Was never a huge fan but defended the numbers and recruiting. I am a Marquette fan 1st and foremost so I truly hope we make a run but I do not believe in Wojo. Between the Ellenson year L against Depaul keeping us out of at least the NIT then the Rowsey year L at Depaul keeping us out of the NCAA now this (not to mention Butler and PC game 1) I'm done.
Same. Cut the boat loose and start over.
+1
And before we have the conversation... No, do not install any member of this staff as the next HC.
As a relatively strong backer of Wojo myself, this was finally the game that made me realize we need a change. I really, really wanted him to succeed and I like him and his energy and passion for the university, but he doesn't have what it takes to win here I don't think.
*googles TJO's incoming recruiting class*
I dont see how there is any way MU fans, even the casual fan, can still stomach this. The casual fan has to at least see all the Ls and see something is amiss. Watching the game was plain embarassing. Not a MU team I remember. They look scared. Its just mind boggling to see how far off the rails the team has come. Early in the season losses were bearable and they got some nice wins, but those all seem like they were won by a team not even close to what was on the court the last 5 games. Its just getting so mind-numbing how irrelevant MU is, despite the $$$ funneled through the program. 7 years is a long time.
How does one define failure?
How about signing a McD AA and potentially not even getting him to campus cause you imploded a team with an AA and historic scorer for the second year in a row. That says it all
Quote from: CountryRoads on March 03, 2020, 09:50:37 PM
As a relatively strong backer of Wojo myself, this was finally the game that made me realize we need a change. I really, really wanted him to succeed and I like him and his energy and passion for the university, but he doesn't have what it takes to win here I don't think.
Energy and Passion!??????? Hes plain vanilla and might as well be coaching from the locker room.
*googles TJO's incoming recruiting class*
Yep, time for a change.
Tear it down and rebuild it.
I feel like I'm watching the great awakening in real time.
Quote from: JWags85 on March 03, 2020, 09:54:14 PM
How does one define failure?
How about signing a McD AA and potentially not even getting him to campus cause you imploded a team with an AA and historic scorer for the second year in a row. That says it all
Harsh. But sadly, potentially true.
I'm officially off the train too. Wait. I jumped off 8 games into Wojo's first year.
Was it ever a train or was it a 'train'
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/r0pR1hEssTSA9mrWXcdDaLdzyElcKoPhJMVWSEBU77H5BUOXLJS2-JQKwHRDy9pS9gRSJS4iIIkWhI1MDnIbW86ymRGGqyvA9CXx874NOtKQ25YWaukiTak3X7VkEN6_NdnMR3TA8c_RylyMfs3KCg)
Yes..
Yes...
My numbers grow, tomorrow marquette, the next day the world!!!!
John Beilein.
Tanned. Rested. Ready.
Quote from: keefe on March 03, 2020, 09:57:06 PM
John Beilein.
Tanned. Rested. Ready.
TJO - Bring him home!
Its funny how fast this meltdown happened on this forum. The apologists were feeling well full here with that top 25 ranking.
Now the mood on this forum is
"Bring out yer dead.........bring out yer dead"
Finally the era of wojo apology might come to an end.
Our best chance to rid the program of this mediocrity magnet is he notices the winds changing and bails for a desperate power 5 program. Not even sure anybody would be interested at this point though.
Quote from: keefe on March 03, 2020, 09:57:06 PM
John Beilein.
Tanned. Rested. Ready.
Would be an incredible get, however could we afford him? Wasn't he making like 3.5M at Michigan?
Quote from: JWags85 on March 03, 2020, 09:54:14 PM
How does one define failure?
How about signing a McD AA and potentially not even getting him to campus cause you imploded a team with an AA and historic scorer for the second year in a row. That says it all
Well said.
This sucks.
Quote from: Mike Deane's Seat Belt on March 03, 2020, 09:59:50 PM
Its funny how fast this meltdown happened on this forum. The apologists were feeling well full here with that top 25 ranking.
Now the mood on this forum is
"Bring out yer dead.........bring out yer dead"
Finally the era of wojo apology might come to an end.
Our best chance to rid the program of this mediocrity magnet is he notices the winds changing and bails for a desperate power 5 program. Not even sure anybody would be interested at this point though.
Imagine being a projo and touting a top 25 ranking during a couple weeks of the season..
How big of a loser does one have to be..
