1. MU's defense is that good.
2. Despite bad rebounding, offensive flow. But the defense was enough.
3. A great win.
Eating it with joy
We got a VERY favorable whistle.
I'm so aroused
I thought 8 was too low. Man, I was wrong. What a great game.
Quote from: tower912 on November 15, 2021, 08:17:08 PM
1. MU's defense is that good.
2. Despite bad rebounding, offensive flow. But the defense was enough.
3. A great win.
Yep glad to be wrong. Just really need to cleanup the rebounding issue
Are we back?
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 15, 2021, 08:18:22 PM
We got a VERY favorable whistle.
Both did. That said, we need to give Curbello the MU MVP
Just wow. Each team tried to throw the game away the last 2 min but we threw it away a little less.
We will take it!
Great W! Didn't see that coming. Certainly wasn't pretty but that's a win that with a decent finish to non con you stay alive. Love to see it!
Fantastic win
Should Illinois be ranked? Woof..
Holy cow is it fun to watch a MU team that feels like an "MU TEAM". Gritty. Defensive minded.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on November 15, 2021, 08:19:54 PM
Just wow. Each team tried to throw the game away the last 2 min but we threw it away a little less.
We will take it!
Reminded me of the Detroit/Steelers OT. But somebody had to win. Elated it was MU.
Couldn't grab a rebound. Didn't shoot well. Missed all FTs down the stretch.
But won due to playing defense. Hard.
That was fun.
I have liked our teams prospects all year because of what our experienced players bring to the table. This is definitely a game the whole team can build off of. This win could be very helpful come tournament selection time.
It took Wojo until January of his 2nd season to get a top 10 victory.
Shaka does it in 3 games.
Not bad.
Gonna be a lot of ups and downs this season, just gotta roll with the punches and enjoy these wins.
Pressured three veteran guards all game. The press looked so, so, good.
Wow. Amazing. And a bit shocking.
Hopefully the free throw shooting down the stretch was an aberration. Gotta clean up the glass.
Love this team. Killed on the boards, couldn't make a free throw, but still fought until the end. Great win.
Such a nice win for Shaka and the club. WOW!!! Those FTs down the stretch can make such a huge difference.
That was a Marquette Warrior victory!
Kudos to Kofis memorabilia sales and Curbelo's epic hero ball showing.
I don't know how we won that game but I am very glad that we did
Fun to win a game...against a team like UI...and have so much room for improvement.
#protectthehouse
That was fun. Without the win, that was a culture-building game, and a lot of fun to boot. Didn't think they had the guys to get over the hump, but wow. Feels good to have guys giving it their all.
After many long years, I think we have a coach.
AL LIVES!!!!!!!!
Thank God! We've taken the first step back......
NICE!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks guys!!!! You made this old Warrior happy.
Ugliest win over a top 10 team we've ever had!
Really fun game to watch. Pleasure to have a real basketball coach and not a malfunctioning AI at the helm.
Tastes delicious.
Eat crow? Are you kidding, I'm pretty certain my bulletin board material got them over the hump!
Great win!
Quote from: GB Warrior on November 15, 2021, 08:30:39 PM
That was fun. Without the win, that was a culture-building game, and a lot of fun to boot. Didn't think they had the guys to get over the hump, but wow. Feels good to have guys giving it their all.
Yep. I'm not sure we're good but I'm sure we have an identity and culture. Shaka built a likeable brand in just a few months. Really impressive.
I know free throws no matta, but it sure could have been a little easier if we'd have made some down the stretch.
Great win Warriors!
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 15, 2021, 08:24:27 PM
Gonna be a lot of ups and downs this season, just gotta roll with the punches and enjoy these wins.
Pressured three veteran guards all game. The press looked so, so, good.
Excellent post. Even though we didn't "press" much in the second half, we kept very good pressure on whoever had the ball. Most of the time that was Curbelo, and he really was generous to us.
That was a fun win. It was frustrating to watch the missed FTs and the failure to come up with defensive boards, but the guys played effen hard.
I had some serious doubts about Kuath after watching the first two games, but he sure made a difference tonight.
Congrats to Shaka. He really had the guys ready, and he kept them into the game from the opening tap to the very end.
What, they scored more than 50 against quality competition?
And Morsell is really going to have to stop scoring to get down to his predicted 11 ppg average.
Eating crow is sweet.
Kind of fun when you have a coach that can...well...coach.
Quote from: MU82 on November 15, 2021, 08:39:58 PM
Excellent post. Even though we didn't "press" much in the second half, we kept very good pressure on whoever had the ball. Most of the time that was Curbelo, and he really was generous to us.
That was a fun win. It was frustrating to watch the missed FTs and the failure to come up with defensive boards, but the guys played effen hard.
I had some serious doubts about Kuath after watching the first two games, but he sure made a difference tonight.
Congrats to Shaka. He really had the guys ready, and he kept them into the game from the opening tap to the very end.
4-18 from the floor to go with his 7 TOs
I had zero expectations for MU this year, none whatsoever. This team probably isn't going to be good, but damn, they are going to play their tails off every night. This isn't Texas Shaka, this is VCU Shaka, you can tell he genuinely feels a sense of freedom.
It's the first time in a long time I know what MU basketball's identity and brand are going to be, it's refreshing. Great eff'n win, lots of fist pumping and high fives at my house tonight.
(https://www.memesmonkey.com/images/memesmonkey/44/4486f34e22a0d4c9f3314d043dc26751.jpeg)
The crowd seemed pretty decent on TV. How was it in person?
NO MORE CROW SUPPORT THIS REGIME.
Coming at you live from FF.
Wojo threw a shoe through his tv tonight.
Fantastic.
Kolek and Kuath had some answers for their doubters tonight. Looks like they're going to be OK.
The old make more FT's than they take worked. Probably what bailed us out is forcing twice as many TO's as FT's we missed.
3-point shooting doesn't seem to be a strength. 19 for 70 on the year (27%).
Rebounding still a problem but I liked the adjustment at the under 8 in the 2nd half- "Find your man." Things were different after that.
It could be we're a team that plays to the level of our competition - that seems to be what we've seen. I didn't like that against the cupcakes, but if they can do it against top 10 talent, I think we're going to be happy with this squad.
Haven't seen this kind of energy from MU in, oh, say seven years. These kids seem to have bought in to Shaka and that psychs me up.
As my bride and I were exchanging high tens after the game, she said "I haven't been this excited about rooting for Marquette since I don't even know when!" I know just how she was feeling.
Quote from: MU24 on November 15, 2021, 08:21:29 PM
Holy cow is it fun to watch a MU team that feels like an "MU TEAM". Gritty. Defensive minded.
Was thinking the same thing. The whole game the defense was tough. They risked at times and got burned but wow. Defense won. Great great win for a team with an identity! This is MU basketball. Now let's get the rebounding, free throws and 3 point shooting fixed and this team will be a tough out. Go Marquette! .
Really impressed with our toughness - played through a lot of adversity (much of which was of our own making) and (I repeat myself) refused to settle for the "moral victory". There will be bumps due to inexperience and lack of talent in some areas but I love how these guys get after it!
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on November 15, 2021, 08:53:26 PM
Fantastic.
Kolek and Kuath had some answers for their doubters tonight. Looks like they're going to be OK.
The old make more FT's than they take worked. Probably what bailed us out is forcing twice as many TO's as FT's we missed.
3-point shooting doesn't seem to be a strength. 19 for 70 on the year (27%).
Rebounding still a problem but I liked the adjustment at the under 8 in the 2nd half- "Find your man." Things were different after that.
It could be we're a team that plays to the level of our competition - that seems to be what we've seen. I didn't like that against the cupcakes, but if they can do it against top 10 talent, I think we're going to be happy with this squad.
Haven't seen this kind of energy from MU in, oh, say seven years. These kids seem to have bought in to Shaka and that psychs me up.
As my bride and I were exchanging high tens after the game, she said "I haven't been this excited about rooting for Marquette since I don't even know when!" I know just how she was feeling.
I told my dad this last night. Either were SIUE/UNH level or we play to our competition
Watched the Kolek steal replay. Definitely a pre-set trap play. Executed perfectly. Imagine winning a game with defense?
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 15, 2021, 09:01:21 PM
Watched the Kolek steal replay. Definitely a pre-set trap play. Executed perfectly. Imagine winning a game with defense?
Are you allowed to kick a ball to steal it? Never seen that before, and thought the refs just missed it.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 15, 2021, 09:02:49 PM
Are you allowed to kick a ball to steal it? Never seen that before, and thought the refs just missed it.
