MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 21, 2021, 03:58:48 PM
-
Apparently, Texas and Oklahoma have reached out to see if the SEC would be interested in them joining.
-
Kansas to the Big East?
-
Apparently, Texas and Oklahoma have reached out to see if the SEC would be interested in them joining.
I am not sure how this helps Texas or Oklahoma in Football. They would be going to a very difficult conference in the SEC. It would also be a downgrade in Basketball as the Big 12 has consistently been one of the Best.
Texas has their own network so the money shouldn't be an issue.
-
Kansas to the Big East?
Long been a pipe dream of mine.
-
I am not sure how this helps Texas or Oklahoma in Football. They would be going to a very difficult conference in the SEC. It would also be a downgrade in Basketball as the Big 12 has consistently been one of the Best.
(https://media.tenor.com/images/4229a4757274c51e4d73e1da0de89e94/tenor.gif)
Texas has their own network so the money shouldn't be an issue.
I don't think money has to be an issue for schools to want more of it.
Also, only half-jokingly, TU is pissed that TAMU has closed the gap on them in football. Recruiting against TAMU has been a lot harder now that TAMU can pitch being in the SEC and playing Bama, LSU, Auburn every season.
-
I also don't think the Longhorn Network has worked out like Texas thought. A jump to the SEC significantly increases their revenue and could more than make up for any LHN loss.
-
UT has not done well in their conference in Football for quite a while. I don't understand how jumping up to a Big Boy Football conference will help their cause.
Oklahoma pretty much dominates their conference, so not sure why they want to have to tussle with the SEC guys all year long.
Sometimes be careful what you wish for. Nebraska had a great life in the Big 12, was always in the National Conversation and then joined the Big Ten and is a lower tier team in almost every sport .
-
(https://media.tenor.com/images/4229a4757274c51e4d73e1da0de89e94/tenor.gif)
Also, only half-jokingly, TU is pissed that TAMU has closed the gap on them in football. Recruiting against TAMU has been a lot harder now that TAMU can pitch being in the SEC and playing Bama, LSU, Auburn every season.
You may be half-joking, but that was the very first thought that I had.
-
Sometimes be careful what you wish for. Nebraska had a great life in the Big 12, was always in the National Conversation and then joined the Big Ten and is a lower tier team in almost every sport .
Nebraska fell off as soon as Osborne left. They hadn't lost less than 3 games or finished in top 10 (or even Top 15) for a decade before they joined the Big 10. They had a charmed life in the Big 8 years before. They were no better in the post-Osborne Big 12 years than they were in the B10 during the Pelini years.
-
It takes 4 current SEC schools to block Texas and Oklahoma from joining. Mizzou and Texas A&M are no’s. So they just need two more schools to say no.
-
It takes 4 current SEC schools to block Texas and Oklahoma from joining. Mizzou and Texas A&M are no’s. So they just need two more schools to say no.
I wouldn't guarantee TAMU saying no.
-
UT has not done well in their conference in Football for quite a while. I don't understand how jumping up to a Big Boy Football conference will help their cause
Because the best players want to play in the SEC, not the B12. And their in state rival has been using that to steal a lot of local talent that TU used to have a monopoly on
Oh and more importantly, money. Nothing else matters
-
$urely thi$ i$n’t a $ure thing.
-
Wouldn’t having a ‘super conf’ be more beneficial in the NIL and hands off NCAA era.
-
Saw on Twitter that OU cannot leave without taking OK St per state legislature.
-
I wouldn't guarantee TAMU saying no.
TAMU AD said they want to be the only team from Texas in the SEC. Kirk Bohls from the Austin American Statesman confirmed in his reporting that both schools would be hard no's.
Things can always change with the right offer, but memories of how Texas treated the rest of the Big 12 run pretty long.
-
TAMU AD said they want to be the only team from Texas in the SEC. Kirk Bohls from the Austin American Statesman confirmed in his reporting that both schools would be hard no's.
Things can always change with the right offer, but memories of how Texas treated the rest of the Big 12 run pretty long.
Oh if it was only up to TAMU they would absolutely say no. It may not be up to TAMU
-
It takes 4 current SEC schools to block Texas and Oklahoma from joining. Mizzou and Texas A&M are no’s. So they just need two more schools to say no.
This isn’t leaking if it’s a no
-
Also, it’s been the wet dream of the Big 14 to add Texas, maybe Oklahoma if it had to. So, I’m a hard yes on this
-
Because the best players want to play in the SEC, not the B12. And their in state rival has been using that to steal a lot of local talent that TU used to have a monopoly on
Oh and more importantly, money. Nothing else matters
The TAMU play in the SEC Conference explanation works for the past decade, but what about the past 25 years? Texas has 3 Big 12 Football Titles in the past 25 years. That's 1 more than Nebraska who left in 2010.
$$$.
-
Kansas to the Big East?
Nah. Houston or Cincy, and BYU to the Big 12.
-
Because the best players want to play in the SEC, not the B12. And their in state rival has been using that to steal a lot of local talent that TU used to have a monopoly on
And a lot of the players who A&M doesn't get, go to other SEC schools. The SEC got a foothold into Texas, and that's been problematic for UT.
-
The TAMU play in the SEC Conference explanation works for the past decade, but what about the past 25 years? Texas has 3 Big 12 Football Titles in the past 25 years. That's 1 more than Nebraska who left in 2010.
$$$.
I didn't say anything about what they have done in the past. I was answering Herman's question about why Texas would think a move to the SEC would benefit them moving forward.
-
I don't think it's a bad idea for OK and Texas to pursue the move. Purely from a football perspective, the difference between those 2 and the rest of the league is substantial (revenue-wise).
