1. MU is a young team. Without a go to scorer. The exact same team they have been. UCLA is grown men with lots of scorers.
2. Got beat up on the boards.
3. Started slow.
4. Imagine how bad it would have been without Greg.
5. The style of play isn't going to change. Pick and roll and dribble drive. Pressure d trying for 32 deflections. No amount of kvetching is going to change it.
6. I thought Shaka played too much 3 guard offense tonight. Gave UCLA a size advantage. See: rebounding. OMP at least has the length to contest some shots and rebounds.
7. Top 5 teams sit on crosscourt passes, TK. So will conference opponents with detailed scouting reports.
8. Be honest. No one thought MU would win this game. You tried to talk yourself into it and did some whistling past the graveyard, but deep in your heart you knew.
9. I appreciate this team never stops fighting.
10. 2 games in the 50's.
11. Good luck on your finals, men.
MU needs to add talent. Until they do that, they won't be able to compete with teams like UCLA unless UCLA plays a very bad game. Even if Marquette plays well (and they didn't), they still would not have beat UCLA at home.
0 adjustments by Shaka Wojohowski.
Jaquez every time. Back down, pumpfake. Bucket.
My cousin who NEVER watches basketball literally said "that junior guy just backs down every time... are they going to defend that?"
Outside of Greg, 2-24 from 3. End of story.
u always give a pass for everything
Quote from: fjm on December 11, 2021, 10:32:28 PM
0 adjustments by Shaka Wojohowski.
Jaquez every time. Back down, pumpfake. Bucket.
My cousin who NEVER watches basketball literally said "that junior guy just backs down every time... are they going to defend that?"
You need the horses to stop it. If Justin Lewis isn't physical enough to stop it, who on the roster is? He's by far our strongest player. Jacques had no issues backing him down. Send help? They kicked it for wide open 3s and hit them.
They're a better team than us.
Quote from: TSmith34 on December 11, 2021, 10:32:51 PM
Outside of Greg, 2-24 from 3. End of story.
Coming into the season, he and Kolek were the only two proven 3 pt shooters.
Quote from: fjm on December 11, 2021, 10:32:28 PM
0 adjustments by Shaka Wojohowski.
Jaquez every time. Back down, pumpfake. Bucket.
My cousin who NEVER watches basketball literally said "that junior guy just backs down every time... are they going to defend that?"
Good lord. Are we really going to start this already?
Anyway I worry that BLM is right. I know they will get better with experience. But better enough to win games like this in a couple of years?
Depends on how many stay.
You just hope they make adjustments for Xavier.
We will see how they stack up in the Big East.
Everyone not named Greg Elliott was 2 for 24 from three. Terrible
MU again over 30 plus three point shots. That's his game.
Shaka must like Kolek, because he hardly sat after another bad game. Some coaches would say you shoot another three, you're sitting. Must be a process thing.
Shaka cutting his rotation last two games. Mitchell, Joplin and Ellis getting like one/two minutes playing time. Always tough decisions for a coach, but needs to be done.
On to the Big East with week off. Going to be tough.
Quote from: fjm on December 11, 2021, 10:32:28 PM
0 adjustments by Shaka Wojohowski.
Jaquez every time. Back down, pumpfake. Bucket.
My cousin who NEVER watches basketball literally said "that junior guy just backs down every time... are they going to defend that?"
Is this real or are you playing a character called "radio show call-in guy"?
Quote from: Johnny B on December 11, 2021, 10:34:05 PM
u always give a pass for everything
Get used to years of this.
Quote from: TSmith34 on December 11, 2021, 10:32:51 PM
Outside of Greg, 2-24 from 3. End of story.
And honestly, most of the 22 didn't have a prayer of going in. Not only did they miss, but they miss badly.
I think they fought hard but rebounding seems to be the biggest issue. Just couldn't get much momentum going when they'd get an initial stop, but give up a board.
Quote from: NolongerWarriors on December 11, 2021, 10:40:47 PM
Get used to years of this.
Congrats on the result you wanted. I know you're pissed it didn't stay in the 20s, but better luck next time.
Sorry if our coach doesn't set the right, um, "tone" for you.
Quote from: fjm on December 11, 2021, 10:32:28 PM
0 adjustments by Shaka Wojohowski-Dukiet
Jaquez every time. Back down, pumpfake. Bucket.
My cousin who NEVER watches basketball literally said "that junior guy just backs down every time... are they going to defend that?"
FIFY
I'm very pleased at being 8-3 at this point,and so would most people when the season started!
How do I ignore and stop seeing someone's posts? Do I do it through their profile? Been here a long time and don't know that which is impressive. About time though.
Stopped in for some unintentional comedy. Scoop always delivers.
Anyone not thrilled with 8-3 is a turd.
Lots of ups and downs coming over the next 3 months. Amazing how shortsighted some are - hope it's a vocal minority.
What's most disappointing about tonight isn't even the putrid shooting minus Elliott. It's more about taking quick shots and undisciplined overall play. Very poor fundamentals in stretches that allowed them way too many 2nd shots. We don't box out or go after rebounds with two hands. We don't see the floor and over dribble constantly. Our screens are sloppy and all over the place which leads to poor offensive flow and no passing angles or spacing.
The only guy who played well offensively for UCLA tonight was Jaquez. Now part of it may be the game was over in the first 10 mins but they shot like 36%.
As for the coaching decisions tonight I can't say I was thrilled. Early the game got away from us because of quick long shots and playing at a tempo that favored UCLA. If they were fresh and had a game more recently they probably would have been up 35 after 20 mins. You have to adjust based on your personnel. We actually played solid h-c defense the first 8 mins. As soon as it became a pseudo track meet it was over.
I also, and I think many scoopers would agree, don't understand why Kolek essentially played the entire game. Especially after that beyond belief stretch with plenty of time left in the 2nd half. He didn't have it and it was clear as crystal. You play Elliot or Jones and move on to the next game after a mini break. Needless to say we will have to play at a much higher level to have any chance of winning at Xavier.
