So the team seemed prepared and started strong on the road against a tough team.
Marquettes bigs got outplayed on both ends, and next years recruiting class addresses that weakness.
Markus has been allowed to showcase his offensive skills. This might help Marquette land Karim Mane and secure a top ten recruiting class.
Guys missed open shots and key free throws and the game was still within reach with 5 mins to go.
This post is in response to the negative posts appearing on scoop. It is intended to remind people that some good things are happening despite the doom and gloom some seem to thrive on.
Wojo had the team prepared, for a road game no less.
Wojo has addressed Marquettes lack of production from our bigs through his recruiting.
Wojo is attempting to address the departure of Markus Howard by enticing Karim Mane.
The team didn't stop fighting on the road but just couldn't hit shots.
This has been a public service announcement to promote a positive outlook on the future. You may return to your regular negativity now.
One-dimensional teams can look very good at times, UNTIL the opposition adjusts.
Next season will be the best one yet!
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on January 11, 2020, 06:27:00 PM
So the team seemed prepared and started strong on the road against a tough team.
Marquettes bigs got outplayed on both ends, and next years recruiting class addresses that weakness.
Markus has been allowed to showcase his offensive skills. This might help Marquette land Karim Mane and secure a top ten recruiting class.
Guys missed open shots and key free throws and the game was still within reach with 5 mins to go.
This post is in response to the negative posts appearing on scoop. It is intended to remind people that some good things are happening despite the doom and gloom some seem to thrive on.
Wojo had the team prepared, for a road game no less.
Wojo has addressed Marquettes lack of production from our bigs through his recruiting.
Wojo is attempting to address the departure of Markus Howard by enticing Karim Mane.
The team didn't stop fighting on the road but just couldn't hit shots.
This has been a public service announcement to promote a positive outlook on the future. You may return to your regular negativity now.
Great...so it's all seashells and balloons for you I guess. He had them ready for a road game...yet, they just had an inexcusable loss at home to Providence. You wanna say these are positive things, that's fine, but you also have to acknowledge the negatives that have happened under him. That's going to take awhile, because there are TONS of them.
Quote from: Afroman on January 11, 2020, 06:41:08 PM
Next season will be the best one yet!
Next season start the freshmen every game. It really won't matter.
How soon you all forget we beat Central Arkansas by 48 this year. Historic achievement that we can hang our hats on
Great thread. Getting out to an early lead was all the moral victory we needed. Blue ribbons for all!
Quote from: 94Warrior on January 11, 2020, 06:33:15 PM
One-dimensional teams can look very good at times, UNTIL the opposition adjusts.
Many have cited one of Wojos weaknesses as failing to have the team prepared and slow starts to games.
There was improvement today. On the road. That is a step forward
This team is still revamping after losing the Hausers. If Markus had left, and Sam and Joey had stayed, would Marquette be much better at this point?
Also..... Injuries to Theo, Koby, Jayce, and Greg aren't helping.
Yeah, I know, I know, excuses, excuses.
But seeing as another poster pointed out that SH was missing a player and suggested the score could have been worse, I feel justified in pointing it out.
This is the first time all year, I have been so down on this team. I thought we had a chance to win the BE - but I can't see it now for several reasons.
1. The one thing that bothers me the most is lack of hustle and fight. I thought one play today encapsulated it all, Powell stole the ball and raced down court. I don't remember if it was Koby or Sacar that challenged him and he missed the layup. The problem was that no other MU player decided to run down court. When the breakaway missed, there were only 2 SH players - who HAD raced down court to get the rebound and lay it in. That should have been a timeout, start throwing sh*t moment by Wojo. Instead, nothing.
2. I did not realize earlier in the year, just how bad our post players were. Not one is even a mild offensive threat. They simply give the other team more points by constantly putting them in the bonus early in each half. On defense, the blocks do not make up for the myriad of times they are out of position resulting in layups or dunks.
3. Good teams have other things to fall back on when not shooting well. This team has no fallback.
4. The transfers have all been huge disappointments - Ed, Jayce, Koby. None are any better than mere 8-10 minute bench players on a good team - at best.
5. Most of these problems fall at the feet of Wojo who hasn't shown that he can either make adjustments or get to the next gear.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 11, 2020, 06:45:09 PM
How soon you all forget we beat Central Arkansas by 48 this year. Historic achievement that we can hang our hats on
Any chance we can get them on this years schedule for 5 more games to pad our record?
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on January 11, 2020, 06:27:00 PM
So the team seemed prepared and started strong on the road against a tough team.
Marquettes bigs got outplayed on both ends, and next years recruiting class addresses that weakness.
Lather, rinse, repeat, repeat, repeat...
Quote from: Afroman on January 11, 2020, 06:41:08 PM
Next season will be the best one yet!
I've been saying it...I've been saying it...ain't I been saying it Miguel...
Quote from: muguru on January 11, 2020, 06:42:27 PM
Great...so it's all seashells and balloons for you I guess. He had them ready for a road game...yet, they just had an inexcusable loss at home to Providence. You wanna say these are positive things, that's fine, but you also have to acknowledge the negatives that have happened under him. That's going to take awhile, because there are TONS of them.
After the PC game I criticized Wojo for not having the team prepared. Yes I see having the team better prepared the next game as improvement. Especially on the road.
