1. Seriously? Not taking joy in an 18 point comeback on the road in conference? 15 down with 10 to go, a win, and mewling. WTF?
2. First half, four possessions requiring late clock forces. One of which Garcia caught a pass on the low block with an angle and momentum and kicked out, sacrifing a lay up attempt. Another where DJ had a cleared side and the defender on his right hip and didn't drive early in the clock.
3. Lewis and Garcia are lost from 3 right now. Combined, they have to be 1 of their last 20. But both kept fighting. As freshmen. They aren't whining. The fans are.
4. Wojo rode a hot lineup. Majority of the charge came with 3 starters in the bench.
5. I counted 5 shots in the first half that I thought were bad decisions. Just bad shooting.
6. MU caught up on rebounding after getting dominated early.
7. The Hoyas aren't good. Half good plays by MU, half bad plays by Georgetown.
8. As I have said so many times before, conference road wins are worth their weight in gold. Doing it down 15 with 10 to go? A unicorn. Celebrate it.
The first half was embarrassing and even some part of the first half of the second half were bad to not sustain a run early. That said...
It's crazy how many people are acting like we needed to comeback down 18 vs Pine Bluff. Gtown isnt good but they were up 22ish on Nova and were up double digits on WVU. They blew both those games too.
Which tells you they are not good enough to really put teams away but far from brain dead that some are acting.
I watched it this morning. It was ugly. But I admired their resilience and fight. Great to see Cain have such an awesome game.
Quote from: tower912 on January 03, 2021, 05:20:31 PM
1. Seriously? Not taking joy in an 18 point comeback on the road in conference? 15 down with 10 to go, a win, and mewling. WTF?
2. First half, four possessions requiring late clock forces. One of which Garcia caught a pass on the low block with an angle and momentum and kicked out, sacrifing a lay up attempt. Another where DJ had a cleared side and the defender on his right hip and didn't drive early in the clock.
3. Lewis and Garcia are lost from 3 right now. Combined, they have to be 1 of their last 20. But both kept fighting. As freshmen. They aren't whining. The fans are.
4. Wojo rode a hot lineup. Majority of the charge came with 3 starters in the bench.
5. I counted 5 shots in the first half that I thought were bad decisions. Just bad shooting.
6. MU caught up on rebounding after getting dominated early.
7. The Hoyas aren't good. Half good plays by MU, half bad plays by Georgetown.
8. As I have said so many times before, conference road wins are worth their weight in gold. Doing it down 15 with 10 to go? A unicorn. Celebrate it.
With regards to number 3, "right now" has been a while. Would strongly prefer to have Lewis and Garcia work inside out earlier in the games.
9. Cain was a stud.
Actually, I feel kind of bad when I realize that a fan as rabid as Tower can't watch the games live.
I remember when I was in MKE making complex switches at school/work to be able to get to games.
Plus, I miss the timely "thoughts" posts right after games.
That said, I can't (as usual) disagree with any of your points (or #9 added later).
Lewis (1-13) Garcia (3-11) are not shooting 3's well in conference. They are too good to keep missing like this. And, In Garcia's defense, he is hitting a decent percentage for the season. (10-27) Lewis is at 5-20 for the season, so he started out OK. But, if you want to contemplate why our offense is not what we would like in conference, contemplate 4-24 from distance.
If they start hitting at 35% each in conference, the world will be a much brighter place.
They are freshmen. It will get better.
Quote from: tower912 on January 03, 2021, 08:46:26 PM
Lewis (1-13) Garcia (3-11) are not shooting 3's well in conference. They are too good to keep missing like this. But, if you want to contemplate why our offense is not what we would like in conference, contemplate 4-24 from distance.
If they start hitting at 35% each, the world will be a much brighter place.
I was surprised that Lewis hit 3s in non-con. Didn't think that was part of his game. Maybe it was fool's gold. I expected Garcia to hit 3s at a decent clip. 3/11 isn't great, but if he makes one more, at 4/11, that's 36% ... so he's not far off.
Everybody shot for crapola yesterday.
Hey! Don't quote before I can go back and make edits! Ha.
