I see article after article about financial woes for MU, layoffs, enrollment concerns, etc. Why is Marquette not saving money by playing all these games with zero fans in the Al McGuire center instead of Fiserv forum? Villanova for example, is playing zero games in the Wells Fargo center and has moved all games to their smaller on-campus gym.
I'm guessing the contract with Fiserv must not allow us to do so? I can't imaging playing in an empty Fiserv forum is meaningfully better than playing in an empty Al McGuire center, perhaps even worse.
Interested to hear your thoughts. Apologies if this has been discussed already. Thanks
Contracts and people that want their money.
I'm surprised that schools/teams, both professional and collegiate, are not thinking creatively about venues.
If you have to play in front of no fans, then make it memorable, and playing in an empty Fiserv is not memorable (they will be there next year with fans). Spruce up the old Gym and play the games there! (I assume the old Gym still exists?). How about MU High? It would not take much to get these venues ready and it would be an interesting gimmick instead of a completely empty arena.
So, why aren't pro teams thinking this way? Sedentary thinking?
Why don't the Bucks play in high school gyms, or the Mecca or Auditorium? Ditto the football badgers and the Packers.
ADDED
Examples of outside the box thinking ....
* When the Lakers play in Cleveland, play the game in Akron at St. Patrick HS (LeBron's school).
* When the Heat play the Bucks, play it at the AL (Jimmy Butler tie-in)
* The Bulls can play at Simeon HS
* The Cincy Bengals can play at Moeller HS
* The Bears can play at Mount Carmel HS
Etc
What is wrong with this outside of the box thinking?
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 28, 2020, 08:03:38 PM
I'm surprised that schools/teams, both professional and collegiate, are not thinking creatively about venues.
If you have to play in front of no fans, then make it memorable, and playing in an empty Fiserv is not memorable (they will be there next year with fans). Spruce up the old Gym and play the games there! (I assume the old Gym still exists?). How about MU High? It would not take much to get these venues ready and it would be an interesting gimmick instead of a completely empty arena.
So, why aren't pro teams thinking this way? Sedentary thinking?
Why don't the Bucks play in high school gyms, or the Mecca or Auditorium? Ditto the football badgers and the Packers.
What is wrong with this outside of the box thinking?
Well, the main reason is that the court isn't the same size so that's a bit of an issue...
But yeah otherwise we could play in a beautiful, state of the art facility with giant, awesome locker rooms. Or we could play at a high school. Good call.
Quote from: BLM on December 28, 2020, 08:06:26 PM
Well, the main reason is that the court isn't the same size so that's a bit of an issue...
But yeah otherwise we could play in a beautiful, state of the art facility with giant, awesome locker rooms. Or we could play at a high school. Good call.
why make the guy feel like a tool? We are all supporters of Marquette basketball, yes?
Quote from: BLM on December 28, 2020, 08:06:26 PM
Well, the main reason is that the court isn't the same size so that's a bit of an issue...
But yeah otherwise we could play in a beautiful, state of the art facility with giant, awesome locker rooms. Or we could play at a high school. Good call.
What advantage does that state of the art facility give you when no one is in the stands? (You know the answer is none).
That is, other than costing a ton of money with no gate revenue?
I assume there would be costs associated with making those places camera/tv ready
Quote from: BLM on December 28, 2020, 08:06:26 PM
Well, the main reason is that the court isn't the same size so that's a bit of an issue...
How hard is it to fix this? (Answer is not hard at all if you really want to do it)
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 28, 2020, 08:15:25 PM
What advantage does that state of the art facility give you when no one is in the stands? (You know the answer is none).
That is, other than costing a ton of money with no gate revenue?
It's pretty obvious they couldn't get out of their agreement with the Bucks. And the advantage of playing at Fiserv instead of Marquette High is you have a regulation sized basketball court and you have beautiful facilities for the team to enjoy.
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 28, 2020, 08:16:47 PM
I assume there would be costs associated with making those places camera/tv ready
More than firing up a nearly $1 billion Fiserv to play a game with no gate?
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 28, 2020, 08:17:02 PM
How hard is it to fix this? (Answer is not hard at all if you really want to do it)
Well if you want them playing at Marquette High they'd need to knock down the gym walls and extend them in both directions. So I'd imagine it's more difficult than you're trying to make it out to be.
Quote from: BLM on December 28, 2020, 08:17:47 PM
It's pretty obvious they couldn't get out of their agreement with the Bucks. And the advantage of playing at Fiserv instead of Marquette High is you have a regulation sized basketball court and you have beautiful facilities for the team to enjoy.
Quote from: BLM on December 28, 2020, 08:17:47 PM
It's pretty obvious they couldn't get out of their agreement with the Bucks. And the advantage of playing at Fiserv instead of Marquette High is you have a regulation-sized basketball court and you have beautiful facilities for the team to enjoy.
Ok so MUHS is out. Tons of other places to pick from if one can think creatively.
Every year MLB plays a game in Williamsport in front of three thousand little leaguers. The facilities are no better than a typical HS. The pros love it, teams are asking to play this game every year.
Ditto the former Hall of Fame football game in Caton.
If you think creatively and pick an iconic HS or local stadium/area, I'm sure the excitement will be equal to playing in an empty Fiserv, if not more.
Well, if you promised recruits they'd play in the FF - and the contract says you have to pay FF, then, the answer is simple.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 28, 2020, 08:25:47 PM
Well, if you promised recruits they'd play in the FF - and the contract says you have to pay FF, then, the answer is simple.
You also promised recruits they would play in front of fans too.