The Big 12 becomes a 8-member league and there would be some attractive candidates to fill the void, particularly from the AAC (Memphis, Cincinnati, Tulsa, etc.) I'm sure North Dakota State would love the opportunity, too.
-
I don't think it's a bad idea for OK and Texas to pursue the move. Purely from a football perspective, the difference between those 2 and the rest of the league is substantial (revenue-wise).
The Big 12 becomes a 8-member league and there would be some attractive candidates to fill the void, particularly from the AAC (Memphis, Cincinnati, Tulsa, etc.) I'm sure North Dakota State would love the opportunity, too.
The more I think about it, the more I like it. SEC football is already one of the dumbest, wildest things in sports. This would ratchet things up x 1,000
-
The more I think about it, the more I like it. SEC football is already one of the dumbest, wildest things in sports. This would ratchet things up x 1,000
My wife was describing her first Gator game to a friend. She said she couldn't remember which team they played, but it was one of those cousin loving states. I told her, this is the SEC, they are all cousin loving states.... (It was Tennessee btw)
-
And a lot of the players who A&M doesn't get, go to other SEC schools. The SEC got a foothold into Texas, and that's been problematic for UT.
SEC got a foothold in Texas in no small part because of Hurricane Katrina. Tens of thousands of families from Louisiana and Mississippi, and especially New Orleans, moved to Texas after the storm, most settling in the Houston area.
FWIW, it's mostly just Alabama and LSU pulling top kids out of Texas. Other than, it's Oklahoma with a sprinkle of Ohio State. I don;t think Texas joining the SEC will change that much.
-
SEC got a foothold in Texas in no small part because of Hurricane Katrina. Tens of thousands of families from Louisiana and Mississippi, and especially New Orleans, moved to Texas after the storm, most settling in the Houston area.
FWIW, it's mostly just Alabama and LSU pulling top kids out of Texas. Other than, it's Oklahoma with a sprinkle of Ohio State. I don;t think Texas joining the SEC will change that much.
Agree with the last part. The elite programs get the top kids regardless of where they’re from.
-
Agree with the last part. The elite programs get the top kids regardless of where they’re from.
If Sark proves to be a good coach who can recruit, Texas will keep more of those kids home. If not, what conference they're in isn't going to move the needle a whole lot.
-
If Sark proves to be a good coach who can recruit, Texas will keep more of those kids home. If not, what conference they're in isn't going to move the needle a whole lot.
Ohio State has been doing great work in Texas. Money flows from Columbus to Texas pretty seamlessly.
-
(https://media.tenor.com/images/4229a4757274c51e4d73e1da0de89e94/tenor.gif)
I don't think money has to be an issue for schools to want more of it.
Also, only half-jokingly, TU is pissed that TAMU has closed the gap on them in football. Recruiting against TAMU has been a lot harder now that TAMU can pitch being in the SEC and playing Bama, LSU, Auburn every season.
Hmm...referring to yourself in the third person now.
-
Texas should move to become an independent, ditch Longhorn Network, and sell their football inventory to the streaming service that is the highest bidder.
-
Texas should move to become an independent, ditch Longhorn Network, and sell their football inventory to the streaming service that is the highest bidder.
And watch their relevance decrease? Because that would be a nightmare to sell to recruits.
-
The Big 12 becomes a 8-member league and there would be some attractive candidates to fill the void, particularly from the AAC (Memphis, Cincinnati, Tulsa, etc.) I'm sure North Dakota State would love the opportunity, too.
Or...for fear of being left too far behind, the other P5 conferences feast on the carcass of the B12 and the term changes from P5 to P4.
I love football conference chaos
-
And watch their relevance decrease? Because that would be a nightmare to sell to recruits.
And as Notre Dame learned in the wake of the last round of reshuffling, filling a 12-game schedule without some conference tie-in is really hard, specially if you want the kind of schedule that will get you into the playoffs.
Lining up quality opponents in September probably won't be too hard. Good luck doing the same in November.
-
I don't think it's a bad idea for OK and Texas to pursue the move. Purely from a football perspective, the difference between those 2 and the rest of the league is substantial (revenue-wise).
The Big 12 becomes a 8-member league and there would be some attractive candidates to fill the void, particularly from the AAC (Memphis, Cincinnati, Tulsa, etc.) I'm sure North Dakota State would love the opportunity, too.
Cincy has been begging to get into the Big 12 for years. They would work well geographically as a bridge between WVU and the rest of the conference. BYU is an excellent candidate, as is Colorado State. Both bring new TV markets.
The Big 12 will continue to exist, but as one tweet put it this morning, they will be the Mountain West with more humidity.
-
And watch their relevance decrease? Because that would be a nightmare to sell to recruits.
We politely disagree here.
Going to Ames/Manhattan/Stillwater/Lawrence/etc, does next to nothing for their recruiting.
Texas football isn’t going to be irrelevant if they were to become independent. If anything it would allow them to go to California, the Midwest, and East Coast.
UT is essentially a free agent right now. Once conference contraction gets going (and it’s coming), they can fill out a competitive schedule on a yearly basis. A one loss UT team as an independent would have a stronger case for the playoff as opposed to a multiple loss team as a member of the SEC.
-
We politely disagree here.
Going to Ames/Manhattan/Stillwater/Lawrence/etc, does next to nothing for their recruiting.
Texas football isn’t going to be irrelevant if they were to become independent. If anything it would allow them to go to California, the Midwest, and East Coast.