Quote from: MU82 on January 03, 2021, 08:49:20 PM
I was surprised that Lewis hit 3s in non-con. Didn't think that was part of his game. Maybe it was fool's gold. I expected Garcia to hit 3s at a decent clip. 3/11 isn't great, but if he makes one more, at 4/11, that's 36% ... so he's not far off.
Everybody shot for crapola yesterday.
Lots of wide open misses. Dj also had one that the release looked off too.
Lewis did hit 3s in hs. But wasn't the biggest part of his game. Dawson just needs to see it go through the net. He wad pretty good from three at a high level
Its so nice to see some good discussion about the game ! ! ! not dominated by the $5 Bitch, who needs to be Blocked, and not quoted ! ! ! 8-) Go Warriors ! ! !
Quote from: guzica on January 03, 2021, 09:44:01 PM
Its so nice to see some good discussion about the game ! ! ! not dominated by the $5 Bitch, who needs to be Blocked, and not quoted ! ! ! 8-) Go Warriors ! ! !
I always look forward to Tower's game post. Generally, his threads stay pretty clean.
I have stopped watching the games live. They give me too much anxiety.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on January 03, 2021, 08:52:24 PM
Lots of wide open misses. Dj also had one that the release looked off too.
Lewis did hit 3s in hs. But wasn't the biggest part of his game. Dawson just needs to see it go through the net. He wad pretty good from three at a high level
On one of our first possessions, DJ missed a layup. Turned out to be that kind of game offensively ... until the last 10 minutes.
One part of offense that was successful was when Lewis had either "5" on him to get him the ball at the free throw line and drive. Good things happened in most cases getting their big trying to defend a drive.
That really isn't Theo's game so Lewis gives us a new dimension when he is playing.
Quote from: tower912 on January 03, 2021, 05:20:31 PM
1. Seriously? Not taking joy in an 18 point comeback on the road in conference? 15 down with 10 to go, a win, and mewling. WTF?
2. First half, four possessions requiring late clock forces. One of which Garcia caught a pass on the low block with an angle and momentum and kicked out, sacrifing a lay up attempt. Another where DJ had a cleared side and the defender on his right hip and didn't drive early in the clock.
3. Lewis and Garcia are lost from 3 right now. Combined, they have to be 1 of their last 20. But both kept fighting. As freshmen. They aren't whining. The fans are.
4. Wojo rode a hot lineup. Majority of the charge came with 3 starters in the bench.
5. I counted 5 shots in the first half that I thought were bad decisions. Just bad shooting.
6. MU caught up on rebounding after getting dominated early.
7. The Hoyas aren't good. Half good plays by MU, half bad plays by Georgetown.
8. As I have said so many times before, conference road wins are worth their weight in gold. Doing it down 15 with 10 to go? A unicorn. Celebrate it.
1. The comeback was nice. But the circumstances that got us to that point against the worst roster in the conference are at least as troubling.
4. One of the few times Wojo hasn't gone back to starters quickly. That was a relief. I think he could've brought Koby back a bit sooner, but it worked.
5. The defensive end was the troubling part. Again, wide open three after wide open three. MU allowed 10 unguarded threes against GT, the most the Hoyas have been gifted in Big East play. They only made two, which was an incredible stroke of luck.
8. That's not really true so far this year. Ken Pomeroy noted in the Athletic that the value of home court is at its lowest point ever so far. Home teams winning 56.3% of conference games, the previous low mark is 59.0% and the average is 60.1%. That tracks with Big East results, where home court is a bit more than a coin flip at 13-10 (56.5%). And as Georgetown has given up significant leads to lose at home 4 times this year, either it's not a unicorn, or unicorns are both real and rather common as that's what happens more often than not when the Hoyas play at home.
And yes, I know I'm a wet blanket, but there are glaring deficiencies that we have seen for years and continue with this team. If we're going to seriously discuss this team, those deficiencies should be acknowledged not just when we lose but also when the issues crop up and we defy probability to win, such as this one and at Creighton.
Were there positives? Yes. Cain came up huge. Nights like tonight display why I think had he gone to a program like Nova, his length, athleticism, and shooting ability would've had him on the track we've seen guys like Josh Hart, Mikel Bridges, and Saddiq Bey take. In addition, Carton was great in the final moments. His shot to put us ahead with a minute left and his find to Cain to seal it were clutch. And Koby's chase down block was one of the best plays of the season.
