Coaches are what they are. He is going to give you the same results he had at his high major school the last six years. No more, no less.
Texas Longhorns (Big 12 Conference) (2015–present)
2015–16 Texas 20–13 11–7 4th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2016–17 Texas 11–22 4–14 10th
2017–18 Texas 19–15 8–10 T–6th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2018–19 Texas 21–16 8–10 6th NIT Champion
2019–20 Texas 19–12 9–9 T–3rd Post-season cancelled due to pandemic
2020–21 Texas 19–8 12–6 3rd NCAA Division I Round of 64
Texas: 109–86 (.559) 52–56 (.481)
That is zero NCAA wins and a below .500 conference record.
Oh, and he was making $3.2m at Texas. So assume MU busted the bank for mediocrity when they could have gotten Moser for much less.
I look forward to you beating this drum for the next few years. And then watching you try to justify it.
Would you like your crow with a side of mayo or ketchup?
Look, I was hoping for Moser too.
But this is a very good hire.
It is .. uncomfortable .. that Texas blogs and fans are very pleased with his departure.
Funny, they posted an article to fire him .. Cracked Sidewalks posted an article to hire him, both this morning.
https://www.burntorangenation.com/2021/3/26/22351858/fire-shaka-smart-texas-longhorns-job-security-chris-del-conte
Don't the numbers speak for themselves?
Unless you fall into the "Poor Shaka's teams are the victims of bad luck" school of thought.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 26, 2021, 11:07:14 AM
I look forward to you beating this drum for the next few years. And then watching you try to justify it.
Would you like your crow with a side of mayo or ketchup?
Nope, I'm an MU fan and will root for him as hard as I can.
Just not excited today.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 26, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Coaches are what they are. He is going to give you the same results he had at his high major school the last six years. No more, no less.
Texas Longhorns (Big 12 Conference) (2015–present)
2015–16 Texas 20–13 11–7 4th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2016–17 Texas 11–22 4–14 10th
2017–18 Texas 19–15 8–10 T–6th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2018–19 Texas 21–16 8–10 6th NIT Champion
2019–20 Texas 19–12 9–9 T–3rd Post-season cancelled due to pandemic
2020–21 Texas 19–8 12–6 3rd NCAA Division I Round of 64
Texas: 109–86 (.559) 52–56 (.481)
That is zero NCAA wins and a below .500 conference record.
Oh, and he was making $3.2m at Texas. So assume MU busted the bank for mediocrity when they could have gotten Moser for much less.
While you are on the "here is what you get," can you please also provide:
1. Defensive rankings per year
2. Recruits and recruiting rankings per year.
I'd take Shaka over Moser. I truthfully thought Shaka was a pipe dream when Wojo got fired.
He plays a more exciting brand of basketball, will recruit better players and the transition will be much, much quicker. He's also been kicked in the balls at a big school, so the potential for this to be a long term play for Shaka is certainly there.
I would have been happy with Moser, but I think Shaka is more exciting.
Quote from: Coleman on March 26, 2021, 11:09:20 AM
Look, I was hoping for Moser too.
But this is a very good hire.
Why?
Justify how the job he did at Texas made him a desirable option
Quote from: MUCam on March 26, 2021, 11:10:41 AM
While you are on the "here is what you get," can you please also provide:
1. Defensive rankings per year
2. Recruits and recruiting rankings per year.
Look up Wojo's ... close enough
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 26, 2021, 11:07:14 AM
I look forward to you beating this drum for the next few years. And then watching you try to justify it.
Would you like your crow with a side of mayo or ketchup?
Why do you think he is going to give you better results than Texas?
Quote from: NolongerWarriors on March 26, 2021, 11:11:31 AM
Why?
Justify how the job he did at Texas made him a desirable option
The reasons have been explained ad nauseam on this board and by blogs like CS. You just don't want to listen. Which is fine. You do you.
I like the hire.
I knew something could get Heisy and MU82 on the same side of the table. I hope they enjoy their tea party while the rest of us party tonight.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 26, 2021, 11:11:40 AM
Look up Wojo's ... close enough
Put your feelings aside, and read the stuff that has been posted all over these boards for the last week.
Quote from: MUCam on March 26, 2021, 11:10:41 AM
While you are on the "here is what you get," can you please also provide:
1. Defensive rankings per year
2. Recruits and recruiting rankings per year.
So wins and losses don't matter as much as defensive rankings? Or recruit rankings?
Looks like Shaka underachieved with the talent he recruited. Where have we seen that before?
