I came up in a thread the other day that I can't find. A lot of people wanting to use certain recruiting rankings to make their own points....somewhere it came up about Jamil Wilson being a "must get" and also talking about our inability to get "4 & 5 star players".
Fact is, we've landed plenty of 4 star players the last 10 years.
Jamil Wilson, at least according to Rivals, is a 4 star as well.
http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=66544
Erik Williams, by the way, ranked 92nd and also a 4 star. But you should see North Carolina's 2009 class....4 guys in the top 35
http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewrank.asp?SID=910&Year=&ra_key=1642
Erik Williams is going to move up a lot in the 2009 rankings when they update them again from what I've read in articles on Rivals and other recruiting sites. He was very impressive in a prestigous holiday tournament that's in the Houston area every year at the end of December. Many of the so called "experts" from the recruiting services were on hand and wrote in their reports from the tournament that Williams would move up in their 2009 rankings. Some recruiting serivices even say he could be a Top 30 guy in 2009 - this was either HoopScoop or Hoopmasters Van Coleman. I can't remember. Keep in mind that Williams did break his ankle though right after that tournament so hopefully that doesn't hamper him come AAU time.
Scout has Wilson as the #6 recruit in the country.
I got a subscription to Hoopmasters so I went back and looked what Van Coleman had to say in his report from that tournament. By the way, the tourney is called "Houston versus the Nation". Here's the little blurb Coleman had about Erik Williams:
Erik Williams 6-foot-7 WF Cypress Cy Springs (Tex.) - (Marquette) Another solid top thirty type prospect who can knock down perimeter jumper or explode to hoop and create highlights at the rim. He has a real nose for the ball and is willing to do dirty work for his club. Look for him to make an immediate impact for the Golden Eagles.
Jamil Wilson is usually a top 10 in the country, doubt he is a 4 star anywhere.
I thought erik williams broke his ankle. If that is the case he probably drops in rankings. Out of sight out of mind.
Quote from: bilsu on February 13, 2008, 09:46:07 PM
I thought erik williams broke his ankle. If that is the case he probably drops in rankings. Out of sight out of mind.
Correct. He broke it late November.
Quote from: Mayor McCheese on February 13, 2008, 09:34:50 PM
Jamil Wilson is usually a top 10 in the country, doubt he is a 4 star anywhere.
Well I gave a link to rivals where he is a 4 star
Lets hope Williams shows up. He will be under tremendous pressure to stay in state at either UT or A&M.
As to Wison, as stated b/4, he will not be at MU unless to play a pick-up game.
Hasn't Williams already committed? doubt he'd back out since we showed interest in him as early as we did unless he had some family troubles or something else similar, heaven forbid.
Quote from: Marquette65 on February 13, 2008, 10:09:33 PM
Lets hope Williams shows up. He will be under tremendous pressure to stay in state at either UT or A&M.
As to Wison, as stated b/4, he will not be at MU unless to play a pick-up game.
Williams never even thought about visiting other campuses. He seemed determined to A.) Come to Marquette B.) Really likes Buzz Williams?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 13, 2008, 09:52:13 PM
Quote from: Mayor McCheese on February 13, 2008, 09:34:50 PM
Jamil Wilson is usually a top 10 in the country, doubt he is a 4 star anywhere.
Well I gave a link to rivals where he is a 4 star
yea I saw that link... That was news to me, everywhere I looked he was in top 10. And yes, Jamil Wilson is leaving the state
Quote from: marqptm on February 13, 2008, 09:48:29 PM
Quote from: bilsu on February 13, 2008, 09:46:07 PM
I thought erik williams broke his ankle. If that is the case he probably drops in rankings. Out of sight out of mind.
Correct. He broke it late November.