UT is essentially a free agent right now. Once conference contraction gets going (and it’s coming), they can fill out a competitive schedule on a yearly basis. A one loss UT team as an independent would have a stronger case for the playoff as opposed to a multiple loss team as a member of the SEC.
At a time when pretty much every (well, probably every) P5 game is on television, is there really much recruiting benefit from an occasional road game in a particular state?
Alabama pulls 5-star kids out of California, and has played there once in the last decade.
Ohio State just landed the #1 recruit of 2021 out of Washington, a place they last played when the kid was four years old.
I'm just not sure this matters at all to recruits.
But again, the biggest challenge will be finding games against quality opponents in October and November. What SEC powerhouse is going to want to travel to Austin in the middle of their conference schedule?
-
At a time when pretty much every (well, probably every) P5 game is on television, is there really much recruiting benefit from an occasional road game in a particular state?
Alabama pulls 5-star kids out of California, and has played there once in the last decade.
Ohio State just landed the #1 recruit of 2021 out of Washington, a place they last played when the kid was four years old.
I'm just not sure this matters at all to recruits.
But again, the biggest challenge will be finding games against quality opponents in October and November. What SEC powerhouse is going to want to travel to Austin in the middle of their conference schedule?
I’d argue respectfully, does Notre Dame have a difficult time scheduling? Would a lessened Big 12 school still want to schedule Texas (answer: Yes). Heck, a ND/Texas game every year would probably happen (and would be played just about anywhere in the country).
This isn’t just about football recruiting, it’s Texas trying to become a national brand for recruiting any kid to go to school there.
Texas is and always has been arguably the most coveted school in the conference power plays over time. Location/tv markets/alumni base, they can join any conference they want. If they went independent and decided at any time it wasn’t for them, every power conference would take them in a heartbeat.
-
I’d argue respectfully, does Notre Dame have a difficult time scheduling? Would a lessened Big 12 school still want to schedule Texas (answer: Yes). Heck, a ND/Texas game every year would probably happen (and would be played just about anywhere in the country).
This isn’t just about football recruiting, it’s Texas trying to become a national brand for recruiting any kid to go to school there.
Texas is and always has been arguably the most coveted school in the conference power plays over time. Location/tv markets/alumni base, they can join any conference they want. If they went independent and decided at any time it wasn’t for them, every power conference would take them in a heartbeat.
Notre Dame joined the ACC in part because they had trouble scheduling quality football opponents.
-
I’d argue respectfully, does Notre Dame have a difficult time scheduling? Would a lessened Big 12 school still want to schedule Texas (answer: Yes). Heck, a ND/Texas game every year would probably happen (and would be played just about anywhere in the country).
This isn’t just about football recruiting, it’s Texas trying to become a national brand for recruiting any kid to go to school there.
Texas is and always has been arguably the most coveted school in the conference power plays over time. Location/tv markets/alumni base, they can join any conference they want. If they went independent and decided at any time it wasn’t for them, every power conference would take them in a heartbeat.
1. As Fluffy noted, one of the reasons Notre Dame agreed to play five ACC games every year - along with getting their other teams into the ACC - was that they knew that with the last round realignment, it would be harder for them to fill a full schedule with decent opponents.
2. Notre Dame has the benefit of a lot of longstanding traditional rivalry games (USC, Purdue, etc.) plus the service academies to fill up dates on the schedule. Who does Texas got? I can't imagine the Big 12 schools are going to play them if they leave. A&M might, but probably not after September. Houston? Rice? SMU? How's that an upgrade from the Big 12? I just don't think programs like Alabama or Clemson or Ohio State are going to take a week in the middle of their conference schedule to travel to Austin. What's the upside for them?
Going independent won't make Texas a national brand for recruiting. Winning will.
-
Notre Dame has scheduled games in NYC, Los Angeles, Chicago in the same season, 9 times. No other school has done it once.
They move their games around for the benefit of alums/donors, and recruiting. They want the freedom to do so.
They get a good landing spot for their Olympic sports. Some of the other Power 5 Leagues don’t have as many Olympic sport offerings as the ACC. They also don’t want to be in a Midwest only league just as they don’t want to have a regional only ACC schedule. They prefer part ACC and the rest National. If they join a league permanently m, it will be the ACC.
NBC money, plus ACC money, plus CBF playoff money, plus other combined makes ND’s current situation just fine for them.
They are still a big road attendance draw and tv draw. Their recent game vs Georgia a couple of seasons ago was 2nd highest tv rating of the season for CFB.
-
Over on the holyland site, there is some discussion on how this could eventually affect the BE. I was confident that we would be insulated but now I'm a little worried. Obviously FB is front and center in this circus but I would like to know your thoughts (after reading the holyland comments) on this eventually spilling over into basketball.
As big of a success that the Big Dance is, is it immune from being threatened by a "post NCAA" environment? Could it be replicated by super conferences working in unison and if so, would the BE be on the outside looking in or vice versa?
-
Kirk Bohls is now reporting it is pretty much a done deal. Pete Thamel has been saying as much.
Discussions began more than six months ago, and, Texas A&M was left out of the discussions.
-
If this indeed has been talked about for 6 months, Chris Beard had to have known and Shaka had to have known.
-
If this indeed has been talked about for 6 months, Chris Beard had to have known and Shaka had to have known.
It’s now being reported that SEC talks with Texas/OU have gone on for more than a year. Other leagues, ACC, etc have reached out to Texas/OU as well but they believe SEC has the votes and perhaps as soon as a week will announce they are joining. We’ll see.
