MUScoop

Half the BE season is in the books. Despite the rollercoaster and the disappointment that we were tantalizingly close to being 7-2, I think most people would have said 5-4 at the break is about where we thought we would be (most people probably switch the prov loss and X win and I guess I'd rather have the win on the road).

The back-half schedule seems favorable. Other than @V, every game seems like we should have a shot (and even @V, who knows!). Hold serve against the bottom at home and get 2 of Creighton, Butler or SH on our court and we're 9-9 and dancing. Seems very doable. Hold home across the board and/or steal another of the very gettable games on the road (@dep, @sju, @prov) and we're 10-8. Do both of those things and 11-7 isn't a complete stretch of the imagine.

It really seems this team could finish anywhere between 12-6 and 7-11 depending on how it all breaks. I'm slightly on the sunny side. 10-8.

Shudder, or we could collapse but that can't happen twice can it?

9-9 or 10-8.

10-8, could see 11-7 with some luck but we're pretty banged up

Let's hope that last night was Marquette's turning point for the rest of the season. Seton Hall actually became a better team when they had to play without Powell for a while. As anxious as I am about Markus returning for the next game, our team became stronger and more confident for having to play without him.

I voted 11-7.

I think Creighton had 2 things going for them in the blowout vs. Marquette besides home court- A surprise game plan but most of all, the revenge factor from last year's OT loss in Omaha. Our home games vs. Creighton and Butler (both with revenge factors) should not scare us too much. A win vs. Seton Hall would really help us move up seed a line or 2. Doable, but really tough. I agree that beating Villanova on the road is a very tall order. I think that they have lost only 4 home conference games in the "new" Big East's 7 years. I'm nervous about our ice skating date with Providence.

Well .. MU is a perfect 4-0 versus bottom half BE teams and have 4 games left: 2 home, 2 away.  Let's say MU wins 3 of those.


MU is 1-4 vs the top half.  5 left, 3 home, 2 away.  MU could win 2-3 of those remaining.


So .. 10-8 would be a realistic expectation.  11 is possible.

I could see 9-9 easily. And I think that's where we will end up.

I don't see it as a Meh moment though. I see it as this team is banged up, and we blew a few we should have gotten early. I do think we maybe surprise a team or Two in the NCAA tourney.

11-7.  I want to choose Mike Deane's new avatar.

Im Standing by my previous prediction , 12-6 ! ! !   8-)

I voted 10-8, by the looks of it, I'm a pessimist.

We have five home games - I say we go 4-1 with a loss to Hall

We have four road games - I say we go 1-3 with a win at SJU or DePaul.

10-8.

Quote from: Scooter22 on January 30, 2020, 09:09:53 AM
I voted 10-8, by the looks of it, I'm a pessimist.

Yeah I thought 10-8 was slightly optimistic. I don't think either 7-11 or 12-6 is likely, but:

W vs Depaul, L vs Butler, L @Nova, L vs Creighton, L @ Prov, W vs Gtown, L vs Hall, L @ DePaul, L @ SJU

Seems just as likely as

W vs Depaul, W vs Butler, L @Nova, W vs Creighton, W @ Prov, W vs Gtown, L vs Hall, W @ DePaul, W @ SJU 

or

W vs Depaul, W vs Butler, L @Nova, W vs Creighton, L @ Prov, W vs Gtown, W vs Hall, W @ DePaul, W @ SJU

But 0 votes for the former and 7 for the latter so far

Guess everyone feeling good after the W and the nojos staying away!

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on January 30, 2020, 09:14:17 AM
We have five home games - I say we go 4-1 with a loss to Hall

We have four road games - I say we go 1-3 with a win at SJU or DePaul.

10-8.

Yeah.... I'm thinking we take both the SJ and DePaul road games but your caution is certainly justified. I'm not overly confident about winning both but believe our chances are fairly good.

We can beat anyone we can lose to anyone

1SE

This Nojo voted 9-9.

10-8.  Better than I expected without the Hausers, and in a tougher Big East. 

Quote from: 1SE on January 30, 2020, 09:18:56 AM
Guess everyone feeling good after the W and the nojos staying away!

I'm "feeling good" after winning 4 out of 5 ... especially given that our 3-game losing streak near the start of the conference season theoretically meant that we would finish in last place because our coach sucks, our All-American sucks, all of his teammates suck, the incoming recruits will suck and there was no reason to live. At that point, 1-17 seemed a mortal lock.

MU has gotten smoked twice on the road in conference to two very good teams.   Will probably lose to Villanova, too.   Of the other 8 games, 5 are at home and the three road games are SJU, PU, and DePaul.    MU wins 6 out of those 8 and gets to 11-7.

Tower, I like how you think

I said 10-8.  But when I go game by game I have a hard time choosing 4 more losses. 

