After a long hiatus, I've returned. Several years ago I called for the firing of Wojo, critiquing his poor coaching. The moderators tried to shut me down for voicing an opinion supported by facts. Time hath proven me correct that Wojo is a fraud. The question remains: Why do the majority of MU fans continue to "believe" in this fraud? Let's take a look.
Why is Wojo Still Head Coach?
a. Coach K's coattails
b. Fan base who lacks critical analysis to evaluate coaching.
c. Poor contract offered up by the university
d. Your infatuation with Markus Howard's stats and alleged 4* recruits that don't pan out
Wojo's Weaknesses
a. Lack of continuity on defense. No system whatsoever
b. Inability to recruit talent and recruit players that fit to a system
c. Monotone buffoonery that is uninspiring - Jason Garrett 2.0
d. Inability to create a significant home court advantage when you have one of the highest attendances in NCAA basketball = lack of defense
The MU fanbase and media are to blame. No effort has been taken to behead the beast that has sullied the program. Wojo's only strength is his clean cut, professional image which seems to be what the MU fan base craves these days.
I'll let you know that a majority of the fan base does not believe in him.
Well, that's a good to hear. I saw this coming years ago. The question is.... why isn't there a buzz in the media about it? Is MU shutting that down? Are they waiting for Wojo's contract to expire and be cheap about the whole process?
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 02, 2020, 11:58:03 AM
Well, that's a good to hear. I saw this coming years ago. The question is.... why isn't there a buzz in the media about it? Is MU shutting that down? Are they waiting for Wojo's contract to expire and be cheap about the whole process?
I doubt Ben Steele is going to write a "should they fire Wojo" piece at this point in the season. Frankly, the Brewers offseason is higher on the media's list than MU basketball. If Wojo coached the Packers, the media would have been on him in the non-conference of his first year.
I don't think the "mods shut you down" for this, seeing as at least this guy has wanted a new MU coach for longer than yesterday.
Browsing the ban log, the note was "only shows up after MU losses." -- Well, at least you are consistent.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 02, 2020, 12:01:34 PM
I don't think the "mods shut you down" for this, seeing as at least this guy has wanted a new MU coach for longer than yesterday.
Browsing the ban log, the note was "only shows up after MU losses." -- Well, at least you are consistent.
Scoop ban log
(https://cdn3.vectorstock.com/i/1000x1000/47/32/turd-poop-cartoon-vector-4044732.jpg)
Quote from: #UnleashHoward40shots on January 02, 2020, 11:55:15 AM
I'll let you know that a majority of the fan base does not believe in him.
You speak for the majority of the fan base?
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 02, 2020, 12:01:34 PM
I don't think the "mods shut you down" for this, seeing as at least this guy has wanted a new MU coach for longer than yesterday.
Browsing the ban log, the note was "only shows up after MU losses." -- Well, at least you are consistent.
"If one particular style of thought stands out about creative genius, it is the ability to make juxtapositions between dissimilar subjects. Call it a facility to connect the unconnected that enables them to see things to which others are blind."
Don't worry, MU moderators wouldn't be the first people in history to shut down genius insight. Had MU taken my advice, the program could be year 3 into a much more viable coach rather than continue to put up with Wojo's incompetence.
Quote from: WarriorDad on January 02, 2020, 12:08:16 PM
You speak for the majority of the fan base?
There's a very vocal minority of High Volume Wojo Guys who will immediately run to Wojo's defense at the slightest criticism, but instead of trying to defend him or his coaching they'll hurl personal insults at his detractors in an attempt to derail the conversation. These people post so frequently and so loudly that it actually seems like Wojo has more supporters than he really does.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on January 02, 2020, 12:18:35 PM
There's a very vocal minority of High Volume Wojo Guys who will immediately run to Wojo's defense at the slightest criticism, but instead of trying to defend him or his coaching they'll hurl personal insults at his detractors in an attempt to derail the conversation. These people post so frequently and so loudly that it actually seems like Wojo has more supporters than he really does.
Attendance suffering? Donations? Recruiting? Those seem more important than who claims to have support on a message forum.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 02, 2020, 12:15:09 PM
"If one particular style of thought stands out about creative genius, it is the ability to make juxtapositions between dissimilar subjects. Call it a facility to connect the unconnected that enables them to see things to which others are blind."
Don't worry, MU moderators wouldn't be the first people in history to shut down genius insight. Had MU taken my advice, the program could be year 3 into a much more viable coach rather than continue to put up with Wojo's incompetence.
Now, you've veered into the "narcissistic fool" lane.
Quote from: Jockey on January 02, 2020, 12:38:21 PM
Now, you've veered into the "narcissistic fool" lane.
Yep.
"Genius insight"? Seriously? How insecure does a person need to be to talk about himself like that?
Quote from: Jockey on January 02, 2020, 12:38:21 PM
Now, you've veered into the "narcissistic fool" lane.
Only a Beta Male supports Wojo and subpar results. Excellence and vision - when proven - should not be cast into the depths.
Quote from: cheebs09 on January 02, 2020, 12:01:12 PM
If Wojo coached the Packers, the media would have been on him in the non-conference of his first year.
Can't agree with you there. The media gave McCarthy 14 years. Granted he won a Super Bowl and Wojo can't win a post season game, but still..... 14 years.
Quote from: cheebs09 on January 02, 2020, 12:01:12 PM
I doubt Ben Steele is going to write a "should they fire Wojo" piece at this point in the season. Frankly, the Brewers offseason is higher on the media's list than MU basketball. If Wojo coached the Packers, the media would have been on him in the non-conference of his first year.
Not true, McCarthy got a long leash.
Furthermore, pro sports totally different and not an apt comparison. The draft alone guarantees you will get good access to players each year, same with contracts and the salary cap. Limited number of teams, good players land on bad teams, good teams, great teams. That's not the case with college sports where you are competing against a much larger pool, only have a kid for max of four years, they can leave whenever they want (no contracts), etc. Just a different animal.
Quote from: Mutaman on January 02, 2020, 01:07:22 PM
Can't agree with you there. The media gave McCarthy 14 years. Granted he won a Super Bowl and Wojo can't win a post season game, but still..... 14 years.
If you think the media gave McCarthy a long leash, you probably weren't reading much Bob McGinn. And anyway, I am not sure what they were supposed to do with a coach who got them to the 2017 NFC Championship Game - not that long ago.
The media would need to cover MU to give Wojo some heat. I think Steele is fine, but MU does not get much air time in the local media. I would not hold out expecting to see the Journal throw any anti Wojo comments in the paper.
The Journal Sentinel doesn't hold as much clout as it used to. If pressure is to be put on Wojo it has to be a grassroots effort from the fan base. Judging by the posts on here, I don't see that happening. People don't seem to realize that not playing defense doesn't get you anywhere in college basketball. But hey!!! There's that 2020 recruiting class! Oooooooooooh Ahhhhhhhhhh
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 02, 2020, 12:01:34 PM
I don't think the "mods shut you down" for this, seeing as at least this guy has wanted a new MU coach for longer than yesterday.
Browsing the ban log, the note was "only shows up after MU losses." -- Well, at least you are consistent.
Still waiting to hear back on my first accounts ban reason 8-)
Quote from: #UnleashHoward40shots on January 02, 2020, 01:36:06 PM
Still waiting to hear back on my first accounts ban reason 8-)
Pretty sure a mod posted it publicly that it had to do with some posts on the Chatboard that matched your IP.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on January 02, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Pretty sure a mod posted it publicly that it had to do with some posts on the Chatboard that matched your IP.
You were correct about posts in the chat board believed to be me. But alas most definitely didn't match any ips.
I rarely go to the chat room, and that night I was in a chemistry lab. Which is why I posted asking about the game.
I could see why the mods put two and two together since I was very much against Derrick running the point. Little did I know he was benched that game.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 02, 2020, 12:48:36 PM
Only a Beta Male supports Wojo and subpar results. Excellence and vision - when proven - should not be cast into the depths.
So which diseases have you cured, Dr. Alpha? Life-changing inventions? Contributions to world peace?
Just curious to see where your personal bar is set....
Quote from: WarriorDad on January 02, 2020, 12:33:01 PM
Attendance suffering? Donations? Recruiting? Those seem more important than who claims to have support on a message forum.
those things and how the coach and team are representing the university. It's not as if MU is in Northwestern territory right now or losing home buy games to Merrimack, FAMU or Cal State Fullerton. I haven't seen Josh Rothstein refer to any of our results as "the epitome of brutality."
When the fans start sharing their opinions by withholding donations or not buying tickets then the administration will act. But as long as Wojo's team is competing for a tourney bid every year, 15K are filling the arena, and representing the university in a positive manner (as a person, unlike Deane, and as a program, unlike Buzz) he's safe.
You're f*cking nuts
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on January 02, 2020, 04:43:06 PM
those things and how the coach and team are representing the university. It's not as if MU is in Northwestern territory right now or losing home buy games to Merrimack, FAMU or Cal State Fullerton. I haven't seen Josh Rothstein refer to any of our results as "the epitome of brutality."
When the fans start sharing their opinions by withholding donations or not buying tickets then the administration will act. But as long as Wojo's team is competing for a tourney bid every year, 15K are filling the arena, and representing the university in a positive manner (as a person, unlike Deane, and as a program, unlike Buzz) he's safe.
This is exactly correct. There is no hot seat. Not even warm.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on January 02, 2020, 04:43:06 PM
those things and how the coach and team are representing the university. It's not as if MU is in Northwestern territory right now or losing home buy games to Merrimack, FAMU or Cal State Fullerton. I haven't seen Josh Rothstein refer to any of our results as "the epitome of brutality."
When the fans start sharing their opinions by withholding donations or not buying tickets then the administration will act. But as long as Wojo's team is competing for a tourney bid every year, 15K are filling the arena, and representing the university in a positive manner (as a person, unlike Deane, and as a program, unlike Buzz) he's safe.
So basically as long as Wojo doesn't turn Marquette into DePaul, he's safe? It'll take *a lot* of losing for Marquette's attendance to drop to where it was during the Deane era. The nearly two decades of sustained success under Crean and Buzz saw to that. But a few more years of middling results will certainly start to make a difference.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/EzswuNSaHT80E/giphy.gif)
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on January 02, 2020, 04:43:06 PM
those things and how the coach and team are representing the university. It's not as if MU is in Northwestern territory right now or losing home buy games to Merrimack, FAMU or Cal State Fullerton. I haven't seen Josh Rothstein refer to any of our results as "the epitome of brutality."
