MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on March 19, 2021, 06:17:56 PM
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Instead of candidates, what attributes do you want a coach to have?
Here is my list:
**Understanding of current analytics related to how the game is played. Emphasis on shooting, lack of turnovers, etc.
**Play with pace.
**Recruit nationwide but need to win back the local recruiting scene.
I would love Nate Oats. Absolutely love the way his teams play. But that's not realistic. Give me someone LIKE Oats. I don't know who that is though.
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I liked what Scholl said about having a clear philosophy on both sides of the ball and recruiting players to fit that philosophy and “not just chasing every 5 star.” So, I will go with that one. It felt likes Wojo’s teams always lacked an identity.
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I liked what Scholl said about having a clear philosophy on both sides of the ball and recruiting players to fit that philosophy and “not just chasing every 5 star.” So, I will go with that one. It felt likes Wojo’s teams always lacked an identity.
Great one. Exactly. This IMO is a problem that Wojo had.
Glad that's what Scholl said. I am optimistic he will conduct a thorough search.
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Head coaching experience
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Agree with both of you - analytics and having a system/philosophy as well as recruiting to that rather than BPA
I would also add a coach who has demonstrated an ability to consistently make a team perform greater than the sum of its parts.
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Instead of candidates, what attributes do you want a coach to have?
Here is my list:
**Understanding of current analytics related to how the game is played. Emphasis on shooting, lack of turnovers, etc.
**Play with pace.
**Recruit nationwide but need to win back the local recruiting scene.
I would love Nate Oats. Absolutely love the way his teams play. But that's not realistic. Give me someone LIKE Oats. I don't know who that is though.
I’m big on that as well. Watching Bama, Gonzaga, Arkansas, Illinois, and Baylor on offense this year has been great.
That’s honestly my biggest concern about Moser. He’s a great coach, but Loyola has been outside of the bottom 10% in the country in pace once in his tenure. And I think they were #295 that year.
Same issue with Ritchie McKay at Liberty.
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Agree with everything mentioned so far.
1. Clear identity on both sides of the ball. A coach who knows what systems he wants to run and recruits and develops players specifically for it. But also has the ability to make slight adjustments in game when needed.
2. More local recruiting. Im not saying the entire roster needs to be local, but start there. I need to find the article again, but i recently read the likelihood of a kid transferring out is also significantly reduced if they are from in state or a border state. So for us, get after it in wi, ill, mn.
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I want a guy with prior head coaching experience who’s proven he can build a winner at his own program. If he’s a mid-major coach, I’d like for him to have at least two NCAA appearances and have been his conference’s COY at least once. Ideally, he’ll have a diverse resume where he’s coached at the head or assistant level at a few different schools.
And if he’s charismatic and gives good interviews, that’d be one hell of a change of pace.
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Head coaching experience
This ... when was the last time MU made a "lateral" hire?
* Either MU hired a promoted assistant (Hank, Majerus, O'Neill, Crean, Buzz, Wojo)
* Or a MU hired a promoted "mid-major" head coach (Al, Dukiet, Deane).
Time for a high-major coach that has things on his resume that we want now (like high major Championships, Multiple S16 appearances, and maybe a FF)
That high major coach with a resume can be someone that is currently not coaching, LIKE Beilein, Madda, Lavin, etc.
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Getting a young up and coming assistant has worked 2/3 times for us in the past 20 years. If you can locate that next big thing just before he pops would be great.
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Lavin? He was awful at SJU.
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Lavin? He was awful at SJU.
Not UCLA
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No Duke ties would be a good start
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That high major coach with a resume can be someone that is currently not coaching, LIKE Beilein, Madda, Lavin, etc.
RESUME NO MADDA
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Not UCLA
So we should overlook the terrible job he did just a few years ago and focus on the job he was fired from 18 years ago?
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I don't really care about the coach knowing analytics, but I want him/her to appreciate analytics and know to hire an analytics person if he/she needs to.
I think Marquette fans mostly desire a charismatic person. And I can get on board with that. Someone that can relate to players/recruits too though, not just us old dudes.
But also has to be a good manager, and have self awareness of his/her strengths and weaknesses. If this person is great at offense or defense, great. If they knows nothing about hoops, but surround themselves with people that can help, also great.
Now that I've said all that. I'm definitely against someone too into analytics themselves.
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Very unsophisticated rocky. What if our new coaches pronoun is “they” and is drag? I expected more sympathy and understanding from you.
