MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: dking0213 on January 11, 2021, 12:10:07 PM
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Looking at the current bracketology and noticing Texas at 1 defiantly made me think about what our program could have achieved under Shaka. In my view he has a lot more success here than he did at Texas early on and we would have likely been to at least a Sweet 16 by now. Thoughts?
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Shame his wife vetoed it after it looked like he was coming.
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Shame his wife vetoed it after it looked like he was coming.
That's a fun and easy narrative but MU was a shytshow back then.
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Well, that was one part of it. AD and president issues as well.
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Shaka recruited some incredible studs to Texas and yet in his first 5 seasons he had no more success there than Wojo had here. He might have done better here ... or he might have done worse. We'll never know.
But it's always fun to speculate!
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nobody wins when you play "imagine if...."
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I’m not convinced Shaka is still here if he had success.
Has he adjusted his style? I was always concerned he never won a Regular Season conference title at VCU. Don’t get me wrong, I was excited at the idea of him coming here. Just wasn’t sure his style would translate and he was a flash in the pan with the Final Four run.
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I couldn't stand TC from the jump and even as he won, he rubbed me the wrong way. BUT I never argued he was a bad hire bc he was arguably the best hire of that 1999 class. Maybe the same with Wojo. What it shows you is how hard it is to find a really good coach. I don't see anything in Shaka that tells me he's better than Wojo. The only thing Shaka would have won was the press conference.
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Well, that was one part of it. AD and president issues as well.
And a new conference...and new recruiting and student athlete guidelines...and the fact that the most successful coach since Al was driven/drove himself out of town...and that there was acrimony among the guy willing to write the check versus the new guard who didn’t want him to be the overlord.
Why would any high potential head coach walk into that shytshow when he and his wife knew the next offer that comes along will be bigger and better? Mrs. Shaka was right.
MU’s choice was then down to current head coaches running away from their pasts or the Golden PPT top assistants who could run a squeaky clean program. They picked the best candidate that met their criteria. The problem was and is that many fans/alums still don’t admit that the criteria changed from the past, and the admin hasn’t communicated or admitted that to their alumni base.
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In retrospect, I wonder how much Shaka went through this out of respect to Doc. And maybe even started to be swayed.
And then either Mrs. Shaka agreed to play "bad cop" or that's just the narrative that was built around a joint decision made after people left the room. ("Thank you for the opportunity, but Mrs. Shaka and I would rather stay here.")
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Well, that was one part of it. AD and president issues as well.
Agree, Didn't Larry force the Freshman to stay in the general dorms their first year, compared to the basketball/sports dorms they could stay in for their entire time at Marquette, prior to his arrival.
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I couldn't stand TC from the jump and even as he won, he rubbed me the wrong way. BUT I never argued he was a bad hire bc he was arguably the best hire of that 1999 class. Maybe the same with Wojo. What it shows you is how hard it is to find a really good coach. I don't see anything in Shaka that tells me he's better than Wojo. The only thing Shaka would have won was the press conference.
Probably a lot of truth in this statement. All in all Marquette appears to have done pretty well with Kevin O'Neil, Tom Crean, Buzz Williams. Some will argue that Wojo has been anywhere from disappointment to a failure, but he might also fall into this category that he was the best hire available at the time. Should Wojo continue to be the Marquette head coach? Let the debate begin.
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Agree, Didn't Larry force the Freshman to stay in the general dorms their first year, compared to the basketball/sports dorms they could stay in for their entire time at Marquette, prior to his arrival.
he did, but he had to make that decision. There were reportedly NCAA and Title IX issues that led to it.
Before TC, freshmen hoops players stayed in the freshman halls. I always tried to imagine Mac in McCormick with a roommate.
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In my opinion Marquette is a harder school to recruit to than Texas. Big state school with football is easier to recruit to than small private university with no football. Wojo works very hard on recruiting and misses on a lot of big time players. Wojo would have more success at Texas.
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he did, but he had to make that decision. There were reportedly NCAA and Title IX issues that led to it.
Before TC, freshmen hoops players stayed in the freshman halls. I always tried to imagine Mac in McCormick with a roommate.
Freshman MU scholarship basketball players lived in Humphrey Hall when Kevin O' Neill was coach.
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Shaka recruited some incredible studs to Texas and yet in his first 5 seasons he had no more success there than Wojo had here. He might have done better here ... or he might have done worse. We'll never know.
But it's always fun to speculate!