That said, there was more bad than good, despite the notch in the win column. And when that is pointed out and the people pointing it out are villainized, it reduces the level of discourse on the site. I agree that positivity is more fun, but painting over the moldy spots in the basement doesn't make them go away, it just allows them to fester and grow unseen.
Brew,
Cain doesn't have the handle of those other guys from Villanova. It's on him and not Wojo to work on that. At best those comparisons are a stretch.
Agree with many of your other points. I'm just waiting till the end of the season to see if this team develops before I go irreversibly pessimistic about the future of MU under Wojo. I still have a sliver of hope.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on January 04, 2021, 08:07:03 AM
Brew,
Cain doesn't have the handle of those other guys from Villanova. It's on him and not Wojo to work on that. At best those comparisons are a stretch.
Agree with many of your other points. I'm just waiting till the end of the season to see if this team develops before I go irreversibly pessimistic about the future of MU under Wojo. I still have a sliver of hope.
Had Cain spent years in a different system, I think there's every reason his handle could be much better. Underuse for the bulk of his career seems to have put his development on the back burner.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 04, 2021, 07:32:21 AM
1. The comeback was nice. But the circumstances that got us to that point against the worst roster in the conference are at least as troubling.
4. One of the few times Wojo hasn't gone back to starters quickly. That was a relief. I think he could've brought Koby back a bit sooner, but it worked.
5. The defensive end was the troubling part. Again, wide open three after wide open three. MU allowed 10 unguarded threes against GT, the most the Hoyas have been gifted in Big East play. They only made two, which was an incredible stroke of luck.
8. That's not really true so far this year. Ken Pomeroy noted in the Athletic that the value of home court is at its lowest point ever so far. Home teams winning 56.3% of conference games, the previous low mark is 59.0% and the average is 60.1%. That tracks with Big East results, where home court is a bit more than a coin flip at 13-10 (56.5%). And as Georgetown has given up significant leads to lose at home 4 times this year, either it's not a unicorn, or unicorns are both real and rather common as that's what happens more often than not when the Hoyas play at home.
And yes, I know I'm a wet blanket, but there are glaring deficiencies that we have seen for years and continue with this team. If we're going to seriously discuss this team, those deficiencies should be acknowledged not just when we lose but also when the issues crop up and we defy probability to win, such as this one and at Creighton.
Were there positives? Yes. Cain came up huge. Nights like tonight display why I think had he gone to a program like Nova, his length, athleticism, and shooting ability would've had him on the track we've seen guys like Josh Hart, Mikel Bridges, and Saddiq Bey take. In addition, Carton was great in the final moments. His shot to put us ahead with a minute left and his find to Cain to seal it were clutch. And Koby's chase down block was one of the best plays of the season.
That said, there was more bad than good, despite the notch in the win column. And when that is pointed out and the people pointing it out are villainized, it reduces the level of discourse on the site. I agree that positivity is more fun, but painting over the moldy spots in the basement doesn't make them go away, it just allows them to fester and grow unseen.
1. Villanova fell behind Georgetown by 20-something earlier this season. It happens. (And I am NOT trying to claim Marquette is as good as Nova.) Can you rally from that big deficit to win? That matters a heck of a lot more to me.
4. Agreed. I was imploring Wojo to go back to both Koby and DJ a coupla minutes earlier than he did. He went back to Koby first, and I was stunned to watch Koby short-arm his first FT and brick his second. I hope that doesn't hurt Koby's confidence, because he's the only clutch FT shooter we have.
5. Agree about too many open 3s for GT, and I commented on it several times. Of course, we came into the game hitting 40% from 3 and GT gave us a ton of open 3s, most of which we missed. If both teams shoot their normal percentages on open 3s, we still win, probably much more comfortably. It's funny how they insist on playing the games on the court rather than determine winners by what pregame stats say or what Pomeroy says or what Scoopers say
should happen.
8. Yeah, like you, I'm not impressed with GT's homecourt "advantage" this season. We won at Creighton and at GT; we lost at home to Okla St, SH and Nova. More of that kinda stuff to come, not just for us but for the vast majority of college hoops teams.
