Since Markus sustained his nose fracture, there's just a tiny sample size to evaluate his likely production going forward. Based solely on the way he performed @ home against the worst team in the country(JK), what should Marquette fans expect as the season progresses???
His 3pt shooting was average, he made a couple nice mid-range shots, but his drives to the hoop looked tentative, and he got blocked, or missed the shot most of the time. He did get some calls so there's that.
Does Markus break 50 again the rest of the season?? 45?? 40?? 35??
Will the team need him to??
Is he even capable of it in his current condition wearing the mask??
Was the end of the X game a fluke, or will Koby and Sacar consistently step up and provide supplemental scoring??
Will Brendan find his shot again??
What does Marquettes offense look like going forward??
I suspect he won't be driving as much. I missed yesterday's game...was not on here in Miami. Will watch tomorrow night when I get back, but I cannot imagine he will be as aggressive in his drives.
Quote from: Cheeks on February 02, 2020, 10:41:04 PM
I suspect he won't be driving as much. I missed yesterday's game...was not on here in Miami. Will watch tomorrow night when I get back, but I cannot imagine he will be as aggressive in his drives.
It looked to me like he was more hesitant and mechanical. Obviously he wasn't as aggressive. I also thought he might have gotten a bail out call once or twice near the end of the game.
I've mentioned this in a few threads but it seems to me like Markus is having as much of an "off" stretch as I can remember in his entire career at MU.
I know it sounds crazy when you're talking about a 28ppg leading scorer in the nation, but I feel like this has extended since conference play began.
40/122 from 3 in conference play, a very poor 32,8% for his standards and shooting abilities. If I'm not mistaken, his season avg has dropped below 40% for first time in his career. Someone mentioned his lower ORtg versus top tier KenPom teams, and I'm not sure if this was a pattern the last few seasons as well?
Overall FG percentage is down to 41% from 46 and 42 the last few seasons. FT percentage down to 86% from 89% last season.
I understand that both FG and 3P percentage typically decline some with increased volume, but the biggest red flag to me isn't that he is seemingly missing a lot more shots, it's that he has been missing badly on a lot of shots. In other words the eye test has just shown signs of him not being fully locked in.
I feel like there have been many games where he has just missed so many 3P shots very badly and in non-Markus like fashion. One example that sticks out was draining his first two threes at Butler within the first few mins, neither of which touched rim, and then proceeding to finish 4/18 from 3 that night. Another is that he's had a few air balls. Couple that with much less of what I call video-game-Markus mode where he goes on a tear and seemingly can't miss and it seems like he has just been a bit "off."
Don't get me wrong here- I'm as big of a Markus fanboy as they get- the guy is still amazing and a complete pleasure to watch. I just feel like he hasn't been his elite self so far in conference play.
Now the good news!! As we all know, All Marquettes do indeed reach equilibrium. I have a feeling that Mr Howard is saving his best for just the perfect moment this time around. I actually expect a nice improvement and amazing run to finish off his career. He will get the needed help from his teammates and we will all get to enjoy it.
We Are Marquette
Hmm video game mode like first half at Xavier?
DoctorV
I generally agree with your analysis, and I think some of it has to do with Koby not stepping up(thumb?) sooner.
Teams have really tried to take Markus out of games at times and when no one else is hitting Markus does tend to force things. It reminds me of Favre trying to do to much and throwing picks.
Maybe after the week off we will see Sacar back to his normal self, and Brendan will find his shot again. Koby did some good things in the DePaul game so, fingers crossed, he's back to where he was before the thumb injury. His handle has looked a lot better since the second half of the X game.
If all three of those guys produce, the team may not need Peak Markus.
Honestly, I didn't mind his approach in the 1st half at all(some didnt like it)
In terms of shooting 3s. He started 5/9 and probably only 1 was really forced. Problem is the last 3 were 2 awfully forced ones and one where he once again(I still dont get how he hasnt learned it) didn't pull the "Rowsey" for 3 easy free throws.
But hunting 3s im fine with. Markus gets a lot of foul calls on the perimiter whether its off the shot or coming around screens. So I like him out there. He doesnt get many calls driving into traffic.
So if he sticks to launching rhythm 3s and pulls ups while driving only when the lane is open, Im good with it.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on February 02, 2020, 11:10:26 PM
Hmm video game mode like first half at Xavier?
Does Marquette or the fans really want or need that??
These threads just get more and more ridiculous. At least the title I mean what the fu*k are you even talking about.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on February 02, 2020, 11:19:08 PM
Honestly, I didn't mind his approach in the 1st half at all(some didnt like it)
In terms of shooting 3s. He started 5/9 and probably only 1 was really forced. Problem is the last 3 were 2 awfully forced ones and one where he once again(I still dont get how he hasnt learned it) didn't pull the "Rowsey" for 3 easy free throws.
But hunting 3s im fine with. Markus gets a lot of foul calls on the perimiter whether its off the shot or coming around screens. So I like him out there. He doesnt get many calls driving into traffic.
So if he sticks to launching rhythm 3s and pulls ups while driving only when the lane is open, Im good with it.
Everything you said.
I hope the other guys pick up the slack on drives to the hoop.
I also hope after the week off Sacar and Brendan return to form.
Quote from: Johnny B on February 02, 2020, 11:20:24 PM
These threads just get more and more ridiculous. At least the title I mean what the fu*k are you even talking about.
Ummm
Are we going to see a major change in Marquettes offense going forward??
With some other options appearing and Markus limited, how will players usage change?? Have we seen the end of Peak Markus usage??
Also, if Markus could only score 31 @ home against the worst team on Marquettes remaining schedule, have we seen the end of Peak Markus scoring??
The Butler game should tell us a lot because the team should be close to full strength other than Markus. If Markus has to carry the scoring load in that game, then it's probably going to be the same old same old.
I think it's more of just teams selling out to make life difficult for Markus.
