MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: GooooMarquette on July 20, 2020, 08:18:25 PM
-
Today is the 44th anniversary of #44 hitting his 755th home run. In my opinion, Hank is still the real home run king.
https://sabr.org/gamesproj/game/july-20-1976-hank-aaron-hits-his-755th-and-final-career-home-run/
-
Probably the most underrated ballplayer ever. Never fully appreciated for the completeness of his game,
-
My hero as a kid.
-
I wasn’t at that game, but I did attend Hank’s last game ever in October ‘76. I remember he got an RBI single in his last at bat, so Grammas put Jim Gantner in to pinch run.
-
Hank once said..."I looked for the same pitch my whole career, a breaking ball. All of the time. I never worried about the fastball. They couldn't throw it past me, none of them. "
How?
Quickest wrists I ever saw, in person. Most legends have a best ever attribute. Watching Aaron at bats one could notice a very special ability to sit back on a pitch and with lightning quick wrists, he suddenly could whip the bat around to level contact. Next closest to this skill I ever saw, in person....Barry Bonds
Unlike Killebrew or Mantle who hit lofty shots looking like a homer already off the bat...Aarons homers were often line drives with power that reached the fence because of the perfect contact.
Heck even Hank admitted he didnt think about them much until Eddie Matthews, the original Braves slugger, began to tail off.
To Wit , Hank said..."I never thought home runs were all that exciting. I still think the triple is the most exciting thing in baseball. To me, a triple is like a guy taking the ball on his 1-yard line and running 99 yards for a touchdown...."
-
I read his autobiography "I had a Hammer" when I was in my teens. I remember it being just incredibly eye opening to hear his story. I'll have to see if I still have it on the shelf.
-
He spoke a few years at graduation. He told the story of how as a brand new player, he would walk through campus from his Downtown hotel on his way to and from practice in County Stadium.
A MLB player walking 4 miles each way to ball practice. Can you imagine that these days?
-
Hank once said..."I looked for the same pitch my whole career, a breaking ball. All of the time. I never worried about the fastball. They couldn't throw it past me, none of them. "
How?
Quickest wrists I ever saw, in person. Most legends have a best ever attribute. Watching Aaron at bats one could notice a very special ability to sit back on a pitch and with lightning quick wrists, he suddenly could whip the bat around to level contact. Next closest to this skill I ever saw, in person....Barry Bonds
Unlike Killebrew or Mantle who hit lofty shots looking like a homer already off the bat...Aarons homers were often line drives with power that reached the fence because of the perfect contact.
Heck even Hank admitted he didnt think about them much until Eddie Matthews, the original Braves slugger, began to tail off.
To Wit , Hank said..."I never thought home runs were all that exciting. I still think the triple is the most exciting thing in baseball. To me, a triple is like a guy taking the ball on his 1-yard line and running 99 yards for a touchdown...."
Saw him a lot as a kid. He and Ernie Banks were all wrists for their power.
A lot of his home runs just looked like line drives to the outfield and then just kept rising.
-
Probably the most underrated ballplayer ever. Never fully appreciated for the completeness of his game,
Stan Musial is the most underrated player ever in my opinion, and I'm a Cubs fan.
-
See Stan's stats below.
Bold means he led NL. Italic means he led all of MLB.
-
See Stan's stats below.
Bold means he led NL. Italic means he led all of MLB.
Those three consecutive runner-up finishes in the NL MVP race are something. In 1949, he lost to Jackie Robinson.
In 1950, he lost to a pitcher named Jim Konstanty, who I have never heard of before and after looking at his stats, can't figure out how he managed to win the MVP that year. He pitched in 74 games as reliever and lead the NL in saves, but outside of that???
In 1951 he lost to Roy Campanella
-
Those three consecutive runner-up finishes in the NL MVP race are something. In 1949, he lost to Jackie Robinson.
In 1950, he lost to a pitcher named Jim Konstanty, who I have never heard of before and after looking at his stats, can't figure out how he managed to win the MVP that year. He pitched in 74 games as reliever and lead the NL in saves, but outside of that???
In 1951 he lost to Roy Campanella
Remember, relievers then pitched a lot of innings - no one batter specialist or one inning limits back then. The guy had 16 wins in addition to 22 saves and finished 64 of the 72 games in which he appeared and pitched 152 innings that season. Compare that to Eric Gagne, the last reliever to win the Cy Young, who only pitched 82.1 innings that season (interestingly enough, he pitched 82.1 innings for three straight seasons) and had a record of 2-3. The last closer to win MVP was Dennis Eckersley in 1992, only pitched 80 innings in 69 appearances that season.
-
Quickest wrists I ever saw, in person. Most legends have a best ever attribute. Watching Aaron at bats one could notice a very special ability to sit back on a pitch and with lightning quick wrists, he suddenly could whip the bat around to level contact. Next closest to this skill I ever saw, in person....Barry Bonds
Which is kind of the tragedy of Bonds steroid fiasco, he was a HOF player before he ever touched the juice. He had a career WAR through his first 10 seasons, pre roids, that would have been top 50 all time. Cause he was an absolute savant at hitting a baseball, much like Hank Aaron
-
Remember, relievers then pitched a lot of innings - no one batter specialist or one inning limits back then. The guy had 16 wins in addition to 22 saves and finished 64 of the 72 games in which he appeared and pitched 152 innings that season. Compare that to Eric Gagne, the last reliever to win the Cy Young, who only pitched 82.1 innings that season (interestingly enough, he pitched 82.1 innings for three straight seasons) and had a record of 2-3. The last closer to win MVP was Dennis Eckersley in 1992, only pitched 80 innings in 69 appearances that season.
I get that. And it looks like he would have lead the league in ERA had he pitched enough innings to qualify. But it just seems like an odd choice.
