Despite starting BigTen play 2-0, after falling to Rutgers today, NU has lost its last 11 games. Yes, most of these losses have been to highly ranked conference foes. Wondering if K has been offering encouragement to both Wojo and Collins this year.
If you had the chance to swap Wojo for Collins, would you? Another guy who represents the university really well, graduates kids, yet can't seem to turn a corner. Are NU's problems admissions-related? Who would be more likely to have future success at another school, Steve or Chris?
They both suck, hey? It'll be a while before another guy from the Coach K tree gets a P6 job without cutting his teeth at a small school first.
If only there was some data before we hired Wojo that K assistants didn't do well...
Quote from: Silent Verbal on February 13, 2021, 09:03:50 PM
They both suck, hey? It'll be a while before another guy from the Coach K tree gets a P6 job without cutting his teeth at a small school first.
Coach K is not a good coach. He has been able to pull the best of the best college basketball talent of all time - but his actual coaching is not good.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on February 13, 2021, 09:23:07 PM
Coach K is not a good coach. He has been able to pull the best of the best college basketball talent of all time - but his actual coaching is not good.
🙄🙄🙄
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on February 13, 2021, 09:23:07 PM
Coach K is not a good coach. He has been able to pull the best of the best college basketball talent of all time - but his actual coaching is not good.
K is a great coach, but he does not prepare his assistants to be head coaches.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on February 13, 2021, 09:34:35 PM
K is a good coach, but he does not prepare his assistants to be head coaches.
I don't think his "tree" has been awful. Most legendary coaches don't generate a ton of good assistants mostly because of simple probabilities. Most coaches fail.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on February 13, 2021, 09:23:07 PM
Coach K is not a good coach. He has been able to pull the best of the best college basketball talent of all time - but his actual coaching is not good.
Lol!
Quote from: BLM on February 13, 2021, 09:42:40 PM
Lol!
What in the world could you possibly be acting smug about? You've been wrong about almost everything you've ever argued for the last 12 months. And you hid in a corner after we got our doors blown off by Nova.
Lol!
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on February 13, 2021, 10:10:46 PM
What in the world could you possibly be acting smug about? You've been wrong about almost everything you've ever argued for the last 12 months. And you hid in a corner after we got our doors blown off by Nova.
Lol!
I've been wrong my fair share here too. That said, cmon on your take here. Oh I don't know...just maybe K built the program to the point it does indeed get the best of the best recruits, who want to play for a proven champion.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on February 13, 2021, 10:10:46 PM
What in the world could you possibly be acting smug about? You've been wrong about almost everything you've ever argued for the last 12 months. And you hid in a corner after we got our doors blown off by Nova.
Lol!
I have? And I hid in the corner after Nova? Lol. I think you're getting confused by your own actions after MU wins.
But yeah. Coach K is not a good coach. Hahahahaha.
Just undoubtedly a top 5 coach ever to coach the game of basketball.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on February 13, 2021, 09:23:07 PM
Coach K is not a good coach. He has been able to pull the best of the best college basketball talent of all time - but his actual coaching is not good.
Yeah like back when he started before Duke was what Duke is now he was totally able to get the best talent easy!
Grow up and do some research K has grown with the times. He wasn't getting All Americans in the early 80s, he grew and then was developing them into multi year players. Duke didn't become a 1 & done factory till at most Kyrie arguably after Austin rivers. He may not coach as much anymore as he once did but calling him a bad coach is laughable by any standard
Quote from: BLM on February 13, 2021, 10:19:37 PM
Just undoubtedly a top 5 coach ever to coach the game of basketball.
1. Wooden
2. Auerbach
3. Knight
4. Phil Jackson
5. Pop
K doesn't really come close to the cut. I could make a case for 6-10 before K makes the list, too.
Undoubtedly, though right?
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on February 13, 2021, 11:11:12 PM
1. Wooden
2. Auerbach
3. Knight
4. Phil Jackson
5. Pop
K doesn't really come close to the cut. I could make a case for 6-10 before K makes the list, too.
Undoubtedly, though right?
Lol at putting Bob Knight over Coach K.
Yes, undoubtedly.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on February 13, 2021, 09:23:07 PM
Coach K is not a good coach. He has been able to pull the best of the best college basketball talent of all time - but his actual coaching is not good.
This take is hotter than the sun.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on February 13, 2021, 11:11:12 PM
1. Wooden
2. Auerbach
3. Knight
4. Phil Jackson
5. Pop
K doesn't really come close to the cut. I could make a case for 6-10 before K makes the list, too.
Undoubtedly, though right?
You originally said he "is not a good coach." Now you might have him in the second ten to have ever coached that game. That is one hell of a back pedal.
