This may provide MU a path to a winning record if we send in some typhoid Mary's to other schools!
https://www.ctinsider.com/uconn/amp/Big-East-basketball-s-new-COVID-policy-Teams-16592764.php
This is a poorly thought out policy. While I applaud the effort to get everyone vaccinated, there are a number of things that could happen due to breakthrough cases or a new variant.
If someone takes a COVID "L" to a DePaul or Georgetown, that goes on their resume. That could impact seeding for a team like Villanova or NCAA inclusion for a Big East bubble team. That could very realistically cost the league money.
If two teams both take losses in the same game, you are again attaching that to both their resumes. What if two Big East teams are on the bubble, needing that one more win to get in, but now they both get losses? Instead of two bubble teams being able to battle for a bid, both could be left out.
What about fully vaccinated teams having breakthroughs or variant cases? Shouldn't responsibly getting your entire team vaccinated prevent you from taking a forfeit? If the staff and players have taken all reasonable measures within their control to be safe and still get unfortunate positive cases, it seems unjust (maybe even NCAA-like) to punish them.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 05, 2021, 12:47:52 PM
This is a poorly thought out policy. While I applaud the effort to get everyone vaccinated, there are a number of things that could happen due to breakthrough cases or a new variant.
If someone takes a COVID "L" to a DePaul or Georgetown, that goes on their resume. That could impact seeding for a team like Villanova or NCAA inclusion for a Big East bubble team. That could very realistically cost the league money.
If two teams both take losses in the same game, you are again attaching that to both their resumes. What if two Big East teams are on the bubble, needing that one more win to get in, but now they both get losses? Instead of two bubble teams being able to battle for a bid, both could be left out.
What about fully vaccinated teams having breakthroughs or variant cases? Shouldn't responsibly getting your entire team vaccinated prevent you from taking a forfeit? If the staff and players have taken all reasonable measures within their control to be safe and still get unfortunate positive cases, it seems unjust (maybe even NCAA-like) to punish them.
You're overthinking it. You only need 5 players to field a team. Between scholarship players and walk-ons all games will be played. If so many are sick/hurt that a team can't be fielded, it will be a forfeit - just as it would have before covid.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 05, 2021, 01:05:50 PM
You're overthinking it. You only need 5 players to field a team. Between scholarship players and walk-ons all games will be played. If so many are sick/hurt that a team can't be fielded, it will be a forfeit - just as it would have before covid.
Yep...plus the fact that the BE policy is reportedly similar to those of other major conferences. Assuming that's true and there really are 'COVID cancellations' in college hoops this year, the BE might just as likely benefit from two bubble teams from another conference getting losses.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 05, 2021, 02:34:54 PM
Yep...plus the fact that the BE policy is reportedly similar to those of other major conferences. Assuming that's true and there really are 'COVID cancellations' in college hoops this year, the BE might just as likely benefit from two bubble teams from another conference getting losses.
If so, all the more reason to just wipe the game off the schedule and don't have it count against your own bubble teams. And they should add an exception for teams that are 100% vaccinated.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 05, 2021, 02:47:01 PM
If so, all the more reason to just wipe the game off the schedule and don't have it count against your own bubble teams. And they should add an exception for teams that are 100% vaccinated.
It sounds good in theory, but they are just trying to make it easier for everyone involved.
I think it's not a particularly smart policy. It's not getting a huge amount of coverage but Germany is getting a major resurgence in COVID cases and deaths/hospitalizations. They are also close to 70% fully vaccinated. We don't know what can happen in the winter months, and unfortunately since the beginning there's been this absurd message that we can eradicate COVID. Newsflash: we can't. It's endemic and this narrative is stupid.
Now, I'm very pro vax. The fact that 95+% of hospitalizations and deaths are from unvaxed people should be eye opening for everyone, but science constantly changes. What I'm saying is there could be quite a few positive cases from BEast players that are vaccinated and we could look more like Germany a month from now. We simply do not know what can happen in the near future other than at this moment, the likelihood of having a serious case of COVID decreases exponentially if you are vaccinated.
