Could this end the era of "one-and-done?"
Ex-UConn coach Kevin Ollie to coach new elite prospect venture
https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/31242042/sources-ex-uconn-coach-kevin-ollie-coach-new-elite-prospect-venture
Former UConn Huskies coach and 13-year NBA veteran Kevin Ollie has been hired as head coach and director of player development for the Overtime Elite, a new professional basketball league for top prospects between 16 and 18 years old.
Ollie will work with Brandon Williams, Overtime Elite's executive VP and head of basketball operations, to assemble what's expected to be a 40-person operations staff, including coaches, sports science and performance personnel, trainers and counselors to work with young players. Ollie won a national championship as UConn's coach in 2014, and Williams is a former NBA player and front-office executive with Philadelphia and Sacramento.
The OTE's plan is to offer six-figure financial packages and an academic tutoring component for high school players to compete against prep school and international teams in a year-round training program. The league's model would allow for players to share in prospective revenue from name, image and likeness and sales of custom jerseys, trading cards and non-fungible tokens. These players would lose college eligibility but be able to advance toward the G League and NBA draft in a more basketball-intensive environment.
oh, like what European Football has been doing for DECADES!!!!
No, it will not be a game changer. It won't generate enough revenue.
I somewhat agree that I do not see where the revenue is for their model, but I think this would be good for college basketball were it to work out. More 4 year players hopefully. Lesser players but a better team game, I would hope.
I think you are going to end up with a fair number of 16 year olds looking at this, taking the deal and not panning out meaning they have no college options basketball wise at this point too.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 12, 2021, 09:26:27 AM
I think you are going to end up with a fair number of 16 year olds looking at this, taking the deal and not panning out meaning they have no college options basketball wise at this point too.
So if they play for 2 years, they pocket 200k and have more then enough money for college?
Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on April 12, 2021, 09:30:30 AM
So if they play for 2 years, they pocket 200k and have more then enough money for college?
I kinda doubt many 16-18 year old kids who have their sights set on the NBA are gonna pocket their earnings. It assumes a financial discipline that most adults don't have, much less kids. And it assumes they're planning for failure, which I suspect isn't in their DNA.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on April 12, 2021, 09:37:02 AM
I kinda doubt many 16-18 year old kids who have their sights set on the NBA are gonna pocket their earnings. It assumes a financial discipline that most adults don't have, much less kids. And it assumes they're planning for failure, which I suspect isn't in their DNA.
The money has to be coming from future earnings by these players. There will be very little market (viewership) for this.
Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on April 12, 2021, 09:30:30 AM
So if they play for 2 years, they pocket 200k and have more then enough money for college?
Minus taxes and other spending, it is doubtful they will have enough for college.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on April 12, 2021, 09:44:25 AM
The money has to be coming from future earnings by these players. There will be very little market (viewership) for this.
Quite likely. Either way, they aren't going to come out of these couple of years with cash to pay for college.
Are prep schools allowed to play professional teams?
I don't see enough people watching this to bring in the necessary revenue to operate.
I hope it is successful, giving young athletes options to earn $$$ for their hard work and prepare them for pro careers, whether in the NBA or Europe.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on April 12, 2021, 10:10:59 AM
I don't see enough people watching this to bring in the necessary revenue to operate.
Revenue is likely to be rather slim. Though, in the short term, it might hang around due to investors like Kevin Durant and Carmelo Anthony and others giving seed money for the project.
What will drive their revenue will be a TV deal. ESPN, Fox Sports, CBS Sports, NBATV, and/or regional sports networks could all take a serious look at this league as they need content.
And if it is successful, meaning it hangs around for a few years, think of an 8 team league with 12 players per roster. They would siphon off most if to all the top 50 guys each year. Yes, the Duke or Kentucky's of the world would go hard after the next 50, but they will not be one or two and done, they will stick around meaning talent will not as concentrated in a few schools like now.
What really ends this is if the NCAA feels threatened and waives their eligibility rules for these players to go to college after a stint in this league. Or if the NCAA relents on NIL (name, image, likeness) revenues to the players and possibly paying players.
The fundamental challenge faced by all these leagues is that very few people have any interest in watching these kids play. I've never watched a G League game, I never watched anything from Ball's league, and it's doubtful that I'll ever watch this. I'm interested in Marquette and NCAA basketball (and NBA). Take the exact same kids and put them in a different league, and I really couldn't care less. No interest at all. Zero. History suggests that most fans share my view. In my opinion, the only reason TBT has a following and fan interest (including me) is that they had the good sense to tie it to NCAA teams.
AAU ball is not fun to watch. Neither will this be fun to watch.
Hard work to benefit you as a person in the future without providing a service or material benefit to others should not be compensated and does not deserve to be compensated.