Should be be Losses: @ Nova

Should be wins: vs. Depaul, vs, Creighton, vs. Gtown

Toss-ups but lean MU: vs. Butler, @Depaul, @SJU, @PC

True toss-ups: vs. Seton Hall


I think we lose one of @Depaul, @SJU, @ PC.  I think we lose @Nova.  Maybe Hall takes us again.  But that's still 11-7.  Sticking with 10-8 to be safe, but 11-7 should be very much possible. 

DePaul Saturday with Markus status in limbo is the huge one

Win that and we are 6-4 and I struggle to see how we don't find a way to at least finish 3-5 from there.

Beat DePaul. Get rested and play Butler at home and get that revenge and it's 7-4.

House money vs Nova and then a road game with providence. Even if we lose both that's 7-6 with a final 5 games that sets up really solid to go 3-2.

Get these next  two at home and we are set up real well

Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on January 30, 2020, 09:31:44 AM
We can beat anyone we can lose to anyone

What form of devilry is this!?!?!

Aren't most of the above expectations much higher than what was predicted when the H-boys left.

I'm in at 10-8.

The OP knows this team is short handed and beat up. Talk about setting people up for failure.

A poll like this is pointless unless we know the status of Markus and Greg.

Of course we're not allowed to consider those factors because they would be excuses.

I'll vote when I have all the relevant information to make an informed guess.

Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on January 30, 2020, 01:34:48 PM

The OP knows this team is short handed and beat up. Talk about setting people up for failure.

A poll like this is pointless unless we know the status of Markus and Greg.

Of course we're not allowed to consider those factors because they would be excuses.

I'll vote when I have all the relevant information to make an informed guess.

So the 142 people who voted as of this reply are all fools and you are the only one here intelligent enough to withhold your precious vote. Got it!

If Markus has a long term absence, obviously all predictions are out the window.

Quote from: tower912 on January 30, 2020, 03:16:03 PM
If Markus has a long term absence, obviously all predictions are out the window.

Do we have any reason to believe that will be the case?  Worst case, he has a broken nose and a concussion and sits Saturday.  Imagine he would be fine by the vs. Butler game with a full 10 days off. 

Seeing Wojo said after the game that it was not concussion related and simply that they couldn't stop the bleeding, I think Markus will be fine.

GE was doing pregame shooting drills at what appeared to be full speed.  Have to think he will be back for Butler.

Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 30, 2020, 03:14:39 PM
So the 142 people who voted as of this reply are all fools and you are the only one here intelligent enough to withhold your precious vote. Got it!

If you think that was my point then I know at least one of the 142 is.

Ever the optimist, I chose 11-7.

I don't mind if Markus misses the dePaul game - it means the other guys will focus and I believe they are more than good enough to beat dePaul.

Then, Markus returns and his magic propels MU to the remaining wins.  MU will lose at Nova and at St. Johns.

Quote from: tower912 on January 30, 2020, 03:16:03 PM
If Markus has a long term absence, obviously all predictions are out the window.

That's right ... because the cancer will have been cured, and we won't lose again this season!

If we don't win tomorrow, we'll end the season worse than 98.8% of us (those that responded) thought we would at the halfway point.

I'm firmly in the camp that Wojo should be coaching to save his job tomorrow. If he loses have the bus waiting to take him to the airport back to Raleigh-Durham. Give the reins to Stan, see what he can do in the BET and NCAA and then have a search ready to go the moment the season is over.

At the very least, Wojo d*mn well better unholy carnal knowledge ACT like his is coaching to save his job.

Quote from: 1SE on March 06, 2020, 02:46:29 AM
If we don't win tomorrow, we'll end the season worse than 98.8% of us (those that responded) thought we would at the halfway point.

I'm firmly in the camp that Wojo should be coaching to save his job tomorrow. If he loses have the bus waiting to take him to the airport back to Raleigh-Durham. Give the reins to Stan, see what he can do in the BET and NCAA and then have a search ready to go the moment the season is over.

At the very least, Wojo d*mn well better unholy carnal knowledge ACT like his is coaching to save his job.

He's already coached his way out of a job. I don't think it can even be argued (although amazingly he still has his defenders). Beating a bad SJ team does nothing to change that. At this point in order to coach his way back into a job he needs to win a handful games starting tomorrow and ending with at least a 2nd weekend NCAA appearance.

Quote from: NickelDimer on March 06, 2020, 10:27:37 AM
He's already coached his way out of a job.

Has he though? This is a results based business. When the dust settles his results over the last four years are going to be: NCAA, NIT, NCAA, NCAA. You can go back 20+ years and literally never find an example of a coach with those last four year results or better getting fired. We can argue until we are blue in the face about whether or not those results are good but unless you think Marquette should do something that no other program would do, I don't think we can say that he has done a fireable job.

The problem we have is not the results, it's the how. Two consecutive late season collapses that dropped us from a potential 3 seed/potential 4 seed to a 5 seed/7-10 seed sandwiching a locker room issue that led to two of the best players transferring. Those are red flags that cannot be ignored...but the results say he's earned another year. Scholl is not in an easy position.