Incorrect. He broke it in early January.
http://community.sportsbubbler.com/forums/p/31302/70208.aspx
By the way, if you read my above post you would have seen that he played in a big national tournament at the end of December. As for those of you that think Williams ranking will go down some I think it's unlikely. He should be back in time for this upcoming AAU season if his rehab goes as planned. These recruiting services really use the AAU circuit as their main determing factor into where they rank players. Also, it's not like Williams didn't show what he had in that tourney at the end of this past December, which I might add was against top notch high school talent. Prior that tourney he was also playing very good basketball leading his team to some big victories over top teams in the Houston area.
If you guys know so much about Jamil name your sources... where is he going... how do you know... if you provide me with that i will believe you however id be willing to bet nobody knows right now. I don't even think Jamil knows yet.
Quote from: tomcrean4pres on February 13, 2008, 11:43:01 PM
If you guys know so much about Jamil name your sources... where is he going... how do you know... if you provide me with that i will believe you however id be willing to bet nobody knows right now. I don't even think Jamil knows yet.
Yeah, exactly. I know I've read where Jamil clearly states he wants to be able to come in and play right away without basically a logjam at his postion. Something that shouldn't be too surprising I guess.
Based on the video I've seen, the scouting reports and first-hand accounts from extremely knowledgable basketball minds I know personally, Jamil is a TOP NOTCH STUD. He would be a recruiting bastion and an incredible player, able to do impact freshman style things (rose, gordon, etc.)
Quote from: DonCornholeone on February 13, 2008, 11:59:43 PM
Based on the video I've seen, the scouting reports and first-hand accounts from extremely knowledgable basketball minds I know personally, Jamil is a TOP NOTCH STUD. He would be a recruiting bastion and an incredible player, able to do impact freshman style things (rose, gordon, etc.)
I don't know about that. Rose and Gordon and Love and Beasley all had one skill at this point that put them ahead of the competition, whether it was shooting, passing, ability off the dribble etc.
Wilson doesn't have that. He's extremely athletic...but thats about it. He's not a good shooter, whether its mid-range or beyond the arc, its something he really has to work on. He has the ability to drive to the hole, but doesn't finish well. He doesn't pass well at all. He plays barely passable defense for long stretches of time, he loses focus and often seems to not be paying attention on the court. And he's already been suspended and missed time for violating team rules in HS. The only thing he's really good at right now is post moves, and he's simply not big enough to play there at the next level.
He's got a long way to go to even dream about being on the same level as Gordon, Rose, etc.
We better hope Buzz Williams sticks around next year.
w/o out disclosing " sources" and lets assume grades etc. are in order lets look out why Wilson will not be at MU
* Wilson's had some on court-off court problems and ,as we saw last year, TC is very big on character
* If Wison was solid on MU there would be an verbal already
* Wison's list includes a number of schools whose style of play is more what he is looking for.
* Wilson , at present, is most interested in Duke, Tenn, UCLA with believe it or not Wisc. He believes that all but Wisc. is best suited to how he plays.
Quote from: bilsu on February 13, 2008, 09:46:07 PM
I thought erik williams broke his ankle. If that is the case he probably drops in rankings. Out of sight out of mind.
Not really. The rankings these days are based more on AAU play then high school play.
Iman Shumpert is an outstanding AAU player and a very good high school player. His high ranking reflects his AAU performances. The opposite with Nick Williams. Williams is a good AAU player and a outstanding high school player. His rankings have rarely moved.
Erik Williams could sit out this high school season, blow up in AAU over this summer and be a top 50 guy heading into his Senior season.
Quote from: Marquette65 on February 14, 2008, 10:25:30 AM
w/o out disclosing " sources" and lets assume grades etc. are in order lets look out why Wilson will not be at MU
* Wilson's had some on court-off court problems and ,as we saw last year, TC is very big on character
* If Wison was solid on MU there would be an verbal already
* Wison's list includes a number of schools whose style of play is more what he is looking for.
* Wilson , at present, is most interested in Duke, Tenn, UCLA with believe it or not Wisc. He believes that all but Wisc. is best suited to how he plays.
