No tower, so here's my thoughts...
- I believe Sultan mentioned the story of his son asking "why do you watch this s**t" about the MU/DePaul game. That's how I felt watching two teams combine for 22 points in the first 12 minutes. Bad basketball on both sides.
- Lost the turnover battle 15-8, lost offensive rebounds 12-3, and that's the game. Can't give the opponent that many more times to score.
- I'm ready to say the loss of Stan was bigger than we realized. Has anyone else noticed that instead of running plays in ATO & BOOB situations, we just bomb passes to midcourt?
- What did Akanno do to get those early minutes ahead of Greg?
- The staff doesn't understand modern basketball, part one: Torrence taking a 3 with 20 seconds in the half, guaranteeing PC got another full possession. They didn't score, but that was really stupid basketball. The team needs to understand time and situation better than that.
- Garcia has 7 made shots & 9 turnovers in the past 3 games.
- Second half defense was good. Offense was good once it adjusted to the zone.
- Would be nice if Carton could play 40 minutes. He has phenomenal stretches, but equally frustrating stretches in the same game.
- Just had nothing left in overtime.
- The staff doesn't understand modern basketball, part two: Why on Earth are we fouling down 7 with 10 seconds left? Two more points, hurts our efficiency metrics, NET, kenpom, stupidity like that makes it more difficult to get to the tournament.
- I still love this team. I still watch them and cheer for them. But man, that was not fun to watch.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 27, 2021, 09:37:03 PM
No tower, so here's my thoughts...
- I believe Sultan mentioned the story of his son asking "why do you watch this s**t" about the MU/DePaul game. That's how I felt watching two teams combine for 22 points in the first 12 minutes. Bad basketball on both sides.
- Lost the turnover battle 15-8, lost offensive rebounds 12-3, and that's the game. Can't give the opponent that many more times to score.
- I'm ready to say the loss of Stan was bigger than we realized. Has anyone else noticed that instead of running plays in ATO & BOOB situations, we just bomb passes to midcourt?
- What did Akanno do to get those early minutes ahead of Greg?
- The staff doesn't understand modern basketball, part one: Torrence taking a 3 with 20 seconds in the half, guaranteeing PC got another full possession. They didn't score, but that was really stupid basketball. The team needs to understand time and situation better than that.
- Garcia has 7 made shots & 9 turnovers in the past 3 games.
- Second half defense was good. Offense was good once it adjusted to the zone.
- Would be nice if Carton could play 40 minutes. He has phenomenal stretches, but equally frustrating stretches in the same game.
- Just had nothing left in overtime.
- The staff doesn't understand modern basketball, part two: Why on Earth are we fouling down 7 with 10 seconds left? Two more points, hurts our efficiency metrics, NET, kenpom, stupidity like that makes it more difficult to get to the tournament.
- I still love this team. I still watch them and cheer for them. But man, that was not fun to watch.
The first half was beyond brutal, but I thought we played well in the second half. Big missed FTs by DJ and Garcia, and that last possession in regulation was brutal. We need a PG and a real post scorer in the worst way.
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 27, 2021, 09:42:39 PM
The first half was beyond brutal, but I thought we played well in the second half. Big missed FTs by DJ and Garcia, and that last possession in regulation was brutal. We need a PG and a real post scorer in the worst way.
Your thoughts on the last possession before overtime?
Wojo said Dexter got in early because he had a good week of practice and wanted to reward him for that.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 27, 2021, 09:45:03 PM
Your thoughts on the last possession before overtime?
I believe I described it a brutal. Koby slipped and all, but the play was blown up and we weren't getting anything but a prayer at that point anyway.
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 27, 2021, 09:49:12 PM
I believe I described it a brutal. Koby slipped and all, but the play was blown up and we weren't getting anything but a prayer at that point anyway.
We had the ball with 29 secs in a tie game and got that shot? Abysmal execution and coaching. DJ didn't look to attack until 8 secs? Can't happen.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 27, 2021, 09:37:03 PM
- The staff doesn't understand modern basketball, part two: Why on Earth are we fouling down 7 with 10 seconds left? Two more points, hurts our efficiency metrics, NET, kenpom, stupidity like that makes it more difficult to get to the tournament.
It's quaint you still think this matters.
It doesn't.
Quote from: dgies9156 on January 27, 2021, 09:59:15 PM
It's quaint you still think this matters.
It doesn't.