Howard has had the good fortune of playing alongside some elite offensive players during his time here so it's not a surprise his percentages are a bit down.
Sam was very close to being a top 50 player last season according to TRank. In 2018, Rowsey was top 20 and Sam was top 50 (Markus was top 50 also).
Love the team this year, but none of the other guys are even close to the level Sam or Rowsey were at the offensive end. I think that's making a big difference in his percentages.
Quote from: Johnny B on February 02, 2020, 11:20:24 PM
These threads just get more and more ridiculous. At least the title I mean what the fu*k are you even talking about.
Umm, you have heard of the concept of "Peak Oil", right? It refers to the point in Energy history where there is both the maxed-out global production of and global dependence on fossil fuels. So, in a sense, the original post was brilliant. It asks whether MU has reached a point beyond "Peak Markus", whereby MU can survive or even thrive with Markus at less than his best levels. It also addresses our dependence on him.
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on February 02, 2020, 11:17:44 PM
DoctorV
I generally agree with your analysis, and I think some of it has to do with Koby not stepping up(thumb?) sooner.
Teams have really tried to take Markus out of games at times and when no one else is hitting Markus does tend to force things. It reminds me of Favre trying to do to much and throwing picks.
Maybe after the week off we will see Sacar back to his normal self, and Brendan will find his shot again. Koby did some good things in the DePaul game so, fingers crossed, he's back to before the thumb injury. His handle has looked a lot better since the second half of the X game.
If all three of those guys produce, the team may not need Peak Markus.
1- Thanks.
2- Markus has always forced things to some extent, but he's been really good at it.
3- It would be awesome if 2 of Sacar, Koby, Brendan could regularly step in as secondary/tertiary scorers on any given night. As a matter of fact, this would make Markus much more efficient IMO as he would be more selective and take less/better shots. It would open up and create more space for him because the defense would have to concentrate more on the other finishers.
4- Ive said and maintained since before the season began that IMO MU will need a 3 headed guard combo of Markus+Sacar+Koby to score 50 or more points to win games. Could be 40 from #0 and 15 from the others combined or 27,15,12 or any different combo. Occasionally as the season has progressed I've realized that Brendan can step in here as well.
5- In regards to video game Markus not being what fans want or need who cares at this point? Fans want and need wins, no matta how.
6- Lastly to the point of not needing peak Markus- perhaps this is true to some extent in some games (as we saw at X where they didn't have him at all for an extended period).
However, if you're talking about this season exceeding the lofty expectations that many on scoop have set forth- whether its a top 3 finish in conf, a BE conf tourney title, a single win in the NCAA tourney, or a trip to the Sweet 16 and beyond- I believe that'll require a Peakishly freaky Markus
Quote from: NorthernDancerColt on February 02, 2020, 11:53:04 PM
Umm, you have heard of the concept of "Peak Oil", right? It refers to the point in Energy history where there is both the maxed-out global production of and global dependence on fossil fuels. So, in a sense, the original post was brilliant. It asks whether MU has reached a point beyond "Peak Markus", whereby MU can survive or even thrive with Markus at less than his best levels. It also addresses our dependence on him.
Genius?? he put up 31 and barely shot in the second half. Why are we even talking about this. How much does he score to be "peak" markus? It's one game and he scored 31. IS PEAK MARKUS DONE??? just weird but oh well.
Quote from: NorthernDancerColt on February 02, 2020, 11:53:04 PM
Umm, you have heard of the concept of "Peak Oil", right? It refers to the point in Energy history where there is both the maxed-out global production of and global dependence on fossil fuels. So, in a sense, the original post was brilliant. It asks whether MU has reached a point beyond "Peak Markus", whereby MU can survive or even thrive with Markus at less than his best levels. It also addresses our dependence on him.
I'm glad you got it.
Usually things only change when production is threatened by an sudden interruption of some kind, in this case a fractured nose.
So who do you think the alternative sources of production should or will be??
Will Marquette still be overly dependent on Markus??
Quote from: CountryRoads on February 02, 2020, 11:52:01 PM
I think it's more of just teams selling out to make life difficult for Markus.
Howard has had the good fortune of playing alongside some elite offensive players during his time here so it's not a surprise his percentages are a bit down.
Sam was very close to being a top 50 player last season according to TRank. In 2018, Rowsey was top 20 and Sam was top 50 (Markus was top 50 also).
Love the team this year, but none of the other guys are even close to the level Sam or Rowsey were at the offensive end. I think that's making a big difference in his percentages.
I was thinking the same thing, and I'm hoping Sacar, Koby , and Brendan combined, can be that consistent complimentary scoring source that reduces Marquettes dependence on Markus.
DoctorV, I fear you're right and much like we still mainly depend on oil, I think Marquette will still mainly depend on Markus.
And, much like the former, I hope the latter changes soon.
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on February 03, 2020, 12:09:12 AM
I'm glad you got it.
Usually things only change when production is threatened by an sudden interruption of some kind, in this case a fractured nose.
So who do you think the alternative sources of production should or will be??
Will Marquette still be overly dependent on Markus??
I wasn't able to watch the DePaul game, but just by seeing the highlights, Markus looks more than OK. His quickness was there as was the crispness of his step-back move. I expect a little natural hesitancy on the drive until his nose fully heals. Bailey, Cain, Sacar, and Koby have proven they can pick up the slack if Markus needs to ration his own PT to remain fresh for March.
Markus has always been a team player. Despite other narratives, he doesn't want his teammates to overly depend on him. He just wants to win.
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on February 02, 2020, 11:36:38 PM
Ummm
Are we going to see a major change in Marquettes offense going forward??
With some other options appearing and Markus limited, how will players usage change?? Have we seen the end of Peak Markus usage??
Also, if Markus could only score 31 @ home against the worst team on Marquettes remaining schedule, have we seen the end of Peak Markus scoring??