Soccer Rules
If you can catch your own pass and pass it to a teammate for a three, you can shin a ball to steal it
Fantastic win in a game that they had no business winning. Great coaching job by Shaka to recognize that their best way to win was to turn it into a slopfest, and then to pull it off.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 15, 2021, 09:01:21 PM
Watched the Kolek steal replay. Definitely a pre-set trap play. Executed perfectly. Imagine winning a game with defense?
We've talked about this extensively in the game day chat. I am thrilled to say is it's nice to be back to being a team that generates momentum from our defense.
Love the fitness level of the guys, love the high motors
I expected a kicked ball whistle but never got a good look in the replays.
Porky has been rolling in it for the last hour! Great W but Porky's enthusiasm is still measured. Not to be negative but lest we forget, we beat a 4th ranked Badger team around this time last year and we all remember how
last year's season ended so baby steps.
Elliott will help cover some of those holes like three point shooting and being in there at the end instead of Mitchell.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 15, 2021, 09:01:21 PM
Watched the Kolek steal replay. Definitely a pre-set trap play. Executed perfectly. Imagine winning a game with defense?
I was screaming at the guys to double, go for a steal and then foul if necessary. I was frustrated they weren't doing it, but they did as soon as the ball got into the frontcourt. Very nice!
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 15, 2021, 09:02:49 PM
Are you allowed to kick a ball to steal it? Never seen that before, and thought the refs just missed it.
It should have been called a kick IMHO. Glad it wasn't! That's the penalty for dribbling without knowing what's going on around you.
If the kick is not intentional they play on. Completely up to the ref as to what is an intentional kick and what is not.
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on November 15, 2021, 09:06:57 PM
I expected a kicked ball whistle but never got a good look in the replays.
MU wouldn't have had much of an argument if it was called a kick. Could have gone either way.
This. Unintentional kicks are not violations although I understand the board's confusion as a many referees don't seem to know that it has to be intentional to be a violation. Proper no call.
Wojo's not coming back to the bench, so i don't expect massive regression as the season goes.
Quote from: PorkysButthole on November 15, 2021, 09:07:52 PM
Porky has been rolling in it for the last hour! Great W but Porky's enthusiasm is still measured. Not to be negative but lest we forget, we beat a 4th ranked Badger team around this time last year and we all remember how
last year's season ended so baby steps.
Quote from: Osiris on November 15, 2021, 09:14:31 PM
This. Unintentional kicks are not violations although I understand the board's confusion as a many referees don't seem to know that it has to be intentional to be a violation. Proper no call.
I know very well that unintentional kicks are not violations. But I think one could make a pretty good argument that was intentional ... and I think every Marquette fan would be making exactly that argument if the game was won for Illinois after one of their players had done the exact same thing.
Quote from: MU82 on November 15, 2021, 09:21:25 PM
I know very well that unintentional kicks are not violations. But I think one could make a pretty good argument that was intentional ... and I think every Marquette fan would be making exactly that argument if the game was won for Illinois after one of their players had done the exact same thing.
No question. I might even be in that crowd. But we'd be wrong.
@MarquetteMBB: Relive the game winner from another angle‼️‼️
@KolekTyler
#MUBB | #WeAreMarquette https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1460446428107526145/video/1
As Jerry Seinfeld would say, "there was no kick"
No really, from this view there wasn't
Quote from: MU82 on November 15, 2021, 09:21:25 PM
I know very well that unintentional kicks are not violations. But I think one could make a pretty good argument that was intentional ... and I think every Marquette fan would be making exactly that argument if the game was won for Illinois after one of their players had done the exact same thing.
True, but to MUEng's point, that jump out up the air and pass to yourself and then pass for a three was a terrible call too. Evened out.
Quote from: MUEng92 on November 15, 2021, 09:24:52 PM
@MarquetteMBB: Relive the game winner from another angle‼️‼️
@KolekTyler
#MUBB | #WeAreMarquette https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1460446428107526145/video/1
As Jerry Seinfeld would say, "there was no kick"
No really, from this view there wasn't
Interesting angle but I really couldn't tell about kick/no-kick from it.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on November 15, 2021, 09:27:53 PM
True, but to MUEng's point, that jump out up the air and pass to yourself and then pass for a three was a terrible call too. Evened out.
Yeah, I was yellin' at the TV about that one.
It wasn't the best-officiated game. Thankfully, I thought we benefited from more could-go-either-way calls. That's what home cookin's supposed to be!
Quote from: MUEng92 on November 15, 2021, 09:24:52 PM
@MarquetteMBB: Relive the game winner from another angle‼️‼️
@KolekTyler
#MUBB | #WeAreMarquette https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1460446428107526145/video/1
As Jerry Seinfeld would say, "there was no kick"
No really, from this view there wasn't
Hard to slow that down enough to tell for sure, but in this frame grab it's fairly close. Now, I'm not really trying to make a big deal of it, was just a question. I think we were gonna steal that ball anyway.
Quote from: Afroman on November 15, 2021, 08:46:02 PM
The crowd seemed pretty decent on TV. How was it in person?
I believe announcers were not at Fiserv. I got home to watch to Tyler steal. Volume wasn't the same as inside the building. Crowd was outstanding!
Free throws matta for my blood pressure.
Ring out ahoya!
The Warrior brand is back and sweet baby Jesus is that a welcome sight. Thank you Shaka. Great win boys!
"Fans were a big factor...huge...we have guys in new roles...fans were huge...on the road...fantastic crowd...loud building....beautiful building..."
Brad Underwood (according to Dodds)
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 15, 2021, 09:30:32 PM
Hard to slow that down enough to tell for sure, but in this frame grab it's fairly close. Now, I'm not really trying to make a big deal of it, was just a question. I think we were gonna steal that ball anyway.
Good Lord you are truly a wet blanket.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 15, 2021, 09:30:32 PM
I think we were gonna steal that ball anyway.
I like this take on it! Thus, it is so!!
Quote from: Afroman on November 15, 2021, 08:46:02 PM
The crowd seemed pretty decent on TV. How was it in person?
The students deserve so much credit. They were absolutely fantastic.
The fancy seats were a little bare of sweater vests.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 15, 2021, 09:01:21 PM
Watched the Kolek steal replay. Definitely a pre-set trap play. Executed perfectly. Imagine winning a game with defense?
The relentless defense will wear teams down by the end of games. The Illini guards were gassed. As they become even better defensively it will become increasingly fun to watch. I think the offense will come around slowly but surely and we will all get what we want, a team that is better at the end of the season than they were at the beginning.
Quote from: Mr. Nielsen on November 15, 2021, 09:30:40 PM
I believe announcers were not at Fiserv. I got home to watch to Tyler steal. Volume wasn't the same as inside the building. Crowd was outstanding!
Yes—so much fun!
Students were awesome again!
The cheers when Shaka is announced is deafening.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on November 15, 2021, 09:39:46 PM
The students deserve so much credit. They were absolutely fantastic.
The fancy seats were a little bare of sweater vests.
Sweater vests seem to miss the Wojo era.
Let me make this clear. If you are a baby boomer and get offended at those around you standing, cheering, etc, while you are scrolling instagram - DO NOT COME TO THE FISERV FORUM! The outcome will be the same with or without you.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on November 15, 2021, 09:43:12 PM
Let me make this clear. If you are a baby boomer and get offended at those around you standing, cheering, etc, while you are scrolling instagram - DO NOT COME TO THE FISERV FORUM! The outcome will be the same with or without you.
Fucking ageism
sweater vests dont show cuz no wojo? wahh?
Quote from: Mutaman on November 15, 2021, 09:47:06 PM
unnatural carnal knowledgeing ageism
If you are a boomer AND the remainder of my criteria. If you only meet the first criterion and not the second - happy to have you!
Watching the replay of the steal, the call by the FS1 announcer was no bueno, probably a by product of not being in the building.
https://twitter.com/BIGEASTMBB/status/1460453824079044608?t=9YboJwbD_kY64mddyQK15Q&s=19
MU with 10 stops in the last 11 defensive possessions.
Wowza
Quote from: Pakuni on November 15, 2021, 09:11:14 PM
MU wouldn't have had much of an argument if it was called a kick. Could have gone either way.
Yup. From my seat, with my blue and gold prescription lenses, it looked like he dribbled it off Kolek
Great W.
Quote from: tower912 on November 15, 2021, 08:22:35 PM
Reminded me of the Detroit/Steelers OT. But somebody had to win. Elated it was MU.
Are people here expecting a product that's pleasing to look at? We are going to win games we shouldn't by mucking it up - like we did tonight. Illinois had 26 turnovers and, trust me, that wasn't by accident.