Seems like sports fans here cannot make lemonade out of the pandemic lemons.
All you have this year is TV, no gate. So, you need a gimmick to get people to watch (all sports ratings are down across the board). Tell me if MU were to play in the old Gym, or an iconic HS, or another venue, it would not garner attention and get curiosity up and people to tune-in?
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 28, 2020, 08:31:06 PM
Tell me if MU were to play in the old Gym, or an iconic HS, or another venue, it would not garner attention and get curiosity up and people to tune-in?
It would not. And players wouldn't like it as much. And you'd still be paying for the FF.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 28, 2020, 08:31:06 PM
You also promised recruits they would play in front of fans too.
Seems like sports fans here cannot make lemonade out of the pandemic lemons.
All you have this year is TV, no gate. So, you need a gimmick to get people to watch (all sports ratings are down across the board). Tell me if MU were to play in the old Gym, or an iconic HS, or another venue, it would not garner attention and get curiosity up and people to tune-in?
The only gimmick that would increase MU viewership would be playing some defense
Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 28, 2020, 08:33:11 PM
It would not. And players wouldn't like it as much. And you'd still be paying for the FF.
How do you know the players would not like it? Have you asked them?
I seem to remember a lot of disappointment a few years ago when we had a game canceled on the deck of an aircraft carrier because of condensation making it too slippery.
Or are you assuming they are pampered spoiled children that cannot think beyond their immediate needs?
More people will watch if we win, fewer if we lose. I honestly don't see playing in random gyms changing that very much.
The best reason to me though is home court advantage. Teams are losing enough of that already without fans in the stands; the last thing they want to do is lose it altogether. Because of that, the only plausible option I could see for Marquette would be the Al. I think that would be a great idea if not for contractual obligations binding them to the Fiserv.
Quote from: Marq3332 on December 28, 2020, 08:14:55 PM
why make the guy feel like a tool? We are all supporters of Marquette basketball, yes?
You must be new here ... its troll first, think later on this board.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 28, 2020, 08:45:23 PM
More people will watch if we win, fewer if we lose. I honestly don't see playing in random gyms changing that very much.
The best reason to me though is home court advantage. Teams are losing enough of that already without fans in the stands; the last thing they want to do is lose it altogether. Because of that, the only plausible option I could see for Marquette would be the Al. I think that would be a great idea if not for contractual obligations binding them to the Fiserv.
I think the FF may be easier to control the contagion versus a cramped gym and facility where people and teams are coming in and out of (Athletics staff, multiple teams lifting weights, volleyball and WBB teams cycling in and out of). Yeah, the FF has the NBA but there are extra locker rooms for college teams and the Bucks practice facility is across the street.
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 28, 2020, 08:16:47 PM
I assume there would be costs associated with making those places camera/tv ready
The Maui Invitational is played in a HS gym. So was the Great Alaska Shootout. The Atlantis Trounrmenet is played in a casino's arena.
If you want to do it, it can be done.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 28, 2020, 08:53:00 PM
I think the FF may be easier to control the contagion versus a cramped gym and facility where people and teams are coming in and out of (Athletics staff, multiple teams lifting weights, volleyball and WBB teams cycling in and out of). Yeah, the FF has the NBA but there are extra locker rooms for college teams and the Bucks practice facility is across the street.
Good point.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 28, 2020, 08:51:52 PM
You must be new here ... its troll first, think later on this board.
Says the guy claiming we could gain TV viewers by playing at Marquette High.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 28, 2020, 08:53:00 PM
I think the FF may be easier to control the contagion versus a cramped gym and facility where people and teams are coming in and out of (Athletics staff, multiple teams lifting weights, volleyball and WBB teams cycling in and out of). Yeah, the FF has the NBA but there are extra locker rooms for college teams and the Bucks practice facility is across the street.
Also I cannot imagine any TV partner is excited to outfit some new location.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 28, 2020, 08:53:50 PM
The Maui Invitational is played in a HS gym. So was the Great Alaska Shootout. The Atlantis Trounrmenet is played in a casino's arena.
If you want to do it, it can be done.
Why aren't NFL teams playing at their practice field? Why didn't baseball teams use their AAA fields? Why don't you post this question on the Syracuse basketball forum? Why don't you sleep at the neighbors house tonight? All similar questions....and all similar answers.
Why aren't you more outside the box?!?! lol
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 28, 2020, 08:53:50 PM
The Maui Invitational is played in a HS gym. So was the Great Alaska Shootout. The Atlantis Trounrmenet is played in a casino's arena.
If you want to do it, it can be done.
The Maui Invitational is played at the Lahaina Civic Center. The Great Alaska Shootout was played at the Alaska Airlines Center. Neither of those are high school gyms. I know you intentionally get things wrong to gain attention and then play the victim card, but try getting at least one thing right sometime.
Quote from: panda on December 28, 2020, 08:33:42 PM
The only gimmick that would increase MU viewership would be playing some defense
Nice! ;D
Quote from: BLM on December 28, 2020, 09:02:46 PM
Says the guy claiming we could gain TV viewers by playing at Marquette High.
You already implied that the pampered children on the team are incapable of anything outside their daily routine. And you seem to forget the interest in us playing on an aircraft carrier, or the NIT games in the AL.
Now you're sure that changing to an iconic venue (as I stated), and I'll concede that MUHS might not be one, will not create curiosity. And the fact that the MLB game played in Williamsport every year gets higher ratings than a typical game is just a coincidence.
But hey, it's your message board. Instead of thinking first and giving a good answer like Dr. Blackheart above, you prefer the time-honored practice here of trolling/attacking first, then engaging your brain later.