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 11, 2021, 10:50:46 PM
What's most disappointing about tonight isn't even the putrid shooting minus Elliott. It's more about taking quick shots and undisciplined overall play. Very poor fundamentals in stretches that allowed them way too many 2nd shots. We don't box out or go after rebounds with two hands. We don't see the floor and over dribble constantly. Our screens are sloppy and all over the place which leads to poor offensive flow and no passing angles or spacing.
The only guy who played well offensively for UCLA tonight was Jaquez. Now part of it may be the game was over in the first 10 mins but they shot like 36%.
As for the coaching decisions tonight I can't say I was thrilled. Early the game got away from us because of quick long shots and playing at a tempo that favored UCLA. If they were fresh and had a game more recently they probably would have been up 35 after 20 mins. You have to adjust based on your personnel. We actually played solid h-c defense the first 8 mins. As soon as it became a pseudo track meet it was over.
I also, and I think many scoopers would agree, don't understand why Kolek essentially played the entire game. Especially after that beyond belief stretch with plenty of time left in the 2nd half. He didn't have it and it was clear as crystal. You play Elliot or Jones and move on to the next game after a mini break. Needless to say we will have to play at a much higher level to have any chance of winning at Xavier.
It's a double edged sword. If we slow it down, we can't score in the half court. If we speed it up, we give up easy baskets.
Quote from: NolongerWarriors on December 11, 2021, 10:40:47 PM
Get used to years of this.
Salty Wojo stans are so salty and it's so hilarious ;D
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on December 11, 2021, 10:50:15 PM
Stopped in for some unintentional comedy. Scoop always delivers.
Anyone not thrilled with 8-3 is a turd.
Lots of ups and downs coming over the next 3 months. Amazing how shortsighted some are - hope it's a vocal minority.
Agree. 8-3 is a huge success for this group. We're in a position to be on the bubble with 500 play from here on out.
There's been some reason for concern in this past week's games that lead me to believe we may have already peaked as far as this season's team success goes (ie we may fall off the cliff now).
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on December 11, 2021, 10:50:15 PM
Stopped in for some unintentional comedy. Scoop always delivers.
Anyone not thrilled with 8-3 is a turd.
Lots of ups and downs coming over the next 3 months. Amazing how shortsighted some are - hope it's a vocal minority.
We have astute fans VBM. I agree that 8-3 is 8-3 and we should be pleased with that going into the BEast schedule. But I think it's fair to share concerns after watching the last three games. The shooting is quite worrisome because we essentially put all our eggs in one basket. We play in one of the best conferences in the country and I just think tbe fans understand that we have areas we drastically need to improve.
Quote from: NickelDimer on December 11, 2021, 10:54:40 PM
Salty Wojo stans are so salty and it's so hilarious ;D
Oh, he doesn't like Wojo either, but he really hates Shaka's tone.
Quote from: Fred Garvin on December 11, 2021, 10:46:50 PM
I'm very pleased at being 8-3 at this point,and so would most people when the season started!
Yea, going into this one, I expected a rough one and got it. I think this non-conference has already been a success.
It's not always going to be pretty. Big East play will be very interesting. Especially the second leg of the round robin. I'm hoping to see improvement in the second matchups and maybe we can hang out on the bubble most of the season.
That's what I'm hoping for, ncaa bubble,not lock would be great this year!
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 11, 2021, 10:57:47 PM
We have astute fans VBM. I agree that 8-3 is 8-3 and we should be pleased with that going into the BEast schedule. But I think it's fair to share concerns after watching the last three games. The shooting is quite worrisome because we essentially put all our eggs in one basket. We play in one of the best conferences in the country and I just think tbe fans understand that we have areas we drastically need to improve.
And we have plenty of idiot fans, like any fanbase.
There's always concerns. The issue is the fans that have created unrealistic expectations for themselves with a better than expected start.
If this team is even on the bubble this season that's quite an accomplishment.
Peaks and valleys are going to happen all season. I'm all about how we're playing the last 6 weeks of the season (February going forward).
This team was picked 9th in the conference by people whose job it is to study the league and know all the teams. Yet our struggles are a shock to people whose only source of info on most of the teams is from reading articles from the very same people who made those predictions.
Quote from: BLM on December 11, 2021, 10:54:12 PM
It's a double edged sword. If we slow it down, we can't score in the half court. If we speed it up, we give up easy baskets.
I understand that but I think it's a bit more nuanced. I'm certainly not advocating we play slow but you can play fast, yielding more possessions, and consistently take bad shots. Your opponent should also impact your overall tempo. I would say that we need to understand what a good and bad shot is and that doesn't always mean heave it if you're open. I also think we need to do a far better job of screening and spacing which would lead more paint opportunities. Whatever people think of our tempo I feel the shot selection has to be better.
Quote from: CountryRoads on December 11, 2021, 10:57:29 PM
Agree. 8-3 is a huge success for this group. We're in a position to be on the bubble with 500 play from here on out.
There's been some reason for concern in this past week's games that lead me to believe we may have already peaked as far as this season's team success goes (ie we may fall off the cliff now).
We may have peaked. It's certainly possible. For me, it's all about development.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on December 11, 2021, 11:03:11 PM
And we have plenty of idiot fans, like any fanbase.
There's always concerns. The issue is the fans that have created unrealistic expectations for themselves with a better than expected start.
If this team is even on the bubble this season that's quite an accomplishment.
Peaks and valleys are going to happen all season. I'm all about how we're playing the last 6 weeks of the season (February going forward).
I agree with you here for the most part.
Quote from: nyg on December 11, 2021, 10:39:11 PM
Shaka must like Kolek, because he hardly sat after another bad game. Some coaches would say you shoot another three, you're sitting. Must be a process thing.
Kolek leads the team in assists (by a mile), steals and assist to turnover ratio. He's also the leading rebounder among our guards (God knows our front line needs help in that regard) and plays solid on ball defense. We only have one other PG (Stevie Mitchell). Like Kolek, so far he looks like a bad shooter - without as much of the other good stuff that Kolek brings.
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 11, 2021, 11:05:55 PM
I understand that but I think it's a bit more nuanced. I'm certainly not advocating we play slow but you can play fast, yielding more possessions, and consistently take bad shots. Your opponent should also impact your overall tempo. I would say that we need to understand what a good and bad shot is and that doesn't always mean heave it if you're open. I also think we need to do a far better job of screening and spacing which would lead more paint opportunities. Whatever people think of our tempo I feel the shot selection has to be better.