You hope the shooting and rebounding improve at least somewhat, but get used to scrappy, ugly, junkyard games. If you want to watch a team play straight up and something easier to predict before tipoff, I believe the previous coach is still looking for employment.
Win didn't do much for our KenPom. Went from #95 to #88.
Illinois, in the meantime, goes from #4 to #5.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 15, 2021, 09:30:32 PM
Hard to slow that down enough to tell for sure, but in this frame grab it's fairly close. Now, I'm not really trying to make a big deal of it, was just a question. I think we were gonna steal that ball anyway.
That's as much of a kick as Jay Whitehead's dunk was offensive goaltending.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 15, 2021, 09:08:01 PM
Elliott will help cover some of those holes like three point shooting and being in there at the end instead of Mitchell.
Thinking about Greg Elliott trying to check Curbello is giving me the sweats.
Yep, nothing like going out of your way to try to discredit a huge win by this team.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on November 15, 2021, 09:36:58 PM
Good Lord you are truly a wet blanket.
My observations are I don't know how Maryland let Morsell get away, he's a gamer. Kolek needs to be more of a scorer. His natural instinct is that of a passer, always looking to set up his teammates, which is awesome but this team needs scoring and he can get places on the court that most guys can't. This Kur is very valuable. Mitchell is a gamer as well.
And Shaka is awesome. Went away from the trapping zone once Illinois started exposing the corner 3s. Moved to more of a man to man that let Morsell check Frazier. Trusted the freshman over OMax to close the game out.
Quote from: BLM on November 15, 2021, 10:33:06 PM
My observations are I don't know how Maryland let Morsell get away, he's a gamer. Kolek needs to be more of a scorer. His natural instinct is that of a passer, always looking to set up his teammates, which is awesome but this team needs scoring and he can get places on the court that most guys can't. This Kur is very valuable. Mitchell is a gamer as well.
And Shaka is awesome. Went away from the trapping zone once Illinois started exposing the corner 3s. Moved to more of a man to man that let Morsell check Frazier. Trusted the freshman over OMax to close the game out.
You're right -- lots of excellent adjustments by Shaka. Absolutely give him props, and give the guys props for executing the plan.
4-5 hours ago, what we knew about Kuath was that he looked lost on both ends of the court against two cupcakes, so I'll reserve judgment a little bit about any kind of long-range proclamation, but he sure was huge for us tonight. Kolek also played well after a meh game vs UNH, so that's 2 out of 3 good performances. I think that's what will happen some this season -- a guy will have a good game, a bad game, two good games, an OK game, a bad game, etc. Most of these guys are not used to being important players on a P6 team.
As for Morsell, I don't know his backstory well. Do we know why he felt he had to leave Maryland?
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 15, 2021, 09:30:32 PM
Hard to slow that down enough to tell for sure, but in this frame grab it's fairly close. Now, I'm not really trying to make a big deal of it, was just a question. I think we were gonna steal that ball anyway.
Seemed pretty clear to Porky the kick was not intentional. More like the ball bounced off of his foot. Everything was happening too quickly and in Porky's view it was a good no call. Not even sure if the refs saw it but that's how it goes sometimes. Even if they did it seems to Porky it would have been a really difficult call to make under those circumstances. It's not like there was a scramble for a loose ball and Kolek kicked it away so he could grab it. In that case then it definitely would have been appropriate for the ref to call that. If one really wants to pour cold water on this W, pointing out Kofi Cockburn didn't play is a much stronger case than the Kolek kick no call.
Quote from: MU82 on November 15, 2021, 10:46:26 PM
You're right -- lots of excellent adjustments by Shaka. Absolutely give him props, and give the guys props for executing the plan.
4-5 hours ago, what we knew about Kuath was that he looked lost on both ends of the court against two cupcakes, so I'll reserve judgment a little bit about any kind of long-range proclamation, but he sure was huge for us tonight. Kolek also played well after a meh game vs UNH, so that's 2 out of 3 good performances. I think that's what will happen some this season -- a guy will have a good game, a bad game, two good games, an OK game, a bad game, etc. Most of these guys are not used to being important players on a P6 team.
As for Morsell, I don't know his backstory well. Do we know why he felt he had to leave Maryland?
He wants to showcase his talents and go to the league
- When Frazier was killing us, Shaka moved Morsell from Curbelo to Frazier. Kudos to freshman Stevie coming up big enough to keep Curbelo from taking over so Morsell could shut Frazier down.
- Kolek's anticipation and timing was so good on the winning play. He was that dude tonight, never bigger than that play.
- Those writing off Kur may have been a little premature.
- If this team was good at offense, we'd be the top-10 team. But man, shooting from three and the line was terrible.
- The Fiserv was electric from the 6-0 run that gave us our first lead at 8-7. That was the best atmosphere since Markus was dropping 45 on K-State and Buffalo. So good to be back for a meaningful WIN.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 15, 2021, 10:18:44 PM
Win didn't do much for our KenPom. Went from #95 to #88.
Illinois, in the meantime, goes from #4 to #5.
Sound about right. One low margin victory at home for us (and away for them) wouldn't cause much movement.
This game is Example 1A of how much Wojo boned us the last 3-4 years. Marquette basketball is a brand and it was abused and neglected until now.
One of the best home wins of the past 30 years.
Quote from: The Lens on November 15, 2021, 11:06:57 PM
This game is Example 1A of how much Wojo boned us the last 3-4 years. Marquette basketball is a brand and it was abused and neglected until now.
One of the best home wins of the past 30 years.
+9999999999999
Quote from: The Lens on November 15, 2021, 11:06:57 PM
This game is Example 1A of how much Wojo boned us the last 3-4 years. Marquette basketball is a brand and it was abused and neglected until now.
One of the best home wins of the past 30 years.
I mean, I'm glad things worked out the way they did, but we beat #4 Wisconsin at home last year with a similarly young team and our coach got fired. Winning is better than losing but it's a long season!
Quote from: THRILLHO on November 15, 2021, 11:10:06 PM
I mean, I'm glad things worked out the way they did, but we beat #4 Wisconsin at home last year with a similarly young team and our coach got fired. Winning is better than losing but it's a long season!
Not the same at all
Quote from: THRILLHO on November 15, 2021, 11:10:06 PM
I mean, I'm glad things worked out the way they did, but we beat #4 Wisconsin at home last year with a similarly young team and our coach got fired. Winning is better than losing but it's a long season!
In front of 4 fans
Quote from: The Lens on November 15, 2021, 11:06:57 PM
This game is Example 1A of how much Wojo boned us the last 3-4 years. Marquette basketball is a brand and it was abused and neglected until now.
One of the best home wins of the past 30 years.
Pump the brakes just a tad. Great win and all, but Illinois was without its best player. We've seen plenty of home wins over much better teams over the past 30 years.
Quote from: BLM on November 15, 2021, 10:33:06 PM
My observations are I don't know how Maryland let Morsell get away, he's a gamer. Kolek needs to be more of a scorer. His natural instinct is that of a passer, always looking to set up his teammates, which is awesome but this team needs scoring and he can get places on the court that most guys can't. This Kur is very valuable. Mitchell is a gamer as well.
And Shaka is awesome. Went away from the trapping zone once Illinois started exposing the corner 3s. Moved to more of a man to man that let Morsell check Frazier. Trusted the freshman over OMax to close the game out.
There was a graphic that he played 120 games at Maryland and had 0 20 point games. He's played three games at Marquette and had 3 20 point games. That helps explain it.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 15, 2021, 11:31:06 PM
Pump the brakes just a tad. Great win and all, but Illinois was without its best player. We've seen plenty of home wins over much better teams over the past 30 years.
(https://media4.giphy.com/media/Evp4SYXEt5oly/200.gif)
Long way to go before tournament talk, but I can't recall...does the selection committee take into account that Cockburn didn't play tonight or does this win look the same on resume regardless? That's really the only thing that matters in my mind.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 15, 2021, 11:31:06 PM
Pump the brakes just a tad. Great win and all, but Illinois was without its best player. We've seen plenty of home wins over much better teams over the past 30 years.
You pump the brakes. I'll let you order QDoba and have a get together.
The rest of us are ready to rock.
I am not looking forward to Thursday.
It worked for Monday so I thought I would try it for Thursday.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 15, 2021, 11:31:06 PM
Pump the brakes just a tad. Great win and all, but Illinois was without its best player. We've seen plenty of home wins over much better teams over the past 30 years.
That is what happened over the last 7 years. Wojo would win a big game but seldom if ever let that winning momentum carry on to the next game. Let's hope Shaka can keep the winning streak going. If all the games are like the last 3 where we were not sure of the outcome this will be one of the most entertaining seasons in a long time.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 15, 2021, 08:18:22 PM
We got a VERY favorable whistle.
