When preparing a defensive gameplan you can in general take one of two approaches. You can try to take away what the opponent likes to do on offensive or you can focus on what you want to do on defense.
Personally, I think it's better to focus on what you want to do rather than counter what your opponent wants to do. I'd much rather play the game on our terms than try to play the opponent's game. Option two approaches the game from a position of weakness IMHO. When I think back to some of our blowout losses, Creighton, Wisconsin, Murray State last season, all of them have featured a defensive game plan that has asked our players to do something that they haven't been doing the rest of the season. We know the results all too well.
Our on ball defense is mediocre. Our guards and wings have poor lateral quickness and are very quick to foul. One on one, most Big East guards are going to be able to drive past them and penetrate very easily. What we have in spades is length and elite help defense. We defend the the three point line by using length to challenge shots despite playing off to help deny the drive. We defend the paint by funneling drivers to where we want them so Theo, Ed, Jayce, Bailey, and Cain can destroy them from the weak side. Opponents are shooting 29.6% from three against us (52nd in nation) and 42.9% inside the arc (29th) for an eFG% allowed of 43.4% (20th).
Against Creighton, Wojo and Co. decided to try and counter the Jay's three point shooting. When they forced longer possession, the rotations were crisp and they didn't allow many open looks from range. To do this, they had the wings playing tight on the Jays' shooters and the 5s spent all of their time outside of the paint. Coach McD anticipated and took advantage of our guards inability to contain penetration and created a layup line. One of Wojo's biggest weaknesses as a coach is that when the unexpected happens, he doubles down rather than adjust to the unexpected.
Today against Nova, it would have been easy to fall into the same trap. Nova is top 50 in 3PA/FGA, they love to shoot the three. They also have a big guy who can step back and shot the three. Instead, Wojo played to our strength. Told the wings to take a few steps back and kept John roaming in the paint. The result was Nova's second worst efG% game, 3rd most TOs they've ever had in a game, and more of their shots blocked than any other game this season.
TLDR, Wojo gets into trouble when he over thinks the defensive game plan. When he focuses on playing to our strengths, the results are usually pretty good.
I've seen you say "elite help defense" a few times here. Do we have stats to back that up or is it just observational?
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on January 04, 2020, 06:04:31 PM
When preparing a defensive gameplan you can in general take one of two approaches. You can try to take away what the opponent likes to do on offensive or you can focus on what you want to do on defense.
Personally, I think it's better to focus on what you want to do rather than counter what your opponent wants to do. I'd much rather play the game on our terms than try to play the opponent's game. Option two approaches the game from a position of weakness IMHO. When I think back to some of our blowout losses, Creighton, Wisconsin, Murray State last season, all of them have featured a defensive game plan that has asked our players to do something that they haven't been doing the rest of the season. We know the results all too well.
Our on ball defense is mediocre. Our guards and wings have poor lateral quickness and are very quick to foul. One on one, most Big East guards are going to be able to drive past them and penetrate very easily. What we have in spades is length and elite help defense. We defend the the three point line by using length to challenge shots despite playing off to help deny the drive. We defend the paint by funneling drivers to where we want them so Theo, Ed, Jayce, Bailey, and Cain can destroy them from the weak side. Opponents are shooting 29.6% from three against us (52nd in nation) and 42.9% inside the arc (29th) for an eFG% allowed of 43.4% (20th).
Against Creighton, Wojo and Co. decided to try and counter the Jay's three point shooting. When they forced longer possession, the rotations were crisp and they didn't allow many open looks from range. To do this, they had the wings playing tight on the Jays' shooters and the 5s spent all of their time outside of the paint. Coach McD anticipated and took advantage of our guards inability to contain penetration and created a layup line. One of Wojo's biggest weaknesses as a coach is that when the unexpected happens, he doubles down rather than adjust to the unexpected.
Today against Nova, it would have been easy to fall into the same trap. Nova is top 50 in 3PA/FGA, they love to shoot the three. They also have a big guy who can step back and shot the three. Instead, Wojo played to our strength. Told the wings to take a few steps back and kept John roaming in the paint. The result was Nova's second worst efG% game, 3rd most TOs they've ever had in a game, and more of their shots blocked than any other game this season.
