I was pleased to see him engaged on the bench. He's a significant piece when he comes back with his ability to hit the spot triple. Hopefully some of our other guys will find their range as well.
But, does he fit this defense?
Having Greg play the minutes Omax is currently playing as the 3rd guard will be huge. Greg is money from the corner 3 while Omax, at this point, you dont have to really even guard.
I've seen Greg in that bow tie more than all be seen him in his uni.
Quote from: Nukem2 on November 15, 2021, 10:52:15 PM
But, does he fit this defense?
Good point Nuke. I thought Mitchell quietly defended pretty well tonight, especially down the stretch. But we do need a guy to stretch the floor on offense. It's too bad Cain didn't come back. I think he would fit this team really well.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 15, 2021, 11:21:19 PM
Good point Nuke. I thought Mitchell quietly defended pretty well tonight, especially down the stretch. But we do need a guy to stretch the floor on offense. It's too bad Cain didn't come back. I think he would fit this team really well.
Cain woulda been a great fit for 1 year here.
For him personally though, I think he's in a better fit. Can't blame him at all for going the mid major go to guy route.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on November 15, 2021, 11:23:34 PM
Cain woulda been a great fit for 1 year here.
For him personally though, I think he's in a better fit. Can't blame him at all for going the mid major go to guy route.
Yes. I don't blame him at all. I can hold grudges but not in Jamal's case.
Any rumblings on what Elliott did to be penalized 5 games?
Quote from: Markusquette on November 15, 2021, 11:48:20 PM
Any rumblings on what Elliott did to be penalized 5 games?
He wrote a letter.
Greg will definitely help this team win. He plays with fire and will light it up.
I know it's a four game suspension but can't we just forgive and forget? I want Greg out there for Ole Miss. (teal).
What a great message Shaka is sending though. 3-0 so far during his suspension. Huge lesson for Greg. I imagine he will play inspired ball when he comes back to ensure a regular rotation spot.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on November 16, 2021, 05:36:30 AM
Greg will definitely help this team win. He plays with fire and will light it up.
He plays with joy. I hope he is healthy enough to defend to Coach Smart's requirements.
Having another guy that can make a shot will indeed help a lot. Justin' mid range game looks much improved. I am pleasantly surprised with Morsell's ability to take on a much bigger offensive role 3 games in. Prosper oozes talent, but just isn't there yet. Kolek is a nice piece to the puzzle, but his shot is flat, and in the early going, doesn't look like a scoring weapon. Definitely need another guy that can hit open shots - Kam and Stevie will get there - but they both look a bit overwhelmed out there right now.
When Greg comes back, I wonder if Stevie slides into the starting line up in place of OMP. Let him handle the ball and set up Kolek and Morsell. Bring Greg into score off the bench.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 16, 2021, 08:45:11 AM
I know it's a four game suspension but can't we just forgive and forget? I want Greg out there for Ole Miss. (teal).
Did the 4 games not include the exhibition? I assumed it did and he would be back Thursday
Quote from: MUpugnacity on November 16, 2021, 09:20:27 AM
Did the 4 games not include the exhibition? I assumed it did and he would be back Thursday
They announced it as 4 games after the exhibition and the impression I was under is that he'll be back for Friday's game.
Kinda odd having the suspension end 1 game into a tourney.
But can't fault Shaka for going the length he felt necessary. Didn't compromise to 3 which would been more "convenient".
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on November 16, 2021, 09:23:41 AM
Kinda odd having the suspension end 1 game into a tourney.
But can't fault Shaka for going the length he felt necessary. Didn't compromise to 3 which would been more "convenient".
I would guess it wasn't Shaka's call but more of an athletic code of conduct issue where the penalty was something like 10% of the athletic contests.
Unless this was a basketball team specific issue.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 16, 2021, 09:30:08 AM
I would guess it wasn't Shaka's call but more of an athletic code of conduct issue where the penalty was something like 10% of the athletic contests.
Unless this was a basketball team specific issue.
Yeah I was gonna say I'm sure it was a percentage thing.