You just love Marquette hoops, you want us to be great, and you get frustrated sometimes. We all do. And you have joined those who are convinced that Wojo has to go, and that's cool. While you might be right, and while his departure wouldn't bother me one iota, I am not so driven by it that I will let it dominate my every thought about Marquette basketball.
Appreciate your contributions to Scoop, brew.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 04, 2021, 08:14:06 AM
Had Cain spent years in a different system, I think there's every reason his handle could be much better. Underuse for the bulk of his career seems to have put his development on the back burner.
Underused and wrongly utilized. He excelled freshman year as a spot up three point shooter and rebounder.
He then had an extremely short leash as a wing driver which isn't his game.
I think his trajectory could have been slightly different had he continued on in the role from his successful freshman year.
Brew, to my eyes, the reason for the deficit was missed lay ups and missed open 3s. MU got whatever they wanted. That isnt coaching, that is basketball sometimes
What is wrong with giving open 3's to players who are missing their 3's?
Don't good shooters also make contested 3's?
Don't good shooters also use the step back 3?
At this level don't the players practice the high shot, for a better term, over the hands of the defender?
I sence that statistics are being misapplied. Gross numbers lose the details of what is really going on. The numbers are also being used to intimidate and make a case. Arguing with a statistics guy is a fools errand.
By the statistics we should have won in Vietnam and lost WWII.
BTW, Rick Patino is doing well at Iona. How did we miss him? He will have great statistics, should he be our next coach? You know as Vince would say, "winning isn't everything, it is the only thing".
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 04, 2021, 08:14:06 AM
Had Cain spent years in a different system, I think there's every reason his handle could be much better. Underuse for the bulk of his career seems to have put his development on the back burner.
The kid is natural athlete but not a natural basketball player. Last year he was a turnover waiting to happen. Can not really dribble, last game was the first time I
saw him put the ball down and use his left hand, nice to see. I think his mind is catching up to his game, game is slowing down for him. Lets see if he can build on
this game. Wojo gave him more than enough chances to show his improvement last year, and he did not. It will be interesting to see if he comesback next year, as
they do not have a wing in the program that I can see. I would be happy for him to play one more year.
Quote from: vogue65 on January 04, 2021, 09:43:21 AM
What is wrong with giving open 3's to players who are missing their 3's?
Don't good shooters also make contested 3's?
Don't good shooters also use the step back 3?
At this level don't the players practice the high shot, for a better term, over the hands of the defender?
I sence that statistics are being misapplied. Gross numbers lose the details of what is really going on. The numbers are also being used to intimidate and make a case. Arguing with a statistics guy is a fools errand.
By the statistics we should have won in Vietnam and lost WWII.
BTW, Rick Patino is doing well at Iona. How did we miss him? He will have great statistics, should he be our next coach? You know as Vince would say, "winning isn't everything, it is the only thing".
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Stats are important, but at the same time, allowing bad shooters to take open shots can be a good strategy. I think the UW game is another good example, I would guess that all of Ford's three point attempts were pretty wide open, and the game plan was to let him take those. He only went 2-7, but one of the ones he made was late in crunch time, even though he made it, it's a shot you're okay with. The only Gtown player that is above 35% with a decent sample size is Carey, and we closed out well enough on him for him to attempt below his season average on 3 point attempts. There will always be things to improve on defensively, but I'm okay with allowing bad shooters to take open three's.
Quote from: tower912 on January 04, 2021, 09:42:56 AM
Brew, to my eyes, the reason for the deficit was missed lay ups and missed open 3s. MU got whatever they wanted. That isnt coaching, that is basketball sometimes
MU shot 4/10 on unguarded threes, for 1.2 ppp which is above their season average. Georgetown shot 2/10 for 0.6 ppp which is below their season average. The coaching issue is that we repeatedly allow those open attempts. Not having the team ready after a long layoff when we were told the problem was tired legs also seems like a coaching issue.