We were well on our way to hanging VCU type banners at the Fiserv
Quote from: CountryRoads on March 03, 2020, 10:00:21 PM
Would be an incredible get, however could we afford him? Wasn't he making like 3.5M at Michigan?
Well, he is getting a good chunk of his contract from Cleveland bought out. Could subsidize $500K-$1MM of it
It should be obvious by now that Wojo is not the answer (really, he hasn't been the answer for a while)
Quote from: CountryRoads on March 03, 2020, 10:00:21 PM
Would be an incredible get, however could we afford him? Wasn't he making like 3.5M at Michigan?
Pocket change for this program.
To be fair when we first got ranked things were looking pretty good. Why would anyone not be optimistic
Quote from: Johnny B on March 03, 2020, 10:05:48 PM
To be fair when we first got ranked things were looking pretty good. Why would anyone not be optimistic
Because history, that's why.
But I guess I can try to see why some would remain optimistic. I don't recall our crap ty fans ever having to bring up mid season rankings while Buzz or others were here
Unfortunately, It's time. It may suck going forward with someone new but we all know now that it's going to continue to suck with the current guy if he stays/or we keep him!
Quote from: CountryRoads on March 03, 2020, 10:00:21 PM
Would be an incredible get, however could we afford him? Wasn't he making like 3.5M at Michigan?
The real question is: Can we afford not to?
I have been steadily moving from the "Projo" half of sosojodom to the "Nojo" half since the Creighton game. I don't have much faith that it will be turned around.
Despite that, he shouldn't and won't be fired this year. Doing so dooms us to another multi-year rebuild and I honestly don't know if we can afford that. Give him the next year, give him the chance to coach his way out of the hole while working every backchannel to ensure a smooth transition to the next coach. Either Wojo turns it around or we have a new coach brought in the right way with a young core to build around. We can survive one bad hire. I don't think we can survive two consecutive bad hires.
Unless he leaves on his own accord, he's our coach for another year. As long he's the coach, I will continue to support him and hope he figures it out. I don't have much hope any more.
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on March 03, 2020, 11:31:21 PM
I have been steadily moving from the "Projo" half of sosojodom to the "Nojo" half since the Creighton game. I don't have much faith that it will be turned around.
Despite that, he shouldn't and won't be fired this year. Doing so dooms us to another multi-year rebuild and I honestly don't know if we can afford that. Give him the next year, give him the chance to coach his way out of the hole while working every backchannel to ensure a smooth transition to the next coach. Either Wojo turns it around or we have a new coach brought in the right way with a young core to build around. We can survive one bad hire. I don't think we can survive two consecutive bad hires.
Unless he leaves on his own accord, he's our coach for another year. As long he's the coach, I will continue to support him and hope he figures it out. I don't have much hope any more.
Well, there isn't any hope for next year. You have a bunch of young big men coming in and no outside game nor PG to complement them with. Offensively, it's going to be very ugly. Defensively.....who knows really. They should be good at protecting the paint and rebounding. Freshman typically aren't big contributors unless they're blue chips. Garcia may be that but will be very green. Next year you don't have one person who can create their own shot. It's going to be very rough.....especially if rest of Big East returns it's upperclassmen.
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on March 03, 2020, 11:31:21 PM
I have been steadily moving from the "Projo" half of sosojodom to the "Nojo" half since the Creighton game. I don't have much faith that it will be turned around.
Despite that, he shouldn't and won't be fired this year. Doing so dooms us to another multi-year rebuild and I honestly don't know if we can afford that. Give him the next year, give him the chance to coach his way out of the hole while working every backchannel to ensure a smooth transition to the next coach. Either Wojo turns it around or we have a new coach brought in the right way with a young core to build around. We can survive one bad hire. I don't think we can survive two consecutive bad hires.
Unless he leaves on his own accord, he's our coach for another year. As long he's the coach, I will continue to support him and hope he figures it out. I don't have much hope any more.
Well, thanks for that depressing post. Uhg! Maybe you could follow up with a post about coronavirus to lift our spirits?
Hate it but I think you're right.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on March 03, 2020, 11:45:23 PM
Well, thanks for that depressing post. Uhg! Maybe you could follow up with a post about coronavirus to lift our spirits?
Hate it but I think you're right.