When the fans start sharing their opinions by withholding donations or not buying tickets then the administration will act. But as long as Wojo's team is competing for a tourney bid every year, 15K are filling the arena, and representing the university in a positive manner (as a person, unlike Deane, and as a program, unlike Buzz) he's safe.
Buzz represented the university well with Buzz's Bunch and being active in the community. Perhaps you have a disdain for Buzz's accent or it's just Wojo's monotone, low voice makes your heart flutter along with his recruits that seem to almost all shop at the GAP. Winning is what matters. To settle for Wojo's facade is to admit you're a fan of image rather than results and history.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 02, 2020, 05:15:31 PM
Buzz represented the university well with Buzz's Bunch and being active in the community. Perhaps you have a disdain for Buzz's accent or it's just Wojo's monotone, low voice makes your heart flutter along with his recruits that seem to almost all shop at the GAP. Winning is what matters. To settle for Wojo's facade is to admit you're a fan of image rather than results and history.
Yeah that and the get everyone's story straight meeting after two team bonding sessions with unwilling victims and he represented the school fantastic.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on January 02, 2020, 05:19:12 PM
Yeah that and the get everyone's story straight meeting after two team bonding sessions with unwilling victims and he represented the school fantastic.
You can blame the school itself for its antiquated policies. If it cared about the victims, it would have turned the case over to the police. But hey.... Catholics have never been for transparency, have they?
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 02, 2020, 05:31:28 PM
You can blame the school itself for its antiquated policies. If it cared about the victims, it would have turned the case over to the police. But hey.... Catholics have never been for transparency, have they?
I can and do. That does not absolve buzz from his part.
Nope, they have not it's one of many reasons I'm not a practicing Catholic.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on January 02, 2020, 05:08:01 PM
So basically as long as Wojo doesn't turn Marquette into DePaul, he's safe? It'll take *a lot* of losing for Marquette's attendance to drop to where it was during the Deane era. The nearly two decades of sustained success under Crean and Buzz saw to that. But a few more years of middling results will certainly start to make a difference.
has DePaul been competing for the NCAA tourney every year? How is DePaul's attendance and donation rate?
It's all or nothing with the anti-Wojo crowd. We're either Duke or DePaul, no in between.
In before the lock
Quote from: Galway Eagle on January 02, 2020, 05:19:12 PM
Yeah that and the get everyone's story straight meeting after two team bonding sessions with unwilling victims and he represented the school fantastic.
don't forget his scapegoating and running the guy who intervened.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on January 02, 2020, 05:47:01 PM
has DePaul been competing for the NCAA tourney every year? How is DePaul's attendance and donation rate?
It's all or nothing with the anti-Wojo crowd. We're either Duke or DePaul, no in between.
I didn't say Marquette was DePaul. I said he would have to
turn MU into DePaul before the administration considered moving on.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 02, 2020, 05:15:31 PM
Buzz represented the university well with Buzz's Bunch and being active in the community. Perhaps you have a disdain for Buzz's accent or it's just Wojo's monotone, low voice makes your heart flutter along with his recruits that seem to almost all shop at the GAP. Winning is what matters. To settle for Wojo's facade is to admit you're a fan of image rather than results and history.
Shop at the Gap lol
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 02, 2020, 05:31:28 PM
You can blame the school itself for its antiquated policies. If it cared about the victims, it would have turned the case over to the police. But hey.... Catholics have never been for transparency, have they?
Antiquated policies.....some lawyers argue what was done IS AGAINST THE LAW....but hey...what the hell...antiquated. Good Lord.
You people have changed your expectations so much in 6 years. It's no longer competing for a national championship, conference Champs, or a final four. It's become "competing for a bid to the tournament" really?
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 02, 2020, 11:53:14 AM
After a long hiatus, I've returned. Several years ago I called for the firing of Wojo, critiquing his poor coaching. The moderators tried to shut me down for voicing an opinion supported by facts. Time hath proven me correct that Wojo is a fraud. The question remains: Why do the majority of MU fans continue to "believe" in this fraud? Let's take a look.
Why is Wojo Still Head Coach?
a. Coach K's coattails
b. Fan base who lacks critical analysis to evaluate coaching.
c. Poor contract offered up by the university
d. Your infatuation with Markus Howard's stats and alleged 4* recruits that don't pan out
Wojo's Weaknesses
a. Lack of continuity on defense. No system whatsoever
b. Inability to recruit talent and recruit players that fit to a system
c. Monotone buffoonery that is uninspiring - Jason Garrett 2.0
d. Inability to create a significant home court advantage when you have one of the highest attendances in NCAA basketball = lack of defense
The MU fanbase and media are to blame. No effort has been taken to behead the beast that has sullied the program. Wojo's only strength is his clean cut, professional image which seems to be what the MU fan base craves these days.
Thanks for this well considered and thoughtful post.
One point worth noting. Shortly after the end of the season I posted a straightforward up and down poll on Wojo. A decent amount responded and the total was 85/15 for Wojo staying. I posted another poll shortly after Hausergate and the response was 70/30 for Wojo staying. So right now the fans are not at a point to lead a rebellion. I think when those polls are around 50/50 then you know trouble is in store.
The problem as I see it, is that the Lovell/Wojo axis is still extremely strong. I don't know if you have ever met Wojo in person. He is a much different person than what you see on TV. Even his face looks different, much more relaxed etc. A very smooth corporate brown nose operator. Knows exactly what to say and how to say it to the Big Cheeses that make the decisions. He has shown just enough progression to give hope that the Big Sale is just around the corner. That is how all the good salesman do it. One other item worth noting , is Wojo has embraced the history of MU and has the alum of the program in his corner. Those guys have egos too, and they love having them be stroked.
You have laid out some very valid and responsible reasons for Wojo's ouster, unfortunately the guys who ultimately make those decisions have a materially different view of the world . They appear to be placing value on the scandal free character of his administration and are thus satisfied with the performance to date.Wojo is King for life at MU provided no scandal occurs.
Our best hope for getting a new coach is when some desperate Power 5 football school in search of new direction for basketball reaches out to Wojo. Wojo got a sniff of what it felt like with Va Tech last year and he admitted he was flattered. It may take a couple of coaching carousel cycles for the right opening to emerge. In the meantime we have to just gird our loins and hope Wojo can maintain until we are unleashed from the shackles of his tenure. The Big East is going to get even tougher next year with the addition of U Conn.
Quote from: #UnleashHoward40shots on January 02, 2020, 07:34:46 PM
You people have changed your expectations so much in 6 years. It's no longer competing for a national championship, conference Champs, or a final four. It's become "competing for a bid to the tournament" really?
we never had a championship shot. There was two years maybe three if you include 09 (which then you have to include last year) where we competed for conference champs/FF.
Quote from: #UnleashHoward40shots on January 02, 2020, 07:34:46 PM
You people have changed your expectations so much in 6 years. It's no longer competing for a national championship, conference Champs, or a final four. It's become "competing for a bid to the tournament" really?
Wrong
I expect we make the NCAA tournament 3.5 to 4 years out of every 5. That's reasonable knowing our history. I expect us to compete for conference championships....like we did last year...talk about forgetting and losing site of reality. We have made three Final Fours in the last 42 years. I don't expect to compete for Final Fours...you're right...I don't. We are capable of doing it from time to time, but I don't expect it.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 02, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
Wrong
I expect we make the NCAA tournament 3.5 to 4 years out of every 5. That's reasonable knowing our history. I expect us to compete for conference championships....like we did last year...talk about forgetting and losing site of reality. We have made three Final Fours in the last 42 years. I don't expect to compete for Final Fours...you're right...I don't. We are capable of doing it from time to time, but I don't expect it.
MU Expectations
Be in the NCAA Tourney 99% of the time - No reason you can't be in Big East with a field of 68
2 to 3 Sweet 16's per decade
0-1 Elite 8 per decade
0-1 Final Four per decade
Typical expectation should be be a 1 to 2 win team in the tourney every year with avg of 23+ Wins Per Season
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 02, 2020, 07:58:02 PM
MU Expectations
Be in the NCAA Tourney 99% of the time - No reason you can't be in Big East with a field of 68
2 to 3 Sweet 16's per decade
0-1 Elite 8 per decade
0-1 Final Four per decade
Typical expectation should be be a 1 to 2 win team in the tourney every year with avg of 23+ Wins Per Season
We've gone through this exercise time and again. 99% of the time....there are something like 5 programs in the last 20 years that have done that. Not Kentucky. Not UCLA. Not Louisville. Etc, etc.
This is when I know how crazy the expectations are vs reality.
Quote from: Herman Cain on January 02, 2020, 07:41:02 PM
Thanks for this well considered and thoughtful post.
One point worth noting. Shortly after the end of the season I posted a straightforward up and down poll on Wojo. A decent amount responded and the total was 85/15 for Wojo staying. I posted another poll shortly after Hausergate and the response was 70/30 for Wojo staying. So right now the fans are not at a point to lead a rebellion. I think when those polls are around 50/50 then you know trouble is in store.
The problem as I see it, is that the Lovell/Wojo axis is still extremely strong. I don't know if you have ever met Wojo in person. He is a much different person than what you see on TV. Even his face looks different, much more relaxed etc. A very smooth corporate brown nose operator. Knows exactly what to say and how to say it to the Big Cheeses that make the decisions. He has shown just enough progression to give hope that the Big Sale is just around the corner. That is how all the good salesman do it. One other item worth noting , is Wojo has embraced the history of MU and has the alum of the program in his corner. Those guys have egos too, and they love having them be stroked.
You have laid out some very valid and responsible reasons for Wojo's ouster, unfortunately the guys who ultimately make those decisions have a materially different view of the world . They appear to be placing value on the scandal free character of his administration and are thus satisfied with the performance to date.Wojo is King for life at MU provided no scandal occurs.
Our best hope for getting a new coach is when some desperate Power 5 football school in search of new direction for basketball reaches out to Wojo. Wojo got a sniff of what it felt like with Va Tech last year and he admitted he was flattered. It may take a couple of coaching carousel cycles for the right opening to emerge. In the meantime we have to just gird our loins and hope Wojo can maintain until we are unleashed from the shackles of his tenure. The Big East is going to get even tougher next year with the addition of U Conn.
Source please.
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 02, 2020, 08:18:23 PM
Source please.