I haven't heard much about his character problems. In fact, a lot of what you read in the local press talks about Wilson being a very level headed kid for all the of the attention he receives and the family tragedy he went through in the past year.
The talk of Wilson being solid on MU without a verbal is bullcrap. As another example of a highly rated Wisconsin product, Brian Butch was always going to attend Wisconsin and yet he let his recruitment go on and on and on.
When you bring up style of play you mentioned 4 teams that are not the same style. Wisconsin and UCLA don't get up and down the floor like Tennessee or Duke. The first two have a very structured system in which they run their offense. Tennessee doesn't have much of a offensive system at all. And Duke is mostly concerned with motion and looking for a perimeter shot. I'm not sure why those 4 teams would fit Wilson's style moreso then Marquette would and you even mention that Wisconsin wouldn't fit yet you say he is interested in Wisconsin. That seems incongruant.
Finally, you started by writing that we have to assume Wilson's grades are in order. Again, I've never seen anything that questioned his academic qualification and by all accounts his academics won't be an issue for whichever school he wants to attend.
Nick Williams #35
Tyshawn Taylor# 90
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/espn150?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb%2frecruiting%2ftracke
r%2fespn150
The comments on this board about Jamil Wilson and his current situation as it relates to recruiting are WAY, WAY off base. In the end, he may or may not attend Marquette or Wisconsin, but absolutely NO decision has been made to date.
Quote from: Marquette65 on February 14, 2008, 10:25:30 AM
w/o out disclosing " sources" and lets assume grades etc. are in order lets look out why Wilson will not be at MU
* Wilson's had some on court-off court problems and ,as we saw last year, TC is very big on character
* If Wison was solid on MU there would be an verbal already
* Wison's list includes a number of schools whose style of play is more what he is looking for.
* Wilson , at present, is most interested in Duke, Tenn, UCLA with believe it or not Wisc. He believes that all but Wisc. is best suited to how he plays.
Do your sources also think McNeal is the two time Big East defender of the year? :o
Quote from: Coobeys Oil Depot on February 14, 2008, 10:44:52 AM
Quote from: Marquette65 on February 14, 2008, 10:25:30 AM
w/o out disclosing " sources" and lets assume grades etc. are in order lets look out why Wilson will not be at MU
* Wilson's had some on court-off court problems and ,as we saw last year, TC is very big on character
* If Wison was solid on MU there would be an verbal already
* Wison's list includes a number of schools whose style of play is more what he is looking for.
* Wilson , at present, is most interested in Duke, Tenn, UCLA with believe it or not Wisc. He believes that all but Wisc. is best suited to how he plays.
I haven't heard much about his character problems. In fact, a lot of what you read in the local press talks about Wilson being a very level headed kid for all the of the attention he receives and the family tragedy he went through in the past year.
The talk of Wilson being solid on MU without a verbal is bullcrap. As another example of a highly rated Wisconsin product, Brian Butch was always going to attend Wisconsin and yet he let his recruitment go on and on and on.
When you bring up style of play you mentioned 4 teams that are not the same style. Wisconsin and UCLA don't get up and down the floor like Tennessee or Duke. The first two have a very structured system in which they run their offense. Tennessee doesn't have much of a offensive system at all. And Duke is mostly concerned with motion and looking for a perimeter shot. I'm not sure why those 4 teams would fit Wilson's style moreso then Marquette would and you even mention that Wisconsin wouldn't fit yet you say he is interested in Wisconsin. That seems incongruant.
Finally, you started by writing that we have to assume Wilson's grades are in order. Again, I've never seen anything that questioned his academic qualification and by all accounts his academics won't be an issue for whichever school he wants to attend.
