On the bigger picture, like all of us, I'm just enjoying getting to watch every game we get. But as the season unfolds, I wonder how it will all go into the record books. Will everything have an asterisk?
We've all discussed quite a bit how, given the situation, this will be a "free" year for coaches who underperform. But given a couple unexpected wins, how about in the opposite direction? If we achieve great things this year, does it "count" (i.e. does Wojo get a big extension)? What if we make a Final Four in a tournament that's missing a large number of high-profile teams? Do we still hang a banner?
Strange times.
Yes it counts.
It will effect some things. For example, if MU only plays, for example, 22 games and goes 15-7. Nojoers will point out it his fewest number of wins since his first year and use it as a reason to fire him. It will affect players who play 4 years but won't play as many games so won't be as high on all-time lists.
What will really frost the nojoers is if the team does well-ish, in the midst of all the chaos, the powers that be will have less reason to get rid of Wojo and more reason to extend him.
So the only way this season hurts Wojo is if there is a complete and utter collapse or a scandal.
In a perfect world, it would remind us that it is just a game and these are just young men representing our school and that we should appreciate the opportunity to watch sports for fun.
Of course it counts. Just enjoy what we have and don't worry too much about it.
The players are still playing and celebrating wins; the coaches are still teaching players and strategizing for games; and the fans are still hopeful, practical or critical, to match their personal natures.
Personally, the wins over UW@Madison and Creighton were as fun to watch as any regular season top-10 wins I can remember, so it counts to me.
And it definitely counts to my cat...who still eyes me suspiciously after the scream I let out for Justin's tip-in.
If we do well, it counts. If not, Covid year!
Lakers championship doesn't count. Dodgers championship doesn't count. If the Packers win the Super Bowl it damn well counts. If not, the Chiefs championship won't count.
Yes. Every sport being played counts. It's a weird season but it's weird for everybody not just a few teams
Is there a plan already for what happens if a tourney team tests positive? Will it be it a forfeit?
No asterisks on the way I celebrated Lewis' tip-in or the Carton three from the corner the other night.
Well if the Dodgers are World Series Champions I guess this season will count.
...and if my Giants win the Super Bowl it will definitely count.
Everyone paying under the same rules. Definitely counts.
Heck, last year us and a load of other teams had a NCAA tourney appearance taken from us in "not counting".
So as far as I'm concerned we could Oregon Football(backed into title game due to Covid) our way into the tourney this year and it would count as a bid in my eyes.
Quote from: 1SE on December 16, 2020, 08:53:46 AM
Is there a plan already for what happens if a tourney team tests positive? Will it be it a forfeit?
Last I heard, the NCAA was hoping to formally announce plans for a single-site (Indy) tournament by the end of the year. I suspect the plans will include the details of the bubble(s), including testing criteria and outcomes.
That said, I think it would have to be a forfeit. With so little time between games, I just don't see how they could 'wait' while a team is quarantining.
This may already have been discussed elsewhere, but what is the NCAA saying about eligibility for the basketball season. Football players can play an extra year if they want as this season is not counting against their eligibility. Is it the same for basketball?
Quote from: Norm on December 16, 2020, 09:28:51 AM
This may already have been discussed elsewhere, but what is the NCAA saying about eligibility for the basketball season. Football players can play an extra year if they want as this season is not counting against their eligibility. Is it the same for basketball?
Yes. This was announced in October.
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/di-council-extends-eligibility-winter-sport-student-athletes
Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 16, 2020, 09:25:54 AM
Last I heard, the NCAA was hoping to formally announce plans for a single-site (Indy) tournament by the end of the year. I suspect the plans will include the details of the bubble(s), including testing criteria and outcomes.
That said, I think it would have to be a forfeit. With so little time between games, I just don't see how they could 'wait' while a team is quarantining.
I don't know why this would be hard to set up. In my area there are adult sports leagues that do their own 15-minute testing, every week before game day, and that require any spectators do a 15-minute test before entering the gym.
If an adult rec league can set something like that up, I'm pretty sure the NCAA can.
For those curious, the normal $200 individual entry fee for the league, was increased to $400 to cover testing costs, and spectators have to pay their own fee for test...not sure the cost.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 16, 2020, 08:58:58 AM
Everyone paying under the same rules. Definitely counts.
I realize that's just a typo, but struck me as hilarious that everyone is PAYING under the same rules. I always thought some teams had different rules for paying.
