OK, I have been thinking a lot about next year in light of what's happened in the past few days. I'm actually kinda bullish on next year if everything goes well on the recruiting trail. It's based on the following:
1) Wojo isn't going anywhere. The heat under his seat will be turned way, way up next year, but there is no way the Board of Trustees will ax Wojo now. Not with what's coming in.
2) The key to next year may well be whether we are successful with the recruitment of Karim Mane. If we are successful, we'll have a freshman floor leader in Mane who is a slashing NBA capable guard. With him, we're a Top 3 class and loaded. We'll be set at every position on the floor and have some depth for the first time in a long time. You never know until he steps on the floor but the prognosis is he could be a game changer.
3) Unless we're recruiting someone I don't know about, we're not going to have a CarRowMark sharpshooting guard next year. That means Coach Wojo's current offense of "Let Markus do it" won't work. We're going to have to distribute and get 40 minutes of playing time from all five positions. Period. Incidentally, who in this crowd didn't see Markus handling the ball when crunch time came late yesterday against St. John's? That won't happen next year if Coach Wojo wants to hold his team together.
4) One of the things that has killed us the last two years is lack of depth. Between Ed Morrow and the Hauser brothers leaving, we were down to nine active players (bench players of Jayce, Greg, Symir and Jamal). We're allowed 12 and the last three opening hurt us down the stretch.
I'm as frustrated about this year as anyone here. I think we're a better team than we're showing and the fact that we're not getting it each game falls on coaching. But I'm not a Nojo mostly because I see what's coming and think it's good enough to stick with the current administration a year or two more. I gotta believe Coach Wojo is the most frustrated person of any of us and I'm confident that, absent recruiting another CarRowMark shooter, he's got to change how we do things.
I too, as frustrated as I have been, think that in the end, Wojo will be here next season but the heat will be intense from the fan base. He doesn't have much good will left and he will have burned through all of his remaining good will if they get torn up against Seton Hall on Thursday night, get into the tourney and get torn up again. He'll need to start establishing right from the start as the scrutiny will high on his every move.
One thing to note though is you stated that his 1 man show offense won't work without a sharpshooter. This would be a major deviation for Wojo as he's always seemingly had one guy who could hit from anywhere and that person thus always got the shots down the stretch. My main question is can he adjust his offense? I am interested to see how that plays out. Given the heat that he will be starting with next year, if he goes with the same plan of attack next year and it struggles, it's going to get very ugly, very quickly for him.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 08, 2020, 12:42:17 PM
OK, I have been thinking a lot about next year in light of what's happened in the past few days. I'm actually kinda bullish on next year if everything goes well on the recruiting trail. It's based on the following:
1) Wojo isn't going anywhere. The heat under his seat will be turned way, way up next year, but there is no way the Board of Trustees will ax Wojo now. Not with what's coming in.
2) The key to next year may well be whether we are successful with the recruitment of Karim Mane. If we are successful, we'll have a freshman floor leader in Mane who is a slashing NBA capable guard. With him, we're a Top 3 class and loaded. We'll be set at every position on the floor and have some depth for the first time in a long time. You never know until he steps on the floor but the prognosis is he could be a game changer.
3) Unless we're recruiting someone I don't know about, we're not going to have a CarRowMark sharpshooting guard next year. That means Coach Wojo's current offense of "Let Markus do it" won't work. We're going to have to distribute and get 40 minutes of playing time from all five positions. Period. Incidentally, who in this crowd didn't see Markus handling the ball when crunch time came late yesterday against St. John's? That won't happen next year if Coach Wojo wants to hold his team together.
4) One of the things that has killed us the last two years is lack of depth. Between Ed Morrow and the Hauser brothers leaving, we were down to nine active players (bench players of Jayce, Greg, Symir and Jamal). We're allowed 12 and the last three opening hurt us down the stretch.
