Interesting read here, with lots of similarities between Maryland under Turgeon and MU under Wojo. I lived in DC for several years and so paid attention to the Terps.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/03/23/maryland-basketball-tradition/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/03/23/maryland-basketball-tradition/)
Quote from: mug644 on March 24, 2021, 06:34:54 AM
Interesting read here, with lots of similarities between Maryland under Turgeon and MU under Wojo. I lived in DC for several years and so paid attention to the Terps.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/03/23/maryland-basketball-tradition/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/03/23/maryland-basketball-tradition/)
The move to the Big 14 hurt them for basketball. I don't care about the financial rewards they got. The program was built in the ACC and built playing against Tobacco Road. In the Big 14, they're just another team with no natural rivals. Sure, playing Michigan State might be a big deal but it doesn't remotely approach Duke or UNC.
Quote from: mug644 on March 24, 2021, 06:34:54 AM
Interesting read here, with lots of similarities between Maryland under Turgeon and MU under Wojo. I lived in DC for several years and so paid attention to the Terps.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/03/23/maryland-basketball-tradition/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/03/23/maryland-basketball-tradition/)
Turgeon is Wojo without the mid season collapses.
I agree, Rico. It's not surprising that the money from football and the possibility of being and staying at the top of a conference in basketball (compared to perpetually being behind at least Duke and UNC) led them to make the move to the Big 10/14. But it has impacted their basketball program.
Quote from: mug644 on March 24, 2021, 06:48:30 AM
I agree, Rico. It's not surprising that the money from football and the possibility of being and staying at the top of a conference in basketball (compared to perpetually being behind at least Duke and UNC) led them to make the move to the Big 10/14. But it has impacted their basketball program.
They had a lot of basketball success chasing Tobacco Road teams and using them as foils. It's a shame what the hoops program has become. I'd be frustrated as a Georgetown fan, too. Now is a chance to own that market
Someone (82?) asked if people would take Turgeon. While he wouldn't be at the top of my list, if we could've traded Wojo for Turgeon straight up, I'd have done that any day of the week. I feel like at Marquette, Wojo's ceiling was what Turgeon is at Maryland. Consistent enough to make the Tournament most of the time, and maybe 1-2 teams per decade that can make a run.
That program has fallen a long way since the peak of the Williams days. Man, those teams with Dixon, Baxter, and Blake were awesome.
As a parent of a Terp graduate, I have attended games in the past and have followed them for many years.
Turgeon is basically like Wojo, but he never had a losing record and were competitive. A few years ago, they were ranked pre season #2, won two games in NCAA and then got blasted in a Sweet Sixteen game. Thats it. Win one game, then they are out. He was in big pressure situation earlier in the year with a bad start, then had a good winning streak to deflect more criticism. The blowout loss has not helped though.
Last year the Covid cancellation hurt them. They won the regular season Big Ten and along with Ayayla, Wiggins, Scott and Morsell they had Anthony Cowan and Jalen Smith. Maybe would have been different, but never know.
The DMV is fertile with outstanding players and Turgeon only on occasion gets the best players I the region. The list of players is way too long, but Justin Lewis was one of them. Then again, Georgetown has also not recruited well in the region.
Next year will be important for Turgeon, believe its year 11 or 12.
Far as Maryland moving to Big Ten, the money was astronomical. They recently built an Under Armour Fitness Center in the old Cole Field Center location and it is a state of the art facility and well, ridiculous. The biggest effect of the move was the Football program, which has stunk to high heavens. Being in a division with Michigan, OSU, PSU, and MSU has been brutal and Locksley has just started recruiting some big time players. Attendance at the games stink.
Men's and women's soccer and lacrosse are still one of the best programs in the country.
I really miss Maryland in the old ACC and the rivalries of those years. Hated the move to the Big Ten.
Just as it was a no-brainer for Syracuse to move to the ACC, it was a no-brainer for Maryland to move to the B14. As nyg, the $$$ was simply too much. You don't reject that because it might or might not hurt your basketball program in the short term.
Also as nyg says, last year's Maryland team was very strong - on the 3-seed line with Duke and Michigan State - and could have made a very nice run. We'll never know.
I hope we can do better than Turgeon but like brewski, I'd have traded Wojo for Turgeon in a heartbeat.
Quote from: MU82 on March 24, 2021, 07:12:59 AM
Just as it was a no-brainer for Syracuse to move to the ACC, it was a no-brainer for Maryland to move to the B14. As nyg, the $$$ was simply too much. You don't reject that because it might or might not hurt your basketball program in the short term.
Also as nyg says, last year's Maryland team was very strong - on the 3-seed line with Duke and Michigan State - and could have made a very nice run. We'll never know.
I hope we can do better than Turgeon but like brewski, I'd have traded Wojo for Turgeon in a heartbeat.
Adding programs for TV subscriptions will always be dumb in my book. The fact that Ohio State and Michigan aren't playing at UW-Madison or Iowa every other year in football is dumb. This holds true in the SEC and ACC, too. Ask Michigan fans of having Rutgers and Maryland at Michigan Stadium every other year versus the aforementioned schools was a worthwhile trade. Heck, I know plenty of UW fans that hate their home schedule, too.
