WOJO said it clearly in his post game remarks on CBS, this team had lost some confidence following the last three losses. They were high as a kite riding some big wins and came crashing down. Remember Dawson Garcia is a freshman and plays most of the game. He was playing scared. That kid is probably experiencing his first dose of not being good enough to overwhelm his opposition. In that first half, the entire team played tentative missing shots like nervous kids. This is not a talent issue, it is getting their heads into the right space to win. You may not love WOJO but he understands these kids and in the second half built brick-by-brick a path to win that game and be ready for the next. and... Koby's block on that break away play showed powerful leadership and made the statement to the team but what it would take to go forward. These are good kids with strong talent, give WOJO a chance to elevate their play and we could see some exciting basketball before the season is over.
Amen Dark Brother!
I like your take. The talent is there. Let's beat UConn and reconvene Tuesday after the game to keep this positivity going.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on January 03, 2021, 01:34:16 PM
I like your take. The talent is there. Let's beat UConn and reconvene Tuesday after the game to keep this positivity going.
Shhhh, brew will hear you.
Amen, DarkWarrior.
Nothing wrong with positivity and confident players.
All Wojo needs is a chance!!
Quote from: DarkWarrior on January 03, 2021, 10:58:29 AM
WOJO said it clearly in his post game remarks on CBS, this team had lost some confidence following the last three losses. They were high as a kite riding some big wins and came crashing down. Remember Dawson Garcia is a freshman and plays most of the game. He was playing scared. That kid is probably experiencing his first dose of not being good enough to overwhelm his opposition. In that first half, the entire team played tentative missing shots like nervous kids. This is not a talent issue, it is getting their heads into the right space to win. You may not love WOJO but he understands these kids and in the second half built brick-by-brick a path to win that game and be ready for the next. and... Koby's block on that break away play showed powerful leadership and made the statement to the team but what it would take to go forward. These are good kids with strong talent, give WOJO a chance to elevate their play and we could see some exciting basketball before the season is over.
PLUS TAX
Quote from: panda on January 03, 2021, 02:09:33 PM
All Wojo needs is a chance!!
Sorry that a Scooper wanted to have a more positive thread. Glad you stopped by to let us know that 839 "Fire Wojo" threads aren't enough.
I only wish you could have repeated your outstanding, courageous take that you are "sad" college athletes had the temerity to celebrate a comeback win on the road in the Big East.
Quote from: MU82 on January 03, 2021, 04:22:09 PM
Sorry that a Scooper wanted to have a more positive thread. Glad you stopped by to let us know that 839 "Fire Wojo" threads aren't enough.
I only wish you could have repeated your outstanding, courageous take that you are "sad" college athletes had the temerity to celebrate a comeback win on the road in the Big East.
All hope is lost when it takes a desperation comeback to beat one of the worst new big East conference teams I've ever seen.
Celebrate if you want, but winning a game that said horrendous team handed you on a sliver platter and we barely took it is more cause for concern than celebration in my mind.
But maybe that's where our program is at now?
Quote from: panda on January 03, 2021, 04:43:26 PM
All hope is lost when it takes a desperation comeback to beat one of the worst new big East conference teams I've ever seen.
Celebrate if you want, but winning a game that said horrendous team handed you on a sliver platter and we barely took it is more cause for concern than celebration in my mind.
But maybe that's where our program is at now?
Why do you put yourself through such misery?
Quote from: BLM on January 03, 2021, 04:48:14 PM
Why do you put yourself through such misery?
I'm just as big a Marquette fan as you. The only difference is I don't think Wojo can give the program any sustained success based on his past six seasons as a sample size. You do and that's ok.
I'm no less of a fan because I can acknowledge Marquette was lucky to beat a really bad team.
Quote from: panda on January 03, 2021, 05:03:27 PM
I'm just as big a Marquette fan as you. The only difference is I don't think Wojo can give the program any sustained success based on his past six seasons as a sample size. You do and that's ok.