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I really feel like Marquette had established a national brand of basketball (toughness, hustle, defense, etc.) and Wojo completely changed our brand. I want the next coach to understand the Warrior brand of basketball and bring it back. I want teams to know that while they might be more talented they’re going to earn everything they get against us.
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Very unsophisticated rocky. What if our new coaches pronoun is “they” and is drag? I expected more sympathy and understanding from you.
If they/them can win a National Championship at Marquette, I'll take them!
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I really feel like Marquette had established a national brand of basketball (toughness, hustle, defense, etc.) and Wojo completely changed our brand. I want the next coach to understand the Warrior brand of basketball and bring it back. I want teams to know that while they might be more talented they’re going to earn everything they get against us.
I could care less about brand as long as they're winning
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;)
If they/them can win a National Championship at Marquette, I'll take them!
;) Touche
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I don't really care about the coach knowing analytics, but I want him/her to appreciate analytics and know to hire an analytics person if he/she needs to.
Analytics does not mean you hire someone to produce analytics. Too many boomers do this and this flat out does not work.
Analytics is an approach to coaching where the entire program is oriented around analytics.
Analytics can work but almost no one does it correctly ... Too many think Rocky's explanation of analytics is how it is done, and why so few do it correctly.
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I liked what Scholl said about having a clear philosophy on both sides of the ball and recruiting players to fit that philosophy and “not just chasing every 5 star.” So, I will go with that one. It felt likes Wojo’s teams always lacked an identity.
Agree and this could be the 'philosophical differences' he talked about in his discussions with Wojo these past couple of weeks.
I know many don't care about this but Scholl also talked about how character was important in not having to worry about what's going on in the program, knowing the kids were quality people, and helping the institution as a whole.
2. More local recruiting. Im not saying the entire roster needs to be local, but start there. I need to find the article again, but i recently read the likelihood of a kid transferring out is also significantly reduced if they are from in state or a border state. So for us, get after it in wi, ill, mn.
I honestly don't understand why this is important. Have we not done well enough in WI and MN over the last 3 coaches? Is this more important for fans who live in WI because they hear it from UW folks? Is there a correlation between winning percentage and miles from campus the average player is?
But also has to be a good manager, and have self awareness of his/her strengths and weaknesses. If this person is great at offense or defense, great. If they knows nothing about hoops, but surround themselves with people that can help, also great.
100% this.... in addition to all of the attributes in the PaintTouches breakdown of candidates.
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I really feel like Marquette had established a national brand of basketball (toughness, hustle, defense, etc.) and Wojo completely changed our brand. I want the next coach to understand the Warrior brand of basketball and bring it back. I want teams to know that while they might be more talented they’re going to earn everything they get against us.
Yuck. No more teams that can’t shoot straight.
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Agree and this could be the 'philosophical differences' he talked about in his discussions with Wojo these past couple of weeks.
I know many don't care about this but Scholl also talked about how character was important in not having to worry about what's going on in the program, knowing the kids were quality people, and helping the institution as a whole.
I honestly don't understand why this is important. Have we not done well enough in WI and MN over the last 3 coaches? Is this more important for fans who live in WI because they hear it from UW folks? Is there a correlation between winning percentage and miles from campus the average player is?100% this.... in addition to all of the attributes in the PaintTouches breakdown of candidates.
I care about the local recruiting simply because IMO those are easier wins. And Wojo screwed up some of the local relationships.
Buzz did great in this regard. Had some great local talent. But they also maintained a nationwide footprint.
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The ability to win while recruiting good kids and following the rules.
I want to win, but I don't want to read about the team on arrest reports or in NCAA investigations.
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I care about the local recruiting simply because IMO those are easier wins. And Wojo screwed up some of the local relationships.
Buzz did great in this regard. Had some great local talent. But they also maintained a nationwide footprint.
This feels so much less important for a private school than a big state school like Bucky.
Unless someone grew up in Milwaukee proper or had a parent that went to Marquette, not a lot of kids have pre built relationships with MU.
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Like others have said. Some semblance of an identity would be nice. Wojo just couldn't do that. Just constantly chasing and accommodating the needs of "stars".
