MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MuggsyB on February 10, 2021, 10:22:18 PM

Title: We need to start over
Post by: MuggsyB on February 10, 2021, 10:22:18 PM
It's truly a dumpster fire.  Yes we have 3 talented players, and some talent coming in, but this isn't close to being a quick fix.  There is zero team cohesion or an identity of any kind. 

The lack of basic fundamentals and poise on this ball club is extremely disturbing.  Our lack of improvement towards the homestretch of the season, seemingly year after year, is equally disastrous.   

Right now we are playing the worst basketball in this conference and may not be a top 150 team.  This is not hyperbole, facts are facts. 
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on February 10, 2021, 10:23:56 PM
Agreed 100%.

No more excuses or reasons to stay the course, especially with the strong likelihood we lose out. Next few weeks will be ugly.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: HutchwasClutch on February 10, 2021, 10:27:21 PM
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 10, 2021, 10:22:18 PM
It's truly a dumpster fire.  Yes we have 3 talented players, and some talent coming in, but this isn't close to being a quick fix.  There is zero team cohesion or an identity of any kind. 

The lack of basic fundamentals and poise on this ball club is extremely disturbing.  Our lack of improvement towards the homestretch of the season, seemingly year after year, is equally disastrous.   

Right now we are playing the worst basketball in this conference and may not be a top 150 team.  This is not hyperbole, facts are facts.

Everything you describe is accurate, and points to a guy totally in over his head coaching at this level. 
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: CountryRoads on February 10, 2021, 10:27:50 PM
If Wojo stays the coach, it'll be a very long offseason with not much to look forward to next year.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: MuggsyB on February 10, 2021, 10:36:16 PM
There have been a number of coaches from smaller schools that have done really well once they were given the opportunity. 
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: CountryRoads on February 10, 2021, 10:40:22 PM
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 10, 2021, 10:36:16 PM
There have been a number of coaches from smaller schools that have done really well once they were given the opportunity.

Yup, and as you mentioned it's a dumpster fire. Having 3 quality players on a high major team is nothing to write home about. Doesn't every good program have some talent coming in? There's nothing to lose by just blowing everything up and starting over.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: MuggsyB on February 10, 2021, 10:50:00 PM
Quote from: CountryRoads on February 10, 2021, 10:40:22 PM
Yup, and as you mentioned it%u2019s a dumpster fire. Having 3 quality players on a high major team is nothing to write home about. Doesn%u2019t every good program have some talent coming in? There%u2019s nothing to lose by just blowing everything up and starting over.

They do CR.  And perhaps with the right coach we could mold this talent with our returning players and recruits.  Let's say they would all come back including Carton if Wojo stays?  I have zero confidence he could make our roster anything but a borderline NCAA tournament team.  So, from my perspective, we have to bite the bullet.

It would be an immediate setback but with the right coach things can change very quickly.  See Beard or Underwood along with others.  I honestly don't think this is debatable anymore because we have 0.0 evidence we have a guy capable of getting us back to the promised land or making a deep NCAA tourney run.  In my mind he is lost and grasping at straws on a regular basis.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: MUfan12 on February 10, 2021, 10:53:56 PM
Just need to look downstairs at the Al. They made a great hire in Duffy, ended up keeping most of the recruits, and they've been outstanding for two years.

Make a good hire and worry about the roster later.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: DFW HOYA on February 10, 2021, 10:56:49 PM
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 10, 2021, 10:22:18 PM
Right now we are playing the worst basketball in this conference...This is not hyperbole, facts are facts.

Georgetown and DePaul might beg to differ on that one. Getting clocked by Villanova has happened to a lot of teams.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: MarquetteMike1977 on February 10, 2021, 10:57:09 PM
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 10, 2021, 10:22:18 PM
It's truly a dumpster fire.  Yes we have 3 talented players, and some talent coming in, but this isn't close to being a quick fix.  There is zero team cohesion or an identity of any kind. 

The lack of basic fundamentals and poise on this ball club is extremely disturbing.  Our lack of improvement towards the homestretch of the season, seemingly year after year, is equally disastrous.   

Right now we are playing the worst basketball in this conference and may not be a top 150 team.  This is not hyperbole, facts are facts.

Agree
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: mileskishnish72 on February 10, 2021, 11:01:38 PM
I think at this stage it is indisputable  that Wojo is unable to get the job done. I am all for starting over, but the powers that be are apparently not interested.