It feels like the first time we got some home cooking refereeing against a high major opponent in forever. I think aggressive defense helps. They easily could have called Kolek for a foul on the game winning play, let alone a kick.
It was not pretty but a great win for the Warriors.
I was ready to settle for a moral victory. Love the way MU fought back when they got down double digits. Great defense by Kuath at winning time. The soft block that he was able to grab himself was a thing of beauty. Gutty performance, which used to be our calling card and looks like may be again. There will be head scratching performances from a team that shoots like we do, but nights like last night are why I love college basketball.
Quote from: CountryRoads on November 15, 2021, 11:41:06 PM
Long way to go before tournament talk, but I can't recall...does the selection committee take into account that Cockburn didn't play tonight or does this win look the same on resume regardless? That's really the only thing that matters in my mind.
The general guidance is if you're without a player, it doesn't hurt you. So Illinois might get a pass for the loss. But it isn't viewed differently for the team that wins, so at the end of the year for us, this is a win over #XX Illinois.
While it seems contradictory to count it for one team and not the other, it's simply a quantity thing. Let's say Kofi misses 5 games later in the year and Illinois goes 1-4 in that stretch but is 26-8 on Selection Sunday. It's not that tough to say "they were 23-3 with him and 3-5 without, so we'll not hold the 5 against them as much" but recalibrating for those 5 teams that got the win, particularly when there are going to be dozens of players that miss games for top-100 teams, it's just too much when you're trying to build a bracket in a week.
Quote from: CTWarrior on November 16, 2021, 05:21:36 AM
It feels like the first time we got some home cooking refereeing against a high major opponent in forever. I think aggressive defense helps. They easily could have called Kolek for a foul on the game winning play, let alone a kick.
Having a respected, experienced and established coach matters with refs
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 15, 2021, 11:03:03 PM
- When Frazier was killing us, Shaka moved Morsell from Curbelo to Frazier. Kudos to freshman Stevie coming up big enough to keep Curbelo from taking over so Morsell could shut Frazier down.
- Kolek's anticipation and timing was so good on the winning play. He was that dude tonight, never bigger than that play.
- Those writing off Kur may have been a little premature.
- If this team was good at offense, we'd be the top-10 team. But man, shooting from three and the line was terrible.
- The Fiserv was electric from the 6-0 run that gave us our first lead at 8-7. That was the best atmosphere since Markus was dropping 45 on K-State and Buffalo. So good to be back for a meaningful WIN.
Regarding Kur, I think Illinois was a far better matchup for him than our first two opponents who were both undersized. Classic ineffective big man due to nobody to match up against.
Not saying he played well in first two games at all but he was in a better situation to do his thing last night.
Quote from: THRILLHO on November 15, 2021, 11:10:06 PM
I mean, I'm glad things worked out the way they did, but we beat #4 Wisconsin at home last year with a similarly young team and our coach got fired. Winning is better than losing but it's a long season!
Wojo was in year 7, Shaka is in game 3. Wojo had built his "brand" , Shaka just recruited the building blocks for his "brand".
Sure they're both top 10 wins. But they came a very different times in each coaches tenure and have extremely different back stories. Nothing about them is the same and the trajectory is vastly different.
Context is key. MU fans have had their program high jacked from them by trust fund elites (Duke grads) who didn't get what #mubb is all about. Our identity was stripped away.
We've been irrelevant since the NBE. Sure Kevin, Mike & Buzz all won HUGE games in the past 30 years. So yes, I'm indulging in some hyperbole but this was a game where we announced to America that we're back. The MU that people saw during Buzz & KO is once again cooking. I saw smiles on fans faces I hadn't seen in 10 years.
Last night was step one on a magical journey.
We're back.
We play defense, and we're a problem.
We are Marquette.
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on November 16, 2021, 07:20:19 AM
Wojo was in year 7, Shaka is in game 3. Wojo had built his "brand" , Shaka just recruited the building blocks for his "brand".
Sure they're both top 10 wins. But they came a very different times in each coaches tenure and have extremely different back stories. Nothing about them is the same and the trajectory is vastly different.
Correct 100%. Also, although Wisconsin was a relatively good team, they were nowhere near good enough to be the number 4 team in the country. They proceeded to go .500 in the Big 10. Illinois and will remain ranked in the Top 15 the rest of the season and compete for the Big 10 title.
Why must people try to dilute this win by trying to draw Wojo comparisons? Was Wojo merely a symptom of some underlying disease?
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on November 16, 2021, 07:32:25 AM
Correct 100%. Also, although Wisconsin was a relatively good team, they were nowhere near good enough to be the number 4 team in the country. They proceeded to go .500 in the Big 10. Illinois and will remain ranked in the Top 15 the rest of the season and compete for the Big 10 title.
Why must people try to dilute this win by trying to draw Wojo comparisons? Was Wojo merely a symptom of some underlying disease?
No one's trying to dilute it.
Why must people compare this win to everything in the last 7 years? Your insistence in comparing this to Wojo is weird. But I get it. I'm a huge Shaka fan.
But I saw a LOT of people smiling when we beat #1 nova. I walked out of the Kohl Hole with a lot of smiling MUBB fans after the Howard throat slash game.
I get it! New era! I'm pumped. But to say we had no other big wins in the last 7 years isn't true. And correcting that isn't dilution.
The Lens
I agree 100%. We are a basketball school and our program should be a brand. The perfect guy was hired and last night is a baby step in the process. This team may not be great, but there is no doubt they will playing tough as nails for 40 minutes. That is/was my complete reasoning for optimism this season. These guys are following a leader and that is the foundation of any successful program.
Down the road we will be talking about this season and how it was the turning point for the program. Better player will arrive, but this team will be remembered for being the start of the rebirth of the MU brand.
—that Stevie Mitchell D at the end of the game was great.
—get these kids on the free throw line. Sheesh.
—kam jones loves to shoot. Would be nice if a few more went in.
—it was good to see even Joplin and EE get in to play a bit in a tough game like this. Not a ton of minutes but important for their progression! They can say they played in this game and in this win. That's huge for them mentally.
—loved how Justin Lewis ran out with the ball at the end. He definitely looks faster this year. And was able to escape what looked like was an attempted NFL tackle.
—curbello stinks. We got lucky playing them without Kofi.
—huge win in front of a huge crowd. The crowd was great last night! Was hoping for more students but still great! Hope this brings back all the fans. Too many upper deck seats open.
Quote from: fjm on November 16, 2021, 07:34:52 AM
But I saw a LOT of people smiling when we beat #1 nova. I walked out of the Kohl Hole with a lot of smiling MUBB fans after the Howard throat slash game.
I was at both these games. Was one of the first group of students to rush in game 1 and started the "We Are Marquette" chant from the last row in the building in game 2.
But even still, those felt different than this. I told the person I was with at the game that that was easily the most entertaining MU game I've been to in the last 7 years. Is that anti-Wojo bias? Maybe. But I'm sure I'm not the only one that walked out and said that.
Feels good to have a brand.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on November 16, 2021, 07:41:16 AM
I was at both these games. Was one of the first group of students to rush in game 1 and started the "We Are Marquette" chant from the last row in the building in game 2.
But even still, those felt different than this. I told the person I was with at the game that that was easily the most entertaining MU game I've been to in the last 7 years. Is that anti-Wojo bias? Maybe. But I'm sure I'm not the only one that walked out and said that.
Feels good to have a brand.
Hey I get the bias. Those were awesome games! I get your point dude. I promise.
Last night felt different for sure and a breath of fresh air.
If we coulda hit some free throws, could have been a 3-5 point victory.
Quote from: MUEng92 on November 15, 2021, 09:04:41 PM
If you can catch your own pass and pass it to a teammate for a three, you can shin a ball to steal it
Again, if it is judged a shot by the ref, you can get your own rebound. Unlike the NBA, it doesn't have to hit the rim or backboard.
And Kolek didn't kick it. The dude dribbled it off his leg.
I'll echo the thoughts in this thread... that was an identity building performance. Not just because they won. That was a bonus. But the effort, fight, and ability to keep coming at Illinois when things looked dicey are what I'll take from this one.
I want Marquette to be a team that is a total pain in the ass to play against. That's how we've been at our best, and it's about damn time we get back to it. Last night was a great first step.
Quote from: The Lens on November 16, 2021, 07:28:57 AM
I saw smiles on fans faces I hadn't seen in 10 years.