Quote from: BLM on December 28, 2020, 09:06:27 PM
The Maui Invitational is played at the Lahaina Civic Center. The Great Alaska Shootout was played at the Alaska Airlines Center. Neither of those are high school gyms. I know you intentionally get things wrong to gain attention and then play the victim card but try getting at least one thing right sometimes.
So what is your point/position in this thread about playing at Fiserv?
(and how ironic that guy that picks BLM as his screen name calls someone else a victim. You want the monopoly on that)
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 28, 2020, 09:12:54 PM
You already implied that the pampered children on the team are incapable of anything outside their daily routine. And you seem to forget the interest in us playing on an aircraft carrier, or the NIT games in the AL.
Now you're sure that changing to an iconic venue (as I stated), and I'll concede that MUHS might not be one, will not create curiosity. And the fact that the MLB game played in Williamsport every year gets higher ratings than a typical game is just a coincidence.
But hey, it's your message board. Instead of thinking first and giving a good answer like Dr. Blackheart above, you prefer the time-honored practice here of trolling/attacking first, then engaging your brain later.
You must have me confused with BLM. I said nothing, and implied nothing about pampered children. I did say Marquette's players prefer playing in an NBA arean.
Define "typical [baseball] game"? I see the 2019 little league classic on sunday on ESPN drawing 1.1 rating and 1.76 million viewers. ESPN Sunday night baseball averaged 1.5 million viewers in 2019, and high of 1.97 million. So, slightly above average. I think people tuned in for the Cubs in higher than average numbers, rather than the site.
I am thinking, and giving a good answer that there is NO GOOD REASON to play anywhere else than the FF this year.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 28, 2020, 09:04:03 PM
Why aren't NFL teams playing at their practice field? Why didn't baseball teams use their AAA fields? Why don't you post this question on the Syracuse basketball forum? Why don't you sleep at the neighbors house tonight? All similar questions....and all similar answers.
Why aren't you more outside the box?!?! lol
Since you asked, I will answer (as I have a relationship with the owner of an MLB team)...
Baseball did seriously consider playing in other venues like minor league parks (in a bubble-like arrangement like the NBA in either FL or AZ). It was shelved because they did not get an agreement to play a 60 game schedule until August 1 and was still holding out hope to put fans in the stands until the season was about over.
If you told MLB they would have to play next year with no fans, they might very well play in minor league venues. Right now they fully expect fans next year.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 28, 2020, 09:12:54 PM
You already implied that the pampered children on the team are incapable of anything outside their daily routine. And you seem to forget the interest in us playing on an aircraft carrier, or the NIT games in the AL.
Now you're sure that changing to an iconic venue (as I stated), and I'll concede that MUHS might not be one, will not create curiosity. And the fact that the MLB game played in Williamsport every year gets higher ratings than a typical game is just a coincidence.
But hey, it's your message board. Instead of thinking first and giving a good answer like Dr. Blackheart above, you prefer the time-honored practice here of trolling/attacking first, then engaging your brain later.
Where was that implied? Of course it wasn't, you're just making more stuff up. Kind of like how the Maui Invitational and Great Alaska Shootout are played in high school gyms...when they're not.
But hey. I'm just trolling first and engaging my brain later. You're the well thought out, always accurate poster here.
Related question ....
Is the AL still the practice facility for visiting NBA teams to Milwaukee (when/if they need one). Is this still the case this year? If so, doesn't this pose a COVID problem given the issue in both college and the NBA?
Quote from: BLM on December 28, 2020, 09:43:18 PM
Where was that implied? Of course it wasn't, you're just making more stuff up. Kind of like how the Maui Invitational and Great Alaska Shootout are played in high school gyms...when they're not.
But hey. I'm just trolling first and engaging my brain later. You're the well thought out, always accurate poster here.
Those facilities are not much better than a high-end HS arena.
And thanks for admitting that you do not engage your brain when posting, you stated the obvious.
And I'm still waiting for your position about playing a full season in front of zero fans at Fiserv and why moving the games is a bad idea, to the AL or anywhere else.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 28, 2020, 09:46:20 PM
Those facilities are not much better than a high-end HS arena.
And thanks for admitting that you do not engage your brain when posting, you stated the obvious.
And I'm still waiting for your position about playing a full season in front of zero fans at Fiserv and why moving the games is a bad idea, to the AL or anywhere else.
Lol.
Heise: The Maui and Great Alaska Shootout are played in high school gyms.
Anyone: No they're not.
Heise: The gyms they're played at aren't much better than high school gyms so yeah.
Also Heise: Why don't they move to Marquette High.
Anyone: They court isn't big enough, they paid for the facility and can't get out of it, the facility is much nicer than any other, and they can play in one arena for all their games or they can bounce around to "iconic high school gyms" (because there are so many of those in Milwaukee!) and play at a new gym each game where the court isn't even the right size.
Heise: So you're saying Wojo's players are pampered babies who can't adjust to everyday life.
Also Heise: I wish people used their brains like me before they posted.
Quote from: BLM on December 28, 2020, 09:53:01 PM
Lol.
Heise: The Maui and Great Alaska Shootout are played in high school gyms.
Anyone: No they're not.
Heise: The gyms they're played at aren't much better than high school gyms so yeah.
Also Heise: Why don't they move to Marquette High.
Anyone: They court isn't big enough, they paid for the facility and can't get out of it, the facility is much nicer than any other, and they can play in one arena for all their games or they can bounce around to "iconic high school gyms" (because there are so many of those in Milwaukee!) and play at a new gym each game where the court isn't even the right size.