As for our big three, I think Dawson and Justin will be back. What a coaching change would mean for them I can only guess, but these days kids change schools at will. DJ apparently thinks he's an NBA talent. If he enters the draft, he will get a rude surprise. Who is interested ina point with no handle who can't  make a decent pass and is a subpar defender?

If I were in charge I wouldn't worry about player retention if I could get rid of the main problem.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Billy Hoyle on February 10, 2021, 11:12:48 PM
Quote from: CountryRoads on February 10, 2021, 10:27:50 PM
If Wojo stays the coach, it'll be a very long offseason with not much to look forward to next year.

You mean other than seeing where Garcia and Lewis transfer and which signees ask out of their NLI's?
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: muwarrior97 on February 10, 2021, 11:17:02 PM
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 10, 2021, 10:22:18 PM
It's truly a dumpster fire.  Yes we have 3 talented players, and some talent coming in, but this isn't close to being a quick fix.  There is zero team cohesion or an identity of any kind. 

The lack of basic fundamentals and poise on this ball club is extremely disturbing.  Our lack of improvement towards the homestretch of the season, seemingly year after year, is equally disastrous.   

Right now we are playing the worst basketball in this conference and may not be a top 150 team.  This is not hyperbole, facts are facts.

+1

#Facts
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: 94Warrior on February 11, 2021, 12:26:40 AM
Buh Bye.

I'd love for the players and recruits to return, because I feel we have great talent already here and coming in.  But, the bottom line is Wojo is not getting it done, not even close.  He needs to be pole-axed.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: willie warrior on February 11, 2021, 04:07:10 AM
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 10, 2021, 10:22:18 PM
It's truly a dumpster fire.  Yes we have 3 talented players, and some talent coming in, but this isn't close to being a quick fix.  There is zero team cohesion or an identity of any kind. 

The lack of basic fundamentals and poise on this ball club is extremely disturbing.  Our lack of improvement towards the homestretch of the season, seemingly year after year, is equally disastrous.   

Right now we are playing the worst basketball in this conference and may not be a top 150 team.  This is not hyperbole, facts are facts.
Yet there are still guys on this board that believe we will make the dance.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 11, 2021, 04:46:24 AM
Oh yeah, the line dance exits right out da fookin' door, hey?
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: StillWarriors on February 11, 2021, 06:00:13 AM
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 10, 2021, 10:22:18 PM
It's truly a dumpster fire.  Yes we have 3 talented players, and some talent coming in, but this isn't close to being a quick fix.  There is zero team cohesion or an identity of any kind. 

The lack of basic fundamentals and poise on this ball club is extremely disturbing.  Our lack of improvement towards the homestretch of the season, seemingly year after year, is equally disastrous.   

Right now we are playing the worst basketball in this conference and may not be a top 150 team.  This is not hyperbole, facts are facts.

Hard to believe, but harder to disagree. I really feel for the guys on the team as I think they are giving good effort, but it has to be so demoralizing. I especially feel bad for Theo, who has been an absolute Warrior for four years and has improved a lot. To barely taste the NCAA tourney and also not have crowds at all for his senior year or senior day is disappointing, though there likely would not have been much of a crowd showing up for senior day this year the way things are going.

We are officially a dumpster fire at this point. What a shame. It appears the situation that led to, and ultimately the departure of the Hausers will be the watershed moment where Wojo's tenure drove off the cliff. From looking like a pre-season consensus top 5 team to what we are seeing now in just a couple years is staggering. Hard to imagine Wojo building it back.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: vogue65 on February 11, 2021, 06:38:12 AM
Quote from: StillWarriors on February 11, 2021, 06:00:13 AM
Hard to believe, but harder to disagree. I really feel for the guys on the team as I think they are giving good effort, but it has to be so demoralizing. I especially feel bad for Theo, who has been an absolute Warrior for four years and has improved a lot. To barely taste the NCAA tourney and also not have crowds at all for his senior year or senior day is disappointing, though there likely would not have been much of a crowd showing up for senior day this year the way things are going.

We are officially a dumpster fire at this point. What a shame. It appears the situation that led to, and ultimately the departure of the Hausers will be the watershed moment where Wojo's tenure drove off the cliff. From looking like a pre-season consensus top 5 team to what we are seeing now in just a couple years is staggering. Hard to imagine Wojo building it back.

