With our non-conference schedule finished, Marquette's .42657 percentage from 3-point range ranks third nationally behind McNeese (.44275) and St. Mary's (.44268).
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/statistics/team/_/stat/3-points
We are No. 1 among P6 teams -- well ahead of Ohio State (.409) and Oregon (.408), both of whom play today. Nobody else is at 40%.
When factoring games involving only two D1 schools, we are No. 1.
https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/three-point-pct
If you had told me before the season that any of the above would be the case, I wouldn't have believed you. 3-point shooting, rebounding and taking care of the basketball were my three main concerns going in. We aren't a great rebounding team and we have had way too many turnovers (ranked 246th in TO per game!), but we have shot the lights out most games -- despite McEwen being in a deep, deep slump.
Only 3 times all season have we shot under 35%. Eight times .375 or better ... and fully half our games have been at .474 or better.
Our second-worst shooting game from 3 came against Purdue (.280) but we were able to win it anyway, which I take as a positive sign. Our worst was against Robert Morris (.250), when Wojo seemingly made Markus a decoy to prove a point. (Markus took only four 3s, and the team took 16, both season lows.)
We are 111th in 3-point attempts per game (23.833) but 11th in 3s made per game (10.167). This would suggest that, if anything, we aren't taking enough of 'em!
Individually: Markus is at .484, Elliott .480, Sacar .459, Bailey .409, Cain .409, Symir .357, Koby .319.
Our opponents are shooting .296, ranking us 49th in 3-point defense. We are outscoring opponents by about 12 ppg from behind the arc.
Obviously, we are about to start facing some really good Big East defenses in some super-competitive games. Can we keep up this pace? Here's hoping!
I am not surprised we are shooting so well from 3. I am surprised how we are getting them and I am surprised we are not doing better from 2. Wojo has shown that he can implement an offense that gets good looks from 3. The ball is moving and no one is forcing it. And before anyone says Markus, (a) he has earned the ultimate green light and (b) with others out there dribbling, cutting and moving he is not playing nearly as much hero ball this year.
So much for the theory that the departure of the letter-writers would kill our outside shooting....
I just want to point out the reverse as 82 touched on it...to date, MU's opponents eFG% is 10th in KPom and at the lowest level since the 1997 Mike Deane team. Two point defense is at 41%, which is the second best to that 1997 team which led the country.
Two stats stand out to me: 1) MU is 349th (higher number is better) in 2 foul participation with only 0.1% of the minutes played with two fouls in the first half, and 2) opponent average possession length is 17.5 seconds (215th) versus 15.7 for MU (fast). Depth, switchables, and protecting the paint by delaying the initiation of opponents' offense has made a difference.
Quote from: MU82 on December 29, 2019, 07:31:42 AM
we have had way too many turnovers (ranked 246th in TO per game!)
On this point, the TOs look worse than they actually are. We play at a blistering tempo (top 20 in the country) meaning there are a lot of possessions in the game. Our per game stats, both the good and the bad, are going to be exaggerated as a result. You gotta look at the tempo free stats to get the true story. Our TO% is 19.9% which ranks 199th. Still not good, but at lot better than 246th.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 29, 2019, 10:38:25 AM
I just want to point out the reverse as 82 touched on it...to date, MU's opponents eFG% is 10th in KPom and at the lowest level since the 1997 Mike Deane team. Two point defense is at 41%, which is the second best to that 1997 team which led the country.
Two stats stand out to me: 1) MU is 349th (higher number is better) in 2 foul participation with only 0.1% of the minutes played with two fouls in the first half, and 2) opponent average possession length is 17.5 seconds (215th) versus 15.7 for MU (fast). Depth, switchables, and protecting the paint by delaying the initiation of opponents' offense has made a difference.
This is encouraging as it is likely more sustainable than being able to count on being Number 1 in 3pt shooting. As has been said: "Defense travels."
That aside I was not expecting us to shoot so well from 3 this season. Helps with Markus taking 40% of all of our shots and him being up 8% on the year over last - yet Sacar, Bailey, Cain and Elliott all +40% from 3? Incredible.
Quote from: tower912 on December 29, 2019, 08:09:43 AM
I am surprised we are not doing better from 2.