Watching this Winthrop, Nova game, they just highlighted the Winthrop player putting on 20+ lbs of muscle. Nova's guys are all jacked. I don't know what instruction Wojo gave Todd Smith, but the physical development of players over the past 7 years has been non-existent. I'm sure they made some gains, but it seems like Wojo had Todd de-emphasize muscle building as it might have been a detriment to their shooting or something. That or he just would rather them spend an hour on the gun vs in the weight room. Kids with muscles like to throw them around. The teams of the last seven years struggled with physicality (minus Theo who had some natural stuff going on). So I'd like a coach who understands the physicality of the game and that it takes more than grit and hustle to get the job done.
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I've been harping on that S&C point for awhile. I know they want to build athleticism, but it shouldn't be one or the other.
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Instead of candidates, what attributes do you want a coach to have?
Here is my list:
**Understanding of current analytics related to how the game is played. Emphasis on shooting, lack of turnovers, etc.
**Play with pace.
**Recruit nationwide but need to win back the local recruiting scene.
I would love Nate Oats. Absolutely love the way his teams play. But that's not realistic. Give me someone LIKE Oats. I don't know who that is though.
Safe to assume Moser isn’t very high on your list?
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I've been harping on that S&C point for awhile. I know they want to build athleticism, but it shouldn't be one or the other.
Yeah, I'd like to hear how Todd's side of it works. He seems like he knows his stuff and stays current from following him on twitter. Was he just taking guidance from Wojo on how he wants his players built or is he following some principles he believes makes better college basketball players. Seems like a clear difference between the strength/muscle progression in Buzz guys vs Wojo guys.
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Watching this Winthrop, Nova game, they just highlighted the Winthrop player putting on 20+ lbs of muscle. Nova's guys are all jacked. I don't know what instruction Wojo gave Todd Smith, but the physical development of players over the past 7 years has been non-existent. I'm sure they made some gains, but it seems like Wojo had Todd de-emphasize muscle building as it might have been a detriment to their shooting or something. That or he just would rather them spend an hour on the gun vs in the weight room. Kids with muscles like to throw them around. The teams of the last seven years struggled with physicality (minus Theo who had some natural stuff going on). So I'd like a coach who understands the physicality of the game and that it takes more than grit and hustle to get the job done.
Yeah agree completely. Cain and Greg are good examples. Lots of potential but their ceiling was capped, especially on the defensive end where you need some muscle to go with the mental intensity. Be the aggressor not the kid getting manhandled. Obviously you want strength and not necessarily “bulk” but I can’t remember how many times I looked at Greg or Jamal over the past couple years and asked myself if they could just eat a steak sandwich with a large glass of milk... every day.
No reason any athlete can’t make significant gains in the weight room in a 6 month period.
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I would love Nate Oats. Absolutely love the way his teams play. But that's not realistic. Give me someone LIKE Oats. I don't know who that is though.
Kelsey from Winthrop would fit. Paul Mills from Oral Roberts. He’s a Scott Drew disciple, so that makes sense. Boyton from Ok St if we thought we could splash cash and steal him like U of I and Underwood. The other team that plays that way is Eastern Kentucky, whose coach I actually really like
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I liked what Scholl said about having a clear philosophy on both sides of the ball and recruiting players to fit that philosophy and “not just chasing every 5 star.” So, I will go with that one. It felt likes Wojo’s teams always lacked an identity.
Yes! Lack of identity was big with Wojo teams. What are we? Defensive team? Fast paced? Inside game? What?
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Kelsey from Winthrop would fit. Paul Mills from Oral Roberts. He’s a Scott Drew disciple, so that makes sense. Boyton from Ok St if we thought we could splash cash and steal him like U of I and Underwood. The other team that plays that way is Eastern Kentucky, whose coach I actually really like
Kelsey and Mills show promise.
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I want a guy with prior head coaching experience who’s proven he can build a winner at his own program. If he’s a mid-major coach, I’d like for him to have at least two NCAA appearances and have been his conference’s COY at least once. Ideally, he’ll have a diverse resume where he’s coached at the head or assistant level at a few different schools.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Smith_(basketball,_born_1972)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Smith_(basketball,_born_1972)
Recruiting network? I see six international players on his roster, most of the rest not in Big East areas? Not that that is good or bad, but you see that in many better teams out west.
Has found gems, though. Very good defense. Meh offense. Same turnover rate issues on offense and defense as Wojo's teams, although maybe more middling. MU connections.
On mid major coaches, I want to see a coach who can game plan and not just rely on his systems. Against high majors, can he make adjustments to consistently make runs in those games and occasionally win? BE coaches are crafty.
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If we go with one of the mentioned mid-major guys I expect we will hear very soon. Of course I would imagine we will want to talk to Moser for sure and perhaps Oats and Musselman.