Quote from: Its DJOver on January 04, 2021, 09:54:00 AM
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Stats are important, but at the same time, allowing bad shooters to take open shots can be a good strategy. I think the UW game is another good example, I would guess that all of Ford's three point attempts were pretty wide open, and the game plan was to let him take those. He only went 2-7, but one of the ones he made was late in crunch time, even though he made it, it's a shot you're okay with. The only Gtown player that is above 35% with a decent sample size is Carey, and we closed out well enough on him for him to attempt below his season average on 3 point attempts. There will always be things to improve on defensively, but I'm okay with allowing bad shooters to take open three's.
Which sort of makes my point about the use of statistics for decision making.
I'm still confused about my bigger point. Don't these kids practice against defenders (they use practice screens) so they launch high arching shots? I rarely see a 3 blocked.
With statistics there are always more questions to ask the guru.
How many 3's result in a foul and a 3 or 4 point result?
What is that %'s?
I know, who cares.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 04, 2021, 07:32:21 AM
And yes, I know I'm a wet blanket, but there are glaring deficiencies that we have seen for years and continue with this team. If we're going to seriously discuss this team, those deficiencies should be acknowledged not just when we lose but also when the issues crop up and we defy probability to win, such as this one and at Creighton.
We should discuss deficiencies even after a win. But until your posts this morning no one was doing that. Go back and look, there isn't one post actually offering any discussion on a deficiency from the game. It was just a bunch of angry vitriol directed at Wojo. No substance, just "we were down big to Georgetown, ergo Wojo sucks."
Personally, I think this was a positive coaching for Wojo. We changed up defenses, kept them off balance, were getting open look after open look on offense, and Wojo rode a hot lineup that was not intuitive at all to victory. It was against Ewing and Georgetown, so it's not like it's impressive but Wojo did what he needed to this game. The only reason we didn't blow them out of the water was because we biffed multiple unguarded layups and besides Cain, couldn't hit the ocean if we fell out of a boat. You cited how many unguarded threes we gave up, how many unguarded threes did they give up that we missed? Add in the reality that we are a MUCH better 3P shooting team than Georgetown and I feel like Georgetown benefitted from a lot more luck than we did.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 04, 2021, 07:32:21 AM
That said, there was more bad than good, despite the notch in the win column. And when that is pointed out and the people pointing it out are villainized, it reduces the level of discourse on the site. I agree that positivity is more fun, but painting over the moldy spots in the basement doesn't make them go away, it just allows them to fester and grow unseen.
I think the only ones being "villainized" are those who go to the length of using a video of Wojo joining in a celebration started by the players as evidence that Wojo is a bad coach. As I said above, there was no discourse being offered on Saturday. It was just angry yelling at Wojo. That kills discourse more than anything on this site.
And while painting over mold does allow it to fester...I don't think what is discussed on Scoop is going to have any impact on MU's performance going forward.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 04, 2021, 09:59:17 AM
MU shot 4/10 on unguarded threes, for 1.2 ppp which is above their season average. Georgetown shot 2/10 for 0.6 ppp which is below their season average. The coaching issue is that we repeatedly allow those open attempts. Not having the team ready after a long layoff when we were told the problem was tired legs also seems like a coaching issue.
Again, you also have to look at whose taking the shots. Every single Beast coach out there is going to be okay with 75% career three point shooter Theo John taking a wide open 3. Teams used to beg Derrick to take wide open threes. Sometimes poor shooters will get hot on a day and an adjustment will need to be made, but I'm okay with letting 28% three point shooter Chudier Bile take 3 open threes a game, even if he makes one.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 04, 2021, 09:59:17 AM
MU shot 4/10 on unguarded threes, for 1.2 ppp which is above their season average. Georgetown shot 2/10 for 0.6 ppp which is below their season average. The coaching issue is that we repeatedly allow those open attempts. Not having the team ready after a long layoff when we were told the problem was tired legs also seems like a coaching issue.
Can you please share where you are getting your unguarded three information? I'm open to learning but I have had a hard time believing that 12 of our three attempts were considered guarded. Garcia, Lewis, and Torrence went 0-12 by themselves and other than maybe 1 or 2 from Lewis and 1 from Carton they were wide open.
FWIW, I started a "Jamal's minutes" thread because I thought the subject merited its own thread.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 04, 2021, 10:14:31 AM
Can you please share where you are getting your unguarded three information? I'm open to learning but I have had a hard time believing that 12 of our three attempts were considered guarded. Garcia, Lewis, and Torrence went 0-12 by themselves and other than maybe 1 or 2 from Lewis and 1 from Carton they were wide open.