I am also surprised by this but we have found an interesting way to make up for it. Our FTR is currently 44.6 which is good for third in the nation. The D1 average is 31.9 so that is an absurd number. Unfortunately, we are also in the bottom third for opponent's FTR. So if it seems like all of our games have been whistle happy foul fests, you aren't wrong. As annoying as that is, rosters with depth like ours have an advantage in those types of games.
Quote from: MU82 on December 29, 2019, 07:31:42 AM
With our non-conference schedule finished, Marquette's .42657 percentage from 3-point range ranks third nationally behind McNeese (.44275) and St. Mary's (.44268).
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/statistics/team/_/stat/3-points
We are No. 1 vs p5 teams -- well ahead of Ohio State (.409) and Oregon (.408), both of whom play today. Nobody else is at 40%.
When factoring games involving only two D1 schools, we are No. 1.
https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/three-point-pct
If you had told me before the season that any of the above would be the case, I wouldn't have believed you. 3-point shooting, rebounding and taking care of the basketball were my three main concerns going in. We aren't a great rebounding team and we have had way too many turnovers (ranked 246th in TO per game!), but we have shot the lights out most games -- despite McEwen being in a deep, deep slump.
Only 3 times all season have we shot under 35%. Eight times .375 or better ... and fully half our games have been at .474 or better.
Our second-worst shooting game from 3 came against Purdue (.280) but we were able to win it anyway, which I take as a positive sign. Our worst was against Robert Morris (.250), when Wojo seemingly made Markus a decoy to prove a point. (Markus took only four 3s, and the team took 16, both season lows.)
We are 111th in 3-point attempts per game (23.833) but 11th in 3s made per game (10.167). This would suggest that, if anything, we aren't taking enough of 'em!
Individually: Markus is at .484, Elliott .480, Sacar .459, Bailey .409, Cain .409, Symir .357, Koby .319.
Our opponents are shooting .296, ranking us 49th in 3-point defense. We are outscoring opponents by about 12 ppg from behind the arc.
Obviously, we are about to start facing some really good Big East defenses in some super-competitive games. Can we keep up this pace? Here's hoping!
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 29, 2019, 10:38:25 AM
I just want to point out the reverse as 82 touched on it...to date, MU's opponents eFG% is 10th in KPom and at the lowest level since the 1997 Mike Deane team. Two point defense is at 41%, which is the second best to that 1997 team which led the country.
Two stats stand out to me: 1) MU is 349th (higher number is better) in 2 foul participation with only 0.1% of the minutes played with two fouls in the first half, and 2) opponent average possession length is 17.5 seconds (215th) versus 15.7 for MU (fast). Depth, switchables, and protecting the paint by delaying the initiation of opponents' offense has made a difference.
My take on the 2 point participation is that when our guys get 2 fouls they sit...not that they hardly ever got 2 fouls.
We are fouling quite a bit. We rank 247 in FTA/ FGA defensively.
Fortunately we are 3rd in the country offensively in that category.
Quote from: MuMark on December 29, 2019, 11:44:51 AM
My take on the 2 point participation is that when our guys get 2 fouls they sit...not that they hardly ever got 2 fouls.
Well, yeah.. the calculation takes into account what happens WHEN they get 2 fouls. So, uh.. by definition... yeah
Quote from: MU82 on December 29, 2019, 07:31:42 AM
With our non-conference schedule finished, Marquette's .42657 percentage from 3-point range ranks third nationally behind McNeese (.44275) and St. Mary's (.44268).
lol, ust noticed St. has played FOUR flippin games against non-DI teams.. and shot 60/114 from deep - 52.6% - in those games. They drop to #27 when looking at D-I games only. 1 D-I victory all season. Shameful!
When will all the summer panickers admit i was correct about the loss of the turnstile brothers?
I basicallly predicted this entire thread sans the ftr n turnover rates
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on December 29, 2019, 01:18:05 PM
When will all the summer panickers admit i was correct about the loss of the turnstile brothers?
I basicallly predicted this entire thread sans the ftr n turnover rates
Might be prudent to see where rankings end at season's end.
We are currently 37th in Pomeroy in Defense, we finished last year at 45th.