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I really feel like Marquette had established a national brand of basketball (toughness, hustle, defense, etc.) and Wojo completely changed our brand. I want the next coach to understand the Warrior brand of basketball and bring it back. I want teams to know that while they might be more talented they’re going to earn everything they get against us.
That brand died nearly thirty years ago. Now we're the fluffy chicken brand.
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Grant McCasland of North Texas State often tells his team that the "toughest team always wins" and the head coach embodies that motto. That is what is needed toughness on both ends of the court.
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If we go with one of the mentioned mid-major guys I expect we will hear very soon. Of course I would imagine we will want to talk to Moser for sure and perhaps Oats and Musselman.
I can promise you Muggsy, we are not talking to Oats and Musselman. The only successful high major coaches we could possible poach are Boynton and Pikiell. The rest all make way more than Marquette can outspend. The only possible exception would be if someone was miserable at their current job and was willing to take a paycut to move or needed to reset their coaching clock. I haven't heard anything that leads me to believe that has happened.
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1. Have to be a high level recruiter and talent evaluator. Doesn't matter how good you are with Xs and Os and analytics, if you can't land the players, you aren't going to compete at a high level. Or, as Kevin O'Neill said long ago, "Give me Dean Smith's roster and give him Bemidji State, and I kick his ass 100 times out of 100."
2. Build a program identity, but don't be hostage to the past. Because Marquette basketball was known for "X" under a previous coach, doesn't mean it needs to be known for "X" under the next coach. But there needs to be a year-to-year consistency in approach and roster-building to fit that philosophy.
3. Established ability to develop talent. Landing high-level recruits is crucial, but no kid is going to come to Marquette a complete player. Kids need to get better during their time at Marquette under our next coaching staff.
4. At least makes an effort to keep the program out of the headlines for the wrong reasons. Kids are going to screw up, so no one is going to be perfect in this regard, but at least set a standard of what's expected off the court and in the classroom, deal with bad behavior and avoid bringing to campus kids with known issues. And while big-time athletics can require pushing right up against the line of what's allowed in the rulebook and what's not, don't willfully leap over that line.
5. No retreads. If a guy failed at his last P6 job, I'm not interested. So, no to guys like Archie Miller, Lavin, Tim Miles, etc.
Things I don't care about: Personality, press conference quips, wardrobe, what's said when the cameras are in the huddle, where recruits come from, race, gender, age.
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If we go with one of the mentioned mid-major guys I expect we will hear very soon. Of course I would imagine we will want to talk to Moser for sure and perhaps Oats and Musselman.
Thinking the "splash" names are (those that truly are big moves)
Shaka
Oats (buyout makes this almost non starter, but Goodman keeps mentioning him, so I'll put it here)
Musselman
Archie (IU tenure not great but could thrive here)
Possibly all pipedreams, but might as well kick the tires and dream.
As a fun aside, Marquette has been positioned as the "most desirable" of the openings, which has to tick off IU fans.
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I can promise you Muggsy, we are not talking to Oats and Musselman. The only successful high major coaches we could possible poach are Boynton and Pikiell. The rest all make way more than Marquette can outspend. The only possible exception would be if someone was miserable at their current job and was willing to take a paycut to move or needed to reset their coaching clock. I haven't heard anything that leads me to believe that has happened.
What about Shaka?
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General Eisenhower said that in a general the most important attribute is good luck.
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Pace of play and an offensive style that is attractive to top recruits. That is all that matters.
With the way the game has evolved, a slow/deliberate style of offense is not going to be a big draw for kids with serious next level potential.
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Someone who has taken five different programs to the NCAA.
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1. Have to be a high level recruiter and talent evaluator. Doesn't matter how good you are with Xs and Os and analytics, if you can't land the players, you aren't going to compete at a high level. Or, as Kevin O'Neill said long ago, "Give me Dean Smith's roster and give him Bemidji State, and I kick his ass 100 times out of 100."
2. Build a program identity, but don't be hostage to the past. Because Marquette basketball was known for "X" under a previous coach, doesn't mean it needs to be known for "X" under the next coach. But there needs to be a year-to-year consistency in approach and roster-building to fit that philosophy.
3. Established ability to develop talent. Landing high-level recruits is crucial, but no kid is going to come to Marquette a complete player. Kids need to get better during their time at Marquette under our next coaching staff.