And Bobby Knight was indeed a great coach. Better than K? Nah.
Oh and the irony of putting Wooden #1 when your initial take on K was that he stinks because "has has been able to pull the best of the best college basketball talent of all time" is so hilariously ironic.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 14, 2021, 06:45:22 AM
You originally said he "is not a good coach." Now you might have him in the second ten to have ever coached that game. That is one hell of a back pedal.
And Bobby Knight was indeed a great coach. Better than K? Nah.
Oh and the irony of putting Wooden #1 when your initial take on K was that he stinks because "has has been able to pull the best of the best college basketball talent of all time" is so hilariously ironic.
I think Coach K is obviously a great coach, but I don't think, since he has gone full in on the one and dones, he is near what he used be. Current generation of top players are weened on personal skill development and AAU ball which emphasizes showing what you can do vs solid team play on both sides of the ball. You end up with extremely talented and skilled basketball players who "don't know how to play basketball." One year is not enough time to instill his principles when starting with superior talent and less team game fundamentals. I don't know how these coaches do it, myself.
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 14, 2021, 07:01:50 AM
I think Coach K is obviously a great coach, but I don't think, since he has gone full in on the one and dones, he is near what he used be. Current generation of top players are weened on personal skill development and AAU ball which emphasizes showing what you can do vs solid team play on both sides of the ball. You end up with extremely talented and skilled basketball players who "don't know how to play basketball." One year is not enough time to instill his principles when starting with superior talent and less team game fundamentals. I don't know how these coaches do it, myself.
This is an extremely intelligent observation. Well done.
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 14, 2021, 07:01:50 AM
I think Coach K is obviously a great coach, but I don't think, since he has gone full in on the one and dones, he is near what he used be. Current generation of top players are weened on personal skill development and AAU ball which emphasizes showing what you can do vs solid team play on both sides of the ball. You end up with extremely talented and skilled basketball players who "don't know how to play basketball." One year is not enough time to instill his principles when starting with superior talent and less team game fundamentals. I don't know how these coaches do it, myself.
I don't disagree with any of this. I am not sure where I would put him on the list of great coaches myself. But to say "he's not a good coach" is not an accurate statement.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 14, 2021, 07:35:00 AM
I don't disagree with any of this. I am not sure where I would put him on the list of great coaches myself. But to say "he's not a good coach" is not an accurate statement.
You can say a lot of things about coach K, but starting off with , "he can't coach" is flimsy.
Let's not equate he's not a good coach with he's not good person.
Coach K is a great coach. To his credit, he built a program that can run on auto pilot. Assistants select, they don'f really have to recruit. And given K's personality (in charge, hands on), I'd guess they don't have to do all that much coaching, either. It's a great gig, a very cushy route to becoming a head coach (comparatively speaking). But are they prepared for the realities of running a non blue blood program? Give me someone who has had more experiences that just going to Duke and being an assistant there.
I find it truly amazing and baffling still after playing and coaching under him for nearly 20 years, Wojo is this bad running his own program.
The only conclusion that can logically be drawn to explain that is Wojo is either just plain stupid or hasn't worked nearly hard enough at this job. I don't know what option C is to explain this level of ineptitude at everything in this job except recruiting.
I'd go with he doesn't put in the work necessary, and he really is a country club guy as some here have asserted.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 14, 2021, 07:50:08 AM
Coach K is a great coach. To his credit, he built a program that can run on auto pilot. Assistants select, they don'f really have to recruit. And given K's personality (in charge, hands on), I'd guess they don't have to do all that much coaching, either. It's a great gig, a very cushy route to becoming a head coach (comparatively speaking). But are they prepared for the realities of running a non blue blood program? Give me someone who has had more experiences that just going to Duke and being an assistant there.
I agree with this and good analysis, but there are some points he's had to go off auto pilot in the ACC and tournament to win games and championships. I agree he probably is quite hands on in those moments.
But I go back to, how did this rube seemingly pick up on none of K's coaching brilliance during these moments?
I have said recently that it's incredibly frustrating that Wojo hasn't learned in 7 seasons that MU takes a totally different approach to run than Duke. And blue blood Duke is all he ever knew in college basketball before April 2014.
So maybe Wojo is just stupid.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 14, 2021, 07:57:40 AM
I find it truly amazing and baffling still after playing and coaching under him for nearly 20 years, Wojo is this bad running his own program.
The only conclusion that can logically be drawn to explain that is Wojo is either just plain stupid or hasn't worked nearly hard enough at this job. I don't know what option C is to explain this level of ineptitude at everything in this job except recruiting.
I'd go with he doesn't put in the work necessary, and he really is a country club guy as some here have asserted.
Option C: running a high level college basketball program is hard and most people fail at it.