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 26, 2021, 11:12:28 AM
Why do you think he is going to give you better results than Texas?
Well for 1, he made 3/5 possible torunaments as opposed to Wojo's 2/6. Also won an NIT championship. Losing all 3 of his NCAA tournament games sucks, but his teams were always pretty good and the tournament is a crapshoot. Plus, let's be real, the B12 is a clear step ahead of the Big East.
The Shaka skeptics have some justification. I am going to choose optimism.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 26, 2021, 11:13:35 AM
I knew something could get Heisy and MU82 on the same side of the table. I hope they enjoy their tea party while the rest of us party tonight.
When the party is over tonight, and the team transfers and we finish behind DePaul next year ... enjoy the hang-over.
AGAIN I ASK, WHY WILL HE GIVE YOU ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN TEXAS, AND IF HE CONTINUES HIS TEXAS RECORD HERE, WILL YOU BE SATISFIED?
Quote from: tower912 on March 26, 2021, 11:15:08 AM
The Shaka skeptics have some justification. I am going to choose optimism.
You're right.
But guess what? We aren't Duke. We are't UNC. We aren't Kansas. We can't lure anyone we want. We had a few decent options. Shaka was one of them.
This is a good hire.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 26, 2021, 11:13:35 AM
I knew something could get Heisy and MU82 on the same side of the table. I hope they enjoy their tea party while the rest of us party tonight.
This is incorrect, as you'd know if you had read any of the other posts I've written since we landed Shaka.
Even the past several days, I have found myself nodding my head at the thought of a humbled Shaka realizing that the grass isn't always greener, and I've said as much in my comments. I agreed with those who said a change of scenery could benefit both Shaka and Marquette.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 26, 2021, 11:14:49 AM
Well for 1, he made 3/5 possible torunaments as opposed to Wojo's 2/6. Also won an NIT championship. Losing all 3 of his NCAA tournament games sucks, but his teams were always pretty good and the tournament is a crapshoot. Plus, let's be real, the B12 is a clear step ahead of the Big East.
He was making $3,2m at Texas. I'll assume he is getting at least that at MU. (If he took a pay cut, that would be a major red flag).
Given this money, this is your justification for hiring him? Wow, just Wow!
Maybe MU and Loyola can switch conferences. MU can go to the Valley and Loyola to the Big East.
Quote from: MU82 on March 26, 2021, 11:18:24 AM
This is incorrect, as you'd know if you had read any of the other posts I've written since we landed Shaka.
Even the past several days, I have found myself nodding my head at the thought of a humbled Shaka realizing that the grass isn't always greener, and I've said as much in my comments. I agreed with those who said a change of scenery could benefit both Shaka and Marquette.
I'm not sure it was a 'grass is greener' situation. We were a dumpster fire 7 years ago. No AD, our coach had just run to VaTech after being very successful.
The same guys that stayed on the Wojo bandwagon are unhappy with the hire, not surprising. This is a great day for the university, not just the basketball program. MU hired the right guy and I cannot wait to see him be introduced as HC.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 26, 2021, 11:14:49 AM
Well for 1, he made 3/5 possible torunaments as opposed to Wojo's 2/6. Also won an NIT championship. Losing all 3 of his NCAA tournament games sucks, but his teams were always pretty good and the tournament is a crapshoot. Plus, let's be real, the B12 is a clear step ahead of the Big East.
I'll take Moser's resume over that.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 26, 2021, 11:10:50 AM
I'd take Shaka over Moser. I truthfully thought Shaka was a pipe dream when Wojo got fired.
He plays a more exciting brand of basketball, will recruit better players and the transition will be much, much quicker. He's also been kicked in the balls at a big school, so the potential for this to be a long term play for Shaka is certainly there.
I would have been happy with Moser, but I think Shaka is more exciting.
Did people not watch his Texas teams and still think this is the VCU guy? His Texas teams were all highly ranked recruits that stood around and watched a guy create off the dribble. No ball movement, no synergy, the
opposite of exciting. On defense they didn't try to create TO's and they rebounded poorly. Literally exactly what we just fired. I'm perplexed by this "exciting" brand of basketball narrative.
Quote from: tower912 on March 26, 2021, 11:15:08 AM
The Shaka skeptics have some justification. I am going to choose optimism.
I agree. None of the choices were perfect. Not Gates, not Moser, not Shaka.
But they were all head and shoulders above the last candidate pool, Shaka notwithstanding since he said no.
Arguments could be made in favor of each one of them and against each one of them. Whining about it is silly.