It will take me time to find it, but I clearly remember hearing him say it was nice to know someplace thought highly enough of him etc in a video interview sometime after the end of the season. The interview spoke to the Hausers etc.
Quote from: Herman Cain on January 02, 2020, 07:41:02 PM
Thanks for this well considered and thoughtful post.
One point worth noting. Shortly after the end of the season I posted a straightforward up and down poll on Wojo. A decent amount responded and the total was 85/15 for Wojo staying. I posted another poll shortly after Hausergate and the response was 70/30 for Wojo staying. So right now the fans are not at a point to lead a rebellion. I think when those polls are around 50/50 then you know trouble is in store.
The problem as I see it, is that the Lovell/Wojo axis is still extremely strong. I don't know if you have ever met Wojo in person. He is a much different person than what you see on TV. Even his face looks different, much more relaxed etc. A very smooth corporate brown nose operator. Knows exactly what to say and how to say it to the Big Cheeses that make the decisions. He has shown just enough progression to give hope that the Big Sale is just around the corner. That is how all the good salesman do it. One other item worth noting , is Wojo has embraced the history of MU and has the alum of the program in his corner. Those guys have egos too, and they love having them be stroked.
You have laid out some very valid and responsible reasons for Wojo's ouster, unfortunately the guys who ultimately make those decisions have a materially different view of the world . They appear to be placing value on the scandal free character of his administration and are thus satisfied with the performance to date.Wojo is King for life at MU provided no scandal occurs.
Our best hope for getting a new coach is when some desperate Power 5 football school in search of new direction for basketball reaches out to Wojo. Wojo got a sniff of what it felt like with Va Tech last year and he admitted he was flattered. It may take a couple of coaching carousel cycles for the right opening to emerge. In the meantime we have to just gird our loins and hope Wojo can maintain until we are unleashed from the shackles of his tenure. The Big East is going to get even tougher next year with the addition of U Conn.
Well, when Howard leaves the program what is really the selling point anymore? There isn't a beacon of hope unless someone in the 2020 class is ahead of schedule and can create some excitement. Wojo will have to look hard to find someone to create excitement. To me, that's when the real clock starts ticking. Right now it's all about image. That's why a lot of good coaches in the lower ranks don't want to coach in Division I - the political landscape. Why doesn't Wojo just run for office? Can't we find senate seat for him or house seat?
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 02, 2020, 07:58:02 PM
MU Expectations
Be in the NCAA Tourney 99% of the time - No reason you can't be in Big East with a field of 68
2 to 3 Sweet 16's per decade
0-1 Elite 8 per decade
0-1 Final Four per decade
Typical expectation should be be a 1 to 2 win team in the tourney every year with avg of 23+ Wins Per Season
You want this? Go be a jayhawk fan. I dont get the non sense people spew on here sometimes. We have expectations that are somewhat in line with reality. I expect to be good and make the tourney most years. The odds of us getting a coach k and becoming the duke are just not reasonable expectation
Brother Dark Glasses:
I've said this before and I'll say it again. The decision about Wojo will be revenue driven. Period. End of story.
When people stop coming to the Computing Castle. When TV ratings are down and when our games are sandwiched between the Devotional Hour and All-Star Wrestling and just ahead of the national anthem, then they'll begin to see things in a different light. When it costs them money is when the BOT and the University will act.
Results matter. In this case, being a member of the Big East and a party to its huge TV contract matters. When 13,000 people show up for a crappy game at the CC, then they're getting the results they want.
My analogy to this is simple. The Chicago Bears, a few years back when the Fox was HC, saw huge amounts of no-shows. The north and south ends of the Grandstands were vacant at kickoff. Bear fans stopped ticket renewals and the Bears suddenly were working their way down the season ticket waiting list. The Fox was suddenly put down in favor of an "offensive genius." The bleeding stopped and the Bears were popular again.
Quote from: dgies9156 on January 02, 2020, 08:47:48 PM
Brother Dark Glasses:
I've said this before and I'll say it again. The decision about Wojo will be revenue driven. Period. End of story.
When people stop coming to the Computing Castle. When TV ratings are down and when our games are sandwiched between the Devotional Hour and All-Star Wrestling and just ahead of the national anthem, then they'll begin to see things in a different light. When it costs them money is when the BOT and the University will act.
Results matter. In this case, being a member of the Big East and a party to its huge TV contract matters. When 13,000 people show up for a crappy game at the CC, then they're getting the results they want.
My analogy to this is simple. The Chicago Bears, a few years back when the Fox was HC, saw huge amounts of no-shows. The north and south ends of the Grandstands were vacant at kickoff. Bear fans stopped ticket renewals and the Bears suddenly were working their way down the season ticket waiting list. The Fox was suddenly put down in favor of an "offensive genius." The bleeding stopped and the Bears were popular again.
I understand it perfectly. The problem with their thinking is that it won't last long term. As soon as Markus Howard leaves there isn't an attraction anymore. You're left with mediocre basketball and no namers. Next year is going to be Wojo's biggest sell job as he will have to find his next gimmick.
Quote from: dgies9156 on January 02, 2020, 08:47:48 PM
Brother Dark Glasses:
I've said this before and I'll say it again. The decision about Wojo will be revenue driven. Period. End of story.
When people stop coming to the Computing Castle. When TV ratings are down and when our games are sandwiched between the Devotional Hour and All-Star Wrestling and just ahead of the national anthem, then they'll begin to see things in a different light. When it costs them money is when the BOT and the University will act.
Results matter. In this case, being a member of the Big East and a party to its huge TV contract matters. When 13,000 people show up for a crappy game at the CC, then they're getting the results they want.
My analogy to this is simple. The Chicago Bears, a few years back when the Fox was HC, saw huge amounts of no-shows. The north and south ends of the Grandstands were vacant at kickoff. Bear fans stopped ticket renewals and the Bears suddenly were working their way down the season ticket waiting list. The Fox was suddenly put down in favor of an "offensive genius." The bleeding stopped and the Bears were popular again.
A lot of sound logic here. Money trumps most other issues. But don't think that MU is 'all in' on Wojo. They see his faults. The extension was very modest and gives MU an easy out in the next year or two if need be. I think MU is playing their hand well. Everyone knows Wojo is not great, including MU's administration and they are not locked into him long term.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 02, 2020, 10:01:38 PM
A lot of sound logic here. Money trumps most other issues. But don't think that MU is 'all in' on Wojo. They see his faults. The extension was very modest and gives MU an easy out in the next year or two if need be. I think MU is playing their hand well. Everyone knows Wojo is not great, including MU's administration and they are not locked into him long term.
So you think they're biding their time until the candidate who is the right fit comes along?
Quote from: dgies9156 on January 02, 2020, 08:47:48 PM
Brother Dark Glasses:
I've said this before and I'll say it again. The decision about Wojo will be revenue driven. Period. End of story.
When people stop coming to the Computing Castle. When TV ratings are down and when our games are sandwiched between the Devotional Hour and All-Star Wrestling and just ahead of the national anthem, then they'll begin to see things in a different light. When it costs them money is when the BOT and the University will act.
Results matter. In this case, being a member of the Big East and a party to its huge TV contract matters. When 13,000 people show up for a crappy game at the CC, then they're getting the results they want.
My analogy to this is simple. The Chicago Bears, a few years back when the Fox was HC, saw huge amounts of no-shows. The north and south ends of the Grandstands were vacant at kickoff. Bear fans stopped ticket renewals and the Bears suddenly were working their way down the season ticket waiting list. The Fox was suddenly put down in favor of an "offensive genius." The bleeding stopped and the Bears were popular again.
With all due respect, tv ratings for now have nothing to do with it. The contract is locked in amounts for the entire conference.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 02, 2020, 10:37:57 PM
With all due respect, tv ratings for now have nothing to do with it. The contract is locked in amounts for the entire conference.
Brother Cheeks:
As much as I respect your judgment on all things sports TV, on this one you are wrong. TV rating do matter.
Yes, the contract is locked in but if you're on tape delay just before the station signs off, you're hurting recruiting and reducing visibility of your program and your university. Yes, revenue for TV is locked, but there will be ancillary revenue from visibility that goes away.
Much as I love my Evening Devotional or All-Star Wrestling reruns, I don't want my MU basketball sandwiched between the two. And, I like getting my Warriors in Florida, which won't happen if they're on FS MMCX
Quote from: dgies9156 on January 03, 2020, 10:14:16 PM
Brother Cheeks:
As much as I respect your judgment on all things sports TV, on this one you are wrong. TV rating do matter.
Yes, the contract is locked in but if you're on tape delay just before the station signs off, you're hurting recruiting and reducing visibility of your program and your university. Yes, revenue for TV is locked, but there will be ancillary revenue from visibility that goes away.
Much as I love my Evening Devotional or All-Star Wrestling reruns, I don't want my MU basketball sandwiched between the two. And, I like getting my Warriors in Florida, which won't happen if they're on FS MMCX
Nothing is on tape delay with this contract. All the games televised are live. Not an issue.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 02, 2020, 11:53:14 AM
After a long hiatus, I've returned. Several years ago I called for the firing of Wojo, critiquing his poor coaching. The moderators tried to shut me down for voicing an opinion supported by facts. Time hath proven me correct that Wojo is a fraud. The question remains: Why do the majority of MU fans continue to "believe" in this fraud? Let's take a look.
Why is Wojo Still Head Coach?
a. Coach K's coattails
b. Fan base who lacks critical analysis to evaluate coaching.
c. Poor contract offered up by the university
d. Your infatuation with Markus Howard's stats and alleged 4* recruits that don't pan out
Wojo's Weaknesses
a. Lack of continuity on defense. No system whatsoever
b. Inability to recruit talent and recruit players that fit to a system
c. Monotone buffoonery that is uninspiring - Jason Garrett 2.0
d. Inability to create a significant home court advantage when you have one of the highest attendances in NCAA basketball = lack of defense
The MU fanbase and media are to blame. No effort has been taken to behead the beast that has sullied the program. Wojo's only strength is his clean cut, professional image which seems to be what the MU fan base craves these days.
. Seems to me that when he is miked up talking to the team he's mostly exhorting them to play harder. No adjustments or strategy, just play harder. He may not know what else to say or do. No real plan, just c'mon guys you gotta play harder.
Quote from: ATWizJr on January 04, 2020, 08:42:54 AM
. Seems to me that when he is miked up talking to the team he's mostly exhorting them to play harder. No adjustments or strategy, just play harder. He may not know what else to say or do. No real plan, just c'mon guys you gotta play harder.