Calling him stupid or lazy is...stupid and lazy.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on February 13, 2021, 11:11:12 PM
1. Wooden
2. Auerbach
3. Knight
4. Phil Jackson
5. Pop
Dirtiest program
1. Wooden
Wooden was a gentleman but didn't win until the money started flowing and the talent went through the roof.
While Wooden was far from alone in cheating in NCAA basketball, I've never heard anything about Knight being dirty (only a jerk).
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on February 13, 2021, 11:11:12 PM
1. Wooden
2. Auerbach
3. Knight
4. Phil Jackson
5. Pop
K doesn't really come close to the cut. I could make a case for 6-10 before K makes the list, too.
Undoubtedly, though right?
Pop? You've lost serious credibility here, brah. I'm shocked you're not adding pothead Steve Kerr. Jackson? I'd win if I had MJ/Pip...Shaq/Kobe. Don't force me to agree w/BLM. You're ruining my day. btw, Morgan Wooten...DeMatha. Look him up.
Quote from: Marq3332 on February 14, 2021, 09:39:48 AM
Pop? You've lost serious credibility here, brah. I'm shocked you're not adding pothead Steve Kerr. Jackson? I'd win if I had MJ/Pip...Shaq/Kobe. Don't force me to agree w/BLM. You're ruining my day. btw, Morgan Wooten...DeMatha. Look him up.
Greg Popovich is 100% the better COACH than K. And he belongs in the top 5.
The same people that think K is a GOAT coach think Brady is a GOAT QB.
Quote from: Marq3332 on February 14, 2021, 09:39:48 AM
Pop? You've lost serious credibility here, brah. I'm shocked you're not adding pothead Steve Kerr. Jackson? I'd win if I had MJ/Pip...Shaq/Kobe. Don't force me to agree w/BLM. You're ruining my day. btw, Morgan Wooten...DeMatha. Look him up.
I believe the criteria is how good of a coach each is, not whether they conform to your political view.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on February 14, 2021, 09:50:02 AM
Greg Popovich is 100% the better COACH than K. And he belongs in the top 5.
The same people that think K is a GOAT coach think Brady is a GOAT QB.
Lol. Yes, I would agree with that. The same people who don't agree with that are the same people who don't have one ounce of common sense.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on February 14, 2021, 09:50:02 AM
The same people that think K is a GOAT coach think Brady is a GOAT QB.
You mean most sports fans?
Quote from: Marq3332 on February 14, 2021, 09:39:48 AM
Pop? You've lost serious credibility here, brah. I'm shocked you're not adding pothead Steve Kerr. Jackson? I'd win if I had MJ/Pip...Shaq/Kobe. Don't force me to agree w/BLM. You're ruining my day. btw, Morgan Wooten...DeMatha. Look him up.
Lol.
Then any human with a brain must think Robert Horry is the GOAT of the NBA, only behind Bill Russell?
Duke won a national title with a 7 man rotation led by Kyle Singler and Nolan Smith. Shocked there are people who think he can't coach.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on February 14, 2021, 10:28:15 AM
Then any human with a brain must think Robert Horry is the GOAT of the NBA, only behind Bill Russell?
1) Do some research and you'll realize Robert Horry doesn't have the second most rings in the NBA.
2) Let me know which of his championships Robert Horry was the best player and played the most important position in sports for.
3) Let me know how many Finals MVPs Horry has won.
4) Let me know how many regular season MVPs Horry has won.
I'm shocked this is your argument. Totally shocked.
Quote from: BM1090 on February 14, 2021, 10:37:52 AM
Duke won a national title with a 7 man rotation led by Kyle Singler and Nolan Smith. Shocked there are people who think he can't coach.
He also didn't make the National Final with Zion, Barrett, and Reddish
Quote from: BLM on February 14, 2021, 10:46:39 AM
2) Let me know which of his championships Robert Horry was the best player and played the most important position in sports for.
I'm shocked this is your argument. Totally shocked.
Let me know which of Brady's Super Bowls he was the best player on the team.
Spoiler alert: 0
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on February 14, 2021, 10:47:39 AM
He also didn't make the National Final with Zion, Barrett, and Reddish
You realize that most coaches don't win championships in a given year right?
Continuing to die on this hill tells me all I need to know.
I may be in the minority in the Chicago-area, but I think Collins is incredibly overrated thanks to a single victory in the NCAAT (and due to a historic year, by NU standards). Collins has finished tenth or worst in over half the time of his tenure in the B1G. Adding more confusion is that Pat Fitzgerald has been able to do far more in football (winning division championships, winning bowl games, playing for B!G titles, etc.), which requires recruiting and developing more high-level talent. In basketball, you only need a few players to compete, whereas in football you need a few dozen. Collins, much in the vein of a Wojo, very much by perception standards, has a job for life, despite losing way more than winning.