I believe Andrei got the numbers from Synergy. He shared them on the PT Twitter.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 04, 2021, 10:21:12 AM
I believe Andrei got the numbers from Synergy. He shared them on the PT Twitter.
I know Andrei got the numbers from Synergy who got the numbers from Joe who got the numbers from Pete, who was drunk. Furthermore, there was some rounding involved, some used 4 places, some were judgement calls.
Quote from: vogue65 on January 04, 2021, 10:28:31 AM
I know Andrei got the numbers from Synergy who got the numbers from Joe who got the numbers from Pete, who was drunk. Furthermore, there was some rounding involved, some used 4 places, some were judgement calls.
Your schtick is becoming more exhausting than 4ever's, but even less grounded in reality.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 04, 2021, 10:31:03 AM
Your schtick is becoming more exhausting than 4ever's, but even less grounded in reality.
At least I understand what 4ever is trying to say. Vogue sounds like he's on LSD half the time.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on January 04, 2021, 10:48:16 AM
At least I understand what 4ever is trying to say. Vogue sounds like he's on LSD half the time.
The deepest thing 4ever has said is "Crean Sucks". Genius level comprehension is not really a requirement..
Vogue sounds like he is on LSD 100% of the time, but at least I read and enjoy his posts.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 04, 2021, 10:21:12 AM
I believe Andrei got the numbers from Synergy. He shared them on the PT Twitter.
Thanks, I have synergy as well, but Andrei is much better at using it than I am. I may need to take a dive to see what else I can pull from it.
Quote from: tower912 on January 04, 2021, 09:42:56 AM
Brew, to my eyes, the reason for the deficit was missed lay ups and missed open 3s. MU got whatever they wanted. That isnt coaching, that is basketball sometimes
I agree with this for the second half for sure. First half had a lot of turnovers and bad plays on our end it felt like. This team needs to start making three's more--there's a ton of opportunity and it'd go a long way in helping the margin for error and turning around some of these close games. A little surprised how ineffective Dawson has been from the arc thus far.
Vogue is our Bill Walton
Marquette went 4-10 on unguarded spot up 3s, per Synergy, with Sy and Justin making up 5 of those misses.
On the season, I have focused on this so closely (on the defensive end) because unguarded spot ups are the most valuable non-dunk, non FT shot you can give up, and the defense has a ton of control over how many you give up, so luck doesn't factor a ton over the course of a season (though it plays a huge role from game to game).
This was from prior to Georgetown, only factoring in MU's Big East Games.
(https://painttouches.files.wordpress.com/2020/12/image-6.png)
This is from the NonCOn
(https://painttouches.files.wordpress.com/2020/12/image-4.png)
The D has faced much better teams that made them pay, but has also given up more open shots. When I see improvement there across a few games, I'll change my tune.
Quote from: pux90mex on January 04, 2021, 12:56:56 PM
Marquette went 4-10 on unguarded spot up 3s, per Synergy, with Sy and Justin making up 5 of those misses.
On the season, I have focused on this so closely (on the defensive end) because unguarded spot ups are the most valuable non-dunk, non FT shot you can give up, and the defense has a ton of control over how many you give up, so luck doesn't factor a ton over the course of a season (though it plays a huge role from game to game).
This was from prior to Georgetown, only factoring in MU's Big East Games.
(https://painttouches.files.wordpress.com/2020/12/image-6.png)
This is from the NonCOn
(https://painttouches.files.wordpress.com/2020/12/image-4.png)
The D has faced much better teams that made them pay, but has also given up more open shots. When I see improvement there across a few games, I'll change my tune.
Forgive me if I'm reading this wrong, but in addition to showing that we give up too many unguarded threes, doesn't this also show that we've been very unlucky with our opponents making them? Our PPP allowed on both guarded and unguarded are much higher than both the D1 and Big East averages.