4. At least makes an effort to keep the program out of the headlines for the wrong reasons. Kids are going to screw up, so no one is going to be perfect in this regard, but at least set a standard of what's expected off the court and in the classroom, deal with bad behavior and avoid bringing to campus kids with known issues. And while big-time athletics can require pushing right up against the line of what's allowed in the rulebook and what's not, don't willfully leap over that line.
5. No retreads. If a guy failed at his last P6 job, I'm not interested. So, no to guys like Archie Miller, Lavin, Tim Miles, etc.
Things I don't care about: Personality, press conference quips, wardrobe, what's said when the cameras are in the huddle, where recruits come from, race, gender, age.
I'm right with you on #4 and the last paragraph. Don't want MU on probation that means no postseason, that ruins a season. Substance over symbolism.
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Someone who has taken five different programs to the NCAA.
And landed three different programs on probation.
Does the fact the NCAA still has a pending case against Pitino that could significantly impact his ability to coach and recruit at Marquette concern you at all?
'
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Instead of candidates, what attributes do you want a coach to have?
Here is my list:
**Understanding of current analytics related to how the game is played. Emphasis on shooting, lack of turnovers, etc.
**Play with pace.
**Recruit nationwide but need to win back the local recruiting scene.
I would love Nate Oats. Absolutely love the way his teams play. But that's not realistic. Give me someone LIKE Oats. I don't know who that is though.
On bullets 2 and 3, I happened to listen to Wojo's full introductory press conference this morning. I found his comments on defense, aggressiveness/pace, and analytics interesting in hindsight.
Audio: https://www.dougrussellpod.com/ (March 19 episode, go to 53:20; worth a listen for Andrei Greska's contribution as well)
Transcript: http://www.asapsports.com/show_conference.php?id=97801
QUESTION (PAINT TOUCHES, MARK STROTMAN):
Coach, in terms of Xs and Os, how closely do you want to model what Coach "K", yourself, and the assistants at Duke had done? Also the second part, how much do advanced statistics play a role in your game planning and how you go about coaching these guys?
COACH WOJCIECHOWSKI:
Well, number one, I hope we model ourselves enough where we're hanging banners and winning conference championships and all the things that we were able to do at Duke. Obviously, Coach has a huge impact on what I believe in basketball, and it starts with defense first. Not only that is who I was as a player. I believe defense is what wins championships and really good defense should lead to offense and exciting and fast play.
We have to figure out how our group is in a position to win every game against who we're competing against. So ultimately that's my job.
In a perfect world, I want to play aggressive defense, I want to create offense from our defense, and I want to play a fun and fast, attacking style of offense. I think that's how kids want to play. That's how I wanted to play. That's how I did play, and that's how I would like our team and our group here at Marquette to play.
Analytics, I think, are important. When you think about what's important into building a winner, I think analytics is a very important piece to the puzzle. I don't think it's the end-all, be-all. I think it's another resource that you should use, and if it can give you that extra edge to win, then great. But I'm not going to base my decisions solely on analytics, but it will be a piece of the puzzle. Thank you very much.
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Instead of candidates, what attributes do you want a coach to have?
Here is my list:
**Understanding of current analytics related to how the game is played. Emphasis on shooting, lack of turnovers, etc.
**Play with pace.
**Recruit nationwide but need to win back the local recruiting scene.
I would love Nate Oats. Absolutely love the way his teams play. But that's not realistic. Give me someone LIKE Oats. I don't know who that is though.
What attributes do I want in a coach? I want a coach that wins games at a high level. As long as they are still keeping score, I want a coach who wins. Big East Regular Season Titles, NCAA Titles, NCAA Games, Non-Conference Games, Rivalry Games, Conference Tourney Games, other tourney games.
With that said as the most important attribute...
I want a staff/program more than just a coach. I want one that recruits at a high level, with balance, lateral quickness, some players with the ability to create one's own shot while also s
being able to stay in front of their man on defense. I want team fundamentals, ball handling, passing, high free throw shooting percentages, 3 point shooting, mid range, paint scoring, decision making.
I want a variety of targeted game plans with a variety of in game adjustments, often changing when necessary. i want a team that can play and win at a variety of pace and tempo. I want balance but balance can come in a variety of ways as opposed to equal in all facets. I want strong individual and team player development.
I want a coach that will exhaust all resources and geographies for players and staff.
I want a coach, staff, team that is always learning something new. i want a coach that adjusts to different personnel.
That's a pretty good start.