I don't know about you, but I smiled a lot when we were beating Ben Simmons, when we were hoisting up the trophy at Barclays, when we beat Madison 4x, when we beat a top-10 Providence team on Hank's block, when we beat No. 7 Creighton and then followed with a storm-the-court win over No. 1 defending champion Nova, when we smacked down a top-15 Seton Hall team by 20, when Markus went off against K-State and Buffalo, when Sam hit that effen shot against Creighton and then Markus capped a 53-point game with a stellar OT, when we were going 20-2 over a 3-month stretch, when we crushed Butler on NMD, and when Justin tapped in the winner against Madison, among other occasions.
I also smiled plenty during the 2012-13 season, including while I was sitting at the MCI Center (or whatever it was called) and watching Marquette dismantle Miami to reach the Elite 8. These people you're referencing didn't smile then? That's an effen shame!
If you and other Marquette fans didn't smile when any of that was happening, that's on you and them.
I am thrilled, thrilled, thrilled that we won last night, and I'm hoping that it's a Marquette-is-back-baby statement. I mostly am hoping that Shaka does prove to be the championship-level coach that his predecessor never came close to being. But I don't see why it is necessary to pretend that we didn't enjoy beating Nova and Creighton and Madison and UConn and Miami in past years -- that there was no reason to smile.
I'm hoping that this program, under this coach, does get it done because I'm a Marquette fan, just as I was hoping for the same under the previous coach and the previous coach and the previous coach.
I'm not trying to be a wet blanket. I'm a big believer in enjoying the moment, and I'm still celebrating last night's win. But I don't see why it's necessary to rewrite history to enjoy last night.
I had a pretty big smile on my face after Sam grabbed that rebound to seal the 2017 Nova win. If you didn't, I feel bad for you.
Quote from: fjm on November 16, 2021, 07:34:52 AM
No one's trying to dilute it.
Why must people compare this win to everything in the last 7 years? Your insistence in comparing this to Wojo is weird. But I get it. I'm a huge Shaka fan.
But I saw a LOT of people smiling when we beat #1 nova. I walked out of the Kohl Hole with a lot of smiling MUBB fans after the Howard throat slash game.
I get it! New era! I'm pumped. But to say we had no other big wins in the last 7 years isn't true. And correcting that isn't dilution.
This. Of course.
We Are Marquette!
Quote from: fjm on November 16, 2021, 07:39:16 AM
—that Stevie Mitchell D at the end of the game was great.
—get these kids on the free throw line. Sheesh.
—kam jones loves to shoot. Would be nice if a few more went in.
—it was good to see even Joplin and EE get in to play a bit in a tough game like this. Not a ton of minutes but important for their progression! They can say they played in this game and in this win. That's huge for them mentally.
—loved how Justin Lewis ran out with the ball at the end. He definitely looks faster this year. And was able to escape what looked like was an attempted NFL tackle.
—curbello stinks. We got lucky playing them without Kofi.
—huge win in front of a huge crowd. The crowd was great last night! Was hoping for more students but still great! Hope this brings back all the fans. Too many upper deck seats open.
I'll tell you right now. He stunk tonight(we get some credit for that)
But he's a legit PG. Watched him a lot last year and the guy is a wizard with some of his passing and is so good at getting into the lane for a guy who can't shoot a lick.
This win is gonna look better later on because Curbelo is gonna have a lot of great games down the road
Top 30 defensive turnover team. Sub-200 offensive turnover team 2 of the last 3 years to 76th as of today. Forcing all kinds of turnovers, too, not just steals. An incredible difference in personality.
Top 20 at getting to the line but also putting the opponent at the line a lot.
Rebounding no bueno. 3-pt numbers on both sides of the ball no bueno.
Only 2 players +100 in efficiency.
3-0 with a lot of room to get better. As good a start after 3 games they could have wished for
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 16, 2021, 08:02:49 AM
Top 30 defensive turnover team. Sub-200 offensive turnover team 2 of the last 3 years to 76th as of today. Forcing all kinds of turnovers, too, not just steals. An incredible difference in personality.
Top 20 at getting to the line but also putting the opponent at the line a lot.
Rebounding no bueno. 3-pt numbers on both sides of the ball no bueno.
Only 2 players +100 in efficiency.
3-0 with a lot of room to get better. As good a start after 3 games they could have wished for
32 deflections
MU82
I said many times that Wojo's best season was fool's gold and I still believe that. Yes, they won big games and I was very happy, but never did I think he was turning the corner with the program. I was very optimistic going into this season simply off Shaka and his system. I think MU turned the corner as a program the day Shaka was hired. Again, I never felt that Wojo's program was going anywhere. Not all big wins are equal, and IMO, last night was different. Everyone knows that we do not have top talent at the moment, but most now know this program is going to play tough on every possession.
82, you're right. 10 years is too much, don't mean to wash away Buzz's success.
But the last 7 years were done some other way. It never felt ours. We were borrowing some other culture and trying to rewrite who we were. Tonight we announced We Are Back, We Play Defense, We Are a Problem and We Are MARQUETTE.
Show us on the doll where the bad man touched you
::)
Quote from: MU82 on November 16, 2021, 07:57:49 AM
I'm not trying to be a wet blanket. I'm a big believer in enjoying the moment, and I'm still celebrating last night's win. But I don't see why it's necessary to rewrite history to enjoy last night.
#TeamRocky
Quote from: MU82 on November 16, 2021, 07:57:49 AM
I don't know about you, but I smiled a lot when we were beating Ben Simmons, when we were hoisting up the trophy at Barclays, when we beat Madison 4x, when we beat a top-10 Providence team on Hank's block, when we beat No. 7 Creighton and then followed with a storm-the-court win over No. 1 defending champion Nova, when we smacked down a top-15 Seton Hall team by 20, when Markus went off against K-State and Buffalo, when Sam hit that effen shot against Creighton and then Markus capped a 53-point game with a stellar OT, when we were going 20-2 over a 3-month stretch, when we crushed Butler on NMD, and when Justin tapped in the winner against Madison, among other occasions.
I also smiled plenty during the 2012-13 season, including while I was sitting at the MCI Center (or whatever it was called) and watching Marquette dismantle Miami to reach the Elite 8. These people you're referencing didn't smile then? That's an effen shame!
If you and other Marquette fans didn't smile when any of that was happening, that's on you and them.
I am thrilled, thrilled, thrilled that we won last night, and I'm hoping that it's a Marquette-is-back-baby statement. I mostly am hoping that Shaka does prove to be the championship-level coach that his predecessor never came close to being. But I don't see why it is necessary to pretend that we didn't enjoy beating Nova and Creighton and Madison and UConn and Miami in past years -- that there was no reason to smile.
I'm hoping that this program, under this coach, does get it done because I'm a Marquette fan, just as I was hoping for the same under the previous coach and the previous coach and the previous coach.
I'm not trying to be a wet blanket. I'm a big believer in enjoying the moment, and I'm still celebrating last night's win. But I don't see why it's necessary to rewrite history to enjoy last night.
I had a pretty big smile on my face after Sam grabbed that rebound to seal the 2017 Nova win. If you didn't, I feel bad for you.
This. Of course.
We Are Marquette!
No one said no smiles. We said different smiles. Nice strawman, though.
Quote from: tower912 on November 15, 2021, 08:17:08 PM
2. Despite bad rebounding, offensive flow. But the defense was enough.
I, too, am concerned about the rebounds. But then I look at the box score and see 26 turnovers for UofI. Our defensive style doesn't lend well to rebounding. We throw bodies at the ball before it gets shot, resulting in being out of place for rebounding. I'm assuming it's a conscious decision Shaka has made - to give up one for the other.
However, it can and should be better than it has been through 3 games.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 16, 2021, 08:04:14 AM
32 deflections
Shaka said in the Inside Marquette Basketball interview on Thursday that they focus on 32 deflections because his teams are 100-1 when they reach that number. When I saw they got to 30 last night with a few minutes left, I was really wondering if that was going to go to 100-2 because of our shooting but they managed to pull it out to get to 101-1.
That one loss? It was against Tom Crean and Georgia in 2019 because of absolutely scorching shooting from UGA. Crean's team hit 64.5% of their twos and 70.6% of their threes. They had a staggering 100 eFG% for the game.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 16, 2021, 08:25:42 AM
Shaka said in the Inside Marquette Basketball interview on Thursday that they focus on 32 deflections because his teams are 100-1 when they reach that number. When I saw they got to 30 last night with a few minutes left, I was really wondering if that was going to go to 100-2 because of our shooting but they managed to pull it out to get to 101-1.
That one loss? It was against Tom Crean and Georgia in 2019 because of absolutely scorching shooting from UGA. Crean's team hit 64.5% of their twos and 70.6% of their threes. They had a staggering 100 eFG% for the game.