The Butler game should tell us a lot because the team should be close to full strength other than Markus. If Markus has to carry the scoring load in that game, then it's probably going to be the same old same old.
You realize only a handful of high-major guys will score over 30 in ANY game this season right?
Quote from: NorthernDancerColt on February 03, 2020, 01:11:02 AM
I wasn't able to watch the DePaul game, but just by seeing the highlights, Markus looks more than OK. His quickness was there as was the crispness of his step-back move. I expect a little natural hesitancy on the drive until his nose fully heals. Bailey, Cain, Sacar, and Koby have proven they can pick up the slack if Markus needs to ration his own PT to remain fresh for March.
Markus has always been a team player. Despite other narratives, he doesn't want his teammates to overly depend on him. He just wants to win.
Yeah , I kind of expected to see those other guys pick it up in the DePaul game but oddly enough Markus still had to be the man. It really makes me wonder going forward, if those other guys will show more consistency.
Hopefully fatigue was the major factor in the DePaul game. The Butler game will be the real test to see who else besides Markus is ready to step up every game.
Quote from: 1SE on February 03, 2020, 02:00:19 AM
You realize only a handful of high-major guys will score over 30 in ANY game this season right?
Yeah, but I couldn't go lower than 35 because Markus had just scored 31 against DePaul.
According to the "experts" DePaul is the worst team Marquette will play the rest of the season and Markus struggled to get 31 @ home. If those "experts" are right then even 30 on high usage may be difficult to achieve in his current condition.
I guess that's the question. Have we seen the end of being able to rely on Markus having a monster game if the other guys are struggling??
Are the other guys ready to contribute more points on a consistent basis??
Is the team ready to move away from
Peak Markus to a more sustainable offense??
I think the Butler game will give us some answers.
Just bizarre
I have become at least partially immune to crazily negative posts on Scoop (thank God), but saying that Markus sucks because he only put up 31 points after someone literally broke his face a few days earlier sets a new standard.
Is this really some weird way to ask if we've reached Peak Scoop....because this threat feels like Peak bizarro Scoop
Quote from: warriorchick on February 03, 2020, 08:04:13 AM
I have become at least partially immune to crazily negative posts on Scoop (thank God), but saying that Markus sucks because he only put up 31 points after someone literally broke his face a few days earlier sets a new standard.
Not a single person said he sucks, multiple people have mentioned how amazing he is.
The discussion is about if he's at his elite best.
There hasn't been a crazily negative post in the bunch. As a matter of fact, some (not I) are arguing that it might be a positive if he's not at his peak and others take over some of the load.
WhoaJoe suggested that the blow to the face may have shaken him off his game and wonders if it will continue. I noted that I feel he has been off his elite game for several games now- the shooting percentages and eye test don't lie- so I don't think it's injury related.
He's still amazing, he's still a G, he still could play any day for me. I just think he will get better and more efficient down the stretch, the best is yet to come.
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on February 03, 2020, 02:32:53 AM
Have we seen the end of being able to rely on Markus having a monster game if the other guys are struggling??
I know I'll regret engaging this site's Parody Troll, but isn't a "monster game" an outlier by definition? Why would anybody ever be "able to rely" on a monster game?
As great a scorer as Markus is, he has had "only" 14 games of 35+ points in his 113-game college career. Who "relies" on something that has happened only 12.4% of the time?
The Bengals went 2-14 this season. It was as logical to rely on them winning a game as it is to rely on Markus having a monster game.
Why would you kill yourself when you are a "guaranteed" first round pick in the NBA and you have a league that does not clean up the "players" that are only trying to "take you out"......
The Big East has to clean up this $hit.....
At least we are not playing in the American where you can apparently get bitten......Thats a new one.....
Back in fifth grade, my teacher showed this film about this isolated tribe in New Guinea that had just been "found" a few years earlier.
I think those people had a higher basketball IQ than many Scoopers.
Quote from: burger on February 03, 2020, 08:19:31 AM
Why would you kill yourself when you are a "guaranteed" first round pick in the NBA and you have a league that does not clean up the "players" that are only trying to "take you out"......
The Big East has to clean up this $hit.....
At least we are not playing in the American where you can apparently get bitten......Thats a new one.....
???
He's not guaranteed a first round pick by any stretch. And it's basketball. Not football. The chances of him suffering a career-threatening injury are miniscule.
Quote from: warriorchick on February 03, 2020, 08:04:13 AM
I have become at least partially immune to crazily negative posts on Scoop (thank God), but saying that Markus sucks because he only put up 31 points after someone literally broke his face a few days earlier sets a new standard.
yep. Hopefully WhoaJoe has run out of material
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 03, 2020, 08:19:53 AM
Back in fifth grade, my teacher showed this film about this isolated tribe in New Guinea that had just been "found" a few years earlier.
I think those people had a higher basketball IQ than many Scoopers.
Is it a too vocal minority Sultan like those 100 kids that booed? IDK, I just know it's not particularly fun around here anymore.
Quote from: jsglow on February 03, 2020, 08:23:13 AM
Is it a too vocal minority Sultan like those 100 kids that booed? IDK, I just know it's not particularly fun around here anymore.
It's like we have the most angst ridden fanbase in the world. Just in the last few days, we have the following topics:
**Markus scores too much
**Markus doesn't score enough
**Is Wojo a good coach?
**Is Wojo a bad coach?
**Is there a problem playing in the Fiserv Forum?
**We should move back to the Arena.
**Why is Wisconsin hockey playing there? Is it going to harm our new 20 game conference schedule?
**Why are we ignoring Tyrese Hunter?
I mean jeez, I'm not the biggest Wojo fan in the world, but even I can recognize that we are rooting for a near top 25 team, playing in a world-class arena that was sold out against DePaul FFS, and are witnessing one of the greatest players in program history. Yesterday before the Super Bowl, I was watching UCLA struggle against Utah in a half-empty Pauley Pavilion. UCLA!! And you're worrying about Marquette?