I don't exaggerate Wojos accomplishments and I don't minimize his failures.
I weigh both equally.
The balance was close enough that this incoming recruiting class tipped my opinion in favor of supporting another year.
If I included intangibles like the quality of his character, or how clean a program he ran it would only tip more in his favor.
My assessment of Wojos tenure is restricted to the teams on court performance year over year, exciting players, and recruiting. Thanks to this recruiting class he has my support.
yep, always next year. really no surprise we lost today. we suck and this program is crumbling apart. Thanks wojo and tools at the admin who hired him.
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on January 11, 2020, 06:50:54 PM
Many have cited one of Wojos weaknesses as failing to have the team prepared and slow starts to games.
There was improvement today. On the road. That is a step forward
This team is still revamping after losing the Hausers. If Markus had left, and Sam and Joey had stayed, would Marquette be much better at this point?
Also..... Injuries to Theo, Koby, Jayce, and Greg aren't helping.
Yeah, I know, I know, excuses, excuses.
But seeing as another poster pointed out that SH was missing a player and suggested the score could have been worse, I feel justified in pointing it out.
Sybil,
This is frickin year 6. Wojo damn well better know how to have the team ready. Step forward? After 5 plus years?
Quote from: Jockey on January 11, 2020, 07:01:44 PM
This is the first time all year, I have been so down on this team. I thought we had a chance to win the BE - but I can't see it now for several reasons.
1. The one thing that bothers me the most is lack of hustle and fight. I thought one play today encapsulated it all, Powell stole the ball and raced down court. I don't remember if it was Koby or Sacar that challenged him and he missed the layup. The problem was that no other MU player decided to run down court. When the breakaway missed, there were only 2 SH players - who HAD raced down court to get the rebound and lay it in. That should have been a timeout, start throwing sh*t moment by Wojo. Instead, nothing. Consistent effort is not there.
2. I did not realize earlier in the year, just how bad our post players were. Not one is even a mild offensive threat. They simply give the other team more points by constantly putting them in the bonus early in each half. On defense, the blocks do not make up for the myriad of times they are out of position resulting in layups or dunks. The 3 of them don't have a post move between them, defensively they can't defend without fouling, Jayce can rebound, Theo can block, Ed can ???
3. Good teams have other things to fall back on when not shooting well. This team has no fallback. Agree - one dimensional
4. The transfers have all been huge disappointments - Ed, Jayce, Koby. None are any better than mere 8-10 minute bench players on a good team - at best. Ed - Agree, Jayce - Not looking good, Koby - Production does not match NBA talent/i]
5. Most of these problems fall at the feet of Wojo who hasn't shown that he can either make adjustments or get to the next gear. True
Quote from: Jockey on January 11, 2020, 07:01:44 PM
This is the first time all year, I have been so down on this team. I thought we had a chance to win the BE - but I can't see it now for several reasons.
1. The one thing that bothers me the most is lack of hustle and fight. I thought one play today encapsulated it all, Powell stole the ball and raced down court. I don't remember if it was Koby or Sacar that challenged him and he missed the layup. The problem was that no other MU player decided to run down court. When the breakaway missed, there were only 2 SH players - who HAD raced down court to get the rebound and lay it in. That should have been a timeout, start throwing sh*t moment by Wojo. Instead, nothing.
2. I did not realize earlier in the year, just how bad our post players were. Not one is even a mild offensive threat. They simply give the other team more points by constantly putting them in the bonus early in each half. On defense, the blocks do not make up for the myriad of times they are out of position resulting in layups or dunks.
3. Good teams have other things to fall back on when not shooting well. This team has no fallback.
4. The transfers have all been huge disappointments - Ed, Jayce, Koby. None are any better than mere 8-10 minute bench players on a good team - at best.
5. Most of these problems fall at the feet of Wojo who hasn't shown that he can either make adjustments or get to the next gear.
The bigs should never have been expected to do much offensively this year. If Koby had fulfilled his promise, and Sacar and Brendan had picked up the scoring slack, the bigs could have soaked up fouls and the team would have probably been OK. This loss and the rest of the season is on those three.
They've done it at times this year, and that's the problem. Those three players lack of consistent offensive production.
IMHO
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on January 11, 2020, 07:22:56 PM
The big should never have been expected to do much offensively this year. If Koby had fulfilled his promise, and Sacar and Brendan had picked up the scoring slack, the bigs could have soaked up fouls and the team would have probably been OK. This loss and the rest of the season is on those three.
They've done it at times this year, and that's the problem. Those three players lack of consistent offensive production.
IMHO
So, if two players had lived up to promise then we are ok with no offensive production from another three? I guess you being positive means that twice a week you are soooooo close to winning Powerball!
This Seton Hall game was the worst MU offensively efficient game in five seasons going back to Wojo's first year. Brutally ugly.
We talked about if MU had a flying chance of replacing the Hausers' value add, it would have to be like the Moneyball A's...it would take a Village. Sacar, Bailey, Koby with the bench. MU's bench in the past three games have been outscored 85-21 and 77-15 for the last two games. Those three starters were a combined 6-24 today from the field.
Time to bounce back and man up. I hope Wojo has the answers.
