Brett McMurphy @Brett_McMurphy
NCAA announces its in preliminary talks with State of Indiana and the city of Indianapolis to potentially host the entire 68-team NCAA tournament around the metropolitan area during the coordinated dates in March & April.
Makes perfect sense. It would also make sense to play it out over two and a half weeks instead of three and a half.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 16, 2020, 10:41:16 AM
Makes perfect sense. It would also make sense to play it out over two and a half weeks instead of three and a half.
If this does in fact happen, that would be quite the two and a half weeks of basketball.
In Indy, you say?
I'm curious how this would work. Presumably they are going to establish a bubble. Is there an event space large enough to host 68 teams and play multiple games simultaneously? I would imagine that even an convention center attached to an arena would struggle to handle the first 1-2 days of games unless the tournament games were spread out to include games on M-W.
Quote from: asdfasdf on November 16, 2020, 12:12:20 PM
I'm curious how this would work. Presumably they are going to establish a bubble. Is there an event space large enough to host 68 teams and play multiple games simultaneously? I would imagine that even an convention center attached to an arena would struggle to handle the first 1-2 days of games unless the tournament games were spread out to include games on M-W.
They'll have the ability to span out the first and second round to places like Bloomington and then once it's down to the S16 you just bus all those teams into Indianapolis.
Quote from: BLM on November 16, 2020, 12:17:11 PM
They'll have the ability to span out the first and second round to places like Bloomington and then once it's down to the S16 you just bus all those teams into Indianapolis.
You may not have to go to Bloomington. There are two D1 schools in Indianapolis (Butler, IUPUI), a D2 school (Indianapolis) and NAIA (Marian). Plus you have the dome and an NBA arena as well. And unlike normal tournament sites, you can run games all four days Thursday through Sunday.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 16, 2020, 12:35:06 PM
You may not have to go to Bloomington. There are two D1 schools in Indianapolis (Butler, IUPUI), a D2 school (Indianapolis) and NAIA (Marian). Plus you have the dome and an NBA arena as well. And unlike normal tournament sites, you can run games all four days Thursday through Sunday.
Ya.
Lucas oil, banker's life, butler, IUPUI, Marian, U Indy. Bloomington, Lafayette.
Some high schools have gyms that can seat 5000+ nearby, but obviously would be difficult to set-up with TV.
Plenty of hotels that could host teams/staff/parents.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 16, 2020, 12:35:06 PM
You may not have to go to Bloomington. There are two D1 schools in Indianapolis (Butler, IUPUI), a D2 school (Indianapolis) and NAIA (Marian). Plus you have the dome and an NBA arena as well. And unlike normal tournament sites, you can run games all four days Thursday through Sunday.
Yeah you might not need to, but the option is there. If you wanted to still do Thursday/Saturday and Friday/Sunday sites and use the days between games to "clean/disinfect" you could use more venues. But either way, Indi you'll have a couple different options as to how to run it and there are plenty of sites in the immediate area and then also "close enough" to make it work pretty easily.
Quote from: jesmu84 on November 16, 2020, 12:38:40 PM
Ya.
Lucas oil, banker's life, butler, IUPUI, Marian, U Indy. Bloomington, Lafayette.
Some high schools have gyms that can seat 5000+ nearby, but obviously would be difficult to set-up with TV.
Plenty of hotels that could host teams/staff/parents.
High school courts are too small.
All I know was I was in Indy on a business trip the first week of March 2020. All COVID hell broke lose the following week. There was very little hotel rooms available in the downtown area and it was because of the Big 10 women's tournament. I ended up staying in a southern suburb (that was pretty full) near the customer I was going to see.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on November 16, 2020, 01:40:14 PM
All I know was I was in Indy on a business trip the first week of March 2020. All COVID hell broke lose the following week. There was very little hotel rooms available in the downtown area and it was because of the Big 10 women's tournament. I ended up staying in a southern suburb (that was pretty full) near the customer I was going to see.
If its about hotel rooms, why not Vegas? I think Vegas has about 5 times as many rooms as Indy. I think Indy has around 30,000. Is that enough for 68 teams+NCAA staff, etc for that first round?
Quote from: lawdog77 on November 16, 2020, 02:37:34 PM
If its about hotel rooms, why not Vegas? I think Vegas has about 5 times as many rooms as Indy. I think Indy has around 30,000. Is that enough for 68 teams+NCAA staff, etc for that first round?
Will there be fans allowed in the arenas? That will determine the number of attendees.