As it stands now, we have ONE good shooter from 3 (Greg). Justin has a pretty nice midrange touch. So passing up solid shots, which we typically get, won't do much good. We don't really have anyone right now that's going to break down the D and finish at the rim, either.
Easy to look bad against a very good team.
Marginal things become glaring weaknesses against a good team.
Important not to look like this against mediocre teams.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on December 11, 2021, 11:03:11 PM
And we have plenty of idiot fans, like any fanbase.
We are just lucky none of them post on Scoop.
We are a team with a dozen role players. Not one of our guys would be one of UCLA's best 3 players. As BLM and others have said, we need more talent -- period.
I have confidence that Shaka will add talent -- first, because he always has been able to populate his program with very good players; and second, because it's better than believing otherwise.
This season, we have what we have. We have to outwork teams, force turnovers, get a bit lucky that the opponent isn't hitting 3s, and hope we can hang around long enough to steal one at the end. That's a tough way to beat high-quality, well-coached, experienced opponents.
We have exactly one proven 3-point shooter, and even Elliott has been a low-usage guy his entire college career. Most teams have 3-4 of them, or more, so that puts us behind from the 3-point line almost every game before the opening tip. Very difficult to win in college basketball like that, especially for a system that emphasizes 3s.
In this game, we had very little margin for error. We needed Lewis, Morsell and Kolek to have big games to have a chance. None of them did. Frankly, it's amazing it was only an 11-point loss (though yes, it felt like more).
I'm not gonna lie -- as a fan, it's a bit concerning that a player as limited as Kolek is asked to do so much. Despite all the accolades that some were throwing Kolek's way earlier this season, he's not Travis Diener or Steve Nash. We don't know yet what he'll be. But I trust Shaka's judgment, and Shaka believes Kolek is by far his best PG. As a coach, he's playing the long game. He wants his "quarterback" to know the coach has his back, and is counting on that support helping later this season and in years to come. That can be frustrating for us fans, who care only about what we are seeing RIGHT NOW and might be thinking, "Get him outta there!"
We really have some mopes on Scoop; thankfully, only a few. New coach taking over a program that just about every Scooper spent last year saying was an absolute train wreck. We go 8-3 with some quality wins. And yet, for the mopey twats, if only we had a better coach, we'd have won 12 of our first 11 games. It must be tough going through life so angry about something as relatively unimportant as basketball.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on December 11, 2021, 11:09:54 PM
As it stands now, we have ONE good shooter from 3 (Greg). Justin has a pretty nice midrange touch. So passing up solid shots, which we typically get, won't do much good. We don't really have anyone right now that's going to break down the D and finish at the rim, either.
Okay. Let's say all of this is true although I think some of our Frosh can get there. If we can't shoot well, and don't really have a burner that can create off the bounce, should our strategy be to push it constantly with the dribble or perhaps be a little more methodical and focus on more screening, passing, cutting, getting paint touches, etc?
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on December 11, 2021, 11:09:54 PM
As it stands now, we have ONE good shooter from 3 (Greg). Justin has a pretty nice midrange touch. So passing up solid shots, which we typically get, won't do much good. We don't really have anyone right now that's going to break down the D and finish at the rim, either.
My biggest concern is offense, jacking up threes when we don't have shooters. We're averaging 26.5 threes a game, we're making 31.2%. We're not going to win continuing to do that. Even on breaks we're pulling up from the arc.
Quote from: NCMUFan on December 11, 2021, 11:17:07 PM
Easy to look bad against a very good team.
Marginal things become glaring weaknesses against a good team.
Important not to look like this against mediocre teams.
Right, 3 things though
1- There are very few mediocre teams left. MU is the mediocre team now.
2- I know this will seem hard to believe, but none of this brutal play from tonight will matter this year. What will matter is the 8-3 OOC record.
What now matters is the fresh season, and finding a winning record in those 20.
If that happens then finding a way to win just 1 when it really counts, or winning 2 and it becomes an amazing season.
3- the process is great and I love it, but I learned in the wojo years that to most lay people all that matters is March. So let's somehow find a way to win March with a team that we wouldn't expect to win mach.
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 11, 2021, 11:21:13 PM
Okay. Let's say all of this is true although I think some of our Frosh can get there. If we can't shoot well, and don't really have a burner that can create off the bounce, should our strategy be to push it constantly with the dribble or perhaps be a little more methodical and focus on more screening, passing, cutting, getting paint touches, etc?
And with our personnel what is the latter approach going to accomplish? Less wide open shots for guys that aren't great shooters?
Afraid to attack. That's the biggest problem. Drive through arms if you have to.
They catch and the instinct is to shoot. Not drive at them. Get a step and make them rotate. They haven't done that consistently since the second half against West Virginia.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on December 11, 2021, 11:22:35 PM
My biggest concern is offense, jacking up threes when we don't have shooters. We're averaging 26.5 threes a game, we're making 31.2%. We're not going to win continuing to do that. Even on breaks we're pulling up from the arc.
So because we got off to a better than expected start, should the identity of how Shaka wants to play change? Is it possible guys become more consistent shooters later this year or next year? (I can see Kam and Joplin becoming pretty good 3 point shooters).
I don't disagree with you - there's probably a better middle-ground in terms of shot selection. But from the beginning of the season we've heard about the shot distribution Shaka wants - at the rim or 3s. So again, we don't have guys who can get to the rim and finish consistently right now. So what's the solution?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 11, 2021, 11:07:45 PM
Kolek leads the team in assists (by a mile), steals and assist to turnover ratio. He's also the leading rebounder among our guards (God knows our front line needs help in that regard) and plays solid on ball defense. We only have one other PG (Stevie Mitchell). Like Kolek, so far he looks like a bad shooter - without as much of the other good stuff that Kolek brings.
Yep. Plus, I'm not certain but my guess is that Kolek leads the team in deflections. No way Shaka sits the guy who leads in the category that he says is the key to his system
Everybody knew December would be tough. Well, it's been tough. I'm glad we won the game we did, on the road, gutting it out at the end.
