1) Xavier
2) UCONN
How would you approach these games strategy wise if you were Shaka? I don't think we can run with either team. Let's say you had full control of the situation, what would you do to give us the best chance to win? Maybe it's me, and I don't have a lot of answers, but I'm hoping we try some new things on the 18th.
Shaka is a systems coach. We are not going to try new things, at least not drastic new things. Maybe change up the substitution pattern. Maybe run a few more set plays. But you're not going to see a brand new gameplan from game to game.
I think the adjustments he will make will be in the rotation. He is not changing the system but can tinker with the rotation.
TAMU
I think we agree that they cannot buy a hoop at the moment and that is big problem. Have you seen enough of the ten guys to believe they are capable of much better shooting?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 12, 2021, 10:21:31 AM
Shaka is a systems coach. We are not going to try new things, at least not drastic new things. Maybe change up the substitution pattern. Maybe run a few more set plays. But you're not going to see a brand new gameplan from game to game.
.
Xavier is a very good transition team and have a couple of quality bigs but not really a shot blocker They're also very physical on the ball and an average shooting team. I expect some zone but I think we have to find a way to match their physicality.
I'm confident Kam, Elliott, Morsell, and Joplin will all end up shooting 33% or better this season. All of their strokes look good.
Lewis, the stroke looks good but I'm not convinced he's a 3P shooter yet.
O-Max isn't there yet. I think the speed of the game is way too much for him at the moment. If he can put it together, I see potential there.
Stevie is too hesitant right now. I think he can shoot but he's passing up wide open looks.
Kolek...the 53 made threes on 36% shooting from last season makes me want to believe that he will get there but man his shot is ugly looking. Not sure what happened between last season and this one or if that's always been his shot
The system and approach won't change. All that can change is rotation and minutes.
I thought OMP should have started instead of Kam against UCLA due to match ups. If the other team is big, start OMP.
More Greg. It isn't a coincidence that a guy with a lot of experience had success last night while young guys struggled.
Every game of the season from here on out is considered the biggest game of the season.
These next two seem like they have added importance.
X and UConn are both top 15 in the NET.
Winning 1 would get MU back to a better NET than before the UCLA game.
Losing both isn't a season ender, but it feels to me like this is a point in the season where stealing one would go a long way towards a potential bid.
I've given up any hope on winning both until I see better, but if I'm being honest I feel like MU typically plays X well and if we can steal one on Saturday I wouldn't be at all surprised to carry the momentum to a home win over UConn.
So I guess I haven't given up hope, I've just convinced myself how important Saturday's game is
Quote from: DoctorV on December 12, 2021, 11:13:10 AM
Every game of the season from here on out is considered the biggest game of the season.
These next two seem like they have added importance.
X and UConn are both top 15 in the NET.
Winning 1 would get MU back to a better NET than before the UCLA game.
Losing both isn't a season ender, but it feels to me like this is a point in the season where stealing one would go a long way towards a potential bid.
I've given up any hope on winning both until I see better, but if I'm being honest I feel like MU typically plays X well and if we can steal one on Saturday I wouldn't be at all surprised to carry the momentum to a home win over UConn.
So I guess I haven't given up hope, I've just convinced myself how important Saturday's game is
Completely agree Dr. V.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 12, 2021, 10:33:24 AM
I'm confident Kam, Elliott, Morsell, and Joplin will all end up shooting 33% or better this season. All of their strokes look good.
I really like the ball off the hand of Kam and Joplin. Both have very nice form and I usually think they're going in. Elliott's shot is the only one I "trust," though, because he's the only one who has made shots at this level over any stretch of time, and even he hasn't had much playing time over the years.
Shaka is installing a system.....not game planning differently for each opponent.
Quote from: We R Final Four on December 12, 2021, 02:51:32 PM
Shaka is installing a system.....not game planning differently for each opponent.
So, you are saying he cannot coach. Good coaches adjust to talent and the opponents.