I know Syracuse is in the Sweet 16, but as time fades, they become less of a national program in the ACC versus having been in the Big East. In the ACC, there haven't been any rivalries developed and they'll never become the new Maryland to teams on Tobacco Road.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 24, 2021, 07:38:52 AM
Adding programs for TV subscriptions will always be dumb in my book. The fact that Ohio State and Michigan aren't playing at UW-Madison or Iowa every other year in football is dumb. This holds true in the SEC and ACC, too. Ask Michigan fans of having Rutgers and Maryland at Michigan Stadium every other year versus the aforementioned schools was a worthwhile trade. Heck, I know plenty of UW fans that hate their home schedule, too.
I know Syracuse is in the Sweet 16, but as time fades, they become less of a national program in the ACC versus having been in the Big East. In the ACC, there haven't been any rivalries developed and they'll never become the new Maryland to teams on Tobacco Road.
And yet 100K+ will show up for Michigan's home games vs Rutgers and Maryland.
I do understand what you are saying about Maryland, Syracuse and others who find themselves in similar situations, but I'm also a realist. It was too much $$$ for those schools to turn down.
Quote from: MU82 on March 24, 2021, 07:59:38 AM
And yet 100K+ will show up for Michigan's home games vs Rutgers and Maryland.
I do understand what you are saying about Maryland, Syracuse and others who find themselves in similar situations, but I'm also a realist. It was too much $$$ for those schools to turn down.
"It was about the kids".
Btw, Maryland's Under Armor alum has also done very well in the B1G.
Turgeon is squirmy and is nothing like Wojo, including being a nice guy.
Quote from: nyg on March 24, 2021, 07:07:20 AM
As a parent of a Terp graduate, I have attended games in the past and have followed them for many years.
Turgeon is basically like Wojo, but he never had a losing record and were competitive. A few years ago, they were ranked pre season #2, won two games in NCAA and then got blasted in a Sweet Sixteen game. Thats it. Win one game, then they are out. He was in big pressure situation earlier in the year with a bad start, then had a good winning streak to deflect more criticism. The blowout loss has not helped though.
Last year the Covid cancellation hurt them. They won the regular season Big Ten and along with Ayayla, Wiggins, Scott and Morsell they had Anthony Cowan and Jalen Smith. Maybe would have been different, but never know.
The DMV is fertile with outstanding players and Turgeon only on occasion gets the best players I the region. The list of players is way too long, but Justin Lewis was one of them. Then again, Georgetown has also not recruited well in the region.
Next year will be important for Turgeon, believe its year 11 or 12.
Far as Maryland moving to Big Ten, the money was astronomical. They recently built an Under Armour Fitness Center in the old Cole Field Center location and it is a state of the art facility and well, ridiculous. The biggest effect of the move was the Football program, which has stunk to high heavens. Being in a division with Michigan, OSU, PSU, and MSU has been brutal and Locksley has just started recruiting some big time players. Attendance at the games stink.
Men's and women's soccer and lacrosse are still one of the best programs in the country.
I really miss Maryland in the old ACC and the rivalries of those years. Hated the move to the Big Ten.
Agreed, that team was pretty damn good. Mopped the floor with us.
Quote from: MU82 on March 24, 2021, 07:59:38 AM
And yet 100K+ will show up for Michigan's home games vs Rutgers and Maryland.
I do understand what you are saying about Maryland, Syracuse and others who find themselves in similar situations, but I'm also a realist. It was too much $$$ for those schools to turn down.
Eh, I'm not sure about them showing up anymore
As a kid I went to the Lefty Driesell University of Maryland basketball camp at the old Cole Field House. Actually had Bernard Toone as a camp counselor. A lot of fun. Maryland is ACC all the way. Similar to Maryland, Nebraska's move to the BIG14 is a $ play. I would, however, take Turgeon over Woj, hindsight 20/20.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 24, 2021, 08:07:03 AM
"It was about the kids".
Btw, Maryland's Under Armor alum has also done very well in the B1G.
Turgeon is squirmy and is nothing like Wojo, including being a nice guy.
Turg is absolutely a dickface.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 24, 2021, 08:51:37 AM
Eh, I'm not sure about them showing up anymore
In 2019, the last non-pandemic year, Michigan averaged 111K at its home games. But sure, maybe fans are so disillusioned about what the program has become under Harbaugh that The Big House will be half-empty next season even if there aren't pandemic restrictions.
Quote from: MU82 on March 24, 2021, 01:47:54 PM
In 2019, the last non-pandemic year, Michigan averaged 111K at its home games. But sure, maybe fans are so disillusioned about what the program has become under Harbaugh that The Big House will be half-empty next season even if there aren't pandemic restrictions.