Didn't even cross the mind that it could be a athletic department not Shaka thing tho.
Probably right.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on November 16, 2021, 09:35:48 AM
Yeah I was gonna say I'm sure it was a percentage thing.
Didn't even cross the mind that it could be a athletic department not Shaka thing tho.
Probably right.
Yeah unless it is a basketball team specific issue, coaches shouldn't be involved in athletic or student code of conduct penalties. Those are all usually prescribed ahead of time.
Quote from: tower912 on November 16, 2021, 09:13:59 AM
When Greg comes back, I wonder if Stevie slides into the starting line up in place of OMP. Let him handle the ball and set up Kolek and Morsell. Bring Greg into score off the bench.
This could very well happen. Although maybe O-Max breaks out in Charleston?
Quote from: tower912 on November 16, 2021, 09:06:41 AM
He plays with joy. I hope he is healthy enough to defend to Coach Smart's requirements.
Does OMax defend within his system? His failure to block out was quite evident.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 16, 2021, 09:54:11 AM
Does OMax defend within his system? His failure to block out was quite evident.
As was noted in one of my group chats yesterday, there's a reason it's O-Max and not Rebound-Max.
If Greg can be as quick on D as he was to get to Kolek after his and-one he won't have any problem.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 16, 2021, 09:54:11 AM
Does OMax defend within his system? His failure to block out was quite evident.
OMax is really raw, not sure what he brings to the team after 3 games. As stated he does not block out nor is he quick to the ball. Will not be
surprised if Joplin keeps on getting more time, or they play 3 guards more often once Elliott comes back. Not sure Elliott is quick enough to play
Shaka's defensive style, as he was defensive playing D last year. I think Elliott at most is a 15 minute a game player. Will add some O, but the frosh
are along way away from helping this team on the O end. All looked bad yesterday. Mitchell's free throw shooting yesterday was weak at best. Looked
like deer in headlights!
Quote from: BCHoopster on November 16, 2021, 10:11:56 AMOMax is really raw, not sure what he brings to the team after 3 games.
After two games, people didn't see what Kuath brought to the team. Granted, it was a practice, scrimmage, and exhibition, but both Kuath and O-Max flashed a lot of upside in the preseason events. O-Max may not be bringing it in games yet, but I'm trusting the process and evaluation of this staff. I could see Stevie or Greg taking his starting spot and him coming off the bench as the season goes on, but I expect him to have a couple games where he pops up with a big night and people say "where the hell did that come from?"
I think there will be a few games like that for a few guys. Joplin, Kam, or Ellis can easily go for 15. Stevie has already come close. MU will need a consistent third scorer. I assume it will be Kolek when he is healthy.
Quote from: tower912 on November 16, 2021, 11:00:20 AM
I think there will be a few games like that for a few guys. Joplin, Kam, or Ellis can easily go for 15. Stevie has already come close. MU will need a consistent third scorer. I assume it will be Kolek when he is healthy.
His shot looked much better in the second half. Think he just needs to be a little more assertive on the offensive end.
Quote from: Nukem2 on November 15, 2021, 10:52:15 PM
But, does he fit this defense?
I think he fits this defense very well. It's all about shooting gaps and I think Greg has very good instincts in that department
I have been very pleased with Greg's engagement during games, as he cheers on his teammates in that blue suit of his.
He's always seemed like a good kid and great teammate, which is why the suspension surprised me. I'm less surprised by the support he's given the guys, and I look forward to seeing him back on the court with them in Charleston.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 16, 2021, 09:30:08 AM
I would guess it wasn't Shaka's call but more of an athletic code of conduct issue where the penalty was something like 10% of the athletic contests.
Unless this was a basketball team specific issue.
What's the punishment for DWI...at Duke...when you're Coach K's grandson?
Quote from: avid1010 on November 17, 2021, 10:41:01 AM
What's the punishment for DWI...at Duke...when you're Coach K's grandson?