HAUSERS
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Viper on February 11, 2021, 06:40:23 AM
Everything at MU is off kilter these days. Jesuits have seemed to lost their way. Lovell? Failure. I know zip about the AD, but to stick with Wojo and watch this gem of a program die a slow death is inexcusable. MU basketball is traveling the highway of Nebraska football.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: HutchwasClutch on February 11, 2021, 07:20:09 AM
Quote from: StillWarriors on February 11, 2021, 06:00:13 AM

We are officially a dumpster fire at this point. What a shame. It appears the situation that led to, and ultimately the departure of the Hausers will be the watershed moment where Wojo's tenure drove off the cliff. From looking like a pre-season consensus top 5 team to what we are seeing now in just a couple years is staggering. Hard to imagine Wojo building it back.

I'm tired already of the growing narrative here that it all fell apart for Wojo when the Hausers left.  No, that was a symptom of the overall problem that Wojo is in over his head at this level. 

Before their departure, we lost 4 in a row to choke away a conference title, 6 of 7 overall, and were run out of the gym by a mid major in the tournament. A mid major who themselves didn't proceed to any run, but got blasted the next game by a legitimate high major coach. The April 2019 preseason ranking meant nothing, to think they would have come close to living up to such a lofty ranking under Wojo is beyond silly.

Wojo has been in over his head from day 1. Maybe it took the Hausers for people to wake up to that cold reality, but it was not the tipping point where everything was just rolling along just fine for this program and then collapsed. All it did was speed up the overall downfall of this failure of a coach.

Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: SaveOD238 on February 11, 2021, 07:45:51 AM
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 10, 2021, 10:53:56 PM
Just need to look downstairs at the Al. They made a great hire in Duffy, ended up keeping most of the recruits, and they've been outstanding for two years.

Make a good hire and worry about the roster later.

Our women's program is lightyears ahead of our men's program right now.  This year will be five NCAA appearances in a row (if you include 2020) and thats through a coaching change.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on February 11, 2021, 07:51:17 AM
Quote from: Marq3332 on February 11, 2021, 06:40:23 AM
Everything at MU is off kilter these days. Jesuits have seemed to lost their way. Lovell? Failure. I know zip about the AD, but to stick with Wojo and watch this gem of a program die a slow death is inexcusable. MU basketball is traveling the highway of Nebraska football.


I think Scholl has been a decent AD.  This decision is not simply his to make.

(And I have no idea what you mean about the Jesuits.)
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: mileskishnish72 on February 11, 2021, 07:53:18 AM
The folks that get me are the ones who say that if we make a coaching change we are destined for several years of mediocrity. So what's new?
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: muwarrior69 on February 11, 2021, 08:07:31 AM
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 11, 2021, 07:51:17 AM

I think Scholl has been a decent AD.  This decision is not simply his to make.

(And I have no idea what you mean about the Jesuits.)

There are Jesuits at MU?
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: MuggsyB on February 11, 2021, 08:09:55 AM
Quote from: StillWarriors on February 11, 2021, 06:00:13 AM
Hard to believe, but harder to disagree. I really feel for the guys on the team as I think they are giving good effort, but it has to be so demoralizing. I especially feel bad for Theo, who has been an absolute Warrior for four years and has improved a lot. To barely taste the NCAA tourney and also not have crowds at all for his senior year or senior day is disappointing, though there likely would not have been much of a crowd showing up for senior day this year the way things are going.

We are officially a dumpster fire at this point. What a shame. It appears the situation that led to, and ultimately the departure of the Hausers will be the watershed moment where Wojo's tenure drove off the cliff. From looking like a pre-season consensus top 5 team to what we are seeing now in just a couple years is staggering. Hard to imagine Wojo building it back.

I was as excited as anyone when we were a "consensus preseason top 5 team" but it's very difficult to believe (even with H and H) that we could have done much of anything.    That roster, like every other Wojo roster, would not have been able to defend at a reasonable level. 

There has not been a culture or identity established at MU the past 7 seasons.  When you bring in the players Duke has year after year you can beat teams by outscoring them with overwhelming talent.  You can't do that at MU or 99% of schools.  And when things have gone South during the course of a number of seasons the guy has zero answers.  There are no adjustments, no plan B, no consistency whatsoever when it comes to rudimentary fundamentals.

A team is as confident as his/her coach.  I have seen a deer in the headlights look from Wojo the second there is adversity or things are going off the rails.  He looks shell-shocked, lost, and without a scintilla of ability to motivate our players.  These games are essentially lost before they are even played.  And this narrative that we "played hard in the 1st half but didn't give the effort in the 2nd" is complete excrement.  We hear similar nonsense game after game after game.

Many of our astute posters mentioned the play last night where Theo got a T after Gillespie Davisoned.  Wojo stood there, with his arms crossed, about as animated as cardboard cutout.  Where's the fire?  How about standing up for your players?