When was the last time any policy was implemented anywhere that everyone liked? That would be never.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 05, 2021, 02:47:01 PM
If so, all the more reason to just wipe the game off the schedule and don't have it count against your own bubble teams. And they should add an exception for teams that are 100% vaccinated.
Agreed, but I doubt the selection committee would factor in a game that was forfeited due to this reason. You never know with the NCAA though.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 05, 2021, 03:06:57 PM
I think it's not a particularly smart policy.
Muggs, you too are thinking too hard about this. Last year teams cancelled games anytime there was a single covid positive on the team (no vaccines). If this policy was in place last year, I bet every game would have been played.
Last year: "schools should consider placing the entire group under quarantine for 14 days" if one person in Tier 1 tests positive.
This year: if a team can't field enough players to play in a game on its originally intended date during the league season, the game will go down as a forfeit and a loss on that team's conference record
5 players will always be available.
Quote from: Gryphon on November 05, 2021, 04:46:12 PM
When was the last time any policy was implemented anywhere that everyone liked? That would be never.
Open bar at my wedding. Loved by all.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 05, 2021, 04:55:11 PM
Muggs, you too are thinking too hard about this. Last year teams cancelled games anytime there was a single covid positive on the team (no vaccines). If this policy was in place last year, I bet every game would have been played.
Last year: "schools should consider placing the entire group under quarantine for 14 days" if one person in Tier 1 tests positive.
This year: if a team can't field enough players to play in a game on its originally intended date during the league season, the game will go down as a forfeit and a loss on that team's conference record
5 players will always be available.
No doubt that last year's policy was dumber. All I'm saying is with campuses being open now, even with vaccinated students, you can get an outbreak. Hopefully the new Pfizer pill helps.
Quote from: erubiel on November 05, 2021, 05:07:13 PM
Open bar at my wedding. Loved by all.
Half day Fridays year round at my work.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 05, 2021, 09:09:48 AM
This may provide MU a path to a winning record if we send in some typhoid Mary's to other schools!
https://www.ctinsider.com/uconn/amp/Big-East-basketball-s-new-COVID-policy-Teams-16592764.php
Welcome to new Marquette men's basketball ambassador, Aaron Rodgers!!
Crean's teams always had "the flu" when they lost games they should have won.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 05, 2021, 12:47:52 PM
This is a poorly thought out policy. While I applaud the effort to get everyone vaccinated, there are a number of things that could happen due to breakthrough cases or a new variant.
If someone takes a COVID "L" to a DePaul or Georgetown, that goes on their resume. That could impact seeding for a team like Villanova or NCAA inclusion for a Big East bubble team. That could very realistically cost the league money.
If two teams both take losses in the same game, you are again attaching that to both their resumes. What if two Big East teams are on the bubble, needing that one more win to get in, but now they both get losses? Instead of two bubble teams being able to battle for a bid, both could be left out.
What about fully vaccinated teams having breakthroughs or variant cases? Shouldn't responsibly getting your entire team vaccinated prevent you from taking a forfeit? If the staff and players have taken all reasonable measures within their control to be safe and still get unfortunate positive cases, it seems unjust (maybe even NCAA-like) to punish them.
fully agree here-the "L" at the end of the season wouldn't be a very accurate reflection come selection sunday unless that would be taken under advisement which i believe it would.
as brew points out, even "fully vaccinated" doesn't guarantee perfect health. besides, if everyone is vaccinated, as i'm assuming will be the case, what's the worry? as many are saying, the vaccine, if not preventative, should lower the contagiousness and subsequently tame the virility of the illness...play ball
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on November 05, 2021, 10:59:20 PM
Crean's teams always had "the flu" when they lost games they should have won.
And Wojo's were "young," or "tired," or...something.
The masses continue to think that the vaccinated can't be infected with/transmit the virus.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on November 06, 2021, 07:54:28 AM
And Wojo's were "young," or "tired," or...something.
The masses continue to think that the vaccinated can't be infected with/transmit the virus.