To Coach K coaching disciples, I don't think any are making tournament this year (Dawkins, Capel, Wojo, Collins, Amaker, Brey or Hurley). Dawkins, Amaker and Capel have been fired, with Wojo and Collins likely, at some point, to join them as well. Pretty remarkable that none of them have attained sustainable success, given Duke's status as one of the top programs annually. Duke, and Coach K, have regressed since moving towards one-and-done players, and that is really no surprise.
A lot like in the NFL, hiring Belichick assistants does not bring Patriots-level success. Whomever is the next MU head coach needs head coaching experience at another level, and needs to know how to develop a sustainable winning program.
I'm not sure I would put Hurley in this group. He never coached under K.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on February 14, 2021, 10:50:41 AM
Let me know which of Brady's Super Bowls he was the best player on the team.
Spoiler alert: 0
The best player in the NFL wasn't the best player on his own team. Wild stuff. Even for 5$
I think it's silly comparing college and NBA coaches to come up with a 'best of all time' list. The jobs require very different skillsets and job responsibilities, which is why it's rare for guys to successfully go from one to the other. Pitino, Cal, Floyd, Kruger and others have failed miserably. And while a couple of great college coaches (Donovan and Stevens) have been pretty good, they've never come close to their college success. The only real exception I can think of is Larry Brown.
Quote from: TSmith34 on February 14, 2021, 10:03:34 AM
I believe the criteria is how good of a coach each is, not whether they conform to your political view.
no politics here. Wooten was amazing. A lot of his guys were HS McD AA's to D-1 AA's to pro's. Just an incredible record.
Wojo is trying to catch up to his buddy.
Quote from: Marq3332 on February 14, 2021, 04:27:52 PM
no politics here. Wooten was amazing. A lot of his guys were HS McD AA's to D-1 AA's to pro's. Just an incredible record.
You discount Jackson because he had MJ and Pip, yet the guy with McD AAs is just a great coach I guess.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on February 14, 2021, 10:53:07 AM
I may be in the minority in the Chicago-area, but I think Collins is incredibly overrated thanks to a single victory in the NCAAT (and due to a historic year, by NU standards). Collins has finished tenth or worst in over half the time of his tenure in the B1G. Adding more confusion is that Pat Fitzgerald has been able to do far more in football (winning division championships, winning bowl games, playing for B!G titles, etc.), which requires recruiting and developing more high-level talent. In basketball, you only need a few players to compete, whereas in football you need a few dozen. Collins, much in the vein of a Wojo, very much by perception standards, has a job for life, despite losing way more than winning.
People in Chicago think highly enough of Collins to deem him overrated? I thought people were excited bout him culminating with the NCAA berth, but the shine is off him by this point. His job security isn't so much related to that, IMO. Since the mid-80s, NW has only had 5 HCs. And that includes O'Neills incredibly short 3 year run that likely would have been longer if he didn't go winless in conference. In general, basketball expectations are low and thus if you run a clean program and remain decently competitive at the mid/bottom of the B10, you'll be safe.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 14, 2021, 08:35:06 AM
Option C: running a high level college basketball program is hard and most people fail at it.
Calling him stupid or lazy is...stupid and lazy.
Could not agree more with your college-hoops-is-hard synopsis.
Wojo works very hard at his job.
That said, I wonder if MU has had so much success under KO, Crean, and Buzz due to some some beyond-ridiculous work ethic.
If I remember correctly, when Wojo took the job, he made a point about how K taught his staff to work hard, but that working smart is everything. Go home to your family at a decent hour, and have a life.
I'm not knocking this m.o., but I am just pointing out that MU has had a long string of coaches dating back to Rick Majerus who either didn't have a family or seriously over-worked around this fact. We all have heard the stories about how Rick lived in a hotel in SaltLakeCity while coaching Utah, and how he lived, breathed, ate, drank, and slept basketball. KO I believe was divorced when he was here, and was also a round-the-clock coaching gym rat. Coach Crean, by all reports, was round-the-clock obsessed with getting MU back to prominence. He made a couple references about demands on his time and how he hasn't always been the best husband and Dad. The stories about Buzz and his lack of sleep are legendary. He too made comments about how his wife was some kind of lion to be married to him with all time he isn't at home.
I'm not saying any of this is right. In fact, it's wrong for any coach, let alone a Marquette coach, to neglect his family. I plead guilty to following Wojo's old Twitter and Instagram accounts and loved seeing his cool family, and how happy they look. He is an unmitigated success of a Dad and husband, and probably the guy any of us would most want to tee it up with on a summer weekend at the golf course (even if he weren't our beloved MU coach). But, maybe being Marquette coach requires something a little extra. Ok, maybe a lot more, like an unhealthy round-the-clock obsession that we weren't ever going to be outworked or out-prepared.