He basically doesn't even play anyway . More interested in what happens to the star player who was with him and got charged
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 17, 2021, 02:54:42 PM
He basically doesn't even play anyway . More interested in what happens to the star player who was with him and got charged
FWIW Banchero played last night
Quote from: avid1010 on November 17, 2021, 10:41:01 AM
What's the punishment for DWI...at Duke...when you're Coach K's grandson?
Well at Kansas the punishment is the same as what Greg got. I'm assuming Greg's violation was much less.
Here is Marquette Athletics Department Handbook. Based on a cursory reading of this the penalty is 10 percent of games including exhibitions. So theoretically Greg could be playing against Ole Miss.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/gomarquette.com/documents/2019/12/3/2019_Custom_Book_5_5x8_5.pdf
Quote from: Herman Cain on November 17, 2021, 08:26:14 PM
Here is Marquette Athletics Department Handbook. Based on a cursory reading of this the penalty is 10 percent of games including exhibitions. So theoretically Greg could be playing against Ole Miss.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/gomarquette.com/documents/2019/12/3/2019_Custom_Book_5_5x8_5.pdf
Didn't he play against Bowie?
No.
It appear GE and Darryl might have had a tussle in practice
Quote from: Tha Hound on November 18, 2021, 09:00:42 PM
It appear GE and Darryl might have had a tussle in practice
Where did you heard this?
This would probably be best case scenario suspension IMO.
Quote from: Herman Cain on November 17, 2021, 08:26:14 PM
Here is Marquette Athletics Department Handbook. Based on a cursory reading of this the penalty is 10 percent of games including exhibitions. So theoretically Greg could be playing against Ole Miss.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/gomarquette.com/documents/2019/12/3/2019_Custom_Book_5_5x8_5.pdf
3rd "alcohol" offense. That just seems like ageism.
Not sure how GE will help? He's abysmal on the defensive end, but can drain a corner 3 once in a while
Hope I'm wrong, but I don't see the boost from Greg.
I didn't see tonight's game, but also wonder...how will Elliott really help? This team is being driven by its defense, and that has not be a strong area for him over the years. Yes, his shooting will help, but getting him in for offense, who does he replace? I'm not saying he won't help, but with the way things are going, it seems like he likely will have a battle on his hands to earn playing time. And that's good for MU in the long run.
Players have roles. Not every player does everything well. Greg is an elite spot-up shooter, and there will be games we need one of those.
I didn't read this entire thread, but I doubt too many Scoopers are saying Greg Elliott should start, or Greg Elliott should play 20+ minutes.
He's a role player. In today's basketball, it's a pretty important role.
Greg could definitely help offensively with corner 3's.
Defensively, I thought last year he was limping around. I think how much help he'll be this year is health-related. If he's sound, he can play some D (I recall episodes last year when I said "Greg, where were you?")
I'd like to see him have a nice victory tour, but not having seen him this year (except for the event in the Al where he looked crappy), I'm reserving judgment.
I've always like the guy, I'm impressed with him staying for another year. I'd like to see him go out on a positive note.
Greg has some length. Part of it is about being in a position to succeed and play to your strengths.
Quote from: jfp61 on November 18, 2021, 09:15:15 PM
3rd "alcohol" offense. That just seems like ageism.
LOL
Love it
Greg will be an asset f'sho!
I think he can replace Omax pretty easily. Omax has all the athletic tools but is just never in the right spot on defense.
Quote from: JTJ3 on November 18, 2021, 10:04:20 PM
I think he can replace Omax pretty easily. Omax has all the athletic tools but is just never in the right spot on defense.
A 6'3" guard with limited lateral quickness isn't replacing a 6'8" forward.
Joplin might be replacing him if he keeps playing like he has.
GE will fill a role, but I did anticipate it to be a big one. That said, he definitely will help if he can hit some shots.
Quote from: MU82 on November 18, 2021, 09:53:43 PM
He's a role player. In today's basketball, it's a pretty important role.