Quote from: connie on January 11, 2020, 07:36:40 PM
So, if two players had lived up to promise then we are ok with no offensive production from another three? I guess you being positive means that twice a week you are soooooo close to winning Powerball!
I didn't say no offensive scoring, I said not much. The onus is on Koby, Sacar, and Brendan. In our better wins, one, two, or all three produced. There's a pattern. The rest of the team needs to get hustle baskets and provide spot scoring.
Blah blah blah.
Doesn't it get tiresome to have to rationalize and hunt and peck to find examples of "success" for a coach in the 6th season of his tenure?
Wojo had the guys ready to play a road game counts as a success? To me, a coach having his players ready to play is a basic requirement of his job. Anything less than that is a total failure.
I know what a successful program looks like. And this ain't it.
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on January 11, 2020, 07:10:25 PM
After the PC game I criticized Wojo for not having the team prepared. Yes I see having the team better prepared the next game as improvement. Especially on the road.
I don't exaggerate Wojos accomplishments and I don't minimize his failures.
I weigh both equally.
The balance was close enough that this incoming recruiting class tipped my opinion in favor of supporting another year.
If I included intangibles like the quality of his character, or how clean a program he ran it would only tip more in his favor.
My assessment of Wojos tenure is restricted to the teams on court performance year over year, exciting players, and recruiting. Thanks to this recruiting class he has my support.
So in your mind today is one of accomplishment for Wojo because (for the first half of the first half anyway) he had them prepared (I.e., making shots).
Wow.
Road ready - lost by 14 (line was 6), was never a threat to win the game.
But hey - that's great....
Quote from: PointWarrior on January 11, 2020, 08:20:25 PM
Road ready - lost by 14 (line was 6), was never a threat to win the game.
But hey - that's great....
But Wojo said the final score was deceiving! So we got that going for us anyway...
Look, it was a two-possession game (after McEwen's three) and we shot 19% from the field in the second half. So the score is a little bit deceiving.
Quote from: hairy worthen on January 11, 2020, 07:20:26 PM
Sybil,
This is frickin year 6. Wojo damn well better know how to have the team ready. Step forward? After 5 plus years?
People love to point out that the Hausers left and how important they were last year. I agree, they were, last year.
This is a new year and Wojo is having to retool the team. Sam and Joey averaged about 30 mins a game at their positions. That is a heck of a lot to replace.
This years guys don't have the chemistry that the brothers had and that takes time. I've seen flashes, like the Villanova game, and during the point swing in the PC game, but not often enough during all conference games.
If Wojo did have his top three scorers back from last year I would agree that the teams subpar performance to date was a serious indictment of his coaching. But he doesn't. I won't play the blame game with the Hausers as long as people don't act like their departure didn't create challenges for Wojo and the team. It did.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 11, 2020, 07:45:11 PM
Time to bounce back and man up. I hope Wojo has the answers.
This is year 6. It's obvious he doesn't.
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on January 11, 2020, 08:28:02 PM
People love to point out that the Hausers left and how important they were last year. I agree, they were, last year.
This is a new year and Wojo is having to retool the team. Sam and Joey averaged about 30 mins a game at their positions. That is a heck of a lot to replace.
This years guys don't have the chemistry that the brothers had and that takes time. I've seen flashes, like the Villanova game, and during the point swing in the PC game, but not often enough during all conference games.
If Wojo did have his top three scorers back from last year I would agree that the teams subpar performance to date was a serious indictment of his coaching. But he doesn't. I won't play the blame game with the Hausers as long as people don't act like their departure didn't create challenges for Wojo and the team. It did.
Your rationalization is comical. How does any of that have to do with having a team prepared. That's job one of any coach. I bet MU82 had his junior high girls team prepared.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 11, 2020, 08:12:43 PM
So in your mind today is one of accomplishment for Wojo because (for the first half of the first half anyway) he had them prepared (I.e., making shots).
Wow.
Unlike many on this board, I'll reserve my final assessment of Wojos accomplishments for this season until the season is over. My assessment of this one road game, was that he had them better prepared to start the game. A constant criticism from people, myself included, is about the team not being prepared at the start of games. Today it was. Should I rewrite history to suit you?
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on January 11, 2020, 08:41:24 PM
Unlike many on this board, I'll reserve my final assessment of Wojos accomplishments for this season until the season is over. My assessment of this one road game, was that he had them better prepared to start the game. A constant criticism from people, myself included, is about the team not being prepared at the start of games. Today it was. Should I rewrite history to suit you?
Wojo teams have usually started games very well. It's a matter of fm finishing those pesky ones off that they've always struggled with.
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on January 11, 2020, 08:41:24 PM
Unlike many on this board, I'll reserve my final assessment of Wojos accomplishments for this season until the season is over. My assessment of this one road game, was that he had them better prepared to start the game. A constant criticism from people, myself included, is about the team not being prepared at the start of games. Today it was. Should I rewrite history to suit you?
You are embarrassing yourself
Quote from: panda on January 11, 2020, 08:42:45 PM
Wojo teams have usually started games very well. It's a matter of fm finishing those pesky ones off that they've always struggled with.