He did, and it's all speculation, but he was one of the unluckiest coaches in that regard. His third year he lost his leading scorer and arguably best player to leukemia two months into the season. The next year, Kerwin Roach gets injured down the stretch & they lose 4/5 without him, missing the NCAAs, then win the NIT. After that fringe top-100 freshman Jaxson Hayes goes to the NBA draft as a one-and-done, a player Smart usually would've expected to have for 3-4 years. Even without Hayes in 2020, they were fighting for a bid when they lost starters Jase Febres & Jericho Sims in back to back games (and probably still would've got in).
Obviously everyone has their sob stories, but leukemia, a sub-100 freshman going one-and-done, and repeatedly losing starters in the last 5-6 games of the year is pretty bad misfortune.
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Shame his wife vetoed it after it looked like he was coming.
That was a sad and frustrating day Tower.
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He did, and it's all speculation, but he was one of the unluckiest coaches in that regard. His third year he lost his leading scorer and arguably best player to leukemia two months into the season. The next year, Kerwin Roach gets injured down the stretch & they lose 4/5 without him, missing the NCAAs, then win the NIT. After that fringe top-100 freshman Jaxson Hayes goes to the NBA draft as a one-and-done, a player Smart usually would've expected to have for 3-4 years. Even without Hayes in 2020, they were fighting for a bid when they lost starters Jase Febres & Jericho Sims in back to back games (and probably still would've got in).
Obviously everyone has their sob stories, but leukemia, a sub-100 freshman going one-and-done, and repeatedly losing starters in the last 5-6 games of the year is pretty bad misfortune.
Fair.
Some might call those "excuses," but they also are facts.
Shaka appears to have the horses this year, and Texas is playing great. They're winning close games, plus they got that blowout over Kansas. Maybe this finally will be the year it all comes together for him at Texas.
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Speaking of Shaka and why patience is smart.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/30692026/shaka-smart-why-pays-patience-college-basketball-coaches (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/30692026/shaka-smart-why-pays-patience-college-basketball-coaches)
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Fair.
Some might call those "excuses," but they also are facts.
Agree completely, and similar arguments could be made at least for 2019 (Markus' injury) and 2020 (improbable Hauser transfer) in Wojo's favor.
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I think one of the more interesting points with Shaka at Texas is that he really hasn't attempted to duplicate "Havoc" with Texas' players. He has really adapted his playing style to the more elite players that he is now able to recruit and attract.
In comparison, Wojo has - in my opinion - really attempted to duplicate and translate the Duke style of play at Marquette (and still is, IMO).
I fairly confident that if Shaka was hired at MU, and he moved away from Havoc, and he struggled, the response to Shaka would have been to the same to Wojo. Winning solves everything.
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he did, but he had to make that decision. There were reportedly NCAA and Title IX issues that led to it.
Before TC, freshmen hoops players stayed in the freshman halls. I always tried to imagine Mac in McCormick with a roommate.
I was at MU from 93-97. KO & Deane. Freshman scholarship players all lived in Humphery for their 4 years.
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I was at MU from 93-97. KO & Deane. Freshman scholarship players all lived in Humphery for their 4 years.
I believe that was the case until 2012. And from what I remember it was in response to the assault allegations.
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I was at MU from 93-97. KO & Deane. Freshman scholarship players all lived in Humphery for their 4 years.
Interesting, because I remember Shaw in McCormick.
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Interesting, because I remember Shaw in McCormick.
Ice cream machine?
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I think one of the more interesting points with Shaka at Texas is that he really hasn't attempted to duplicate "Havoc" with Texas' players. He has really adapted his playing style to the more elite players that he is now able to recruit and attract.
In comparison, Wojo has - in my opinion - really attempted to duplicate and translate the Duke style of play at Marquette (and still is, IMO).
I fairly confident that if Shaka was hired at MU, and he moved away from Havoc, and he struggled, the response to Shaka would have been to the same to Wojo. Winning solves everything.
Superb point.
Shaka's first five years were at best only as good as Wojo's first five at Marquette, probably not even quite as good.
But Year 6 could be the separator. While Wojo would have gotten us back to the NCAA, we would have limped in despite another late-season collapse. Meanwhile, Shaka has Texas rolling; many talking heads are calling them a possible 1-seed.
We'll see. Lots of season left.
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Superb point.
Shaka's first five years were at best only as good as Wojo's first five at Marquette, probably not even quite as good.
Except Shaka at least won the NIT.
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Except Shaka at least won the NIT.
Ya got me there. Hang a banner! (They probably did.)