Maybe the next coach we hire should be single. Coach O'Neill, during a Coaches show when he was at Northwestern, once called it "his edge". Then a few moments later he bemoaned to the show host about coming home to nobody to set him and his bs straight. He married again in 2006.
Quote from: JWags85 on February 14, 2021, 04:44:49 PM
People in Chicago think highly enough of Collins to deem him overrated? I thought people were excited bout him culminating with the NCAA berth, but the shine is off him by this point. His job security isn't so much related to that, IMO. Since the mid-80s, NW has only had 5 HCs. And that includes O'Neills incredibly short 3 year run that likely would have been longer if he didn't go winless in conference. In general, basketball expectations are low and thus if you run a clean program and remain decently competitive at the mid/bottom of the B10, you'll be safe.
Northwestern basketball barely registers in Chicago.
It ranks behind the Bears, the Cubs, the White Sox, the Bulls, the Blackhawks, Notre Dame football, Northwestern football, and Illinois basketball and football. Attendance-wise, it even ranks behind the Chicago Wolves minor-league hockey team.
College basketball, as a whole, is not very big in Chicago. Hasn't been since DePaul was any good. If a team becomes a "hot story" - Loyola since the FF, Northwestern when occasionally competitive, even Marquette when we were rolling, heck even UIC for a couple years - it will get more attention. But Northwestern hoops, by and large, is a redheaded stepchild.
Quote from: MU82 on February 14, 2021, 10:52:43 PM
Northwestern basketball barely registers in Chicago.
It ranks behind the Bears, the Cubs, the White Sox, the Bulls, the Blackhawks, Notre Dame football, Northwestern football, and Illinois basketball and football. Attendance-wise, it even ranks behind the Chicago Wolves minor-league hockey team.
College basketball, as a whole, is not very big in Chicago. Hasn't been since DePaul was any good. If a team becomes a "hot story" - Loyola since the FF, Northwestern when occasionally competitive, even Marquette when we were rolling, heck even UIC for a couple years - it will get more attention. But Northwestern hoops, by and large, is a redheaded stepchild.
That's small town America, not enough fans.
Business took me to St. Louis a few years ago and I was suprised how small town it is. Even smaller than Milwaukee.
When you get below the east coast corridor, Boston to Washington, there is not much going on. Indianapolis, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Wichita all have something in common, they are small time. Nice people, great roads, modern conveniences, hospitals, schools etc., but not many fans. Chicago is just one step above them.
Now we find ourselves in the BIG EAST and perhaps out of our league. Boston, New York, Connecticut, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington, now that is where there are enough people/fans to support many teams.
Quote from: vogue65 on February 14, 2021, 11:04:54 PM
That's small town America, not enough fans.
Business took me to St. Louis a few years ago and I was suprised how small town it is. Even smaller than Milwaukee.
When you get below the east coast corridor, Boston to Washington, there is not much going on. Indianapolis, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Wichita all have something in common, they are small time. Nice people, great roads, modern conveniences, hospitals, schools etc., but not many fans. Chicago is just one step above them.
Now we find ourselves in the BIG EAST and perhaps out of our league. Boston, New York, Connecticut, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington, now that is where there are enough people/fans to support many teams.
So anything smaller than LA or NYC is "small town America?" What?
Quote from: vogue65 on February 14, 2021, 11:04:54 PM
That's small town America, not enough fans.
Business took me to St. Louis a few years ago and I was suprised how small town it is. Even smaller than Milwaukee.
When you get below the east coast corridor, Boston to Washington, there is not much going on. Indianapolis, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Wichita all have something in common, they are small time. Nice people, great roads, modern conveniences, hospitals, schools etc., but not many fans. Chicago is just one step above them.
Now we find ourselves in the BIG EAST and perhaps out of our league. Boston, New York, Connecticut, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington, now that is where there are enough people/fans to support many teams.
Errrr, you are aware where Northwestern is located, right?
Quote from: NorthernDancerColt on February 14, 2021, 10:30:18 PM
Could not agree more with your college-hoops-is-hard synopsis.
Wojo works very hard at his job.
That said, I wonder if MU has had so much success under KO, Crean, and Buzz due to some some beyond-ridiculous work ethic.
If I remember correctly, when Wojo took the job, he made a point about how K taught his staff to work hard, but that working smart is everything. Go home to your family at a decent hour, and have a life.