I'm not sure there's necessarily been consistency about starting well or finishing poorly. The one thing that has been pretty consistent, this year especially, has been an inability to play 40 solid minutes of good (or less than bad) basketball. The USC game was pretty darn good start to finish, but outside of that, we've had some really ugly stretches in most of our games against high major opponents. I don't get it.
Whoa & Muta, dream on. I hate to say it but this is not a good team.
Another annoying thing is that after the 5-min. mark it was apparent that Markus had made his last pass. He was thinking 30, 30, and only 30. It was the first time I had seen that in him so obviously and it didn't give me a good feeling.
Quote from: skianth16 on January 11, 2020, 09:38:58 PM
I'm not sure there's necessarily been consistency about starting well or finishing poorly. The one thing that has been pretty consistent, this year especially, has been an inability to play 40 solid minutes of good (or less than bad) basketball. The USC game was pretty darn good start to finish, but outside of that, we've had some really ugly stretches in most of our games against high major opponents. I don't get it.
I agree w your point re this season. I was talking about the inability to finish games throughout the Wojo era.
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on January 11, 2020, 08:41:24 PM
Unlike many on this board, I'll reserve my final assessment of Wojos accomplishments for this season until the season is over. My assessment of this one road game, was that he had them better prepared to start the game. A constant criticism from people, myself included, is about the team not being prepared at the start of games. Today it was. Should I rewrite history to suit you?
Great. We look forward to hearing your assessment at the seasons end. Until then, please feel free to take a hiatus. Your posts only inspire more criticism of Wojo.
Quote from: hairy worthen on January 11, 2020, 08:35:12 PM
Your rationalization is comical. How does any of that have to do with having a team prepared. That's job one of any coach. I bet MU82 had his junior high girls team prepared.
Thought it was obvious. Preparing a veteran team that is used to playing together is not the same as trying to prepare a less experienced team whose players are learning their roles, adjusting to increased minutes, getting comfortable with their teammates, etc.
So yeah, preparing this years team for a strong start on the road against a tough team was an accomplishment. The next step is consistency and finishing games.
This is not a team with a lot of experience in big east play at several key positions. If they had top shelf talent some of that could be overcome.
Why do yo think many of us cite the incoming class as a reason to keep Wojo?
If Marquette gets Mane to join next years class many of the problems caused by lack of experience will be overcome by talent. IMHO
This leads back to my belief that players are more important than coaches. I'll take Michael Jordan over Phil Jackson any day of the week.
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on January 11, 2020, 06:27:00 PM
So the team seemed prepared and started strong on the road against a tough team.
Marquettes bigs got outplayed on both ends, and next years recruiting class addresses that weakness.
Markus has been allowed to showcase his offensive skills. This might help Marquette land Karim Mane and secure a top ten recruiting class.
Guys missed open shots and key free throws and the game was still within reach with 5 mins to go.
This post is in response to the negative posts appearing on scoop. It is intended to remind people that some good things are happening despite the doom and gloom some seem to thrive on.
Wojo had the team prepared, for a road game no less.
Wojo has addressed Marquettes lack of production from our bigs through his recruiting.
Wojo is attempting to address the departure of Markus Howard by enticing Karim Mane.
The team didn't stop fighting on the road but just couldn't hit shots.
This has been a public service announcement to promote a positive outlook on the future. You may return to your regular negativity now.
We lost by double digits. Again. We are 1-3 in conference. Despite your attempts to defend the pathetic coaching, the fact remains:. You are what your record says you are.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on January 11, 2020, 09:53:47 PM
Whoa & Muta, dream on. I hate to say it but this is not a good team.
Another annoying thing is that after the 5-min. mark it was apparent that Markus had made his last pass. He was thinking 30, 30, and only 30. It was the first time I had seen that in him so obviously and it didn't give me a good feeling.
Maybe after watching the 3 frontcourt starters go 3-21, he decided he had a better chance of making more than they did.
We lost because MH didn't shoot enough - not because he took too many shots.
Quote from: panda on January 11, 2020, 08:42:45 PM
Wojo teams have usually started games very well. It's a matter of fm finishing those pesky ones off that they've always struggled with.
Someone else posted that Wojos record in close games is very good.
Falling behind early seems to lead to Markus trying to get it back with threes. When it works it's spectacular, when it doesn't it can lead to blowouts.
Regardless, this team is still adjusting after losing the Hausers. It's gonna take a minute.
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on January 11, 2020, 11:21:02 PM
Regardless, this team is still adjusting after losing the Hausers. It's gonna take a minute.
Half a season? Plus a foreign tour?
It's been a lot of minutes. And it's clear why they didn't want to stick around.
I want to go back to touch on my comment about lack of toughness. I don't wanna be the guy who says it was better the way Al did it or the way it was done 40+ years ago.
But there was a very definite reason why Al recruited NYC and Chicago. He wanted the tough city kids who learned their game on the playgrounds. Now we have suburb type guys. Not tough enough. Not willing to do the dirty work. Just play that AAU ball and run up and down the court and play the easy defense with your arms instead of your feet.
I think the complete lack of toughness is the biggest failing of the teams under Wojo.
Quote from: skianth16 on January 11, 2020, 09:38:58 PM
I'm not sure there's necessarily been consistency about starting well or finishing poorly. The one thing that has been pretty consistent, this year especially, has been an inability to play 40 solid minutes of good (or less than bad) basketball. The USC game was pretty darn good start to finish, but outside of that, we've had some really ugly stretches in most of our games against high major opponents. I don't get it.