Shaka was not my #1. But there is enough there to be excited.
Plus, we have no idea if Moser said no. So to whine about something we didn't even know to be a possibility is silly. We also didn't get Izzo or Pitino.
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on March 26, 2021, 11:21:52 AM
Did people not watch his Texas teams and still think this is the VCU guy? His Texas teams were all highly ranked recruits that stood around and watched a guy create off the dribble. No ball movement, no synergy, the opposite of exciting. On defense they didn't try to create TO's and they rebounded poorly. Literally exactly what we just fired. I'm perplexed by this "exciting" brand of basketball narrative.
Agree, Shaka=Wojo2.0
Again, I'm a fan of this hire but will be rooting hard for him. It is not a bad hire, a disappointing hire, an unproven coach would have been a bad hire.
There's really no reason to think
He will be better at MU than UT ...
I don't care about how a defense
Is ranked ( or offense ) ... Like 99%
Of fans I care about wins and wins in
March.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 26, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
So assume MU busted the bank for mediocrity when they could have gotten Moser for much less.
It seems this in likely untrue.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 26, 2021, 11:10:50 AM
I'd take Shaka over Moser. I truthfully thought Shaka was a pipe dream when Wojo got fired.
He plays a more exciting brand of basketball, will recruit better players and the transition will be much, much quicker. He's also been kicked in the balls at a big school, so the potential for this to be a long term play for Shaka is certainly there.
I would have been happy with Moser, but I think Shaka is more exciting.
I agree with all of this. He went the "grass is greener" route and it didn't work. And he's a monster recruiter. AND he's only two years younger than Gates, with ten times the experience and resume. This is a steal, and a home run hire.
Quote from: TSmith34 on March 26, 2021, 11:29:24 AM
It seems this in likely untrue.
could be ... but If MU was ready to go to a salary starting with a "3" or maybe higher, I feel like they could have done better.
I would be happy with a 3 seed for MU in the tournament. *shrug*
Quote from: Silent Verbal on March 26, 2021, 11:29:54 AM
I agree with all of this. He went the "grass is greener" route and it didn't work. And he's a monster recruiter. AND he's only two years younger than Gates, with ten times the experience and resume. This is a steal, and a home run hire.
I feel the same way. As the joking orignator of the "shaka to MU" thread after the ACU loss, I didn't think it was that realistic. I feel like Marquette got away with something. Hopefully that bears out on the court
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 26, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Coaches are what they are. He is going to give you the same results he had at his high major school the last six years. No more, no less.
Texas Longhorns (Big 12 Conference) (2015–present)
2015–16 Texas 20–13 11–7 4th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2016–17 Texas 11–22 4–14 10th
2017–18 Texas 19–15 8–10 T–6th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2018–19 Texas 21–16 8–10 6th NIT Champion
2019–20 Texas 19–12 9–9 T–3rd Post-season cancelled due to pandemic
2020–21 Texas 19–8 12–6 3rd NCAA Division I Round of 64
Texas: 109–86 (.559) 52–56 (.481)
That is zero NCAA wins and a below .500 conference record.
Oh, and he was making $3.2m at Texas. So assume MU busted the bank for mediocrity when they could have gotten Moser for much less.
And if you TRIPLE his combined margin of defeat in those 3 NCAA games, I think you get to the "best" loss of the Wojo era (19 points).
Wojo is, mercifully, gone. Deal with it.
So some here were willing to accept Moser's crap-ass record before 2018, but now want to ignore Shaka's success at VCU?
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 26, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Coaches are what they are. He is going to give you the same results he had at his high major school the last six years. No more, no less.
Texas Longhorns (Big 12 Conference) (2015–present)
2015–16 Texas 20–13 11–7 4th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2016–17 Texas 11–22 4–14 10th
2017–18 Texas 19–15 8–10 T–6th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2018–19 Texas 21–16 8–10 6th NIT Champion
2019–20 Texas 19–12 9–9 T–3rd Post-season cancelled due to pandemic
2020–21 Texas 19–8 12–6 3rd NCAA Division I Round of 64
Texas: 109–86 (.559) 52–56 (.481)
That is zero NCAA wins and a below .500 conference record.
Oh, and he was making $3.2m at Texas. So assume MU busted the bank for mediocrity when they could have gotten Moser for much less.
What did he do at VCU? Could he coach then?
Quote from: LastWarrior on March 26, 2021, 11:36:43 AM
What did he do at VCU? Could he coach then?