The system is broken with the talent this year. Centers with no offensive skills, forwards that together are average, and point guard that is questionable in certain areas of his game. Trying to play fast and basically just throw up bad 3 pointers is not in this teams DNA
Quote from: BCHoopster on December 12, 2021, 05:30:32 PM
The system is broken with the talent this year. Centers with no offensive skills, forwards that together are average, and point guard that is questionable in certain areas of his game. Trying to play fast and basically just throw up bad 3 pointers is not in this teams DNA
This is what I'm questioning but I tend to be a bit bipolar. I'm just not sure we have the personnel to have any consistency playing this style. We did look great against Mississippi and West V. Defensively we have also had our moments. The real issue is we don't have a guy who can put his head down and make things happen (a.k.a zoomability), and we're not draining threes. I would imagine Shaka will snag a burner and a spot shooter n the near future. I think we're definitely going to. be fine and the future is bright, I just didn't anticipate the struggles of some of our guys.
Why not? Other than Kolek thanks to his recent slump, which player who had actually played D1 basketball before is performing worse than they did last year? This has always been a team with no proven scoring and little experience. That they are 8-3 is a tribute to defense and grit.
Quote from: tower912 on December 12, 2021, 06:42:30 PM
Why not? Other than Kolek thanks to his recent slump, which player who had actually played D1 basketball before is performing worse than they did last year? This has always been a team with no proven scoring and little experience. That they are 8-3 is a tribute to defense and grit.
After taking a breath, amazed by the defense against UCLA.
But yeah, offense needs to take a step
Quote from: tower912 on December 12, 2021, 06:42:30 PM
Why not? Other than Kolek thanks to his recent slump, which player who had actually played D1 basketball before is performing worse than they did last year? This has always been a team with no proven scoring and little experience. That they are 8-3 is a tribute to defense and grit.
We have multiple guys with experience on this team Tower. And you can see the athleticism of O-Max and Kuath. I look at more than the results on paper. i ask myself if we can match-up with the top tier of our league and if we're playing better than the first few games. Needless to say the last three games have been a gut-punch to MU fans. In the end we'll be alright but we have to acknowledge reality.
Yes, we do.
Quote from: BCHoopster on December 12, 2021, 05:30:32 PM
The system is broken with the talent this year. Centers with no offensive skills, forwards that together are average, and point guard that is questionable in certain areas of his game. Trying to play fast and basically just throw up bad 3 pointers is not in this teams DNA
Well, this is an indictment of Shaka as a coach, whether you mean it to be or not. Good coaches vary and adjust their "system" to the personnel available, just as successful managers do in other types of business. I look back to Buzz coaching the "midget" team and how he realized that he had to slow the tempo and make every possession important. That team overachieved, relative to what one might have expected from their personnel, in large part because of the "system" being appropriate to what they could accomplish.
I don't want to sound argumentative. I'm so happy to be rid of Wojo, that I am willing to give Shaka a wide berth, or long leash, or whatever you want to call it. I've been re-energized vis a vis
MU hoops, but I basically agree with you. We are forcing the pace (#2 in tempo last time I checked) and putting up 3's with a team that is not comprised of proficient shooters.
Bottom line: it looks like our new coach has not followed a course which might be expected to get the best results from the abilities his players have. I'm not worried yet, I'm still psyched, but it certainly is something to think about.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on December 13, 2021, 12:57:50 PM
Well, this is an indictment of Shaka as a coach, whether you mean it to be or not. Good coaches vary and adjust their "system" to the personnel available, just as successful managers do in other types of business. I look back to Buzz coaching the "midget" team and how he realized that he had to slow the tempo and make every possession important. That team overachieved, relative to what one might have expected from their personnel, in large part because of the "system" being appropriate to what they could accomplish.
I don't want to sound argumentative. I'm so happy to be rid of Wojo, that I am willing to give Shaka a wide berth, or long leash, or whatever you want to call it. I've been re-energized vis a vis
MU hoops, but I basically agree with you. We are forcing the pace (#2 in tempo last time I checked) and putting up 3's with a team that is not comprised of proficient shooters.