The Villanova game was pretty good start to finish, but I agree with your point. I just think falling behind early leads to bad Markus at times which can lead to blowouts. If we can start out strong consistently that's a start. I'm not greedy.
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on January 11, 2020, 11:08:31 PM
Thought it was obvious. Preparing a veteran team that is used to playing together is not the same as trying to prepare a less experienced team whose players are learning their roles, adjusting to increased minutes, getting comfortable with their teammates, etc.
So yeah, preparing this years team for a strong start on the road against a tough team was an accomplishment. The next step is consistency and finishing games.
You can't be serious calling this a less experienced team. Our lineup has 3 5th year seniors (!!!), a senior All American/NPOY candidate, a redshirt junior, 2 juniors, a 22 year old sophomore, a redshirt sophomore, and one freshman. We are as old and experienced as you'll find in college hoops.
Awful, horrible, no good take.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 11, 2020, 11:05:15 PM
Great. We look forward to hearing your assessment at the seasons end. Until then, please feel free to take a hiatus. Your posts only inspire more criticism of Wojo.
Is that even possible?
Quote from: Jockey on January 11, 2020, 11:30:18 PM
I want to go back to touch on my comment about lack of toughness. I don't wanna be the guy who says it was better the way Al did it or the way it was done 40+ years ago.
But there was a very definite reason why Al recruited NYC and Chicago. He wanted the tough city kids who learned their game on the playgrounds. Now we have suburb type guys. Not tough enough. Not willing to do the dirty work. Just play that AAU ball and run up and down the court and play the easy defense with your arms instead of your feet.
I think the complete lack of toughness is the biggest failing of the teams under Wojo.
Very valid point.
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on January 11, 2020, 11:21:02 PM
Regardless, this team is still adjusting after losing the Hausers. It's gonna take a minute.
Stop embarrassing yourself. "gonna take a minute"?? LOL!
Quote from: skianth16 on January 11, 2020, 11:33:38 PM
You can't be serious calling this a less experienced team. Our lineup has 3 5th year seniors (!!!), a senior All American/NPOY candidate, a redshirt junior, 2 juniors, a 22 year old sophomore, a redshirt sophomore, and one freshman. We are as old and experienced as you'll find in college hoops.
Awful, horrible, no good take.
Koby had zero big east experience before this year and hadn't played in a game with this team before this year. Same with Jayce. Greg didn't play at all last year. Brendan has a different role with higher expectations, and the most important point,
.
The Hausers are gone.
Their departure completely changed the chemistry and the playing style of the team. Not to mention over 60 minutes a game between the two of them that now has to be filled by guys with completely different skill sets. Do people really think it's that easy to replace guys like Sam and Joey and not miss a step?
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on January 12, 2020, 12:11:45 AM
Koby had zero big east experience before this year and hadn't played in a game with this team before this year. Same with Jayce. Greg didn't play at all last year. Brendan has a different role with higher expectations, and the most important point,
.
The Hausers are gone.
Their departure completely changed the chemistry and the playing style of the team. Not to mention over 60 minutes a game between the two of them that now has to be filled by guys with completely different skill sets. Do people really think it's that easy to replace guys like Sam and Joey and not miss a step?
This is silly. Today was game #16 of the season. The season is now over 50% complete. In addition, these guys have been practicing and playing together since the summer due to the European trip.
And, yes, replacing the Hausers wasn't going to happen. Tough crap for Wojo. MU is not the type of program that can afford to watch talent like that just walk out the door.
Quote from: Jockey on January 11, 2020, 11:30:18 PM
I want to go back to touch on my comment about lack of toughness. I don't wanna be the guy who says it was better the way Al did it or the way it was done 40+ years ago.
But there was a very definite reason why Al recruited NYC and Chicago. He wanted the tough city kids who learned their game on the playgrounds. Now we have suburb type guys. Not tough enough. Not willing to do the dirty work. Just play that AAU ball and run up and down the court and play the easy defense with your arms instead of your feet.
I think the complete lack of toughness is the biggest failing of the teams under Wojo.
Here's a riddle for you. Top prospect is born and raised in the burbs. Shops at the Gap at the Outlet Mall in the burbs. Goes to college in the burbs.
But the college is a junior college.
Quick, what does Wojo do?
Seriously though, I think I see what you're trying to say, but there's a bunch of guys from the city on the roster. The toughness may be there, but perhaps it's simply not being extracted.
Score was not deceiving - Seton Hall clearly had better PG, better post players, and was able to adapt in the last part of the first half and all second half (i.e better coach)...
One team is 4 -0 and one team is 1 -3.... which one is way better
It's crazy how the wojo slurpers will go out of their way to point out to the good in crap game....
Quote from: muguru on January 11, 2020, 08:23:35 PM
But Wojo said the final score was deceiving! So we got that going for us anyway...
Look, it was a two-possession game (after McEwen's three) and we shot 19% from the field in the second half. So the score is a little bit deceiving.
Quote from: PointWarrior on January 12, 2020, 12:43:39 AM
Score was not deceiving - Seton Hall clearly had better PG, better post players, and was able to adapt in the last part of the first half and all second half (i.e better coach)...