I'm no less of a fan because I can acknowledge Marquette was lucky to beat a really bad team.
Which doesn't answer my question at all.
Quote from: BLM on January 03, 2021, 04:48:14 PM
Why do you put yourself through such misery?
Because I love the school, players and basketball team. How's that WW?
Can someone with more research capability than myself go back and look at how the boards responded to wins we had against Depaul during Buzz's and cream's tenures? This years Georgetown squad was predicted to be last in the conference (similar to DePaul when Buzz and crean were here).
I'm willing to bet it was expected, and just a formality. Not something we celebrated.
How far has MU basketball fallen?
Great take dude.
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on January 03, 2021, 05:34:08 PM
Can someone with more research capability than myself go back and look at how the boards responded to wins we had against Depaul during Buzz's and cream's tenures? This years Georgetown squad was predicted to be last in the conference (similar to DePaul when Buzz and crean were here).
I'm willing to bet it was expected, and just a formality. Not something we celebrated.
How far has MU basketball fallen?
Nobody is celebrating a great performance.
Quote from: panda on January 03, 2021, 05:20:12 PM
Because I love the school, players and basketball team. How's that WW?
Nobody who loves the players would criticize them for celebrating a comeback Big East win on the road.
Go to one of the 82,452 Fire Wojo threads, please. Or better yet, start another one!
Quote from: MU82 on January 03, 2021, 06:26:10 PM
Nobody who loves the players would criticize them for celebrating a comeback Big East win on the road.
Go to one of the 82,452 Fire Wojo threads, please. Or better yet, start another one!
I see a team going backwards this season. Escaping against the worst team in the conference when the same problems continue to persist and celebrating is not how I'd work on improving.
Celebrating after a game which the same problems continue to persist that have plagued us all year is not what I want to see when we go back to playing a team with a pulse.
If that makes me a bad fan, I won't apologize for having higher expectations than others.
Quote from: panda on January 03, 2021, 06:49:30 PM
I see a team going backwards this season. Escaping against the worst team in the conference when the same problems continue to persist and celebrating is not how I'd work on improving.
Celebrating after a game which the same problems continue to persist that have plagued us all year is not what I want to see when we go back to playing a team with a pulse.
If that makes me a bad fan, I won't apologize for having higher expectations than others.
You are a person of great courage.
Quote from: MU82 on January 03, 2021, 07:18:39 PM
You are a person of great courage.
Sorry for sharing my opinion.
Quote from: panda on January 03, 2021, 06:49:30 PM
Celebrating after a game which the same problems continue to persist that have plagued us all year
What problems are you referring to? If I had to pick three problems that have plagued us all year they would be:
1. Turning the ball over
2. Not turning our opponent over
3. Inconsistent defensive effort
Last night we:
1. Posted a TO% of 18.3%, not elite certainly but would rank in the top 115 teams this season. Certainly better than our season average of 20.9 (232nd)
2. Posted a defensive TO% of 23.9%, that number is elite and would rank in the top 30 teams this season. Certainly better than our season average of 15.6 (309th)
3. Held them to a dPPP of .84. That is an elite level defensive performance.
Our problem last night was that we couldn't shoot the damn ball, which is not something we've struggled with this season. After last nights dreadful shooting performance, our 3P% is 38%, which is still top 40 in the country.
You guys have to consider the source for a lot of these complaints. This is a guy whose most common topic last year had nothing to do with anything on the court, but the fact that NMD fell on a Sunday. Some people just aren't happy unless they're complaining.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 03, 2021, 08:24:16 PM
What problems are you referring to? If I had to pick three problems that have plagued us all year they would be:
1. Turning the ball over
2. Not turning our opponent over
3. Inconsistent defensive effort
Last night we:
1. Posted a TO% of 18.3%, not elite certainly but would rank in the top 115 teams this season. Certainly better than our season average of 20.9 (232nd)
2. Posted a defensive TO% of 23.9%, that number is elite and would rank in the top 30 teams this season. Certainly better than our season average of 15.6 (309th)
3. Held them to a dPPP of .84. That is an elite level defensive performance.
Our problem last night was that we couldn't shoot the damn ball, which is not something we've struggled with this season. After last nights dreadful shooting performance, our 3P% is 38%, which is still top 40 in the country.