Teal? I mean do you really expect him to spill detailed adjustments so future opponents know exactly what he's going to do?
Quote from: Johnny B on January 02, 2020, 08:39:20 PM
You want this? Go be a jayhawk fan.
A Jayhawk fan would never have such low expectations.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 04, 2020, 09:41:40 AM
A Jayhawk fan would never have such low expectations.
And they are outraged that the FBI caught $Bill cheating.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 02, 2020, 12:42:16 PM
Yep.
"Genius insight"? Seriously? How insecure does a person need to be to talk about himself like that?
When you have the biggest brain - as I'm sure MikeDeanes thinks he does - you shouldn't feel that insecure.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on January 04, 2020, 08:45:01 AM
Teal? I mean do you really expect him to spill detailed adjustments so future opponents know exactly what he's going to do?
In game adjustments are preferable to telling the team to play harder. If you've got yo resort to that you either have no idea what adjustments to make or you have recruited the wrong players. As for tipping off future opponents, your adjust will be clear to all once you retake the floor and execute them.
Quote from: ATWizJr on January 04, 2020, 10:22:21 AM
In game adjustments are preferable to telling the team to play harder. If you've got yo resort to that you either have no idea what adjustments to make or you have recruited the wrong players. As for tipping off future opponents, your adjust will be clear to all once you retake the floor and execute them.
::)
Good god this is ridiculous and has been shown to be wrong on so many occasions over the past few years
Quote from: Cheeks on January 02, 2020, 08:14:21 PM
We've gone through this exercise time and again. 99% of the time....there are something like 5 programs in the last 20 years that have done that. Not Kentucky. Not UCLA. Not Louisville. Etc, etc.
This is when I know how crazy the expectations are vs reality.
Exactly right. Not even the best of the best when it comes to blue bloods make the NCAA tournament all the time. Even UNC in the last decade has been up and down even with their top-tier recruiting and coach.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on January 04, 2020, 10:24:18 AM
::)
Good god this is ridiculous and has been shown to be wrong on so many occasions over the past few years
really? Making in game adjustments has been shown to be ridiculous and telling your team to play harder is the answer? That's what a coach does when he's out of ideas.
Quote from: ATWizJr on January 04, 2020, 10:37:26 AM
really? Making in game adjustments has been shown to be ridiculous and telling your team to play harder is the answer? That's what a coach does when he's out of ideas.
Are you new here?
Quote from: ATWizJr on January 04, 2020, 10:37:26 AM
really? Making in game adjustments has been shown to be ridiculous and telling your team to play harder is the answer? That's what a coach does when he's out of ideas.
No expecting it to be played on the miccd up huddles is ridiculous
Quote from: ATWizJr on January 04, 2020, 08:42:54 AM
. Seems to me that when he is miked up talking to the team he's mostly exhorting them to play harder. No adjustments or strategy, just play harder. He may not know what else to say or do. No real plan, just c'mon guys you gotta play harder.
We've gone through this a million times, what they show in terms of "mic'd up" is not suppose to contain strategy elements and that is part of what was agreed to by the conference and the broadcaster. You are hearing 10 seconds of a timeout that lasts 60 seconds. The strategy stuff is excluded, same goes for the other coaches.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 04, 2020, 10:42:52 AM
We've gone through this a million times, what they show in terms of "mic'd up" is not suppose to contain strategy elements and that is part of what was agreed to by the conference and the broadcaster. You are hearing 10 seconds of a timeout that lasts 60 seconds. The strategy stuff is excluded, same goes for the other coaches.
Mic'd up is stupid. Probably the corniest thing in college bball besides len elmore
Quote from: Markusquette on January 04, 2020, 10:49:59 AM
Mic'd up is stupid. Probably the corniest thing in college bball besides len elmore
It's a broadcasting gimmick. We once pitched the idea to the NFL for Sunday Ticket broadcasts to mic up a coach live during an entire game totally unedited with every cuss word, etc. You can imagine how fast that got shot down. It's all about "more access" and leaves people more puzzled and truly believing the coaches just say rah rah try harder...it's lame.
Turgeon's mic'd up huddle:
Stay down on shot fakes! Be tougher. BE TOUGHER! STAY DOWN ON SHOT FAKES! STAY DOWN!
we should hire that guy ::) Don't believe anyone that uses those as a reason a coach is bad.
They had a game a while back with Cooley and Leitao miked up the whole game. Was fascinating. Cooley spent the whole game almost working the refs. He got a return as he got a couple of key calls in his favor at the end.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 03, 2020, 11:05:19 PM
Nothing is on tape delay with this contract. All the games televised are live. Not an issue.
OK, TV Boy, it's not taped. But TV does decide what time a game is broadcast and on which brand of a sports network the game will appear.
The fact is that if people become apathetic, FS1, Fox and CBS will be the answer to the trivia question, "What networks once broadcast Marquette games back when they actually could beat Dayton?"
I WANT MY MU GOOD AND I WANT IT ON THE TREASURE COAST OF FLORIDA!
Quote from: dgies9156 on January 04, 2020, 12:51:14 PM
OK, TV Boy, it's not taped. But TV does decide what time a game is broadcast and on which brand of a sports network the game will appear.
The fact is that if people become apathetic, FS1, Fox and CBS will be the answer to the trivia question, "What networks once broadcast Marquette games back when they actually could beat Dayton?"
I WANT MY MU GOOD AND I WANT IT ON THE TREASURE COAST OF FLORIDA!
Brother DG, the networks have those times allocated already, you will be able to see your games with MU. MU isn't sold on its own, it is the BIg East conference rights. As long as MU is in the Big East you will be fine. CBS just signed a deal with the conference that lasts through 2025, FOX has the rights for some time as well. You will be fine watching MU in Florida at at times that you can view.
Quote from: dgies9156 on January 04, 2020, 12:51:14 PM
The fact is that if people become apathetic, FS1, Fox and CBS will be the answer to the trivia question, "What networks once broadcast Marquette games back when they actually could beat Dayton?"
I get your point, but the last time MU consistently beat Dayton was under O'Neil and Deane. Crean got one win. None since. So your question is incorrect if you want FS1, Fox and CBS to be the answer.
https://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/dayton
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 04, 2020, 12:58:24 PM
I get your point, but the last time MU consistently beat Dayton was under O'Neil and Deane. Crean got one win. None since. So your question is incorrect if you want FS1, Fox and CBS to be the answer.
https://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/dayton
We have also hardly played them of late. Buzz's team lost to them by 14 in Chicago in 2009, the last time we played them.
Shut your god damn mouth and never come back to this effing message board.
(I may have had a little pent up anger over the past few days reading all this nonsense)
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 04, 2020, 03:12:43 PM
Shut your god damn mouth and never come back to this effing message board.
(I may have had a little pent up anger over the past few days reading all this nonsense)
Amen
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 04, 2020, 03:12:43 PM
Shut your god damn mouth and never come back to this effing message board.
(I may have had a little pent up anger over the past few days reading all this nonsense)
Preach
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 04, 2020, 03:12:43 PM
Shut your god damn mouth and never come back to this effing message board.
(I may have had a little pent up anger over the past few days reading all this nonsense)
Never fails to amaze me how silly people make themselves look 1 game into conference play. Hey, look, MU beats #10 Nova at home (who took down #1 Kansas a couple weeks ago). Creighton loses to Butler. This is the nature of college basketball and conference play. For MU to win this is a testament to Wojo too. MU loses their second best player and managed to retool and come back to compete at the same level.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 02, 2020, 11:53:14 AM
After a long hiatus, I've returned. Several years ago I called for the firing of Wojo, critiquing his poor coaching. The moderators tried to shut me down for voicing an opinion supported by facts. Time hath proven me correct that Wojo is a fraud. The question remains: Why do the majority of MU fans continue to "believe" in this fraud? Let's take a look.
Why is Wojo Still Head Coach?
a. Coach K's coattails
b. Fan base who lacks critical analysis to evaluate coaching.
c. Poor contract offered up by the university
d. Your infatuation with Markus Howard's stats and alleged 4* recruits that don't pan out
Wojo's Weaknesses
a. Lack of continuity on defense. No system whatsoever
b. Inability to recruit talent and recruit players that fit to a system
c. Monotone buffoonery that is uninspiring - Jason Garrett 2.0
d. Inability to create a significant home court advantage when you have one of the highest attendances in NCAA basketball = lack of defense
The MU fanbase and media are to blame. No effort has been taken to behead the beast that has sullied the program. Wojo's only strength is his clean cut, professional image which seems to be what the MU fan base craves these days.
Moron.
Character revealed.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 04, 2020, 12:58:17 PM
Brother DG, the networks have those times allocated already, you will be able to see your games with MU. MU isn't sold on its own, it is the BIg East conference rights. As long as MU is in the Big East you will be fine. CBS just signed a deal with the conference that lasts through 2025, FOX has the rights for some time as well. You will be fine watching MU in Florida at at times that you can view.
Just to circle back to this. The KU/WVU game today is on ESPN+. So, if you subscribe to cable and get the full gambit of ESPN channels, you still have to pay an extra $5/mo to stream this game. If I were a B12 fan, I'd be pissed at ESPN for pulling this crap with the contract.
MU is (so far) lucky to have Fox sports as the contract holder.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 04, 2020, 03:12:43 PM
Shut your god damn mouth and never come back to this effing message board.
(I may have had a little pent up anger over the past few days reading all this nonsense)
AMEN ! ! ! Thank you ! ! ! 8-)
Teams lose conference road games. Wojo isn't getting fired. Bray away.
I don't think Wojo walks on water. So far, I have not seen him make a team more than the sum of it's parts. In game, a little too much paint by numbers, a little lacking in creativity. Crean without Wade.
But... By the end of this season, he will have won somewhere around 110 games in a 5 year span. Can't be argued. And no coach gets fired with that kind of record, with no scandals, with a solid recruiting class coming in. Nor should he.
I am also frustrated about the lack of tournament success. And I would have liked the rebuild to go faster. Blowouts suck. But they happen.
MU wanted the anti-Buzz. They got him. Clean program. 20+ wins per year. So, instead of hoping he gets fired (because he won't), start figuring out which program will make a serious run at him that he might actually leave for. Duke? Maryland?