-
TAMU was never going to be the reason that TU didn't get added to the SEC
-
So assuming this is a #donedeal where does the B12 go from here? This would bring them to 8, so do they try to expand all the way back up to 12? Houston immediately pops to mind. UCF/USF? Tulsa? Tulane for the New Orleans presence? I haven't been following BYU closely enough to know if gong independent and the BYU network have been profitable, but maybe there is a deal to be made there?
-
Over on the holyland site, there is some discussion on how this could eventually affect the BE. I was confident that we would be insulated but now I'm a little worried. Obviously FB is front and center in this circus but I would like to know your thoughts (after reading the holyland comments) on this eventually spilling over into basketball.
As big of a success that the Big Dance is, is it immune from being threatened by a "post NCAA" environment? Could it be replicated by super conferences working in unison and if so, would the BE be on the outside looking in or vice versa?
The 2 billion dollar question
-
Is this where we discuss putting together a football team to go into the Big12? Figured we are due for a MU Football thread.
-
So assuming this is a #donedeal where does the B12 go from here? This would bring them to 8, so do they try to expand all the way back up to 12? Houston immediately pops to mind. UCF/USF? Tulsa? Tulane for the New Orleans presence? I haven't been following BYU closely enough to know if gong independent and the BYU network have been profitable, but maybe there is a deal to be made there?
Houston for sure. Colorado State makes sense.
Tulsa makes sense geographically but its surprisingly small. Both private schools in the B12, TCU and Baylor, have 10K+ kids while Tulsa is under 4K.
BYU seems logical. Maybe Memphis? Maybe New Mexico? Maybe see if Sam Houston State makes the jump to FBS given how successful they are at the FCS level?
-
Houston for sure. Colorado State makes sense.
Tulsa makes sense geographically but its surprisingly small. Both private schools in the B12, TCU and Baylor, have 10K+ kids while Tulsa is under 4K.
BYU seems logical. Maybe Memphis? Maybe New Mexico? Maybe see if Sam Houston State makes the jump to FBS given how successful they are at the FCS level?
The Big XII is dead. Kansas will be gone. They can add whoever but they’ll be a slightly better AAC. The Big 14 will almost certainly add 2 schools now in an attempt to match balls with the SEC. I think people dismissing Kansas in the Big 14 are way off base. The basketball is worth it.
-
Just the next natural step on our way to four 16 team super conferences that will eventually break away from the NCAA. Biggest question left is who can grab the last open spots. B10 will have one opening, ACC will have three, although this could push ND to fully commit, PAC-12 will have four, would they go for the scraps of the B12, or just take the top of the Mountain West?
-
So assuming this is a #donedeal where does the B12 go from here? This would bring them to 8, so do they try to expand all the way back up to 12? Houston immediately pops to mind. UCF/USF? Tulsa? Tulane for the New Orleans presence? I haven't been following BYU closely enough to know if gong independent and the BYU network have been profitable, but maybe there is a deal to be made there?
BYU is the golden goose still out there. They have to be priority 1, 2, & 3 if the Big 12 hopes to survive. I imagine they will probably have to actually go back to 12 as well, with UCF, Houston, Cincy, Colorado State, and a few others all getting consideration.
I could just as easily see it all collapsing if the Big 10 and Pac-12 pounce. If so, I hope the Big East has their eyes on the worst/best football/basketball programs of Kansas.
-
Interesting that no one is talking about Boise State.
-
Interesting that no one is talking about Boise State.
How 'bout them Broncos?!?!
You're welcome, Pak. We're here to serve.
-
Interesting that no one is talking about Boise State.
Id guess probably because its 1000 miles away from the nearest B12 school. And even BYU is 400 miles closer.
MWC is a good fit for Boise St. It would make sense for a PAC-12 expansion, but not so much for B12 IMO.
-
Id guess probably because its 1000 miles away from the nearest B12 school. And even BYU is 400 miles closer.
MWC is a good fit for Boise St. It would make sense for a PAC-12 expansion, but not so much for B12 IMO.
too many attractive options within the current footprint (or right outside in BYU's case).
Houston, SMU, Colorado State, Cincy all make more sense than Boise or UCF.
-
Just in case anyone is wondering. From today's New Haven Register.
Could UConn leave the Big East if conference realignment revs up again? Not very likely.
David Borges
July 22, 2021
Updated: July 22, 2021 9:52 p.m
Did you hear the news? Texas and Oklahoma are actively looking to leave the Big 12 and join the SEC, according to a Houston Chronicle report. It wasn’t exactly steadfastly denied by officials from either school, so something appears to be up.
Did you hear the other news? After losing its two marquee programs, the Big 12 will raid the ACC, leaving a void in that league that will obviously be filled by UConn.
OK, that’s just rampant speculation on social media, message boards, even from some media types.
Bottom line, that’s not happening right now. UConn officials scoff at the notion. The school couldn’t be happier to be back in the Big East, and one way it’s showed its gratitude is by agreeing to pay a whopping $30 million exit fee if it were to leave any time within its first six years in the league.
IMAGES:
University of Connecticut men's basketball coach Dan Hurley, left, University President Susan Herbst, third left, Big East Commissioner Val Ackerman, fourth left, women's basketball coach Geno Auriemma, fifth left, and Director of Athletics David Benedict, pose for photos during the announcement that the University of Connecticut is re-joining the Big East Conference, at New York's Madison Square Garden, Thursday, June 27, 2019. (AP Photo/Richard Drew)
“We didn’t join the Big East to leave,” UConn athletic director David Benedict said back in May, 2020, a little over a month before UConn officially re-joined the league. “They didn’t bring us in to leave, and we didn’t join to leave.”
That fee gradually decreases after six years, but will still be substantial for a while.
