MUScoop

What do you think was the most complete (not necessarily *best*) win of the Wojo era? I think last night has to be up there for me. To win by 19 with our top 3 scorers going a combined 11-34 from the field is impressive. Solid defense. Everyone playing within themselves on offense. And a dominant nearly coast to coast win.

I get Butler is down a bit, but that's still a very good team that had to be hungry for a win. And we dismantled them by taking them out of their offense and being ready to have guys other than M2N step up for us. Wojo had us prepared and I think his body language at the end of the game was indicative of *him* thinking it was one of the best wins of his career.

I'm ready to believe in Wojo again. But being 17-6 and ranked on 10-02-20 can't be the zenith of the season. I don't expect us to win Wednesday, but if we finish top-4 in conference and win a game or two in the NCAA I'm on the projo wagon.

Are you European?

I voted "other" because my pick would be the home win over Kansas State last year. It was a game against a quality opponent where we played great offensively, played great defensively, and had the game pretty well in hand for the last 30 minutes. Yesterday was up there, but the K-State game felt a lot more comfortable to me. Before the McEwen 3/McEwen 3/Bailey 3 sequence, yesterday always felt too close for comfort. I would look up and see us up 9-11 but it didn't feel like it. That K-State game felt more controlled.

Yesterday was awesome, and deserves consideration, but my vote is for K-State.

Quote from: brewcity77 on February 10, 2020, 07:19:51 AM
Are you European?

Was thinking the same thing.

Quote from: brewcity77 on February 10, 2020, 07:19:51 AM
Are you European?

Yeah.

Quote from: 1SE on February 10, 2020, 07:48:49 AM
Yeah.

Makes sense (just like day/month/year, going from smallest to largest increment of time, makes sense).

I really felt for the first time this year that Wojo helped the team be better than the sum of it's parts.  Great game plan, great execution.

Problem is, that Wojo hasn't been able to string multiple games together where this was true.  Hope the Butler game is a sign of good things to come.

I mentioned yesterday that this was most complete win that I could remember over the Wojo era. You noted some good wins, but I probably was most impressed with the win on Sunday.

Oh cool....ready to believe again....it's like a born again convention here after a couple of wins.

Quote from: Cheeks on February 10, 2020, 08:36:44 AM
Oh cool....ready to believe again....it's like a born again convention here after a couple of wins.

A lot of people are rightly impressed we won a game where Howard didn't have to shoot 25 times. Wojo was good about making a fluid offense against Butler.

Quote from: #UnleashJayce on February 10, 2020, 08:37:46 AM
A lot of people are rightly impressed we won a game where Howard didn't have to shoot 25 times. Wojo was good about making a fluid offense against Butler.

Yes - my biggest concern this year is that we would completely live and die by Markus. Last night we put together a great team game with him having one of his worst games of the seasons. That's kudos to Wojo but not something we've seen from him often.

Plus, last night was built on of a string of recent success. Again, the proof in the pudding will still be what happens in March - but I'm much more optimistic about finishing the season in a way we can be proud of for the first time under his watch.

That Nova win last month shouldn't be on the list.

The first 12 minutes of the second half was some of the most tentative, and subsequently worst, stretches of play we've seen this season. Got a bit lucky Nova was absolutely awful in the first half and buried themselves.

That's why Wednesday will be fun. Expect both teams to be much more put together than the first meeting.

Quote from: Cheeks on February 10, 2020, 08:36:44 AM
Oh cool....ready to believe again....it's like a born again convention here after a couple of wins.

Shocking that winning or losing would impact people's views, huh?

Quote from: Golden Avalanche on February 10, 2020, 08:54:09 AM
That Nova win last month shouldn't be on the list.

The first 12 minutes of the second half was some of the most tentative, and subsequently worst, stretches of play we've seen this season. Got a bit lucky Nova was absolutely awful in the first half and buried themselves.

That's why Wednesday will be fun. Expect both teams to be much more put together than the first meeting.

That Nova defensive effort was the 2nd best in conference over the past five seasons. Some of us enjoy watching and winning with defense when the offense isn't clicking.

Quote from: skianth16 on February 10, 2020, 08:56:16 AM
Shocking that winning or losing would impact people's views, huh?

#resultsmatta??

I cannot believe this coach has led us to that many quality wins

Quote from: skianth16 on February 10, 2020, 08:56:16 AM
Shocking that winning or losing would impact people's views, huh?

Revelations

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 10, 2020, 09:03:18 AM
That Nova defensive effort was the 2nd best in conference over the past five seasons. Some of us enjoy watching and winning with defense when the offense isn't clicking.

The defense was good. You write it was the second best of the Wojo era. Great. That doesn't absolve the fact that the offense was poor for 30% of the game.

Quote from: brewcity77 on February 10, 2020, 07:19:51 AM
Are you European?