This fanbase needs to take a Xanax and calm the f*ck down.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 03, 2020, 08:32:48 AM
It's like we have the most angst ridden fanbase in the world. Just in the last few days, we have the following topics:
**Markus scores too much
**Markus doesn't score enough
**Is Wojo a good coach?
**Is Wojo a bad coach?
**Is there a problem playing in the Fiserv Forum?
**We should move back to the Arena.
**Why is Wisconsin hockey playing there? Is it going to harm our new 20 game conference schedule?
**Why are we ignoring Tyrese Hunter?
I mean jeez, I'm not the biggest Wojo fan in the world, but even I can recognize that we are rooting for a near top 25 team, playing in a world-class arena that was sold out against DePaul FFS, and are witnessing one of the greatest players in program history. Yesterday before the Super Bowl, I was watching UCLA struggle against Utah in a half-empty Pauley Pavilion. UCLA!! And you're worrying about Marquette?
This fanbase needs to take a Xanax and calm the f*ck down.
This is where I'm at, what I can't figure out is.....is this a "Marquette thing" or is this just where fanbases are going generally? Cause this $hit is exhausting y'all
Quote from: mu03eng on February 03, 2020, 08:39:50 AM
This is where I'm at, what I can't figure out is.....is this a "Marquette thing" or is this just where fanbases are going generally? Cause this $hit is exhausting y'all
I'm glad it's not just me feeling that way.
Quote from: DoctorV on February 03, 2020, 08:14:31 AM
Not a single person said he sucks, multiple people have mentioned how amazing he is.
The discussion is about if he's at his elite best.
There hasn't been a crazily negative post in the bunch. As a matter of fact, some (not I) are arguing that it might be a positive if he's not at his peak and others take over some of the load.
WhoaJoe suggested that the blow to the face may have shaken him off his game and wonders if it will continue. I noted that I feel he has been off his elite game for several games now- the shooting percentages and eye test don't lie- so I don't think it's injury related.
He's still amazing, he's still a G, he still could play any day for me. I just think he will get better and more efficient down the stretch, the best is yet to come.
The Big East has had 4 years to try to figure out how to stop Markus from scoring, and they have been unsuccessful. Teams double- and triple-team him and he still puts up an average of almost 30 points a game. The rest of his game has improved every year.
No, Markus has not peaked.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 03, 2020, 08:32:48 AM
fanbase MUSCOOP needs to take a Xanax and calm the f*ck down.
FIFY
Quote from: hairy worthen on February 03, 2020, 08:47:06 AM
FIFY
Have you been on twitter or in the stadium with the booing.....the whole fanbase needs to calm the f%^k down.
Quote from: warriorchick on February 03, 2020, 08:43:50 AM
The Big East has had 4 years to try to figure out how to stop Markus from scoring, and they have been unsuccessful. Teams double- and triple-team him and he still puts up an average of almost 30 points a game. The rest of his game has improved every year.
No, Markus has not peaked.
Now you're talking chick
Quote from: mu03eng on February 03, 2020, 08:48:06 AM
Have you been on twitter or in the stadium with the booing.....the whole fanbase needs to calm the f%^k down.
yes and yes. But fans going to fan. You would think the people on scoop would know better than the casual fan. guess not.
Quote from: warriorchick on February 03, 2020, 08:04:13 AM
I have become at least partially immune to crazily negative posts on Scoop (thank God), but saying that Markus sucks because he only put up 31 points after someone literally broke his face a few days earlier sets a new standard.
I thought it was bad at booing winning 5/6. But, yeah...this one takes the cake.
Seems appropriate to re-post this here.
@RobDauster
No one, and I mean *no one*, bitches about more stuff than Marquette fans. It's exhausting.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 03, 2020, 09:26:19 AM
Seems appropriate to re-post this here.
@RobDauster
No one, and I mean *no one*, bitches about more stuff than Marquette fans. It's exhausting.
He is not wrong.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 03, 2020, 08:32:48 AM
It's like we have the most angst ridden fanbase in the world. Just in the last few days, we have the following topics:
**Markus scores too much
**Markus doesn't score enough
**Is Wojo a good coach?
**Is Wojo a bad coach?
**Is there a problem playing in the Fiserv Forum?
**We should move back to the Arena.
**Why is Wisconsin hockey playing there? Is it going to harm our new 20 game conference schedule?
**Why are we ignoring Tyrese Hunter?
I mean jeez, I'm not the biggest Wojo fan in the world, but even I can recognize that we are rooting for a near top 25 team, playing in a world-class arena that was sold out against DePaul FFS, and are witnessing one of the greatest players in program history. Yesterday before the Super Bowl, I was watching UCLA struggle against Utah in a half-empty Pauley Pavilion. UCLA!! And you're worrying about Marquette?
This fanbase needs to take a Xanax and calm the f*ck down.
This.
Quote from: mu03eng on February 03, 2020, 08:39:50 AM
This is where I'm at, what I can't figure out is.....is this a "Marquette thing" or is this just where fanbases are going generally? Cause this $hit is exhausting y'all
And this.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 03, 2020, 09:26:19 AM
Seems appropriate to re-post this here.
@RobDauster
No one, and I mean *no one*, bitches about more stuff than Marquette fans. It's exhausting.
This tweet needs to be show in pregame intros.
It should be the new banner at the top of the Scoop page. But, being scoop, (and, pointing squarely at myself as one of the worst at this) we love to bitch about the bitching. And then some other people bitch about the bitching about the bitching.
Quote from: tower912 on February 03, 2020, 10:00:17 AM
It should be the new banner at the top of the Scoop page. But, being scoop, (and, pointing squarely at myself as one of the worst at this) we love to bitch about the bitching. And then some other people bitch about the bitching about the bitching.
What a ridiculous post.