Plus, if things were to follow a similar model as UConn’s departure from the American Athletic Conference, the school would have to pay an ACC entry fee. The entry fee to join the Big East was $3.5 million.
And don’t forget, UConn is still paying the AAC about $1 million a year over the next six years for its own $17 million exit fee, which was largely covered by turning over the school’s share of media rights to the AAC.
Oh, and of course, UConn currently has a $43.5 million athletics budget deficit that has caused the school to drop several sports, among other measures.
But wouldn’t all those deficits be made up for by the financial windfall of joining the AAC? Well, sure. But not for a long time.
Yes, the ACC shares $32.3 million per member school via its media-rights deal. The Big East only shares about $4 million per school. But typically, when a school joins a new conference, it doesn’t become fully-vested for such payments for several years, as Rutgers found out when it joined the Big 10 and Louisville the ACC about seven years ago.
Schools aren’t immediately fully-vested in NCAA units and other payments earned by their new conference, either. UConn won’t be fully-vested in the Big East for another five years.
Now, obviously, a move to the ACC (or another Power-5 league) could ultimately be a great financial boon to UConn. But that is way, way down the line. Too far to even fathom, at this point. UConn is happy to be back in the Big East, where it “belongs,” and certainly doesn’t want to give any indication that it is planning a departure. Because it isn’t.
And let’s face it, maybe the ACC doesn’t even want UConn. The football program isn’t exactly overly attractive.
Regardless, after nearly a decade of dormancy, conference realignment appears to be on the horizon once again. If Texas and Oklahoma do eventually leave, the dominoes will fall. The AAC could perish, with schools like Houston, UCF, Cincinnati and Memphis prime targets for the Big 12. Or it could expand, picking apart the Big 12’s carcass. Plenty of moves could be made by other leagues, as well.
Perhaps, instead of losing UConn, the Big East gains a program from the Big 12, although it’s hard to see other top programs going independent with their football programs.
Or maybe this is all a play for Texas and Oklahoma to garner a better TV contract for the Big 12 and, like about six years earlier, nothing happens at all with the conference.
Right now, it’s all speculation. But don’t speculate that UConn is packing for a Big East departure. That won’t be happening anytime soon — if ever.
david.borges@hearstmediact.com
-
BYU is the golden goose still out there. They have to be priority 1, 2, & 3 if the Big 12 hopes to survive. I imagine they will probably have to actually go back to 12 as well, with UCF, Houston, Cincy, Colorado State, and a few others all getting consideration.
I could just as easily see it all collapsing if the Big 10 and Pac-12 pounce. If so, I hope the Big East has their eyes on the worst/best football/basketball programs of Kansas.
Maybe not the main reason, but there’s definitely a reason BYU hasn’t been invited to a P5 in the past. I don’t think today’s climate is any better, but they do draw lots of eyeballs.
-
Really good article detailing why this made sense for ESPN and how they were involved.
https://awfulannouncing.com/espn/biggest-winner-oklahoma-texas-sec-espn.html
-
Really good article detailing why this made sense for ESPN and how they were involved.
https://awfulannouncing.com/espn/biggest-winner-oklahoma-texas-sec-espn.html
That TV deal is going to be insane for the SEC
-
It’ll be interesting to see what value Nebraska/Maryland/Rutgers carry for B1G for their upcoming tv rights deal. Those cable boxes in DC/NYC meant a lot more 10 years ago than they will going forward.
Could argue contraction of those 3 schools, and maybe adding Syracuse makes more sense.
-
It’ll be interesting to see what value Nebraska/Maryland/Rutgers carry for B1G for their upcoming tv rights deal. Those cable boxes in DC/NYC meant a lot more 10 years ago than they will going forward.
Could argue contraction of those 3 schools, and maybe adding Syracuse makes more sense.
I think if they had it over the Big 10 would have been much more aggressive with Texas and other B12 schools like Missouri. Rutgers and Maryland just aren’t fits.
-
My wife was describing her first Gator game to a friend. She said she couldn't remember which team they played, but it was one of those cousin loving states. I told her, this is the SEC, they are all cousin loving states.... (It was Tennessee btw)
Excuse me.....
As an ex-Tennessean, don't get us confused with Arkansas and Mississippi. We like our women, but not our "related" women.
Tennesseans are so-fisticated. We still think Elvis is alive and among us. We make our own "shine" because, well, we can. We think every woman should look like Dolly Parton.
I could go on, but.....
-
Just the next natural step on our way to four 16 team super conferences that will eventually break away from the NCAA. Biggest question left is who can grab the last open spots. B10 will have one opening, ACC will have three, although this could push ND to fully commit, PAC-12 will have four, would they go for the scraps of the B12, or just take the top of the Mountain West?
... and how many will watch a P4 basketball championship? What meaning do regular season games have if all the teams qualify for a P4 tournament? Or will a tournament made up of the other 290 or so D1 teams draw more interest as it represents a wider swath of schools many with just as large an alumni base as the P4 schools.
I think basketball will keep them inside the NCAA.
-
... and how many will watch a P4 basketball championship? What meaning do regular season games have if all the teams qualify for a P4 tournament? Or will a tournament made up of the other 290 or so D1 teams draw more interest as it represents a wider swath of schools many with just as large an alumni base as the P4 schools.
I think basketball will keep them inside the NCAA.
I think it is pretty obvious that regular season games mean something even when a bunch of teams make the playoffs. I mean, they entertain you right?
College football has figured this out, and that is why they are expanding the playoff. An expanded playoff will bring in HUGE ratings, and won't sacrifice regular season ratings because...well...people like watching college football. That's pretty much why the P6 have conference tournaments.
