MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on December 23, 2020, 08:02:31 PM

Title: Super Nova
Post by: tower912 on December 23, 2020, 08:02:31 PM
1.   That is the goal.   5 guys on the floor who can dribble, shoot the 3, know their assignment on defense, always make the right play.   Talking about Jay when they won their championships, they said he doesn't run plays.   He teaches concepts.    It is all read and react with good guards.  And his guys stay for 4 years.   Who would have guessed that Gillespie would be the next Brunson, the next DD.      Wright and Villanova are the goal.    You want a coach like him to make a program like them.   
2.  MU played their worst game of the year.    Looked like a bunch of freshmen and role players getting turned around in circles by the big kids.      Even with size, MU played small.   Even with speed, MU played slow AND out of control.    Our freshman forwards were not ready for the disciplined cuts.
3.   MU switched defenses.    For those calling for the zone.   Wojo even did a line change out of disgust with defensive effort.   
4.   Minutes for Osa and Dexter.   
5.   Symir attacked.    And got blocked.
6.   Simply cannot have a bad shooting night against these guys. 
7.  Nova destroyed MU on mismatches and switches.   MU stood still on offense.    Theo on Gillespie, mismatch for Nova.   Gillespie on Theo, not a mismatch as MU didn't get Theo the ball.   
8.  I was vacillating between wanting Wojo to leave the scrubs in and thinking that the only way that DJ, Dawson, Lewis are going to get better is to play max minutes against the best.    Still haven't made up my mind.  Might have split the difference and got Dexter, Osa, and Symir in more with the seniors sitting down the stretch. 

9.  It was only one.   Merry Christmas to all.   Hope the guys can use the next 10 days productively
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 23, 2020, 08:05:25 PM
10.  Wojo out.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: cheese ball chaser on December 23, 2020, 08:06:52 PM
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on December 23, 2020, 08:05:25 PM
10.  Wojo out.

He does just enough to not get fired, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on December 23, 2020, 08:08:30 PM
I've seen this movie too many times
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: Johnny B on December 23, 2020, 08:08:45 PM
Can there be a game where these guys dont turn it over an absurd amount of times?? 4-17.. Elete nova offense or crap MU D?
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: Jockey on December 23, 2020, 08:08:49 PM
Quote from: tower912 on December 23, 2020, 08:02:31 PM

6.   Simply cannot have a bad shooting night against these guys. 
 

We shot 51%.

And still got blown out.

Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: 🏀 on December 23, 2020, 08:09:04 PM
Team needs a mental break.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: NCMUFan on December 23, 2020, 08:09:12 PM
Well at least we got to see basketball played.  First game of the season for DePaul.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on December 23, 2020, 08:09:41 PM
11. Only counts for one loss.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: Jockey on December 23, 2020, 08:10:00 PM
Quote from: Retire0 on December 23, 2020, 08:09:04 PM
Team needs a mental break.

They also need to order about a dozen new sets of hands.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: JakeBarnes on December 23, 2020, 08:10:14 PM
That was just sad. Team basically quit. No real other way to put it.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: NCMUFan on December 23, 2020, 08:10:58 PM
They play hard and fast, but not smart.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: nyg on December 23, 2020, 08:12:29 PM
Second game in a row MU shoots 50% and loses.

17 to 4 turnovers is ridiculous. That, along with MU three point defense really hurting.  These turnover problems have to stop.

Put the brakes on Carton and Garcia declaring for NBA draft. 

I think the refs were standing to close to the MU players making them turn the ball over.  Hey, got to blame them for something......

Work hard on ball handling, passing and hustle for loose balls and things will get better. 
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 23, 2020, 08:13:17 PM
Woof. Nothing good to say about that game besides Dexter and Oso not looking totally lost in extended minutes.

Took our lumps early. Stole some marquis wins.  I think we win 7 of our next 10. Lose the next one and I'll start panicking
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 23, 2020, 08:16:54 PM
Should be a knee slapper by the time March rolls around, aina?
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: Silent Verbal on December 23, 2020, 08:19:32 PM
Well, duh, Villanova's the goal.  The thing is, Wright was a really good coach at Hofstra before he ever got to Villanova.  Two NCAA Tournament appearances and was his conference's coach of the year.  He made his bones there and learned how to run a program.  Our guy is a stiff.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: mileskishnish72 on December 23, 2020, 08:20:12 PM
We shot 50% from 3, 43% from the line. 17-4 TO's, Theo 2 boards. Koby 2-10.