Just stop answering/posting these trolls and stupid posts... They will go away ! ! ! 8-)
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 03, 2020, 08:32:48 AM
It's like we have the most angst ridden fanbase in the world. Just in the last few days, we have the following topics:
**Markus scores too much
**Markus doesn't score enough
**Is Wojo a good coach?
**Is Wojo a bad coach?
**Is there a problem playing in the Fiserv Forum?
**We should move back to the Arena.
**Why is Wisconsin hockey playing there? Is it going to harm our new 20 game conference schedule?
**Why are we ignoring Tyrese Hunter?
I mean jeez, I'm not the biggest Wojo fan in the world, but even I can recognize that we are rooting for a near top 25 team, playing in a world-class arena that was sold out against DePaul FFS, and are witnessing one of the greatest players in program history. Yesterday before the Super Bowl, I was watching UCLA struggle against Utah in a half-empty Pauley Pavilion. UCLA!! And you're worrying about Marquette?
This fanbase needs to take a Xanax and calm the f*ck down.
Word. Serenity now.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 03, 2020, 08:32:48 AM
It's like we have the most angst ridden fanbase in the world. Just in the last few days, we have the following topics:
**Markus scores too much
**Markus doesn't score enough
**Is Wojo a good coach?
**Is Wojo a bad coach?
**Is there a problem playing in the Fiserv Forum?
**We should move back to the Arena.
**Why is Wisconsin hockey playing there? Is it going to harm our new 20 game conference schedule?
**Why are we ignoring Tyrese Hunter?
I mean jeez, I'm not the biggest Wojo fan in the world, but even I can recognize that we are rooting for a near top 25 team, playing in a world-class arena that was sold out against DePaul FFS, and are witnessing one of the greatest players in program history. Yesterday before the Super Bowl, I was watching UCLA struggle against Utah in a half-empty Pauley Pavilion. UCLA!! And you're worrying about Marquette?
This fanbase needs to take a Xanax and calm the f*ck down.
I think you just found the next promotion for a game. Forget a bobblehead...take some xanax.
I just read the first page of this thread... is it supposed to be entirely teal?
Stan must be reading Scoop this morning.
Stan Johnson @MUCoachJohnson
Don't take greatness for granted. It doesn't come around often. Don't be that person after it has passed to say "I didn't realize what I was seeing in the moment." Greatness also isn't perfect. Nitpick all you want, but making "PERFECT" the enemy of "GREAT" is foolish.
Now we have Stan's random buzzword generator. This topic is something.
Quote from: guzica on February 03, 2020, 10:35:04 AM
Just stop answering/posting these trolls and stupid posts... They will go away ! ! ! 8-)
Sadly, they won't. Even when banned multiple times, they insist on coming back where not wanted with 2, 3, or 4 user names.
Quote from: NorthernDancerColt on February 02, 2020, 11:53:04 PM
Umm, you have heard of the concept of "Peak Oil", right? It refers to the point in Energy history where there is both the maxed-out global production of and global dependence on fossil fuels. So, in a sense, the original post was brilliant. It asks whether MU has reached a point beyond "Peak Markus", whereby MU can survive or even thrive with Markus at less than his best levels. It also addresses our dependence on him.
Peak Oil has been proven to be a hoax thus far...as a son of a petroleum geologist / geophysicist it used to make him laugh. Get the concept, but the end is near predictions of the last 50 years have been comical. Especially now with shale which they have known about for decades. So much oil out there not yet even discovered.
Quote from: warriorchick on February 03, 2020, 08:04:13 AM
I have become at least partially immune to crazily negative posts on Scoop (thank God), but saying that Markus sucks because he only put up 31 points after someone literally broke his face a few days earlier sets a new standard.
Who in the Sam hell said " Markus sucks"???
If pointing out that he's hurt and it will likely limit his game and his ability to take over if the rest of the team is struggling is hating on him then you people are too sensitive.
I don't think it would be smart or safe to have Markus driving to the hoop when he's still dealing with his injury.
The X game showed others can pick up some of the scoring load and they should.
If anything the post was an indictment of the other guys who don't consistently step up.
Others got the point but some it seems chose not to.
If people think Marquette is going to do anything this year by repeating the approach from last year, that's the definition of crazy.
Other guys need to contribute every game, so Markus can be fresh and healthy for post season play.
For that to happen, the team has to get out of this Peak Markus mindset.
Markus would almost literally leave his heart on the floor to win and has at times. Should that be necessary as often as it has been in the past??
The silver lining to the injury is that it may force the team to move away from relying so heavily on Markus.
What a dumb, crazy, hateful thought.
The criticism of your initial post is that it comes after one game. A game where his stats weren't significant different than the most recent Butler and St. John's games. So there isn't even evidence that his injury would "likely limit" his game, much less change his approach to offense.
Quote from: Cheeks on February 03, 2020, 11:11:36 AM
Peak Oil has been proven to be a hoax thus far...as a son of a petroleum geologist / geophysicist it used to make him laugh. Get the concept, but the end is near predictions of the last 50 years have been comical. Especially now with shale which they have known about for decades. So much oil out there not yet even discovered.
Yeah, and just like Markus is still readily available, is using him so much and being so dependent on him really the best way to achieve sustainable success moving forward this season.??
Shouldn't Marquette be switching over to other sources of production??
Especially after the injury??
Markus hasn't shot 50%+ on 3's since his freshman year; he hasn't been Peak Markus in 3 years.
Quote from: baumu on February 03, 2020, 11:23:30 AM
Markus hasn't shot 50%+ on 3's since his freshman year; he hasn't been Peak Markus in 3 years.
How many games over 30 has he had??
How many in the high 20s??
How much responsibility has he carried bringing the ball up or initiating the offense, creating his own shot or others, as well as drawing fouls??
Marquette has been heavily dependent on Markus for a long time.