I'm not knocking this m.o., but I am just pointing out that MU has had a long string of coaches dating back to Rick Majerus who either didn't have a family or seriously over-worked around this fact. We all have heard the stories about how Rick lived in a hotel in SaltLakeCity while coaching Utah, and how he lived, breathed, ate, drank, and slept basketball. KO I believe was divorced when he was here, and was also a round-the-clock coaching gym rat. Coach Crean, by all reports, was round-the-clock obsessed with getting MU back to prominence. He made a couple references about demands on his time and how he hasn't always been the best husband and Dad. The stories about Buzz and his lack of sleep are legendary. He too made comments about how his wife was some kind of lion to be married to him with all time he isn't at home.
I'm not saying any of this is right. In fact, it's wrong for any coach, let alone a Marquette coach, to neglect his family. I plead guilty to following Wojo's old Twitter and Instagram accounts and loved seeing his cool family, and how happy they look. He is an unmitigated success of a Dad and husband, and probably the guy any of us would most want to tee it up with on a summer weekend at the golf course (even if he weren't our beloved MU coach). But, maybe being Marquette coach requires something a little extra. Ok, maybe a lot more, like an unhealthy round-the-clock obsession that we weren't ever going to be outworked or out-prepared.
Maybe the next coach we hire should be single. Coach O'Neill, during a Coaches show when he was at Northwestern, once called it "his edge". Then a few moments later he bemoaned to the show host about coming home to nobody to set him and his bs straight. He married again in 2006.
Buzz and Crean were married with kids.
Quote from: NorthernDancerColt on February 14, 2021, 10:30:18 PM
Could not agree more with your college-hoops-is-hard synopsis.
Wojo works very hard at his job.
That said, I wonder if MU has had so much success under KO, Crean, and Buzz due to some some beyond-ridiculous work ethic.
If I remember correctly, when Wojo took the job, he made a point about how K taught his staff to work hard, but that working smart is everything. Go home to your family at a decent hour, and have a life.
I'm not knocking this m.o., but I am just pointing out that MU has had a long string of coaches dating back to Rick Majerus who either didn't have a family or seriously over-worked around this fact. We all have heard the stories about how Rick lived in a hotel in SaltLakeCity while coaching Utah, and how he lived, breathed, ate, drank, and slept basketball. KO I believe was divorced when he was here, and was also a round-the-clock coaching gym rat. Coach Crean, by all reports, was round-the-clock obsessed with getting MU back to prominence. He made a couple references about demands on his time and how he hasn't always been the best husband and Dad. The stories about Buzz and his lack of sleep are legendary. He too made comments about how his wife was some kind of lion to be married to him with all time he isn't at home.
I'm not saying any of this is right. In fact, it's wrong for any coach, let alone a Marquette coach, to neglect his family. I plead guilty to following Wojo's old Twitter and Instagram accounts and loved seeing his cool family, and how happy they look. He is an unmitigated success of a Dad and husband, and probably the guy any of us would most want to tee it up with on a summer weekend at the golf course (even if he weren't our beloved MU coach). But, maybe being Marquette coach requires something a little extra. Ok, maybe a lot more, like an unhealthy round-the-clock obsession that we weren't ever going to be outworked or out-prepared.
Maybe the next coach we hire should be single. Coach O'Neill, during a Coaches show when he was at Northwestern, once called it "his edge". Then a few moments later he bemoaned to the show host about coming home to nobody to set him and his bs straight. He married again in 2006.
I've suspected something like this for awhile too. Buzz and TC were/are basketball maniacs. Sleep in their office types. Types that losses just absolutely eat them up inside.
I don't view Wojo in that same light. He seems like a normal, well balanced guy that just doesn't get to high or too low. I don't know if he has the drive to compete against guys that are married to basketball first and their personal lives second.
I don't think Buzz ever slept in his office. Let's not start making stuff up now.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 15, 2021, 08:03:32 AM
I don't think Buzz ever slept in his office. Let's not start making stuff up now.
Pick another figure of speech for working crazy hours that you prefer then.
This has been an outstanding read. To summarize:
- Maybe 2 or 3 posts actually responding to the initial questions and comparisons between Wojo and Collins.
- Coach K is a bad coach.
- Chicago is a small town.
Yikes.
Quote from: panda on February 15, 2021, 08:10:03 AM
Pick another figure of speech for working crazy hours that you prefer then.
I don't see evidence that Buzz worked longer hours than Wojo does.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 15, 2021, 08:15:27 AM
I don't see evidence that Buzz worked longer hours than Wojo does.
I think this is an example of Buzz being far better at marketing himself than Wojo.