Just some things that jumped out from the box. Yes, we did look like the JV's. Yes, Nova is the goal.
Yes, the frosh looked unready. Again the formerly vaunted defense has an opponent in the 80's.
Talent-wise, execution-wise, game plan-wise, composure-wise, it was a mismatch.

Perhaps the D will look better against the rest of the league, since we've already had to deal once with X, CRT, SHU & Nova. Perhaps the frosh will blossom. The one factor that's extremely unlikely to change is the coaching. That's the bad news. The good news is that with this start we're not getting set up for the usual Wojo late-season collapse.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: NCMUFan on December 23, 2020, 08:23:11 PM
If the rest of the team performed like Cain we would have won.  Only bright spot from the game.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 23, 2020, 08:26:33 PM
Quote from: NCMUFan on December 23, 2020, 08:23:11 PM
If the rest of the team performed like Cain we would have won.  Only bright spot from the game.

He had a great first half. 
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: Bad_Reporter on December 23, 2020, 08:26:51 PM
Ill help Wojo out here.  He can use this same post game template from a few years back. Only difference is "I dunno, we played Villanova and Xavier once"....


Soft.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cbjD7Yf0f00
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: CountryRoads on December 23, 2020, 08:31:48 PM
Not giving up on the season yet with so many games on the schedule, but if they miss the tournament then it's time to pull the plug and restart. With instant eligible transfers, it won't take as long for a new coach to get a team together.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: pacearrow02 on December 23, 2020, 08:33:02 PM
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 23, 2020, 08:13:17 PM
Woof. Nothing good to say about that game besides Dexter and Oso not looking totally lost in extended minutes.

Took our lumps early. Stole some marquis wins.  I think we win 7 of our next 10. Lose the next one and I'll start panicking

💯!!

I still see no reason we can't scratch out 12-8 or 11-9 conference season very realistically.  Which I think we all would have been happy with before the season started.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: panda on December 23, 2020, 08:34:09 PM
Quote from: PaceArrow02 on December 23, 2020, 08:33:02 PM
💯!!

I still see no reason we can't scratch out 12-8 or 11-9 conference season very realistically.  Which I think we all would have been happy with before the season started.

Have you seen us try to defend ?
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: pacearrow02 on December 23, 2020, 08:36:17 PM
Quote from: panda on December 23, 2020, 08:34:09 PM
Have you seen us try to defend ?

I have
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: Bad_Reporter on December 23, 2020, 08:37:11 PM
Quote from: PaceArrow02 on December 23, 2020, 08:33:02 PM
💯!!

I still see no reason we can't scratch out 12-8 or 11-9 conference season very realistically.  Which I think we all would have been happy with before the season started.

Lovell, is that you?
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: panda on December 23, 2020, 08:38:16 PM
Quote from: PaceArrow02 on December 23, 2020, 08:36:17 PM
I have

And what gives you hope that things will improve coach Wojo?
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: pacearrow02 on December 23, 2020, 08:42:52 PM
Quote from: panda on December 23, 2020, 08:38:16 PM
And what gives you hope that things will improve coach Wojo?

I think we're appreciably better then butler, St. John's, DePaul, and Georgetown.  It's a big if but take care of business and go 7-1 against those 4.

Get the home game against X, split with Uconn and providence and there's your 11 wins without having to really overachieve from here on out imo.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: Johnny B on December 23, 2020, 08:43:36 PM
where do u find the  optimism?
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: pacearrow02 on December 23, 2020, 08:44:19 PM
Quote from: PaceArrow02 on December 23, 2020, 08:42:52 PM
I think we're appreciably better then butler, St. John's, DePaul, and Georgetown.  It's a big if but take care of business and go 7-1 against those 4.

Get the home game against X, split with Uconn and providence and there's your 11 wins without having to really overachieve from here on out imo.

Aside from Xavier and maybe UConn it wouldn't even take winning another game against a ranked opponent.  We're much better then our 5-5 record indicates.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: pacearrow02 on December 23, 2020, 08:46:40 PM
Quote from: Johnny B on December 23, 2020, 08:43:36 PM
where do u find the  optimism?

From watching those above mentioned teams play this year.  We have much better talent and way deeper then most of them.  We are light years away from the nova's of the world but we are still a very talented good team.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: hairy worthen on December 23, 2020, 08:47:34 PM
Good players, bad coach. Simple as that for me.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: The Sultan on December 23, 2020, 08:50:06 PM
Turned on the Bucks' game with 15 minutes to go.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: panda on December 23, 2020, 08:50:27 PM
Quote from: PaceArrow02 on December 23, 2020, 08:42:52 PM
I think we're appreciably better then butler, St. John's, DePaul, and Georgetown.  It's a big if but take care of business and go 7-1 against those 4.