-
... and how many will watch a P4 basketball championship? What meaning do regular season games have if all the teams qualify for a P4 tournament? Or will a tournament made up of the other 290 or so D1 teams draw more interest as it represents a wider swath of schools many with just as large an alumni base as the P4 schools.
I think basketball will keep them inside the NCAA.
Well you would still have seeding to consider, so the regular season would determine that.
You're also keeping the existing rivalries in place, people will watch a Duke UNC game even if there is nothing at stake.
Since you're breaking away from the NCAA, you can be much more liberal with the methods of paying players (Jrue Holiday just got a million dollar bonus because the bucks won the championship). Additional incentives like that will get the best players competing at the best level.
As for who would watch it, if/when the break away does happen, it will likely be just as viewed as March Madness currently is within one recruiting cycle.
-
Well you would still have seeding to consider, so the regular season would determine that.
You're also keeping the existing rivalries in place, people will watch a Duke UNC game even if there is nothing at stake.
Since you're breaking away from the NCAA, you can be much more liberal with the methods of paying players (Jrue Holiday just got a million dollar bonus because the bucks won the championship). Additional incentives like that will get the best players competing at the best level.
As for who would watch it, if/when the break away does happen, it will likely be just as viewed as March Madness currently is within one recruiting cycle.
Things to consider if the P4/P5 break away:
1. Who is in charge?
2. Who does oversight?
3. Who runs non-revenue sport tournaments?
4. Do you leagues still negotiate their own media rights deals? If so, if scheduling outside this new entity, how does that get measured for post-season seeding?
-
If the B1G grabs KU, their next call should be to WVU. Just makes sense geographically, balances the conferences, etc.
-
I think if they had it over the Big 10 would have been much more aggressive with Texas and other B12 schools like Missouri. Rutgers and Maryland just aren’t fits.
Jim Delaney's focus at that time was almost solely focused on TV markets and getting BTN into as many homes as possible, thus NYC and DC were huge targets. It had nothing to do with Rutgers and Maryland's fits in the conference which were and have always been awkward.
-
Jim Delaney's focus at that time was almost solely focused on TV markets and getting BTN into as many homes as possible, thus NYC and DC were huge targets. It had nothing to do with Rutgers and Maryland's fits in the conference which were and have always been awkward.
+1
-
Maybe not the main reason, but there’s definitely a reason BYU hasn’t been invited to a P5 in the past. I don’t think today’s climate is any better, but they do draw lots of eyeballs.
BYU’s biggest strikes is their no games on Sundays policies and, in the case of the Pac12, a history of poaching players on Missions. That can’t happen anymore. They have the money and following to draw well. Plus, when you sell a family plan that’s 6 tickets on average.
-
Jim Delaney's focus at that time was almost solely focused on TV markets and getting BTN into as many homes as possible, thus NYC and DC were huge targets. It had nothing to do with Rutgers and Maryland's fits in the conference which were and have always been awkward.
Yes. But as dish pointed out, cable cutting has made that a lot less valuable moving forward. In hindsight, maybe was the wrong move. Seemed genius at the time
-
Yes. But as dish pointed out, cable cutting has made that a lot less valuable moving forward. In hindsight, maybe was the wrong move. Seemed genius at the time
Yeah I think if they knew then what they did now, those wouldn’t have been the choices.
-
Really good article detailing why this made sense for ESPN and how they were involved.
https://awfulannouncing.com/espn/biggest-winner-oklahoma-texas-sec-espn.html
Missing is CBS plans in three years after they lose the SEC. Also, could see FOX taking the whole Big Ten package. How does the Pac-12 look when their tv deal comes up in a few years. Is that a FOX/CBS deal. Hard to think that the Big Ten and Pac-12 will want to get scrapes when FOX and CBS is out there. ESPN will be heavy with SEC, ACC.
-
Allegedly, SEC also talking to Ohio state, Michigan, Florida state and Clemson.
-
Allegedly, SEC also talking to Ohio state, Michigan, Florida state and Clemson.
Guess they want to add some tomato cans.
-
Allegedly, SEC also talking to Ohio state, Michigan, Florida state and Clemson.
That’s pretty wild. So is it worth it for these schools to have the guaranteed SEC payout compared to an open shot at the CFP?
That SEC would make up close to 80% of the CFP appearances since it started. I would imagine it makes things tougher unless it goes to 8 at-large bids.
-
Guess they want to add some tomato cans.
I don’t think this report is true as awesome as that would be
-
Allegedly, SEC also talking to Ohio state, Michigan, Florida state and Clemson.
Florida State and Clemson I get. Both fit nicely within the existing geographic and football-centric cultures of the SEC.
Michigan and Ohio State, NEVER. I see them talking as a means of leverage against other conference members.
Now, lets raise another issue. If the SEC expands to 16 football-centric schools, how long will it be before the conference asks Vanderbilt to leave. Yes, I get the argument that Vanderbilt does well in baseball and historically has been OK in basketball. Or that Vandy brings class to a bunch of Bubbas and historically has assured the conference's ACT scores reached an average of double digits, but Vanderbilt fits in the SEC about as well as Middle Tennessee State fits in the Ivy League.
At some point, Vanderbilt football and, recently, Vanderbilt basketball, doesn't fit. Vandy is now the only legacy SEC school never to have won the conference football championship. They NEVER will. The rest of the SEC has to split the television revenue with Vanderbilt and they candidly get nothing for it. Even the Mississippis have a chance at an SEC title (albeit not much of one). Imagine if Vanderbilt left and was replaced with Clemson or Florida State?