TLDR, Wojo gets into trouble when he over thinks the defensive game plan. When he focuses on playing to our strengths, the results are usually pretty good.
Does sticking with the plan and doubleing down ever work?
Is it difficult to change the plan mid game? Should there be a contingency plan?
Your plan seems great and todays plan worked.
If MU has to play your plan because of strengths and limitations, what happens next?
Do opponents come up with a counter measure to your plan that would negate the funnel use your length plan?
Sounds to me that you would like to run the same defense all the time, come what may.
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on January 04, 2020, 06:04:31 PM
When preparing a defensive gameplan you can in general take one of two approaches. You can try to take away what the opponent likes to do on offensive or you can focus on what you want to do on defense.
Personally, I think it's better to focus on what you want to do rather than counter what your opponent wants to do. I'd much rather play the game on our terms than try to play the opponent's game. Option two approaches the game from a position of weakness IMHO. When I think back to some of our blowout losses, Creighton, Wisconsin, Murray State last season, all of them have featured a defensive game plan that has asked our players to do something that they haven't been doing the rest of the season. We know the results all too well.
Our on ball defense is mediocre. Our guards and wings have poor lateral quickness and are very quick to foul. One on one, most Big East guards are going to be able to drive past them and penetrate very easily. What we have in spades is length and elite help defense. We defend the the three point line by using length to challenge shots despite playing off to help deny the drive. We defend the paint by funneling drivers to where we want them so Theo, Ed, Jayce, Bailey, and Cain can destroy them from the weak side. Opponents are shooting 29.6% from three against us (52nd in nation) and 42.9% inside the arc (29th) for an eFG% allowed of 43.4% (20th).
Against Creighton, Wojo and Co. decided to try and counter the Jay's three point shooting. When they forced longer possession, the rotations were crisp and they didn't allow many open looks from range. To do this, they had the wings playing tight on the Jays' shooters and the 5s spent all of their time outside of the paint. Coach McD anticipated and took advantage of our guards inability to contain penetration and created a layup line. One of Wojo's biggest weaknesses as a coach is that when the unexpected happens, he doubles down rather than adjust to the unexpected.
Today against Nova, it would have been easy to fall into the same trap. Nova is top 50 in 3PA/FGA, they love to shoot the three. They also have a big guy who can step back and shot the three. Instead, Wojo played to our strength. Told the wings to take a few steps back and kept John roaming in the paint. The result was Nova's second worst efG% game, 3rd most TOs they've ever had in a game, and more of their shots blocked than any other game this season.
TLDR, Wojo gets into trouble when he over thinks the defensive game plan. When he focuses on playing to our strengths, the results are usually pretty good.
100%.
I mentioned it a bit else where. The key today was we kept Theo at home in the paint.
Swider and especially JRE are really solid players but Swider is really 1 dimensional and for whatever reason JRE doesnt have much interest playing inside. Many times we had small guys on them leaving open the chance to shoot over us. But those guys couldnt take advantage of it on drives. And when more atheltic guards for Nova did try and drive, Theo and our length were waiting.
I thought we had a great plan defensively. There were many times where it felt like Nova players were baited to the hole and werent expecting our help D.
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on January 04, 2020, 06:04:31 PM
When preparing a defensive gameplan you can in general take one of two approaches. You can try to take away what the opponent likes to do on offensive or you can focus on what you want to do on defense.
Personally, I think it's better to focus on what you want to do rather than counter what your opponent wants to do. I'd much rather play the game on our terms than try to play the opponent's game. Option two approaches the game from a position of weakness IMHO. When I think back to some of our blowout losses, Creighton, Wisconsin, Murray State last season, all of them have featured a defensive game plan that has asked our players to do something that they haven't been doing the rest of the season. We know the results all too well.
Our on ball defense is mediocre. Our guards and wings have poor lateral quickness and are very quick to foul. One on one, most Big East guards are going to be able to drive past them and penetrate very easily. What we have in spades is length and elite help defense. We defend the the three point line by using length to challenge shots despite playing off to help deny the drive. We defend the paint by funneling drivers to where we want them so Theo, Ed, Jayce, Bailey, and Cain can destroy them from the weak side. Opponents are shooting 29.6% from three against us (52nd in nation) and 42.9% inside the arc (29th) for an eFG% allowed of 43.4% (20th).