Methinks Marquette65 is a troll
Let me see if I got this right, according to Marq65 the highly ranked recruit from out of the area, who flew to MU on his own dime and has already verballed won't be coming to MU because local factions will be able to change his mind, and the local highly ranked recruit who many including those close to his AAu coach feel MU is in nice shape with won't be coming because outside factions will be able to grab him away. Wow Marq65 you have some great information I guess it is lucky that we have gotten enough players to even field a team. :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
Quote from: Marquette65 on February 14, 2008, 10:25:30 AM
w/o out disclosing " sources" and lets assume grades etc. are in order lets look out why Wilson will not be at MU
* Wilson's had some on court-off court problems and ,as we saw last year, TC is very big on character
* If Wison was solid on MU there would be an verbal already
* Wison's list includes a number of schools whose style of play is more what he is looking for.
* Wilson , at present, is most interested in Duke, Tenn, UCLA with believe it or not Wisc. He believes that all but Wisc. is best suited to how he plays.
So Wilson has on-court/off-court issues that will turn TC off, but he would be a good character fit for Coach K at Duke? Did I get that right? The former Knight assistant and Army coach who blesses himself on the bench as he says a Hail Mary before every game?
Quote from: Marquette65 on February 14, 2008, 10:25:30 AM
* If Wison was solid on MU there would be an verbal already
Just to pile on, if Wison (Wilson?) was that solid (sold?) on any school, there would be a verbal already.
Chicos,
What are you trying to say as in what is your thesis? Marquette has gotten 4 star recruits but not many of them or at least not enough to make a difference in the last 3 years - and it shows too by the amount of NCAA wins Tom has gotten recently.
Are you downplaying the importance of Jamil Wilson? In addition, you make it seem that he is overrated and not very good and then you talk about a future recruit that is a four star recruit. Erik Williams has a long way to go before he enrolls at Marquette, other stuff can happen within that time and comparing the two doesn't seem like a intelligent thing to do.
Jamil Wilson should be a very important recruit for the staff since he lives in Wisconsin and is a top 25 player in the country unlike Erik Williams. Jamil has proven himself at the high school level and most schools would love to have a kid like that but not you of course . . . which I cannot figure out. No one hedges their bets on one recruit but to imply he is not important is absurd.
I assume, always a bad thing, that neither Pardner or warriormall82 are MU grads. They sure don't read what is written very well.
The list of schools that I gave for Wilson is what HE is interested in NOT who have offered.
After Williams went to Midnight Maddness and committed on the spot is was widely reported that either his father or coach( don't rem which one) said that they were very surprised at the verbal because there was no intention to do that and that Williams just got caught up in the emotion of the night. Although I don't live in Texas,I do live in a " southern" state. There is tremendous pressure on the kids to stay in state. Pressure I rerally didn't understand until I lived here of a while. I would feel much more comfortable if Williams would re-state his verbal. If I remember there was the same concern w/ the kid from Bama
Quote from: thatman32 on February 14, 2008, 03:40:47 PM
Chicos,
What are you trying to say as in what is your thesis? Marquette has gotten 4 star recruits but not many of them or at least not enough to make a difference in the last 3 years - and it shows too by the amount of NCAA wins Tom has gotten recently.
Are you downplaying the importance of Jamil Wilson? In addition, you make it seem that he is overrated and not very good and then you talk about a future recruit that is a four star recruit. Erik Williams has a long way to go before he enrolls at Marquette, other stuff can happen within that time and comparing the two doesn't seem like a intelligent thing to do.
Jamil Wilson should be a very important recruit for the staff since he lives in Wisconsin and is a top 25 player in the country unlike Erik Williams. Jamil has proven himself at the high school level and most schools would love to have a kid like that but not you of course . . . which I cannot figure out. No one hedges their bets on one recruit but to imply he is not important is absurd.
I'm not downplaying anything about Wilson. I think some others said that no recruit is a "MUST GET" and I absolutely agree with that. Others said he is a MUST GET, which I don't agree with. I hope we get him, if we don't then that's life. He's very highly rated. One of the original reasons I posted this thread was that another thread said how we don't land 4 and 5 star recruits. Quite the contrary, we've landed plenty of 4 star recruits...not 5's, but few do.