One team is 4 -0 and one team is 1 -3.... which one is way better
It's crazy how the wojo slurpers will go out of their way to point out to the good in crap game....
I hope 6ou realize, what i posted was a direct quote from Wojo from the J/S article. That didn't come from me. My comment about Wojo saying the score was deceiving was meant as sarcasm. I am in NO way a wojo slurper.
Quote from: RJax55 on January 12, 2020, 12:28:51 AM
This is silly. Today was game #16 of the season. The season is now over 50% complete. In addition, these guys have been practicing and playing together since the summer due to the European trip.
And, yes, replacing the Hausers wasn't going to happen. Tough crap for Wojo. MU is not the type of program that can afford to watch talent like that just walk out the door.
Practice and playing together cannot simulate big east play.
People also discount injuries to Theo(torn ligament that requires surgery in his dominant hand), Koby(thumb injury shooting hand), Jayce(knee injury), and now Greg(ankle).
I like the honesty though.......
Tough crap for Wojo indeed.
My question is, how many years does it take to rebuild the program. I would like to know so I can manage my expections.
Props to you for trying to stay positive, but this has gotten silly. Good that they were ready to play a conference game on the road. They fell apart at the finish. Good (I guess) that we have new recruits coming in to address a glaring team weakness. I have heard this EVERY year Wojo has been here. By year 6 I kind of expect that he would have guys he recruited to address the weaknesses in the roster he put together. Practice and playing together should help you deal with adjustments opponents may make, or why, exactly, are we practicing at all? To make sure we have a nice, intricate weave at the start of possessions? If this is how far we have to go to be positive things may be worse than I thought.
Quote from: Jockey on January 11, 2020, 11:30:18 PM
I want to go back to touch on my comment about lack of toughness. I don't wanna be the guy who says it was better the way Al did it or the way it was done 40+ years ago.
But there was a very definite reason why Al recruited NYC and Chicago. He wanted the tough city kids who learned their game on the playgrounds. Now we have suburb type guys. Not tough enough. Not willing to do the dirty work. Just play that AAU ball and run up and down the court and play the easy defense with your arms instead of your feet.
I think the complete lack of toughness is the biggest failing of the teams under Wojo.
Agree completely. Buzz's success too imo was largely having guys who were
mentally tough, just found ways to make plays when it was needed.
Quote from: muguru on January 12, 2020, 12:50:13 AM
I hope 6ou realize, what i posted was a direct quote from Wojo from the J/S article. That didn't come from me. My comment about Wojo saying the score was deceiving was meant as sarcasm. I am in NO way a wojo slurper.
The fact that Wojo would say that the score was deceiving is very scary to me. Makes me wonder if he is able to be honest about his team and changes that need to be made. A loss at SH is not terrible but being dishonest about the game is.
IMO I think we were a bit fortunate to keep it as close as we did.
Quote from: connie on January 12, 2020, 06:26:07 AM
Props to you for trying to stay positive, but this has gotten silly. Good that they were ready to play a conference game on the road. They fell apart at the finish. Good (I guess) that we have new recruits coming in to address a glaring team weakness. I have heard this EVERY year Wojo has been here. By year 6 I kind of expect that he would have guys he recruited to address the weaknesses in the roster he put together. Practice and playing together should help you deal with adjustments opponents may make, or why, exactly, are we practicing at all? To make sure we have a nice, intricate weave at the start of possessions? If this is how far we have to go to be positive things may be worse than I thought.
Yeah, by year six, all things being equal, the team should look better.
All things are not equal. Marquette lost Sam and Joey. If they had come back Marquette would have four starters that averaged 30 minutes a game. Now they have two. That doesn't even factor in the quality of the two lost players and their familiarity playing together....aka chemistry.
Marquette now has to find two players or a combination of players to replace them.
Further complicating the problem is the fact that three of the guys that could have helped replace the Hausers production didn't play a single minute last year, and all three are injured to various degree.
So yeah, all things NOT being equal, Marquette is a less experienced team by far this year, and is still figuring things out as they try to build chemistry while working through injuries.
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on January 12, 2020, 12:29:16 PM
Yeah, by year six, all things being equal, the team should look better.
All things are not equal. Marquette lost Sam and Joey. If they had come back Marquette would have four starters that averaged 30 minutes a game. Now they have two. That doesn't even factor in the quality of the two lost players and their familiarity playing together....aka chemistry.
Marquette now has to find two players or a combination of players to replace them.
Further complicating the problem is the fact that three of the guys that could have helped replace the Hausers production didn't play a single minute last year, and all three are injured to various degree.
So yeah, all things NOT being equal, Marquette is a less experienced team by far this year, and is still figuring things out as they try to build chemistry while working through injuries.
If only Wojo was given fair warning regarding the Hauser's unhappiness.....
Apparently Michigan State wasn't road ready today to take on Purdue, a team we beat by double digits.
For those of you not aware....this is called college basketball
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 12:42:27 PM
Apparently Michigan State wasn't road ready today to take on Purdue, a team we beat by double digits.