Heise: So you're saying Wojo's players are pampered babies who can't adjust to everyday life.
Also Heise: I wish people used their brains like me before they posted.
Ok, you win the troll award for December 28. Congratulations, you must be very proud of yourself (go celebrate by logging onto pornhub).
Now ... I'm still waiting for your position about playing a full season in front of zero fans at Fiserv and why moving the games is a bad idea, to the AL or anywhere else.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 28, 2020, 10:03:12 PM
Ok, you win the troll award for December 28. Congratulations, you must be very proud of yourself (go celebrate by logging onto pornhub).
Now ... I'm still waiting for your position about playing a full season in front of zero fans at Fiserv and why moving the games is a bad idea, to the AL or anywhere else.
MU has financial obligations to the Fiserv Arena. There are no other reasons needed, full stop.
Quote from: Retire0 on December 28, 2020, 10:17:46 PM
MU has financial obligations to the Fiserv Arena. There are no other reasons needed, full stop.
And none of these contracts have an "extraordinary circumstance" or a type of "Force Majeure" clause that can reduce the cost or change the terms?
My point is we all seem to be assuming this is the case. Maybe this is what MU wants, even in a season with no gate.
If this is a pure choice by MU, to play every game at Fiserv in front of zero fans, and they have the ability to move the venue, should they?
ADDED LATERWhen the Bucks played in the bubble in Orlando, did they still have to pay Fiserv for the missed games? When they paused the season in March, did the Bucks have to pay Fiserv for the canceled home games?
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 28, 2020, 10:22:23 PM
And none of these contracts have an "extraordinary circumstance" or a type of "Force Majeure" clause that can reduce the cost or change the terms?
My point is we all seem to be assuming this is the case. Maybe this is what MU wants, even in a season with no gate.
If this is a pure choice by MU, to play every game at Fiserv in front of zero fans, and they have the ability to move the venue, should they?
ADDED LATER
When the Bucks played in the bubble in Orlando, did they still have to pay Fiserv for the missed games? When they paused the season in March, did the Bucks have to pay Fiserv for the canceled home games?
There is no out. Stop.
The DNC paid full rate for their convention commitment just as Marquette will have to do as well.
Again, just stop.
Quote from: Retire0 on December 28, 2020, 10:56:42 PM
There is no out. Stop.
The DNC paid full rate for their convention commitment just as Marquette will have to do as well.
Again, just stop.
Have you seen the contract or can you post it?
Does the same apply to the Bucks? Did they pay Fiserv for games they played in Orlando?
And the DNC held their convention at Fiserv, so they used the facility they paid for. Not sure how this applies here.
ADDED LATERHow about all the concerts canceled this past summer? Did Live Nation or AEG Presents (the nation's largest promoters) have to pay Fiserv for shows that did not happen?
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 28, 2020, 09:46:20 PM
Those facilities are not much better than a high-end HS arena.
And thanks for admitting that you do not engage your brain when posting, you stated the obvious.
And I'm still waiting for your position about playing a full season in front of zero fans at Fiserv and why moving the games is a bad idea, to the AL or anywhere else.
Actually, Sullivan Arena, where the GAS was played until the last few years, was the municipal arena for Anchorage and was UAA's home court. It hosted pro hockey too. Alaska Airlines Arena, built on campus, seats 5K and cost $109 million to build. Both far beyond high end high high school arenas.
That said, outside of the contractual obligation likely still being in effect, I think playing at the Al would be cool, like Georgetown playing at their on-campus arena. But, no other BE school has moved back on campus from their municipal facilities and they likely have good reasons for doing it, so FF it is.
I'm surprised that we've gotten this far without Heisy mentioning a circle jerk yet
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 28, 2020, 11:31:36 PM
I'm surprised that we've gotten this far without Heisy mentioning a circle jerk yet
Look up about six posts
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on December 28, 2020, 11:24:06 PM
Actually, Sullivan Arena, where the GAS was played until the last few years, was the municipal arena for Anchorage and was UAA's home court. It hosted pro hockey too. Alaska Airlines Arena, built on campus, seats 5K and cost $109 million to build. Both far beyond high end high high school arenas.
That said, outside of the contractual obligation likely still being in effect, I think playing at the Al would be cool, like Georgetown playing at their on-campus arena. But, no other BE school has moved back on campus from their municipal facilities and they likely have good reasons for doing it, so FF it is.
Right. To answer the original question, there are likely requirements in the contract that requires MU to play there a certain number of times. However, there are also likely costs covered by the FF as part of that contract that Marquette doesn't want to incur if they simply play at the Al (security, event costs, etc.) So my guess is that MU athletics made the best choice they could given their situation.
Quote from: BLM on December 28, 2020, 09:53:01 PM
Lol.
Heise: The Maui and Great Alaska Shootout are played in high school gyms.
Anyone: No they're not.
Heise: The gyms they're played at aren't much better than high school gyms so yeah.
Also Heise: Why don't they move to Marquette High.
Anyone: They court isn't big enough, they paid for the facility and can't get out of it, the facility is much nicer than any other, and they can play in one arena for all their games or they can bounce around to "iconic high school gyms" (because there are so many of those in Milwaukee!) and play at a new gym each game where the court isn't even the right size.
Heise: So you're saying Wojo's players are pampered babies who can't adjust to everyday life.
Also Heise: I wish people used their brains like me before they posted.
So I am late to this "circle jerk."
Heisey wants the NBA and major D1 CBB to play in "iconic high school gyms," complete with their small locker rooms, lack of modern medical and training facilities, and problematic set up for a modern television broadcast, and claims it is a lack of "outside the box" thinking they aren't doing this?