The other reason I posted it is that some posters here like to take shots at our players on the current roster (or perhaps shots at our coach) based on where they are ranked, when they seem to purposely pick the lowest ranking possible. I was playing a bit of tit-for-tat showing that it's possible to find a major service like rivals that doesn't put Wilson as a 5 star player, just as other posters love to say Trevor isn't a 4 star or whatever. These games can be played all day...unfortunately.
Quote from: Marquette65 on February 14, 2008, 04:48:08 PM
I assume, always a bad thing, that neither Pardner or warriormall82 are MU grads. They sure don't read what is written very well.
The list of schools that I gave for Wilson is what HE is interested in NOT who have offered.
After Williams went to Midnight Maddness and committed on the spot is was widely reported that either his father or coach( don't rem which one) said that they were very surprised at the verbal because there was no intention to do that and that Williams just got caught up in the emotion of the night. Although I don't live in Texas,I do live in a " southern" state. There is tremendous pressure on the kids to stay in state. Pressure I rerally didn't understand until I lived here of a while. I would feel much more comfortable if Williams would re-state his verbal. If I remember there was the same concern w/ the kid from Bama
And that kid from Bama is still coming to Marquette.
But yes, a verbal is as good as the piece of paper written on it, especially in the South where it seems that verbals don't mean a thing to a lot of these coaches (for that matter, Kelvin Sampson in the midwest).
There's always going to be pressure for a kid to stay in one place vs another, but I don't recall any player verbally to MU that has not come through on his commitment under Crean. Mike Deane had one bolt on him, so did Bob Dukiet. Maybe there was one for Crean, I just don't recall it.
Quote from: Marquette65 on February 14, 2008, 04:48:08 PM
I assume, always a bad thing, that neither Pardner or warriormall82 are MU grads. They sure don't read what is written very well.
The list of schools that I gave for Wilson is what HE is interested in NOT who have offered.
After Williams went to Midnight Maddness and committed on the spot is was widely reported that either his father or coach( don't rem which one) said that they were very surprised at the verbal because there was no intention to do that and that Williams just got caught up in the emotion of the night. Although I don't live in Texas,I do live in a " southern" state. There is tremendous pressure on the kids to stay in state. Pressure I rerally didn't understand until I lived here of a while. I would feel much more comfortable if Williams would re-state his verbal. If I remember there was the same concern w/ the kid from Bama
Thanks for the kind personal words, although I wish you would at least quote me correctly--I don't remember using the word "offered" in my post, but whatever. I am glad to join the group (TC, the team, our recruits) that you have cast aspersions on in all your 12 posts. Yes, I was able to graduate somehow. It was a sad day after eight years of hard undergrad work. My favorite class was logic (I passed the third time through) where I learned about tautologies--which in your case, I attempted to apply to your posts.
First, you dismiss JW's interest in Marquette because of TC's hurdle about having "character" recruits which you imply JW has problems with. Then, you dismiss JW's interest in MU because of style of play. Then, you mention four schools JW has "interest" in. Then, you list three of the schools whose style of play he likes that have as disparate offenses as you can get...and a fourth whose style doesn't fit his, but he still has "interest" in.
So, trying to follow that logic, I asked you a couple of clarifying questions about your "scoop"--mainly why would you think that Duke would have "interest" in JW if he has on-court/off-court character issues when Coach K has as high a standard or higher than TC? Or, conversely, why would JW think that Duke would have less of an issue with his character than TC?