Wow - didn't know that. That's awesome!
Quote from: MU82 on November 16, 2021, 07:57:49 AM
I don't know about you, but I smiled a lot when we were beating Ben Simmons, when we were hoisting up the trophy at Barclays, when we beat Madison 4x, when we beat a top-10 Providence team on Hank's block, when we beat No. 7 Creighton and then followed with a storm-the-court win over No. 1 defending champion Nova, when we smacked down a top-15 Seton Hall team by 20, when Markus went off against K-State and Buffalo, when Sam hit that effen shot against Creighton and then Markus capped a 53-point game with a stellar OT, when we were going 20-2 over a 3-month stretch, when we crushed Butler on NMD, and when Justin tapped in the winner against Madison, among other occasions.
I also smiled plenty during the 2012-13 season, including while I was sitting at the MCI Center (or whatever it was called) and watching Marquette dismantle Miami to reach the Elite 8. These people you're referencing didn't smile then? That's an effen shame!
If you and other Marquette fans didn't smile when any of that was happening, that's on you and them.
I am thrilled, thrilled, thrilled that we won last night, and I'm hoping that it's a Marquette-is-back-baby statement. I mostly am hoping that Shaka does prove to be the championship-level coach that his predecessor never came close to being. But I don't see why it is necessary to pretend that we didn't enjoy beating Nova and Creighton and Madison and UConn and Miami in past years -- that there was no reason to smile.
I'm hoping that this program, under this coach, does get it done because I'm a Marquette fan, just as I was hoping for the same under the previous coach and the previous coach and the previous coach.
I'm not trying to be a wet blanket. I'm a big believer in enjoying the moment, and I'm still celebrating last night's win. But I don't see why it's necessary to rewrite history to enjoy last night.
I had a pretty big smile on my face after Sam grabbed that rebound to seal the 2017 Nova win. If you didn't, I feel bad for you.
This. Of course.
We Are Marquette!
This is pretty much exactly what I was thinking. Well said. Super happy Wojo is gone. Even more happy Shaka is here. Go Warriors!
Quote from: The Lens on November 16, 2021, 07:28:57 AM
Context is key. MU fans have had their program high jacked from them by trust fund elites (Duke grads) who didn't get what #mubb is all about. Our identity was stripped away.
We've been irrelevant since the NBE. Sure Kevin, Mike & Buzz all won HUGE games in the past 30 years. So yes, I'm indulging in some hyperbole but this was a game where we announced to America that we're back. The MU that people saw during Buzz & KO is once again cooking. I saw smiles on fans faces I hadn't seen in 10 years.
Last night was step one on a magical journey.
We're back.
We play defense, and we're a problem.
We are Marquette.
Yeah, it was a fantastic win. And Shaka deserves most of the credit for drawing up the game plan to win it. I said that in this thread. But under the circumstances, I'm not ready to put it alongside wins against #1 Nova, or #2 UConn in MU's first BE game, or beating Notre Dame on a last-second three by Novak, or beating a top 10 Syracuse team in the Jake Thomas game, etc., as one of the greatest wins in the past three decades.
It's OK to be thrilled about last night's win without having to measure it up against, and force it to be better than, anything good that happened in the past.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on November 16, 2021, 07:00:23 AM
Regarding Kur, I think Illinois was a far better matchup for him than our first two opponents who were both undersized. Classic ineffective big man due to nobody to match up against.
Not saying he played well in first two games at all but he was in a better situation to do his thing last night.
Very good point. I think as we get closer to league play he will become more useful. Last night really showed how good he can be when he's staying home as a rim protector. I think he struggles when he's drawn further from the hoop.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on November 16, 2021, 08:30:47 AM
This is pretty much exactly what I was thinking. Well said. Super happy Wojo is gone. Even more happy Shaka is here. Go Warriors!
Nailed it
Quote from: Pakuni on November 16, 2021, 08:33:26 AM
Yeah, it was a fantastic win. And Shaka deserves most of the credit for drawing up the game plan to win it. I said that in this thread. But under the circumstances, I'm not ready to put it alongside wins against #1 Nova, or #2 UConn in MU's first BE game, or beating Notre Dame on a last-second three by Novak, or beating a top 10 Syracuse team in the Jake Thomas game, etc., as one of the greatest wins in the past three decades.
It's OK to be thrilled about last night's win without having to measure it up against, and force it to be better than, anything good that happened in the past.
Also nailed it
What an incredible game. This is truly a testament to the mentality that Shaka has instilled from day one. There were multiple points in the game last night where MU had their backs against the wall and they never quit. It shows what a tenacious defensive attitude can do. Even though there were scoring droughts, the intensity on the defensive end never relented and eventually led to easier baskets, thusly closing the gap which was approaching double digits in the second half.
Awesome individual performances which show the talent level at the top of this roster. Kolek, Lewis and Morsell are big time players, but the game was won with excellent roster management. The freshmen and Oso all played big time minutes spelling starters. Kur was everything Shaka wanted him to be last night. A human wall at the basket allowing for super high intensity pressing higher up the floor.
An absolute perfect game plan and huge in game adjustments to slow down U of I during their runs.
A great night. A great win. I am going to enjoy it and not get into an argument comparing wins.
Watching the game this morning, we definitely got some home cooking calls. But aggressive home teams seem to get a lot of 50-50 calls. And the team played their butts off and earned them.
Quote from: panda on November 16, 2021, 08:53:49 AM
What an incredible game. This is truly a testament to the mentality that Shaka has instilled from day one. There were multiple points in the game last night where MU had their backs against the wall and they never quit. It shows what a tenacious defensive attitude can do. Even though there were scoring droughts, the intensity on the defensive end never relented and eventually led to easier baskets, thusly closing the gap which was approaching double digits in the second half.
Awesome individual performances which show the talent level at the top of this roster. Kolek, Lewis and Morsell are big time players, but the game was won with excellent roster management. The freshmen and Oso all played big time minutes spelling starters. Kur was everything Shaka wanted him to be last night. A human wall at the basket allowing for super high intensity pressing higher up the floor.
An absolute perfect game plan and huge in game adjustments to slow down U of I during their runs.
You found the words that describe my take on the game better than I could have on my own. The entire mindset that Shaka has instilled is the foundation upon which Marquette will find success. It is about much more than recruiting, game planning, and innate talent. I have to confess that I was losing hope when we fell behind by 12 points late in the game and when the FTs were missed.
The return of the MU brand may sound dramatic but I felt the same way. This game felt way different than anything I've seen during the Wojo era.
It was the way we won the game. Tough, hard-nosed defense. Scrappy plays. Snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. Over the last 7 years I watched our defensive possessions with despair, anticipating the inevitable open shot. Last night I was excited to see what kind of tough shot or turnover we would force.
High powered offense and chucking 3s are fun if you're winning. AWFUL if you're losing. It's more fun to win this way, and it's a way that will keep us in games and not shoot us out of them.
Brothers and Sisters:
I'm as big a Marquette loyalist as anyone in here. But what will be important isn't that we beat Illinois. Every blind pig finds an acorn on in awhile. What I hope is is the first step in Marquette being F-E-A-R-E-D again.
We won big games with Wojo. No doubt. But we weren't feared. People knew if they double or triple teamed Markus, we wouldn't make 'em pay. Nobody played defense worth a damn. Theo got clobbered inside because our perimeter defense was so bad and fouled his way out of way too many games.
My view is this team soon will be feared. The Illinois turnover number is telling. We start hitting 35 percent-plus of our threes and we will be kicking ass.
MAKE MARQUETTE FEARED AGAIN!!!!!!!!
I think Phil Bush mentioned it on the Anonymous Eagle live stream last night, but what stood out about last night was that it felt like what happened to us so many times over the years. The end of the 2019 season in particular, when we had late leads against Nova, Creighton, Seton Hall, and Georgetown in consecutive games and at the end, the defenses locked us up and they hit clutch shots. It felt like we were never able to do that to other teams. Suddenly last night, we were the team stringing together late stops and gutting out points on tough possessions. It was refreshing.
The last ending I can think of that compares to last night, a huge steal late leading to a game winner, is Jerel against USF.
Quote from: tower912 on November 16, 2021, 09:05:13 AM
A great night. A great win. I am going to enjoy it and not get into an argument comparing wins.
Watching the game this morning, we definitely got some home cooking calls. But aggressive home teams seem to get a lot of 50-50 calls. And the team played their butts off and earned them.
Whatever the reasons, we have been on the short end of that stick more times than I can remember. It was great seeing us come out on top!
People's dislike of Wojo simply clouds their memories.