Quote from: baumu on February 03, 2020, 11:23:30 AM
Markus hasn't shot 50%+ on 3's since his freshman year; he hasn't been Peak Markus in 3 years.
Depends on how you define "Peak Markus". It certainly isn't by that stat alone.
Quote from: baumu on February 03, 2020, 11:23:30 AM
Markus hasn't shot 50%+ on 3's since his freshman year; he hasn't been Peak Markus in 3 years.
There was at least one thread discussing whether or not Markus would shoot 60% or better from 3-point range as a sophomore. Such pessimists. Why not 90%?
But as chickadee said, Markus has added so much to his game since he was a freshman - floaters, reverses, pull-ups, even some defense. He's is much more than a 3-point shooter, his role on the team has changed significantly, and the sheer volume of 3s he takes makes it impossible that his 3-pt % wouldn't go down quite a bit.
Sorry everyone, it was a tongue in cheek comment, just wanted to be as ridiculous as the OP
Quote from: warriorchick on February 03, 2020, 08:43:50 AM
The Big East has had 4 years to try to figure out how to stop Markus from scoring, and they have been unsuccessful. Teams double- and triple-team him and he still puts up an average of almost 30 points a game. The rest of his game has improved every year.
No, Markus has not peaked.
Markus is amazing, and has been amazing. No question.
The less obvious observation, at least to some, is that being expected to be amazing all the time is unrealistic. Add in a busted face, and those expectations become even more unrealistic, and quite frankly, unsustainable.
I was disappointed that Sacar, Brendan, and to a lesser extent Koby, didn't pick up more of the slack, and Markus was still required to do the lions share of the scoring in the DePaul game despite his condition. I basically gave them a pass due to possible fatigue from the X game, but the Butler game I expect better.
If people truly want post season success, Markus probably needs to step back a little and others need to step up more.
It's not necessarily a bad thing if Peak Markus is over.
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on February 03, 2020, 12:22:20 PM
Markus is amazing, and has been amazing. No question.
The less obvious observation, at least to some, is that being expected to be amazing all the time is unrealistic. Add in a busted face, and those expectations become even more unrealistic, and quite frankly, unsustainable.
I was disappointed that Sacar, Brendan, and to a lesser extent Koby, didn't pick up more of the slack, and Markus was still required to do the lions share of the scoring in the DePaul game despite his condition. I basically gave them a pass due to possible fatigue from the X game, but the Butler game I expect better.
If people truly want post season success, Markus probably needs to step back a little and others need to step up more.
It's not necessarily a bad thing if Peak Markus is over.
Peak Markus is a feature, not a bug.
Koby, Theo, Jayce, and Symir all had ORtg's over 100 per KenPom so they did a just fine job of "picking up the slack". Markus missed shots he normally hits within the flow of the offense, sometimes that happens.....nothing really to change ESPECIALLY on a single data point.
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on February 03, 2020, 11:22:31 AM
Shouldn't Marquette be switching over to other sources of production??
Yes. It's just like an assembly line. ::)
Quote from: baumu on February 03, 2020, 12:04:59 PM
Sorry everyone, it was a tongue in cheek comment, just wanted to be as ridiculous as the OP
Unfortunately, even the most ridiculous comments can't be assumed to be tongue in cheek. Not on Scoop.
Quote from: baumu on February 03, 2020, 12:04:59 PM
Sorry everyone, it was a tongue in cheek comment, just wanted to be as ridiculous as the OP
Don't be sorry. Thanks for not putting it in teal. Keeps the rest of us sharp.
Quote from: MU82 on February 03, 2020, 12:58:18 PM
Don't be sorry. Thanks for not putting it in teal. Keeps the rest of us sharp less dull.
Fixed
Quote from: mu03eng on February 03, 2020, 12:27:33 PM
Peak Markus is a feature, not a bug.
Koby, Theo, Jayce, and Symir all had ORtg's over 100 per KenPom so they did a just fine job of "picking up the slack". Markus missed shots he normally hits within the flow of the offense, sometimes that happens.....nothing really to change ESPECIALLY on a single data point.
I see the injury as an opportunity to balance the scoring load. I noted that it was a small sample size in the OP, and that is why I don't know if the team will proactively try to shift the load moving forward. I expected it to happen in the DePaul game, but to my dismay, the team looked about the same as before Markus got injured.
If Marquette barely beat the worst team in the conference at home, something needs to change. I think it will. I truly believe fatigue played a major factor in the DePaul game and I expect Sacar and Brendan, to come out on fire against Butler. Koby actually was a solid contributor in the DePaul game, and I expect that to continue moving forward. I don't expect Jayce to be as big of a factor moving forward, but who knows.
It may be only one data point but it could be the beginning of a trend away from Peak Markus, and I think that would be the best thing for Markus and the teams long term success. Especially in the NCAA tournament, IF Marquette makes it.
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on February 03, 2020, 01:02:45 PM
I see the injury as an opportunity to balance the scoring load. I noted that it was a small sample size in the OP, and that is why I don't know if the team will proactively try to shift the load moving forward. I expected it to happen in the DePaul game, but to my dismay, the team looked about the same as before Markus got injured.
If Marquette barely beat the worst team in the conference at home, something needs to change. I think it will. I truly believe fatigue played a major factor in the DePaul game and I expect Sacar and Brendan, to come out on fire against Butler. Koby actually was a solid contributor in the DePaul game, and I expect that to continue moving forward. I don't expect Jayce to be as big of a factor moving forward, but who knows.
It may be only one data point but it could be the beginning of a trend away from Peak Markus, and I think that would be the best thing for Markus and the teams long term success. Especially in the NCAA tournament, IF Marquette makes it.
Again, it is a feature not a bug. Wojo's entire offensive strategy is built on Markus being a high usage guy, if nothing else it opens up for other guys and if Sacar and Brendan hit at the season long clips against DePaul this isn't even a debate. Wojo isn't (nor should he) going to change his entire offensive strategy now.