I've worked with dozens of guys like Heisey. They always mix up "I have a creative idea that is an example of my outside the box thinking" with "I have a batsh*t crazy idea that can't possibly work because I don't understand the parameters involved." They are tiresome for everyone, and usually don't go anywhere with their careers because while their busy with their "creative ideas," everyone else is getting sh*t done.
This is one of the more ridiculous arguments, even for Heisy. In addition to the contract issues that should end the entire discussion, Fiserv is also equipped with all the advanced sensor equipment MU uses for statistical analyses, like ShotTracker.
While I did not state it, I did not mean every game. I meant selective games. And I never suggested they should be no games at Fiserv, just consider some games in other venues.
Your point about medical facilities and shot-tracker are good if they are true (you wrote it as if you have no idea if this is the case, or what it takes to bring another venue up to standard).
Too bad it took 45 posts to get to it.
So, how about the AL?
Again, you are all assuming MU pays a fixed-rent. My understanding is the rent of a % of the gate, parking, and concessions. The fixed part is very small. So, if MU was motivated to move the games (and why not, again zero fans) they could without much of a financial loss.
[quote author=Fluffy Blue Monster
I've worked with dozens of guys like Heisey. They always mix up "I have a creative idea that is an example of my outside the box thinking" with "I have a batsh*t crazy idea that can't possibly work because I don't understand the parameters involved." They are tiresome for everyone, and usually don't go anywhere with their careers because while their busy with their "creative ideas," everyone else is getting sh*t done.
[/quote]
Don't you get a paycheck from a government entity? Sure glad you telling everyone about your experience with creativity.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 28, 2020, 09:16:22 PM
So what is your point/position in this thread about playing at Fiserv?
(and how ironic that guy that picks BLM as his screen name calls someone else a victim. You want the monopoly on that)
+100...how ironic that guy that picks BLM as his screen name calls someone else a victim.
And so the inevitable death spiral of another thread begins.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 29, 2020, 10:28:54 AM
[quote author=Fluffy Blue Monster
I've worked with dozens of guys like Heisey. They always mix up "I have a creative idea that is an example of my outside the box thinking" with "I have a batsh*t crazy idea that can't possibly work because I don't understand the parameters involved." They are tiresome for everyone, and usually don't go anywhere with their careers because while their busy with their "creative ideas," everyone else is getting sh*t done.
Don't you get a paycheck from a government entity? Sure glad you telling everyone about your experience with creativity.
No. And this is ironic considering you can't quote a post correctly.
Obviously, Marquette has to play their games in FF because of contractual obligations, however, I have a few questions, and I guess this would be the place to ask them. So for anyone who might know the answers:
1.) Did the Bucks...not really want Marquette to play in Fiserv? Or, when the arena was built, did Marquette kind of just assume it'd be the same deal as the Bradley Center, where of course they'd be playing there because they're Milwaukee's CBB team, and the Bucks were like, "Yeah...sure, I guess." Because from what I've read (which is admittedly very little) it seems the rent is pretty damn high (which figures, I guess), and the Bucks could kind of just take it or leave it as far as Marquette playing there goes.
2.) When the Bradley Center was built, was it designed more as a hockey/all purpose arena? Was FF built strictly for the Bucks?
3.) I don't want to go down the road of discussing the merits of Marquette building their own on-campus arena, however, does the FF's existence basically pigeonhole them into playing there? What I mean is, would the general public see it as wasteful for MU to build a 10,000+ seat on campus arena when there's a perfectly good venue a mile away? It seems like even if Marquette didn't want to play at FF anymore, they'd have very few (zero) options other than playing at the Al, which isn't an option considering MU is able to draw 16,000+ consistently for conference games.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 29, 2020, 10:28:54 AM
[quote author=Fluffy Blue Monster
I've worked with dozens of guys like Heisey. They always mix up "I have a creative idea that is an example of my outside the box thinking" with "I have a batsh*t crazy idea that can't possibly work because I don't understand the parameters involved." They are tiresome for everyone, and usually don't go anywhere with their careers because while their busy with their "creative ideas," everyone else is getting sh*t done.
Don't you get a paycheck from a government entity? Sure glad you telling everyone about your experience with creativity.
+1000...Don't you get a paycheck from a government entity? Sure glad you telling everyone about your experience with creativity.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on December 29, 2020, 12:08:51 PM
Obviously, Marquette has to play their games in FF because of contractual obligations, however, I have a few questions, and I guess this would be the place to ask them. So for anyone who might know the answers:
1.) Did the Bucks...not really want Marquette to play in Fiserv? Or, when the arena was built, did Marquette kind of just assume it'd be the same deal as the Bradley Center, where of course they'd be playing there because they're Milwaukee's CBB team, and the Bucks were like, "Yeah...sure, I guess." Because from what I've read (which is admittedly very little) it seems the rent is pretty damn high (which figures, I guess), and the Bucks could kind of just take it or leave it as far as Marquette playing there goes.
2.) When the Bradley Center was built, was it designed more as a hockey/all purpose arena? Was FF built strictly for the Bucks?
3.) I don't want to go down the road of discussing the merits of Marquette building their own on-campus arena, however, does the FF's existence basically pigeonhole them into playing there? What I mean is, would the general public see it as wasteful for MU to build a 10,000+ seat on campus arena when there's a perfectly good venue a mile away? It seems like even if Marquette didn't want to play at FF anymore, they'd have very few (zero) options other than playing at the Al, which isn't an option considering MU is able to draw 16,000+ consistently for conference games.