For those of you not aware....this is called college basketball
That's what this is called?? Further proof of your genius.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 12:42:27 PM
Apparently Michigan State wasn't road ready today to take on Purdue, a team we beat by double digits.
For those of you not aware....this is called college basketball
Classic deflection. I am pretty certain that even though Sparty is getting poleaxed today that they will re-group and have their stuff together come March. Now, back to MU.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 12:42:27 PM
Apparently Michigan State wasn't road ready today to take on Purdue, a team we beat by double digits.
For those of you not aware....this is called college basketball
Parity is so much more prevalent in cbb. This year is perfect evidence of that. No team can hold a #1 spot. Arguably some of the most historic and best teams this year had some utterly pathetic losses in non-conference play on their home court.
Quote from: jonny09 on January 12, 2020, 12:47:03 PM
That's what this is called?? Further proof of your genius.
The irony of you calling Cheeks a creep is pretty funny. All you have to do is go back and read a handful of your own posts to see what an embarrassment you are to yourself.
Quote from: Markusquette on January 12, 2020, 12:52:38 PM
Parity is so much more prevalent in cbb. This year is perfect evidence of that. No team can hold a #1 spot. Arguably some of the most historic and best teams this year had some utterly pathetic losses in non-conference play on their home court.
The irony of you calling Cheeks a creep is pretty funny. All you have to do is go back and read a handful of your own posts to see what an embarrassment you are to yourself.
Yeah, that makes sense. Clearly you and cheeks are close. Sorry to rank on you and your grandfather. GTFOH
Quote from: connie on January 12, 2020, 12:48:37 PM
Classic deflection. I am pretty certain that even though Sparty is getting poleaxed today that they will re-group and have their stuff together come March. Now, back to MU.
Probably will considering their talent level, but good to know we beat a team by double digits that just poleaxed Michigan State. You can call it deflection, I call it real data and something that actually happened.
Quote from: Markusquette on January 12, 2020, 12:52:38 PM
Parity is so much more prevalent in cbb. This year is perfect evidence of that. No team can hold a #1 spot. Arguably some of the most historic and best teams this year had some utterly pathetic losses in non-conference play on their home court.
The irony of you calling Cheeks a creep is pretty funny. All you have to do is go back and read a handful of your own posts to see what an embarrassment you are to yourself.
Yep, this has been quite a roller coaster season. Kansas was routed at home by Baylor yesterday.
Quote from: Markusquette on January 12, 2020, 12:52:38 PM
Parity is so much more prevalent in cbb. This year is perfect evidence of that. No team can hold a #1 spot. Arguably some of the most historic and best teams this year had some utterly pathetic losses in non-conference play on their home court.
The irony of you calling Cheeks a creep is pretty funny. All you have to do is go back and read a handful of your own posts to see what an embarrassment you are to yourself.
Exactly, and yet Marquette, after losing the Hausers minutes and production, and dealing with injuries, is expected to easily overcome these challenges and replicate last years success or even exceed it. SMH
Quote from: jonny09 on January 12, 2020, 12:55:47 PM
Yeah, that makes sense. Clearly you and cheeks are close. Sorry to rank on you and your grandfather. GTFOH
We're close? I have no idea who he/she is. Never met the person in my life, but he has nailed one thing...you are an embarrassment. Even for California, an embarrassment.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 01:09:03 PM
We're close? I have no idea who he/she is. Never met the person in my life, but he has nailed one thing...you are an embarrassment. Even for California, an embarrassment.
Coming from the grandpa arguing with 20 and 30 year olds. I'll take that as a compliment. You are literally nothing more than a fool. A fool who knows very little about sports. The truth sometimes hurts papa
Quote from: jonny09 on January 12, 2020, 01:15:50 PM
Coming from the grandpa arguing with 20 and 30 year olds. I'll take that as a compliment. You are literally nothing more than a fool. A fool who knows very little about sports. The truth sometimes hurts papa
Should there be age restrictions placed on who one can interact with on a sports message board?
Quote from: jonny09 on January 12, 2020, 01:15:50 PM
Coming from the grandpa arguing with 20 and 30 year olds. I'll take that as a compliment. You are literally nothing more than a fool. A fool who knows very little about sports. The truth sometimes hurts papa
Now stop embarrassing your son and go do some work in the garden dad.
Quote from: BM1090 on January 12, 2020, 01:17:18 PM
Should there be age restrictions placed on who one can interact with on a sports message board?
Yeah, generally men 55 and older don't have 5000 posts on a basketball board going back and forth with people who are old enough to call him dad. Hope that clears it up.
Quote from: jonny09 on January 12, 2020, 01:23:08 PM
Yeah, generally men 55 and older don't have 5000 posts on a basketball board going back and forth with people who are old enough to call him dad. Hope that clears it up.
Are you sure of the demographics of the people posting here? I am guessing there are more over 50s than you think and maybe you are the creepy one.
Quote from: hairy worthen on January 12, 2020, 01:27:39 PM
Are you sure of the demographics of the people posting here? I am guessing there are more over 50s than you think and maybe you are the creepy one.