Get the home game against X, split with Uconn and providence and there's your 11 wins without having to really overachieve from here on out imo.

Always exciting knowing that we can comfortably finish in 6th place again!
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: pacearrow02 on December 23, 2020, 08:50:32 PM
Quote from: hairy worthen on December 23, 2020, 08:47:34 PM
Good players, bad coach. Simple as that for me.

Talent differential should win us a bunch of games from here on out is what I'm saying. 

I didn't say anything about wojo out coaching anyone.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: brewcity77 on December 23, 2020, 08:52:23 PM
Finally...some Conference-only rankings:

What does all that mean? We are the worst defensive team, the worst at defending shots, the worst at sending teams to the line, the worst at turning teams over, the worst at limiting three point attempts, the worst at allowing teams to pass around until they find an open shooter. This defense is not good. This is just another Wojo defense. All it took was conference play to expose it.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: pacearrow02 on December 23, 2020, 08:52:43 PM
Quote from: panda on December 23, 2020, 08:50:27 PM
Always exciting knowing that we can comfortably finish in 6th place again!

I think any realistic fan expected a middle of the pack finish so ya somewhere between 4-6 is what I'm still seeing as a possibility.

Nova and Creighton are obviously cream of the crop.  From there it's a toss up between 3-7
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: Johnny B on December 23, 2020, 08:55:34 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 23, 2020, 08:52:23 PM
  • We won the eFG% battle and LOST BY 17!!! 59.8 to 59.2, that should at the minimum have you in the game every time, but...
  • 17 freaking turnovers? Against a team like that who only turned it over 4 times?
  • Collin Gillespie is wide open from three again.
  • Slow close-outs, late close-outs, or no close-outs. You can't give Villanova that many squeaky clean looks.
  • Offensive clinic. Multiple times we saw JRE posting up Carton or Theo out on the perimeter guarding Gillespie. Switches like that are a losing formula.
  • Jamal Cain had an awesome first half. Sadly, didn't last.
  • Villanova was simply the better team. Better in every aspect. I didn't expect a win, but I expected us to compete. We just looked outmatched in the second half.
  • Can we put to bed the idea this defense is better? Our strategy early on was basically luck. Our first 6 opponents all shot below 30% from three despite having plenty of good looks. Safe to say that has normalized, and it's ugly.
Finally...some Conference-only rankings:

  • Adjusted Defensive Efficiency: 10th
  • eFG% Defense: 10th
  • Defensive Turnover%: 10th
  • FTA/FGA Ratio: 10th
  • 3PFG% Defense: 10th
  • 3PFGA/FGA Ratio: 10th
  • Defensive Assist Ratio: 10th
[/b]

What does all that mean? We are the worst defensive team, the worst at defending shots, the worst at sending teams to the line, the worst at turning teams over, the worst at limiting three point attempts, the worst at allowing teams to pass around until they find an open shooter. This defense is not good. This is just another Wojo defense. All it took was conference play to expose it.

thats insane. just awful. It looks like it out there. Does one team have all the 11th place spots lol?
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: brewcity77 on December 23, 2020, 08:57:04 PM
Quote from: Johnny B on December 23, 2020, 08:55:34 PM
thats insane. just awful. It looks like it out there. Does one team have all the 11th place spots lol?

The only reason we're ahead of DePaul is because they haven't played a game yet. That won't change tonight because these are conference only stats, so a game against WIU won't change things.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: panda on December 23, 2020, 08:57:16 PM
Quote from: PaceArrow02 on December 23, 2020, 08:52:43 PM
I think any realistic fan expected a middle of the pack finish so ya somewhere between 4-6 is what I'm still seeing as a possibility.

Nova and Creighton are obviously cream of the crop.  From there it's a toss up between 3-7

Yep. Firmly entrenched in the middle to lower end of the conference as long as Wojo is here. The ceiling has been established.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: pacearrow02 on December 23, 2020, 09:03:14 PM
Quote from: panda on December 23, 2020, 08:57:16 PM
Yep. Firmly entrenched in the middle to lower end of the conference as long as Wojo is here. The ceiling has been established.