Any time you beat a Top 10 team in May is impressive.  That's why I went with the win at Providence.

Quote from: lurch91 on February 10, 2020, 08:17:39 AM
I really felt for the first time this year that Wojo helped the team be better than the sum of it's parts.  Great game plan, great execution.

Problem is, that Wojo hasn't been able to string multiple games together where this was true.  Hope the Butler game is a sign of good things to come.

Watch college basketball. Even the best coaches at the best programs have trouble stringing multiple games of greatness together. For example, San Diego State keeps winning, but I've read several accounts of their games, and many times they are defensive slogs in which the offense has struggled.

Plus, I know this is a difficult concept for some fans (not saying you), but sometimes the other team/coach deserves a little credit, too. Sometimes they intentionally muck up games. Sometimes they have great defensive players and/or schemes that make it practically impossible to have fluid, "complete" offensive performances against them. Sometimes they have a star who makes it near impossible to contain them all game (as Markus has done to some opposing defenses).

I would posit that we have had 3 "pretty darn complete" victories over quality opponents in just the last 5 weeks - Nova, X and Butler. And the wins over other highly motivated BEast rivals (St. John's and DePaul at home, GT and X on the road) were nothing to sneeze at, either.

That's probably as close to "stringing multiple complete games together" as most fans - not just Warriors fans, but most teams' fans - can reasonably expect.

The great teams are the ones who win when they AREN'T playing complete games. They fight through shooting slumps, they get more resolute on D, they prevail despite injuries and/or foul trouble, they scrap and claw to hang in games when they don't "have it." Those are the wins that usually decide how good a team's season will be, because the "complete" ones are few and far between. Think about some of Buzz's teams and how hard those teams had to fight for most wins.

But sure, if folks are seeking close-to-perfect games, Wojo hasn't had many of them.

Quote from: MU82 on February 10, 2020, 09:41:28 AM
Watch college basketball. Even the best coaches at the best programs have trouble stringing multiple games of greatness together. For example, San Diego State keeps winning, but I've read several accounts of their games, and many times they are defensive slogs in which the offense has struggled.

Plus, I know this is a difficult concept for some fans (not saying you), but sometimes the other team/coach deserves a little credit, too. Sometimes they intentionally muck up games. Sometimes they have great defensive players and/or schemes that make it practically impossible to have fluid, "complete" offensive performances against them. Sometimes they have a star who makes it near impossible to contain them all game (as Markus has done to some opposing defenses).

I would posit that we have had 3 "pretty darn complete" victories over quality opponents in just the last 5 weeks - Nova, X and Butler. And the wins over other highly motivated BEast rivals (St. John's and DePaul at home, GT and X on the road) were nothing to sneeze at, either.

That's probably as close to "stringing multiple complete games together" as most fans - not just Warriors fans, but most teams' fans - can reasonably expect.

The great teams are the ones who win when they AREN'T playing complete games. They fight through shooting slumps, they get more resolute on D, they prevail despite injuries and/or foul trouble, they scrap and claw to hang in games when they don't "have it." Those are the wins that usually decide how good a team's season will be, because the "complete" ones are few and far between. Think about some of Buzz's teams and how hard those teams had to fight for most wins.

But sure, if folks are seeking close-to-perfect games, Wojo hasn't had many of them.

First sentence above is on the mark.  I truly wonder how much hoops outside of MU and the BE other people watch, especially the ones who are anti-Wojo.  If they did, they would realize that some of the issues we have are the same across the country.  It isn't always coaching, its 18-20 year old kids that just don't have the experience and ability yet at this point of their career.

I watched the end of the LSU-Auburn game over the weekend.  Both teams made huge mistakes at the end that everyone hear loses a gasket over.  Dumb fouls, terrible decisions, bad shots and blowing of late leads.  And this was 2 top 20 teams with well regarded coaches.

I don't get the complete dismissal on consistency though too.  To have a successful season you need to win a few of the 50/50 games and have some consistency. 

Good news is this is the second year in a row where we are setup for a really great conference performance.  Now up to the coaches and team to win the winnable ones and hopefully grind out on or two that are 50/50s.

We play with the philosophy that we deployed yesterday and I think we can have an extremely successful season. 

I loved the game yesterday but voted for the Nova game of '17. First win by MU vs. a #1 team during regular season and last, but certainly not least, the game appeared to be lost until the final minute. A surprise win in the final moments vs. a #1 team is a difficult game to top as the best win under Wojo but yesterday's win is the second best to me.

As many have already said, it was very encouraging to see the team win with Markus not accounting for about half of our points. Loved the defense! More of that please, especially on Wednesday. 