We are a very "old" team this season..we should be solid on defense. Sacar and Ed in 5th years, Markus, Jayce, Koby in their 4th years, Bailey's 22, Jamal, Theo, Greg in year 3.
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on December 29, 2019, 10:54:57 AM
On this point, the TOs look worse than they actually are. We play at a blistering tempo (top 20 in the country) meaning there are a lot of possessions in the game. Our per game stats, both the good and the bad, are going to be exaggerated as a result. You gotta look at the tempo free stats to get the true story. Our TO% is 19.9% which ranks 199th. Still not good, but at lot better than 246th.
Still need to take care of the ball better, and you seemingly agree.
Also encouraged by our defense, as others noted, but it was the 3-point shooting that surprised me so much and inspired this thread.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on December 29, 2019, 01:18:05 PM
When will all the summer panickers admit i was correct about the loss of the turnstile brothers?
I basicallly predicted this entire thread sans the ftr n turnover rates
We would be a significantly better team this season if Sam and Joey had stayed.
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on December 29, 2019, 02:47:01 PM
We would be a significantly better team this season if Sam and Joey had stayed.
Sam, for sure.
Joey ... not so sure. I kind of like the length, defense and athleticism we have with Brendan and Jamal on the court instead.
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on December 29, 2019, 02:47:01 PM
We would be a significantly better team this season if Sam and Joey had stayed.
Unlikely we are significantly better if both are still here.
Might be a stretch even if you assume both stayed because they are completely happy here.
If S&J had stayed others may have left. maybe Symir doesn't reclassify. Maybe Jayce stays away. Maybe the team looks like the 23-4 start, maybe the team looks like the 1-6 finish.
They gowne.
Go Marquette.
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on December 29, 2019, 02:47:01 PM
We would be a significantly better team this season if Sam and Joey had stayed.
Maybe, but what if 3-4 others left because of it? Or if they and Markus feuded?
We'll never know.
I wish Sam had stayed, but it doesn't matter what I would have liked or you or anybody else. They're not walking back through that door.
I like our team, filled with Warriors who want to be Warriors.
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on December 29, 2019, 02:47:01 PM
We would be a significantly better team this season if Sam and Joey had stayed.
It appeared that Sam and Joey had decided they would stay only if Markus declared for the draft. So no - we would not be a better team if Sam and Joey had stayed.
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on December 29, 2019, 02:47:01 PM
We would be a significantly better team this season if Sam and Joey had stayed.
Completely 100% disagree. I enjoy watching this years team much better than last years team with better athletes, higher intensity, more team chemistry and more entertaining basketball. The fact that MU is potentially better than last years team or what this years team would have been with the Hauser's, makes the transfers all the better for Marquette. Also, as others have stated, if the Hauser's had stayed, others were going to leave and not only would this years team be worse, it would have very likely been significantly worse. Nice to see something that at that the time seemed a huge negative for Marquette, turn out to actually be a positive. Lastly, them leaving has obviously not hurt recruiting and has potentially helped it. Imagine someone wanting to play with Joey Hauser as a teammate. I do not think we get all three recruits that have signed if Joey had stayed.
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on December 29, 2019, 02:47:01 PM
We would be a significantly better team this season if Sam and Joey had stayed.
Hard to know this for sure. Entirely possible other players may have left for larger opportunities, and Jayce likely wouldn't be here.
I think we would have been better to start the year, but we may have a higher ceiling with the team that stayed. But ultimately impossible to know.
No point in looking back at the what if's, particularly when the conference games have not started. The real tests are yet to come.
And furthermore ... this thread isn't about the effen Hausers.
How 'bout that 3-point shooting?!?!
Quote from: MU82 on December 29, 2019, 06:29:03 PM
And furthermore ... this thread isn't about the effen Hausers.
How 'bout that 3-point shooting?!?!
It's only about a third through the season, but feeling pretty good about this post now:
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 19, 2019, 05:29:51 AMIn theory, the shooting is already here. Anim shot 39.1% last year, McEwen shot 36% in two years at USU, Cain & Elliott both showed promise as freshmen, and Bailey shot 42.1% over the last 6 games. If we can put 2-3 guys alongside Howard that at least need to be respected at the arc, we should be okay.