I'm as frustrated about this year as anyone here. I think we're a better team than we're showing and the fact that we're not getting it each game falls on coaching. But I'm not a Nojo mostly because I see what's coming and think it's good enough to stick with the current administration a year or two more. I gotta believe Coach Wojo is the most frustrated person of any of us and I'm confident that, absent recruiting another CarRowMark shooter, he's got to change how we do things.
There is nothing about Wojos coaching acumen that would lead to the results you are hoping for. Why do you think Wojo would land Mane, given the way the team has crashed down the stretch? Dont you think that others that are trying to land Mane will use MUs crash against his going there. Wojo is clueless and the way he has managed the teams he has had demonstrates it.
We are better off with Wojo here next year. Hire another assistant and wait four years for any results or will Wojo be better in 4 years more and we are better off. The key is will Wojo be happy here with all the negativity about him. That is tough to take because all these coaches have big egos. I hope he can be happy. Then we might have something next year, maybe.
Whether or not we are "better off" is up for debate. There is little chance Wojo is gone, so I am going to be optimistic-- even though 6 years of experience has given me little reason to believe we are going to see significant improvement in coaching ability or program management.
Quote from: Daniel on March 08, 2020, 01:49:03 PM
We are better off with Wojo here next year. Hire another assistant and wait four years for any results or will Wojo be better in 4 years more and we are better off. The key is will Wojo be happy here with all the negativity about him. That is tough to take because all these coaches have big egos. I hope he can be happy. Then we might have something next year, maybe.
Where does this idea that it takes four years for results come from? If you hire the right guy you'd see evidence of it within the first two seasons. Right now there's overwhelming evidence we have the absolute wrong guy.
Quote from: Daniel on March 08, 2020, 01:49:03 PM
We are better off with Wojo here next year. Hire another assistant and wait four years for any results or will Wojo be better in 4 years more and we are better off. The key is will Wojo be happy here with all the negativity about him. That is tough to take because all these coaches have big egos. I hope he can be happy. Then we might have something next year, maybe.
Yeah thats it. Blame the negativity on the fans as the reason for Wojo leaving. What about his performance? Is he still training on the job after all this time. Where is the real accountability for the negativity?
Look, we all know we're at a crossroads. We knew going into this year we were a step back from last year due to the loss of the Hausers. Very simply Brendan didn't step up and Sacar, who I admire for the growth he has shown as a Warrior, disappeared at times in critical games.
We did not have a second major scoring option the way we did when the Big Hauser was here. Koby, as good as he might be, didn't show it this year.
But guys, do you really want to burn the place down now? I'm not an arsonist and I'm not convinced anyone can save the recruiting class we have and anyone can come to Marquette on the short-term and do better than Wojo. Yeah, this losing is getting old but I believe the guy has laid a good foundation with Lewis, Oso and Dawson and if we get Mane, my gosh, we will really have something.
You burn the house down when the foundation has collapsed and the building inspector condemns it. The foundation is recruiting and we have it. Let's see how this plays out.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 08, 2020, 03:59:01 PM
Look, we all know we're at a crossroads. We knew going into this year we were a step back from last year due to the loss of the Hausers. Very simply Brendan didn't step up and Sacar, who I admire for the growth he has shown as a Warrior, disappeared at times in critical games.
We did not have a second major scoring option the way we did when the Big Hauser was here. Koby, as good as he might be, didn't show it this year.
But guys, do you really want to burn the place down now? I'm not an arsonist and I'm not convinced anyone can save the recruiting class we have and anyone can come to Marquette on the short-term and do better than Wojo. Yeah, this losing is getting old but I believe the guy has laid a good foundation with Lewis, Oso and Dawson and if we get Mane, my gosh, we will really have something.
You burn the house down when the foundation has collapsed and the building inspector condemns it. The foundation is recruiting and we have it. Let's see how this plays out.