Nah, he couldn't coach then, either. He only got them to one Final Four.
Quote from: LastWarrior on March 26, 2021, 11:36:43 AM
What did he do at VCU? Could he coach then?
This is what he did at the high major level.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 26, 2021, 11:13:35 AM
I knew something could get Heisy and MU82 on the same side of the table. I hope they enjoy their tea party circle jerk while the rest of us party tonight.
Corrected. It is Heisy after all.
I prefer Moser over Shaka but in the overall grand scheme of things, I think there is less of drop next year and the potential for the same high. I would gladly take a 3 seed in the next 2 years and get upset and win a Big East title. That means we had a damn good year and didn't battle with the bottom dwellers. Plus, he has had success winning NCAA games and Championships. Some are not the ones you want to win but its better than sitting at home like we did this year.
I fully support Shaka. I think he will be successful. I think it could of been a whole lot worse where we were going on option number 4, 5 or 6. Instead we get the man the admin wanted.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 26, 2021, 11:39:34 AM
This is what he did at the high major level.
Final Four not high major level enough for you?
Quote from: MUCam on March 26, 2021, 11:23:54 AM
I agree. None of the choices were perfect. Not Gates, not Moser, not Shaka.
But they were all head and shoulders above the last candidate pool, Shaka notwithstanding since he said no.
Arguments could be made in favor of each one of them and against each one of them. Whining about it is silly.
Shaka was not my #1. But there is enough there to be excited.
Plus, we have no idea if Moser said no. So to whine about something we didn't even know to be a possibility is silly. We also didn't get Izzo or Pitino.
Agree 100% with this, and with the tower comment you highlighted.
There are valid criticisms of each candidate, and also many reasons to support each. Shaka is our coach, he brings a lot of great attributes, and I am happy to welcome him as my alma mater's coach.
We Are Marquette!
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 26, 2021, 11:10:37 AM
Nope, I'm an MU fan and will root for him as hard as I can.
Just not excited today.
Texas fans are indeed elated he is gone. Change of venue hopefully will hopefully be a positive for Shaka. I do think he can do well at MU.
It will be interesting to see how the players react.
Quote from: 79Warrior on March 26, 2021, 11:47:29 AM
Texas fans are indeed elated he is gone. Change of venue hopefully will hopefully be a positive for Shaka. I do think he can do well at MU.
It will be interesting to see how the players react.
But if you look at the history of Texas fans/boosters, the argument can be made that they are also psychotic. Expectations are WAY out of line with reality in what seems like a majority of cases.
Quote from: f/k/a humanlung on March 26, 2021, 11:50:06 AM
But if you look at the history of Texas fans/boosters, the argument can be made that they are also psychotic. Expectations are WAY out of line with reality in what seems like a majority of cases.
They are up there with IU fans in terms of "expectations to reality" measures. I imagine his happy was messed with a lot at UT.
I find it strange that so many here are hand wringing over Shaka's UT tenure while ignoring Moser's dicey record pre-2018. Like Moser, Gates, and every realistic candidate for this opening, Shaka carries some risk. He also carries sky high upside, charismatic leadership, and likely a quicker program transition.
And I'm sorry, but anybody who still supported Wojo after this season has no credibility here. I don't care if he wins five straight titles at his next HC gig, firing him will never have been the wrong decision. It was never going to work out at Marquette.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on March 26, 2021, 11:53:15 AM
They are up there with IU fans in terms of "expectations to reality" measures. I imagine his happy was messed with a lot stomped out of existence at UT.
FIFY
Quote from: TwoWords on March 26, 2021, 11:54:15 AM
I find it strange that so many here are hand wringing over Shaka's 2019 UT tenure while ignoring Moser's 2019 dicey record pre-2018. Like Moser, Gates, and every realistic candidate for this opening, Shaka carries some risk. He also carries sky high upside, charismatic leadership, and likely a quicker program transition.
And I'm sorry, but anybody who still supported Wojo after this season has no credibility here. I don't care if he wins five straight titles at his next HC gig, 2014 firing him will never have been the wrong decision. It was never going to work out at Marquette.
Can you please list the Scoopers "who still supported Wojo after this season"? I know of 3 ... maybe.
I wasn't a big fan of releasing WOJO when we did as a practical matter. It was expensive and we put some big time talent at risk.