They also sold over 91K season tickets that year (that includes 20K student tickets0. UM doesn't use a waiting list but rather an "interest list" and that is large. If alumni and longtime season ticket holders start to bail there are plenty of non-alumni who will gladly buy tickets.
Quote from: MU82 on March 24, 2021, 01:47:54 PM
In 2019, the last non-pandemic year, Michigan averaged 111K at its home games. But sure, maybe fans are so disillusioned about what the program has become under Harbaugh that The Big House will be half-empty next season even if there aren't pandemic restrictions.
I can just go off what I'm told. There are a lot of disinterested parties at a lot of Big 14 schools that aren't interested in 4 hour games against the dregs of the league.
Got a buddy who's a Maryland fan. Still says all the time he still thinks of them as an ACC team.
Last 7 years for Turgeon, 5 tourneys, would've been 6 with COVID, won a game 3 times, likely 4 with COVID, made Sweet 16 once, 11 in Pomeroy with COVID, so likely would've been seeded to make a 2nd one.
That's a half-a-notch below what I see as expectations at MU - make tourney almost every year, win tourney game most times when make it, make 2nd weekend once or twice per class, threat for deep/real deep advance once per class.
Wojo was about 3 levels below expectations at MU.
Quote from: Eye on March 24, 2021, 09:20:40 PM
Got a buddy who's a Maryland fan. Still says all the time he still thinks of them as an ACC team.
Last 7 years for Turgeon, 5 tourneys, would've been 6 with COVID, won a game 3 times, likely 4 with COVID, made Sweet 16 once, 11 in Pomeroy with COVID, so likely would've been seeded to make a 2nd one.
That's a half-a-notch below what I see as expectations at MU - make tourney almost every year, win tourney game most times when make it, make 2nd weekend once or twice per class, threat for deep/real deep advance once per class.
Wojo was about 3 levels below expectations at MU.
Agree with all of this
Maryland had financial problems so they felt compelled to take the Big Ten offer. Rutgers had been courting the Big Ten for years , and got lucky to be paired with Maryland for admission.
Maryland fans were unhappy about moving to the Big Ten at the time and still are not pleased with it. The natural rivalries within the ACC were long term in Nature. Rutgers on the other hand loved moving to the Big Ten and is now making the most of it.
As for Wojo being the same as Turgeon, I don't think so. Wojo several levels below Turgeon in terms of performance.
So, if MU had invested in football like ND and BC would our basketball program be as successful over the years as it has been without football?
Maryland in the B1G is like MU in the Big East.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on March 25, 2021, 08:34:08 AM
So, if MU had invested in football like ND and BC would our basketball program be as successful over the years as it has been without football?
Maryland in the B1G is like MU in the Big East.
Since Marquette won its 1977 National title 44 years ago...
Final Fours:
Marquette 1
Notre Dame 1
Elite 8's
Marquette 2
Notre Dame 4
Sweet 16's
Marquette 6
Notre Dame 7
NCAA appearances
Marquette 21
Notre Dame 22
All time:
NCAA Titles
Marquette 1
Notre Dame 0
Final Fours
Marquette 3
Notre Dame 1
Elite 8
Marquette 7
Notre Dame 7
Sweet 16
Marquette 16
Notre Dame 17
NCAA Appearances
Marquette 33
Notre Dame 36
Quote from: muwarrior69 on March 25, 2021, 08:34:08 AM
So, if MU had invested in football like ND and BC would our basketball program be as successful over the years as it has been without football?
Maryland in the B1G is like MU in the Big East.
I think giving up Football was a big mistake. As was giving up the Medical School.
Bingo, Bro. Sometime I'll share my anecdotal ride to campus with Lisle "Liz" Blackburn just before MU dropped the bomb at the end of the '60 f-ball season.
Quote from: shoothoops on March 25, 2021, 08:55:32 AM
Since Marquette won its 1977 National title 44 years ago...
Final Fours:
Marquette 1
Notre Dame 1
Elite 8's
Marquette 2
Notre Dame 4
Sweet 16's
Marquette 6
Notre Dame 7
NCAA appearances
Marquette 21
Notre Dame 22
All time:
NCAA Titles
Marquette 1
Notre Dame 0
Final Fours
Marquette 3
Notre Dame 1
Elite 8
Marquette 7
Notre Dame 7
Sweet 16
Marquette 16
Notre Dame 17
NCAA Appearances
Marquette 33
Notre Dame 36
Thanks, about equal but what about BC. Wojo years really hurt us.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 24, 2021, 02:26:30 PM
I can just go off what I'm told. There are a lot of disinterested parties at a lot of Big 14 schools that aren't interested in 4 hour games against the dregs of the league.
that is one of the reasons my dad gave up his football tickets.
"I's pay to see us playing Purdue, Wisconsin, and Iowa like when I was in school, not Rutgers and Maryland."
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on March 25, 2021, 01:41:51 PM
that is one of the reasons my dad gave up his football tickets.
"I's pay to see us playing Purdue, Wisconsin, and Iowa like when I was in school, not Rutgers and Maryland."
My four years at MU Wisconsin won only one game.