Yeah, you are wrong. On many levels. Keep trying though. You almost had me. 🙄
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on January 12, 2020, 01:05:34 PM
Exactly, and yet Marquette, after losing the Hausers minutes and production, and dealing with injuries, is expected to easily overcome these challenges and replicate last years success or even exceed it. SMH
Why do you keep saying we're "dealing with injuries"? Yeah, Greg was hurt yesterday, but everyone else was active. I know Theo and Koby are playing with injured hands, but if they're suiting up and getting minutes, they should be expected to produce. And if they can't, they shouldn't be playing.
We are not "dealing with injuries" right now, not really. Greg is a role player. When Dom James got hurt his senior year, we were dealing with injuries because we were a different team without him. Ditto Travis the year he got hurt.
We are not "dealing with injuries" to the point where it's an excuse for losing.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 01:03:18 PM
Probably will considering their talent level, but good to know we beat a team by double digits that just poleaxed Michigan State. You can call it deflection, I call it real data and something that actually happened.
We can all pull discrete data points. You make the point to show what, that MU beat PU who beat Mich State, so what, we shouldn't be upset at losing to either Providence or Seton Hall? You brought up Michigan State, so let's stay there. Their loss today was FAR less common than our losses to teams like Providence or Seton Hall. You defend our performance by deflecting to the argument that "good teams sometimes lose". I think good teams lose less often than MU does, which makes us mediocre. I bet there are lots of upset Sparty fans today, but they know their coach will turn things around. I have no record to base that hope on with Wojo, and 6 years of data to say that hope would be misplaced.
jonny09
Not sure on your age, but know you bring little to the board. Why are you so bitter?
Quote from: Jockey on January 11, 2020, 11:30:18 PM
I want to go back to touch on my comment about lack of toughness. I don't wanna be the guy who says it was better the way Al did it or the way it was done 40+ years ago.
But there was a very definite reason why Al recruited NYC and Chicago. He wanted the tough city kids who learned their game on the playgrounds. Now we have suburb type guys. Not tough enough. Not willing to do the dirty work. Just play that AAU ball and run up and down the court and play the easy defense with your arms instead of your feet.
I think the complete lack of toughness is the biggest failing of the teams under Wojo.
Totally. If our threes aren't dropping the opposition is just going to patiently attack with bigger/stronger/more explosive players and get a good look at the basket down the stretch. If those good looks don't drop, we're gonna get out-toughed for the offensive rebound back-breaking putback. Very frustrating way to lose, and I suspect that's what causes some losses to stick in fans' craws for longer.
Quote from: jonny09 on January 12, 2020, 01:15:50 PM
Coming from the grandpa arguing with 20 and 30 year olds. I'll take that as a compliment. You are literally nothing more than a fool. A fool who knows very little about sports. The truth sometimes hurts papa
Yes, chico is an argumentative fool. But, you are showing you are in the same class. A perfect example of why actual adults tend to have little use for your comments.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on January 12, 2020, 01:28:51 PM
Why do you keep saying we're "dealing with injuries"? Yeah, Greg was hurt yesterday, but everyone else was active. I know Theo and Koby are playing with injured hands, but if they're suiting up and getting minutes, they should be expected to produce. And if they can't, they shouldn't be playing.
We are not "dealing with injuries" right now, not really. Greg is a role player. When Dom James got hurt his senior year, we were dealing with injuries because we were a different team without him. Ditto Travis the year he got hurt.
We are not "dealing with injuries" to the point where it's an excuse for losing.
Ummmm, I keep saying it because it's true ???
I don't expect guys that are sacrificing for the team and playing through injuries to produce like they should if they were healthy. If only Marquette had two more experienced and talented players to afford the team the luxury of sitting players. Yeah if only....
My point was that injuries are a compounding factor in addition to the loss of the Hausers, and those injuries are hampering the development and success of this years team.
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on January 12, 2020, 02:14:20 PM
Ummmm, I keep saying it because it's true ???
I don't expect guys that are sacrificing for the team and playing through injuries to produce like they should if they were healthy. If only Marquette had a two more experienced and talented players to afford the team the luxury of sitting players. Yeah if only....
My point was that injuries are a compounding factor in addition to the loss of the Hausers, and those injuries are hampering the development and success of this years team.
Koby stunk long before the thumb issue came up
Quote from: WhoaJoe2020 on January 12, 2020, 02:14:20 PM
Ummmm, I keep saying it because it's true ???
I don't expect guys that are sacrificing for the team and playing through injuries to produce like they should if they were healthy. If only Marquette had a two more experienced and talented players to afford the team the luxury of sitting players. Yeah if only....
My point was that injuries are a compounding factor in addition to the loss of the Hausers, and those injuries are hampering the development and success of this years team.
If we lose Markus, then yes, we can blame injuries for a lackluster season. Right now, in this very moment, injuries should not be an excuse for us.
Losing the Hausers also should not be an excuse for why we're worse. Many on here thought we'd be better, or at least just as good, without them. "We'll be quicker and more athletic now that the quitters are gone." "We have all the guys who want to be Warriors now."
Quote from: panda on January 12, 2020, 02:16:34 PM
Koby stunk long before the thumb issue came up
Koby was average before the thumb issue, some good some bad. He had a few solid stat lines the two games before the injury and was money from the line. He also stepped up in the Purdue game and has played solid defense most of the time. I don't have a problem with people pointing out flaws in a coach or a player, but I take exception to those who misrepresent the historical record to support their opinions.