Of course it doesn't count. It's all a simulation. You are in the Matrix.
Nope, doesn't count.
So the hyper-haters of Wojo shouldn't bother paying any attention to the contract extension he'll receive.
Quote from: MU82 on December 16, 2020, 09:47:32 AM
Nope, doesn't count.
So the hyper-haters of Wojo shouldn't bother paying any attention to the contract extension he'll receive.
Oh God. I'm not sure I am prepared for that to happen.
Quote from: leever on December 16, 2020, 09:43:03 AM
I realize that's just a typo, but struck me as hilarious that everyone is PAYING under the same rules. I always thought some teams had different rules for paying.
Same.
Yes. Next Question
Quote from: 1SE on December 16, 2020, 08:53:46 AM
Is there a plan already for what happens if a tourney team tests positive? Will it be it a forfeit?
Fauci says herd immunity by end of March start of April.
Quote from: 1SE on December 16, 2020, 08:00:21 AM
We've all discussed quite a bit how, given the situation, this will be a "free" year for coaches who underperform.
The reason this may be "free" year for some underperforming coaches is not because the season is getting an asterisk. No one reasonable is going to say a bad performance this season can't be held against a coach (unless maybe they are repeatedly rocked by COVID issues and never get to practice). The reason is because some schools may not be able to justify paying millions to fire an employee in the midst of a financial crisis caused by a global pandemic.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 16, 2020, 09:58:58 AM
Oh God. I'm not sure I am prepared for that to happen.
I was trying to be hilarious, naturally. But you know the way things work in big-time college sports: Most coaches, at least most who are valued by their schools at all, are not "left hanging" with too little time left on their contracts because of the recruiting disadvantages such situations present.
So Lovell & Co might very well decide they need to make a decision on Wojo's contract in 2021. And if we have a decent season at all, it's not crazy to think he'll get extended.
So y'all better prepare for it.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 16, 2020, 10:18:24 AM
The reason this may be "free" year for some underperforming coaches is not because the season is getting an asterisk. No one reasonable is going to say a bad performance this season can't be held against a coach (unless maybe they are repeatedly rocked by COVID issues and never get to practice). The reason is because some schools may not be able to justify paying millions to fire an employee in the midst of a financial crisis caused by a global pandemic.
And it certainly hasn't stopped college football coaches from being fired.
Quote from: BLM on December 16, 2020, 08:39:34 AM
If we do well, it counts. If not, Covid year!
Lakers championship doesn't count. Dodgers championship doesn't count. If the Packers win the Super Bowl it damn well counts. If not, the Chiefs championship won't count.
Exactly.
Quote from: Norm on December 16, 2020, 09:28:51 AM
This may already have been discussed elsewhere, but what is the NCAA saying about eligibility for the basketball season. Football players can play an extra year if they want as this season is not counting against their eligibility. Is it the same for basketball?
Unless you play for WI, they nixed that for their spring sports
student athletes
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 16, 2020, 10:25:13 AM
And it certainly hasn't stopped college football coaches from being fired.
And they got killed by press & public opinion for the huge buyout.
Wojo only wins fake, pandemic seasons.
Quote from: Newsdreams on December 16, 2020, 05:52:45 PM
And they got killed by press & public opinion for the huge buyout.
No one really cares enough to matter.
Quote from: tower912 on December 16, 2020, 08:08:44 AM
For example, if MU only plays, for example, 22 games and goes 15-7. Nojoers will point out it his fewest number of wins since his first year and use it as a reason to fire him.
Conversely, if Marquette plays 22 games and goes 11-11 projoers will point out it the second fewest losses he's had in any of his 7 seasons and will demand he get a large raise and an extension.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 16, 2020, 07:24:54 PM
Conversely, if Marquette plays 22 games and goes 11-11 projoers will point out it the second fewest losses he's had in any of his 7 seasons and will demand he get a large raise and an extension.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-z6z9L1FhmMs/V7O2_aqHNGI/AAAAAAAAQAg/c4_YFgnjPtMAzT6xfyzGY0_F5LZIpN1wQCLcB/s1600/eeyore_rain_cloud.jpg)
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 16, 2020, 07:33:39 PM
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-z6z9L1FhmMs/V7O2_aqHNGI/AAAAAAAAQAg/c4_YFgnjPtMAzT6xfyzGY0_F5LZIpN1wQCLcB/s1600/eeyore_rain_cloud.jpg)
My post was in jest, as I assume was Tower's.