This. He shot 45.5% on 66 3 attempts last year. Over 40% the year before as well. The jury's out, but we have not looked to be a real consistent perimeter shooting team. He will help. May take him a few games to find his role and groove, but I'd be surprised if he isn't a nice and consistent contributor on this team. He'll also add to the positive energy this team seems to have on the court.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 19, 2021, 07:56:35 AM
A 6'3" guard with limited lateral quickness isn't replacing a 6'8" forward.
Joplin might be replacing him if he keeps playing like he has.
Maybe not, but the first substitution has typically been O-Max out for either Stevie or Kam. It might not be Greg if he can't defend the position, but I'm not sure Joplin is any better suited yet to be anything other than an occasional offensive sub. I do think if O-Max loses his starting spot, it's to a guard and not another forward.
I think Greg is taking minutes from Stevie and/or Kam more than anyone. We will see.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 19, 2021, 09:33:21 AM
I think Greg is taking minutes from Stevie and/or Kam more than anyone. We will see.
I think given the style the Golden Eagles play, the more bodies, the better
Yup.
Quote from: Bad_Reporter on November 18, 2021, 09:35:13 PM
Not sure how GE will help? He's abysmal on the defensive end, but can drain a corner 3 once in a while
Hope I'm wrong, but I don't see the boost from Greg.
Where's the "Elliot is abysmal on defense" narrative coming from?
Granted the recent teams have been bad defensively, but he's consistently been a team leader in steal rate and steals per 40, as well as defensive plus-minus. Last year he was a top 500 player in the KenPom steal rate.
I'm not suggesting he's elite or especially good, but he's not terrible either.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 19, 2021, 09:35:15 AM
I think given the style the Golden Eagles play, the more bodies, the better
Shaka said something like "ideally, we go 11 deep." I bet he uses the depth in creative ways. It's a good problem to have.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 19, 2021, 10:22:53 AM
Where's the "Elliot is abysmal on defense" narrative coming from?
Granted the recent teams have been bad defensively, but he's consistently been a team leader in steal rate and steals per 40, as well as defensive plus-minus. Last year he was a top 500 player in the KenPom steal rate.
I'm not suggesting he's elite or especially good, but he's not terrible either.
Never understood it either, he was always good for a deflection or two per game.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 19, 2021, 10:28:27 AM
Never understood it either, he was always good for a deflection or two per game.
I would think Greg's activity on defense will work quite well on a Shaka team.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 19, 2021, 10:22:53 AM
Where's the "Elliot is abysmal on defense" narrative coming from?
Granted the recent teams have been bad defensively, but he's consistently been a team leader in steal rate and steals per 40, as well as defensive plus-minus. Last year he was a top 500 player in the KenPom steal rate.
I'm not suggesting he's elite or especially good, but he's not terrible either.
Agreed. I think Greg is the epitome of a glue guy too. Plays with the fire that Shaka likes (it felt like when healthy, he always was good for a "we need a bucket" moment). I fully expect him to be a strong contributor to the team both on the ball handling and 3 side, as well as active defense.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on November 19, 2021, 11:57:10 AM
Agreed. I think Greg is the epitome of a glue guy too. Plays with the fire that Shaka likes (it felt like when healthy, he always was good for a "we need a bucket" moment). I fully expect him to be a strong contributor to the team both on the ball handling and 3 side, as well as active defense.
Agreed. I have always considered him a glue guy as well. I look forward to seeing what he adds to this exciting team.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on November 19, 2021, 11:57:10 AM
Agreed. I think Greg is the epitome of a glue guy too. Plays with the fire that Shaka likes (it felt like when healthy, he always was good for a "we need a bucket" moment). I fully expect him to be a strong contributor to the team both on the ball handling and 3 side, as well as active defense.
I mean, he is a career 5.2 ppg scorer. Let's not exaggerate too much here. I agree he can be a contributor and a senior leader, but I have never considered him anything like what you are suggesting.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 19, 2021, 12:30:53 PM
I mean, he is a career 5.2 ppg scorer. Let's not exaggerate too much here. I agree he can be a contributor and a senior leader, but I have never considered him anything like what you are suggesting.