Against Creighton, Wojo and Co. decided to try and counter the Jay's three point shooting. When they forced longer possession, the rotations were crisp and they didn't allow many open looks from range. To do this, they had the wings playing tight on the Jays' shooters and the 5s spent all of their time outside of the paint. Coach McD anticipated and took advantage of our guards inability to contain penetration and created a layup line. One of Wojo's biggest weaknesses as a coach is that when the unexpected happens, he doubles down rather than adjust to the unexpected.
Today against Nova, it would have been easy to fall into the same trap. Nova is top 50 in 3PA/FGA, they love to shoot the three. They also have a big guy who can step back and shot the three. Instead, Wojo played to our strength. Told the wings to take a few steps back and kept John roaming in the paint. The result was Nova's second worst efG% game, 3rd most TOs they've ever had in a game, and more of their shots blocked than any other game this season.
TLDR, Wojo gets into trouble when he over thinks the defensive game plan. When he focuses on playing to our strengths, the results are usually pretty good.
I appreciate your breakdown of our defense struggles in some games. Your ability to be critical of Wojo but provide sound analysis in a mature manner is greatly appreciated.
Also, I do not have enough advanced basketball knowledge to comment on your actual content so uh... I agree! ::)
...and I'm probably going to use the general gist of this post in discussing MU with friends so they think I'm smert and knowledgeable.
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on January 04, 2020, 06:04:31 PM
When preparing a defensive gameplan you can in general take one of two approaches. You can try to take away what the opponent likes to do on offensive or you can focus on what you want to do on defense.
Personally, I think it's better to focus on what you want to do rather than counter what your opponent wants to do. I'd much rather play the game on our terms than try to play the opponent's game. Option two approaches the game from a position of weakness IMHO. When I think back to some of our blowout losses, Creighton, Wisconsin, Murray State last season, all of them have featured a defensive game plan that has asked our players to do something that they haven't been doing the rest of the season. We know the results all too well.
Our on ball defense is mediocre. Our guards and wings have poor lateral quickness and are very quick to foul. One on one, most Big East guards are going to be able to drive past them and penetrate very easily. What we have in spades is length and elite help defense. We defend the the three point line by using length to challenge shots despite playing off to help deny the drive. We defend the paint by funneling drivers to where we want them so Theo, Ed, Jayce, Bailey, and Cain can destroy them from the weak side. Opponents are shooting 29.6% from three against us (52nd in nation) and 42.9% inside the arc (29th) for an eFG% allowed of 43.4% (20th).
Against Creighton, Wojo and Co. decided to try and counter the Jay's three point shooting. When they forced longer possession, the rotations were crisp and they didn't allow many open looks from range. To do this, they had the wings playing tight on the Jays' shooters and the 5s spent all of their time outside of the paint. Coach McD anticipated and took advantage of our guards inability to contain penetration and created a layup line. One of Wojo's biggest weaknesses as a coach is that when the unexpected happens, he doubles down rather than adjust to the unexpected.
Today against Nova, it would have been easy to fall into the same trap. Nova is top 50 in 3PA/FGA, they love to shoot the three. They also have a big guy who can step back and shot the three. Instead, Wojo played to our strength. Told the wings to take a few steps back and kept John roaming in the paint. The result was Nova's second worst efG% game, 3rd most TOs they've ever had in a game, and more of their shots blocked than any other game this season.
TLDR, Wojo gets into trouble when he over thinks the defensive game plan. When he focuses on playing to our strengths, the results are usually pretty good.
excellent summary.
I would like to add that Wojo could improve the defense - when opponents like Creighton go 5-out - by leaving all the bigs on the bench and playing Cain and Bailey as the 4/5.
Nova missed a lot of good looks yesterday. I do not want to take away from the win, but Nova was an extremely nice visitor to our home court. I would not bet on them shooting that poorly the next time around.