Bottom line: it looks like our new coach has not followed a course which might be expected to get the best results from the abilities his players have. I'm not worried yet, I'm still psyched, but it certainly is something to think about.
I really hope not to look back at this and be wrong, but there's a very low probability we'll continue to shoot this poorly.
The strategy is very good and the execution will get better. Making shots will improve spacing and allow for more options inside out as well.
I see the current shooting woes as the foundation for future shooting success. Perhaps not this year. Coach Smart is teaching them to flay with pace and without fear. As the game slows down and sorts itself out for this very young team (351 in DI), I think the shots will fall and the offense will gel.
8-3 because of defense and heart.
Quote from: tower912 on December 13, 2021, 01:18:00 PM
I see the current shooting woes as the foundation for future shooting success. Perhaps not this year. Coach Smart is teaching them to flay with pace and without fear. As the game slows down and sorts itself out for this very young team (351 in DI), I think the shots will fall and the offense will gel.
8-3 because of defense and heart.
This makes me feel less hopeful as a fan...
QuoteFlaying, also known colloquially as skinning, is a method of slow and painful execution in which skin is removed from the body. Generally, an attempt is made to keep the removed portion of skin intact.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 13, 2021, 01:22:40 PM
This makes me feel less hopeful as a fan...
Maybe Shaka took our "must be destroyed" posts too seriously?
Bwahahahaha. The secret weapon.
Quote from: tower912 on December 13, 2021, 01:18:00 PM
I see the current shooting woes as the foundation for future shooting success. Perhaps not this year. Coach Smart is teaching them to flay with pace and without fear. As the game slows down and sorts itself out for this very young team (351 in DI), I think the shots will fall and the offense will gel.
8-3 because of defense and heart.
Tower, I certainly hope you are correct. Nevertheless, with the exception of Greg, ever single player on our roster looked as if they were strapped to chairs in Pamplona, with a herd of angry bulls kicking it into overdrive, ready to pummel and attack. They played with incalculable fear from my perspective. Letting it fly doesn't mean you are not terrified out there. It was quite noticeable and hopefully not a harbinger of things to come. I would say you are whistling dixie here on the no fear suggestion. I do agree that the game needs to slow down for us in general.
Quote from: tower912 on December 13, 2021, 01:28:52 PM
Bwahahahaha. The secret weapon.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/052/077/b48.gif)
One thing that I think keeps getting missed is that Shaka Smart has over a decade of experience as high level D1 coach and he sure as hell should know what he is doing. Getting frustrated with a young assistant, turned HC, is understandable and questioning him is great conversation. We have a guy that knows what he is doing and his earned his stripes over the years.
IMO, aside from being a very good recruiter and leader, he is a proven HC and if Shaka wants them to only take half court shots, then they should only take half court shots. I would say I am 99.9% certain that Shaka has a plan in mind, knows how or when to make adjustments and is capable of running a D1 program.
I have said a bunch over the past couple of months, I think we all forget that we have a real HC running the squad. MU had not hired an experienced HC in two decades and it easy to forget. Question Wojo or Buzz in first couple of years, I get it, but the discussions on what Shaka can and cannot do are a bit premature, IMO.
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 13, 2021, 01:44:59 PM
Tower, I certainly hope you are correct. Nevertheless, with the exception of Greg, ever single player on our roster looked as if they were strapped to chairs in Pamplona, with a herd of angry bulls kicking it into overdrive, ready to pummel and attack. They played with incalculable fear from my perspective. Letting it fly doesn't mean you are not terrified out there. It was quite noticeable and hopefully not a harbinger of things to come. I would say you are whistling dixie here on the no fear suggestion. I do agree that the game needs to slow down for us in general.
Oh the freshmen appeared self aware on Saturday. And Muggsy, I have always thought this year was about next year.
Quote from: tower912 on December 13, 2021, 02:34:39 PM
Oh the freshmen appeared self aware on Saturday. And Muggsy, I have always thought this year was about next year.
True. I can get ahead of things.