All things considered, this feels like a good hire. Frankly, more aggressive than I thought Marquette would be and that makes this exciting, I like the program commitment. I think Shaka is a good choice to positively impact the odds of us retaining talent. I am certain he will generate some program excitement. His personality is much more dynamic that WOJO's by nature and I believe that will translate to player intensity and fan interest. Bottom line, I fully support this choice and I am excited to welcome Shaka to the Marquette family!
GO SHAKA SMART!
GO MARQUETTE!
I had also gotten on the Moser bandwagon. But looking at this as the MU AD this is a much safer hire. After 7 years of Wojo the MU brand is as weak as its been since Deane. If we strike out on this hire we are flirting with DePaul territory. While I understand the concerns with Shaka's performance in the tournament he did get to the tournament and was right there at the end. Right now even getting to the tourny would be considered success for MU. There is also a lot more to running a high major Basketball program than just winning in March. Shaka has proven he can do all those things, media relations, fund raising, dealing with rich donors, recruiting top 10 classes etc. So even if he had the exact same level of success he did at UT and 5 years from now we're frustrated with a lack of getting to the second weekend in March we still have Regular season success, BE tournament success and bottom line we've spent the last 5 years relevant. So from the risk to the program standpoint this is a MUCH SAFER hire. We just have to hope lady luck evens out for Shaka in March. I can live with that.
Is Chris Mihm happy?
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 26, 2021, 11:10:50 AM
I'd take Shaka over Moser. I truthfully thought Shaka was a pipe dream when Wojo got fired.
He plays a more exciting brand of basketball, will recruit better players and the transition will be much, much quicker. He's also been kicked in the balls at a big school, so the potential for this to be a long term play for Shaka is certainly there.
I would have been happy with Moser, but I think Shaka is more exciting.
I didn't realize that Shaka is only 43. Still relatively young.
Quote from: MU82 on March 26, 2021, 11:56:43 AM
Can you please list the Scoopers "who still supported Wojo after this season"? I know of 3 ... maybe.
LOL the ultimate straw man!
How is Shaka going to be better than what we had?
Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 26, 2021, 12:11:45 PM
I didn't realize that Shaka is only 43. Still relatively young.
Is "Shaka is only 43 years old" going to become the new "Markus Howard is only 17 years old"?
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on March 26, 2021, 12:15:01 PM
Is "Shaka is only 43 years old" going to become the new "Markus Howard is only 17 years old"?
I think "Shaka Smart, with 6 years at Texas and 6 years at VCU, would easily be the most experienced head coach Marquette has ever hired. He's still just 43" is the new version of that.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 26, 2021, 11:07:14 AM
I look forward to you beating this drum for the next few years. And then watching you try to justify it.
Would you like your crow with a side of mayo or ketchup?
I, too, am disheartened by the hire. We got rid of a guy who didn't win enough for a guy who won less (at Texas). We got rid of a guy who couldn't win an NCAA game for a guy who couldn't win an NCAA game.
As far as the eye test? Texas was an even bigger mess than MU the last few years - hard as that is to believe.
I will support him 100% and will very gladly eat crow if I am wrong, but this is a disappointing day.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 26, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Coaches are what they are. He is going to give you the same results he had at his high major school the last six years. No more, no less.
Texas Longhorns (Big 12 Conference) (2015–present)
2015–16 Texas 20–13 11–7 4th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2016–17 Texas 11–22 4–14 10th
2017–18 Texas 19–15 8–10 T–6th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2018–19 Texas 21–16 8–10 6th NIT Champion
2019–20 Texas 19–12 9–9 T–3rd Post-season cancelled due to pandemic
2020–21 Texas 19–8 12–6 3rd NCAA Division I Round of 64
Texas: 109–86 (.559) 52–56 (.481)
That is zero NCAA wins and a below .500 conference record.
Oh, and he was making $3.2m at Texas. So assume MU busted the bank for mediocrity when they could have gotten Moser for much less.
Why can't we count his VCU tournament success? If coaches are what they are, let's see all that they are.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 26, 2021, 11:19:13 AM
He was making $3,2m at Texas. I'll assume he is getting at least that at MU. (If he took a pay cut, that would be a major red flag).
Given this money, this is your justification for hiring him? Wow, just Wow!
Maybe MU and Loyola can switch conferences. MU can go to the Valley and Loyola to the Big East.
Huh?
Quote from: MU24 on March 26, 2021, 12:14:34 PM
How is Shaka going to be better than what we had?
How about making the tournament without relying on a generational scoring talent to carry the team, for starters.
I just can't believe people are complaining about this hire. Some people are just never happy and love to whine. Just glad I don't have to work with you, are a relative of you, or a friend of yours. Debbie downers. I plan to celebrate with the rest once it's official.