The honest truth is we have always had an infintesmal margin for error during Wojo's tenure because we have never figured out how to play consistent defense or value the basketball.  This has not changed one iota since 2014.  It's the same conversation and ultimate frustration we have shared together for 7 yrs, reminiscent of an endless horror show.  It's the exact definition of insanity and we are on the road to nowhere.  We have no choice and have to make a change. 
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: cheebs09 on February 11, 2021, 08:24:03 AM
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 11, 2021, 08:09:55 AM
I was as excited as anyone when we were a "consensus preseason top 5 team" but it's very difficult to believe (even with H and H) that we could have done much of anything.    That roster, like every other Wojo roster, would not have been able to defend at a reasonable level. 


Yea, I remember seeing that and thinking ESPN had more faith in Wojo teaching the team to defend than I did.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 11, 2021, 08:28:27 AM
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 11, 2021, 07:51:17 AM

I think Scholl has been a decent AD.  This decision is not simply his to make.

(And I have no idea what you mean about the Jesuits.)

I'll bet you do.   :P
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: PE8983 on February 11, 2021, 08:36:49 AM
The women's team is light years ahead of the men's mainly because Megan Duffy is a far superior coach to Wojo.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: NCMUFan on February 11, 2021, 08:47:09 AM
The Hausers leaving certainly was a roundhouse to the program.
Too bad for Wojo, fans and the program.
Can the new players and recruits take us back to peak Hauser & Markus times?
One more year with Wojo we would find out.
But will people allow that?
Who knows and who cares?
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: DoctorV on February 11, 2021, 09:01:02 AM
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 10, 2021, 10:50:00 PM
They do CR.  And perhaps with the right coach we could mold this talent with our returning players and recruits.  Let's say they would all come back including Carton if Wojo stays?  I have zero confidence he could make our roster anything but a borderline NCAA tournament team.  So, from my perspective, we have to bite the bullet.

It would be an immediate setback but with the right coach things can change very quickly.  See Beard or Underwood along with others.  I honestly don't think this is debatable anymore because we have 0.0 evidence we have a guy capable of getting us back to the promised land or making a deep NCAA tourney run.  In my mind he is lost and grasping at straws on a regular basis.

You are right. The ship has sailed, it's time to move on no questions asked.

I feel confident in saying that because imo even in the best case scenario where everyone returns I just don't see Steve making MU anything more than a low seed NCAA team.
He had his shot with Markus and Sam Hauser but it fell apart and the ship has sailed.

So let's move on... who does MU target?

IMO a rebuild would be a bad idea so then the options become??

Lets spitball a few:

Grand Slam:
1A) Bring back Buzz- obviously this seems out of the realm of possibility for so many reasons. The way it all ended, his top 5 salary (4M$ Per) at AM, his desire to be back home. However, it would be an amazing move by the administration and the fans would love it. Catholic institution reuniting with the religious Texan who always said he will be here as long as they will have him, too good to be true. Fwiw he's struggling in year 2 at AM so there's that.

1B) Nate Oats, for obvious reasons.

Other options:
1) I'd list Porter Moser atop this list but of course it would be a long wish list. Some would say Wardle, others TJO, others Chapman, others bring back Tom Crean (gasp). The list will go on and on if a Wojo termination is announced.

2) Big name coach looking to get back to relevancy. Dudes like slick Rick Pitino and Avery Johnson- I'd actually love either one- and names like Beilein, Hoiberg, etc.

3) Up and coming assistant. Could be MU ties or otherwise.

There will be a lot of options and I'd be ok with anyone from the first two categories, even though such an outside the box move like Chapman would make me nervous. I don't want another up and coming assistant because of Wojo PTSD I suppose, but I think I could stomach a gamble on Stan.

Super early in a process that would take months, but I think the writing is finally on the wall.
Only thing that would change my mind is a BET win and a win or two in the dance

Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: NickelDimer on February 11, 2021, 09:02:35 AM
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on February 11, 2021, 07:53:18 AM
The folks that get me are the ones who say that if we make a coaching change we are destined for several years of mediocrity. So what's new?
It's all they have left
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 11, 2021, 09:12:38 AM
Sorry man, da clock struck midnite. Der ain't know dance dis yeer, hey?
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 11, 2021, 09:15:54 AM
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on February 11, 2021, 07:53:18 AM
The folks that get me are the ones who say that if we make a coaching change we are destined for several years of mediocrity. So what's new?