If this had been a Wojo led team, many would have bemoaned the fact that we allowed U of I to rebound almost 50% of their misses, can't shoot from the outside and can't hit key FT's down the stretch. As well, would be quick to point out that they were playing without a pre-season AA.
Just enjoy the win and enjoy it within the context that it was a wonderful win and points to positive things moving forward.
Quote from: The Lens on November 16, 2021, 08:06:03 AM
82, you're right. 10 years is too much, don't mean to wash away Buzz's success.
But the last 7 years were done some other way. It never felt ours. We were borrowing some other culture and trying to rewrite who we were. Tonight we announced We Are Back, We Play Defense, We Are a Problem and We Are MARQUETTE.
This is really weird $hit. Like, super fuking weird $hit.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 16, 2021, 09:56:20 AM
Suddenly last night, we were the team stringing together late stops and gutting out points on tough possessions. It was refreshing.
You got that right.
In light of the rebounding in that game, it was absolutely fantastic -- some might say "refreshing" -- to see them get key defensive rebounds late in the game and push the ball down the court.
Confession time: I'd be lying if I didn't admit that once or twice last night I yelled, "would someone just grab the f'ing ball" at the TV after an Illini rebound. Seven of MU's 23 defensive rebounds came in the last five minutes of the game (and 3/4 of KK's). As frustrating as the rebounding disparity was, it was nice to see them grab more rebounds down the stretch. Fantastic.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on November 16, 2021, 10:41:03 AM
You got that right.
In light of the rebounding in that game, it was absolutely fantastic -- some might say "refreshing" -- to see them get key defensive rebounds late in the game and push the ball down the court.
Confession time: I'd be lying if I didn't admit that once or twice last night I yelled, "would someone just grab the f'ing ball" at the TV after an Illini rebound. Seven of MU's 23 defensive rebounds came in the last five minutes of the game (and 3/4 of KK's). As frustrating as the rebounding disparity was, it was nice to see them grab more rebounds down the stretch. Fantastic.
With a scramble type defense that Shaka employs, it'll always be somewhat challenging to win rebounding battles. The turnovers forced mitigate losing on the rebounding side of things.
As the program builds, I'd expect to see the Larry Sanders VCU type guy who's super long/athletic and can rebound even when out of position.
Quote from: panda on November 16, 2021, 11:00:57 AM
As the program builds, I'd expect to see the Larry Sanders VCU type guy who's super long/athletic and can rebound even when out of position.
I think we see the prototype with Kuath. He's not a rebounding maniac, but he's grabbed multiple boards and made multiple blocks from out of the play, out of position cause he's long and athletic. He's really fun. And a more polished version of him is super exciting to think about.
Quote from: tower912 on November 16, 2021, 09:59:46 AM
The last ending I can think of that compares to last night, a huge steal late leading to a game winner, is Jerel against USF.
As far as the events, I agree, but from a feeling perspective, it did have some 2017 'Nova vibes in how we finally stymied their offense at the end, got the points in the last few seconds to go ahead, and held on in their final possession.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 16, 2021, 05:57:16 AM
The general guidance is if you're without a player, it doesn't hurt you. So Illinois might get a pass for the loss. But it isn't viewed differently for the team that wins, so at the end of the year for us, this is a win over #XX Illinois.
While it seems contradictory to count it for one team and not the other, it's simply a quantity thing. Let's say Kofi misses 5 games later in the year and Illinois goes 1-4 in that stretch but is 26-8 on Selection Sunday. It's not that tough to say "they were 23-3 with him and 3-5 without, so we'll not hold the 5 against them as much" but recalibrating for those 5 teams that got the win, particularly when there are going to be dozens of players that miss games for top-100 teams, it's just too much when you're trying to build a bracket in a week.
Thanks for the reply, makes sense.
Quote from: JWags85 on November 16, 2021, 11:06:55 AM
I think we see the prototype with Kuath. He's not a rebounding maniac, but he's grabbed multiple boards and made multiple blocks from out of the play, out of position cause he's long and athletic. He's really fun. And a more polished version of him is super exciting to think about.
It seems Kuath is really good at not only blocking the shot, but also helping MU keep possession. He would either keep it in play for our guy or get it off the backboard.
I remember the Illinois guy volleyball spiking one out of bounds and I was like "cool, but at least we keep the ball."
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 16, 2021, 11:08:50 AM
As far as the events, I agree, but from a feeling perspective, it did have some 2017 'Nova vibes in how we finally stymied their offense at the end, got the points in the last few seconds to go ahead, and held on in their final possession.
Both were awesome. I remember Villanova kept settling for 3's and missing them.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 16, 2021, 11:08:50 AM
As far as the events, I agree, but from a feeling perspective, it did have some 2017 'Nova vibes in how we finally stymied their offense at the end, got the points in the last few seconds to go ahead, and held on in their final possession.
I had very similar thoughts. When Justin had the ball on the sideline and was flying toward our offensive end, the feeling reminded me of when Sam got that final rebound vs Nova. We had to battle, battle, battle both games, and each time the reward was a satisfying, come-from-behind home win against a team most observers felt we had little chance to defeat.
Quote from: panda on November 16, 2021, 11:00:57 AM
With a scramble type defense that Shaka employs, it'll always be somewhat challenging to win rebounding battles. The turnovers forced mitigate losing on the rebounding side of things.
There is some truth to this, and it'll even more true when we face opponents who take lots of 3s because of the number of long rebounds.
However, there have been many, many, many occasions so far this season in which we had guys simply standing there, watching, not boxing out. There have been far too many occasions where a Marquette player just reached for the basketball without putting a body on an opponent. There was one in particular last night in which OMP was standing inside the FT line defending his guy at the elbow, the shot goes up, OMP turns around and watches the ball, and his guy flies in for the rebound.
It was poor fundamentals, and it's happened many times, and it has ruined otherwise excellent defensive possessions. Brian Butch pointed out similar situations several times in the UNH game where we simply didn't find a man and put a body on him. And Shaka, during one of his cuddles yesterday, pointed it out too.
It's a good thing that at the end of each game Marquette buckled down and got some of the rebounds we didn't get earlier, but there's no excuse for waiting until the end to do it. Rebounding is about hard work and want-to, and Shaka told his guys exactly that.
There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON Marquette should ever get outrebounded by the likes of SIUE and UNH. There is no reason that Illinois, playing without its star big man, should beat us 50-30 on the boards. No reason at all. None.
For me, poor rebounding has really been the only big disappointment about the season so far, and we need to clean it up.
Quote from: Goose on November 16, 2021, 08:05:58 AM
MU82
I said many times that Wojo's best season was fool's gold and I still believe that. Yes, they won big games and I was very happy, but never did I think he was turning the corner with the program. I was very optimistic going into this season simply off Shaka and his system. I think MU turned the corner as a program the day Shaka was hired. Again, I never felt that Wojo's program was going anywhere. Not all big wins are equal, and IMO, last night was different. Everyone knows that we do not have top talent at the moment, but most now know this program is going to play tough on every possession.
And nowhere did I say otherwise.
Our fellow Scooper basically said the previous 10 years, which included Buzz's Elite Eight, offered no reasons for smiles similar to the ones he saw yesterday. That's just silly. Thankfully, he has at least tried to modify that stance.
I'm glad we have a better coach, and I look forward to seeing if he and his system can deliver us to the promised land. Mostly, I look forward to enjoying the ride, which some folks seem incapable of doing because they are so locked in on either the past or the hoped-for destination.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on November 16, 2021, 08:16:49 AM
No one said no smiles. We said different smiles. Nice strawman, though.
It is sad that you feel a need to frame everything within the context of what wasn't done in previous years, that you are so obsessed with one man's shortcomings that you're incapable of enjoying a great game/result like last night's in and of itself. I kinda feel sorry for you, just as I felt for you last season when you were among the handful of people actively rooting for our alma mater to lose games. It's a heck of a way to go through life.
Quote from: MU82 on November 16, 2021, 11:30:42 AM
There is some truth to this, and it'll even more true when we face opponents who take lots of 3s because of the number of long rebounds.
However, there have been many, many, many occasions so far this season in which we had guys simply standing there, watching, not boxing out. There have been far too many occasions where a Marquette player just reached for the basketball without putting a body on an opponent. There was one in particular last night in which OMP was standing inside the FT line defending his guy at the elbow, the shot goes up, OMP turns around and watches the ball, and his guy flies in for the rebound.
It was poor fundamentals, and it's happened many times, and it has ruined otherwise excellent defensive possessions. Brian Butch pointed out similar situations several times in the UNH game where we simply didn't find a man and put a body on him. And Shaka, during one of his cuddles yesterday, pointed it out too.
