him they expected him to say. But sure, maybe after a day of reflecting, he really did feel bad about it.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on February 22, 2022, 09:13:40 AM
Love them or hate them (I'm no fan) but Michigan always is a first class institution.
Of course, what would have been really classy would have been Howard and Michigan not letting what happened Sunday happen at all, but yeah, it was a nicely crafted statement.
And yes, it was better than anything Madison presented. Their AD absolved Gard and Krabbenhoft of all blame and even said the university would pay Gard's $10K fine. That'll teach 'em!
https://www.mlive.com/wolverines/2022/02/phil-martelli-will-be-michigans-head-coach-during-juwan-howards-suspension.html
Michigan will have an experienced pro running the team in Howard's absence.
Quote from: MU82 on February 22, 2022, 10:02:54 AM
Of course, what would have been really classy would have been Howard and Michigan not letting what happened Sunday happen at all, but yeah, it was a nicely crafted statement.
And yes, it was better than anything Madison presented. Their AD absolved Gard and Krabbenhoft of all blame and even said the university would pay Gard's $10K fine. That'll teach 'em!
I agree it would have been much classier that it never happened. I have stated that multiple times. Both Mich and Wisc look like idiots. Too bad only Michigan acted like the responsible adults afterwards.
Would love to know what Krabb said. It's not like Juwan just decided to punch/slap his head. Couldn't it be argued that Krabb's head got in the way of Juwan stretching his arm? Yeah, that's it. Krabb's big head got in the way. Suspend him. Gard is a hayseed from a little town called Cobb, WI. Suspend Gard too...for being a hick. Suspend 'em all, and Fluffy too, I say.
Grabbenhoft already had handfuls of UM players jerseys.
Quote from: tower912 on February 22, 2022, 10:28:27 AM
Grabbenhoft already had handfuls of UM players jerseys.
I think this is it. It seemed what really set Howard off was Krabbenhoft putting his hands on the Michigan players.
Quote from: cheebs09 on February 22, 2022, 10:32:41 AM
I think this is it. It seemed what really set Howard off was Krabbenhoft putting his hands on the Michigan players.
Mostly agreed, but also wonder why Howard didn't just say that if that's the case? In neither the post game press conference or the apology a day later did he say, "I shouldn't have put my hands on anyone, but when you're putting your hands on my players that's unacceptable and I'm not going to stand for that. If you have a problem you come at me, not at my players." He had a ready made excuse for himself where he could've actually come off looking pretty good (I'm just defending my players, end of story), but instead he claimed Gard calling a timeout is what set it all off.
Weird, guess UW and UM are a match made in Big Something heaven.
Quote from: BLM on February 22, 2022, 10:47:51 AM
Mostly agreed, but also wonder why Howard didn't just say that if that's the case? In neither the post game press conference or the apology a day later did he say, "I shouldn't have put my hands on anyone, but when you're putting your hands on my players that's unacceptable and I'm not going to stand for that. If you have a problem you come at me, not at my players." He had a ready made excuse for himself where he could've actually come off looking pretty good (I'm just defending my players, end of story), but instead he claimed Gard calling a timeout is what set it all off.
I agree that Howard should have made this case at his post-game presser rather than sounding like a lunatic ranting and raving about a time-out.
By the time Michigan demanded the statement from him, it was too late. The statement was about eating crow and promising it wouldn't happen again. Whoever wrote it wasn't about to re-litigate the event.