Quote from: TAMU Garcia on March 06, 2020, 12:44:21 PM
Has he though? This is a results based business. When the dust settles his results over the last four years are going to be: NCAA, NIT, NCAA, NCAA. You can go back 20+ years and literally never find an example of a coach with those last four year results or better getting fired. We can argue until we are blue in the face about whether or not those results are good but unless you think Marquette should do something that no other program would do, I don't think we can say that he has done a fireable job.

The problem we have is not the results, it's the how. Two consecutive late season collapses that dropped us from a potential 3 seed/potential 4 seed to a 5 seed/7-10 seed sandwiching a locker room issue that led to two of the best players transferring. Those are red flags that cannot be ignored...but the results say he's earned another year. Scholl is not in an easy position.

I think he has, yes. I think last year was our ceiling with Wojo and it brought us a late season collapse, a first round NCAA drubbing (that had a lot to do with coaching, or lack of) and the departure of two core players. I've never been a fan but was willing to give him his chance to succeed. I haven't seen anything from him to believe we'll achieve real success under him.

Quote from: NickelDimer on March 06, 2020, 12:47:23 PM
I think he has, yes. I think last year was our ceiling with Wojo and it brought us a late season collapse, a first round NCAA drubbing (that had a lot to do with coaching, or lack of) and the departure of two core players. I've never been a fan but was willing to give him his chance to succeed. I haven't seen anything from him to believe we'll achieve real success under him.

There's a difference though between "I think he's hit his ceiling and won't get better" and "he's done a bad enough job to get fired." One is a prediction, the other is based on results. I think both need to happen before there's any consideration of poleaxing.

Rick Barnes made the NCAA tournament 16 times during his 17 seasons at Texas. He led the Longhorns to 19 tourney wins, a Final Four, 2 Elite Eight and 2 Sweet 16 appearances. Also, 3 Big 12 championships.

For comparison, Marquette made the NCAA tournament 10 times during the same period -- with 13 tourney wins, a Final Four, an Elite Eight and 2 Sweet 16 appearances. Also, 2 conference championships (1 in Conference USA and 1 in the Big East).

In other words, Barnes delivered better results than MU's post-Al golden era. And he got fired.

That's not a prediction. Additionally, it's fair to question the wisdom of that decision. Since firing Barnes, Texas hasn't won an NCAA game and could miss the tournament altogether for the 3rd time in 5 seasons.

You just never know.

Quote from: TAMU Garcia on March 06, 2020, 01:09:58 PM
There's a difference though between "I think he's hit his ceiling and won't get better" and "he's done a bad enough job to get fired." One is a prediction, the other is based on results. I think both need to happen before there's any consideration of poleaxing.

Not really. Both are opinions. There's no threshold for getting fired or keeping your job. In my opinion he's done a poor enough job to warrant firing. Or another way of saying it; he hasn't done enough to earn keeping his job. Either way I'm counting the days until he's gone whether it's this year or next, etc.

Quote from: Marcus92 on March 06, 2020, 01:15:04 PM
Rick Barnes made the NCAA tournament 16 times during his 17 seasons at Texas. He led the Longhorns to 19 tourney wins, a Final Four, 2 Elite Eight and 2 Sweet 16 appearances. Also, 3 Big 12 championships.

For comparison, Marquette made the NCAA tournament 10 times during the same period -- with 13 tourney wins, a Final Four, an Elite Eight and 2 Sweet 16 appearances. Also, 2 conference championships (1 in Conference USA and 1 in the Big East).

In other words, Barnes delivered better results than MU's post-Al golden era. And he got fired.

That's not a prediction. Additionally, it's fair to question the wisdom of that decision. Since firing Barnes, Texas hasn't won an NCAA game and could miss the tournament altogether for the 3rd time in 5 seasons.

You just never know.

Yes, Barnes is the one example of a non-blue blood firing a coach after making the NCAA. And even his last four years were: NCAA, CBI, NCAA, NCAA.

Quote from: NickelDimer on March 06, 2020, 01:19:31 PM
Not really. Both are opinions. There's no threshold for getting fired or keeping your job. In my opinion he's done a poor enough job to warrant firing. Or another way of saying it; he hasn't done enough to earn keeping his job. Either way I'm counting the days until he's gone whether it's this year or next, etc.

Yes both are opinions. But one is impossible to "prove" one way or the other. No one knows what will happen in the future. For example, I'm sure no one expected Majerus to become a HOFer after his time at MU but he did. The other you can compare Wojo's record to other coaches who got fired. Wojo's record in the last 4 years (or last 3 or last 2 or last 1) is better than any other besides maybe Barnes. So you can have the opinion that Wojo has done bad enough to be fired....but only if you expect MU to do something that no other program would do in the same situation.

And that's the ball game. 179/182 of us thought the season would finish better as of the conference midway point.

I'll say right now I was one of the two (8-10) votes.  I'm right more often than people here like to admit.