Yes they can, but way less likely plus basically prevents stronger virus mutations which can take us to square 1. It is all about the us / we, not the you and me, Jesuits....
I think rules like this will just promote schools to be very lax on testing.
I know of some programs already that no longer test athletes with "flu-like symptoms" unless they say the magic words around COVID. It is done intentionally to avoid having athletes have to sit out due to breakthrough infections, and protocols for return to performance.
I doubt that a Covid forfeit loss to DePaul will cause a team to lose an NCAA bid. The committee will take that into consideration. However, a Covid forfeit loss to a top team could hurt, because it takes away a chance for a big win.
Quote from: forgetful on November 06, 2021, 08:28:44 AM
I think rules like this will just promote schools to be very lax on testing.
I know of some programs already that no longer test athletes with "flu-like symptoms" unless they say the magic words around COVID. It is done intentionally to avoid having athletes have to sit out due to breakthrough infections, and protocols for return to performance.
..and for good reason. A positive COVID test is just that and for most they are asymptomatic. For the few that exhibit flu like symptoms test them and treat them as you would any other athlete who has the flu and for the very very few who exhibit more severe illness there are treatments: steroids, monoclonal antibodies and soon the Pfizer pill and Merck pill which is already approved in the UK. To quarantine the entire team for an athlete that tests positive is an over reaction especially if they have all been vaccinated and can now be treated. I would expect very very few breakthrough infections among college athletes that exhibit severe illness.
https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/31275391/study-shows-less-1-covid-infected-college-athletes-developed-heart-issues
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 06, 2021, 09:53:48 AM
To quarantine the entire team for an athlete that tests positive is an over reaction
But that
is NOT what they are doing. They are saying 5 players need to be healthy. Read the policy again.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 06, 2021, 11:04:25 AM
But that is NOT what they are doing. They are saying 5 players need to be healthy. Read the policy again.
If an entire team is vaccinated, they should not be assigned a forfeit if they have simultaneous breakthrough cases, particularly if there ends up being a new variant that takes time getting across the country (say SJU forfeiting to Creighton because NYC gets hit before Omaha). Just cancel the game and have it a no contest like last year. No need for them to punish teams that are trying to do the right thing.
That's like the NCAA giving an unprecedented punishment to Oklahoma State after they went out of their way to be transparent. The Big East should never look to the NCAA's punishment standards as an example of how they WANT to conduct business.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 06, 2021, 11:08:46 AM
If an entire team is vaccinated, they should not be assigned a forfeit if they have simultaneous breakthrough cases, particularly if there ends up being a new variant that takes time getting across the country (say SJU forfeiting to Creighton because NYC gets hit before Omaha). Just cancel the game and have it a no contest like last year. No need for them to punish teams that are trying to do the right thing.
That's like the NCAA giving an unprecedented punishment to Oklahoma State after they went out of their way to be transparent. The Big East should never look to the NCAA's punishment standards as an example of how they WANT to conduct business.
If the entire team gets food poisoning, do they get to reschedule the game? Or is it a forfeit? I honestly don't know the answer. The same rules should be applied.
edit: And brew - last thing I'll say (again) on the topic, no games will be cancelled because of this policy. I'll wager a pint of your favorite beverage on it!
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 06, 2021, 11:18:32 AM
If the entire team gets food poisoning, do they get to reschedule the game? Or is it a forfeit? I honestly don't know the answer. The same rules should be applied.
edit: And brew - last thing I'll say (again) on the topic, no games will be cancelled because of this policy. I'll wager a pint of your favorite beverage on it!
Your last point is exactly right. I'd bet no BE basketball games, mens or womens, result in a forfeit this year. This is a big nothing burger.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 06, 2021, 11:04:25 AM
But that is NOT what they are doing. They are saying 5 players need to be healthy. Read the policy again.