We finished 2nd two years ago?  A game from winning the conference.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: Johnny B on December 23, 2020, 09:03:51 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 23, 2020, 08:57:04 PM
The only reason we're ahead of DePaul is because they haven't played a game yet. That won't change tonight because these are conference only stats, so a game against WIU won't change things.
oh yeah.. oof
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: PointWarrior on December 23, 2020, 09:05:21 PM
This team will be lucky to win the .500 in Big East mediocrity trophy.   Watch a loss be GT and the bottom will fall out.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: hairy worthen on December 23, 2020, 09:06:04 PM
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 23, 2020, 08:50:06 PM
Turned on the Bucks' game with 15 minutes to go.
That didnt turn out so great either.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: panda on December 23, 2020, 09:10:11 PM
Quote from: PaceArrow02 on December 23, 2020, 09:03:14 PM
We finished 2nd two years ago?  A game from winning the conference.

Oh yea the weakest the new big East has ever been and our most talented team under Wojo. We should've ran away with conference right?

What about the other five seasons?
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: Johnny B on December 23, 2020, 09:12:44 PM
lol they go with a pic of wojo smiling for the thumbnail on the post game interview on the MU YouTube chanel
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: shoothoops on December 23, 2020, 09:24:21 PM
Dapper Jay postgame:

https://twitter.com/VUCoachJWright/status/1341945727052877824?s=19
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: WarriorFan on December 23, 2020, 09:27:38 PM
I still say that if our guys played a pick-up game against Nova it would be close or even a win.  Wojo's shambles of an offense takes away scoring opportunities and never gets anyone open.  Why he can't just have a defender stay home on a hot shooter and deny the ball is beyond me as well.  If the shooter cannot receive the pass, he cannot take the shot. 

Nova is a great team, great coach, great system.  Well done by them!
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: CountryRoads on December 23, 2020, 09:31:23 PM
Wow, was looking at Wojo's record and if you take out the 40 buy game wins (Buffalo game wasn't counted) and he's under .500 at 80-86.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: mu_hilltopper on December 23, 2020, 09:37:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jQcLBBCUx4

Man, I wish one of the reporters would have asked .. "Coach, your team is last in the conference in every conceivable defensive metric.  Any thoughts on that?"
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 23, 2020, 09:41:12 PM
We played good for 16-17 minutes of the first half but still trailed. This was a game where experience won out. Our young guys could not sustain their level of play because they've not had to. Nova is good. After half we realized we were finished. I thought this game was good for our guys. I'm actually not even discouraged after this one.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 23, 2020, 09:43:21 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 23, 2020, 08:52:23 PM
  • Can we put to bed the idea this defense is better? Our strategy early on was basically luck. Our first 6 opponents all shot below 30% from three despite having plenty of good looks. Safe to say that has normalized, and it's ugly.
Finally...some Conference-only rankings:

  • Adjusted Defensive Efficiency: 10th
  • eFG% Defense: 10th
  • Defensive Turnover%: 10th
  • FTA/FGA Ratio: 10th
  • 3PFG% Defense: 10th
  • 3PFGA/FGA Ratio: 10th
  • Defensive Assist Ratio: 10th
What does all that mean? We are the worst defensive team, the worst at defending shots, the worst at sending teams to the line, the worst at turning teams over, the worst at limiting three point attempts, the worst at allowing teams to pass around until they find an open shooter. This defense is not good. This is just another Wojo defense. All it took was conference play to expose it.

Nope. Not ready to concede until we play some conference games not against the top 4 offenses in the conference. I have a suspicion that our defensive numbers will improve dramatically
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 23, 2020, 09:48:33 PM
Quote from: Johnny B on December 23, 2020, 08:43:36 PM
where do u find the  optimism?

Because we've played 5 out of 7 of our toughest games this season and went 2-3 in those 5 games. Maybe that's fool's gold and we end up losing bigly. But that is where the optimism is coming from for me.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: cheese ball chaser on December 23, 2020, 09:53:19 PM
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 23, 2020, 09:43:21 PM

    Nope. Not ready to concede until we play some conference games not against the top 4 offenses in the conference. I have a suspicion that our defensive numbers will improve dramatically
KenPom's numbers adjust for the strength of the opponent.[/list]
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: brewcity77 on December 23, 2020, 09:53:37 PM
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 23, 2020, 09:43:21 PM

    Nope. Not ready to concede until we play some conference games not against the top 4 offenses in the conference. I have a suspicion that our defensive numbers will improve dramatically
Considering we're last in almost every important category, they really can't get much worse.