It could happen. The SEC Could tell Vanderbilt to upgrade Dudley Field to a 70,000 seat wonder. Vandy theoretically could play at Nissan Stadium, but then there would be a lot of empty seats most of the year. Or the conference could set minimum spending and performance goals Vanderbilt could not meet.
Bottom line: as quaint as it is to have Vanderbilt in the SEC, this is coming. And then how long will it be before other power conferences prune their weakest links? If football is the answer, all of this is coming!
-
Florida State and Clemson I get. Both fit nicely within the existing geographic and football-centric cultures of the SEC.
Michigan and Ohio State, NEVER. I see them talking as a means of leverage against other conference members.
Now, lets raise another issue. If the SEC expands to 16 football-centric schools, how long will it be before the conference asks Vanderbilt to leave. Yes, I get the argument that Vanderbilt does well in baseball and historically has been OK in basketball. Or that Vandy brings class to a bunch of Bubbas and historically has assured the conference's ACT scores reached an average of double digits, but Vanderbilt fits in the SEC about as well as Middle Tennessee State fits in the Ivy League.
At some point, Vanderbilt football and, recently, Vanderbilt basketball, doesn't fit. Vandy is now the only legacy SEC school never to have won the conference football championship. They NEVER will. The rest of the SEC has to split the television revenue with Vanderbilt and they candidly get nothing for it. Even the Mississippis have a chance at an SEC title (albeit not much of one). Imagine if Vanderbilt left and was replaced with Clemson or Florida State?
It could happen. The SEC Could tell Vanderbilt to upgrade Dudley Field to a 70,000 seat wonder. Vandy theoretically could play at Nissan Stadium, but then there would be a lot of empty seats most of the year. Or the conference could set minimum spending and performance goals Vanderbilt could not meet.
Bottom line: as quaint as it is to have Vanderbilt in the SEC, this is coming. And then how long will it be before other power conferences prune their weakest links? If football is the answer, all of this is coming!
Vandy has a top 25 recruiting class with its first year with its new staff. I expect them to be a winning record mid tier bowl program under this new staff. They are also spending $300 million (to start) on new football and athletic facilities. This is in addition to their recent locker room, end zone, and McGugin upgrades.
Success is often linked to current coaching regime, administration, and $ commitment. All 3 of those things recently changed there. (Vandy is not alone in that regard.)
With that said, the landscape is ever changing, schools such as Texas are only out for Texas. Perhaps talks will emerge about combining the SEC with the ACC. We'll see.
-
Vandy has a top 25 recruiting class with its first year with its new staff. I expect them to be a winning record mid tier bowl program under this new staff. They are also spending $300 million (to start) on new football and athletic facilities. This is in addition to their recent locker room, end zone, and McGugin upgrades.
Success is often linked to current coaching regime, administration, and $ commitment. All 3 of those things recently changed there. (Vandy is not alone in that regard.)
With that said, the landscape is ever changing, schools such as Texas are only out for Texas. Perhaps talks will emerge about combining the SEC with the ACC. We'll see.
Brother Hoops,
Do you believe there is room for Vanderbilt in the forthcoming SEC? I really don’t. Vandy is a quaint throwback to another era when the idea of college sports was alums from, say Tennessee and Vanderbilt, or Alabama and Auburn, getting together on a Saturday afternoon and watching the latest kids play football.
Those days are way past gone.
Look, I grew up on VU football and there were some pretty fun afternoons at Dudley Field watching really bad football teams get pummeled. I still watch them from time to time on the SEC network. But, in the new SEC, they are not relevant.
Stanford, Northwestern and others are a couple steps ahead of Vanderbilt but also may face the same fate if they become uncompetitive for an extended period of time — again.
-
Brother Hoops,
Do you believe there is room for Vanderbilt in the forthcoming SEC? I really don’t.
Are they getting kicked out?
-
Are they getting kicked out?
No.
He often posts about memories from many, sometimes many many, decades ago. Sometimes things change over time. And, sometimes things can and do change more quickly. If you don’t keep up you may not know what is or isn’t going on.
Let’s give some current event examples.
Take Vandy. I mentioned that they now have a new AD, new Chancellor, new board construction with several high profile sports people on it. They just upgraded their locker rooms. They are currently finishing a stadium end zone project. They recently completed upgrades to their Athletic building. They have a $300 Million multi building project coming, mostly for football. They hired an alum as their coach, who immediately hired a good staff that is recruiting at a top 25 level. They have a long term goal of being more competitive more often in football. This is just for football. Obviously the school is highly successful in several other sports. If anything, the excitement level for football future there is high.
Dgies referenced Northwestern and Stanford. Vandy thinks it has a coach and staff and admin that can win there as James Franklin did, but, stay longer. Their route and path will be different to it, but they think they can do that.
Northwestern has won 9 games 4 times in 15 seasons under Fitzgerald. They have won 6 games 11 times. The SEC is a tough league but Vandy can have this type of success longer term based on what they have now and what they are doing.
Mizzou’s AD unexpectedly stepped down last night. Coming into a difficult situation at the time if some recall, they raised $51 Million in 2017. They raised $56 Million this past year. They completed a $100 million end zone project. The newer coach is recruiting at a high level, currently top 15 for 2022. Ticket sales are up. And this is another example of small time SEC money compared to the bigger money places.
There are more examples as well.
The SEC may add more teams and merge with any additional league.
We’ll see what happens. But the past isn’t the present, and the present, isn’t the future. If one doesn’t keep up with what is going on somewhere, their reference points sometimes can become outdated. Time change. Vandy is no longer a quaint Mid South/Southeastern school and it hasn’t been in a long time. Diverse student body comes fom equally all parts of the country, as well as others Internationally.