If the utterly joyless here miss that, so be it.
Lennys the Eeyore calling me joyless is the height of irony.
Back on topic, this year could be great for Wojo if he has success. No fans to boo him even when the team is winning and if he managed a little NCAA run, say Sweet 16, he would presumably come back to the Fiserv with half the students (current and next year's freshmen) only knowing that bit of success. And if it's a typical, middling seed, no NCAA wins, it's nothing lost.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 17, 2020, 09:47:20 AM
Back on topic, this year could be great for Wojo if he has success. No fans to boo him even when the team is winning and if he managed a little NCAA run, say Sweet 16, he would presumably come back to the Fiserv with half the students (current and next year's freshmen) only knowing that bit of success. And if it's a typical, middling seed, no NCAA wins, it's nothing lost.
This thought occurred to me as well. It'd buy him a huge length of rope and get students engaged again. Im curious to see how fickle our alumni are, there's definitely posters who'd find a fault "X team was just over seeded" "he still has a bunch to prove" "we got embarrassed once we got there" but I wonder if the majority of alumni that have let go tickets would hop back on the wagon.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 17, 2020, 09:47:20 AM
Back on topic, this year could be great for Wojo if he has success. No fans to boo him even when the team is winning and if he managed a little NCAA run, say Sweet 16, he would presumably come back to the Fiserv with half the students (current and next year's freshmen) only knowing that bit of success. And if it's a typical, middling seed, no NCAA wins, it's nothing lost.
No one really seems on board with this, and fair enough, but is a Sweet 16 *really* a Sweet 16 if half the top-25 is ineligible for the tourney due to positive tests? Or if your round of 32 team has to forfeit due to a positive test? And not in the sense that it still wouldn't be a ton of fun to watch a game on the 2nd weekend regardless, but more in the sense of "Wojo has a Sweet 16 - let's compensate commensurately"
Preemptively making excuses for why Wojo's potential NCAA Tournament success doesn't count, before we know whether or not he'll have that NCAA Tournament success. I love it.
MU is winning a NCAA tourney game this season. And it will count.
Quote from: 1SE on December 17, 2020, 10:36:52 AM
No one really seems on board with this, and fair enough, but is a Sweet 16 *really* a Sweet 16 if half the top-25 is ineligible for the tourney due to positive tests? Or if your round of 32 team has to forfeit due to a positive test? And not in the sense that it still wouldn't be a ton of fun to watch a game on the 2nd weekend regardless, but more in the sense of "Wojo has a Sweet 16 - let's compensate commensurately"
Well then it happens. No use getting pre-emptively upset about it. Enjoy the ride regardless.
Quote from: BLM on December 17, 2020, 10:38:42 AM
Preemptively making excuses for why Wojo's potential NCAA Tournament success doesn't count, before we know whether or not he'll have that NCAA Tournament success. I love it.
Just a thought experiment on a fan message board. It's been talked about all over here how if this season ends up a disaster it won't really count against Wojo. So the flipside, if you're Scholl do you give Wojo a "performance based" extension based on results this year if there ends up being significant non-participation in the tournament?
Quote from: 1SE on December 17, 2020, 10:36:52 AM
No one really seems on board with this, and fair enough, but is a Sweet 16 *really* a Sweet 16 if half the top-25 is ineligible for the tourney due to positive tests? Or if your round of 32 team has to forfeit due to a positive test? And not in the sense that it still wouldn't be a ton of fun to watch a game on the 2nd weekend regardless, but more in the sense of "Wojo has a Sweet 16 - let's compensate commensurately"
And yes, your scenario will result in him getting an extension and a raise.
Quote from: 1SE on December 17, 2020, 10:36:52 AM
No one really seems on board with this, and fair enough, but is a Sweet 16 *really* a Sweet 16 if half the top-25 is ineligible for the tourney due to positive tests? Or if your round of 32 team has to forfeit due to a positive test? And not in the sense that it still wouldn't be a ton of fun to watch a game on the 2nd weekend regardless, but more in the sense of "Wojo has a Sweet 16 - let's compensate commensurately"
Yes. Nobody's claiming Liverpool didn't win, Lakers, Dodgers, Lightning, etc. everybody's dealing with the same issues. This is no different than any other injury or illness. Should we claim there should be an asterisk next to the 2009 season because Dom James had a broken foot? Nope, because any player on any team can get injured. Similarly, any player can get Covid thus it's a level playing field.