Quote from: tower912 on January 05, 2020, 02:42:41 PM
I don't think Wojo walks on water. So far, I have not seen him make a team more than the sum of it's parts. In game, a little too much paint by numbers, a little lacking in creativity. Crean without Wade.
But... By the end of this season, he will have won somewhere around 110 games in a 5 year span. Can't be argued. And no coach gets fired with that kind of record, with no scandals, with a solid recruiting class coming in. Nor should he.
I am also frustrated about the lack of tournament success. And I would have liked the rebuild to go faster. Blowouts suck. But they happen.
MU wanted the anti-Buzz. They got him. Clean program. 20+ wins per year. So, instead of hoping he gets fired (because he won't), start figuring out which program will make a serious run at him that he might actually leave for. Duke? Maryland?
Maryland is one that will always make the most sense to me. ACC jobs that could come open include BC, Wake or GaTech. Would going to one of those with no expectations at the beginning be an appealing choice to him?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 05, 2020, 02:52:52 PM
Maryland is one that will always make the most sense to me. ACC jobs that could come open include BC, Wake or GaTech. Would going to one of those with no expectations at the beginning be an appealing choice to him?
Are these programs all perceived as better jobs than MU? Lateral moves?
Quote from: tower912 on January 05, 2020, 02:42:41 PM
MU wanted the anti-Buzz. They got him. Clean program. 20+ wins per year. So, instead of hoping he gets fired (because he won't), start figuring out which program will make a serious run at him that he might actually leave for. Duke? Maryland?
Wojo is closer to getting fired than getting the Duke job. But he's not getting fired anytime soon so both are fanciful ideas.
Let's enjoy the wins, hope Wojo improves his coaching and appreciate the class act that he is.
Quote from: Johnny B on January 05, 2020, 03:03:03 PM
Are these programs all perceived as better jobs than MU? Lateral moves?
BC is worse for sure. I'll let others argue about the other two. I'm just throwing them out there as jobs that could be open
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 05, 2020, 03:06:49 PM
Wojo is closer to getting fired than getting the Duke job. But he's not getting fired anytime soon so both are fanciful ideas.
Let's enjoy the wins, hope Wojo improves his coaching and appreciate the class act that he is.
Wojo is much closer to leaving for "greener pastures" than he is to getting fired. One NCAA tournament win and he is one of the hotter names on the carousel imo.
Quote from: AirPunch on January 05, 2020, 03:32:28 PM
Wojo is much closer to leaving for "greener pastures" than he is to getting fired. One NCAA tournament win and he is one of the hotter names on the carousel imo.
I would agree with that. May need more than 1 tourney win to become one of the hotter names, imo, but your logic is sound.
I think we'd all love for Wojo to be a hot commodity in the coaching world and I have good reason to believe MU has a lot of 'dry powder' to keep him in both money and years for a contract, if they want to.
Quote from: AirPunch on January 05, 2020, 03:32:28 PM
Wojo is much closer to leaving for "greener pastures" than he is to getting fired. One NCAA tournament win and he is one of the hotter names on the carousel imo.
And then we start all over again and a good chunk of fans here will be thrilled....yay...start over again...yay
Quote from: Cheeks on January 05, 2020, 03:50:47 PM
And then we start all over again and a good chunk of fans here will be thrilled....yay...start over again...yay
Soooo, your pulling for Wojo and MU to not win in the NCAA?
There are so many troll morons on Scoop not even funny. Obviously not fans only.
Quote from: News: Garcia dreams MU on January 05, 2020, 04:19:16 PM
There are so many troll morons on Scoop not even funny. Obviously not fans only.
+1.
Quote from: tower912 on January 05, 2020, 02:42:41 PM
I don't think Wojo walks on water. So far, I have not seen him make a team more than the sum of it's parts. In game, a little too much paint by numbers, a little lacking in creativity. Crean without Wade.
But... By the end of this season, he will have won somewhere around 110 games in a 5 year span. Can't be argued. And no coach gets fired with that kind of record, with no scandals, with a solid recruiting class coming in. Nor should he.
I am also frustrated about the lack of tournament success. And I would have liked the rebuild to go faster. Blowouts suck. But they happen.
MU wanted the anti-Buzz. They got him. Clean program. 20+ wins per year. So, instead of hoping he gets fired (because he won't), start figuring out which program will make a serious run at him that he might actually leave for. Duke? Maryland?
Why would Duke make a run at Wojo? It's the other way around. Wojo isn't even the best Duke candidate out there. It seems most people on here don't know how to recognize a top 25 coach.
I try to make peace. Some aren't interested. Bray on.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 05, 2020, 04:35:35 PM
Why would Duke make a run at Wojo? It's the other way around. Wojo isn't even the best Duke candidate out there. It seems most people on here don't know how to recognize a top 25 coach.
Because you're an effing troll fool with no good insight and very low basketball knowledge. You're an SNL sketch like Herman....
Quote from: AirPunch on January 05, 2020, 03:32:28 PM
Wojo is much closer to leaving for "greener pastures" than he is to getting fired. One NCAA tournament win and he is one of the hotter names on the carousel imo.
The additional likelihood is that .. Wojo needs to reset his career clock: How many years can you be a head coach at a major basketball program and have zero NCAA wins before no equivalent+ program should hire you?
Flip it around, say "Zojo" was at Xavier for 6 years with no wins, would MU hire him or find a "hot" assistant?
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 05, 2020, 04:46:55 PM
The additional likelihood is that .. Wojo needs to reset his career clock: How many years can you be a head coach at a major basketball program and have zero NCAA wins before no equivalent+ program should hire you?
Flip it around, say "Zojo" was at Xavier for 6 years with no wins, would MU hire him or find a "hot" assistant?
Zojo would likely be viewed as a top candidate by everyone but XUScoop.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 05, 2020, 04:46:55 PM
The additional likelihood is that .. Wojo needs to reset his career clock: How many years can you be a head coach at a major basketball program and have zero NCAA wins before no equivalent+ program should hire you?
Flip it around, say "Zojo" was at Xavier for 6 years with no wins, would MU hire him or find a "hot" assistant?
Especially true when you have coached the schools, probably the BE's all time leading scorer and one of the best scorers to ever play CBB and have zero NCAA wins?? Who would hire a guy like that??
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on January 05, 2020, 04:49:01 PM
Zojo would likely be viewed as a top candidate by everyone but XUScoop.
XUscoop thinks they can get Chris Beard
But wouldn't have wanted pre Texas Tech Chris Beard.
Quote from: tower912 on January 05, 2020, 05:03:04 PM
But wouldn't have wanted pre Texas Tech Chris Beard.
Life's great riddle
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 05, 2020, 04:46:55 PM
The additional likelihood is that .. Wojo needs to reset his career clock: How many years can you be a head coach at a major basketball program and have zero NCAA wins before no equivalent+ program should hire you?
Flip it around, say "Zojo" was at Xavier for 6 years with no wins, would MU hire him or find a "hot" assistant?
Oliver Purnell proved you don't need to win in the tournament
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on January 05, 2020, 04:49:01 PM
Zojo would likely be viewed as a top candidate by everyone but XUScoop.
I'm confused. Is the question would MU hire a coach from a program like XU with a resume like Wojo? If that's the question, I'd say almost no chance. Every coach in XU program in past 25+(?) years has had equal or more success than Wojo with less resources than MU has. I'd say MU would take a shot at a more proven coach or an up and coming coach or asst. (IMO).
(Again, my opinion. I don't dislike Wojo. Cool guy. Good to very good coach when you factor in recruiting. My answer could change in 3 months, but I'm going on this moment in time. Also, FYI, I did support his extension)
Quote from: Galway Eagle on January 05, 2020, 05:14:34 PM
Oliver Purnell proved you don't need to win in the tournament
Don't give the anti-Wojo crowd any more ammo.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 05, 2020, 04:46:55 PM
The additional likelihood is that .. Wojo needs to reset his career clock: How many years can you be a head coach at a major basketball program and have zero NCAA wins before no equivalent+ program should hire you?
Flip it around, say "Zojo" was at Xavier for 6 years with no wins, would MU hire him or find a "hot" assistant?
So...I'm trying to figure it out. Wojo wins 1 NCAA game this year and all the bellyaching goes away? Or is it 2? or 3 wins?
Edited: Get to an elite 8, and he's at the "heights" Buzz got us to, before he plummeted. Does that buy him another 6 years (as it seems Buzz is still in good graces with many of the guys that hate Wojo...)
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 05, 2020, 05:28:17 PM
So...I'm trying to figure it out. Wojo wins 1 NCAA game this year and all the bellyaching goes away? Or is it 2? or 3 wins?
The bellyaching should go away, but I predict it wouldn't.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 05, 2020, 05:28:17 PM
So...I'm trying to figure it out. Wojo wins 1 NCAA game this year and all the bellyaching goes away? Or is it 2? or 3 wins?
Edited: Get to an elite 8, and he's at the "heights" Buzz got us to, before he plummeted. Does that buy him another 6 years (as it seems Buzz is still in good graces with many of the guys that hate Wojo...)
That's a question I wondered. If they were 11-seeds last year and won a tournament game, would that have been a more successful season?
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 05, 2020, 05:28:17 PM
So...I'm trying to figure it out. Wojo wins 1 NCAA game this year and all the bellyaching goes away? Or is it 2? or 3 wins?
Edited: Get to an elite 8, and he's at the "heights" Buzz got us to, before he plummeted. Does that buy him another 6 years (as it seems Buzz is still in good graces with many of the guys that hate Wojo...)
Let's start with one. That is genuine progress.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 05, 2020, 05:28:17 PM
So...I'm trying to figure it out. Wojo wins 1 NCAA game this year and all the bellyaching goes away? Or is it 2? or 3 wins?
Edited: Get to an elite 8, and he's at the "heights" Buzz got us to, before he plummeted. Does that buy him another 6 years (as it seems Buzz is still in good graces with many of the guys that hate Wojo...)
Would 1 NCAA win make the bellyaching go away? I'm not sure, but it'd be a nice start.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 05, 2020, 05:28:17 PM
So...I'm trying to figure it out. Wojo wins 1 NCAA game this year and all the bellyaching goes away? Or is it 2? or 3 wins?
Edited: Get to an elite 8, and he's at the "heights" Buzz got us to, before he plummeted. Does that buy him another 6 years (as it seems Buzz is still in good graces with many of the guys that hate Wojo...)