The money for this venture will run out in a hurry if NBA teams and/or agents are not making millions off these boys/very young men. Even if this model works for a small percentage of kids, it just seems like another form of adults taking advantage of these players.
It is going to be interesting to see how the NIL shakes out, but you have to figure kids would make more money if they play with college teams that have passionate fan bases than random Super BB squad X.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on April 12, 2021, 10:53:45 AM
The money for this venture will run out in a hurry if NBA teams and/or agents are not making millions off these boys/very young men. Even if this model works for a small percentage of kids, it just seems like another form of adults taking advantage of these players.
+1 I just don't see a ROI for the backers. There's not an infinite market for hoops out there and certainly not one for teens who have no allegiance to anything that resonates with average viewers.
Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on April 12, 2021, 09:30:30 AM
So if they play for 2 years, they pocket 200k and have more then enough money for college?
Yeah, like a teenager will actually sock away all their earnings.
We used to live not far from a single-A minor league baseball stadium. The players' parking lot was filled with $50K+ sports cars. At that time A-ball players made $1100/month during the baseball season only. You know that within a couple of years most of those guys were out of baseball with their signing bonuses spent.
Our neighbor's kid got a deal where his initial contract included paying for his college if things didn't work out. Perhaps that could be part of the model for this league.
I know some articles are indicating that in addition to the compensation they will get some money toward education if they ultimately elect to not pursue basketball professionally. I haven't seen much in the way of details how that would work.
Doesn't high-level junior hockey offer scholarships to kids who give up their eligibility to play juniors? I thought I heard that at some point.
Quote from: MU82 on April 12, 2021, 10:14:22 AM
I hope it is successful, giving young athletes options to earn $$$ for their hard work and prepare them for pro careers, whether in the NBA or Europe.
If this model could be financially sustainable, I'd be in favor of even waving the "amateur" rule for players that play in such a league. Provided there is a firm age range/cap e.g. 16-18 or 16-19.
Give kids a chance to earn and save some money (if they want). Emphasize continued learning to keep them eligible/get an education. Might actually better prepare them for college, by getting them into an environment of like minded individuals.
If such a league prioritized education and skill development, this could be a great type of program.
Let's start with the supply of players who are near one and done levels. Top 25. Let's assume half want in each year on the high side. 12-13? Enough for one team, only to lose them to the NBA or G League after one season. And then, how many 16 or 17 year olds will join or will their parents allow them too?
The JBA utilized low paid JUCOs and bounce backs to fill out their 8 team rosters and essentially left them out to dry when they folded after one year.
Give it a shot. This is America where ingenuity and opportunity abounds for those who want it.
Quote from: forgetful on April 12, 2021, 11:19:54 AM
If this model could be financially sustainable, I'd be in favor of even waving the "amateur" rule for players that play in such a league. Provided there is a firm age range/cap e.g. 16-18 or 16-19.
Give kids a chance to earn and save some money (if they want). Emphasize continued learning to keep them eligible/get an education. Might actually better prepare them for college, by getting them into an environment of like minded individuals.
If such a league prioritized education and skill development, this could be a great type of program.
Sure. All of the above.
I'm all for options and for opportunities. If a 16-year-old actor or dancer or violinist has potential to be great, I want her or him to have options and opportunities besides high school, too. And he or she does.
What happens if the league lasts a year and folds? These kids are just SOL? Could have 17 year olds who have already blown their college eligibility.
My 12 year old son consumes a ton of Overtime content. He thinks of them in the same vein as ESPN.
Quote from: The Lens on April 12, 2021, 11:40:19 AM
My 12 year old son consumes a ton of Overtime content. He thinks of them in the same vein as ESPN.
I could see this being profitable if it's geared towards kids. Essentially the Disney channel of pro sports. But thats about it. Even then unsure if there's enough interest to give them the ROI they'd be after to run a whole league
When Dan Porter discusses the league, he talks about how younger fans are often more invested in individual players than teams. (Video games etc).
And, he also mentions that kids today grow up with smart phones, and, often watch highlights of games on their phones as opposed to entire games.
He has an interesting background, and, he understands what he is getting into here. We'll see.
https://proskillsbasketball.com/dan-porter-overtime-ceo-interview/
Quote from: shoothoops on April 12, 2021, 12:04:13 PM
He has an interesting background, and, he understands what he is getting into here. We'll see.
I suspect the people to tried to put the XFL on the air (again) felt similarly.
History has shown that it's
very difficult for new professional sports leagues to survive unless they are heavily subsidized by existing sports leagues.
Quote from: shoothoops on April 12, 2021, 12:04:13 PM
When Dan Porter discusses the league, he talks about how younger fans are often more invested in individual players than teams. (Video games etc).
And, he also mentions that kids today grow up with smart phones, and, often watch highlights of games on their phones as opposed to entire games.