The foundation is coaching. That's where you're wrong. Good coaches can win with average recruits. Kind of like UW Badgers do every year.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 08, 2020, 03:59:01 PM
Look, we all know we're at a crossroads. We knew going into this year we were a step back from last year due to the loss of the Hausers. Very simply Brendan didn't step up and Sacar, who I admire for the growth he has shown as a Warrior, disappeared at times in critical games.
We did not have a second major scoring option the way we did when the Big Hauser was here. Koby, as good as he might be, didn't show it this year.
But guys, do you really want to burn the place down now? I'm not an arsonist and I'm not convinced anyone can save the recruiting class we have and anyone can come to Marquette on the short-term and do better than Wojo. Yeah, this losing is getting old but I believe the guy has laid a good foundation with Lewis, Oso and Dawson and if we get Mane, my gosh, we will really have something.
You burn the house down when the foundation has collapsed and the building inspector condemns it. The foundation is recruiting and we have it. Let's see how this plays out.
You are a man of sound body and mind. Scholl won a National AD of the year award a few days ago and expect similar rational thinking from him.
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 08, 2020, 03:26:12 PM
Where does this idea that it takes four years for results come from? If you hire the right guy you'd see evidence of it within the first two seasons. Right now there's overwhelming evidence we have the absolute wrong guy.
And this concern that he's Majerus and we can't let him get away. Sometimes it's not a fit.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 08, 2020, 03:59:01 PM
Look, we all know we're at a crossroads. We knew going into this year we were a step back from last year due to the loss of the Hausers. Very simply Brendan didn't step up and Sacar, who I admire for the growth he has shown as a Warrior, disappeared at times in critical games.
We did not have a second major scoring option the way we did when the Big Hauser was here. Koby, as good as he might be, didn't show it this year.
But guys, do you really want to burn the place down now? I'm not an arsonist and I'm not convinced anyone can save the recruiting class we have and anyone can come to Marquette on the short-term and do better than Wojo. Yeah, this losing is getting old but I believe the guy has laid a good foundation with Lewis, Oso and Dawson and if we get Mane, my gosh, we will really have something.
You burn the house down when the foundation has collapsed and the building inspector condemns it. The foundation is recruiting and we have it. Let's see how this plays out.
Yes, these three 18 year olds and possibly Mane will definitely make Wojo less inept at everything.
Boy do I feel better, thank you.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 08, 2020, 04:07:17 PM
Yes, these three 18 year olds and possibly Mane will definitely make Wojo less inept at everything.
Boy do I feel better, thank you.
Brother Hutch,
I'll leave it at this: If Coach Wojo recruits another CarRowMark gunner for next year -- I don't care where he comes from -- then I'll agree with you and everyone else in here. But if we go with what we have and Mane, then, OK, I'm of the wait and see mode.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 08, 2020, 04:14:31 PM
Brother Hutch,
I'll leave it at this: If Coach Wojo recruits another CarRowMark gunner for next year -- I don't care where he comes from -- then I'll agree with you and everyone else in here. But if we go with what we have and Mane, then, OK, I'm of the wait and see mode.
Did Mane commit?
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 08, 2020, 04:16:07 PM
Did Mane commit?
Oh yes, he said he's anxious to join a coach who has this annoying habit of choking away end of seasons. Not to mention, forgetting scores, non development of players, no feel for any in game adjustments, etc.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 08, 2020, 04:01:02 PM
The foundation is coaching. That's where you're wrong. Good coaches can win with average recruits. Kind of like UW Badgers do every year.
Exactly right. The projo pivot to "we don't have good players and it's amazing Wojo has achieved what he has with such mediocrity" is just another in a long line of excuses made for a below average coach.
The guy has squandered away the career of a generational talent scorer in a way only a below average coach could. Cut. Bait.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on March 08, 2020, 04:23:58 PM
Oh yes, he said he's anxious to join a coach who has this annoying habit of choking away end of seasons. Not to mention, forgetting scores, non development of players, no feel for any in game adjustments, etc.
He did? Sweet!