This season counts twice ... just like votes in swing states!
Quote from: tower912 on December 17, 2020, 10:43:47 AM
And yes, your scenario will result in him getting an extension and a raise.
Hopefully we get to see the answer to that question!
Quote from: 1SE on December 17, 2020, 10:42:55 AM
Just a thought experiment on a fan message board. It's been talked about all over here how if this season ends up a disaster it won't really count against Wojo. So the flipside, if you're Scholl do you give Wojo a "performance based" extension based on results this year if there ends up being significant non-participation in the tournament?
I'm guessing it will depend on how the rest of the season went. If MU goes 15-5 in the Big East and shares the BE title, makes a BE Tournament title game, and then gets a 1 seed because the 12 teams ranked higher than them all have covid cases, then makes a run to the E8 before being upset by 2 seed Nebraska, who only got in because 300 other teams had covid cases? I'd say you still extend him, even if you explode about losing to a Nebraska team who never should've been in the field.
If MU goes 9-11 in the BE, gets in as the last at large bid after losing it's first round BE Tournament game, sees the top 30 teams all miss the Tourney due to covid, and then makes the S16 with wins over Elon and Coastal Carolina before losing to Iowa State? Probably not.
We won the TBT over those Cancer A-holes. No one can take that from us.
Quote from: 1SE on December 17, 2020, 10:36:52 AM
No one really seems on board with this, and fair enough, but is a Sweet 16 *really* a Sweet 16 if half the top-25 is ineligible for the tourney due to positive tests? Or if your round of 32 team has to forfeit due to a positive test? And not in the sense that it still wouldn't be a ton of fun to watch a game on the 2nd weekend regardless, but more in the sense of "Wojo has a Sweet 16 - let's compensate commensurately"
You can only play the season that's put in front of you. There were no asterisks in for Villanova in 2016 when two top-20 kenpom teams (Louisville & SMU) weren't in the field because of sanctions. However it ends up working out, you take the successes you can get.
You want to know if this season counts?
Well, go to the expert!
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/3o7TKu5aIDY4tU3SXm/200.gif)
I think it's more than likely Wojo takes a pay-cut this year in exchange for more years and backend pay.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 17, 2020, 07:41:37 AM
Lennys the Eeyore calling me joyless is the height of irony.
Fluffy the Joyless posting a photo of a character from a children's book to make a "funny" confirms an underdeveloped, childish sense of humor and an infantile taste in literature.
He's trying sooooo hard, though.
I'm just imagining Lenny looking around the internet for memes and images from F Scott Fitzgerald and Harper Lee thinking to himself, "Now this guy gets it."
1SE, if the season tunes to crap, will you be giving Wojo a pass?
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 17, 2020, 10:41:05 AM
MU is winning a NCAA tourney game this season. And it will count.
We got this.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 17, 2020, 10:41:05 AM
MU is winning a NCAA tourney game this season. And it will count.
Bold prediction. What in Wojos track record at MU leads you to that prediction?
Quote from: willie warrior on December 17, 2020, 07:07:43 PM
Bold prediction. What in Wojos track record at MU leads you to that prediction?
Boldness?
Quote from: BLM on December 17, 2020, 06:20:07 PM
I'm just imagining Lenny looking around the internet for memes and images from F Scott Fitzgerald and Harper Lee thinking to himself, "Now this guy gets it."
I wouldn't have to go "looking around on the internet" any more than Fluffy did. Some people like literature, others prefer children's books. Sounds as if you (like Fluff) fit in the latter. Not that there's anything wrong with it.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 17, 2020, 08:16:18 PM
I wouldn't have to go "looking around on the internet" any more than Fluffy did. Some people like literature, others prefer children's books. Sounds as if you (like Fluff) fit in the latter. Not that there's anything wrong with it.
I simply picked a pic that you would understand given your current cognitive abilities. Glad you figured it out!
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 17, 2020, 08:42:54 PM
I simply picked a pic that you would understand given your current cognitive abilities. Glad you figured it out!
LOL. Eeyore is as deep as you can go.
But keep trying, Fluffy One!
Quote from: tower912 on December 17, 2020, 06:42:44 PM
1SE, if the season tunes to crap, will you be giving Wojo a pass?
I think either way the evaluation of Wojo this year should depend on the slate of teams we actually play and how we do against them. Hopefully we get to play most of them and then we can see how it shakes out.