I cannot answer #1. But for #2, Jane Bradley Pettit built the BC with the purpose of attracting a NHL team. FF was built to be basketball first but can accommodate ice shows, which is why baseline stands are farther away.
Since MU's season ticket base is more than 10K why build a new arena on campus (where would it go?) that cannot accommodate our ticket base? SLU did it because they could never fill the Blues' arena (and still cannot fill their 10K seat arena). Nova is 30 minutes from downtown so having their own on-campus arena and splitting games on and off-campus makes sense. Similar with St. John's.
MU has always drawn over 10K, even during the final Deane years. Since basketball funds the entire athletic department we need as much ticket revenue as possible.
Does anyone know the terms of MU's lease for FF? I know St John's paid a set amount per game at MSG and took home all revenues.
Quote from: tower912 on December 29, 2020, 11:44:45 AM
And so the inevitable death spiral of another thread begins.
The sad part is a lot of posters, like BLM, probably agree with the idea of playing some games in Fiserv, some in the AL, and maybe a gimmick game or two somewhere like the Old Gym or another iconic venue. This was always my point.
So, in an attempt to make this thread useful again. What is the problem with doing this? And what would be the downside of playing ONE GAME OR TWO in the Old Gym, or another iconic venue because this is the only year it is possible?
I understand that everyone ASSUMES costs, but can anyone show that MU is stuck paying Fiserv a ton of money? I don't think they are.
Rather I think MU is afraid to move games out because they are hoping "at any moment" things will change and they can rush sell tickets to generate some gate receipts. So they keep playing in a giant empty barn hoping they get the green light to sell tickets soon.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on December 29, 2020, 12:08:51 PM
1.) Did the Bucks...not really want Marquette to play in Fiserv? Or, when the arena was built, did Marquette kind of just assume it'd be the same deal as the Bradley Center, where of course they'd be playing there because they're Milwaukee's CBB team, and the Bucks were like, "Yeah...sure, I guess." Because from what I've read (which is admittedly very little) it seems the rent is pretty damn high (which figures, I guess), and the Bucks could kind of just take it or leave it as far as Marquette playing there goes.
The Bucks ownership changed from the Bradley Center to FF. The former owners had a much better relationship with MU. The current owners are out of towners interested in making money, nothing wrong with that, just means that they weren't interested in giving MU a hometown discount.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on December 29, 2020, 12:08:51 PM
2.) When the Bradley Center was built, was it designed more as a hockey/all purpose arena? Was FF built strictly for the Bucks?
My understanding is yes to both
Quote from: Silent Verbal on December 29, 2020, 12:08:51 PM
3.) I don't want to go down the road of discussing the merits of Marquette building their own on-campus arena, however, does the FF's existence basically pigeonhole them into playing there? What I mean is, would the general public see it as wasteful for MU to build a 10,000+ seat on campus arena when there's a perfectly good venue a mile away? It seems like even if Marquette didn't want to play at FF anymore, they'd have very few (zero) options other than playing at the Al, which isn't an option considering MU is able to draw 16,000+ consistently for conference games.
When negotiations about the FF began, there were conversations about building an on-campus arena. Not serious ones but at least theoretical ones. I don't think negotiations were even close to bad enough with the Bucks to actually justify building a new arena. Also, the Mecca would have to be closed for it to even be possible.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 29, 2020, 12:20:01 PM
The sad part is a lot of posters, like BLM, probably agree with the idea of playing some games in Fiserv, some in the AL, and maybe a gimmick game or two somewhere like the Old Gym or another iconic venue. This was always my point.
So, in an attempt to make this thread useful again. What is the problem with doing this? And what would be the downside of playing ONE GAME OR TWO in the Old Gym, or another iconic venue because this is the only year it is possible?
I understand that everyone ASSUMES costs, but can anyone show that MU is stuck paying Fiserv a ton of money? I don't think they are.
Rather I think MU is afraid to move games out because they are hoping "at any moment" things will change and they can rush sell tickets to generate some gate receipts. So they keep playing in a giant empty barn hoping they get the green light to sell tickets soon.
The Old Gym cannot accommodate a D1 game. The NCAA and Big East have minimum requirements for competition which it would not meet. Right now spacing of benches would be the primary issue. Though my sense is your suggestion of the Old Gym is hyperbole.
Besides, the Old Gym is far from iconic.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on December 29, 2020, 12:08:51 PM
Obviously, Marquette has to play their games in FF because of contractual obligations, however, I have a few questions, and I guess this would be the place to ask them. So for anyone who might know the answers:
This has not been shown. The Wisconsin Center District, which Fiserv is part of, is losing buck loads of money. While they do not list terms of MU's rental contract, the ones they do show are typically, a percentage of the gate, parking, and concessions. There is a "rent" but that is typically small.
Otherwise, Fiserv would have lost no money, they would get getting tons of money from Live Nation and AEG Presents for all the canceled concerts this past summer. Instead, they got next to nothing, because there was no gate, no parking, and no concessions.
I believe the reason MU plays all its game in Fiserv is that is exactly how they want it. They don't want to move them (even to the AL). I suggested a reason above.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 28, 2020, 09:16:22 PM
So what is your point/position in this thread about playing at Fiserv?
(and how ironic that guy that picks BLM as his screen name calls someone else a victim. You want the monopoly on that)
I gotta hand it to you, Heisy: despite assertion after assertion after assertion being shown to be wrong--laughably wrong in many cases--you absolutely refuse to acknowledge your errors, and instead insist that, despite nothing you said being accurate, your initial thesis is still correct.