Who's still saying that?
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: MuggsyB on February 11, 2021, 11:30:34 AM
Quote from: DoctorV on February 11, 2021, 09:01:02 AM
You are right. The ship has sailed, it's time to move on no questions asked.

I feel confident in saying that because imo even in the best case scenario where everyone returns I just don't see Steve making MU anything more than a low seed NCAA team.
He had his shot with Markus and Sam Hauser but it fell apart and the ship has sailed.

So let's move on... who does MU target?

IMO a rebuild would be a bad idea so then the options become??

Lets spitball a few:

Grand Slam:
1A) Bring back Buzz- obviously this seems out of the realm of possibility for so many reasons. The way it all ended, his top 5 salary (4M$ Per) at AM, his desire to be back home. However, it would be an amazing move by the administration and the fans would love it. Catholic institution reuniting with the religious Texan who always said he will be here as long as they will have him, too good to be true. Fwiw he's struggling in year 2 at AM so there's that.

1B) Nate Oats, for obvious reasons.

Other options:
1) I'd list Porter Moser atop this list but of course it would be a long wish list. Some would say Wardle, others TJO, others Chapman, others bring back Tom Crean (gasp). The list will go on and on if a Wojo termination is announced.

2) Big name coach looking to get back to relevancy. Dudes like slick Rick Pitino and Avery Johnson- I'd actually love either one- and names like Beilein, Hoiberg, etc.

3) Up and coming assistant. Could be MU ties or otherwise.

There will be a lot of options and I'd be ok with anyone from the first two categories, even though such an outside the box move like Chapman would make me nervous. I don't want another up and coming assistant because of Wojo PTSD I suppose, but I think I could stomach a gamble on Stan.

Super early in a process that would take months, but I think the writing is finally on the wall.
Only thing that would change my mind is a BET win and a win or two in the dance

Would the Gonzaga #1 assistant c ever leave?  He's been with Few for 20 yrs.  I agree there are lots of guys we can go after but Wardle would not be my choice.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Billy Hoyle on February 11, 2021, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 11, 2021, 11:30:34 AM
Would the Gonzaga #1 assistant c ever leave?  He's been with Few for 20 yrs.  I agree there are lots of guys we can go after but Wardle would not be my choice.

no, he's the (unofficial) coach in waiting.

Plus, GU assistants have not been very successful elsewhere. We need a guy with head coaching experience.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: MuggsyB on February 11, 2021, 11:37:40 AM
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on February 11, 2021, 11:33:26 AM
no, he's the (unofficial) coach in waiting.

Plus, GU assistants have not been very successful elsewhere. We need a guy with head coaching experience.

Who would you target Billy?  Beliein?  Matta?  Moser?  The guy at Winthrop?
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 11, 2021, 11:39:20 AM
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 11, 2021, 11:30:34 AM
Would the Gonzaga #1 assistant c ever leave?  He's been with Few for 20 yrs.  I agree there are lots of guys we can go after but Wardle would not be my choice.

Switch the schools name to Duke and that were said about Wojo a few years back. I'd stay away from the people who've only been with one system.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: MuggsyB on February 11, 2021, 11:44:57 AM
Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 11, 2021, 11:39:20 AM
Switch the schools name to Duke and that were said about Wojo a few years back. I'd stay away from the people who've only been with one system.

I hear ya....was just thinking out loud.  The Anteaters have a fairly successful coach.  Who else is out West besides T.J?

I don't think Wojo's coming back and would not have written this 3 weeks ago. 
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 11, 2021, 11:57:24 AM
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 11, 2021, 11:44:57 AM
I hear ya....was just thinking out loud.  The Anteaters have a fairly successful coach.  Who else is out West besides T.J?

I don't think Wojo's coming back and would not have written this 3 weeks ago.

I don't know about west but if we're looking for coaches with potential and Wisconsin connections to entice them the I'd say Eric Konkol is worth a look. Not exactly a huge splash but he's consistently been winning in a decent league. Have assistant stints at various programs and has put a couple guys in the NBA.

Of course he played for Bo Ryan though...
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: JTJ3 on February 11, 2021, 12:01:35 PM
Oats, Otz, Devries would be my first calls.  All have been successful HCs, run a fun style of play and have strong Wisconsin/midwest ties.  Id also reach out to Thad Matta although lots of question marks with him at this point. 