On to Big East play! We Are Marquette!
Exactly. The BEast is no joke. And having watched every team in the league right now we have our work cut out for us. Especially if we do not get more consistency from our guards. Somehow we must get Kolek back on track as a scorer because he is our best facilitator. In all of our good wins he's been vitally important.
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 11, 2021, 11:37:25 PM
Exactly. The BEast is no joke. And having watched every team in the league right now we have our work cut out for us. Especially if we do not get more consistency from our guards. Somehow we must get Kolek back on track as a scorer because he is our best facilitator. In all of our good wins he's been vitally important.
That ship has sailed muggsy.
Shaka knows all he could do is keep pumping him up as a great shooter to get his confidence in but it's not working.
There's nothing to get on track outside of his shooting, which is part of the problem. He needs more dimensions like an ability to finish via a pull up or a drive to the hoop.
IMO Shaka has to move on. Tell Tyler that he's a pass first pg and has to be selective on his shots, he takes a bad one and he sits. Maybe that helps him concentrate on the ones he takes, or maybe he sits
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 11, 2021, 11:37:25 PM
The BEast is no joke. And having watched every team in the league right now we have our work cut out for us.
Muggs, is anything different about that than you thought going into the season?
We were picked to finish, what? Ninth? 10th? I'm hopeful we'll do better than that because I think that after the first 2 teams it's kind of a jumble. But I'm certainly not counting on being a top-2 or top-3 team. I believe Shaka when he talks about this not being an instant-gratification thing; I believe it so much I put it in my tagline.
So far, the only thing this team is guilty of is surpassing most realistic expectations. Not just the team, but a guy like Morsell. Here's a guy who averaged 9 points over 4 seasons. He comes out ridiculously blazing, averages 20+ for 4 games. Damn! We have us a stud! Except then he follows up his absurdly hot start with 7 games that show why he averaged 9 points over 4 seasons. I'm not gonna get mad at him or frustrated with him for being who he always has been. And Kolek ... he averaged 11 points on 40% shooting for a middle-of-the-pack A-10 team, but he was a big impact player in a few early games and all of a sudden he's Travis Diener.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on December 11, 2021, 11:28:34 PM
And with our personnel what is the latter approach going to accomplish? Less wide open shots for guys that aren't great shooters?
Or maybe it could lead to better shots for mediocre shooters, not rushed or quick shots? I'm just throwing it out there. The passing, screening, and cutting must be better but a shot doesn't always have to be created off the dribble. I mean we're shooting what? 30% from distance?
I would also argue that bad shots lead to more transition opportunities and better shots for our opponents. Lewis is probably our most skilled player. Can we play through him a little more? Can he get a bit deeper and force help and then we can move the ball? I just think there is a difference between an open shot and a good shot for most players at the college level.
Quote from: MU82 on December 11, 2021, 11:46:08 PM
Muggs, is anything different about that than you thought going into the season?
We were picked to finish, what? Ninth? 10th? I'm hopeful we'll do better than that because I think that after the first 2 teams it's kind of a jumble. But I'm certainly not counting on being a top-2 or top-3 team. I believe Shaka when he talks about this not being an instant-gratification thing; I believe it so much I put it in my tagline.
So far, the only thing this team is guilty of is surpassing most realistic expectations. Not just the team, but a guy like Morsell. Here's a guy who averaged 9 points over 4 seasons. He comes out ridiculously blazing, averages 20+ for 4 games. Damn! We have us a stud! Except then he follows up his absurdly hot start with 7 games that show why he averaged 9 points over 4 seasons. I'm not gonna get mad at him or frustrated with him for being who he always has been. And Kolek ... he averaged 11 points on 40% shooting for a middle-of-the-pack A-10 team, but he was a big impact player in a few early games and all of a sudden he's Travis Diener.
They are who we thought they were, in other words.
Except they aren't because they've won more than we expected.
What are your expectations for conference season now that we've seen "enough"
Kolek is not going anywhere and he will have better days. He is 0 for December but is still difference maker. If we are going to make the NCAA, which I firmly believe, Kolek is going to be a big reason why it happens.
I have said it many times, this will be the worst Shaka team ever and I am very satisfied with a 8-3 NC record. Now it is time to steal some BE games and build a winning foundation.
This team is light years from UCLA and everyone should have known that prior to the game. That said, I would bet a lot a money we are going to look a lot more like UCLA in three years than the current team. There are much brighter days ahead for this program.
If this team ends up better in March than they are now, this could still be a fun ride. We started 1/15 from three with a lot of wide open misses. If that's even 4/15, we might've made a game of it. The defense was good enough, we just couldn't overcome that early deficit.
Brew
We cannot afford to have slow starts in any game. Tonight the guys were playing in a big time environment and they looked nervous to me. Getting ready to go to good start will happen and I hope that becomes a signature of this team. Thus far, not so much in that regard. Hopefully the cold shooting is out of their system.
Quote from: MU82 on December 11, 2021, 11:46:08 PM
Muggs, is anything different about that than you thought going into the season?
We were picked to finish, what? Ninth? 10th? I'm hopeful we'll do better than that because I think that after the first 2 teams it's kind of a jumble. But I'm certainly not counting on being a top-2 or top-3 team. I believe Shaka when he talks about this not being an instant-gratification thing; I believe it so much I put it in my tagline.
So far, the only thing this team is guilty of is surpassing most realistic expectations. Not just the team, but a guy like Morsell. Here's a guy who averaged 9 points over 4 seasons. He comes out ridiculously blazing, averages 20+ for 4 games. Damn! We have us a stud! Except then he follows up his absurdly hot start with 7 games that show why he averaged 9 points over 4 seasons. I'm not gonna get mad at him or frustrated with him for being who he always has been. And Kolek ... he averaged 11 points on 40% shooting for a middle-of-the-pack A-10 team, but he was a big impact player in a few early games and all of a sudden he's Travis Diener.
I'll admit that I am biased but I still feel the sum of our parts and our potential is 5th. In other words not much distinguishes 5-11 in our league. We could be 5th or 11th imo. Therefore, where do we need to improve so we can be on that 5, 6, or 7 line and a potential NCAA birth?