I was not commenting on the policy. I was commenting on forgetful's take that testing will be essentially not done. I think the policy is pragmatic and reasonable. Why test the players if they have no symptoms? If a team mate exhibits flu-like symptoms quarantine that one player until he recovers, end of story.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 06, 2021, 11:42:51 AM
I was not commenting on the policy. I was commenting on forgetful's take that testing will be essentially not done. I think the policy is pragmatic and reasonable. Why test the players if they have no symptoms? If a team mate exhibits flu-like symptoms quarantine that one player until he recovers, end of story.
They should only test VACCINATED players if they are symptomatic. But you still have to regularly test unvaccinated players. Close contacts should only be tested if symptomatic, but unvaccinated close contacts need to go into quarantine.
These are the NCAA regulations.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 06, 2021, 12:09:26 PM
They should only test VACCINATED players if they are symptomatic. But you still have to regularly test unvaccinated players. Close contacts should only be tested if symptomatic, but unvaccinated close contacts need to go into quarantine.
These are the NCAA regulations.
There are unvaccinated athletes? Did not know that.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 06, 2021, 03:11:43 PM
There are unvaccinated athletes? Did not know that.
Yes. Vaccination isn't required.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 06, 2021, 03:17:05 PM
Yes. Vaccination isn't required.
I thought MU/ Big East schools have a vaccine requirement. They would allow an unvaccinated player from a visiting school to play?
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 06, 2021, 03:45:03 PM
I thought MU/ Big East schools have a vaccine requirement.
They do. Sorry. But there are exemptions allowed so it isn't a guaranty that everyone actually is vaccinated.
I hope all student athletes are allowed to get the booster as I consider them front line.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 06, 2021, 08:09:28 PM
I hope all student athletes are allowed to get the booster as I consider them front line.
Yes sir. Especially out in the public like they are at charity events etc. Got my booster today. Mixed and matched Pfizer and Moderna. As soon as my own kids are eligible for their boosters, they'll be first in line.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 06, 2021, 11:18:32 AM
edit: And brew - last thing I'll say (again) on the topic, no games will be cancelled because of this policy. I'll wager a pint of your favorite beverage on it!
Just so we're tracking, unless a policy change happens in the next few hours, I owe Brew a beverage (he never replied, but still, I was pretty confident, pre-Omi)
Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 20, 2021, 08:35:13 PM
Just so we're tracking, unless a policy change happens in the next few hours, I owe Brew a beverage (he never replied, but still, I was pretty confident, pre-Omi)
Omicron has changed things awfully fast. 1% of US cases two weeks ago; 70% today. Welcome to last Christmas, folks!
NHL about to "pause the season." Can the rest of sports, including BE hoops, be far behind?
Quote from: BLM on November 06, 2021, 11:30:06 AM
Your last point is exactly right. I'd bet no BE basketball games, mens or womens, result in a forfeit this year. This is a big nothing burger.
You were saying...
DePaul's AD is not happy and asking for a change in policy:
https://twitter.com/BlueDemonsAD/status/1473131130983489539
Yeah, like a bad rerun nobody wants to see. Hopefully covids end-game, but I've been overly optimistic about that a few times before.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on December 20, 2021, 11:50:24 PM
You were saying...
DePaul's AD is not happy and asking for a change in policy:
https://twitter.com/BlueDemonsAD/status/1473131130983489539
That's the point billy-boy. I bumped this because 90-ish (or more) percent of us thought we could be "done with this". Turns out, we were wrong. And I know know Nov 6 doesn't seem like a long time ago, but Covid doesn't care.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 20, 2021, 08:35:13 PM
Just so we're tracking, unless a policy change happens in the next few hours, I owe Brew a beverage (he never replied, but still, I was pretty confident, pre-Omi)
I didn't see it getting this bad again this fast, but it's why I didn't like the policy from the start. We essentially have a break through variant. Though the irony of the first (SHU/SJU) cancellation is that the "winners" are the team that actually loses because St John's needs those resume building opportunities more than Seton Hall. Also interesting they are assigning losses before the scheduled game time passes; DePaul already has a loss Thursday according to the official Big East website.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 20, 2021, 10:37:32 PM
Omicron has changed things awfully fast. 1% of US cases two weeks ago; 70% today. Welcome to last Christmas, folks!