Dgies might want to take a visit and a campus tour. Vandy is almost finished with its 2023 completed $600 Million campus project. At the very least maybe watch online this weekend, as the last 2 of 4 Carmichael Towers are being demolished this week on West End Avenue this Saturday, 9am.
-
Well yeah that's my point. Is Vandy going to compete for conference titles in football? No. But there certainly is "room for Vanderbilt in the forthcoming SEC."
-
Looks like this is now official per the ESPN notification I just got.
-
Well-written piece about conference reshuffling in general and about how it affects the ACC (and also some ND) in particular:
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/article253041348.html?
-
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-12-commissioner-alleges-espn-conspired-with-sec-american-to-lure-teams-from-conference/
Big 12 is pissed
-
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-12-commissioner-alleges-espn-conspired-with-sec-american-to-lure-teams-from-conference/
Big 12 is pissed
So just like ESPN did with the old Big East and the ACC.
What's old is new again.
-
So just like ESPN did with the old Big East and the ACC.
What's old is new again.
ESPN is the de facto commissioner of college football
-
I wouldn't guarantee TAMU saying no.
TAMU voted yes
-
TAMU voted yes
Probably under duress, but the SEC wanted to make the decision appear unanimous.
-
https://streamable.com/dbjm7a
-
https://streamable.com/dbjm7a
I LOL'd
-
Probably under duress, but the SEC wanted to make the decision appear unanimous.
Actually their Board of Regents voted 8-1 in support. The money is too good, and frankly voting no would have looked ridiculous.
-
https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/os6iie/gif_war_realignment_buddies/
-
poor A&M:
https://twitter.com/SkaggsOB/status/1420862245676933122
-
With OU and UT off to SEC its time to bust up the Big12, ...I reflected logical moves of its remaining members, reset each of these four to 16 teams/8 teams per division, and Voila its a new Power 4 with 48 teams fairly grouped by area, rivalry etc.
Take a look:
THE BIG- East Ohio State Buckeyes
Indiana Hoosiers
Penn State Nittany Lions
Maryland Terrapins
Rutgers Scarlet Knights
Michigan Wolverines
Michigan State Spartans
Purdue Boilermakers
THE BIG- West
Northwestern Wildcats
Iowa Hawkeyes
Wisconsin Badgers
Minnesota Golden Gophers
Nebraska Cornhuskers
Iowa State Cyclones
Kansas Jayhawks
Illinois Fighting Illini
SEC- East
Florida Gators
Georgia Bulldogs
Kentucky Wildcats
Tennessee Volunteers
South Carolina Gamecocks
Vanderbilt Commodores
Alabama Crimson Tide
Auburn Tigers
SEC - West
Texas A&M Aggies
LSU Tigers
Ole Miss Rebels
Arkansas Razorbacks
Mississippi State Bulldogs
UT Longhorns
OK Sooners
Missouri Tigers
Pac 16- West
Washington Huskies
Stanford Cardinal
Oregon Ducks
Oregon State Beavers
California Golden Bears
Washington State Cougars
USC Trojans
UCLA Bruins
Pac 16 - East
Colorado Buffaloes
Utah Utes
Arizona State Sun Devils
Arizona Wildcats
TCU Horned Frogs
Baylor Bears
Texas Tech Red Raiders
OSU Cowboys
ACC- North
Boston College Eagles
Pittsburgh Panthers
Syracuse Orange
Virginia Cavaliers
Virginia Tech Hokies
West Virginia Mountaineers
Louisville Cardinals
Notre Dame* (5-7 games)
ACC- South
Clemson Tigers
Duke Blue Devils
Florida State Seminoles
Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets
Miami Hurricanes
NC State Wolfpack
North Carolina Tar Heels
Wake Forest Demon Deacons
This came out pretty balanced and complete, but nothing is perfect....
Incompleteness: K state is not re-homed from Big 12, BYU is still indep. ... lots of second tiers
my thought is American and Mountain West merge to have a 4 division conf to also include BYU, K State
Thoughts about the above Power 4?
-
Thoughts about the above Power 4?
It makes logical, geographic sense. Which of course means it will never happen.
I've always wondered about the 16 team cap. As long as realignment has been a thing, people have suggested that conferences would not go above 16 teams. Are we certain that's the case? If you can go to 16, why not go to 20? 24? More?
I've also always wondered why conferences would want to add more members if it just means the pie is getting sliced more ways. Obviously the SEC getting OU and TU moves the needle enough that the pie gets bigger so it makes sense. But does the B1G adding Iowa St just to get to 16 teams make them more money? Or is it just another mouth to feed?
-
With OU and UT off to SEC its time to bust up the Big12, ...I reflected logical moves of its remaining members, reset each of these four to 16 teams/8 teams per division, and Voila its a new Power 4 with 48 teams fairly grouped by area, rivalry etc.
Thoughts about the above Power 4?
And still no Cincinnati. I love it.
-
Greg Sankey has read the book, “The Club,” so maybe he is ready for one Super-conference with promotion and relegation:
https://twitter.com/gregsankey/status/1080813714914377729?s=21
-
And still no Cincinnati. I love it.
The Houston Cougars were the most likely to promote to power 5, just a few years ago, and now its Cincy. But, I don't see this realignment as a time of "lets promote littler guys to the club" ...
....its more about Power 5ers in Big12 preserving their status and $ flow by going to another power conf.
My efforts above still left K state, BYU and all the power conf wannbabes (AAC, Mountain West, etc,) out of the mix
...because the wealth is congealing not disbursing the Power 5 is more likely to contract to 4 than to bring in "expansion" teams