I also can't say I agree that our combination of guards aren't good enough to get us to where we need to be. Granted it's been an abysmal few games for both Morsell and Kolek but they also have had really good games against quality clubs. It's about Shaka trying to build their confidence back and focus on where they can score the ball in our offense. It starts with those two guys and my take is if they slow down a touch, and see a few shots go down, they can get it back.
They are forcing to a fault and to use a Yiddish word, Shpilkes. I'm not a great messenger for tranquility but they absolutely need to calm down. You can see many times that both of them are uncertain where they want to attack and Kolek has zero confidence in his shot right now. He knows the ball could shatter the backboard before it leaves his hand and that's a miserable place to be. He's better than that, it's primarily a mental issue.
Quote from: DoctorV on December 11, 2021, 11:51:48 PM
They are who we thought they were, in other words.
Except they aren't because they've won more than we expected.
What are your expectations for conference season now that we've seen "enough"
They have exceeded my expectations so far. We play hard every minute of every game; we have made some big plays (like Kolek's steal vs Ill and Kam's 3 at KS); Shaka is wringing everything he can out of them.
I haven't thought enough about the Big East season yet. I'm sure there will be a thread (probably many of them) in the week ahead and I'll come up with something, as will you and others.
I'm a realist, but I also like to be optimistic. I'm not as sure as Goose is that we're going to the NCAAs, but I do believe that it's possible this team can be better in February and March than it is today, and if so, it could be a fun finish.
But I plan to enjoy the journey, and I like the heart this group has.
UCLA was way more physical than us. To be expected, men vs boys.
Lewis needs to take a closer look at how Jaquez Jr dominated today. How about a few less 3s and try to score closer to the hoop.
Kolek was a mess and needs more pine time. Too easy to defend and his shooting is now in his head.
Way too many offensive rebounds. I think Tony Smith said UCLA had 17 offensive rebounds and 19 second chance points. Amazing it was as close as it was.
Elliott needs more minutes. This team lacks experience and good outside shooting. He provides both.
I'm ok with the number of 3s we take even with the obvious lack of quality 3 point shooters on the roster. I am not ok with the kind of 3 point shots we took today. They need to work for a better shot.
Quote from: MU82 on December 12, 2021, 12:04:35 AM
They have exceeded my expectations so far. We play hard every minute of every game; we have made some big plays (like Kolek's steal vs Ill and Kam's 3 at KS); Shaka is wringing everything he can out of them.
I haven't thought enough about the Big East season yet. I'm sure there will be a thread (probably many of them) in the week ahead and I'll come up with something, as will you and others.
I'm a realist, but I also like to be optimistic. I'm not as sure as Goose is that we're going to the NCAAs, but I do believe that it's possible this team can be better in February and March than it is today, and if so, it could be a fun finish.
But I plan to enjoy the journey, and I like the heart this group has.
Good answer, reflection is key. My answer would be I dont know.
Gun to my head I would guess 8-12, NET in the 70s and outside looking in.
I just haven't seen enough offensively to stretch to more than 8 conference win in a great conference.
However, I expect to be surprised!
Any fan that thinks Marquette should perform as a tournament team needs their head examined. Those are not the expectations of this program. We should be greatful to be in a position to be on the bubble. I mean, seriously. NCAA lock? Conference championship contender? Get real. Not happening, ever.
Quote from: Boozemon Barro on December 12, 2021, 12:12:52 AM
Any fan that thinks Marquette should perform as a tournament team needs their head examined. Those are not the expectations of this program. We should be greatful to be in a position to be on the bubble. I mean, seriously. NCAA lock? Conference championship contender? Get real. Not happening, ever.
This program or 2021-2022 team? Damn, Wojo really drove this program into the ground and slowly but steadily sucked the life out of the fan base for seven long years if this is now the general sentiment.
Just saying. Everyone hated Wojo for not making halftime adjustments.
Shaka made one that was apparent: Greg starting second half.
But there were 0 adjustments on JJJ. Dude just got every layup he ever wanted.
Koleks cross court passes have been exposed. Intercepted multiple times.
We all love kolek. Me too. But it's time for Stevie to get more min if kolek is still struggling.
Agree with Brew. Hit even 3-4 more 3's in the first half. Game changer.
Bad Shaka: lead cut to about 10-13. No Greg On the floor. We had 2 turnovers and 2 terrible OMP
Shots. Wrong personel.
Quote from: Goose on December 11, 2021, 11:54:29 PM
Kolek is not going anywhere and he will have better days. He is 0 for December but is still difference maker. If we are going to make the NCAA, which I firmly believe, Kolek is going to be a big reason why it happens.
I have said it many times, this will be the worst Shaka team ever and I am very satisfied with a 8-3 NC record. Now it is time to steal some BE games and build a winning foundation.
This team is light years from UCLA and everyone should have known that prior to the game. That said, I would bet a lot a money we are going to look a lot more like UCLA in three years than the current team. There are much brighter days ahead for this program.
I do not see this team in the NCAA. I agree brighter days are ahead, but a year or two away.
Quote from: fjm on December 12, 2021, 01:07:45 AM
Just saying. Everyone hated Wojo for not making halftime adjustments.
Shaka made one that was apparent: Greg starting second half.
But there were 0 adjustments on JJJ. Dude just got every layup he ever wanted.
Koleks cross court passes have been exposed. Intercepted multiple times.
We all love kolek. Me too. But it's time for Stevie to get more min if kolek is still struggling.
Agree with Brew. Hit even 3-4 more 3's in the first half. Game changer.
Bad Shaka: lead cut to about 10-13. No Greg On the floor. We had 2 turnovers and 2 terrible OMP
Shots. Wrong personel.
Your last sentence really had me scratching my head. Again, we wouldn't have won the game, but it went from 11 to 19 and ended any hope. We had only one guy making shots for us and at the 15 min we trailed by 11. I didn't get the O-Max substitution at all with that line-up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4K6osZqNaA
I appreciate his approach.
8-3 in non-con. Good stuff. The real work begins.