And if you don't think MU is going to make the tournament at this point, I don't know what to tell you. MU can go 3-5 down the stretch and not even be on the bubble. Barring some sort of disaster or injury they aren't going 3-5 down the stretch.
Also if you think DePaul is the worst team in the league Georgetown and St John's would like to have a word. Hell DePaul took Seton Hall to the wire, should Willard restructure his offense to de-emphasize Myles Powell because of that??
The injury isn't going to change anything. It didn't on Saturday. Why would it when he is likely more healthy next Sunday?
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on February 03, 2020, 01:02:45 PM
I see the injury as an opportunity to balance the scoring load. I noted that it was a small sample size in the OP, and that is why I don't know if the team will proactively try to shift the load moving forward. I expected it to happen in the DePaul game, but to my dismay, the team looked about the same as before Markus got injured.
If Marquette barely beat the worst team in the conference at home, something needs to change. I think it will. I truly believe fatigue played a major factor in the DePaul game and I expect Sacar and Brendan, to come out on fire against Butler. Koby actually was a solid contributor in the DePaul game, and I expect that to continue moving forward. I don't expect Jayce to be as big of a factor moving forward, but who knows.
It may be only one data point but it could be the beginning of a trend away from Peak Markus, and I think that would be the best thing for Markus and the teams long term success. Especially in the NCAA tournament, IF Marquette makes it.
25 times a day of word salad like this iteration. A better use of time must surely be available.
Markus is a thoroughbred. Wojo will jockey that $hit into the ground for the next seven weeks. Sit back and enjoy.
Quote from: mu03eng on February 03, 2020, 01:19:55 PM
Again, it is a feature not a bug. Wojo's entire offensive strategy is built on Markus being a high usage guy, if nothing else it opens up for other guys and if Sacar and Brendan hit at the season long clips against DePaul this isn't even a debate. Wojo isn't (nor should he) going to change his entire offensive strategy now.
And if you don't think MU is going to make the tournament at this point, I don't know what to tell you. MU can go 3-5 down the stretch and not even be on the bubble. Barring some sort of disaster or injury they aren't going 3-5 down the stretch.
Also if you think DePaul is the worst team in the league Georgetown and St John's would like to have a word. Hell DePaul took Seton Hall to the wire, should Willard restructure his offense to de-emphasize Myles Powell because of that??
I know its a feature, not a bug, and even when Markus is 100% it has its drawbacks.
This injury just provides an opportunity to tap into some of the emerging talent that showed itself in the X game. I'm not suggesting Markus won't still be an important part of the offense, just less so.
If the offense is going to evolve, now is the perfect time. Koby seems to be back, Sacar was amazing @ X, Brendan is so close, and the other players seem to know their roles.
I actually think this is what Wojo and Markus have been waiting for. It's unfortunate it took a fractured nose to get others to fully step up, but it is what it is.
By the way, the DePaul comments were snark aimed at the people who called them that before the last game, and declared that Marquette "should" beat them despite Markus' unknown status and the team just having played in a 2OT game on the road. I have respect for every team in the conference.
That same respect precludes me from jumping to conclusions about how the season will end.
Just like my respect for Wojo and the players precluded me from declaring the season was over when Marquette was 1-3 in conference.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on February 03, 2020, 01:28:34 PM
25 times a day of word salad like this iteration. A better use of time must surely be available.
Markus is a thoroughbred. Wojo will jockey that $hit into the ground for the next seven weeks. Sit back and enjoy.
Just like last year aina??
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on February 03, 2020, 01:59:02 PM
Just like last year aina??
(https://media.giphy.com/media/CgRElaBOG20Pm/giphy.gif)
I highly doubt we've seen the end of peak Markus.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on February 03, 2020, 02:26:17 PM
I highly doubt we've seen the end of peak Markus.
I kinda hope you're right, and at the same time, I kinda hope you're wrong.
Legend has it that Markus might've peaked in the 10th grade...
Hopefully for his sake he peaks at the right time and rides MU to a deep tourney run, just so that he can slide into more scoopers top 10 all time lists!
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on February 03, 2020, 01:57:15 PM
I know its a feature, not a bug.
This injury just provides an opportunity to tap into some of the emerging talent that showed itself in the X game. I'm not suggesting Markus won't still be an important part of the offense, just less so.
If the offense is going to evolve, now is the perfect time. Koby seems to be back, Sacar was amazing @ X, Brendan is so close, and the other players seem to know their roles.
I actually think this is what Wojo and Markus have been waiting for. It's unfortunate it took a fractured nose to get others to fully step up, but it is what it is.
These first thought is completely incompatible with the rest of the thoughts. You can't(well you can, but you'd be wrong) think that the offense is built around Markus being a high usage player AND that they've been waiting for other players to emerge so that the offense isn't about Markus as a high usage player.
Besides:
-Sacar has had an ORtg on KenPom of 100 or greater in 11 of the games played and greater than 90 in 4 more....it's not like he just emerged
-Koby has had an ORtg on KenPom of 100 or greater in 11 of the games played and greater than 90 in 2 more....it's not like he just emerged
-Brendan has had an ORtg on KenPom of 100 or greater in 10 of the games played and greater than 90 in 2 more
Lastly, and most importantly, while Markus's usage has held steady his contribution in terms of %points per game has been trending downward since conference season started with the only outlier being the Georgetown game. So the other players are stepping up per se already but it's not because they are changing the offense.
Feature, not a bug.
Quote from: warriorchick on February 03, 2020, 09:31:17 AM
He is not wrong.
At times we deserve Wojo leaving, winning a few natties somewhere and us becoming SLU.
Our entitlement is off the charts sometimes.
Quote from: mu03eng on February 03, 2020, 02:47:30 PM
These first thought is completely incompatible with the rest of the thoughts. You can't(well you can, but you'd be wrong) think that the offense is built around Markus being a high usage player AND that they've been waiting for other players to emerge so that the offense isn't about Markus as a high usage player.