We had only 2% positivity rate for almost 3 months. Within a week of first Omicron case we're up to 13%.
It's so very DePaul-like to forfeit the game quicker than Seton Hall. Does Seton Hall even have enough players eligible?
This policy sucks. It penalizes both teams, really, and it penalizes people who aren't doing anything wrong.
The ACC has the same policy. Its ADs are meeting tomorrow and there is hope that they will revise their policy. The Big East needs to do the same, because what we have is ridiculous and unfair.
Quote from: MU82 on December 21, 2021, 07:12:12 AM
This policy sucks. It penalizes both teams, really, and it penalizes people who aren't doing anything wrong.
The ACC has the same policy. Its ADs are meeting tomorrow and there is hope that they will revise their policy. The Big East needs to do the same, because what we have is ridiculous and unfair.
Yep - the policy needs to be revised with present day covid precautions in mind. Not last years precautions.
Quote from: MU82 on December 21, 2021, 07:12:12 AM
This policy sucks. It penalizes both teams, really, and it penalizes people who aren't doing anything wrong.
The ACC has the same policy. Its ADs are meeting tomorrow and there is hope that they will revise their policy. The Big East needs to do the same, because what we have is ridiculous and unfair.
The only 'good' thing about the policy is that it's just a league policy. The NCAA just doesn't count the game. The Big East is the one that counts it as an L.
Then the policy is even more nonsensical. Just have them be no-contests. Rescheduling them is going to be extremely difficult anyway.
Quote from: MU82 on December 20, 2021, 11:07:07 PM
NHL about to "pause the season." Can the rest of sports, including BE hoops, be far behind?
Nope. There will be significant positive tests for the foreseeable future. Unless they adopt a several times a day rapid test, and you can play with a negative test within hours of the game, I can't see the rest of the season taking place. We're looking at a complete s-show.
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 21, 2021, 11:21:53 AM
Nope. There will be significant positive tests for the foreseeable future. Unless they adopt a several times a day rapid test, and you can play with a negative test within hours of the game, I can't see the rest of the season taking place. We're looking at a complete s-show.
My guess is that they will go in the opposite direction, a la the NFL, and only test vaccinated players if they are symptomatic.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 21, 2021, 11:24:09 AM
My guess is that they will go in the opposite direction, a la the NFL, and only test vaccinated players if they are symptomatic.
My son plays D3 hoops and they only test the unvaccinated on game days. Those vaccinated do not get tested unless they are showing symptoms.
Plus most colleges are on break for extended period of time now. So the players will not be around the rest of the students. Not to mention if this Omicron keeps going at the rate it is then everyone will have had it over the next month or so with or without symptoms
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 21, 2021, 11:24:09 AM
My guess is that they will go in the opposite direction, a la the NFL, and only test vaccinated players if they are symptomatic.
Hopefully they do that.
Wed Gtown / PC game cancelled now too.
Some good information from this article:
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/xaviersports/2021/12/17/fully-vaccinated-heres-what-means-xavier-basketball/8946065002/ (https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/xaviersports/2021/12/17/fully-vaccinated-heres-what-means-xavier-basketball/8946065002/)
- Cancelled Big East games will count only for regular season standings and seeding for the conference championship tournament. For NCAA tournament seeding purposes, games will be designated no-contest on their team sheet and not considered.
- The Big East conference policy, in accordance with the NABC, is seven scholarship players available.
The Xavier program is 100% vaccinated. The article says they haven't been testing anyone unless they have potential symptoms. I believe this is a prudent approach.
Most vaccinated athletes that test positive either remain asymptomatic or have very minor symptoms. With the Bulls recent outbreak, they had 10 players test positive and only two wound up developing symptoms. Nikola Vucevic tested positive earlier in the season, and he was asymptomatic the whole time as well. This was from Billy Donovan's comments in an Athletic article.
If teams only test unvaccinated players or vaccinated ones showing symptoms, this should really limit the number of potential players that could be out of a given game at any time.