Never change, Heisy.
Quote from: TSmith34 on December 29, 2020, 12:28:02 PM
I gotta hand it to you, Heisy: despite assertion after assertion after assertion being shown to be wrong--laughably wrong in many cases--you absolutely refuse to acknowledge your errors, and instead insist that, despite nothing you said being accurate, your initial thesis is still correct.
Never change, Heisy.
Seriously, what was I wrong about? I have opinions some disagree with. You can disagree too but that only makes you equally wrong in my eyes.
And of course, I will not change, I'm the most important poster here. Think of how boring this place is when I go quiet.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on December 28, 2020, 11:24:06 PM
Actually, Sullivan Arena, where the GAS was played until the last few years, was the municipal arena for Anchorage and was UAA's home court. It hosted pro hockey too. Alaska Airlines Arena, built on campus, seats 5K and cost $109 million to build. Both far beyond high end high high school arenas.
That said, outside of the contractual obligation likely still being in effect, I think playing at the Al would be cool, like Georgetown playing at their on-campus arena. But, no other BE school has moved back on campus from their municipal facilities and they likely have good reasons for doing it, so FF it is.
Providence played on campus the other day. BTW, the lighting was far superior to Dunkin Donuts.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on December 29, 2020, 12:26:42 PM
The Old Gym cannot accommodate a D1 game. The NCAA and Big East have minimum requirements for competition which it would not meet. Right now spacing of benches would be the primary issue. Though my sense is your suggestion of the Old Gym is hyperbole.
Besides, the Old Gym is far from iconic.
So, what are these requirements, what are the dimensions of the Old gym, and what are the dimensions of the bench spacing? You seem so sure, do you have a schematic that shows it will not work?
Everyone pulls crap out of their arse, like you just did. If you were relevant, you would be attacked for three pages. But you're not, I am.
This Season:
Villanova - ZERO games at Wells Fargo (NBA arena)
St. Johns - ZERO games at MSG (NBA arena)
Georgetown - ZERO games at Verizon (NBA arena)
Marquette - ALL games at Fiserv (NBA arena)
What is so unique about Marquette's contract that they are forced to bleed money to Fiserv when the Al is a perfectly good alternative? Have people forgotten about the NIT games at the Al recently? Those seemed to work just fine in terms of TV/cameras/facilities.
Another opportunity for Marquette to be fiscally wise that they are throwing away with two hands
Who cares where they play?
Just turn down the fake crowd noise.
Quote from: vogue65 on December 29, 2020, 12:44:06 PM
Who cares where they play?
Just turn down the fake crowd noise.
Because the university is bleeding money. This seems like a solid cost-savings opportunity.
Quote from: MUtopper34 on December 29, 2020, 12:47:12 PM
Because the university is bleeding money. This seems like a solid cost-savings opportunity.
Is there a contract in place that MU has financial obligations regardless of whether they actually play at FF?
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 29, 2020, 12:35:07 PM
So, what are these requirements, what are the dimensions of the Old gym, and what are the dimensions of the bench spacing? You seem so sure, do you have a schematic that shows it will not work?
Everyone pulls crap out of their arse, like you just did. If you were relevant, you would be attacked for three pages. But you're not, I am.
I don't know if the Old Gym could accommodate an intramural game while I was at Marquette in the early 2010s, much less a D-1 game. I can't imagine they have the necessary lines on the court.
Also, if someone gets injured, the Al or FF would be much better. Especially if it was a serious injury.
Quote from: MUtopper34 on December 29, 2020, 12:43:45 PM
This Season:
Villanova - ZERO games at Wells Fargo (NBA arena)
St. Johns - ZERO games at MSG (NBA arena)
Georgetown - ZERO games at Verizon (NBA arena)
Marquette - ALL games at Fiserv (NBA arena)
What is so unique about Marquette's contract that they are forced to bleed money to Fiserv when the Al is a perfectly good alternative? Have people forgotten about the NIT games at the Al recently? Those seemed to work just fine in terms of TV/cameras/facilities.
Another opportunity for Marquette to be fiscally wise that they are throwing away with two hands
You can't just break a contract because you don't like it.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 29, 2020, 01:01:09 PM
You can't just break a contract because you don't like it.
Plus the top 2 only play a few games at the NBA arena. There was one year Nova didn't play at Wells Fargo since it was a host site for the NCAA Tourney. I have to think those contracts are far more flexible.
Georgetown is the only comparable one, so I find that a little interesting.
When the DNC was late on some payments, the Bucks told them to pay up or they would look at booking other similar events (ie Trump). Mark Lasry is a pretty big deal in Dem circles. And that's how they treated the DNC. Imagine the conversations with Lovell about breaking or at least rolling over the lease.
I guess just as we'll never know what Wojo's buyout actually is, we'll never know what MU's contract with Fiserv is.
Heise: Let's play at Marquette High.
Anybody: Well, you can't do that, it's not the right size and we pay for the Fiserv anyway.
Heise: Well they play the Maui and the Great Alaska Shootout in high schools!
Anybody: No, they don't.
Heise: Well, they're almost as bad as some of the best high school gyms out there. But quit trolling man, think with your brain like me before you post. I just want everyone's honest opinion on the very serious matter about why it is Marquette won't get creative in where they're playing their games.
Anybody: Well it could be any of the reasons listed above by multiple posters, plus it could have to do with safety guidelines and access to technology they use that isn't available elsewhere.
Heise: Everyone is so wrong! I know exactly why! It's because Marquette wants to play at the Fiserv!
Dope.