Great to see Jordan get T'd up but I wish Theo would stop taunting opponents that he is pissed at. The T he got in another game ( Central Arkansas?) for slamming the ball into the opponent's gut after dunking (right in front of the ref!) and Wojo yelling at him to knock it off yesterday are a little concerning. I love the way he plays but we could do without T's, thank you. 

I thought that the possibility of a win vs. Nova in Philly was highly unlikely but after the win Vs. Butler I think it is a 50/50 chance.


 

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 10, 2020, 09:53:07 AM
I don't get the complete dismissal on consistency though too.  To have a successful season you need to win a few of the 50/50 games and have some consistency. 

Good news is this is the second year in a row where we are setup for a really great conference performance.  Now up to the coaches and team to win the winnable ones and hopefully grind out on or two that are 50/50s.

We play with the philosophy that we deployed yesterday and I think we can have an extremely successful season.

I, for one, am certainly not dismissing consistency. I just might be defining it a little differently than you do.

To me, "consistency" (when defined as something positive) is finding ways to win no matter what. During our 20-2 stretch last season, there were many games that some would not have called "complete," but we consistently found ways to win. The same has been true this past month, when we've gone 6-1. I simply think it is unrealistic for fans to expect one beautiful blowout win after another in a league as competitive as the Big East.

I also believe there are a lot more 50/50 games than you think there are. Just because we fans believe our Warriors are better than Georgetown, it doesn't mean that's more than a 50/50 game, especially on the road. I suggest there are more 50/50 games than any other kind.

I certainly agree with your last sentence ... as long as you are aware that a quality opponent playing well will have something to say about how "complete" we might be able to be when we play them.

Every BEast team has a NET rating under 75. Every freakin' win is a great win!

Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 10, 2020, 09:53:07 AM
I don't get the complete dismissal on consistency though too.  To have a successful season you need to win a few of the 50/50 games and have some consistency. 

Good news is this is the second year in a row where we are setup for a really great conference performance.  Now up to the coaches and team to win the winnable ones and hopefully grind out on or two that are 50/50s.

We play with the philosophy that we deployed yesterday and I think we can have an extremely successful season.

We've already won quite a few 50/50 games this season.  @ Gtown 90 seconds to go, win prob 52.4.  @ X 60 seconds to go in 2OT, win prob 52.6.  DePaul 90 seconds to go, win prob 52.9 (after being 18.5% with just over 8 to play).  Yes we've lost some 50/50 games too, but you don't win 6 of 7 in this conference without a couple of grinders.

Quote from: Golden Avalanche on February 10, 2020, 09:24:48 AM
The defense was good. You write it was the second best of the Wojo era. Great. That doesn't absolve the fact that the offense was poor for 30% of the game.

Yeah, the defense was good...so good it was the worst Villanova offensive game since the old Big East broke apart. Simply, it deserves to be on the list...whether it gets a vote in the poll or not. It was a great grinder win over a top offense.

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 10, 2020, 10:13:22 AM
Yeah, the defense was good...so good it was the worst Villanova offensive game since the old Big East broke apart. Simply, it deserves to be on the list...whether it gets a vote in the poll or not. It was a great grinder win over a top offense.

You betcha!

I loved that game. We jumped on 'em early, built a nice cushion. Then, even though our offense struggled, we never really let them back in the game because our D was great. Theo was the effen man, and several other MU players also excelled on D.

I will take the exact same game Wednesday, even if it wasn't "complete" enough for some Scoopers!

Of course, Nova might do a few things that might not let us play as well. Last I heard, Jay Wright gets paid, too.

Quote from: MU82 on February 10, 2020, 10:21:01 AM
You betcha!

I loved that game. We jumped on 'em early, built a nice cushion. Then, even though our offense struggled, we never really let them back in the game because our D was great. Theo was the effen man, and several other MU players also excelled on D.

I will take the exact same game Wednesday, even if it wasn't "complete" enough for some Scoopers!

Of course, Nova might do a few things that might not let us play as well. Last I heard, Jay Wright gets paid, too.

Any time we win, it's complete enough! Want a complete game, ask Hollywood to create one for you.

Quote from: Its DJOver on February 10, 2020, 10:08:51 AM
We've already won quite a few 50/50 games this season.  @ Gtown 90 seconds to go, win prob 52.4.  @ X 60 seconds to go in 2OT, win prob 52.6.  DePaul 90 seconds to go, win prob 52.9 (after being 18.5% with just over 8 to play).  Yes we've lost some 50/50 games too, but you don't win 6 of 7 in this conference without a couple of grinders.

I was referring to games you are supposed to win, lose or are tough to call.  Not the in-game probability against DePaul.  Also I was not knocking any of the season thus far and said we are positioned to do really well.  Just need to keep it going.

Quote from: Goose on February 10, 2020, 08:24:24 AM
I mentioned yesterday that this was most complete win that I could remember over the Wojo era. You noted some good wins, but I probably was most impressed with the win on Sunday.