Quote from: f/k/a humanlung on March 26, 2021, 11:50:06 AM
But if you look at the history of Texas fans/boosters, the argument can be made that they are also psychotic. Expectations are WAY out of line with reality in what seems like a majority of cases.
And the last coach that Texas was happy to get rid of as a "crappy coach" has done pretty well for himself since.
I wouldn't judge a coach by his performance at Texas and/or the opinion of Texas fans/boosters.
Quote from: tower912 on March 26, 2021, 11:15:08 AM
The Shaka skeptics have some justification. I am going to choose optimism.
It's done, and I agree.
Quote from: MU82 on March 26, 2021, 11:56:43 AM
Can you please list the Scoopers "who still supported Wojo after this season"? I know of 3 ... maybe.
I won't give them the attention they crave. We all know who I'm talking about.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 26, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Coaches are what they are. He is going to give you the same results he had at his high major school the last six years. No more, no less.
Texas Longhorns (Big 12 Conference) (2015–present)
2015–16 Texas 20–13 11–7 4th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2016–17 Texas 11–22 4–14 10th
2017–18 Texas 19–15 8–10 T–6th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2018–19 Texas 21–16 8–10 6th NIT Champion
2019–20 Texas 19–12 9–9 T–3rd Post-season cancelled due to pandemic
2020–21 Texas 19–8 12–6 3rd NCAA Division I Round of 64
Texas: 109–86 (.559) 52–56 (.481)
That is zero NCAA wins and a below .500 conference record.
Oh, and he was making $3.2m at Texas. So assume MU busted the bank for mediocrity when they could have gotten Moser for much less.
I don't believe this. People can thrive in different environments despite struggling at others. People also continue to grow and improve. Will Shaka be better here than Texas? Remains to be seen but there are enough differences that it's worth giving the guy a fair shot.
Quote from: Farley36 on March 26, 2021, 01:03:14 PM
I don't believe this. People can thrive in different environments despite struggling at others. People also continue to grow and improve. Will Shaka be better here than Texas? Remains to be seen but there are enough differences that it's worth giving the guy a fair shot.
Yeah, I'm going to give Shaka time to show us if he is the guy. Just like stocks past performance does not predict the future. If he can recruit as good as Wojo and he can, but get those recruits to execute plays and improve each season will have success.
I'm just enjoying that for now it seems like the Projos and Nojos were dumped into a bucket, shaken up, and put on different sides of the Smarters/Dumbers debate.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 26, 2021, 01:30:40 PM
I'm just enjoying that for now it seems like the Projos and Nojos were dumped into a bucket, shaken up, and put on different sides of the Smarters/Dumbers debate.
Exactly
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on March 26, 2021, 11:12:28 AM
Why do you think he is going to give you better results than Texas?
I think playing Depaul, who Marquette has struggled with recently, instead of Kansas twice a year will help Shaka bolster his results. If the results are the same and Marquette wins the Big East Tournament and earns a 3 seed, I will be more than pleased.
Quote from: ZiggysChestHair on March 26, 2021, 01:49:37 PM
I think playing Depaul, who Marquette has struggled with recently, instead of Kansas twice a year will help Shaka bolster his results. If the results are the same and Marquette wins the Big East Tournament and earns a 3 seed, I will be more than pleased.
To be fair Villanova 2x a year is probably equal to Kansas 2x a year
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 26, 2021, 01:30:40 PM
I'm just enjoying that for now it seems like the Projos and Nojos were dumped into a bucket, shaken up, and put on different sides of the Smarters/Dumbers debate.
You mean people are allowed to have different opinions on different matters?
Quote from: ZiggysChestHair on March 26, 2021, 01:49:37 PM
If the results are the same and Marquette wins the Big East Tournament and earns a 3 seed, I will be more than pleased.
Yeah...we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that "no NCAA wins" wasn't the only mark against Wojo...at least for me. It was the
total humiliation in the tournament
along with late season collapses and lackluster performances in the BET.
Quote from: tower912 on March 26, 2021, 11:15:08 AM
The Shaka skeptics have some justification. I am going to choose optimism.
For once I agree with Tower.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 26, 2021, 01:30:40 PM
I'm just enjoying that for now it seems like the Projos and Nojos were dumped into a bucket, shaken up, and put on different sides of the Smarters/Dumbers debate.
Smarters/Dumbers ... love it.
Hell, I've been on both sides of both debates, and I admit it.