It's a good thing that at the end of each game Marquette buckled down and got some of the rebounds we didn't get earlier, but there's no excuse for waiting until the end to do it. Rebounding is about hard work and want-to, and Shaka told his guys exactly that.
There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON Marquette should ever get outrebounded by the likes of SIUE and UNH. There is no reason that Illinois, playing without its star big man, should beat us 50-30 on the boards. No reason at all. None.
For me, poor rebounding has really been the only big disappointment about the season so far, and we need to clean it up.
Shaka's cuddling is getting a lot of hype so far this year
Quote from: MU82 on November 16, 2021, 11:22:15 AM
I had very similar thoughts. When Justin had the ball on the sideline and was flying toward our offensive end, the feeling reminded me of when Sam got that final rebound vs Nova. We had to battle, battle, battle both games, and each time the reward was a satisfying, come-from-behind home win against a team most observers felt we had little chance to defeat.
I felt like Villanova just missed so many wide open shots. I remember the camera panned to Jay Wright towards the end of the game and he was just leaning against the scorers table, hands in pockets with a very frustrated smirk on his face knowing sometimes your guys just can't make anything and the other team can't miss.
Last night felt a lot more like MU imposed their will against U of I, turning them over a ton.
Quote from: JWags85 on November 16, 2021, 11:06:55 AM
I think we see the prototype with Kuath. He's not a rebounding maniac, but he's grabbed multiple boards and made multiple blocks from out of the play, out of position cause he's long and athletic. He's really fun. And a more polished version of him is super exciting to think about.
I love Kuath and the OU fans loved him too. He's going to have several big time poster lob dunks this year. He's a skilled shot blocker too. Does it very well with the correct hand/footwork not to foul.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on November 16, 2021, 11:46:02 AM
Shaka's cuddling is getting a lot of hype so far this year
That's cuz he's just so darn cuddly.
Quote from: panda on November 16, 2021, 11:46:16 AM
I felt like Villanova just missed so many wide open shots. I remember the camera panned to Jay Wright towards the end of the game and he was just leaning against the scorers table, hands in pockets with a very frustrated smirk on his face knowing sometimes your guys just can't make anything and the other team can't miss.
Last night felt a lot more like MU imposed their will against U of I, turning them over a ton.
What I said was that the happy feeling I had right at the end of both was similar.
The games were different, yes. If we want to point out little (and not so little) differences, Nova had its full roster, unlike Illinois that had to go without its All-American center. I mean, we can debate which was the "better" win all day.
What I'm saying is both were great to celebrate.
Quote from: MU82 on November 16, 2021, 11:30:42 AMThere is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON Marquette should ever get outrebounded by the likes of SIUE and UNH. There is no reason that Illinois, playing without its star big man, should beat us 50-30 on the boards. No reason at all. None.
This is easy to say, but New Hampshire has been top-10 nationally in defensive rebounding rate in 6 of the past 7 seasons. They are consistently one of the best pound-for-pound rebounding teams out there. It is not a stretch to say they are an elite rebounding team, in large part because their undersized wing forwards are great at fighting their way to the ball. If it was one year, it might be an outlier or an individual player propping them up, but they've been doing this for quite awhile and they're really good at it.
SIUE, no excuse, but UNH is actually really good at rebounding.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 16, 2021, 12:29:43 PM
This is easy to say, but New Hampshire has been top-10 nationally in defensive rebounding rate in 6 of the past 7 seasons. They are consistently one of the best pound-for-pound rebounding teams out there. It is not a stretch to say they are an elite rebounding team, in large part because their undersized wing forwards are great at fighting their way to the ball. If it was one year, it might be an outlier or an individual player propping them up, but they've been doing this for quite awhile and they're really good at it.
SIUE, no excuse, but UNH is actually really good at rebounding.
I understand.
It's even more important to block out vs. ball-watch when playing an elite-level rebounding team.
Illinois might be elite, too, even without their AA big. I don't know. But there's no reason to lose the boards 50-30 to them or anybody else. Find a man, put a body on him. It's middle-school stuff, and everybody, including Shaka, knows we need to clean it up.
Quote from: tower912 on November 16, 2021, 09:59:46 AM
The last ending I can think of that compares to last night, a huge steal late leading to a game winner, is Jerel against USF.
DJO forced a tie with a late steal and layup vs UConn in 2011. Marquette won in OT.
I find it interesting that people are saying it's ok that we are being out rebounded but so much these first 3 games.
It's ok because the way their defense is created to force steals.
There is no way that getting out rebounded by 20 is ok because that's the way the D is created.
If Illinois puts back one more of those offensive rebounds we are singing a different tune today. And then all of our steals would have been for a loss.
You're not wrong. I also think that it is nearly unanimous that it must be improved.
Quote from: fjm on November 16, 2021, 02:42:29 PM
I find it interesting that people are saying it's ok that we are being out rebounded but so much these first 3 games.
I would find that interesting too...but I haven't seen anyone say that. Not even close. I saw panda say that our style of defense makes getting into position to rebound more challenging and I saw brew say that UNH is actually a pretty solid rebounding team. That's about as close as I've seen anyone come to saying "it's ok that we are being out rebounded [by] so much these first 3 games" -- which is to say that absolutely nobody has come even close to saying that it's ok that we're being out-rebounded by some much. In fact, complaints/concerns about rebounding have been nearly unanimous.
Great thread
Fantastic takes
Insightful dialogue
Wealth of information
MU scoop at its finest
Refreshing
Quote from: DoctorV on November 16, 2021, 03:08:16 PM
Great thread
Fantastic takes
Insightful dialogue
Wealth of information
MU scoop at its finest
Refreshing
Boring ;D
Quote from: StillAWarrior on November 16, 2021, 10:41:03 AMConfession time: I'd be lying if I didn't admit that once or twice last night I yelled, "would someone just grab the f'ing ball" at the TV after an Illini rebound. Seven of MU's 23 defensive rebounds came in the last five minutes of the game (and 3/4 of KK's). As frustrating as the rebounding disparity was, it was nice to see them grab more rebounds down the stretch. Fantastic.
If only someone could grab the easy rebounds...
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 17, 2021, 07:15:11 AM
If only someone could grab the easy rebounds...
Henry still has three years of eligibility, unacceptable that Shaka hasn't reached out yet
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 17, 2021, 07:38:47 AM
Henry still has three years of eligibility, unexceptable that Shaka hasn't reached out yet
I just hope you haven't triggered a pedantic rant from Bee Jay telling you how wrong you are about eligibility.
Quote from: TSmith34 on November 17, 2021, 10:26:48 AM
I just hope you haven't triggered a pedantic rant from Bee Jay telling you how wrong you are about eligibility.
I think my spelling of unacceptable is much more rant worthy, yeesh.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 17, 2021, 10:29:49 AM
I think my spelling of unacceptable is much more rant worthy, yeesh.
Yeah, TAMU, that really was unnaxepptuhbul.
Butt Doc Dribble woulda bin prouda ya.
Quote from: TSmith34 on November 17, 2021, 10:26:48 AM
I just hope you haven't triggered a pedantic rant from Bee Jay telling you how wrong you are about eligibility.
Trust me he won't
Quote from: TSmith34 on November 17, 2021, 10:26:48 AM
I just hope you haven't triggered a pedantic rant from Bee Jay telling you how wrong you are about eligibility.
Distract him with Crystal Bowl picks.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on November 16, 2021, 10:09:54 AM
This is really weird $hit. Like, super fuking weird $hit.
What's up buddy? How you doing?
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on November 19, 2021, 06:32:37 PM
Um, fine.
What are the HS coaches in Jersey saying about Shaka?
I couldn't of been more pleased on how we played in that scenario, we got down 14 and came back something not very easy when your top scorer is ice cold and you are a first priority defensive team.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on November 19, 2021, 08:20:10 PM
What are the HS coaches in Jersey saying about Shaka?
Plays a style they only dream of being able to implement. Steals and blocks get any coach worth their salt orgasmic. Have never heard a bad judgement laid on him.
Is the woof because your looking at your ugly dog wife
Quote from: Keithtisbarf on December 17, 2021, 09:57:15 PM
Is the woof because your looking at your ugly dog wife
This is an interesting thread bump...but then I looked at you post history...
Quote from: Keithtisbarf on June 14, 2021, 02:35:09 AM
No you don't you lying no job having loser
Quote from: Keithtisbarf on January 24, 2021, 09:27:14 PM
But your wife is do ugly no one can look
At her
And I can't quote any of these three because you got the thread locked: https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=61283.msg1301137#msg1301137
What exactly is your beef with Bad_Reporter?