It's amusing that anyone doesn't realize it absolutely does.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 27, 2021, 09:54:51 PM
We had the ball with 29 secs in a tie game and got that shot? Abysmal execution and coaching. DJ didn't look to attack until 8 secs? Can't happen.
8 seconds is typical for any team in a tie game.
The play and/or execution was awful.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 27, 2021, 10:01:20 PM
It's amusing that anyone doesn't realize it absolutely does.
I'll assume dgies was saying it doesn't matter to us this season cause we aren't gonna make the tourney regardless
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 27, 2021, 10:22:55 PM
I'll assume dgies was saying it doesn't matter to us this season cause we aren't gonna make the tourney regardless
It wasn't about this season. It's about the staff and not understanding the modern game. It's been a problem for years. This staff clearly doesn't understand the metrics that determine their ability to succeed.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 27, 2021, 09:37:03 PM
No tower, so here's my thoughts...
- I believe Sultan mentioned the story of his son
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Thought we played well overall. Defense was solid throughout. Offense took too long to adjust but once it did it was clinical. Difference in regulation was providence getting to the double bonus before MU got to 5 fouls.
With 15 seconds left, I'm a fan of not calling a timeout. With 27 seconds left, Id call a timeout. Mistake on Wojos part.
Agree with brew that staff needs to call off the dogs off earlier. Computer numbers are important.
If the season wasn't in such a desperate state, this one wouldn't have bothered me much. Since that's not where we are...3 more regular season losses and im ready for Wojo to be gone
Quote from: We R Final Four on January 27, 2021, 10:45:07 PM
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Might've been somewhere else, but that was pretty much the story. Watching the DePaul game, got up and walked out, saying "I don't know why you watch this s**t" because it simply isn't very entertaining basketball.
Quote from: brewcity77 link=topic=61326.msg1302300#msg1302300
*] I'm ready to say the loss of Stan was bigger than we realized. Has anyone else noticed that instead of running plays in ATO & BOOB situations, we just bomb passes to midcourt?
I've been bitching about this 4th grade girls base line OOB Plays all year. Not only do we not score.......we turn the ball over....on our inbound play.
Two things about that.....Wojo and his team seem to accept that as part of the game. In the last two games we have seen JL and DG foul...yes FUCKING foul on OUR inbound play. We didn't score. We didn't get fouled. We fouled. And you know what? It. Happened. The. Very. Next. Game.
As a coach of 4th grade girls....we change things out. But, for some reason Wojo doesn't. Hard to cheer for that.
Quote from: We R Final Four on January 27, 2021, 10:52:30 PM
I've been bitching about this 4th grade girls base line OOB Plays all year. Not only do we not score.......we turn the ball over....on our inbound play.
Two things about that.....Wojo and his team seem to accept that as part of the game. In the last two games we have seen JL and DG foul...yes unnatural carnal knowledgeING foul on OUR inbound play. We didn't score. We didn't get fouled. We fouled. And you know what? It. Happened. The. Very. Next. Game.
As a coach of 4th grade girls....we change things out. But, for some reason Wojo doesn't. Hard to cheer for that.
Yeah, I feel like we have gone from a very good ATO/BOOB team to a terrible one. Maybe it's Howard, but maybe it's Stan. After all, LMU is much better at ATO situations this year.
I liked aggressive and involved DJ. Wojo needs to turn him loose the rest of the way, offensively and defensively.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 27, 2021, 10:55:04 PM
Yeah, I feel like we have gone from a very good ATO/BOOB team to a terrible one. Maybe it's Howard, but maybe it's Stan. After all, LMU is much better at ATO situations this year.
Our only OOB of success is the "catch them napping" lob to Jamal. Wojo will keep trying it...but those days are over.
I predicted tonight that you will see oppositingvteams go after the "safety" pass deep into the backcourt. Guess what....not a steal but a deflection.
Imagine telling DJ(2 TOS on OOB btw)if there is nothing there throw it 60 feet and hope that works.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 27, 2021, 10:43:22 PM
It wasn't about this season. It's about the staff and not understanding the modern game. It's been a problem for years. This staff clearly doesn't understand the metrics that determine their ability to succeed.
I could have sworn the announcer mentioning that Wojo was calling for no fouls and was surprised that we fouled anyway. I may have misinterpreted.
Scoop
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on January 27, 2021, 10:57:07 PM
I liked aggressive and involved DJ. Wojo needs to turn him loose the rest of the way, offensively and defensively.
Also Scoop: "Our offense sucks because we play hero ball too much."