To answer points 1/2, Georgetown is worse off than we are on the turnover front so even though the numbers look good, we'll look back at this game as fools gold.
Once again, we saw weak close outs and lots of open shots given up. Gtown just didn't hit them. Pick and roll defense is just atrocious. Switching on every single screen, always, is easy to pick apart and will continue to get shredded.
I'm relieved we won given the next stretch of games, but I still have significant concerns with the team concept for this team moving forward. Last night didn't do much to change my opinion given the quality of opponent and our struggles for the majority of the game.
Quote from: panda on January 03, 2021, 08:36:17 PM
To answer points 1/2, Georgetown is worse off than we are on the turnover front so even though the numbers look good, we'll look back at this game as fools gold.
This is true. No one should take this game as proof that we've turned the corner on turnovers. Just like no one should dismiss the defense based on how we performed against 5 top 15 offenses.
Quote from: panda on January 03, 2021, 08:36:17 PM
Once again, we saw weak close outs and lots of open shots given up. Gtown just didn't hit them. Pick and roll defense is just atrocious. Switching on every single screen, always, is easy to pick apart and will continue to get shredded.
You and I saw different games. While there were some "weak close outs" there were a lot less than past games (this is also partially due to quality of opponent as good offenses are better at getting open shots). We certainly didn't switch on every screen, I actually commented to a friend that we were switching less last night.
Quote from: panda on January 03, 2021, 05:20:12 PM
Because I love the school, players and basketball team. How's that WW?
don't engage BLM or MU82. Clearly they're lonely and misguided, with lots of free-time. MU fans however, so redeemable, I suppose.😀
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 03, 2021, 11:49:30 PM
This is true. No one should take this game as proof that we've turned the corner on turnovers. Just like no one should dismiss the defense based on how we performed against 5 top 15 offenses.
You and I saw different games. While there were some "weak close outs" there were a lot less than past games (this is also partially due to quality of opponent as good offenses are better at getting open shots). We certainly didn't switch on every screen, I actually commented to a friend that we were switching less last night.
We allowed 10 unguarded threes against Georgetown. That's the most the Hoyas have been allowed in 5 games if conference play. Had they shot to their season average from three on those shots, they would've won. I find it hard to believe it was "a lot less" when it was a season high for the opponent.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 04, 2021, 08:12:32 AM
We allowed 10 unguarded threes against Georgetown. That's the most the Hoyas have been allowed in 5 games if conference play. Had they shot to their season average from three on those shots, they would've won. I find it hard to believe it was "a lot less" when it was a season high for the opponent.
And this is why stats are better than the eye test, though to be fair I didn't say anything about unguarded threes and I feel like 10 is less than what we've been giving up in the last few games. What site are you getting the unguarded three data from? Does it tell you which threes were unguarded?
Quote from: panda on January 03, 2021, 05:03:27 PM
I'm just as big a Marquette fan as you. The only difference is I don't think Wojo can give the program any sustained success based on his past six seasons as a sample size. You do and that's ok.
I'm no less of a fan because I can acknowledge Marquette was lucky to beat a really bad team.
Just wondering, what are our statistics on the number of games won on luck?
How many out of a hundred games where a team is down by 16, 18, or twenty are won by the team that is behind?
Like I thought, we only have the statistics we have, that make our point.
So, therefore, it must have been luck because I say so and we don't have statistics.
We could always make some up. However, that's another subject and not allowed here.
Quote from: vogue65 on January 04, 2021, 10:18:05 AM
Just wondering, what are our statistics on the number of games won on luck?
How many out of a hundred games where a team is down by 16, 18, or twenty are won by the team that is behind?