Quote from: Goose on December 13, 2021, 02:05:19 PM
One thing that I think keeps getting missed is that Shaka Smart has over a decade of experience as high level D1 coach and he sure as hell should know what he is doing. Getting frustrated with a young assistant, turned HC, is understandable and questioning him is great conversation. We have a guy that knows what he is doing and his earned his stripes over the years.
IMO, aside from being a very good recruiter and leader, he is a proven HC and if Shaka wants them to only take half court shots, then they should only take half court shots. I would say I am 99.9% certain that Shaka has a plan in mind, knows how or when to make adjustments and is capable of running a D1 program.
I have said a bunch over the past couple of months, I think we all forget that we have a real HC running the squad. MU had not hired an experienced HC in two decades and it easy to forget. Question Wojo or Buzz in first couple of years, I get it, but the discussions on what Shaka can and cannot do are a bit premature, IMO.
Right...no questioning experienced head coaches! Huh? Why should they be immune to the wrath of Fans? Shouldn't we expect more from them? Question them even more when things go badly?
Rocky
By your expectations the season has been a success thus far, what could you possibly question? You can question all you would like because I find most of your basketball related comments to be very entertaining. I actually will read your comments several times because I find them so entertaining.
Quote from: Goose on December 13, 2021, 02:46:22 PM
By your expectations the season has been a success thus far, what could you possibly question? You can question all you would like because I find most of your basketball related comments to be very entertaining. I actually will read your comments several times because I find them so entertaining.
Your digs on my hoops knowledge never disappoints. But as long as you're smiling, It's all good.
As for what I could (should) question. To this point in the year, Shaka's system has provided a very poor offensive system, and a very mediocre defensive system. Like you, I expect that to get better in the following years, but I do believe he either overestimated the talent he had coming in, or misjudged it. I expected an experienced coach to hit the ground running in a more efficient manner. So the results so far are fine, but I do believe he whiffed in this summer's transfer market and instead focused on young talent (that we all hope eventually matures).
Quote from: Goose on December 13, 2021, 02:05:19 PM
One thing that I think keeps getting missed is that Shaka Smart has over a decade of experience as high level D1 coach and he sure as hell should know what he is doing. Getting frustrated with a young assistant, turned HC, is understandable and questioning him is great conversation. We have a guy that knows what he is doing and his earned his stripes over the years.
IMO, aside from being a very good recruiter and leader, he is a proven HC and if Shaka wants them to only take half court shots, then they should only take half court shots. I would say I am 99.9% certain that Shaka has a plan in mind, knows how or when to make adjustments and is capable of running a D1 program.
I have said a bunch over the past couple of months, I think we all forget that we have a real HC running the squad. MU had not hired an experienced HC in two decades and it easy to forget. Question Wojo or Buzz in first couple of years, I get it, but the discussions on what Shaka can and cannot do are a bit premature, IMO.
Many Texas fans would have a chuckle at this, as they believe their team underachieved for most of Shaka's 6 seasons there despite him having been a heralded, experienced coach.
But that was then in Texas, this is now at Marquette, and I believe this is a better spot for him. And while I wouldn't try to muzzle our fellow Scoopers, I agree that Shaka deserves the benefit of the doubt here.
82
He did underachieve at Texas and that is why he is the coach at MU. I would say that expectations at Texas were probably higher than that of most of MU faithful have for the program. I am going with my gut, but I doubt there was much micromanaging of Shaka 11 games into his UT tenure. I just find it funny that after an 8-3 start, that few had predicted, there are so many second guessers.
Quote from: Goose on December 13, 2021, 03:23:16 PM
82
He did underachieve at Texas and that is why he is the coach at MU. I would say that expectations at Texas were probably higher than that of most of MU faithful have for the program. I am going with my gut, but I doubt there was much micromanaging of Shaka 11 games into his UT tenure. I just find it funny that after an 8-3 start, that few had predicted, there are so many second guessers.
I've been surprised by that, too.
82
I am not surprised, I think it is funny. Funny like Wojo should have been given more time or Brian Wardle should have been on our short list for new HC. I definitely am not surprised, just amused.