Happy to support our new coach. We Are Marquette!
Quote from: NolongerWarriors on March 26, 2021, 11:21:43 AM
I'll take Moser's resume over that.
2 ncaa tournaments in 17 years?
Somebody pointed this out and I'm going to say it again.
All of us -- or at least most of us -- have been in at least one job where we don't fit well with the culture, environment etc. Wasn't necessary a bad hire, but nobody saw that it was a bad fit.
My view is that was Texas and Shaka.
He's back to Marquette where he probably should have been seven years ago. He likely learned from his mistakes at Texas (like we all do) and has grown as a basketball coach. Will he make mistakes here -- of course. But what I like about him is he is a proven recruiter and has a past history. Keep in mind that the Big 12 had some tough competition in Texas Tech, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State during his tenure in Texas.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 26, 2021, 03:11:46 PM
Somebody pointed this out and I'm going to say it again.
All of us -- or at least most of us -- have been in at least one job where we don't fit well with the culture, environment etc. Wasn't necessary a bad hire, but nobody saw that it was a bad fit.
My view is that was Texas and Shaka.
He's back to Marquette where he probably should have been seven years ago. He likely learned from his mistakes at Texas (like we all do) and has grown as a basketball coach. Will he make mistakes here -- of course. But what I like about him is he is a proven recruiter and has a past history. Keep in mind that the Big 12 had some tough competition in Texas Tech, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State during his tenure in Texas.
'right guy, wrong job' happens all the time. Sometimes there is clear blame on one side or the other, sometimes it just wasn't the right move for either.....Shaka/TU very much feels like the latter.
Quote from: YaBlueIt on March 26, 2021, 12:28:06 PM
How about making the tournament without relying on a generational scoring talent to carry the team, for starters.
This is an excellent point.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 26, 2021, 03:11:46 PM
Somebody pointed this out and I'm going to say it again.
All of us -- or at least most of us -- have been in at least one job where we don't fit well with the culture, environment etc. Wasn't necessary a bad hire, but nobody saw that it was a bad fit.
My view is that was Texas and Shaka.
He's back to Marquette where he probably should have been seven years ago. He likely learned from his mistakes at Texas (like we all do) and has grown as a basketball coach. Will he make mistakes here -- of course. But what I like about him is he is a proven recruiter and has a past history. Keep in mind that the Big 12 had some tough competition in Texas Tech, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State during his tenure in Texas.
And the nice benefit of this is that had he taken Marquette the first time, he might have had his eye on his next stop. But he's been to that next stop, and he now knows it's not for him.
If the penalty for that was the Wojo Era, it will have been a small price to pay if Shaka delivers big over the next decade or two.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 26, 2021, 02:04:11 PM
Yeah...we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that "no NCAA wins" wasn't the only mark against Wojo...at least for me. It was the total humiliation in the tournament along with late season collapses and lackluster performances in the BET.
Number of 15+ point losses per year:
Smart (Texas)
2015-2016: 1 (vs. 1 ranked team)
2016-2017: 3 (1 ranked)
2017-2018: 2 (1 ranked)
2018-2019: 1 (1 ranked)
2019-2020: 6 (2 ranked)
2020-2021: 0
Total: 13 (6 vs. ranked opponents, or 46.2%)
Wojo (MU)
2015-2016: 7 (2 ranked)
2016-2017: 2 (0 ranked)
2017-2018: 5 (3 ranked)
2018-2019: 2 (0 ranked)
2019-2020: 3 (1 ranked)
2020-2021: 4 (2 ranked)
Total: 23 (8 vs. ranked opponents, or 34.8%)
I might have a "15+ point loss" in the wrong year for MU due to the NCAA Tournament debacles but the totals are right.
Not only did MU have far more blowout losses than Texas under Smart (23 to 13), but the quality of the opponent was far lower as well (34.8% of losses to ranked teams vs. 46.2% for Texas).
This isn't a perfect analysis but I would bet my last $1.00 that it is directionally correct even if looked at in greater detail.
Quote from: f/k/a humanlung on March 26, 2021, 04:16:09 PM
Number of 15+ point losses per year:
Smart (Texas)
2015-2016: 1 (vs. 1 ranked team)
2016-2017: 3 (1 ranked)
2017-2018: 2 (1 ranked)
2018-2019: 1 (1 ranked)
2019-2020: 6 (2 ranked)
2020-2021: 0
Total: 13 (6 vs. ranked opponents, or 46.2%)
Wojo (MU)
2015-2016: 7 (2 ranked)
2016-2017: 2 (0 ranked)
2017-2018: 5 (3 ranked)
2018-2019: 2 (0 ranked)
2019-2020: 3 (1 ranked)
2020-2021: 4 (2 ranked)
Total: 23 (8 vs. ranked opponents, or 34.8%)
I might have a "15+ point loss" in the wrong year for MU due to the NCAA Tournament debacles but the totals are right.