Quote from: Goose on January 05, 2020, 07:33:57 AM
Nova missed a lot of good looks yesterday. I do not want to take away from the win, but Nova was an extremely nice visitor to our home court. I would not bet on them shooting that poorly the next time around.
Maybe, but this version of Nova is not nearly as good, with couple experienced guys leading the way, as we're used to. This was their third true road game yesterday, they've played poorly in two, and certainly didn't overwhelm a not very good St Joes team in the third. Their current ranking seems based on reputation.
Quote from: Goose on January 05, 2020, 07:33:57 AM
Nova missed a lot of good looks yesterday. I do not want to take away from the win, but Nova was an extremely nice visitor to our home court. I would not bet on them shooting that poorly the next time around.
Even the greatest defense in history will not cover every opposing player on every possession. A good defensive game plan tries to minimize potential damage by leaving the most dangerous players open the least. Our game plan accomplished its mission -- not to over-glorify the win.
On offense, we had several 40%-plus 3-point shooters miss wide-open 3s, too. Theo missed a layup. Koby, a 90% FT shooter, missed 3 FTs. Markus had two floaters rim out. Maybe next time they all make those shots, and we win even bigger. Or maybe not.
Quote from: Goose on January 05, 2020, 07:33:57 AM
Nova missed a lot of good looks yesterday. I do not want to take away from the win, but Nova was an extremely nice visitor to our home court. I would not bet on them shooting that poorly the next time around.
Change your name to Droopy from Goose and your posts make complete sense.
Quote from: Goose on January 05, 2020, 07:33:57 AM
Nova missed a lot of good looks yesterday. I do not want to take away from the win, but Nova was an extremely nice visitor to our home court. I would not bet on them shooting that poorly the next time around.
Nova shot virtually the same percentage from 3 as MU did. 9-38 v 5-21. So that is a push. MU won this game at the free throw line and on defense. Now, Villanova fans might argue that it was home court officiating that led to the free throw disparity.
MU82
I agree and that is why I said not to take away from the win. It was a very nice win and I liked the team defense. Simply was saying that poor shooting always make the D look good. It was a hard fought W by MU and the D played a big part in the win.
I 100% agree. I know it's important to play to our strengths but having a version of this small ball lineup could be a strength as Bailey does have solid length in a situation when a team plays 5 out.
Quote from: WarriorFan on January 04, 2020, 11:47:21 PM
excellent summary.
I would like to add that Wojo could improve the defense - when opponents like Creighton go 5-out - by leaving all the bigs on the bench and playing Cain and Bailey as the 4/5.
Quote from: zcg2013 on January 05, 2020, 09:36:54 AM
I 100% agree. I know it's important to play to our strengths but having a version of this small ball lineup could be a strength as Bailey does have solid length in a situation when a team plays 5 out.
My problem with this is that if both pick up cheap fouls, the next option is either four guards or two bigs.
The FTs are a difference maker. MU needs Markus to attack attack attack attack. Running from sideline-to-sideline possession after possession and then tossing up a tough 3 is fun to watch, but does not frustrate the opponent. Markus keeps attacking, frustrates the defense into making them second-guess themselves and allows the team to play more aggressive.
Quote from: Goose on January 05, 2020, 09:27:16 AM
MU82
I agree and that is why I said not to take away from the win. It was a very nice win and I liked the team team defense. Simply was saying that poor shooting always make the D look good. It was a hard fought W by MU and the D played a big part in the win.
https://images.app.goo.gl/quDhHL3PLSNTJwhB9
That's a fair thought and an understandable risk, but at the same time I think it's good to have that wrinkle in the back pocket. Side note, would much rather see a small ball lineup than the two bigs lineup.
Quote from: tower912 on January 05, 2020, 09:41:37 AM
My problem with this is that if both pick up cheap fouls, the next option is either four guards or two bigs.
Quote from: GoldenZebra on January 05, 2020, 09:48:36 AM
The FTs are a difference maker. MU needs Markus to attack attack attack attack. Running from sideline-to-sideline possession after possession and then tossing up a tough 3 is fun to watch, but does not frustrate the opponent. Markus keeps attacking, frustrates the defense into making them second-guess themselves and allows the team to play more aggressive.