Are there any other TC recruits you missed that won't be coming to MU? Thanks
nice, but quick blurb on WISN TV sports tonight about Wilson...
said he's the next great Racine player after Mac and that one kid from there who went to cincy oh what was his name (ahem).... and someone else--- some Jones, or Chones or some dude like that.
indicated that MU is very high on him coming.
fwiw
Quote from: TVDirector on February 14, 2008, 07:48:07 PM
nice, but quick blurb on WISN TV sports tonight about Wilson...
said he's the next great Racine player after Mac and that one kid from there who went to cincy oh what was his name (ahem).... and someone else--- some Jones, or Chones or some dude like that.
indicated that MU is very high on him coming.
fwiw
Nick Van Exel....now there was a guy with character issues. ;)
He forgot about Caron Butler, a Racine native who went to prep school on the east coast. And Van Exel was a Kenosha by product.
I was thinking butler...
but, yeah, vanexout... there was a duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude.
kenosha, racine, whatever it takes.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 14, 2008, 08:05:57 PM
Quote from: TVDirector on February 14, 2008, 07:48:07 PM
nice, but quick blurb on WISN TV sports tonight about Wilson...
said he's the next great Racine player after Mac and that one kid from there who went to cincy oh what was his name (ahem).... and someone else--- some Jones, or Chones or some dude like that.
indicated that MU is very high on him coming.
fwiw
Nick Van Exel....now there was a guy with character issues. ;)
MacIlvaine was good shot blocker as are most 7'1" college players and that's it. Van Exel and Butler achieved much more than him in college and the pros and hopefully Wilson does too He still has the biggest WTF was that team (Seattle) thinking contract of any NBA player and that is saying something with that league. More power to him though.
AAU solidifies and affects the rankings way way way more than High school. Most kids unless they are LA or Chccago or Ny public or suburban league types do not get to play against the type of competition that is required to properly rate a kid NAtionally, Bryan Butch or Sam Okey ptutting up 30+ and 10+ with 10 Blocks in some hinterland Wisconsin conference playing against a bunch of Scandanavians that only play BBall to warm up after ice fishing is not much of a way to rate players. But if they go to the Big Time event or Kingswood etc, and play on a team of big time talent against a team of big time talent and impress on a continuos basis then you know you have something. Look at Chrsistoperson, not knocking him I think he will do fine at MU. But what does 30 agame in Lacrosse mean? It means he is by far the best 6 foot Scandanavian in western wisonsin...whooooooppee! And yes he make look tremendously athletic against thos e types but how is difficult to measure or assume. I have seen tons of kids put up 25-30 agme and dominate in HS that had no business playing D1. those kids get exposed even bigger time in open aau tournaments
Quote from: Marquette65 on February 14, 2008, 04:48:08 PM
I assume, always a bad thing, that neither Pardner or warriormall82 are MU grads. They sure don't read what is written very well.
The list of schools that I gave for Wilson is what HE is interested in NOT who have offered.
After Williams went to Midnight Maddness and committed on the spot is was widely reported that either his father or coach( don't rem which one) said that they were very surprised at the verbal because there was no intention to do that and that Williams just got caught up in the emotion of the night. Although I don't live in Texas,I do live in a " southern" state. There is tremendous pressure on the kids to stay in state. Pressure I rerally didn't understand until I lived here of a while. I would feel much more comfortable if Williams would re-state his verbal. If I remember there was the same concern w/ the kid from Bama
Wow wrong so many times in one post, yes I am a graduate of MU, the aau coach and another very close person to Jamil have told me personally that he is very interested in MU along with others, so your list is incomplete, and living in a southern state how do you know his interested schools, EW's father stated that his son's verbal surprised him because of how quickly it came out, but was enthusiastically behind it and said he was very comfortable with his choice, I also am now residing in a southern state and there is indeed a lot of pressure to stay in state, however every state has quite a few recruits leave the state and a fair amount even head to the north. I also try not to assume , however if one is to assume, it seems to me that since the very high percentage of bball players who do verbal end up attending the school that they verballed to, one would have to ASSUME that he will come to MU.
Please talk to your personal friend of Jamil and insist he play at MU. It would be nice to get the 6th ranked prospect (Scout) in the United States.