Like I thought, we only have the statistics we have, that make our point.
So, therefore, it must have been luck because I say so and we don't have statistics.
We could always make some up. However, that's another subject and not allowed here.
Actually there is a formula for calculating luck. I don't pay for it but somebody here does I'm sure.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 04, 2021, 08:12:32 AM
We allowed 10 unguarded threes against Georgetown. That's the most the Hoyas have been allowed in 5 games if conference play. Had they shot to their season average from three on those shots, they would've won. I find it hard to believe it was "a lot less" when it was a season high for the opponent.
OK, fine. But if MU had also shot to their season average on threes, they would've won easily.
Haven't you heard? Other teams lose games for MU. Marquette doesn't do anything to win them.
Quote from: BrewCity83 on January 04, 2021, 05:08:04 PM
OK, fine. But if MU had also shot to their season average on threes, they would've won easily.
On unguarded threes, we shot above our average.
Maybe this will add context to change in defense and personnel from previous seasons.
At the rim, 29.4% of all our opponents' shots occur there this season, and they are hitting at 51.6%. Last season, at the rim shots comprised 36.7% of total shots by our opponents, hitting at a 54.2% clip. So, we are protecting the paint and we are defending better there.
When you have Garcia, Theo, Lewis protecting the paint, opponents see that and shoot more threes (and try to foul out these guys). This season, 41.4% of opponents' shots are threes versus 34.9% last season. Opponents are also shooting better (33.3% vs. 32.2%).
This is why we now harp on turnovers (quick, advantaged looks), slow rotations (unguarded), lack of steals (pressure on the passers) and how MU handles picks (Theo on perimeter shooters).
Some of this is pick your poison, mix up switches. Some of it is controllable. In years past, our lane defense was el matador and it led to easy buckets or a scrambling defense as they allowed dribble penetration and kick outs. This year has a much better containment fence but teams are racing down court to launch.
As I said previously, I like these improvements but MU is not all the way there. This is also why I liked Wojo willing to mix up some junk defense on GU as it caused confusion and turnovers.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 04, 2021, 06:07:24 PM
On unguarded threes, we shot above our average.
Unguarded spot up threes*
Quote from: vogue65 on January 04, 2021, 10:18:05 AM
Just wondering, what are our statistics on the number of games won on luck?
According to Pomeroy, we are #256th in luck. So pretty unlucky this year, so far.
Quote from: vogue65 on January 04, 2021, 10:18:05 AM
Just wondering, what are our statistics on the number of games won on luck?
How many out of a hundred games where a team is down by 16, 18, or twenty are won by the team that is behind?
Like I thought, we only have the statistics we have, that make our point.
So, therefore, it must have been luck because I say so and we don't have statistics.
We could always make some up. However, that's another subject and not allowed here.
This is the 2nd most unexpected win of the Wojo era, according to T-Rank. 74-72 was the only one that was more unlikely.
Quote from: Markusquette on January 04, 2021, 05:10:52 PM
Haven't you heard? Other teams lose games for MU. Marquette doesn't do anything to win them.
NOW THAT IS FUNNY! BUT IN FAIRNESS, IT GOES TO SHOW YOU THAT THERE ARE OTHER TEAMS THAT BEAT THEMSELVES, AND NOT JUST
MARQUETTE.
Marquette success is based on taking care of the ball, pass the ball with guys getting into passing lanes, and playing respectable defense.
If they can just take care of the basketball and not beat themselves with unforced TO's, that just might be enough to finish in the top half of the Big East.
Quote from: Marq3332 on January 04, 2021, 07:37:19 AM
don't engage BLM or MU82. Clearly they're lonely and misguided, with lots of free-time. MU fans however, so redeemable, I suppose.😀
What are your criteria for putting someone on ignore?
A few years MUScoop was a cesspool of snarky put downs and useless arguments.
It is much more civil today allowing for difference of opinion.
Is don't engage what comes before ignore?