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5c3009b885ede13d98b5df41/1567440582479-6LSTE7BZVKQH856RXYMY/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kPoswlzjSVMM-SxOp7CV59BZw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWQUxwkmyExglNqGp0IvTJZamWLI2zvYWH8K3-s_4yszcp2ryTI0HqTOaaUohrI8PIeQMKeWYgwh6Mn73n2eZmZLHHpcPIxgL2SArp_rN2M_AKMshLAGzx4R3EDFOm1kBS/Arby%27s+2.jpg)
Quote from: MU24 on March 03, 2020, 09:51:01 PM
I dont see how there is any way MU fans, even the casual fan, can still stomach this. The casual fan has to at least see all the Ls and see something is amiss. Watching the game was plain embarassing. Not a MU team I remember. They look scared. Its just mind boggling to see how far off the rails the team has come. Early in the season losses were bearable and they got some nice wins, but those all seem like they were won by a team not even close to what was on the court the last 5 games. Its just getting so mind-numbing how irrelevant MU is, despite the $$$ funneled through the program. 7 years is a long time.
I have gotten married, had 2 kids, bought a house, sold a house, brought another house, and gotten 2 new jobs since our last tourney win. I can honestly barely even remember what it's like to win a game of consequence in March.
Apathy setting in, sad.
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on March 03, 2020, 11:31:21 PM
I have been steadily moving from the "Projo" half of sosojodom to the "Nojo" half since the Creighton game. I don't have much faith that it will be turned around.
Despite that, he shouldn't and won't be fired this year. Doing so dooms us to another multi-year rebuild and I honestly don't know if we can afford that. Give him the next year, give him the chance to coach his way out of the hole while working every backchannel to ensure a smooth transition to the next coach. Either Wojo turns it around or we have a new coach brought in the right way with a young core to build around. We can survive one bad hire. I don't think we can survive two consecutive bad hires.
Unless he leaves on his own accord, he's our coach for another year. As long he's the coach, I will continue to support him and hope he figures it out. I don't have much hope any more.
If that is the sentiment by Scholl at the end of the season then why waste time by delaying the inevitable? Next season is a rebuild one way or the other so get on with it. Unlike most here who argued over whether Wojo inherited a dumpster fire or not, I argued that he would have been better with the Pole Cut from day one instead to get his guys in here. He wasted 2-3 years and many roster spots on guys who didn't fit his systems, and in fact in season six, his rosters are still unbalanced. And who knows what will happen if immediate transfers are allowed?
Still some burn left in this season, but people are watching how or if he can finish. Wojo lost many alums after that Creighton loss coaching sentiment wise. To extend the current if it ends bad is just an excuse not to pay his buyout, IMO.
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on March 04, 2020, 05:41:32 AM
I have gotten married, had 2 kids, bought a house, sold a house, brought another house, and gotten 2 new jobs since our last tourney win. I can honestly barely even remember what it's like to win a game of consequence in March.
Apathy setting in, sad.
Similar situation. With Wojo at the helm, I am increasingly indifferent to the program.
Quote from: warriorfred on March 04, 2020, 06:20:57 AM
Similar situation. With Wojo at the helm, I am increasingly indifferent to the program.
Agreed. Im more of a GoJo than a NoJo, as in just go, I dont care enough anymore to get mad.
Quote from: JWags85 on March 03, 2020, 09:54:14 PM
How does one define failure?
How about signing a McD AA and potentially not even getting him to campus cause you imploded a team with an AA and historic scorer for the second year in a row. That says it all
Is Dawson not coming to MU?
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 04, 2020, 05:52:23 AM
If that is the sentiment by Scholl at the end of the season then why waste time by delaying the inevitable? Next season is a rebuild one way or the other so get on with it. Unlike most here who argued over whether Wojo inherited a dumpster fire or not, I argued that he would have been better with the Pole Cut from day one instead to get his guys in here. He wasted 2-3 years and many roster spots on guys who didn't fit his systems, and in fact in season six, his rosters are still unbalanced. And who knows what will happen if immediate transfers are allowed?
Still some burn left in this season, but people are watching how or if he can finish. Wojo lost many alums after that Creighton loss coaching sentiment wise. To extend the current if it ends bad is just an excuse not to pay his buyout, IMO.
I agree with this--no guarantees on current roster or recruits until the season starts. There are better or worse times to transition coaches, but you don't do it for that reason and you certainly can't thread the needle to time it right.
The latter is a quick way to lose the alum base. You think a few students booing makes our fans entitled....wait until you have the perception of a 'dead man walking' season.