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 08, 2020, 04:14:31 PM
Brother Hutch,
I'll leave it at this: If Coach Wojo recruits another CarRowMark gunner for next year -- I don't care where he comes from -- then I'll agree with you and everyone else in here. But if we go with what we have and Mane, then, OK, I'm of the wait and see mode.
What if that happens and Mane is that gunner?
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 08, 2020, 04:50:18 PM
What if that happens and Mane is that gunner?
I think the plan is for Garcia to get the "all of it, all the time" treatment from Wojo, similar to what Henry had. Garcia has even said, in so many words, that the main reason he committed to Marquette is because they want him to step in and be "the guy" from day one. I can't imagine he'd be too thrilled if we landed Mane.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on March 08, 2020, 04:53:06 PM
I think the plan is for Garcia to get the "all of it, all the time" treatment from Wojo, similar to what Henry had. Garcia has even said, in so many words, that the main reason he committed to Marquette is because they want him to step in and be "the guy" from day one. I can't imagine he'd be too thrilled if we landed Mane.
Since you're willing to take him at his word (and then interpret it as you'd like to), Garcia has also said he was going to try to recruit Mane to MU. So maybe he would be thrilled if we landed Mane?
I have learned my lesson about getting too excited about incoming recruits and/or transfers. In the last few years, we would hear reports about how Morrow and McEwen were the best players in practice. Fooled me. Dawson, Oso, Lewis (and hopefully Mane) could be stupendous, but I'm just going to wait and see.
a couple of advantages to still getting karim-
we are canada south, kinda
i doubt symir will improve enough to steal much playing time from him. that said, karim would be part of the show and hopefully spotlight a much improved, balanced attack. symir will get his minutes, but IF we still get karim, he would be the man to dish to dawson
i don't know why i do this to myself. i came in to this year a little geeked up only to start looking for my glue and cutting myself again
Assuming the status quo - no coaching changes or transfers in/out, it's difficult to be enthusiastic about the returnees. We've had plenty of time to see GE, JC, KM, BB, TJ on the floor. I don't see much upside to any of their games. Symir appears to have upside. Add in 4 freshman (one a redshirt freshman) who will be just that - freshman, and it could be a long season.
Where do the 40 points from Howard and Anim come from? Defense is likely an issue. I think we need two starters for next season who aren't currently on the roster. Mane and a transfer?
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 08, 2020, 03:59:01 PM
Look, we all know we're at a crossroads. We knew going into this year we were a step back from last year due to the loss of the Hausers.
Brother dgies
"We all" knew we were going to take a step back? Some of "we all" perhaps. Other assured us that losing the Hausers was "addition by subtraction", that Koby was "at least a second team All Big East player" and that Brendan Bailey was on his way to becoming a Marquette "all timer". KenPom had us the 17th best team in the country. We're probably ranked in the 30s now (based on the whole season) but for the second year in a row are playing like a team ranked much, much lower at the year's most important time. Different players, but it looks like Wojo has lost the team for the second consecutive year. Lots of red flags.
Who was that guy Al who said, "The best thing about Freshman is they become Sophmores?" Is Wojo that coach who is going to prove Al wrong next year? Suuuuuure ....
This is not intended to blow up the board.
I have been critical of Wojo for a while as many of you know. Given all the hopes based on the incoming class, I have a question. I did a couple quick Google searches but could not find any info on it. Perhaps someone has this info...
The BE announces the Most Improved Player each year. Does the conference announce which players received votes? If it does, how many MU players in Wojo's tenure have received votes?
This goes to player development and I am curious if there is basis to believe next year's class could change the pattern we are in.
Yes. The familiar refrain for MU, next year.
Maybe i'll feel different when re-seating happens later this year but right now I feel like I don't really want to support this terrible coach for another terrible season. Not sure how else I can send a message to BOT that wojo has got to go.
There's some Ewing Theory potential with this team next year. Maybe not having Markus will open up the offense and make us a more balanced team. Maybe Koby and others will step up their game now that they can't lean on MH.
But that's a big maybe.