What's really worrying to me is the turnover numbers on both ends. We are last in conference play in both offensive and defensive turnover rate. You can't give the opponents extra possessions every single night and expect to win. And while it's easy to say these are correctable errors, our offensive turnovers are created from too much dribbling (Carton seems to be getting that from Howard) and guys not coming to isolated ball-handlers that picked up their dribble (been going on for years) while our defensive turnovers seem to be deliberately limited by Wojo players seeing their defensive steal percentages drop virtually every year and players that excel at stealing the ball spending more time on the bench if they allow pursuit of a steal to take them out of defensive position.[/list]
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 23, 2020, 10:00:01 PM
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 23, 2020, 09:41:12 PM
We played good for 16-17 minutes of the first half but still trailed. This was a game where experience won out. Our young guys could not sustain their level of play because they've not had to. Nova is good. After half we realized we were finished. I thought this game was good for our guys. I'm actually not even discouraged after this one.

We start three seniors and have one coming off the bench.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: Johnny B on December 23, 2020, 10:02:17 PM
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 23, 2020, 10:00:01 PM
We start three seniors and have one coming off the bench.
gregs a jr.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: brewcity77 on December 23, 2020, 10:03:48 PM
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 23, 2020, 09:48:33 PM
Because we've played 5 out of 7 of our toughest games this season and went 2-3 in those 5 games. Maybe that's fool's gold and we end up losing bigly. But that is where the optimism is coming from for me.

Nova, Creighton, Wisconsin, UCLA, and who? Xavier? Is that any tougher than at UConn, Seton Hall, or Providence?

I don't think Xavier's offense is all that great. They were a sub-50 offense before getting red hot against Oklahoma and us. It just seemed more real because they had 10 days between games that made it look like they were a legit top-25 offense.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: Viper on December 23, 2020, 10:07:07 PM
Quote from: cheese ball chaser on December 23, 2020, 08:06:52 PM
He does just enough to not get fired, unfortunately.
the Clay Helton of college basketball
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 23, 2020, 10:12:31 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 23, 2020, 10:03:48 PM
Nova, Creighton, Wisconsin, UCLA, and who? Xavier? Is that any tougher than at UConn, Seton Hall, or Providence?

I don't think Xavier's offense is all that great. They were a sub-50 offense before getting red hot against Oklahoma and us. It just seemed more real because they had 10 days between games that made it look like they were a legit top-25 offense.

I thought Xavier was the third best team in the conference before Stanley got his waiver.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: Viper on December 23, 2020, 10:26:51 PM
If MU had Jay Wright as HC for the past 15 yrs or so, would MU enjoy the success that 'Nova currently has? I mean, is it just coaching?, or is there more? What's 'Nova have that current BE schools with strong basketball bloodlines, for ex., StJ, GT, UConn, MU...don't have? Maybe it is JWright. Year in, year out the dude gets it.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on December 23, 2020, 10:48:19 PM
MU wins three of the four factors but gets hammered on turnover rate: 25.7 to 6.0.  Rinse and repeat. It's pretty obvious why this team keeps losing. To win three out of the four factors and getting blown out is pretty unusual.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: WarriorPride68 on December 23, 2020, 11:02:26 PM
Knowing Lovell he gave Woj another extension after we beat Wisconsin

On the bright side; just what the doctor ordered in Georgetown up next. Lose that one and scoop will burn to ground lol
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: Silent Verbal on December 23, 2020, 11:18:59 PM
I wonder if they pipe in boos for Wojo during intros to make the atmosphere as realistic as possible.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: DoctorV on December 23, 2020, 11:21:32 PM
Quote from: Marq3332 on December 23, 2020, 10:26:51 PM
If MU had Jay Wright as HC for the past 15 yrs or so, would MU enjoy the success that 'Nova currently has? I mean, is it just coaching?, or is there more? What's 'Nova have that current BE schools with strong basketball bloodlines, for ex., StJ, GT, UConn, MU...don't have? Maybe it is JWright. Year in, year out the dude gets it.

Lets just take this years squad and compare it to MU-

Jay Wrights most recent recruiting classes included top30 Jahvon Quinerly and Bryon Antoine as non factors (transfer and injury).

This current squad has (247 rankings)
Robinson-Earl ranked 16
Jermain Samuels 46
Justin Moore 57
Caleb Daniels transfer from Tulane
Collin Gillespie ranked 200
2 seniors, 1 junior, 2 sophomores

Bench includes swider 44, slater 53, Dixon 77.

Wojo has
DJ Carton 34 (from OSU)
Dawson Garcia 36
Koby McEwan transfer from Utah state
Cain 145
Theo 204
3 seniors, 1 sophomore and one frosh

Bench includes Torrence 75, Lewis 100, Oso 129, Elliott 224, Akanno, Perez

So, it's becomes obvious that Jay Wright is stronger top to bottom in his recruiting, and would've been way stronger with Quiney and Antoine, but wojo woulda been stronger with Joey and Bailey (Sam would have graduated).