Re: Wojo not being as basketball obsessed as Buzz and Crean, I mean, have you ever seen a Wojo interview? Do you watch him on the sidelines and notice his body language? The guy is a 100% certified jock. I'm sure his family is #1, but he's no different than Crean or Buzz in the "working long hours" department. It's not like he clocks out at 5pm every day and doesn't think about ball until 9 the next morning.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on February 15, 2021, 08:31:28 AM
Re: Wojo not being as basketball obsessed as Buzz and Crean, I mean, have you ever seen a Wojo interview? Do you watch him on the sidelines and notice his body language? The guy is a 100% certified jock. I'm sure his family is #1, but he's no different than Crean or Buzz in the "working long hours" department. It's not like he clocks out at 5pm every day and doesn't think about ball until 9 the next morning.
No kidding. Just because he's not a good coach doesn't mean he's just putting in 40 hours a week and that's that. Shrugging off the losses and doesn't really care much. Has never had to work hard or has some entitlement because Duke had K and K did everything. I'm very, very doubtful that K just said, "I've got everything. You guys just show up when practice starts and head home after." I'm guessing K demands a lot of his assistants. Just watch what he makes his managers do at halftime. I don't think he treats his managers that way and then lets his assistants be lazy and handle nothing. Now, whether an assistant position at Duke is the best way to prepare you for taking over your own program and having to successfully build that program? I can debate that. But to pretend Wojo has never had to work hard in his life and he just fell into a $2M/year job without putting in the work to deserve it? That's a joke.
The same Scoopers who are obsessed with his post game pressers and finding spots where he's "thin skinned" and "tightly wound" are the ones now claiming the losses don't mean as much to him as Tom Crean or Buzz Williams.
Quote from: vogue65 on February 14, 2021, 11:04:54 PM
That's small town America, not enough fans.
Business took me to St. Louis a few years ago and I was suprised how small town it is. Even smaller than Milwaukee.
When you get below the east coast corridor, Boston to Washington, there is not much going on. Indianapolis, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Wichita all have something in common, they are small time. Nice people, great roads, modern conveniences, hospitals, schools etc., but not many fans. Chicago is just one step above them.
Now we find ourselves in the BIG EAST and perhaps out of our league. Boston, New York, Connecticut, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington, now that is where there are enough people/fans to support many teams.
???
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on February 14, 2021, 09:50:02 AM
Greg Popovich is 100% the better COACH than K. And he belongs in the top 5.
The same people that think K is a GOAT coach think Brady is a GOAT QB.
That would be most sane and objective observers of sports. Here's what the best players in the world think about Coach K:
https://www.si.com/olympics/2016/08/21/usa-mens-basketball-coach-mike-krzyzewski-rio-olympics
Quote from: vogue65 on February 14, 2021, 11:04:54 PM
That's small town America, not enough fans.
Business took me to St. Louis a few years ago and I was suprised how small town it is. Even smaller than Milwaukee.
When you get below the east coast corridor, Boston to Washington, there is not much going on. Indianapolis, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Wichita all have something in common, they are small time. Nice people, great roads, modern conveniences, hospitals, schools etc., but not many fans. Chicago is just one step above them.
Now we find ourselves in the BIG EAST and perhaps out of our league. Boston, New York, Connecticut, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington, now that is where there are enough people/fans to support many teams.
So third biggest city in the country, 39th in the world is on par with Wichita in this comparison.
Meanwhile you use a
state that has a less population than the
city of Chicago (Connecticut) as a reference to where there's more people?
Dude take your meds. The rest of the Midwest is pretty small and spread out but the Chicago/Milwaukee/Gary super city is on par with anywhere you'd find out East.
Quote from: vogue65 on February 14, 2021, 11:04:54 PM
That's small town America, not enough fans.
Business took me to St. Louis a few years ago and I was suprised how small town it is. Even smaller than Milwaukee.
When you get below the east coast corridor, Boston to Washington, there is not much going on. Indianapolis, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Wichita all have something in common, they are small time. Nice people, great roads, modern conveniences, hospitals, schools etc., but not many fans. Chicago is just one step above them.
Now we find ourselves in the BIG EAST and perhaps out of our league. Boston, New York, Connecticut, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington, now that is where there are enough people/fans to support many teams.
Huh? Not sure where to begin here.
If you win, you will get fans and support. If you don't, you won't. And, wait for it, some "smaller towns" actually get better fan support than significantly larger metros.
Boston College is pretty far down the list of sports fandom in New England unless they have a successful team. Top 10 to 15 market, pro sports etc...
Syracuse University markets itself as "New York's Team,"... in New York City. Spoiler alert: It's located more than 250 miles away.
DC anyone? Chicago?
Several of the metro areas you mentioned have vastly different populations. I'm not sure you understand the difference between a small town and a major metro area.