For example, if you look at the unguarded numbers in conference play, we are giving up 10.5 unguarded threes a game and our opponents are scoring 1.5 points per unguarded three. That results in 15.75 points a game given up a game on unguarded threes. If our opponents scored the D1 average of 1.059 per unguarded three, that would result in 11.12 points a game given up a game on unguarded threes. That's over a 4.5 point difference. So yes, we give up too many unguarded threes but our opponents have been hitting them at unnaturally high rates (likely because we started conference play going against the top 4 offenses in the Big East).
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 04, 2021, 10:08:49 AM
And while painting over mold does allow it to fester...I don't think what is discussed on Scoop is going to have any impact on MU's performance going forward.
Fake news.
(https://cdn-tp3.mozu.com/24645-37138/cms/37138/files/3f9fcf0b-39a8-4bec-a546-729b08169b91?max=50&_mzcb=_1606525719704)
Full disclosure: I've had to use it.
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on January 04, 2021, 01:59:48 PM
Fake news.
(https://cdn-tp3.mozu.com/24645-37138/cms/37138/files/3f9fcf0b-39a8-4bec-a546-729b08169b91?max=50&_mzcb=_1606525719704)
Full disclosure: I've had to use it.
See how it works with ordinary paint.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 04, 2021, 02:05:14 PM
See how it works with ordinary paint.
At least enjoy the humor
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 04, 2021, 08:14:06 AM
Had Cain spent years in a different system, I think there's every reason his handle could be much better. Underuse for the bulk of his career seems to have put his development on the back burner.
Brew,
I think this is a stretch. Jamal has spent countless hours in the gym. His handle should be phenomenal by now if he was a capable ball handler regardless of program.
If Wojo had Sidiq Bey on the team we would have been a better team. Jamal is no Bey no matter how you slice it. He's looked like a baby giraffe for better parts of 4 years on defense and handling the ball. I'm sure the coaches have been as frustrated as you he is not on an NBA roster right now and he has not lead us on a deep run in the tournament.
I love the potential. As he matures he has the ability in many other facets of basketball to succeed. Hopefully he keeps up with his ball handling skills after practice and becomes more consistent. It would be a pleasure to watch.
Quote from: tower912 on January 04, 2021, 12:31:10 PM
Vogue is our Bill Walton
He adds other value as well:
-only Scooper who is an MU Med alum
-only Scooper who lives in Newark, NJ
Quote from: MarquetteDano on January 04, 2021, 07:06:01 AM
One part of offense that was successful was when Lewis had either "5" on him to get him the ball at the free throw line and drive. Good things happened in most cases getting their big trying to defend a drive.
That really isn't Theo's game so Lewis gives us a new dimension when he is playing.
I know I'm all Scooped out when I initially read your first sentence to mean "5 Dollar" P was on Lewis's case. 😂
Quote from: pux90mex on January 04, 2021, 12:56:56 PM
Marquette went 4-10 on unguarded spot up 3s, per Synergy, with Sy and Justin making up 5 of those misses.
On the season, I have focused on this so closely (on the defensive end) because unguarded spot ups are the most valuable non-dunk, non FT shot you can give up, and the defense has a ton of control over how many you give up, so luck doesn't factor a ton over the course of a season (though it plays a huge role from game to game).
This was from prior to Georgetown, only factoring in MU's Big East Games.
(https://painttouches.files.wordpress.com/2020/12/image-6.png)
This is from the NonCOn
(https://painttouches.files.wordpress.com/2020/12/image-4.png)
The D has faced much better teams that made them pay, but has also given up more open shots. When I see improvement there across a few games, I'll change my tune.
Interesting, thank you.
Interesting segmentation.
Next question.
If the " pull up shot" was unguarded, was another shot, like the paint, guarded?
Thats why you need a complex algorithm.
Also, I thought we are talking about 3's?
Typical misapplication of statistics, or what looks like statistics, I call it numbers.
Nevertheless, interesting and a part of the puzzle.
Quote from: vogue65 on January 05, 2021, 07:13:56 AM
Interesting, thank you.
Interesting segmentation.
Next question.
If the " pull up shot" was unguarded, was another shot, like the paint, guarded?
Thats why you need a complex algorithm.
Also, I thought we are talking about 3's?
Typical misapplication of statistics, or what looks like statistics, I call it numbers.
Nevertheless, interesting and a part of the puzzle.