But then I read this...
https://tht.fangraphs.com/tht-live/did-jim-konstanty-deserve-the-1950-mvp/
-
I wouldn't say either one of those guys is underrated. Isn't Aaron widely considered one of the top 3 or 4 guys ever to play the game, along with Mays, Williams and Ruth?
And Musial is revered, and talked about being close to the same category as Williams in terms of pure hitting ability.
I think any baseball fan with any sense of history would easily have Hank in the top 5 ever, and Musial in the top 10-15. And I don't think you'd get any grief if you had him in the 5-10 range either.
Love this quote about Stan.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." -- Carl Erksine
-
I wouldn't say either one of those guys is underrated. Isn't Aaron widely considered one of the top 3 or 4 guys ever to play the game, along with Mays, Williams and Ruth?
And Musial is revered, and talked about being close to the same category as Williams in terms of pure hitting ability.
I think any baseball fan with any sense of history would easily have Hank in the top 5 ever, and Musial in the top 10-15. And I don't think you'd get any grief if you had him in the 5-10 range either.
Love this quote about Stan.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." -- Carl Erksine
Yeah, I think the 10-12 range is about right. No issue as well if he is put in the top 5-10.
Ruth and Bonds are top two. Williams may be the greatest hitter ever, but was a brutal defender and didn’t run well. I’d probably put Mays #3.
Best player I ever saw in person? Mantle. No contest. Then Bonds, Mays, Williams, Aaron, and Trout.
Then there are some old-timers -Cobb, Wagner, and a couple pitchers.
-
Which is kind of the tragedy of Bonds steroid fiasco, he was a HOF player before he ever touched the juice. He had a career WAR through his first 10 seasons, pre roids, that would have been top 50 all time. Cause he was an absolute savant at hitting a baseball, much like Hank Aaron
Bonds' problem is he was a bad dude and was beyond envious of McGwire and Sosa and knew both were on the juice. No way Bonds hits 700+ clean but he makes it to 600.
Has anyone ever heard or read a sportswriter say anything good about him as a person?
-
I wouldn't say either one of those guys is underrated. Isn't Aaron widely considered one of the top 3 or 4 guys ever to play the game, along with Mays, Williams and Ruth?
And Musial is revered, and talked about being close to the same category as Williams in terms of pure hitting ability.
I think any baseball fan with any sense of history would easily have Hank in the top 5 ever, and Musial in the top 10-15. And I don't think you'd get any grief if you had him in the 5-10 range either.
Love this quote about Stan.
"I've had pretty good success with Stan by throwing him my best pitch and backing up third." -- Carl Erksine
I just googled "best baseball players of all time," and got a bunch of lists and they all have Aaron, Musial and Bonds in the top 10. Can't call any of them underrated.
One guy I consider underrated is Robin Yount. I don't recall seeing him in a single top 50 and only in the 80s on a couple of top 100 lists. He has two MVPs (at different positions), is 20th all time in hits (3,142), 30th in WAR (83.1), 40th in total bases and within the top 50 in a few other offensive and defensive categories. Yet not a single ranking I saw had him above 80.
I'm gonna guess he'd be a lock for top 50 if he played in NY, LA or had a few WS titles because he was surrounded by superstars his whole career. But a 20-year HOF career in Milwaukee just gets you...underrated.
-
Stan Musial is the most underrated player ever in my opinion, and I'm a Cubs fan.
Stan the Man has always been considered one of the greatest players ever, spoken of in the same category as Ruth, Cobb, Mays, Mantle, Aaron, Williams, DiMaggio etc. In his day he was considered the best player in the NL and Williams the Best in the AL.
The sustained excellent he exhibited has rarely been seen in baseball.
-
Stan the Man has always been considered one of the greatest players ever, spoken of in the same category as Ruth, Cobb, Mays, Mantle, Aaron, Williams, DiMaggio etc. In his day he was considered the best player in the NL and Williams the Best in the AL.
The sustained excellent he exhibited has rarely been seen in baseball.
I feel like an average baseball fan can name everyone you listed above but not Musial.
-
I feel like an average baseball fan can name everyone you listed above but not Musial.
I think I know the issue here...
Stan Musial is the most underrated player ever in my opinion, and I'm a Cubs fan.
Boy, way too late in the year for my first gratuitous shot at Cub fans.
-
Stan Musial is the most underrated player ever in my opinion, and I'm a Cubs fan.
He also was of the most decent and honorable men ever to play baseball. He was the dictionary definition of consistency. Never hotdogged; never played himself up but rather focused on his team.
I wished he had stuck around another year so he could have been part of the 1964 World Championship but, to his credit, he knew when it was time. After he retired, he stayed in St. Louis and was an institution there for the rest of his life.
Mr. Musial was one of my favorite ballplayers ever (even though I was barely in second grade when he retired). He was The Man for a reason.
-
He also was of the most decent and honorable men ever to play baseball. He was the dictionary definition of consistency. Never hotdogged; never played himself up but rather focused on his team.
There is nothing noble about this.
-
I wouldn't say either one of those guys is underrated. Isn't Aaron widely considered one of the top 3 or 4 guys ever to play the game, along with Mays, Williams and Ruth?
Aaron was underrated as a complete ballplayer. People see him as a home run hitter. He was an excellent defensive outfielder, great arm and good team player. And a decent human being as well.
Best line about Hank Aaron was at a father-son game in St. Louis when Mr. Aaron saw the son of I believe Curt Simmons, a pitcher for the Cardinals. Mr. Aaron had hit poorly against Mr. Simmons, so when he saw Mr. Simmons' son, he looked at him and said, "tell your Daddy to throw the ball like everyone else does!"
-
There is nothing noble about this.
Actually showing grace and class is always quite noble.