Not only did MU have far more blowout losses than Texas under Smart (23 to 13), but the quality of the opponent was far lower as well (34.8% of losses to ranked teams vs. 46.2% for Texas).
This isn't a perfect analysis but I would bet my last $1.00 that it is directionally correct even if looked at in greater detail.
Put this on the list as well....
Shaka Smart has 18 top 100 recruits in the past 6 years
His 3 tourney losses with Texas have been by a combined 8 points
Marquette's 2 tournament losses under Wojo were by a combined 39 points
Quote from: Coleman on March 26, 2021, 11:09:20 AM
Look, I was hoping for Moser too.
But this is a very good hire.
Never was going to be Moser. Not after the Scholl press conference last week.
Quote from: Autoengineer on March 26, 2021, 04:25:41 PM
Never was going to be Moser. Not after the Scholl press conference last week.
That's not accurate.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 26, 2021, 04:18:19 PM
His 3 tourney losses with Texas have been by a combined 8 points
Marquette's 2 tournament losses under Wojo were by a combined 39 points
I'm on board with Shaka, but the point differentials on these games can tell all kinds of things. For example, many intelligent people believe that winning or losing close games is directly affected by the quality of the coach. For another, need to look at the opponents.
Two of Shaka's NCAAT losses were to a Northern Iowa team with zero pro prospects; and a 14th-seeded Abilene Christian team with few if any players who could have cracked a P5 roster.
Wojo's NCAAT losses were to a South Carolina team that got to play at home, that went on to play in the Final Four, and that included 3 future NBA players; and a Murray State team that included the following season's NBA Rookie of the Year.
I'm not excusing Wojo's decisive losses and not throwing shade on Shaka's narrow defeats, but it's not apples to apples to talk about the point differentials.
Quote from: MU82 on March 26, 2021, 04:28:21 PM
I'm on board with Shaka, but the point differentials on these games can tell all kinds of things. For example, many intelligent people believe that winning or losing close games is directly affected by the quality of the coach. For another, need to look at the opponents.
Two of Shaka's NCAAT losses were to a Northern Iowa team with zero pro prospects; and a 14th-seeded Abilene Christian team with few if any players who could have cracked a P5 roster.
Wojo's NCAAT losses were to a South Carolina team that got to play at home, that went on to play in the Final Four, and that included 3 future NBA players; and a Murray State team that included the following season's NBA Rookie of the Year.
I'm not excusing Wojo's decisive losses and not throwing shade on Shaka's narrow defeats, but it's not apples to apples to talk about the point differentials.
MU, I hear what you're saying but I disagree to a large extent.
We got smoked in the regular season by some utterly crap BE yeans like DePaul and St. John's, to name two. Both of these were WITH Marcus. Scoring differentials are not the end-all-be-all but they do matter, imo.
Quote from: f/k/a humanlung on March 26, 2021, 04:33:25 PM
MU, I hear what you're saying but I disagree to a large extent.
We got smoked in the regular season by some utterly crap BE yeans like DePaul and St. John's, to name two. Both of these were WITH Marcus. Scoring differentials are not the end-all-be-all but they do matter, imo.
Yes, you know you're not a good coach when Dave Leitao owns you.
Quote from: f/k/a humanlung on March 26, 2021, 04:33:25 PM
MU, I hear what you're saying but I disagree to a large extent.
We got smoked in the regular season by some utterly crap BE yeans like DePaul and St. John's, to name two. Both of these were WITH Marcus. Scoring differentials are not the end-all-be-all but they do matter, imo.
And - stating the obvious here - it just really sucks to get your ass kicked.
Wasn't high on Shaka after the Donedeal fiasco and his job in TX. Certainly wish him well, and certainly can't argue that he is more experienced than the other two presumptive hires that got a lot of attention here.
The big event happened March 19th. We could have hired a ham sandwich and we'd still be better off than we were on March 18th.
Good luck, Shaka.
Quote from: Farley36 on March 26, 2021, 01:53:51 PM
You mean people are allowed to have different opinions on different matters?
Did I say anything different? Im genuinely enjoying this.