This game actually very much reminded me of @ Providence last year on 23-02-2019. Team was moving the ball well, canning open 3s, great team defense, everyone looked in sync.

We went 1-6 down the stretch after that, beginning with a loss at Villanova immediately following. Here's hoping the Hauser-less team has good vibes only from here on out!

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 10, 2020, 10:13:22 AM
Yeah, the defense was good...so good it was the worst Villanova offensive game since the old Big East broke apart. Simply, it deserves to be on the list...whether it gets a vote in the poll or not. It was a great grinder win over a top offense.

A complete game to me is playing well on both ends of the court for the full game.

A complete game to you is a team playing poorly on one end of the court for 1/3 of the game.

You're answering a question that wasn't asked by the thread topic. It's no problem. Time to move on.

Quote from: Golden Avalanche on February 10, 2020, 12:12:58 PM
A complete game to me is playing well on both ends of the court for the full game.

A complete game to you is a team playing poorly on one end of the court for 1/3 of the game.

You're answering a question that wasn't asked by the thread topic. It's no problem. Time to move on.

We've never played a complete game nor will we ever.  Every game will have some stretches of poor play.  The question is most complete game.  I agree with your argument that being poor for a third of the game on offense is a good reason to dismiss a game as the most complete game in the Wojo era, though.  In theory, all of these games are games where we played great against good or great teams, but you can nitpick when choosing from among them.

I'm not voting in this because I don't remember all the games well enough to pick one.

I think Buck O'Neill once said something like, "A great baseball catch is like a beautiful woman.  The last one you saw is always the greatest."  Great wins are like that.

Quote from: Golden Avalanche on February 10, 2020, 08:54:09 AM
That Nova win last month shouldn't be on the list.

The first 12 minutes of the second half was some of the most tentative, and subsequently worst, stretches of play we've seen this season. Got a bit lucky Nova was absolutely awful in the first half and buried themselves.

That's why Wednesday will be fun. Expect both teams to be much more put together than the first meeting.

Exactly. We were not that good in the second half. Scored 25 in the half. I know we were way up and so the tendency is to take your foot off the gas but that was not a complete game and I don't think it bodes well for Wednesday. That said I'll be there live and I will be wearing my lucky MU socks. They have never lost a true road game where I have been there and been wearing my lucky socks.  So things might just be fine.

Quote from: 1SE on February 10, 2020, 07:48:49 AM
Yeah.

(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/32/32502fae42d6a8653ce6b7ab719b14d77e6bc685879ef91858744e3ec517f262.jpg)

Quote from: Wojo's Whiteboard on February 10, 2020, 12:56:36 PM
Exactly. We were not that good in the second half. Scored 25 in the half. I know we were way up and so the tendency is to take your foot off the gas but that was not a complete game and I don't think it bodes well for Wednesday. That said I'll be there live and I will be wearing my lucky MU socks. They have never lost a true road game where I have been there and been wearing my lucky socks.  So things might just be fine.

(https://www.bluebuttonshop.com/imagedepot/S34/products/105055-8.jpg)

Quote from: skianth16 on February 10, 2020, 08:56:16 AM
Shocking that winning or losing would impact people's views, huh?

Shocking that even when we win lots of people piss their pants around here...wait, not shocking at all.

Some are able to see the big picture all a long, others only care about quarterly results and it shows.

Quote from: Cheeks on February 10, 2020, 01:22:31 PM
Shocking that even when we win lots of people piss their pants around here...wait, not shocking at all.

Some are able to see the big picture all a long, others only care about quarterly results and it shows.

You could not be a bigger loser my man

Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on February 10, 2020, 01:32:21 PM
You could not be a bigger loser my man

Can you imagine working with a person like this?

Quote from: TSmith34 on February 10, 2020, 03:58:13 PM
Can you imagine working with a person like this?

Absolutely harrowing to ponder

Reading the last few replies is a waste of my time. Some of us tire of this constant criticism and come here to learn and share basketball and don't really care what your opinions are. Use Ignore button and spare us .

Quote from: TSmith34 on February 10, 2020, 03:58:13 PM
Can you imagine working with a person like this?

Most people on my team have worked with me 10 years or longer, some of the highest management scores in the company.

You see this might surprise you and Ellenson especially since you all are cut from the same cloth, but how one acts online and how one acts in day to day interactions are not always the same.  As an example I doubt TSmith is a complete douchebag that injects the race card into so many day to day discussions like he does here on Scoop.  Proving that he acts one way here and another way on Scoop....Just an example.

"First, let me come out and apologize. For being a hypocrite, offensive and challenging, fill in a bunch of other not so glowing terms." –Jams

"I couldn't be more sincere" –Jams

https://imgur.com/gallery/aZTi7mb