Quote from: lawdog77 on November 16, 2020, 02:37:34 PM
If its about hotel rooms, why not Vegas? I think Vegas has about 5 times as many rooms as Indy. I think Indy has around 30,000. Is that enough for 68 teams+NCAA staff, etc for that first round?
I don't think there would be an issue with accommodations for teams and tournament officials. It would be a different story if they were planning to allow fans to attend, but I kinda doubt that's going to happen. If they do allow fans, I'd bet it would start at the Sweet Sixteen or Final Four.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 16, 2020, 03:54:45 PM
I don't think there would be an issue with accommodations for teams and tournament officials. It would be a different story if they were planning to allow fans to attend, but I kinda doubt that's going to happen. If they do allow fans, I'd bet it would start at the Sweet Sixteen or Final Four.
It's the MLB vs NBA problem. The NBA did an excellent job with their bubble, a controllable in/out procedure. The MLB stayed at public hotels in cities where other people were staying, using public elevators & lobbies. Way harder to control.
NCAA should do this at Disney who has already proved that they can nail this type of event.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on November 16, 2020, 04:17:22 PM
It's the MLB vs NBA problem. The NBA did an excellent job with their bubble, a controllable in/out procedure. The MLB stayed at public hotels in cities where other people were staying, using public elevators & lobbies. Way harder to control.
NCAA should do this at Disney who has already proved that they can nail this type of event.
Agree on the MLB vs NBA analogy. And Disney could be a good option as well. Still, the NCAA has a ton of clout in Indy, and I suspect they could book all the rooms, dining facilities and conference facilities at several major hotels to create something very similar to the Disney bubble.
In either place, a single-location, consolidated format should put them way ahead of the MLB model.
I don't think you need a perfect, NBA like bubble to pull this off.
I like the idea of a bubble.
And Indy is a great place for it. They have hosted numerous Final Fours, Super Bowls and other big sporting events. The city would do a great job.
Thankfully Market Square Arena has been demolished. Lots of bad MU memories at that venue.
Quote from: Trump Loves The Big East on November 16, 2020, 07:31:50 PM
Thankfully Market Square Arena has been demolished. Lots of bad MU memories at that venue.
Only one. In March 1978. Nothing ever so bad except maybe Murray State two years ago.
Quote from: dgies9156 on November 16, 2020, 08:47:36 PM
Only one. In March 1978. Nothing ever so bad except maybe Murray State two years ago.
Murray State two years ago was pretty f-ing bad. No "maybe" needed.
Quote from: dgies9156 on November 16, 2020, 08:47:36 PM
Only one. In March 1978. Nothing ever so bad except maybe Murray State two years ago.
Murray State was awful, but nothing compares to what happened in 1978. We were the #2 team in the country and should never have been in a position to lose in the first round.
Quote from: dgies9156 on November 16, 2020, 08:47:36 PM
Only one. In March 1978. Nothing ever so bad except maybe Murray State two years ago.
dgies9156:
I was sitting in the stands at Market Square that day in 1978 stunned at what happened. Our team that year could have put another banner on the wall.
Quote from: Trump Loves The Big East on November 17, 2020, 07:10:43 AM
dgies9156:
I was sitting in the stands at Market Square that day in 1978 stunned at what happened. Our team that year could have put another banner on the wall.
Crapshoot
Has it really been 43 years?!?
Quote from: Skatastrophy on November 16, 2020, 04:17:22 PM
It's the MLB vs NBA problem. The NBA did an excellent job with their bubble, a controllable in/out procedure. The MLB stayed at public hotels in cities where other people were staying, using public elevators & lobbies. Way harder to control.
NCAA should do this at Disney who has already proved that they can nail this type of event.
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I do not think the NCAA is going to quarantine the teams 14 days before the tournament starts.
Quote from: bilsu on November 17, 2020, 09:47:52 AM
I do not think the NCAA is going to quarantine the teams 14 days before the tournament starts.
If you aren't controlling the inputs, then it isn't a bubble.
Edit: I just looked it up, and the NCAA isn't calling it a bubble. They're calling it coordinated dates. I call that a superspreader event.
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2020-11-16/ncaa-relocating-2021-division-i-mens-basketball-championship-sites?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiossports&stream=top
Solid read...
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/march-madness-2021-ncaa-tournament-questions-explained/1fyooomz6ox4l16qt1mpfus4ra
Quote from: Skatastrophy on November 17, 2020, 10:08:56 AM
If you aren't controlling the inputs, then it isn't a bubble.
Edit: I just looked it up, and the NCAA isn't calling it a bubble. They're calling it coordinated dates. I call that a superspreader event.