Casey Alexander, Pat Kelsey, Craig Smith, Bob Richey are interesting options as well, just dont know as much about them.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: muspc2 on February 11, 2021, 12:03:20 PM
    Muggsy's posts in this thread seem to say it all. To put it kindly, WOJO is not a good coach. Overall, his lack of teaching and discipline have shown through for his entire tenure. WOJO getting an occasional 5* and some 4* players may look good in the yearly ranking of incoming recruits, but he has been nowhere near successful enough to just let the team's talent overcome his vast shortcomings as a coach. It is real life wins and losses that ultimately point to a coach's success.  Marquette has a lot of positives as far as being a basketball player is concerned, and those circumstances probably had more impact than a given recruit being sold on playing only for WOJO.
    As of now I am still of the opinion that WOJO should go at the end of this year, but probably will be back. I always want MU to win, but it seems like a lose-lose that he may stay past this year, or an administration that has accepted the same thing for all of WOJO's tenure will be picking his successor. It appears that the only hope is that either (a) WOJO is able to retain and recruit enough talent to outrun his shortcomings, or (b) the administration stumbles upon a coach that can mix coaching and recruiting to equal long term success. I can't say I'm expecting success on either front. 
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Billy Hoyle on February 11, 2021, 12:06:39 PM
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 11, 2021, 11:37:40 AM
Who would you target Billy?  Beliein?  Matta?  Moser?  The guy at Winthrop?

First and foremost, I'd back up a Brinks truck to Nate Oats' house and offer him whatever he wanted. Since that likely won't happen I'd inquire with Matta. Maybe his health problems go away like Urban Meyer's magically did.

But, if either rebuff us (likely) then my top choices would be DeVries at Drake, Medved at Colorado State, TJO, and Kelsey at Winthrop. Jacobson at Northern Iowa may be worth a look too (struggling this year but is coming off a 25 win season and has a demonstrated record of tourney success). His buyout is pretty large, however.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 11, 2021, 12:10:14 PM
Quote from: muspc2 on February 11, 2021, 12:03:20 PM
   It appears that the only hope is that either (a) WOJO is able to retain and recruit enough talent to outrun his shortcomings, or (b) the administration stumbles upon a coach that can mix coaching and recruiting to equal long term success. I can't say I'm expecting success on either front.


The first option came and went with the Hausers. They stay/we don't collapse and this is an entirely different tune. I'd also wager some of those recruits that we went swinging for the fences after would have committed.

But they didn't, it'd take a few years and no transfers between Osa DJ Lewis and maybe Osa along with the incoming class to live up to the hype in order to get his second shot at overcoming shortcomings.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: CountryRoads on February 11, 2021, 12:10:50 PM
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on February 11, 2021, 12:06:39 PM
First and foremost, I'd back up a Brinks truck to Nate Oats' house and offer him whatever he wanted. Since that likely won't happen I'd inquire with Matta. Maybe his health problems go away like Urban Meyer's magically did.

But, if either rebuff us (likely) then my top choices would be DeVries at Drake, Medved at Colorado State, TJO, and Kelsey at Winthrop. Jacobson at Northern Iowa may be worth a look too (struggling this year but is coming off a 25 win season and has a demonstrated record of tourney success). His buyout is pretty large, however.

Oats has a good class coming in as well. Top 10 guard as well as the #2 ranked ju- wait never mind.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: MuggsyB on February 11, 2021, 12:12:59 PM
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on February 11, 2021, 12:06:39 PM
First and foremost, I'd back up a Brinks truck to Nate Oats' house and offer him whatever he wanted. Since that likely won't happen I'd inquire with Matta. Maybe his health problems go away like Urban Meyer's magically did.

But, if either rebuff us (likely) then my top choices would be DeVries at Drake, Medved at Colorado State, TJO, and Kelsey at Winthrop. Jacobson at Northern Iowa may be worth a look too (struggling this year but is coming off a 25 win season and has a demonstrated record of tourney success). His buyout is pretty large, however.

Jacobson is an interesting name.  He's had a lot of success despite having some rough seasons here and there.  Am I crazy to think all of these possibilities would be exponentially better than what we have right now?  The bottom line Billy is I think we have plenty of options. 
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: MuggsyB on February 11, 2021, 12:15:28 PM
Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 11, 2021, 12:10:14 PM

The first option came and went with the Hausers. They stay/we don't collapse and this is an entirely different tune. I'd also wager some of those recruits that we went swinging for the fences after would have committed.

But they didn't, it'd take a few years and no transfers between Osa DJ Lewis and maybe Osa along with the incoming class to live up to the hype in order to get his second shot at overcoming shortcomings.