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on March 03, 2020, 11:31:21 PM
I have been steadily moving from the "Projo" half of sosojodom to the "Nojo" half since the Creighton game. I don't have much faith that it will be turned around.
Despite that, he shouldn't and won't be fired this year. Doing so dooms us to another multi-year rebuild and I honestly don't know if we can afford that. Give him the next year, give him the chance to coach his way out of the hole while working every backchannel to ensure a smooth transition to the next coach. Either Wojo turns it around or we have a new coach brought in the right way with a young core to build around. We can survive one bad hire. I don't think we can survive two consecutive bad hires.
Unless he leaves on his own accord, he's our coach for another year. As long he's the coach, I will continue to support him and hope he figures it out. I don't have much hope any more.
If you know or don't have much faith that Wojo can't get it done to your expected level, then the plug should be pulled. Delaying it just makes it worse and prolongs the inevitable.
Ugh...I can't believe we are here again. I was definitely a ProJo through much of this season, mainly due to the fact I want MU basketball to do always do well. I waivered to a SoSoJo a couple weeks ago and now it's a reluctant NoJo. The evidence is just too overwhelming.
Quote from: CountryRoads on March 03, 2020, 10:00:21 PM
Would be an incredible get, however could we afford him? Wasn't he making like 3.5M at Michigan?
That's about what Buzz was making when he left. Hopefully Wojo walks (tucks his tail) so we save some $$
Was a Wojo fan, but tired of late season collapses. After MH there is no big time talent.
Real reason we lost last night was DP FT shooting. They made 31 of 35 for a 88.6 %. That's from a team that averages 64.1% good for #332 in D1 BB.
Hall was 9/10 he shoots 52.1% for year
Butz was 6/7 he shoots 47% for year
Quote from: Warrior71 on March 04, 2020, 08:56:25 AM
Was a Wojo fan, but tired of late season collapses. After MH there is no big time talent.
Real reason we lost last night was DP FT shooting. They made 31 of 35 for a 88.6 %. That's from a team that averages 64.1% good for #332 in D1 BB.
Hall was 9/10 he shoots 52.1% for year
Butz was 6/7 he shoots 47% for year
Yep. In a vacuum, I would look at this game and say "wow, terrible reffing and we got super unlucky with DePaul hitting all of their FTs." Put it together with a second consecutive late season collapse and the phrase "you make your own luck" comes to mind.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 04, 2020, 05:52:23 AM
Unlike most here who argued over whether Wojo inherited a dumpster fire or not, I argued that he would have been better with the Pole Cut from day one instead to get his guys in here. He wasted 2-3 years and many roster spots on guys who didn't fit his systems, and in fact in season six, his rosters are still unbalanced. And who knows what will happen if immediate transfers are allowed?
He had four guys leftover from Buzz in year two... JJJ, Duane, Luke, and Sandy.
Sandy left, but would you have launched JJJ and Duane? Not sure I would have.
Quote from: TFlegend on March 04, 2020, 07:37:57 AM
Ugh...I can't believe we are here again. I was definitely a ProJo through much of this season, mainly due to the fact I want MU basketball to do always do well. I waivered to a SoSoJo a couple weeks ago and now it's a reluctant NoJo. The evidence is just too overwhelming.
I want Marquette to
do well also. That's why I want Wojo OUT. We cannot
do well with him as coach.
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on March 03, 2020, 11:31:21 PM
I have been steadily moving from the "Projo" half of sosojodom to the "Nojo" half since the Creighton game. I don't have much faith that it will be turned around.
Despite that, he shouldn't and won't be fired this year. Doing so dooms us to another multi-year rebuild and I honestly don't know if we can afford that. Give him the next year, give him the chance to coach his way out of the hole while working every backchannel to ensure a smooth transition to the next coach. Either Wojo turns it around or we have a new coach brought in the right way with a young core to build around. We can survive one bad hire. I don't think we can survive two consecutive bad hires.
Unless he leaves on his own accord, he's our coach for another year. As long he's the coach, I will continue to support him and hope he figures it out. I don't have much hope any more.
I'm going to push back on this a little. If Wojo's not the guy, giving him another year to make for a smoother transition isn't the way to go. It's essentially keeping him for the class. There is never a good time to get rid of a coach, other than maybe in Al fashion where you know it's coming 100%.