That said, I'm not quite sure the difference should be as wide as a top 5 team versus a .500 team. On paper, the gap seems like it should be much more narrow.
The game isn't played on paper however.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: MU82 on December 23, 2020, 11:59:04 PM
Between the turnovers and the wide-open Nova shooters, that was a disappointing, frustrating game. That it came on the heels of the Xavier and Seton Hall flame-outs just magnifies it.

There are many explanations for our situation, and bad coaching is at or very near the top of the list.

I mean, just for shytes and giggles, don't you tell your guys, "For the next 4 minutes, until the next TV timeout, we're not leaving our man open on the perimeter. We might give up some layups, but I don't want to see another wide-open 3"?

Anyhoo, I sure as heck hope TAMU and a few others are right about the schedule getting easier and our heroes turning the season around ... but even though I am one of this board's optimists, I have extreme doubts.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: Silent Verbal on December 24, 2020, 12:17:28 AM
I think a big turning point came in the second half when we fell down by about 15 and Wojo subbed our entire lineup out and replaced them with Symir, Dex, Elliott, and...I can't remember who the other two guys were.  Anyway, we were down 15 at that point and there were about 15 minutes to go in the half.  We were a couple stops and a couple buckets away from making a run and cutting the lead down.  There was still plenty of time left to swing the momentum of the game.  Instead, Wojo had to show everybody how pissed he was by putting Symir, Dex, and Elliott into a game that hadn't been completely decided.  What happened?  A few more minutes ticked off the clock, and by the time the starters came back in, we were down 18 instead of 15 and the game was completely over from there.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: willie warrior on December 24, 2020, 05:52:41 AM
Quote from: cheese ball chaser on December 23, 2020, 08:06:52 PM
He does just enough to not get fired, unfortunately.
Yeah and I am sure that performance against Nova was "just enough", eh. As all settle for more mediocrity, or even worse. Time to change.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 24, 2020, 05:53:14 AM
Quote from: Johnny B on December 23, 2020, 10:02:17 PM
gregs a jr.

Sorry RS Junior.  Point stands that we have plenty of experience. 
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: willie warrior on December 24, 2020, 05:53:46 AM
Quote from: Retire0 on December 23, 2020, 08:09:04 PM
Team needs a mental break.
....because they are tired.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: willie warrior on December 24, 2020, 05:57:42 AM
Quote from: CountryRoads on December 23, 2020, 08:31:48 PM
Not giving up on the season yet with so many games on the schedule, but if they miss the tournament then it's time to pull the plug and restart. With instant eligible transfers, it won't take as long for a new coach to get a team together.
But wait, no school fires the coach during a pandemic. (As we see football coaches getting the axe)
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: muwarrior69 on December 24, 2020, 06:15:29 AM
Quote from: MU82 on December 23, 2020, 11:59:04 PM
Between the turnovers and the wide-open Nova shooters, that was a disappointing, frustrating game. That it came on the heels of the Xavier and Seton Hall flame-outs just magnifies it.

There are many explanations for our situation, and bad coaching is at or very near the top of the list.

I mean, just for shytes and giggles, don't you tell your guys, "For the next 4 minutes, until the next TV timeout, we're not leaving our man open on the perimeter. We might give up some layups, but I don't want to see another wide-open 3"?

Anyhoo, I sure as heck hope TAMU and a few others are right about the schedule getting easier and our heroes turning the season around ... but even though I am one of this board's optimists, I have extreme doubts.

I'm in your camp '82. What I don't understand is that Wojo gets talented guys (Dawson, Carton) yet fails to have them compete at a level we know they can. As many here have said at least Buzz coached his guys up whereas Wojo seems to coach his guys down. There is no team chemistry; were up then were down.

...but even in the this dark age of MU basketball I will always follow and support the team. I'm 74 and God willing I may just live long enough to see MU success again.

Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: shoothoops on December 24, 2020, 07:29:05 AM
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 23, 2020, 09:53:37 PM
Considering we're last in almost every important category, they really can't get much worse.