Shots are headed on both guarded and unguarded at all different areas. The reason the unguarded pull-up three is so important is because, aside from the slam dunk, the highest ppp shot in the sport. So when a shooter is able to get that shot undefended, in-rhythm, they score more points than any other shot type in the sport. And because with good defense, it's a preventable shot.
While our ppp on these is bad, that's less concerning than the number we allow because it shows our defense is giving our opponents more chances at high percentage shots. The total 3PFGA number of 21 vs the league average of 15.6 is particularly troubling because we are allowing more of the shots that hurt us the most than our peers.
In layman's terms, we are not only giving our opponents the biggest guns to shoot at us, but also the clearest line of sight.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 05, 2021, 08:06:04 AM
While our ppp on these is bad, that's less concerning than the number we allow because it shows our defense is giving our opponents more chances at high percentage shots. The total 3PFGA number of 21 vs the league average of 15.6 is particularly troubling because we are allowing more of the shots that hurt us the most than our peers.
To be fair, the conference schedule had us playing the most aggressive 3-point shooting teams early. It's not an outlier that Villanova, Xavier and Creighton took a lot of 3 point shots against us--they take a lot of 3 point shots against everybody.
In conference play, Villanova is averaging nearly 32 three attempts per game, Creighton and Xavier close to 27 per game. It falls off dramaticaly from there. Uconn is 4th, nearly 4 attempts behind Xavier.
Many teams we have yet to face are averaging far fewer three attempts (Providence, DePaul, and Butler all fewer than 21/game).
Quote from: The Equalizer on January 05, 2021, 10:23:22 AM
To be fair, the conference schedule had us playing the most aggressive 3-point shooting teams early. It's not an outlier that Villanova, Xavier and Creighton took a lot of 3 point shots against us--they take a lot of 3 point shots against everybody.
In conference play, Villanova is averaging nearly 32 three attempts per game, Creighton and Xavier close to 27 per game. It falls off dramaticaly from there. Uconn is 4th, nearly 4 attempts behind Xavier.
Many teams we have yet to face are averaging far fewer three attempts (Providence, DePaul, and Butler all fewer than 21/game).
It'll be interesting to see what happens when we play those teams. I believe Georgetown attempted above their average against us.
Quality of team doesn't make a difference.
Quote from: panda on January 05, 2021, 10:55:34 AM
It'll be interesting to see what happens when we play those teams. I believe Georgetown attempted above their average against us.
Quality of team doesn't make a difference.
Actually they didn't. Georgetown is averaging 24.88 3Ps a game. They shot 24 against us. If you use tempo-free stats, they were above average by a hair. Georgetown has attempted a 3P in 33.4% of their possessions this season. They attempted them in 33.8% of their possessions against us.
Quality and style of opponent always matters. It is important context. That's why no one should take the Georgetown game as proof that we have solved our TO woes.
Quote from: warriorchick on January 03, 2021, 10:51:17 PM
I have stopped watching the games live. They give me too much anxiety.
Try drinking before the game it might loosen you up.
(https://i2.wp.com/nguyenvanchuong.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/stickman-checkmark.gif?fit=521%2C400&ssl=1)
Quote from: warriorchick on January 03, 2021, 10:51:17 PM
I have stopped watching the games live. They give me too much anxiety.
Hmm....I used to be like you, but as I get older I realize there are more important things than MU basketball to get anxious about.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 05, 2021, 12:10:03 PM
Actually they didn't. Georgetown is averaging 24.88 3Ps a game. They shot 24 against us. If you use tempo-free stats, they were above average by a hair. Georgetown has attempted a 3P in 33.4% of their possessions this season. They attempted them in 33.8% of their possessions against us.
Quality and style of opponent always matters. It is important context. That's why no one should take the Georgetown game as proof that we have solved our TO woes.
In this case, I think style is more important than team quality. #1 Gonzaga is only averaging 20.8 3 point attempts per game. Tennessee is a top 5 program, they're only taking 17 threes a game. Compare to Villanova, attempting 27.5 per game.
My point is that you can't just judge us on the number of 3 point attempts taken against us without considering that the teams we've played tend to take a lot of three-point shots against everyone. That was the context missing in the original post.