The better scenario to ask about - if wojo beat south Carolina, then got blown out in the second round. And everything happens after that exactly the same (Hauser's leave, etc), does it change any opinions?
No. It doesn't. People just don't like wojo. And will only tolerate him if he's successful because they have to
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 05, 2020, 05:14:44 PM
I'm confused. Is the question would MU hire a coach from a program like XU with a resume like Wojo? If that's the question, I'd say almost no chance. Every coach in XU program in past 25+(?) years has had equal or more success than Wojo with less resources than MU has. I'd say MU would take a shot at a more proven coach or an up and coming coach or asst. (IMO).
(Again, my opinion. I don't dislike Wojo. Cool guy. Good to very good coach when you factor in recruiting. My answer could change in 3 months, but I'm going on this moment in time. Also, FYI, I did support his extension)
Explain to me the less resources concept.
XU has an on campus arena...MU does not. Huge huge huge advantage.
If you believe the numbers, MU spends $12M on hoops and Xavier over $8M. XU doesn't have to pay rent to Fiserv, XU also takes in revenue from other sources using the Cintas Center including parking, concessions, rent, sponsorships.
I don't think the discrepancy is that big.
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 05, 2020, 05:57:08 PM
The better scenario to ask about - if wojo beat south Carolina, then got blown out in the second round. And everything happens after that exactly the same (Hauser's leave, etc), does it change any opinions?
No. It doesn't. People just don't like wojo. And will only tolerate him if he's successful because they have to
Some people don't like him.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 05, 2020, 05:28:17 PM
So...I'm trying to figure it out. Wojo wins 1 NCAA game this year and all the bellyaching goes away? Or is it 2? or 3 wins?
Edited: Get to an elite 8, and he's at the "heights" Buzz got us to, before he plummeted. Does that buy him another 6 years (as it seems Buzz is still in good graces with many of the guys that hate Wojo...)
It's not just that he hasn't won in the NCAA, it's the fashion in how we lost. It's also the meltdown of last season coupled with the inability to manage roster last season (and I'd argue his very first year at MU was a trainwreck in roster management.)
I'd be happy if Wojo succeeds. I just don't see a particularly high ceiling. I'll be fully "sold" if he can take us to three Sweet 16s in next five years. That would be job well done from my perspective and certainly eliminate the frustration over individual game losses.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 05, 2020, 07:02:00 PM
It's not just that he hasn't won in the NCAA, it's the fashion in how we lost. It's also the meltdown of last season coupled with the inability to manage roster last season (and I'd argue his very first year at MU was a trainwreck in roster management.)
I'd be happy if Wojo succeeds. I just don't see a particularly high ceiling. I'll be fully "sold" if he can take us to three Sweet 16s in next five years. That would be job well done from my perspective and certainly eliminate the frustration over individual game losses.
Except you were bitching about him prior to last year's collapse or NCAA loss, so it is hard to take your first paragraph seriously at all.
You will be "fully sold" if he does something that only a handful of teams in the country have currently done...go to three Sweet 16's five years. Well ok then. :o
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 05, 2020, 05:57:08 PM
The better scenario to ask about - if wojo beat south Carolina, then got blown out in the second round. And everything happens after that exactly the same (Hauser's leave, etc), does it change any opinions?
No. It doesn't. People just don't like wojo. And will only tolerate him if he's successful because they have to
This is a really good thought experiment. Kudos, lad.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 05, 2020, 11:49:36 PM
Except you were bitching about him prior to last year's collapse or NCAA loss, so it is hard to take your first paragraph seriously at all.
You will be "fully sold" if he does something that only a handful of teams in the country have currently done...go to three Sweet 16's five years. Well ok then. :o
No, it's quite simple. Wojo needs to exhibit a defensive system, execute a more cohesive offensive game, coach a fundamentally sound program, and do a much better job of developing players. Wojo's approach to the game is one that shows a lack of discipline/development, etc. All of his teams lapse and had Villanova not been in a rebuild year, I suspect they would have come back and won. MU certainly left the door open in the 2nd half.
What's the ceiling with this guy? Maybe an NCAA tourney win if they shoot close to 50%? That's not MU basketball. That's A10 ball. Wojo is a notch or two below the median of what MU has had for coaching in the past. If the right coach is out there now......pull the trigger. If it takes a year or two fine - but get the right guy. The Monotone Whisperer just isn't a good coach all around. #FundamentallyFlawed
The sad part is all of you think his recruiting class will make waves. If they match what's on paper you'll end up disappointed. Wojo's lack of coaching ability/player development will surface, especially in close/clutch games.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 06, 2020, 03:18:38 PM
No, it's quite simple. Wojo needs to exhibit a defensive system, execute a more cohesive offensive game, coach a fundamentally sound program, and do a much better job of developing players. Wojo's approach to the game is one that shows a lack of discipline/development, etc. All of his teams lapse and had Villanova not been in a rebuild year, I suspect they would have come back and won. MU certainly left the door open in the 2nd half.
What's the ceiling with this guy? Maybe an NCAA tourney win if they shoot close to 50%? That's not MU basketball. That's A10 ball. Wojo is a notch or two below the median of what MU has had for coaching in the past. If the right coach is out there now......pull the trigger. If it takes a year or two fine - but get the right guy. The Monotone Whisperer just isn't a good coach all around. #FundamentallyFlawed
The sad part is all of you think his recruiting class will make waves. If they match what's on paper you'll end up disappointed. Wojo's lack of coaching ability/player development will surface, especially in close/clutch games.
So now the team that beat #1 Kansas a few weeks ago is merely "rebuilding". OK
You have made some statements in the last 5 days that have been universally destroyed and proven factually to be wrong. In other cases you have an opinion, that's fine...we all do.
If you don't see the defensive improvement on this team the last few years, I don't know what to say to you. All of his teams lapse? False statement.
Developing players....I didn't realize Markus Howard came in as an All American as a freshman. A guy like Sacar Anim was RAW when he started, now he is a dependable player for us. Etc, etc. Some guys develop a lot, some guys develop a little, some guys don't develop. Sometimes that is on the coach, and sometimes players just don't have it in them or won't do the work. I can pick players from Buzz, Crean, Al McGuire, etc, that didn't do much....and vice versa. You make it sound this is just some software package that requires a new version upgrade. Sorry, not how humans work.
You may be right on the recruits, or you might not. Only time will tell.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 05, 2020, 07:02:00 PM
I'd be happy if Wojo succeeds. I just don't see a particularly high ceiling. I'll be fully "sold" if he can take us to three Sweet 16s in next five years. That would be job well done from my perspective and certainly eliminate the frustration over individual game losses.
That's an awfully high bar to set for almost any coach. I'd love to see regular S16 appearances happen in his tenure, but I could be convinced that he's the right guy for the job a little easier. Winning in March is a great step in the right direction. So is getting guys to the NBA. Heck, I'd just like to see fewer head-scratching transfers.
He showed last year that he's got a lot of the right pieces, but roster (read: ego) management was a big thorn in his side. He's improved the defensive scheming in a big way, but now this year's team struggles with some basic fundamentals like traveling too often. I think ironing out some of the little things could end up going a long way to providing more success on the court.
You sure tout #1 Kansas like some piece of mistletoe, hanging above you and wojo. The fact being, you haven't accounted for college basketball as a whole right now, not having one dominant team. That #1 moniker is meaningless. The rankings should start at #10 and go from there when you compare it historically to other years. There's more parity right now, this moment, than most years or ever for that matter. College basketball is diluted talent-wise.
Lol, Defensive Movement - I mean if you consider a movement going from atrocious to average that's fine. As I said before, MU doesn't play fundamentally sound defense. There are many lapses. Wojo has never installed a fundamental system - in 6 years. He has some better players now - that's the difference. But why no system? No identity... nothing. The methodology seems to be....take whatever you can get in recruiting (Star Wise) to appease the masses - then try and throw it together somehow. Meanwhile, you have coaches out there that will get a 3 star rather than 4 star player, and 3 star fits the system better. How does one even describe Wojo basketball-wise? How do you sell him?
As far as player development goes - Wojo hasn't improved anyone enough to send them to the NBA. Not one in 6 years. That's atrocious! Another signature of an avg coach. (Ellenson doesn't count because he would have been drafted if he was able to go out of high school.) Plus, yes.... players improve because they get older, bigger, stronger, etc. You don't see huge jumps from Wojo's players as you have in years past from other MU players. There's not any NBA talent on this roster. Typical MU program should have at around 1 potential NBA er on the team and a few quality Euro players on the squad at all times.
You see the surface, but not what lies beneath. The Monotone Whispers make you feel all funny and fuzzy inside.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 05, 2020, 05:28:17 PM
So...I'm trying to figure it out. Wojo wins 1 NCAA game this year and all the bellyaching goes away? Or is it 2? or 3 wins?
Edited: Get to an elite 8, and he's at the "heights" Buzz got us to, before he plummeted. Does that buy him another 6 years (as it seems Buzz is still in good graces with many of the guys that hate Wojo...)
All I really want is my enthusiasm for MU basketball back. My gut feeling is that we'll finish somewhere in the middle of the pack this year, get a middling seed for the tournament and maybe, but not likely, win 1 game when we get there. And I figure we'll slide back a little next year.
Basically, I want reason to hope for runs at Big East championships and deep tournament runs. I know I won't get them most years, but at least a reason to hope for them. I don't know how to describe it, but last year's fade at the end and the subsequent departure of Sam Hauser took a big enthusiasm toll on me. I don't want it to be that way, but it is. I went along with the just OK results for the first four years because last year and this year were coming and they had lots of promise and through the road game at Providence we were right on it, but then collapse and Hausergate.
So it is not a specific number of wins or specific accomplishments, but I want to feel like we have a good chance for a big season when January rolls around more often than not.
I am actually the exact opposite. The Hauser departure made me appreciate that the rest of the eligible players stayed, that Symir reclassified that Jayce transferred in. The fact that Wojo held together and compiled a roster with a chance to be as good as last year filled me with hope for Wojo as a coach. Then he added an elite class with even more potential.
Honestly, Wojo's response to the departure may be his finest hour so far
And this team has a higher ceiling than last year because there is depth, athleticism, improved defense, and no agendas other than the team.
Quote from: tower912 on January 06, 2020, 04:18:15 PM
I am actually the exact opposite. The Hauser departure made me appreciate that the rest of the eligible players stayed, that Symir reclassified that Jayce transferred in. The fact that Wojo held together and compiled a roster with a chance to be as good as last year filled me with hope for Wojo as a coach. Then he added an elite class with even more potential.