What's really worrying to me is the turnover numbers on both ends. We are last in conference play in both offensive and defensive turnover rate. You can't give the opponents extra possessions every single night and expect to win. And while it's easy to say these are correctable errors, our offensive turnovers are created from too much dribbling (Carton seems to be getting that from Howard) and guys not coming to isolated ball-handlers that picked up their dribble (been going on for years) while our defensive turnovers seem to be deliberately limited by Wojo players seeing their defensive steal percentages drop virtually every year and players that excel at stealing the ball spending more time on the bench if they allow pursuit of a steal to take them out of defensive position.[/list]

Many of MU's offensive turnovers are passing while moving towards the basket. These have been feeding a big, off of a pick and roll, transition, feeding the post, drive and dish, etc...especially feeding in tight spaces with pace. The pass is top often poor, and so is the catch.

MU's fundamentals are too often sloppy. Nova's are often consistently crisp.

MU had a good offensive first ten minutes, with better spacing, moving with and without the ball, making the extra pass, shooting distance in rythm, isolating post. Example, the in rythm corner three for Cain is the former Sacar play. This needs to be the norm, crisp, not flashes.

That later became Sy and DJ pounding the dribble. Nova better defending the lane and post. Chucking ill advised 3's instead of in rythm, missing FT's...etc...and it affects the the other end of the floor.

Nova immediately exposed Sy with CG. Burned Theo on switches top of key. Took advantage of Greg's injury footwork.

Too often we have to use words such as sloppy, or we'll clean that up a bit etc...that's for practice and off season.

Theo clearly has improved his offensive post play and FT's. Significantly so. And that's great, wish it was sooner, but it's great. He however has struggled with anticipating a smaller defender's desire to draw contact and flop. We could take a little thing for many MU players.

I wish Greg could run like the wind because he consistently understand offense better than anyone on the team.

It too often feels as though MU is piecing things together here and there, and not just this season.

Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: tower912 on December 24, 2020, 07:54:21 AM
The sun came up.   Well, it might have.   Lake effect snow squalls are making even that uncertain. 

1.  Running the OOB lob to Dexter when he was in for Cain.   He went up in a crowd, got it, twisting, made the shot.   Later, he made a hell of a baseline drive off of pump fake, laying it in.     Two months ago he dunks that.   In February, he dunks it again.   
2.   Team did what it was supposed to do for 18 minutes.   
3.   Villanova has the lowest turnover rate around.   
4.   Lewis and Garcia do look tired.   And it is showing up in lack of attention to detail and jacking up 3's because they are less work than getting a better shot.    And Lewis hasn't made a 3 in a while.   
5.  10 games in 28 days.    To start a season.    Going into last night's game, MU and Villanova had the same number of wins.   Villanova had played 3 fewer games.   
6.   Symir actually driving hard to the basket.   Only to get ingloriously stuffed.   But still, he attacked.   
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: MU82 on December 24, 2020, 02:59:14 PM
Quote from: Silent Verbal on December 24, 2020, 12:17:28 AM
I think a big turning point came in the second half when we fell down by about 15 and Wojo subbed our entire lineup out and replaced them with Symir, Dex, Elliott, and...I can't remember who the other two guys were.  Anyway, we were down 15 at that point and there were about 15 minutes to go in the half.  We were a couple stops and a couple buckets away from making a run and cutting the lead down.  There was still plenty of time left to swing the momentum of the game.  Instead, Wojo had to show everybody how pissed he was by putting Symir, Dex, and Elliott into a game that hadn't been completely decided.  What happened?  A few more minutes ticked off the clock, and by the time the starters came back in, we were down 18 instead of 15 and the game was completely over from there.

Turning point was long before that. It was 28-28 late in the first half, and although we weren't playing all that well and were missing FTs, we were matching Nova hoop for hoop. Then they scored the next 8 points. And then they opened the second half by blitzing us to take a 15-point lead.

I was glad Wojo did the hockey substitution. It sent the message (or at least it should have): "You're not working hard enough, you're not doing winning things."

Either way, we weren't gonna win that game.

It's funny, a couple games ago, a few Scoopers blasted Wojo for not holding players accountable. Now he does, and you blast him for that.

There's a long list of Wojo's failings from last night; for me, what you mentioned wasn't even on the list. Others might disagree.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: Silent Verbal on December 24, 2020, 03:55:30 PM
Quote from: MU82 on December 24, 2020, 02:59:14 PM
Turning point was long before that. It was 28-28 late in the first half, and although we weren't playing all that well and were missing FTs, we were matching Nova hoop for hoop. Then they scored the next 8 points. And then they opened the second half by blitzing us to take a 15-point lead.

I was glad Wojo did the hockey substitution. It sent the message (or at least it should have): "You're not working hard enough, you're not doing winning things."