I believe some people, sometimes, don't understand how it often works with good, solid, Freshman players.
Let's take Garcia and Lewis. They are good recruits, they are playing often, showing flashes, ups and downs typical of Freshman etc...getting better steadily for future seasons, sometimes hitting Freshman challenges.
What this means is you need to have other more experienced players as some of your main sources of production. This is where MU has challenges with roster construction. It also often times can take bigs longer to develop. String together multiple balanced classes in recruiting. Greg's injuries were unfortunate as he would otherwise be that type of player. But we've known a long time that will able to contribute off of the bench for periods, Greg is limited with his injuries.
My focus is often on the more experienced players. Where are the go to veteran players on the team?
From just a basketball point of view, MU doesn't have the handles to pound the dribble to not play without spacing, ball movement, and moving without the ball, making the extra pass.
Last night, Theo was a physical mismatch on offense, and the ball often went through him. However, he doesn't have the polished offensive skills to successfully do that for more than part of a game.
Quote from: shoothoops on January 28, 2021, 08:52:31 AM
I believe some people, sometimes, don't understand how it often works with good, solid, Freshman players.
Let's take Garcia and Lewis. They are good recruits, they are playing often, showing flashes, ups and downs typical of Freshman etc...getting better steadily for future seasons, sometimes hitting Freshman challenges.
What this means is you need to have other more experienced players as some of your main sources of production. This is where MU has challenges with roster construction. It also often times can take bigs longer to develop. String together multiple balanced classes in recruiting. Greg's injuries were unfortunate as he would otherwise be that type of player. But we've known a long time that will able to contribute off of the bench for periods, Greg is limited with his injuries.
My focus is often on the more experienced players. Where are the go to veteran players on the team?
From just a basketball point of view, MU doesn't have the handles to pound the dribble to not play without spacing, ball movement, and moving without the ball, making the extra pass.
Last night, Theo was a physical mismatch on offense, and the ball often went through him. However, he doesn't have the polished offensive skills to successfully do that for more than part of a game.
And that's where I lose hope with Wojo. We aren't improving as the year goes on, and the upperclassmen are still making the same mistakes.
The number of times we travel before dribbling is infuriating. I think Koby does it at least once a game, and could probably be called for more. Theo gets the same fouls and always looks stunned. The goaltend last gamewas kind of my breaking point as we've lost a number of points due to goaltending shots that have no chance of going in.
It's not just the inconsistency of young players that we are seeing, but still the same mistakes from experienced players that doesn't seem to change. At some point, that's a coaching fail.
Quote from: cheebs09 on January 28, 2021, 08:58:06 AM
And that's where I lose hope with Wojo. We aren't improving as the year goes on, and the upperclassmen are still making the same mistakes.
The number of times we travel before dribbling is infuriating. I think Koby does it at least once a game, and could probably be called for more. Theo gets the same fouls and always looks stunned. The goaltend last gamewas kind of my breaking point as we've lost a number of points due to goaltending shots that have no chance of going in.
It's not just the inconsistency of young players that we are seeing, but still the same mistakes from experienced players that doesn't seem to change. At some point, that's a coaching fail.
I can put up with rebuilding years if I had faith in the coach doing the rebuilding.
And when one looks at roster construction for next year, MU looks thin at the 2 and 3 for both immediate production and depth.
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 28, 2021, 07:51:44 AM
I could have sworn the announcer mentioning that Wojo was calling for no fouls and was surprised that we fouled anyway. I may have misinterpreted.
You heard correct. Andrew Catalon (CBSSN) said that.
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 28, 2021, 07:51:44 AM
I could have sworn the announcer mentioning that Wojo was calling for no fouls and was surprised that we fouled anyway. I may have misinterpreted.
The announcer did say that, but watching that situation basically play out twice in a game where we gave extra opportunities & watching these sorts of lapses in general leads me to give this staff less leeway than I would if I believed they and the team had a firm grasp of understanding the importance of metrics in the modern game.
I'd really like DJ to realize that is by far our most talented player and be aggressive from the start. I don't (ever again) want to see Markus-like usage, just him forcing the action, driving, and looking to initiate the action much more aggressively.
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 28, 2021, 07:51:44 AM
I could have sworn the announcer mentioning that Wojo was calling for no fouls and was surprised that we fouled anyway. I may have misinterpreted.
I think this happens often, where Wojo gives instruction and it seems like it is just ignored. But the inability of players to execute to Wojo's vision is ultimately on Wojo.