If H and H stayed I'm not sold we would win a tourney game.  We would certainly make the tournament but most likely it would be a quick exit with our defensive ineptitude.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: BM1090 on February 11, 2021, 12:17:00 PM
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 11, 2021, 12:12:59 PM
Jacobson is an interesting name.  He's had a lot of success despite having some rough seasons here and there.  Am I crazy to think all of these possibilities would be exponentially better than what we have right now?  The bottom line Billy is I think we have plenty of options.

The question is whether they'll be able to recruit to this level. They will certainly be better in-game coaches than what we have now.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Billy Hoyle on February 11, 2021, 12:46:34 PM
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 11, 2021, 12:12:59 PM
Jacobson is an interesting name.  He's had a lot of success despite having some rough seasons here and there.  Am I crazy to think all of these possibilities would be exponentially better than what we have right now?  The bottom line Billy is I think we have plenty of options.

Forgot about Luke Yaklich at UIC. He is in his first year as a HC but was an important #1 assistant at Michigan and Texas. He'd be a very intriguing hire.

And no, you are not crazy to think they would be better than we have now. And, we could likely get any of the second group for less than we're paying Wojo now.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on February 11, 2021, 02:56:35 PM
Quote from: CountryRoads on February 11, 2021, 12:10:50 PM
Oats has a good class coming in as well. Top 10 guard as well as the #2 ranked ju- wait never mind.
How many can he bring along to Marquette?
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on February 11, 2021, 02:59:34 PM
Quote from: DoctorV on February 11, 2021, 09:01:02 AM


Bring back Buzz

Great, forget St. Louis, now we're just like De Paul
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Johnny B on February 11, 2021, 04:14:23 PM
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on February 11, 2021, 12:06:39 PM
First and foremost, I'd back up a Brinks truck to Nate Oats' house and offer him whatever he wanted. Since that likely won't happen I'd inquire with Matta. Maybe his health problems go away like Urban Meyer's magically did.

But, if either rebuff us (likely) then my top choices would be DeVries at Drake, Medved at Colorado State, TJO, and Kelsey at Winthrop. Jacobson at Northern Iowa may be worth a look too (struggling this year but is coming off a 25 win season and has a demonstrated record of tourney success). His buyout is pretty large, however.
what could they even offer him that bama cant? can they even match his pay? oats is pie
in the sky
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 11, 2021, 04:33:50 PM
Quote from: Johnny B on February 11, 2021, 04:14:23 PM
what could they even offer him that bama cant? can they even match his pay? oats is pie
in the sky

Bama basketball doesn't get the same amount of money as Bama football.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Holy hell all time on February 11, 2021, 05:03:52 PM
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 11, 2021, 04:33:50 PM
Bama basketball doesn't get the same amount of money as Bama football.

I'd still imagine he's paid more than Wojo. Then you have to pay Wojo's and Oats's buyout.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: shoothoops on February 11, 2021, 05:11:49 PM
Oats' total pay is considered to be anywhere from $2.5 to $3 Million. (Avery Johnson made more than that)

Coleman Coliseum is undergoing a $115 Million renovation.

While no, Alabama basketball doesn't get the same amount of money as Alabama football, they aren't exactly passing the hat around for loose change either.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Herman Cain on February 11, 2021, 05:30:13 PM
Quote from: shoothoops on February 11, 2021, 05:11:49 PM
Oats' total pay is considered to be anywhere from $2.5 to $3 Million. (Avery Johnson made more than that)

Coleman Coliseum is undergoing a $115 Million renovation.

While no, Alabama basketball doesn't get the same amount of money as Alabama football, they aren't exactly passing the hat around for loose change either.
Also a huge built in recruiting advantage when Football returns post covid. Kids love being entertained at those games.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: goldeneagle91114 on February 11, 2021, 05:48:30 PM
Anyone who thinks the perceptions voiced on this board is just those of negative Marquette fans should watch this:
https://twitter.com/TheFieldOf68/sta...519886339?s=20
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Jockey on February 11, 2021, 07:47:06 PM
Quote from: Johnny B on February 11, 2021, 04:14:23 PM
what could they even offer him that bama cant? can they even match his pay? oats is pie
in the sky

Our beautiful weather.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: MuggsyB on February 11, 2021, 08:07:30 PM
Would Tad Boyle be on the list?
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: HutchwasClutch on February 11, 2021, 09:30:29 PM
Quote from: Johnny B on February 11, 2021, 04:14:23 PM
what could they even offer him that bama cant? can they even match his pay? oats is pie
in the sky

Agree Oats will be very difficult to get. Unless he really wants to come back home to Wisconsin.  And while he has strong WI roots, they're not in Milwaukee metro area.  So maybe we wouldn't have any "home field" advantage in luring him away.