Perhaps not phrased appropriately--dude had a nose for a bucket when teh team couldn't find one. Not in quantity, but in "how to stop the 100-0 run" sense.
Quote from: Nukem2 on November 15, 2021, 10:52:15 PM
But, does he fit this defense?
Yes, he has great length for deflections in the press. That is one of the main reasons I value Oso and OMP in the press.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on November 19, 2021, 10:28:27 AM
Never understood it either, he was always good for a deflection or two per game.
Which is why Shaka wants to play 16-32 Greg Elliotts every game.
Quote from: JTJ3 on November 18, 2021, 10:04:20 PM
I think he can replace Omax pretty easily. Omax has all the athletic tools but is just never in the right spot on defense.
Shaka subbed Omax in multiple times at the end of last night's game for defensive purposes. Surprised me as well...but I'll go with Shaka.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 19, 2021, 12:30:53 PM
I mean, he is a career 5.2 ppg scorer. Let's not exaggerate too much here. I agree he can be a contributor and a senior leader, but I have never considered him anything like what you are suggesting.
I think Greg's value becomes a little more apparent if you look beyond the traditional stats.
He was 4th on the team last year in points per 40, but only 7th in attempts per 40. Same with per 100 possessions. So he was productive in limited opportunities.
Among players in the rotation, his eFG% and TS% led the team. He had the highest offensive rating on the team and was second (to Garcia) in offensive win shares and win shares per 40.
He's not a star by any stretch, but he brings more value than his career PPG indicates.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 19, 2021, 02:12:15 PM
I think Greg's value becomes a little more apparent if you look beyond the traditional stats.
He was 4th on the team last year in points per 40, but only 7th in attempts per 40. Same with per 100 possessions. So he was productive in limited opportunities.
Among players in the rotation, his eFG% and TS% led the team. He had the highest offensive rating on the team and was second (to Garcia) in offensive win shares and win shares per 40.
He's not a star by any stretch, but he brings more value than his career PPG indicates.
One of the best games of Greg's career was freshman year against Villanova on the road . He put in 25 very good minutes against a very good Nova backcourt
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400988565
Quote from: Pakuni on November 19, 2021, 10:22:53 AMWhere's the "Elliot is abysmal on defense" narrative coming from?
Greg never seemed as quick after his injuries. I do think he can create deflections in this defense because he's long, but the athleticism isn't what it once was. And in Wojo's system, we've never seen much of anyone resemble great individual defenders.
His experience may be valuable as the freshmen fight through their first 'second-game-of-a-back-to-back'. May see some front rim jumpers from the kids.
Quote from: tower912 on November 19, 2021, 03:28:39 PM
His experience may be valuable as the freshmen fight through their first 'second-game-of-a-back-to-back'. May see some front rim jumpers from the kids.
But not from tired legs.
You can say it now. Shaka said it yesterday.
Quote from: tower912 on November 19, 2021, 03:28:39 PM
His experience may be valuable as the freshmen fight through their first 'second-game-of-a-back-to-back'. May see some front rim jumpers from the kids.
It will be interesting to see how kids who grew up playing high level AAU basketball can handle playing two games in two days.
You would think. Darn that Crean, and Buzz and now Shaka for bringing it up.
One thing I think will help MU is sheer numbers. Especially with Greg back. 5 guards. Plus EE. Osa, OMP and Joplin didn't play huge minutes.
Quote from: tower912 on November 19, 2021, 03:39:06 PM
You would think. Darn that Crean, and Buzz and now Shaka for bringing it up.
One thing I think will help MU is sheer numbers. Especially with Greg back. 5 guards. Plus EE. Osa, OMP and Joplin didn't play huge minutes.
And we have around two and a half hours more rest than WVU. Should be a huge advantage.
Greg showed his rustiness, had 3 open looks and looked like a freshman!
He did. He will probably get at least one more run. More if the game gets out of control.
Idk, seeing Greg get blown by at 5:55 mark in the second half brought back memories. He's just not quick laterally at all. Great length, but I still think he's a liability on the defensive end.
::)