Like everyone else, I do not know what the contractural commitments are. The main court at the Al was built to be as close to the one at the BC as possible, with better lighting. As shown from the NIT games and women's games, it can accommodate TV cameras. It is about the size of many on-campus arenas. We forget that relatively few programs draw 10,000+ a game. When the NCAA took over the NIT and it no longer depended on gate receipts, it made perfect sense to hold games at the Al. It surely has adequate lockerrooms and trainer facilities. I have to assume that if Marquette is playing at FiServ instead, it is doing so because it has to.
My information is that the university is not too happy with the contract at FiServe and is paying a bunch more than it used to. There has been at least some discussion of building an on-campus arena, specifically on the site of the old Ramada inn on Michigan and 4th? or so, across from Grand Avenue. That was supposed to be the location of the sports medicine institute Marquette was going to share with the Bucks until the Bucks decided to go their own way. I do not know any of the particulars, but it seems that they could build an arena there, perhaps smaller than the FF, but if they did not have to pay rent, it might be as profitable to draw 12,000 fans, roughly the number of season ticket holders, than 16,000 at FF. And recall, FF has a lower capacity than the BC had. Right now, nobody is flush with cash, so this is not happening in a year or two, but it might wel develop somewhere down the road.
Yes, there has been an in depth discussion about MU building their own arena. They can't right now because they don't have the money. And building arenas cost a lot of money.
Building a new arena would be almost irresponsible. Even with the increased rent at Fiserv it would not make any sense to build and operate their own facility. The only way that maybe changes in my mind is if the WCD has plans that involve tearing down the MECCA. Then the Admirals/Wave/other events could bring in revenue.
MU was trying to sell that land, so I think they've largely moved on.
I'd love a ~12,000 seat on-campus arena. We could make it a real pit for visiting teams. But even if the contract with Fiserv is absolutely awful, it would probably take something like another Final Four run (or two) to make it even remotely plausible.
Quote from: MUtopper34 on December 29, 2020, 12:43:45 PM
This Season:
Villanova - ZERO games at Wells Fargo (NBA arena)
St. Johns - ZERO games at MSG (NBA arena)
Georgetown - ZERO games at Verizon (NBA arena)
Marquette - ALL games at Fiserv (NBA arena)
What is so unique about Marquette's contract that they are forced to bleed money to Fiserv when the Al is a perfectly good alternative? Have people forgotten about the NIT games at the Al recently? Those seemed to work just fine in terms of TV/cameras/facilities.
Another opportunity for Marquette to be fiscally wise that they are throwing away with two hands
You are making assumptions about the contract that may not be correct.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 29, 2020, 12:20:01 PM
The sad part is a lot of posters, like BLM, probably agree with the idea of playing some games in Fiserv, some in the AL, and maybe a gimmick game or two somewhere like the Old Gym or another iconic venue. This was always my point.
So, in an attempt to make this thread useful again. What is the problem with doing this? And what would be the downside of playing ONE GAME OR TWO in the Old Gym, or another iconic venue because this is the only year it is possible?
I understand that everyone ASSUMES costs, but can anyone show that MU is stuck paying Fiserv a ton of money? I don't think they are.
Rather I think MU is afraid to move games out because they are hoping "at any moment" things will change and they can rush sell tickets to generate some gate receipts. So they keep playing in a giant empty barn hoping they get the green light to sell tickets soon.
How are you going to televise a game from the Old Gym? And there's nothing iconic about it. It's a dump that hasn't hosted a game in 60 years.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 29, 2020, 04:27:08 PM
You are making assumptions about the contract that may not be correct.
Yep. Marquette has a history of keeping its financial dealings very close to the vest, so I suspect all we will ever have here is speculation.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 29, 2020, 04:29:00 PM
Yep. Marquette has a history of keeping its financial dealings very close to the vest, so I suspect all we will ever have here is speculation.
My guess is that if it were an easy way to save boatloads of money, it would have been done.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 29, 2020, 04:30:17 PM
My guess is that if it were an easy way to save boatloads of money, it would have been done.
Agreed.
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This thread.
Great outside-the-box thinking by San Jose State, playing a home conference game at a Fitness Center. Why can't Marquette play their games at the Wisconsin Athletic Club? It would be a great experience for the players to be able to use the hot tub and sauna after a game! Maybe we can get #PlayAtTheWAC trending!
https://www.idahopress.com/blueturfsports/basketball/unique-experience-on-tap-broncos-to-play-san-jose-state-at-fitness-center-in-phoenix/article_9e0c7619-4d11-520e-836a-ed2b1b3c62f6.html
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 31, 2020, 06:53:24 AM
Great outside-the-box thinking by San Jose State, playing a home conference game at a Fitness Center. Why can't Marquette play their games at the Wisconsin Athletic Club? It would be a great experience for the players to be able to use the hot tub and sauna after a game! Maybe we can get #PlayAtTheWAC trending!
https://www.idahopress.com/blueturfsports/basketball/unique-experience-on-tap-broncos-to-play-san-jose-state-at-fitness-center-in-phoenix/article_9e0c7619-4d11-520e-836a-ed2b1b3c62f6.html
#PlayAtHalfaerRecCenter
Shoot. Put the inflatable dome over Valley Fields, put a court over the turf, and tell everyone Marquette is creating a bubble. Talk about creative, and you get safety on top of it! Play the NCAA Tournament in the Valley Fields Bubble.
I actually do think a game at the Old Gym would be pretty cool. I don't see any reason why they couldn't make it compliant for a D1 game.
But it really doesn't make any sense with the obligation to the Fiserv.