Honestly, Wojo's response to the departure may be his finest hour so far
And this team has a higher ceiling than last year because there is depth, athleticism, improved defense, and no agendas other than the team.
I find it interesting that Hauser could go onto Virginia and then be part of an elite defensive unit - even though he's not the quickest player.
Who says you have to be quick to play good defense? Look at UW.
Sam will do do fine there. He will have an extra year to rehab his hip. The slow pace on offense that limits possessions along with the pack line is a good fit for him.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on January 06, 2020, 04:26:45 PM
Who says you have to be quick to play good defense? Look at UW.
Exactly - then you look at MU's roster - more athletic but that athleticism doesn't translate on defense.
MU isn't going to get the elite recruits that are long, can score, etc. So, if it wants to compete in the top 25 consistently - it has to have a defensive identity.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on January 06, 2020, 04:26:45 PM
Who says you have to be quick to play good defense? Look at UW.
Though their lack of quickness has bitten them in the butt quite a few times over the years (including against MU). when they are unable to stay in front of their opponents. But, they do generally play solid D.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 06, 2020, 04:29:29 PM
Exactly - then you look at MU's roster - more athletic but that athleticism doesn't translate on defense.
Even after the Creighton debacle, MU has a top 40 defense nationally, per KenPom. (38th, to be exact). Last year, the team was 45th.
For comparison's sake, Buzz's teams ranked 52nd, 55th, 62nd, 14th, 45th and 60th.
To me, the most encouraging trend of Wojo's tenure is the improvement on D.
KenPom ranked Marquette outside the Top 150 in defensive efficiency for two straight years -- 2016-17 (#165) and 2017-18 (#182). But we saw a dramatic jump to #45 last season. And that's continued this year (#38 through the first 14 games).
Two games in particular stand out:
Back in November, Marquette held Purdue to 0.87 points per possession -- one of the 10 best defensive performances against the Boilermakers over the past five years. Our offense wasn't all that good (1.03 ppp). But we still won by double digits, thanks to stifling defense (just 17 points allowed!) in the second half.
Marquette locked down Villanova to an even greater degree, holding them to 0.83 ppp. Since 2015, only 3 teams have done better against the Wildcats. It was also the best defensive performance of the Wojo era against an opponent from a Power 6 conference. Once again, our offense was far from great (0.99 ppp). But we won by double digits.
A couple seasons ago, if we weren't draining threes left and right, our chances of beating a quality team were slim to none. Now the defense can not only keep us in games, but win games outright.
We're not there yet. This team hasn't played consistently enough to earn a Top 25 ranking. There's room for improvement on both ends. But they've already proven capable of things that no Wojo-coached team has done before. Sixteen games remain to see how far they can rise.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 06, 2020, 04:23:51 PM
I find it interesting that Hauser could go onto Virginia and then be part of an elite defensive unit - even though he's not the quickest player.
He's not part of an elite defensive unit yet. He and his teammates have to demonstrate that they can execute Bennetts elite defensive scheme. No one can say how his hip will affect his mobility or if it will hold up under the rigors of a CBB season. Anointing him and next years Virginia defense as elite is a bit premature at this point in time.
Quote from: Nukem2 on January 06, 2020, 04:33:33 PM
Though their lack of quickness has bitten them in the butt quite a few times over the years (including against MU). when they are unable to stay in front of their opponents. But, they do generally play solid D.
They're also play dirty
MU's defense is markedly improved post Rowsey.
Quote from: tower912 on January 06, 2020, 04:28:55 PM
Sam will do do fine there. He will have an extra year to rehab his hip. The slow pace on offense that limits possessions along with the pack line is a good fit for him.
I was just about to float the possibility that Sams transfer had nothing to do with Joey, Markus, or Wojo but everything to do with UVAs style of play and being able to sit out a year and fully rehab his hip. I was also going to propose that Sam knew the style of play that Wojo wanted to run, both offensively and defensively and realized he wouldn't be a good fit. Especially when he wouldn't have the extra year to rehab at Marquette. The very real possibility of this makes me even more comfortable with Sams departure.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 06, 2020, 04:29:29 PM
Exactly - then you look at MU's roster - more athletic but that athleticism doesn't translate on defense.
MU isn't going to get the elite recruits that are long, can score, etc. So, if it wants to compete in the top 25 consistently - it has to have a defensive identity.
They do. Pay attention.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 06, 2020, 04:29:29 PM
MU isn't going to get the elite recruits that are long, can score, etc. So, if it wants to compete in the top 25 consistently - it has to have a defensive identity.
Seriously, have you been paying any attention to the incoming recruit class?
Quote from: tower912 on January 06, 2020, 06:05:56 PM
Seriously, have you been paying any attention to the incoming recruit class?
No. He still thinks RPI is a thing.
Quote from: tower912 on January 06, 2020, 06:05:56 PM
Seriously, have you been paying any attention to the incoming recruit class?
I heard the same thing about the Henry Ellenson class.....
Even if their talent is up to expectation - How are we going to play NCAA tourney caliber defense without a system? Or does that trickster Wojo have something up his sleeve beside your soul?
Not to mention, you act as if this is the norm now. How does one conclude that after the prior 5-6 recruiting classes dictated otherwise?
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 06, 2020, 07:55:44 PM
I heard the same thing about the Henry Ellenson class.....
Even if their talent is up to expectation - How are we going to play NCAA tourney caliber defense without a system? Or does that trickster Wojo have something up his sleeve beside your soul?
Not to mention, you act as if this is the norm now. How does one conclude that after the prior 5-6 recruiting classes dictated otherwise?
You want Dayton in the Big East
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 06, 2020, 07:55:44 PM
I heard the same thing about the Henry Ellenson class.....
Even if their talent is up to expectation - How are we going to play NCAA tourney caliber defense without a system? Or does that trickster Wojo have something up his sleeve beside your soul?
Not to mention, you act as if this is the norm now. How does one conclude that after the prior 5-6 recruiting classes dictated otherwise?
The past 5-6 dictated otherwise? One class had our all time leading scorer, and a phenomenal player we got three great years out of, and another darn good player who's starting to come into his own after his two year break. Another had an NBA player, and a guy who's been our best defender and a real solid contributor since redshirting. How are you going to sit there and act like all the classes have been busts?
The hypocrisy of ignoring ratings/rankings that show direct opposition to your viewpoint is obvious to everyone.
Troll on though.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on January 06, 2020, 08:12:03 PM
The past 5-6 dictated otherwise? One class had our all time leading scorer, and a phenomenal player we got three great years out of, and another darn good player who's starting to come into his own after his two year break. Another had an NBA player, and a guy who's been our best defender and a real solid contributor since redshirting. How are you going to sit there and act like all the classes have been busts?
He wants Dayton in the Big East....
Quote from: Galway Eagle on January 06, 2020, 08:15:15 PM
Enough said.
keefe has always wanted Dayton in the Big East.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 06, 2020, 08:14:45 PM
He wants Dayton in the Big East....
When I made that comment, Archie Miller was at the helm. He's done things at Dayton that Wojo may never replicate at MU. Miller actually knows how to run and coach a program.
Quote from: PTM on January 06, 2020, 08:18:55 PM
keefe has always wanted Dayton in the Big East.
Same poster?
Thought he was Baby David or whatever.
Multiple active screen names? Crazytown
Quote from: PTM on January 06, 2020, 08:18:55 PM
keefe has always wanted Dayton in the Big East.
Keefe wanted Gonzaga, I don't recall Dayton...but who knows.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 06, 2020, 08:23:52 PM
When I made that comment, Archie Miller was at the helm. He's done things at Dayton that Wojo may never replicate at MU. Miller actually knows how to run and coach a program.
The folks at Indiana might well disagree.
Quote from: PTM on January 06, 2020, 08:18:55 PM
keefe has always wanted Dayton in the Big East.
You mean the guy who would, unprovoked, lash out and insult all firefighters (real heroes) as a group and lacked the introspection to realise he was being a jerk then lashed out at me when I called him on it rather than taking a look in the mirror?
Yeah... I don't have the highest opinion of him either.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 06, 2020, 08:23:52 PM
When I made that comment, Archie Miller was at the helm. He's done things at Dayton that Wojo may never replicate at MU. Miller actually knows how to run and coach a program.
He's doing a helluva job at Indiana.
Another mid-major star who seemingly can't hack it as a big-boy coach.
Quote from: MU82 on January 06, 2020, 10:23:39 PM
He's doing a helluva job at Indiana.
Another mid-major star who seemingly can't hack it as a big-boy coach.
Well, if we go by the Wojo rule he gets at least 6 years to prove himself, right?
He's in year 3 right now. His first recruiting class is turning into upperclassmen this year. There's a ways to go when evaluating him. This year and next year are the defining points of his career at Indiana. He might just turn out like Shaka Smart.
Nonetheless, in 2014 I asked for Archie Miller's Dayton program to come into the Big East - not Indiana.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 06, 2020, 10:36:39 PM
Well, if we go by the Wojo rule he gets at least 6 years to prove himself, right?
He's in year 3 right now. His first recruiting class is turning into upperclassmen this year. There's a ways to go when evaluating him. This year and next year are the defining points of his career at Indiana. He might just turn out like Shaka Smart.
Nonetheless, in 2014 I asked for Archie Miller's Dayton program to come into the Big East - not Indiana.
Glad your wish wasn't granted.
Quote from: MU82 on January 06, 2020, 10:38:00 PM
Glad your wish wasn't granted.
They are ranked 15th..... and have had more success than MU since 2014.
I mean.... what's another quality opponent in the Big East? It only benefits us all. Not sure what your rationale is or if you have any for that matter.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 06, 2020, 10:48:51 PM
They are ranked 15th..... and have had more success than MU since 2014.
I mean.... what's another quality opponent in the Big East? It only benefits us all. Not sure what your rationale is or if you have any for that matter.
BEast has been fine without em.
I highly recommend you move to Dayton so you can go to all of their games.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on January 06, 2020, 08:50:11 PM
You mean the guy who would, unprovoked, lash out and insult all firefighters (real heroes) as a group and lacked the introspection to realise he was being a jerk then lashed out at me when I called him on it rather than taking a look in the mirror?
Yeah... I don't have the highest opinion of him either.