Quote from: TSmith34 on January 28, 2021, 09:45:34 AM
I'd really like DJ to realize that is by far our most talented player and be aggressive from the start. I don't (ever again) want to see Markus-like usage, just him forcing the action, driving, and looking to initiate the action much more aggressively.
The whole team needs to play more aggressively.
Like der hare is on fire. aina?
Quote from: tower912 on January 28, 2021, 11:37:08 AM
The whole team needs to play more aggressively.
I agree, and it starts on defense. They suck in a zone/passive man. Switching it up and throwing some pressure/trapping into the mix has been a shot in the arm at times this season. I'd like to see more of it when they need a boost.
The thing that strikes me is a consistent lack of team speed. I started a thread about the hole in Wojo's recruiting being a lack of switchables. There aren't any on this team. There aren't any in the next class. Probably the closest thing to a switchable that Wojo has recruited is Sacar. I hoped Dexter would be the next, but the jury is out on that. Both are really just big guards.
So, playing aggressively on defense. All for it. Unless of course there is a lack of lateral quickness and recovery. Switching everything. Love it. Until Theo ends up on Gillespie. Swarming, trapping, my dream scenario. With Dawson? Very talented. Not fast.
Offensively, no switchables. No dead eye shooters. Muggsy wants a motion offense with off the ball screening and cutting, a la old IU teams or even the one dream run from Florida Gulf Coast. Get it. Love the concept. With two out of the three of Theo, Lewis, and Garcia on the floor, who is going to be running off screens? Greg? Love it. Get him more shots. Until he dribbles. Jamal? Could he come off a screen, catch the ball, turn and shoot? Haven't seen it. If they close fast and he gives an upfake, then he steps to the side and shoots the 3? Haven't seen it. Next option, fake and start *(shudder, gasp) dribbling. Koby? Actually, sign me up for that. Dropping Garcia/Lewis down to the low block area and having Greg and running off low cross screens actually makes a lot of sense. Until the opponent catches on and starts jumping the pass. Also leaves no one to set the high screen until after the two wings have crossed and not gotten the ball. Then you can go into your 3 out/2 in motion, but with 10-12 left on the clock.
Quote from: tower912 on January 28, 2021, 12:12:32 PM
The thing that strikes me is a consistent lack of team speed. I started a thread about the hole in Wojo's recruiting being a lack of switchables. There aren't any on this team. There aren't any in the next class. Probably the closest thing to a switchable that Wojo has recruited is Sacar. I hoped Dexter would be the next, but the jury is out on that. Both are really just big guards.
So, playing aggressively on defense. All for it. Unless of course there is a lack of lateral quickness and recovery. Switching everything. Love it. Until Theo ends up on Gillespie. Swarming, trapping, my dream scenario. With Dawson? Very talented. Not fast.
Offensively, no switchables. No dead eye shooters. Muggsy wants a motion offense with off the ball screening and cutting, a la old IU teams or even the one dream run from Florida Gulf Coast. Get it. Love the concept. With two out of the three of Theo, Lewis, and Garcia on the floor, who is going to be running off screens? Greg? Love it. Get him more shots. Until he dribbles. Jamal? Could he come off a screen, catch the ball, turn and shoot? Haven't seen it. If they close fast and he gives an upfake, then he steps to the side and shoots the 3? Haven't seen it. Next option, fake and start *(shudder, gasp) dribbling. Koby? Actually, sign me up for that. Dropping Garcia/Lewis down to the low block area and having Greg and running off low cross screens actually makes a lot of sense. Until the opponent catches on and starts jumping the pass. Also leaves no one to set the high screen until after the two wings have crossed and not gotten the ball. Then you can go into your 3 out/2 in motion, but with 10-12 left on the clock.
A couple of things I often look for...
1) Lateral Quickness. Can you stay in front of your man and defend?
2) Can this player create his own shot if need be, if the offense breaks down?
Wojo's teams have lacked elite athleticism on the whole, and as you say, switchables, players that can play multiple positions.
The athletic 2/3 players with some length, that can play a 1 or 4 in a pinch too, that has a handle, can shoot it, defend, create turnovers etc...
Quote from: tower912 on January 28, 2021, 12:12:32 PM
The thing that strikes me is a consistent lack of team speed.
This is where the idea of Wojo losing the team and lack of effort/toughness comes from, IMO. We are usually beaten to loose balls and it sure looks like lack of effort, when we are more likely just slow to the ball.