Quote from: Goose on December 13, 2021, 03:52:23 PM
82
I am not surprised, I think it is funny. Funny like Wojo should have been given more time or Brian Wardle should have been on our short list for new HC. I definitely am not surprised, just amused.
Or that Wojo would be (and even should be!) back for year #7.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 13, 2021, 06:38:40 PM
Or that Wojo would be (and even should be!) back for year #7.
Very few said he should be back. There probably are more Scoopers dumping on Shaka now than were saying at the end of last season Wojo should return.
I'll admit that I was among those who had no idea that Marquette had the kind of boosters who would pony up millions upon millions of dollars to get rid of a basketball coach.
I certainly am glad we have upgraded.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 13, 2021, 06:38:40 PM
Or that Wojo would be (and even should be!) back for year #7.
He was back for year 7 ;D
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 13, 2021, 09:15:45 PM
He was back for year 7 ;D
Guess I lost track. Seemed like even longer.
Anyone know what Wojo is doing nowadays???
Porky loves everyone's enthusiasm and passion but c'mon! We were picked to finish 9th in conference and as much as it pains Porky to acknowledge it, the people who are supposed to know more about these matters than us because they're paid to are usually pretty accurate. Sure we've had some solid W's and off to a better start than anyone could have reasonably expected, but Lewis aside, our talent level is middle of the road at best and we're very young. Sure we have some experience with Gregg, Darryl and Kur who are all capable high major players and thank God we do, but competition for talent is fierce and ours is middle of the road. Furthermore, these guys haven't been playing together for a quarter of a season so expectations need to be tempered. Porky has full confidence in Shaka but it's going to take time and chances are we'll be .500 by mid Jan and likely worse beyond that. Really hoping Porky is dead wrong about this but can't let a couple of unexpected W's over good teams without their best players lead Porky to believe we're better and have more potential than we really do. Shaka will eventually bring MU back to greatness but this is not our year.
Some reviews are brutal here. I never would have expected MU to be 8-3 under Wojo at this time. Shaka is 8-3 with basically an all new team...and that's settling for some guys rather than "getting" guys we pursued heavily with specific skills in mind. I'd advise us to ease up....
I like the spirit that this team has exhibited and like the growth prospects. I do expect us to be better in January than November and then better in March than January.
Shaka's an experienced D1 coach and will continue to work and teach these guys. There are some skills lacking on all guys so young but they have responded to different coaching and techniques from Wojo. A couple of fixes would help a lot.
Certainly shot selection since we just can't shoot with and degree of accuracy from 3. We need to finish when the ball gets down low or not try to when double and triple teamed. Somebody's open but have to be found. Long distance, cross court passes/lobs need to stop. Constant drives by Kolek with automatic kick outs from under the basket need to stop or do something different.... Just saying.
But lots of learning going on and I see more upside than down at this point... Let's enjoy the team and remember mistakes will be made but let's see what's learned from them. Still like 8-3 right now.
Preseason selection for 9th in the conference isn't because there are some knowledgeable people out there. It's because of the total unknown about all the new guys and turnover from last season. Doesn't take a genius to figure no one had a clue how we'd gel as a team. DePaul's picked for 10th based on past performance and the same uncertainty with a new coach, as well.
Bold prediction... Bet we AND DePaul are not 9 and 10 when the Big East winds up in March. Not conference champs but new #9 and #10 emerge other than us and DePaul....
Quote from: axaguy on December 13, 2021, 10:00:38 PM
Preseason selection for 9th in the conference isn't because there are some knowledgeable people out there. It's because of the total unknown about all the new guys and turnover from last season. Doesn't take a genius to figure no one had a clue how we'd gel as a team. DePaul's picked for 10th based on past performance and the same uncertainty with a new coach, as well.
Bold prediction... Bet we AND DePaul are not 9 and 10 when the Big East winds up in March. Not conference champs but new #9 and #10 emerge other than us and DePaul....
Hope you're right and Porky is wrong.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 13, 2021, 09:33:04 PM
Guess I lost track. Seemed like even longer.
Are Wojo years like dog years?