Quote from: tower912 on December 11, 2021, 10:30:53 PM
1. MU is a young team. Without a go to scorer. The exact same team they have been. UCLA is grown men with lots of scorers.
2. Got beat up on the boards.
3. Started slow.
4. Imagine how bad it would have been without Greg.
5. The style of play isn't going to change. Pick and roll and dribble drive. Pressure d trying for 32 deflections. No amount of kvetching is going to change it.
6. I thought Shaka played too much 3 guard offense tonight. Gave UCLA a size advantage. See: rebounding. OMP at least has the length to contest some shots and rebounds.
7. Top 5 teams sit on crosscourt passes, TK. So will conference opponents with detailed scouting reports.
8. Be honest. No one thought MU would win this game. You tried to talk yourself into it and did some whistling past the graveyard, but deep in your heart you knew.
9. I appreciate this team never stops fighting.
10. 2 games in the 50's.
11. Good luck on your finals, men.
12. Noticed Kam was negative 18 when on the floor. Largest negative of all players. That must change.
13. 11 games played and no evidence of decent outside shooting, except for Greg. That alone is a killer when consistently getting your ass kicked on the boards.
When talking about this team preseason, I pointed out the lack of proven 3 pt shooting and wondered where we could get offense. I was mocked for predicting games in the 50's.
Shaka wants his guys to fire without fear. That much is obvious. I firmly believe that will not change and he is doing it as much for next season as he is for this season.
Process, gentlemen.
Quote from: NCMUFan on December 11, 2021, 10:38:14 PM
You just hope they make adjustments for Xavier.
We will see how they stack up in the Big East.
We already know how we stack up against quality teams as well as how we stack up against Bucky.
Quote from: tower912 on December 11, 2021, 10:34:38 PM
Coming into the season, he and Kolek were the only two proven 3 pt shooters.
Kolek has proven only that he has the touch of a blacksmith when shooting outside of 5 feet.
He is in a helluva slump. Listening to Coach Smart's press conference, it is clear he believes in TK and wants him on the floor.
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 11, 2021, 10:50:46 PM
What's most disappointing about tonight isn't even the putrid shooting minus Elliott. It's more about taking quick shots and undisciplined overall play. Very poor fundamentals in stretches that allowed them way too many 2nd shots. We don't box out or go after rebounds with two hands. We don't see the floor and over dribble constantly. Our screens are sloppy and all over the place which leads to poor offensive flow and no passing angles or spacing.
The only guy who played well offensively for UCLA tonight was Jaquez. Now part of it may be the game was over in the first 10 mins but they shot like 36%.
As for the coaching decisions tonight I can't say I was thrilled. Early the game got away from us because of quick long shots and playing at a tempo that favored UCLA. If they were fresh and had a game more recently they probably would have been up 35 after 20 mins. You have to adjust based on your personnel. We actually played solid h-c defense the first 8 mins. As soon as it became a pseudo track meet it was over.
I also, and I think many scoopers would agree, don't understand why Kolek essentially played the entire game. Especially after that beyond belief stretch with plenty of time left in the 2nd half. He didn't have it and it was clear as crystal. You play Elliot or Jones and move on to the next game after a mini break. Needless to say we will have to play at a much higher level to have any chance of winning at Xavier.
Agree about Elliot, but Kolek adds more to the team than Jones
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 11, 2021, 11:07:45 PM
Kolek leads the team in assists (by a mile), steals and assist to turnover ratio. He's also the leading rebounder among our guards (God knows our front line needs help in that regard) and plays solid on ball defense. We only have one other PG (Stevie Mitchell). Like Kolek, so far he looks like a bad shooter - without as much of the other good stuff that Kolek brings.
Spot on Lenny. Kolek adds a lot. But his shooting is more than worrisome. Think he should slash and then shoot with less passes when doing that. Better chance to get to the line when he does that.
Quote from: Goose on December 11, 2021, 11:54:29 PM
Kolek is not going anywhere and he will have better days. He is 0 for December but is still difference maker. If we are going to make the NCAA, which I firmly believe, Kolek is going to be a big reason why it happens.
I have said it many times, this will be the worst Shaka team ever and I am very satisfied with a 8-3 NC record. Now it is time to steal some BE games and build a winning foundation.
This team is light years from UCLA and everyone should have known that prior to the game. That said, I would bet a lot a money we are going to look a lot more like UCLA in three years than the current team. There are much brighter days ahead for this program.
My, great optimism, Goose. To look like UCLA, we need at least 2 more downtown shooters.
Quote from: MU82 on December 11, 2021, 11:20:39 PM
It must be tough going through life so angry about something as relatively unimportant as basketball.
Give him a pass. It isn't just basketball, it's Marquette basketball.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 12, 2021, 06:57:58 AM
My, great optimism, Goose. To look like UCLA, we need at least 2 more downtown shooters.
Can Shaka-Deane find them?
Willie
Not crazy optimistic IMO. My point is we should be closer to what UCLA looks like than the current team and we sure better be in the path. I said it in April, MU spent a ton of money to hire an experienced and well know coach, and expectations should be high. Unlike some on here, I think they have exceeded expectations thus far this year. My prediction on making NCAA was not based off this team have crazy good talent.
Shaka should have a very good idea of what type of player needs to brought in next season. If brings the right guys, guys that remain get better, next year will look better than this year.
Quote from: Goose on December 11, 2021, 11:58:46 PM
Brew
We cannot afford to have slow starts in any game. Tonight the guys were playing in a big time environment and they looked nervous to me. Getting ready to go to good start will happen and I hope that becomes a signature of this team. Thus far, not so much in that regard. Hopefully the cold shooting is out of their system.
If we would have made even a third of the open shots we missed it would have been a competitive game. So we only scored in the 50s; UCLA only scored in the 60s. It was a defensive game.
Quote from: TSmith34 on December 11, 2021, 11:00:44 PM
Oh, he doesn't like Wojo either, but he really hates Shaka's tone.
Hilarious. So really he's a Badger fan
He is to Shaka what ners was to Wojo. An early adopter.
Quote from: fjm on December 12, 2021, 01:07:45 AMBut there were 0 adjustments on JJJ. Dude just got every layup he ever wanted.