Besides:
-Sacar has had an ORtg on KenPom of 100 or greater in 11 of the games played and greater than 90 in 4 more....it's not like he just emerged
-Koby has had an ORtg on KenPom of 100 or greater in 11 of the games played and greater than 90 in 2 more....it's not like he just emerged
-Brendan has had an ORtg on KenPom of 100 or greater in 10 of the games played and greater than 90 in 2 more
Lastly, and most importantly, while Markus's usage has held steady his contribution in terms of %points per game has been trending downward since conference season started with the only outlier being the Georgetown game. So the other players are stepping up per se already but it's not because they are changing the offense.
Feature, not a bug.
I guess it would be easier for you to understand if you asked yourself why it was a feature in the first place.
I believe it ended up being a feature because there were no other options. Especially at the guard position. Even the wings were not great at creating their own shot, and let's not even talk about the post.
That has changed, as Koby seems to be playing at a high level and Sacar has elevated his game.
If you believe Koby and Sacar have consistently played like they did in the X game, I won't try to tell you otherwise.
Markus is averaging nearly 30pts a game with high usage. I didn't think it was sustainable or desirable before the injury, and I don't think it is post injury.
If Markus got to a point where he was averaging around 20pts per game with a higher shooting percentage, and Koby and Sacar did likewise, that would be far more sustainable, and would hopefully keep everybody fresh for the postseason.
I think Markus being injured may be the catalyst for that to happen, because I don't think he will be driving in the lane as much.
The offense won't change, per se, just players usage.
With the OP being as stupid as it is how can one expect the next 4 pages of posts to have one iota of intelligence?!
Actually Mueng03's was pretty good.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on February 03, 2020, 03:36:02 PM
With the OP being as stupid as it is how can one expect the next 4 pages of posts to have one iota of intelligence?!
Actually Mueng03's was pretty good.
So you think Markus averaging 30pts per game will and should continue despite his injury and regardless of it??
Do you think it's sustainable through the rest of the conference schedule and post season play??
If the team doesn't move away from relying so heavily on Markus in the Butler game, and continues leaning on him for the rest of the Conference schedule, the end of this season may well look like the end of last season.
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on February 03, 2020, 04:23:04 PM
So you think Markus averaging 30pts per game will and should continue despite his injury and regardless of it??
Do you think it's sustainable through the rest of the conference schedule and post season play??
If the team doesn't move away from relying so heavily on Markus in the Butler game, and continues leaning on him for the rest of the Conference schedule, the end of this season may well look like the end of last season.
If its and buts were candy and nuts
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on February 03, 2020, 04:24:03 PM
If its and buts were candy and nuts
Ohhhhh, so this is the kind of intelligent post that was missing from earlier in the thread.
Got it.
Im still waiting for an Intelligent post in this thread, it will be the first ! ! ! 8-)
Quote from: guzica on February 03, 2020, 04:46:29 PM
Im still waiting for an Intelligent post in this thread, it will be the first ! ! ! 8-)
It actually might have been too complicated for some scoopers.
How's this??
Will Markus break 35 the rest of the regular season and post season??
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on February 03, 2020, 04:59:13 PM
It actually might have been too complicated for some scoopers.
How's this??
Will Markus break 35 the rest of the regular season and post season??
Yes and still won't be unanimous for SOTG
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on February 03, 2020, 04:59:13 PM
It actually might have been too complicated for some scoopers.
How's this??
Will Markus break 35 the rest of the regular season and post season??
Yes 4 or more times.
He will also break 40 and 50 again before the season wraps up
Quote from: DoctorV on February 03, 2020, 06:56:06 PM
Yes 4 or more times.
He will also break 40 and 50 again before the season wraps up
This
Quote from: DoctorV on February 03, 2020, 02:40:16 PM
Legend has it that Markus might've peaked in the 10th grade...
Hopefully for his sake he peaks at the right time and rides MU to a deep tourney run, just so that he can slide into more scoopers top 10 all time lists!
That's about the time one's sense of taste (as in taste buds) peaks.
Markus is shooting under 33% from deep in conference play.. however, he's getting to the line a sh1t ton and despite an eFG% of just 48% in BEast games, he's rockin a 110 ORtg while at a 40% usage. Conference turnover rate has dwindled down to 12% and he's at 14.4% for the season (18.4% was his prior year rate).
Just amazing.
#M2N
Markus has been under 100 in ortg in only 3 of our 10 conference games......and 2 of those were 96 and 97.
Quote from: Jay Bee on February 03, 2020, 07:09:24 PM
Markus is shooting under 33% from deep in conference play.. however, he's getting to the line a sh1t ton and despite an eFG% of just 48% in BEast games, he's rockin a 110 ORtg while at a 40% usage. Conference turnover rate has dwindled down to 12% and he's at 14.4% for the season (18.4% was his prior year rate).
Just amazing.
#M2N
Markus was amazing last year as well, until the wear and tear of constantly being amazing wore him down.
I really don't want to see a repeat of last year.
Unfortunately, it seems to be unfolding in a similar fashion.
I thought the X game might have been a turning point, but Markus still had to carry the scoring load in the DePaul game.
I'm chalking that up to fatigue, and I expect the scoring to be more evenly distributed between Markus, Sacar, Koby, and Brendan in the Butler game.
I was pleasantly surprised by Jayce and Symirs contributions against DePaul. Jamal also played some nice defense, grabbed 3 boards and hit a big 3 in just 13 minutes of play. I expect offensive contributions from those three to be important in the Butler game as well. I expect Theo and Greg to give some important minutes but I'm not expecting much offensively.
Everybody except Markus, Theo, and Greg should be near 100% for the Butler game, and all should be well rested. We should get a good idea what the offense will look like going forward. If it's still Peak Markus, I predict another winless postseason.