Either way, we weren't gonna win that game.

It's funny, a couple games ago, a few Scoopers blasted Wojo for not holding players accountable. Now he does, and you blast him for that.

There's a long list of Wojo's failings from last night; for me, what you mentioned wasn't even on the list. Others might disagree.

While I could be wrong about this, the only time I've griped about Wojo not holding a player accountable is when it came to his treatment of Markus.  His favoritism when it came to Markus set the program back, IMO.  However, that's neither here nor there in this thread.

You bring up an interesting point when you say we were blitzed to start the second half.  How many times has that happened to us, especially at home?  I feel like more often than not, the opposing team will come out guns blazing and erase any lead we had or build on their own.  Would be interesting to look up how Wojo's teams have performed in the first four minutes of the second half over the years.  I'm guessing the results wouldn't be pretty.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on December 24, 2020, 07:27:31 PM
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on December 23, 2020, 08:20:12 PM
We shot 50% from 3, 43% from the line. 17-4 TO's, Theo 2 boards. Koby 2-10.

Just some things that jumped out from the box. Yes, we did look like the JV's. Yes, Nova is the goal.
Yes, the frosh looked unready. Again the formerly vaunted defense has an opponent in the 80's.
Talent-wise, execution-wise, game plan-wise, composure-wise, it was a mismatch.

Perhaps the D will look better against the rest of the league, since we've already had to deal once with X, CRT, SHU & Nova. Perhaps the frosh will blossom. The one factor that's extremely unlikely to change is the coaching. That's the bad news. The good news is that with this start we're not getting set up for the usual Wojo late-season collapse.

Didn't the announcers say Nova has won their last 5 games by 18 points or more?

Steve Lavin talked about the shooting percentage and turnovers.  He said the good news for Marquette is turnovers are collectible in season.  Also good news is that we are shooting well.  He said If the team is not shooting well or making shots then that is not cotrectible in season.  That's your players.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: brewcity77 on December 24, 2020, 07:29:41 PM
I think the switching is a problem. When you have a Buzz roster full of switchables, or when Kansas has a 6'5", 220-lb point guard and everyone else gets bigger, you can do those switches. But when 6'2" gets switched on to JRE in the post, when Theo gets switched on to Gillespie at the top of the key, that's not working. So many of the uncontested or poorly contested shots are because our roster can't switch 1-5 and teams use those mismatches to create space or size disparities.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: HutchwasClutch on December 24, 2020, 10:04:49 PM
Quote from: Silent Verbal on December 23, 2020, 11:18:59 PM
I wonder if they pipe in boos for Wojo during intros to make the atmosphere as realistic as possible.

The boos would be raining down and unmistakable this year if there were fans. And deservedly so.
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 24, 2020, 11:42:58 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 24, 2020, 07:29:41 PM
I think the switching is a problem. When you have a Buzz roster full of switchables, or when Kansas has a 6'5", 220-lb point guard and everyone else gets bigger, you can do those switches. But when 6'2" gets switched on to JRE in the post, when Theo gets switched on to Gillespie at the top of the key, that's not working. So many of the uncontested or poorly contested shots are because our roster can't switch 1-5 and teams use those mismatches to create space or size disparities.

I was thinking the same thing watching the Nova game. I get the concept of switching so you don't give an open look immediately off the screen but Nova just moved the ball until John was on Gillespie and Carton was on JRE resulting in an even more open shot than the one the switching is designed to prevent. Poor coaching decision IMHO
Title: Re: Super Nova
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on December 25, 2020, 07:26:29 AM
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 24, 2020, 11:42:58 PM
I was thinking the same thing watching the Nova game. I get the concept of switching so you don't give an open look immediately off the screen but Nova just moved the ball until John was on Gillespie and Carton was on JRE resulting in an even more open shot than the one the switching is designed to prevent. Poor coaching decision IMHO

I found this excellent article the other day on switching from two years ago. With Nova and Gonzaga mentions but very relevant.  #1 is to get the mismatch to get the center on the PG. Theo was a -20 versus Nova because he isn't that switchable (no knock on Theo).

As in past Nova games, Wojo threw in that zone defense and it worked in the 1st half but Wright made adjustments at half. Wojo countered with the full court Scrambled Eggs line up, and it disrupted for a bit too until Nova adjusted.

MU Switchables are Elliott and maybe Dex. A little bit Cain and Lewis, who have limited foot speed. Tough against 4 or 5 out offenses, especially if hitting.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2018-10-24/6-things-know-about-switch-defensive-tactic-thats-taking%3famp
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