St. Louis? Top 20 Metro Market. If you produce a competitive product, you will get big crowds. Spoonhour was getting 17k crowds. Sell outs common in the Majerus era. Even last year, here is their home crowd for their 2020 Dayton game. Good luck getting a ticket:
https://twitter.com/mikecoreysports/status/1218322211985031169?s=19
Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 15, 2021, 09:57:33 AM
So third biggest city in the country, 39th in the world is on par with Wichita in this comparison.
Meanwhile you use a state that has a less population than the city of Chicago (Connecticut) as a reference to where there's more people?
Dude take your meds. The rest of the Midwest is pretty small and spread out but the Chicago/Milwaukee/Gary super city is on par with anywhere you'd find out East.
I lived in Chicago for nearly a decade after my four years at Marquette and I've never heard of this.
Is this a thing now? Do people really refer to a 100-125 mile area as a "super city"?
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on February 15, 2021, 10:47:11 AM
I lived in Chicago for nearly a decade after my four years at Marquette and I've never heard of this.
Is this a thing now? Do people really refer to a 100-125 mile area as a "super city"?
Not that I've heard. Milwaukee certainly doesn't consider itself a northern suburb.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on February 15, 2021, 10:47:11 AM
I lived in Chicago for nearly a decade after my four years at Marquette and I've never heard of this.
Is this a thing now? Do people really refer to a 100-125 mile area as a "super city"?
I heard it at MU when there was debate over whether Racine was a part of the Chicago or Milwaukee DMA.
I used Supercity wrong the word I was looking for was megaregion. that region I listed is the 3rd highest GDP region in the US. And there's consistent urbanization (albeit at varying degrees) between the two with two counties being debatably part of both GMAs.
https://biztimes.com/milwaukee-and-chicago-are-part-of-the-same-megaregion/
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 15, 2021, 10:53:16 AM
Not that I've heard. Milwaukee certainly doesn't consider itself a northern suburb.
The term that I was reaching for doesn't imply Milwaukee is. It's when two or more cities are close and there's consistent urbanization between the two with crossover areas in terms of what would be considered a part of the GMA.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on February 15, 2021, 10:47:11 AM
I lived in Chicago for nearly a decade after my four years at Marquette and I've never heard of this.
Is this a thing now? Do people really refer to a 100-125 mile area as a "super city"?
Also shocking. No one has ever willingly pulled Gary into anything since the early 1900s.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on February 15, 2021, 10:47:11 AM
I lived in Chicago for nearly a decade after my four years at Marquette and I've never heard of this.
Is this a thing now? Do people really refer to a 100-125 mile area as a "super city"?
Chicagoland or Chicago Metro population has long included Kenosha County, as its Northern limit, prior to Racine. It has used Gary, and NW Indiana in those stats as well. Anything North of Racine towards Milwaukee? No.
(A little over a fourth of Chicago Metro population is city limit population. Almost 75% is in up to parts of three states, but not quite Milwaukee)
These are the numbers and geographies they have used used for a long time. (Insert your own commute stories or sports commute commentary)
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 15, 2021, 11:04:54 AM
Also shocking. No one has ever willingly pulled Gary into anything since the early 1900s.
That's the town that "knew me when."
If you'd like to have a logical explanation
How I happened on this elegant syncopation,
I will say without a moment of hesitation
There is just one place
That can light my face.
Gary, Indiana,
Gary Indiana,
Not Louisiana, Paris, France, New York, or Rome, but--
Gary, Indiana,
Gary, Indiana,
Gary Indiana,
My home sweet home
Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 15, 2021, 11:15:17 AM
That's the town that "knew me when."
If you'd like to have a logical explanation
How I happened on this elegant syncopation,
I will say without a moment of hesitation
There is just one place
That can light my face.
Gary, Indiana,
Gary Indiana,
Not Louisiana, Paris, France, New York, or Rome, but--
Gary, Indiana,
Gary, Indiana,
Gary Indiana,
My home sweet home
Can you play it on your bagpipes?
Megalopolis.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on February 15, 2021, 11:23:53 AM
Can you play it on your bagpipes?
Only if I use the patented Professor Harold Hill think method.
Quote from: tower912 on February 15, 2021, 11:29:10 AM
Megalopolis.
Yes, thank you. Not sure why I struggled so much remembering this.
It will get ignored though and people will still come ranting at me for apparently insinuating Milwaukee is a suburb :(
Our own Dwyane Wade bailed Coach K out in the 2008 Gold Medal game. Dude is a good coach, but I also think it's fair to say that the game is much more complicated then 1992. I think it's also fair to say that maybe our current head coach could have used some time spent at programs where they didn't recruit only 5 guys or to game plan against teams that have more talent then you...