This is pretty much entirely contingent on teams having pretty high vaccination rates, though. Not sure what the story is with Seton Hall or DePaul.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 21, 2021, 12:21:38 PM
Wed Gtown / PC game cancelled now too.
You mean, Providence takes an L to Georgetown and is now 2-0 in conference.
They're the ones to beat!
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 06, 2021, 12:09:26 PM
They should only test VACCINATED players if they are symptomatic. But you still have to regularly test unvaccinated players. Close contacts should only be tested if symptomatic, but unvaccinated close contacts need to go into quarantine.
These are the NCAA regulations.
That policy might be good from a general public health standpoint, but if you are going to have the virus affecting wins and losses to the extent we've seen in the BE, it makes sense to test everyone on the team, as well as the associated staff. Those who have been vaccinated can still be carriers, and there is no difference in viral load between those vaccinated or unvaccinated. So vaccinated people can still be carriers, and therefore, spreaders. So for eligibility purposes, it makes sense to keep anyone who tests positive away from others.
Have we really determined that SHU had sufficient scholarship players available to play SJU? If so,
that was sleazy.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on December 21, 2021, 03:25:40 PM
Have we really determined that SHU had sufficient scholarship players available to play SJU? If so,
that was sleazy.
The official word is that they only had 6 scholarship players available.
BEAST now getting major national attention. And not much of it is positive.
At the local pub downtown MKE and pardon my interruption is ripping BEAST a new one.
Womp
Womp.
I know I know... F ESPN. But still it's not a good look
Quote from: fjm on December 21, 2021, 05:00:16 PM
BEAST now getting major national attention. And not much of it is positive.
At the local pub downtown MKE and pardon my interruption is ripping BEAST a new one.
Womp
Why? Because of covid cancelations?
Womp.
I know I know... F ESPN. But still it's not a good look
The policy will be moot soon. First the NHL, then other leagues/sports.
It's getting worse folks, not better...
Shaka confirms MU is fully vaccinated.
https://twitter.com/johnleuzzimu/status/1473517008637599747?s=21
Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 22, 2021, 01:03:50 AM
Shaka confirms MU is fully vaccinated.
https://twitter.com/johnleuzzimu/status/1473517008637599747?s=21
Good!
Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 21, 2021, 07:26:38 PM
The policy will be moot soon. First the NHL, then other leagues/sports.
It's getting worse folks, not better...
Well, the NBA commish already has said they're not gonna shut down the season at all, the NFL changed its Covid rules to stop testing asymptomatic, vaccinated players, and the ACC is meeting today to change its Covid rules.
Like you, I first thought that the dominoes would fall after the NHL decided to take a break, but now I'm much less sure about that. People in power are looking at omicron as highly contagious but extremely mild for vaccinated people, and it looks like they plan to treat it more like the flu. At least for now.
With a quarter of its teams in Canada, the NHL shutting down likely isn't a model for the NBA and college basketball. Canada has been been more aggressive about shut downs from the beginning.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 22, 2021, 08:47:35 AM
With a quarter of its teams in Canada, the NHL shutting down likely isn't a model for the NBA and college basketball. Canada has been been more aggressive about shut downs from the beginning.
Good point.
Quote from: fjm on December 21, 2021, 05:00:16 PM
BEAST now getting major national attention. And not much of it is positive.
At the local pub downtown MKE and pardon my interruption is ripping BEAST a new one.
Womp
Womp.
I know I know... F ESPN. But still it's not a good look
Fjm,
I have not been able to pay much attention to this particular point. What is it that they are ripping? The forfeit policy? Or are they ripping the health and safety protocols?
https://www.nj.com/setonhall/2021/12/big-east-eliminates-forfeits-paving-the-way-for-st-johns-seton-hall-and-other-games-to-be-rescheduled.html
We are no longer tied with Depaul.
Quote from: blue and gold on December 23, 2021, 11:22:22 AM
https://www.nj.com/setonhall/2021/12/big-east-eliminates-forfeits-paving-the-way-for-st-johns-seton-hall-and-other-games-to-be-rescheduled.html
Thank you.