I'm not sure what the answer was. Justin is our strongest defender against that and Jacquez backed him down every time. If you double, someone knocks down the open three. I feel like that showed the talent disparity. The counter to Jacquez getting what he wanted was us making shots to keep up.
Quote from: fjm on December 12, 2021, 01:07:45 AMBad Shaka: lead cut to about 10-13. No Greg On the floor. We had 2 turnovers and 2 terrible OMP
Shots. Wrong personel.
That was another where we just don't have the personnel. Greg came out because he was gassed. He needed a blow. What we really needed was someone like Kam or Kolek to join Greg in hitting shots.
Tonight showed why this team will be better in 2-3 years. Add strength, get them to shoot more consistently or add shooters, teach the skills and recruit up the talent level. At the end of the game i was more encouraged than discouraged.
Quote from: fjm on December 11, 2021, 10:32:28 PM
0 adjustments by Shaka Wojohowski.
Jaquez every time. Back down, pumpfake. Bucket.
My cousin who NEVER watches basketball literally said "that junior guy just backs down every time... are they going to defend that?"
Disagree, a big adjustment we made was to stop leaving the shooters on drives and that helped a lot. Defense was OK after the first 15 minutes or so.
My big issue with Shaka thus far is that we are team of guys who don't shoot the three well, but whose game plan is to let everybody shoot the three without probing the defense for something better. We are poor three point shooters who compound the problem by taking low percentage threes.
I don't know how many times in our losses we have had an opportunity to get a run going and we just come down and chuck up an ill-advised three. It is infuriating.
It isn't much about this year for Shaka and I would be surprised to see any adjustments other than personnel. He is in a new program with a slap-dash roster. I am afraid we are going to have to suffer through this brutal 3 point barrage. This year should be about style of play, and I will take 8-3 all day long--especially given the 3. Bonnies are pretty good, Badgers seem to be better than expected, and UCLA has legit thoughts of a Final Four. We have a tenuous hope for the bubble.
CTWarrior
Agree on the quick bad shots has broken a couple of mini runs this season. I keep thinking about when we have guys making those shots and how that changes the game in our favor. We are going to see glimpses of the offense might eventually wow us, but until then we are going to have frustrating possessions.
I will say in the comeback games in Charleston we saw the shots drop and it was fun to see. I hope they keep chucking the threes, especially in transition and hope they are start to fall. We are not the Golden State Warriors but I think that style will do the program well for a long time.
Quote from: tower912 on December 11, 2021, 10:30:53 PM
1. MU is a young team. Without a go to scorer. The exact same team they have been. UCLA is grown men with lots of scorers.
2. Got beat up on the boards.
3. Started slow.
4. Imagine how bad it would have been without Greg.
5. The style of play isn't going to change. Pick and roll and dribble drive. Pressure d trying for 32 deflections. No amount of kvetching is going to change it.
6. I thought Shaka played too much 3 guard offense tonight. Gave UCLA a size advantage. See: rebounding. OMP at least has the length to contest some shots and rebounds.
7. Top 5 teams sit on crosscourt passes, TK. So will conference opponents with detailed scouting reports.
8. Be honest. No one thought MU would win this game. You tried to talk yourself into it and did some whistling past the graveyard, but deep in your heart you knew.
9. I appreciate this team never stops fighting.
10. 2 games in the 50's.
11. Good luck on your finals, men.
thx, Cpt Obvious
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on December 11, 2021, 10:50:15 PM
Stopped in for some unintentional comedy. Scoop always delivers.
Anyone not thrilled with 8-3 is a turd.
Lots of ups and downs coming over the next 3 months. Amazing how shortsighted some are - hope it's a vocal minority.
really? then I'm a turd...you're a loser.
Every UCLA player was very "articulate" in kicking our ass last night.
Quote from: Viper on December 12, 2021, 08:13:37 AM
thx, Cpt Obvious
Uh...what?
Tower provides these summaries after every game. Meant to spur discussion. If you don't want to say anything, then don't.
Quote from: Viper on December 12, 2021, 08:18:50 AM
really? then I'm a turd...you're a loser.
Actually my hope is that you say less because this doesn't really add much to the discussion.
Quote from: Viper on December 12, 2021, 08:13:37 AM
thx, Cpt Obvious
Oh, the rapier like wit has chastened me.
Quote from: tower912 on December 12, 2021, 07:17:57 AM
He is to Shaka what ners was to Wojo. An early adopter.
Yeah, except I don't think ners dislike was based on racial animosity.
Best thing about this game was Greg showing his value.
Love Shaka. Trust Shaka. But if we are gonna have a run and gun offense
Let's play the 1 guy that can.....gun
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 12, 2021, 09:26:19 AM
Best thing about this game was Greg showing his value.
Love Shaka. Trust Shaka. But if we are gonna have a run and gun offense
Let's play the 1 guy that can.....gun
Just remember that he was suspended for a reason. My guess is that he has had to re-earn Shaka's trust. Hopefully all will be well moving forward.
Second worst offense in the Big East. We can talk about talent and process all we want, but I am not a fan of this offense. At 14 seconds per possession, that leaves about 7-10 seconds to run the half court offense. That is like one pass. The shot quality, rebounding and turnovers folks are complaining about are just symptoms of this scheme.
Compare that with Nova who also runs a four out, and they are one of the most deliberate in the country. Now, granted their talent is better, but MU's offense has been wholly inefficient. We haven't even played one good game yet.
I hope it comes but adjustments need to be made imo.
Dr. B
I agree completely that we have yet to play a good game and the offense looks horrible. We have not had a ton spurts of very good ball, let alone a whole game. Adjustments need to be made or the ball has to go in the hoop. As for talent, there are enough basketball players to have a better product on the court. It starts and ends with making a basket, closely followed by rebounding.
Quote from: Goose on December 12, 2021, 09:53:15 AM
I agree completely that we have yet to play a good game and the offense looks horrible. We have not had a ton spurts of very good ball, let alone a whole game. Adjustments need to be made or the ball has to go in the hoop. As for talent, there are enough basketball players to have a better product on the court. It starts and ends with making a basket, closely followed by rebounding.