I think it depends. Howard can put a lot of pressure on defenders, but if refs are letting stuff go, he runs the risk of running into shot blockers that neutralize his driving. I'm especially worried about that at Seton Hall next week.
Quote from: GoldenZebra on January 05, 2020, 09:48:36 AM
The FTs are a difference maker. MU needs Markus to attack attack attack attack. Running from sideline-to-sideline possession after possession and then tossing up a tough 3 is fun to watch, but does not frustrate the opponent. Markus keeps attacking, frustrates the defense into making them second-guess themselves and allows the team to play more aggressive.
What I think Markus needs to stop doing is putting too much effort into drawing a foul when driving to the hoop. There were several instances yesterday (and other games) when his intent was obvious, and it altered his shot so that he got neither get the bucket nor the foul call.
Two points is always better than zero.
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on January 04, 2020, 06:04:31 PM
When preparing a defensive gameplan you can in general take one of two approaches. You can try to take away what the opponent likes to do on offensive or you can focus on what you want to do on defense.
Personally, I think it's better to focus on what you want to do rather than counter what your opponent wants to do. I'd much rather play the game on our terms than try to play the opponent's game. Option two approaches the game from a position of weakness IMHO. When I think back to some of our blowout losses, Creighton, Wisconsin, Murray State last season, all of them have featured a defensive game plan that has asked our players to do something that they haven't been doing the rest of the season. We know the results all too well.
Our on ball defense is mediocre. Our guards and wings have poor lateral quickness and are very quick to foul. One on one, most Big East guards are going to be able to drive past them and penetrate very easily. What we have in spades is length and elite help defense. We defend the the three point line by using length to challenge shots despite playing off to help deny the drive. We defend the paint by funneling drivers to where we want them so Theo, Ed, Jayce, Bailey, and Cain can destroy them from the weak side. Opponents are shooting 29.6% from three against us (52nd in nation) and 42.9% inside the arc (29th) for an eFG% allowed of 43.4% (20th).
Against Creighton, Wojo and Co. decided to try and counter the Jay's three point shooting. When they forced longer possession, the rotations were crisp and they didn't allow many open looks from range. To do this, they had the wings playing tight on the Jays' shooters and the 5s spent all of their time outside of the paint. Coach McD anticipated and took advantage of our guards inability to contain penetration and created a layup line. One of Wojo's biggest weaknesses as a coach is that when the unexpected happens, he doubles down rather than adjust to the unexpected.
Today against Nova, it would have been easy to fall into the same trap. Nova is top 50 in 3PA/FGA, they love to shoot the three. They also have a big guy who can step back and shot the three. Instead, Wojo played to our strength. Told the wings to take a few steps back and kept John roaming in the paint. The result was Nova's second worst efG% game, 3rd most TOs they've ever had in a game, and more of their shots blocked than any other game this season.
TLDR, Wojo gets into trouble when he over thinks the defensive game plan. When he focuses on playing to our strengths, the results are usually pretty good.
Excellent summary again. Glad you are coming around on scheme ;)
Quote from: Goose on January 05, 2020, 07:33:57 AM
Nova missed a lot of good looks yesterday. I do not want to take away from the win, but Nova was an extremely nice visitor to our home court. I would not bet on them shooting that poorly the next time around.
Agreed, but I can also think of 4-5 tough, contested shots that they hit. It evens out.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on January 05, 2020, 08:09:05 AM
Change your name to Droopy from Goose and your posts make complete sense.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ZOcAAOSw-vlVj6Bz/s-l300.jpg)
(Shooter, use the Insert Image button. It's easy. Just copy image address.)
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 05, 2020, 10:53:47 AM
I think it depends. Howard can put a lot of pressure on defenders, but if refs are letting stuff go, he runs the risk of running into shot blockers that neutralize his driving. I'm especially worried about that at Seton Hall next week.
his midrange game was excellent the first half. If he continues hitting that pullup 15 footer, he is virtually unstoppable.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 05, 2020, 11:15:26 AM
Excellent summary again. Glad you are coming around on scheme ;)
Have to have the personnel before you can fix the scheme