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2020-11-16/ncaa-relocating-2021-division-i-mens-basketball-championship-sites?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiossports&stream=top
Eh, it depends. If you require teams to do quick tests before arriving, and every day or so while they are there, and stay in the hotel, you can make this work.
A couple of issues:
First -- I'm sure there's a lot of arenas in Indianapolis and Indiana that can handle this. Both IU and Purdue are close and, as others have noted, there are several nice arenas in the city itself. That should not be a problem.
Second -- Part of the charm of the NCAA is the ability to travel to other cities and to come together with fans of multiple teams. If you've never done an NCAA road trip, you've missed out. Not sure that would be possible if it was held in one city (unless the city was NYC or LA).
Third -- Still holding out some hope, perhaps unreasonably, that we will have a vaccine administered to millions by March. If that happens and the contagin is down, then this is both boring and really kind of yucky. For those of you who have never been to Indianapolis, it isn't Miami Beach!
Four -- As outlined elsewhere, the worst moment in MU basketball history happened in Indianapolis. We don't need another!
Quote from: dgies9156 on November 17, 2020, 11:16:55 AM
Third -- Still holding out some hope, perhaps unreasonably, that we will have a vaccine administered to millions by March. If that happens and the contagin is down, then this is both boring and really kind of yucky. For those of you who have never been to Indianapolis, it isn't Miami Beach!
Sun King's a decent enough brewery and 9 Irish Brothers is a fun Irish pub. That's about it that stands out for the three times I've been to Indy. Could be worse than Indy though, nowhere's coming to mind that'd have the capacity but I'm sure it could be worse.
I've never been to Indianapolis for an NCAA Tournament round, Big Ten title football game, or Super Bowl, but everything I've heard from people who have been to those events say the city is a great host.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 17, 2020, 11:31:12 AM
Sun King's a decent enough brewery and 9 Irish Brothers is a fun Irish pub. That's about it that stands out for the three times I've been to Indy. Could be worse than Indy though, nowhere's coming to mind that'd have the capacity but I'm sure it could be worse.
If Marquette makes a deep run, they could hold the tourney in Akron for all I care.
Quote from: BLM on November 17, 2020, 11:35:16 AM
I've never been to Indianapolis for an NCAA Tournament round, Big Ten title football game, or Super Bowl, but everything I've heard from people who have been to those events say the city is a great host.
I've been there for a large convention. It's nice. In a midwesterny, chain restauranty kind of way.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 17, 2020, 12:00:24 PM
I've been there for a large convention. It's nice. In a midwesterny, chain restauranty kind of way.
Very basic, indeed.
Quote from: warriorchick on November 17, 2020, 11:56:30 AM
If Marquette makes a deep run, they could hold the tourney in Akron for all I care.
Yep. Or even (gasp) Dayton....
Quote from: Trump Loves The Big East on November 17, 2020, 07:10:43 AM
dgies9156:
I was sitting in the stands at Market Square that day in 1978 stunned at what happened. Our team that year could have put another banner on the wall.
Brother Trump:
I was in Dubuque, Iowa that day escorting my girlfriend to her friend's wedding. When first news of that came over, I was stunned and thought the Cedar Rapids station got it wrong.
43 years later, we knew how right they were.
Oh, and the girlfriend has been Ms. dgies for the past 40 years.
Quote from: dgies9156 on November 18, 2020, 06:22:09 AM
Brother Trump:
I was in Dubuque, Iowa that day escorting my girlfriend to her friend's wedding. When first news of that came over, I was stunned and thought the Cedar Rapids station got it wrong.
43 years later, we knew how right they were.
Oh, and the girlfriend has been Ms. dgies for the past 40 years.
Marquette Lost but You Won Big Time :)
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on November 17, 2020, 10:18:04 AM
Eh, it depends. If you require teams to do quick tests before arriving, and every day or so while they are there, and stay in the hotel, you can make this work.
Vaccines may be readily available by mid March making all this moot.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 18, 2020, 09:18:06 AM
Vaccines may be readily available by mid March making all this moot.
For Frontline workers and high risk.
So, no basketball players or fans.
Quote from: jesmu84 on November 18, 2020, 09:55:25 AM
For Frontline workers and high risk.
So, no basketball players or fans.
Yeah, the expert consensus seems to be late March to April for widespread access. I doubt the NCAA wants to place its bets on that timing and would just as soon have a plan locked in by the end of the year.
I believe both vaccines require two doses, right? How far apart do they need to be taken, and how soon after the second does are you then "immune" to the virus?
Quote from: BLM on November 18, 2020, 12:51:51 PM
I believe both vaccines require two doses, right? How far apart do they need to be taken, and how soon after the second does are you then "immune" to the virus?