Actually Goose, based on what you've said here, it sounds like you really think it starts and ends with better coaching.
82
Better coaching has us at 8-3. The level of play has been spotty, yet they have found ways to win. Actually, I think it comes down to guys making a fxxkin wide open shot.
Quote from: Goose on December 12, 2021, 10:02:53 AM
82
Better coaching has us at 8-3. The level of play has been spotty, yet they have found ways to win. Actually, I think it comes down to guys making a fxxkin wide open shot.
Hmm.
If the "adjustments" that you said need to be made means players have to adjust shots going into the hoop ... well, we're simply not a good-shooting team, so here's hoping Shaka can make some magic some other ways.
If this was really the offense shaka wanted to run, I just can't figure out why another shooter was not brought in. Lots of transfers available this year. Still like Morsell, Kuath for defense but he desperately needed a shooter based on this offense
Please list the proven shooters trying to get to MU that Shaka rejected.
Quote from: tower912 on December 12, 2021, 10:45:13 AM
Please list the proven shooters trying to get to MU that Shaka rejected.
absolutely no idea, I don't follow recruiting as much as all of you. The transfer market was massive, and with the fact of how this team is shooting, I'd imagine it wouldn't be too tough. I question where someone like O-Max fits in. I also realize that perhaps they thought Kolek would be the shooter and it has not panned out
Quote from: tower912 on December 12, 2021, 10:45:13 AM
Please list the proven shooters trying to get to MU that Shaka rejected.
This isn't how recruiting works.
I know.
"I appreciate his approach" well said ditto from me.
Quote from: tower912 on December 12, 2021, 06:24:11 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4K6osZqNaA
I appreciate his approach.
8-3 in non-con. Good stuff. The real work begins.
It's a legit criticism of Shaka: If he wants to run an offensive system that emphasizes 3-point shooting, he needs to have at least 3 very good shooters on the floor at all times. You have a rim-protecting Kur type, a Justin Lewis who can occasionally hit a 3, and then 3 true shooters who have to be defended at the line.
We have 1 proven long-range shooter, and even he has been a deep-bench sub for most of his college career.
But again, it's Shaka's first season; he had little time to recruit all the pieces he needed. He deserves time, at least in my opinion. If we have a similar team structure next season, that will be a cause for concern.
Quote from: MU82 on December 12, 2021, 11:56:59 AM
It's a legit criticism of Shaka: If he wants to run an offensive system that emphasizes 3-point shooting, he needs to have at least 3 very good shooters on the floor at all times. You have a rim-protecting Kur type, a Justin Lewis who can occasionally hit a 3, and then 3 true shooters who have to be defended at the line.
We have 1 proven long-range shooter, and even he has been a deep-bench sub for most of his college career.
But again, it's Shaka's first season; he had little time to recruit all the pieces he needed. He deserves time, at least in my opinion. If we have a similar team structure next season, that will be a cause for concern.
Looks rather similar for next year. Will Greg stick around for that 6th season? Otherwise, just adding 2 frosh so far that are question marks as to 3 point shooting and hoping for development and seasoning from the returnees. Kuath is gone, so that spot is up to Oso and Keeyan. Unless Shaka picks up a transfer or two this Spring, the team structure looks rather similar.
Quote from: Nukem2 on December 12, 2021, 12:24:36 PM
Looks rather similar for next year. Will Greg stick around for that 6th season? Otherwise, just adding 2 frosh so far that are question marks as to 3 point shooting and hoping for development and seasoning from the returnees. Kuath is gone, so that spot is up to Oso and Keeyan. Unless Shaka picks up a transfer or two this Spring, the team structure looks rather similar.
Of course they could improve. Kam looks like a legit threat.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 12, 2021, 12:56:10 PM
Of course they could improve. Kam looks like a legit threat.
Yup, as I inferred, the improvement needs to come from development and seasoning (i.e., improvement). Otherwise, the team structure is much the same. Though, Sean Jones does potentially offer a much different look at PG.
I firmly believe the improvement comes from adding better talent. There will be no shortage of guys in the portal and Shaka's system will attract players. I do not anticipate a wholesale makeover, but there will be a nice number of new players.
Quote from: Nukem2 on December 12, 2021, 12:24:36 PM
Looks rather similar for next year. Will Greg stick around for that 6th season? Otherwise, just adding 2 frosh so far that are question marks as to 3 point shooting and hoping for development and seasoning from the returnees. Kuath is gone, so that spot is up to Oso and Keeyan. Unless Shaka picks up a transfer or two this Spring, the team structure looks rather similar.
We will have schollies open, and Shaka will have a whole transfer portal to mine. I would expect a talent upgrade if Shaka and his people are doing their jobs.
Quote from: MU82 on December 12, 2021, 02:06:10 PM
We will have schollies open, and Shaka will have a whole transfer portal to mine. I would expect a talent upgrade if Shaka and his people are doing their jobs.
Hopefully, but not a lot of openings with already having a lot of young guys including Jones and Ross.
Quote from: Goose on December 12, 2021, 01:50:50 PM
I firmly believe the improvement comes from adding better talent. There will be no shortage of guys in the portal and Shaka's system will attract players. I do not anticipate a wholesale makeover, but there will be a nice number of new players.
Better talent and development. I think Joplin and Jones can be the kind of shooters in the future we wish we had today. So many of the frustrations now line up with having the 351st ranked roster in terms of experience. I think many of the things we wish we had are already here, they just haven't peaked yet.
Jones, Ellis, Mitchell, and Joplin are very promising prospects. That said we need someone to conduct the orchestra moving forward and that's a bit of a question mark.
Quote from: Viper on December 12, 2021, 08:18:50 AM
really? then I'm a turd...you're a loser.
You are literally too stupid to insult.
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 12, 2021, 07:16:32 PM
Jones, Ellis, Mitchell, and Joplin are very promising prospects. That said we need someone to conduct the orchestra moving forward and that's a bit of a question mark.
If those guys mature into good offensive players/shooters, Kolek very well might be at least one of the players conducting the orchestra.
Having a scud-shooting PG surrounded by a bunch of guys who can barely crack 30% from 3 ... it's pretty amazing we're 8-3.