He has an interesting background, and, he understands what he is getting into here. We'll see.
https://proskillsbasketball.com/dan-porter-overtime-ceo-interview/
So is his thinking is he can treat a whole league as a Mikey Williams type influencer and then use that money to pay all the salaries and back office people?
I'm struggling to see the market for this. The G League has better players and covers the Minor League to the NBA aspect. They have teams in bigger towns that don't have NBA teams (Fox Valley for the Bucks).
The TBT is a short tournament that is mainly for those that like to see the alumni teams.
Could this be as successful as I've Cubes 3 on 3 league? That at least his former NBA guys and some celebrities. I'm not even sure how successful it is.
It feels like this will go the way of the other basketball of football leagues that never really gained a footing.
I think Overtime will have much different ways of serving and monetizing content vs. the XFL, etc.
This league is as much a content play as it is a league. They have a growing audience and need more content to deliver.
Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on April 12, 2021, 09:30:30 AM
So if they play for 2 years, they pocket 200k and have more then enough money for college?
considering how little the average G League player makes ($35,000) outside of the "Ignite team, there's no way this league is going to be paying kids $100K a year.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on April 12, 2021, 05:21:49 PM
considering how little the average G League player makes ($35,000) outside of the "Ignite team, there's no way this league is going to be paying kids $100K a year.
You sure that's still true? Thought they heavily upgraded the salaries after the rebrand and restructure
Quote from: cheebs09 on April 12, 2021, 12:26:32 PM
I'm struggling to see the market for this. The G League has better players and covers the Minor League to the NBA aspect. They have teams in bigger towns that don't have NBA teams (Fox Valley for the Bucks).
The TBT is a short tournament that is mainly for those that like to see the alumni teams.
Could this be as successful as I've Cubes 3 on 3 league? That at least his former NBA guys and some celebrities. I'm not even sure how successful it is.
It feels like this will go the way of the other basketball of football leagues that never really gained a footing.
I've Cubes is one of the funnier typos/autocorrect I've seen.
So this is basically an AAU league where kids get paid? That level of basketball is atrocious to watch so I don't see it garnering much of an audience. Does anyone watch high school games on ESPN? That being said, KO's league seems to offer a much more stable environment than AAU in terms of development and coaching. I'm for anything that increases the skill level of American players. AAU has oft been mentioned as a setback in terms of skill development due to its nature of coaches being in it for money/notoriety rather than player development itself - Hence why European ball players tend to have better fundamentals than American players.
If it's to work, then it needs to be played in summer to build an audience. The only other way I can see kids getting paid is if shoe companies dole out the money to subsidize it. 16-18 year olds playing basketball just isn't that fun to watch unless you give it a "Team USA" aspect and play international teams. Otherwise, who is going to identify with it?
Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 12, 2021, 05:22:55 PM
You sure that's still true? Thought they heavily upgraded the salaries after the rebrand and restructure
that was the 19-20 average after the increase and does not include the "select" players on the Ignite team or "affiliate" or "assignment" players
whose rights are held by an NBA team. Sad to think those were upgraded salaries.
I am sure in the fine print, there will be a clause that allows this new entity to recoup the funds advanced to participants against future NLI revenues .
Overtime is a very well established brand. They have something other leagues didn't start with: eye balls, fans, followers
If you operate on the assumption - as I do - that the "funds" coming into this league and ultimately reaching the players would have reached the players through other (less legitimate) means in a different environment, then this league is a boon for the sport because it theoretically reduces the under the table stuff and just overtly pays players.
In European football, kids as young as 14 start getting stipends from clubs and they sign contracts at 17. That system would be far better than what the US has.
Isn't this just a reshuffling of the same deck of cards, though? All you do is get kids on the "bird in the hand", take the money now, right? And then give up a non-negligible piece back if you make it in pro ball? I may be misinterpreting so happy to be corrected.
For kids that desperately need any amount of $ in their hands, I totally get that equation.
Also as a former CT resident & many Uconn alum family/friends, & part-time Uconn admirer myself. I really never got the impression that the players really connected with Kevin or liked him much. I hope he's learned from that experience. Obviously the name recognition alone is a big deal for 16 year olds.
Quote from: WarriorFan on April 12, 2021, 11:55:04 PM
If you operate on the assumption - as I do - that the "funds" coming into this league and ultimately reaching the players would have reached the players through other (less legitimate) means in a different environment, then this league is a boon for the sport because it theoretically reduces the under the table stuff and just overtly pays players.
In European football, kids as young as 14 start getting stipends from clubs and they sign contracts at 17. That system would be far better than what the US has.
Really outside of lack of NIL rights, our system is fine. I don't think there is much interest in creating a European like system here because college sports is a meaningful part of the sporting experience here.