Pfizer's booster shot will be given three weeks after the first one; Moderna's is spaced four weeks later. Not sure where immunity kicks in. Ideally sometime between the first and second shots.
Quote from: BLM on November 18, 2020, 12:51:51 PM
I believe both vaccines require two doses, right? How far apart do they need to be taken, and how soon after the second does are you then "immune" to the virus?
Stupid question. When they say they will have 20 million available by xyz date.
Does that mean 2 doses x 10mil = 20mil, so really only enough for 10 mil people?
Or 20mil x 2 = 40mil enough for 20 mil people?
2 doses x 10 mil
Quote from: Pakuni on November 18, 2020, 12:25:44 PM
Yeah, the expert consensus seems to be late March to April for widespread access. I doubt the NCAA wants to place its bets on that timing and would just as soon have a plan locked in by the end of the year.
Yep. And that 'expert consensus' has consistently looked at best-case scenarios. Any hiccups along the manufacturing and distribution chains - and there will almost certainly be hiccups - and we will be looking at May or June.
One possible place for hiccups - distribution. States don't currently have funds allocated to distribute the vaccine and have asked for federal money to do so. Those requests have, for now at least, gone the way of a second stimulus package.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/14/health/covid-vaccine-distribution-plans.html?name=styln-coronavirus-vaccines®ion=TOP_BANNER&block=storyline_menu_recirc&action=click&pgtype=Interactive&impression_id=c75513a1-29f5-11eb-b768-4564232d23c7&variant=1_Show
My money says the average Joe will have ready access by around June 1, and that 'most' people will be vaccinated by mid-summer.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 18, 2020, 05:40:54 PM
Yep. And that 'expert consensus' has consistently looked at best-case scenarios. Any hiccups along the manufacturing and distribution chains - and there will almost certainly be hiccups - and we will be looking at May or June.
One possible place for hiccups - distribution. States don't currently have funds allocated to distribute the vaccine and have asked for federal money to do so. Those requests have, for now at least, gone the way of a second stimulus package.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/14/health/covid-vaccine-distribution-plans.html?name=styln-coronavirus-vaccines®ion=TOP_BANNER&block=storyline_menu_recirc&action=click&pgtype=Interactive&impression_id=c75513a1-29f5-11eb-b768-4564232d23c7&variant=1_Show
My money says the average Joe will have ready access by around June 1, and that 'most' people will be vaccinated by mid-summer.
It seem the money has already been allocated for distribution of the vaccines through operation Warp Speed.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/operation-warp-speed-covid-19-vaccine-delivery-fda-60-minutes-2020-11-08/
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 18, 2020, 06:02:07 PM
It seem the money has already been allocated for distribution of the vaccines through operation Warp Speed.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/operation-warp-speed-covid-19-vaccine-delivery-fda-60-minutes-2020-11-08/
Yes, but it is dramatically less than what is actually needed. The NC Secretary of HHS described the WARP speed allocation as a 'down payment.' From the NYTimes article:
Congress has allocated $10 billion to Operation Warp Speed, the federal effort subsidizing vaccine companies' clinical trials and manufacturing costs. Dr. Mandy K. Cohen, the secretary of health and human services in North Carolina, said her state had received just $6 million for distributing and promoting the shot. She expects $3 million more by the end of the year and called the money "a down payment" for what is likely to be $30 million worth of work over the first year of vaccine distribution.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 18, 2020, 07:41:24 PM
Yes, but it is dramatically less than what is actually needed. The NC Secretary of HHS described the WARP speed allocation as a 'down payment.' From the NYTimes article:
Congress has allocated $10 billion to Operation Warp Speed, the federal effort subsidizing vaccine companies' clinical trials and manufacturing costs. Dr. Mandy K. Cohen, the secretary of health and human services in North Carolina, said her state had received just $6 million for distributing and promoting the shot. She expects $3 million more by the end of the year and called the money "a down payment" for what is likely to be $30 million worth of work over the first year of vaccine distribution.
One advantage of the vaccine is it reduces the vector of the spread. By how much nobody knows, but every little bit helps
Quote from: Trump Loves The Big East on November 18, 2020, 07:48:29 PM
One advantage of the vaccine is it reduces the vector of the spread. By how much nobody knows, but every little bit helps
I am not disputing the benefits of the vaccine. I was talking specifically about the cost of distribution.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on November 18, 2020, 07:55:02 PM
I am not disputing the benefits of the vaccine. I was talking specifically about the cost of distribution.
I was just pointing out the additional benefits received from the investment. so no matter how much is spent there is a synergistic benefit from getting it out there.