Plus, if he keeps Alabama going like they're off to this year, he's going to have his pick of higher profile and paying jobs than we can offer him. 

No harm in trying though.  He'd be a home run hire.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on February 11, 2021, 10:12:05 PM
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 11, 2021, 08:07:30 PM
Would Tad Boyle be on the list?

Boyle is from Colorado and has repeatedly said it is his dream job.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 12, 2021, 06:40:44 AM
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 11, 2021, 09:30:29 PM
Agree Oats will be very difficult to get. Unless he really wants to come back home to Wisconsin.  And while he has strong WI roots, they're not in Milwaukee metro area.  So maybe we wouldn't have any "home field" advantage in luring him away.

Plus, if he keeps Alabama going like they're off to this year, he's going to have his pick of higher profile and paying jobs than we can offer him. 

No harm in trying though.  He'd be a home run hire.

It's 48 miles from Milwaukee to Watertown.  Just sayin'.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: swoopem on February 12, 2021, 06:58:17 AM
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 11, 2021, 09:30:29 PM
Agree Oats will be very difficult to get. Unless he really wants to come back home to Wisconsin.  And while he has strong WI roots, they're not in Milwaukee metro area.  So maybe we wouldn't have any "home field" advantage in luring him away.

Plus, if he keeps Alabama going like they're off to this year, he's going to have his pick of higher profile and paying jobs than we can offer him. 

No harm in trying though.  He'd be a home run hire.

I know someone here in Detroit that is still close to Oats and he says Nate is very happy at Bama. He's by far my number 1 choice but I'd be shocked if he came. He's making 3.2 mill so I'm guessing we'd have to offer 3.6-4 and I don't see our admin doing that. They should, but they won't
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Warrior of Law on February 12, 2021, 07:10:51 AM
What would Hank and Majerus recommend?  I think they'd suggest moving on, and they'd like Moser.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 12, 2021, 08:33:19 AM
Quote from: Warrior of Law on February 12, 2021, 07:10:51 AM
What would Hank and Majerus recommend?  I think they'd suggest moving on, and they'd like Moser.

You been talking with Lazar, aina?
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Galway Eagle on February 12, 2021, 08:34:08 AM
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 12, 2021, 08:33:19 AM
You been talking with Lazar, aina?

Hahaha nice
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: willie warrior on February 12, 2021, 01:57:45 PM
Quote from: DFW HOYA on February 10, 2021, 10:56:49 PM
Georgetown and DePaul might beg to differ on that one. Getting clocked by Villanova has happened to a lot of teams.
Oh boy. A new excuse!
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: willie warrior on February 12, 2021, 02:02:34 PM
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 11, 2021, 07:20:09 AM
I'm tired already of the growing narrative here that it all fell apart for Wojo when the Hausers left.  No, that was a symptom of the overall problem that Wojo is in over his head at this level. 

Before their departure, we lost 4 in a row to choke away a conference title, 6 of 7 overall, and were run out of the gym by a mid major in the tournament. A mid major who themselves didn't proceed to any run, but got blasted the next game by a legitimate high major coach. The April 2019 preseason ranking meant nothing, to think they would have come close to living up to such a lofty ranking under Wojo is beyond silly.

Wojo has been in over his head from day 1. Maybe it took the Hausers for people to wake up to that cold reality, but it was not the tipping point where everything was just rolling along just fine for this program and then collapsed. All it did was speed up the overall downfall of this failure of a coach.
Nah. Not many realized that Wojo fooked up the Hauser fiasco, and there were some that said fook them they did not want to be here anyway. That notwithstanding 2 straight years of collapsing down the stretch. The Wojo worshippers continued to slurp his kool aid. It now appears that there are a few less Wojo worshippers.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: Class71 on February 12, 2021, 06:11:32 PM
Quote from: SaveOD238 on February 11, 2021, 07:45:51 AM
Our women's program is lightyears ahead of our men's program right now.  This year will be five NCAA appearances in a row (if you include 2020) and thats through a coaching change.

Maybe we could hire the women's coach for the men's team. They seem to do a good job over there.
Title: Re: We need to start over
Post by: brewcity77 on February 12, 2021, 06:53:08 PM
Quote from: Class71 on February 12, 2021, 06:11:32 PM
Maybe we could hire the women's coach for the men's team. They seem to do a good job over there.

I'd replace Wojo with Duffy in a heartbeat.
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