Immediate eligibility transfers are coming, so keeping Wojo for a class doesn't make sense because all those freshmen will likely be able to leave as sophomores with no penalty anyway. Maybe we save Garcia, Oso, & Lewis in the short term only to lose Kendall Brown & Jalen Warley next year.
Also, trying to pad the new guy's roster is what got us to this divisiveness in the first place. Was the cupboard empty or not? Did Wojo win in year three because of his coaching or Buzz's players? Were we set back by the 2016 team that scheduled to guarantee 20 wins but also insure a NCAA bid was a near impossible lift?
It took O'Neill and Crean a few years and that's fine. Let the new guy start fresh, show us what they can do on the fly, and start building their thing from the ground up.
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on March 03, 2020, 11:31:21 PM
I have been steadily moving from the "Projo" half of sosojodom to the "Nojo" half since the Creighton game. I don't have much faith that it will be turned around.
Despite that, he shouldn't and won't be fired this year. Doing so dooms us to another multi-year rebuild and I honestly don't know if we can afford that. Give him the next year, give him the chance to coach his way out of the hole while working every backchannel to ensure a smooth transition to the next coach. Either Wojo turns it around or we have a new coach brought in the right way with a young core to build around. We can survive one bad hire. I don't think we can survive two consecutive bad hires.
Unless he leaves on his own accord, he's our coach for another year. As long he's the coach, I will continue to support him and hope he figures it out. I don't have much hope any more.
what about his performance warrants another year to prove himself
Quote from: MUfan12 on March 04, 2020, 09:37:06 AM
He had four guys leftover from Buzz in year two... JJJ, Duane, Luke, and Sandy.
Sandy left, but would you have launched JJJ and Duane? Not sure I would have.
There are the one year flyers he took as a result like Wally, Katin, Levin (2 month flyer) and Carlino. I would even argue Henry. Not his system guys. With the Buzz transfers, they soon left, and with them even more holes left open. 2-3 years of going sideways.
Get in and get to your guys and systems from Day 1 as soon as you can.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 04, 2020, 11:46:25 AM
There are the one year flyers he took as a result like Wally, Katin, Levin (2 month flyer) and Carlino. I would even argue Henry. Not his system guys. With the Buzz transfers, they soon left, and with them even more holes left open. 2-3 years of going sideways.
Get in and get to your guys and systems from Day 1 as soon as you can.
That makes sense, I took it simply as guys he recruited.
Many are overstating the amount of time it would take to rebuild and be competitive. In this day and age, there are so many (grad) transfers, de-commitments, jucos, foreign players, etc. If we got a good coach in here, he could scrap together a team and be competitive almost right away.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 04, 2020, 10:26:20 AM
I'm going to push back on this a little. If Wojo's not the guy, giving him another year to make for a smoother transition isn't the way to go. It's essentially keeping him for the class. There is never a good time to get rid of a coach, other than maybe in Al fashion where you know it's coming 100%.
Immediate eligibility transfers are coming, so keeping Wojo for a class doesn't make sense because all those freshmen will likely be able to leave as sophomores with no penalty anyway. Maybe we save Garcia, Oso, & Lewis in the short term only to lose Kendall Brown & Jalen Warley next year.
Also, trying to pad the new guy's roster is what got us to this divisiveness in the first place. Was the cupboard empty or not? Did Wojo win in year three because of his coaching or Buzz's players? Were we set back by the 2016 team that scheduled to guarantee 20 wins but also insure a NCAA bid was a near impossible lift?
It took O'Neill and Crean a few years and that's fine. Let the new guy start fresh, show us what they can do on the fly, and start building their thing from the ground up.
I agree with this analysis. I will say that we probably made the tourney in 2017 because of the injuries to Mo Watson and Edmond Sumner on Creighton and Xavier. IIRC, we played them after those guys got hurt and went 4-0; with those guys in the lineup, it might've been 0-4. Both teams were way better than us prior to injuries.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on March 04, 2020, 01:39:24 PM
I agree with this analysis. I will say that we probably made the tourney in 2017 because of the injuries to Mo Watson and Edmond Sumner on Creighton and Xavier. IIRC, we played them after those guys got hurt and went 4-0; with those guys in the lineup, it might've been 0-4. Both teams were way better than us prior to injuries.
This is true. We can only play to our schedule, but we did catch breaks by getting quality wins without teams at full strength.