There is no such thing as a universal hero regardless of profession. Most firefighters are awesome, most cops, most teachers, most soldiers, etc....but not all. I suspect Keefe was calling some out and used too broad of words.
Keefe was a soldier. What happened to him?
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 06, 2020, 10:48:51 PM
They are ranked 15th..... and have had more success than MU since 2014.
I mean.... what's another quality opponent in the Big East? It only benefits us all. Not sure what your rationale is or if you have any for that matter.
Dayton since 2014 (Ken Pom)
42
59
39
172
62
7
MU
93
97
32
53
33
31
I guess you get to pick and choose with your data again, because your statement is false.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 06, 2020, 11:19:33 PM
Dayton since 2014 (Ken Pom)
42
59
39
172
62
7
MU
93
97
32
53
33
31
I guess you get to pick and choose with your data again, because your statement is false.
Is this what Wojo brings into his yearly review?
Do you have a KenPom tramp stamp by any chance? Remember in 2017 NCAA Tourney, when South Carolina bent over KenPom when it had them ranked 24th?
You stat boys need to play the game, otherwise your data sets are 2 dimensional at best.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 06, 2020, 11:48:45 PM
Is this what Wojo brings into his yearly review?
Do you have a KenPom tramp stamp by any chance? Remember in 2017 NCAA Tourney, when South Carolina bent over KenPom when it had them ranked 24th?
You stat boys need to play the game, otherwise your data sets are 2 dimensional at best.
You made the false comment, I provided the data so you couldn't claim it was biased. Just straight data.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 06, 2020, 11:06:35 PM
There is no such thing as a universal hero regardless of profession. Most firefighters are awesome, most cops, most teachers, most soldiers, etc....but not all. I suspect Keefe was calling some out and used too broad of words.
Between the four I'll take the firefighters as closest to universal hero.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 06, 2020, 11:06:35 PM
I suspect Keefe was calling some out and used too broad of words.
Nope, not at all.
His ego couldn't handle the fact that the firefighters on Scoop were getting more respect than he was, despite him constantly touting his self-proclaimed superiority to all mortals, so he clumsily tried to belittle them. He only succeeded in making himself a bigger ass than he already was. I suspect he was still feeling burned for getting called out for plagiarizing from a holocaust-denier website and he lashed out.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;u=8299;area=showposts;start=0
"Meanwhile, you took that expensive Jesuit education and got a job as a firefighter. Now, don't get me wrong, as a fighter pilot, I was always comforted by the presence of those brave young men and women who stood at the ready on the flight line in their crash trucks. But I rather doubt that very many actually had college degrees because the job simply doesn't require it.
So, while some of us are making a real difference in clean power generation others have settled for less in life. You say you called me on "plagiarizing"?? I would dare say that some of us have created real value in this world while others sit around waiting for the bell to ring.
<snip>
You and Brew attempt to lay claim to some self-proclaimed expertise on college basketball. Fact is, your lack of professional intensity allows you more time to think about the subject though not really offering any meaningful insight."
Quote from: Cheeks on January 06, 2020, 11:19:33 PM
Dayton since 2014 (Ken Pom)
42
59
39
172
62
7
MU
93
97
32
53
33
31
I guess you get to pick and choose with your data again, because your statement is false.
Based on the data you provided, that would say Dayton is deserving of a spot in the conference. Outside of one outlier year, they've been a pretty darn good program in recent years. Outside of that one outlier, they've been better than MU if you're looking solely at KenPom numbers (but that's just picking and choosing data). Plus they've had some success in March and won a few conference titles. Sure, it's all in the A-10, but that's a pretty good resume. I think Dayton could be a good addition to the conference.
Quote from: skianth16 on January 07, 2020, 08:37:57 AM
Based on the data you provided, that would say Dayton is deserving of a spot in the conference. Outside of one outlier year, they've been a pretty darn good program in recent years. Outside of that one outlier, they've been better than MU if you're looking solely at KenPom numbers (but that's just picking and choosing data). Plus they've had some success in March and won a few conference titles. Sure, it's all in the A-10, but that's a pretty good resume. I think Dayton could be a good addition to the conference.
No one is "deserving" of a spot in the BE unless they bring more value than everyone else would lose by cutting an extra slice of the pie. Dayton doesn't bring that value. UConn did. Notre Dame does. Gonzaga would if they weren't so darn far away.
I really doubt after the UConn add that the BE expands anytime soon.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on January 07, 2020, 08:42:29 AM
No one is "deserving" of a spot in the BE unless they bring more value than everyone else would lose by cutting an extra slice of the pie. Dayton doesn't bring that value. UConn did. Notre Dame does. Gonzaga would if they weren't so darn far away.
I really doubt after the UConn add that the BE expands anytime soon.
I'm not all that well versed in the TV contract with FS1, but I would think there are some opportunities out there for expansion that could help grow the overall pie enough to be worthwhile. There are a handful of A10 teams that could get the conference into some new areas, and that could help grow viewership and revenue. And maybe there's a football school or two out there like UConn that would rather prioritize basketball.
I like the conference right now, but I don't think it's a waste of time to look for ways to improve it. 20 years ago, I'm sure plenty of Big East fans would have scoffed at adding schools like Butler, Creighton, DePaul, and even Marquette.
Quote from: skianth16 on January 07, 2020, 09:01:12 AM
I'm not all that well versed in the TV contract with FS1, but I would think there are some opportunities out there for expansion that could help grow the overall pie enough to be worthwhile. There are a handful of A10 teams that could get the conference into some new areas, and that could help grow viewership and revenue. And maybe there's a football school or two out there like UConn that would rather prioritize basketball.
I like the conference right now, but I don't think it's a waste of time to look for ways to improve it. 20 years ago, I'm sure plenty of Big East fans would have scoffed at adding schools like Butler, Creighton, DePaul, and even Marquette.
With the addition of UConn and the expansion to a 20 game season, the BE is going from playing 90 to 110 conference games. Those 20 extra games do bring value. But, considering that Fox owns part of the B10 contract, does it really want or need the additional 10 games that an addition like Dayton would bring?
Remember when that whack-job Dayton fan used to come on here and claim that 1. Dayton would never accept a Big East bid even if it was offered; and 2. The A-10 was better than the Big East?
Fun times.
ABD
Quote from: MU82 on January 07, 2020, 09:38:43 AM
Remember when that whack-job Dayton fan used to come on here and claim that 1. Dayton would never accept a Big East bid even if it was offered; and 2. The A-10 was better than the Big East?
Fun times.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=34539.msg422884#msg422884
It is hilarious how wrong someone could be in one post.
And this one...
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=33574.msg408366#msg408366
"I can tell you from the A10's perspective, those institutions are not going anywhere -- namely Xavier, Dayton, St. Louis, Butler, St. Joe, etc. The league just expanded with Butler and VCU and is the best basketball only league in the country.
There is zero incentive for some of those schools to pick up and leave the complete security, certainty, and future of the A10, for some half-baked new conference in a new world order of college athletics that has exit fees, entrance fees, unknown certainty, unknown security, new rivals, new geographies, new travel partners, no TV package, and no automatic postseason NCAA bid.
The A10 members are exactly where they want to be. They are ALREADY in a good, stable, secure basketball conference with 100% security. The postseason tourney is moving to the Barclays Center in Brooklyn this season. Everything about the league is on the up-tick. It is a destination league for basketball schools -- not an exit platform. The only schools leaving are those with grandiose, half-baked plans for BCS football."
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on January 07, 2020, 09:47:47 AM
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=34539.msg422884#msg422884
It is hilarious how wrong someone could be in one post.
This or Bamas Smackdown of ners are my favorite posts in scoop history.
I have zero problem with reading other opinions here. Just the opposite -- one of the biggest reasons I come to MUScoop is for other perspectives on Marquette basketball. For all the endless and pointless arguments, I've actually learned a lot here.
Whether I agree or disagree with you, MikeDeanesDarkGlasses, I can appreciate you clearly put some thought into your posts. What I primarily object to is the way you state your own opinions as fact. That, along with your pompous, argumentative and overly dramatic tone.
Some examples just from this thread:
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 02, 2020, 11:53:14 AMAfter a long hiatus, I've returned. Several years ago I called for the firing of Wojo, critiquing his poor coaching. The moderators tried to shut me down for voicing an opinion supported by facts. Time hath proven me correct.
Was
anybody on the board pining for your return? OMG, get over yourself.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 02, 2020, 11:53:14 AMLack of continuity on defense. No system whatsoever.
You repeatedly state this without offering any evidence whatsoever. Wojo has talked about his defensive philosophy in multiple articles, interviews and basketball clinics. If you've attended any of the team's open practices, they spend approximately half the time on defensive drills. The system is right there for everyone to see. He's even released a video on the very subject (Tactics, Techniques and Drills for Man Defense).By every measure I'm aware of, Marquette's defense has improved over the last two seasons to become one of the best in the Big East. KenPom, for instance, ranked MU #2 in the conference in defensive efficiency for the 2018-19 season.Unsubstantiated statements like this one simply erode your credibility.Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 02, 2020, 12:15:09 PMMU moderators wouldn't be the first people in history to shut down genius insight. Had MU taken my advice, the program could be year 3 into a much more viable coach rather than continue to put up with Wojo's incompetence.
There's nothing wrong with thinking you're smart. You probably are pretty smart. It's good to have a healthy sense of self-esteem. But appointing yourself a genius -- and loudly bragging about it -- suggests a deep insecurity about how others perceive you.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 05, 2020, 04:35:35 PMIt seems most people on here don't know how to recognize a top 25 coach.
Once again, you're right and everybody else is wrong. Hmmm...
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 06, 2020, 03:18:38 PMThe Monotone Whisperer just isn't a good coach all around.
That's the third time in this thread you mention Wojo's "monotone" public speaking style, which you say is "uninspiring." An expressive public speaking style is not a prerequisite for effective leadership or success. Just listen to Coach K, Jim Boeheim, Gregg Popovich, Bill Belichick, Nick Saban, Brad Stevens, et cetera. If that's one of the best critiques you have, again, you're undermining your own argument.Your best point is that Wojo hasn't won much of anything yet. No disagreement here. Making the NCAA tournament is a clear sign of progress and a key indicator of success -- you can't make a deep tourney run without first earning a bid -- but it's not the end goal. Like every other poster here, I want more from the MU program.Based on Wojo's record to date, you may believe you've seen the best he has to offer, and that he will not improve further as a head coach. That's your opinion. It's in no way an undisputed fact.