But that is, admittedly, hoping for sustained success from guys who've mostly only done it in small sample sizes or with low usage.
I never imagined it would play out to having the best three-point shooting team in the nation at the New Year, but the pieces were in place ;)
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 29, 2019, 06:33:20 PM
It's only about a third through the season, but feeling pretty good about this post now:
I never imagined it would play out to having the best three-point shooting team in the nation at the New Year, but the pieces were in place ;)
You da man!
Yikes, I see I violated the company line. Out of a desire to avoid yet another thread about the Hausers, I will leave it at that.
But I will say that my post disagreed with Sand Knit. I usually find that if I'm disagreeing with sand knit, I am in the right.
Quote from: Pakuni on December 29, 2019, 03:22:03 PM
Sam, for sure.
Joey ... not so sure. I kind of like the length, defense and athleticism we have with Brendan and Jamal on the court instead.
You can be sure. Crazy that people don't understand how good Joey is.
Quote from: MU1980 on December 29, 2019, 04:32:36 PM
Completely 100% disagree. I enjoy watching this years team much better than last years team with better athletes, higher intensity, more team chemistry and more entertaining basketball. The fact that MU is potentially better than last years team or what this years team would have been with the Hauser's, makes the transfers all the better for Marquette. Also, as others have stated, if the Hauser's had stayed, others were going to leave and not only would this years team be worse, it would have very likely been significantly worse. Nice to see something that at that the time seemed a huge negative for Marquette, turn out to actually be a positive. Lastly, them leaving has obviously not hurt recruiting and has potentially helped it. Imagine someone wanting to play with Joey Hauser as a teammate. I do not think we get all three recruits that have signed if Joey had stayed.
Haha u sound like me 9 months ago
Marquette's three-point shooting to date has been far better than anyone could have expected. After averaging 38.8% last season (12th nationally), I thought a drop to around 36% was reasonable -- still well above the national average. I didn't foresee a scenario where MU's percentage from beyond the arc would actually improve.
As one of the major offseason question marks, that's a huge plus.
Two-point shooting is a mystery to me. It seems to mostly come down to two players -- Markus and Koby -- who are both converting at career low rates inside the arc:
Markus
2019-20: 39.1%
Career: 46.5%
Koby
2019-20: 31.6%
Career: 46.8%
Markus is first on the team in two-point attempts (92). Koby is fourth (38). I'm not too alarmed about this. Over the course of multiple seasons and hundreds of shots, Markus and Koby have proven that they can convert at a good percentage. I chalk up the falloff to small sample size and playing with new teammates. Beyond that, MU is getting to the line at an incredible rate.
Turnovers remain my single biggest concern for the rest of the season. Of teams KenPom ranks in the Top 25, only three turn the ball over at a higher rate than Marquette:
#2 Kansas 20.1% (201st)
#3 Ohio St. 20.2% (208th)
#17 W. Virginia 20.0% (204th)
MU also currently owns the third-worst turnover percentage in the Big East, ahead of only Georgetown and DePaul. That's not exactly encouraging.
If MU is going to have any chance to earn a Big East title and a high seed (4 or better) in the tournament, I don't think they can afford to give away so many empty possessions.
This is definitely anecdotal, but I wonder how many of Howard's misses are drives where he expected to get a foul. I feel like he often will go in seeking contact and it often leads to poor shots when he doesn't get the call. As he's literally the best player in the country in terms of fouls drawn/40 minutes, and the only sub-6' player in the top-25, I don't blame him, but it feels like there are quite a few unanswered prayers he's thrown up while going into contact that neither God nor zebra acknowledged.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 30, 2019, 11:39:20 AM
This is definitely anecdotal, but I wonder how many of Howard's misses are drives where he expected to get a foul. I feel like he often will go in seeking contact and it often leads to poor shots when he doesn't get the call. As he's literally the best player in the country in terms of fouls drawn/40 minutes, and the only sub-6' player in the top-25, I don't blame him, but it feels like there are quite a few unanswered prayers he's thrown up while going into contact that neither God nor zebra acknowledged.
Agree with all of this. Not sure how much I want him to change about it, though. Maybe go in with a little more control, not assuming he'll draw a foul. But I still want him to drive, still want him to draw contact, so maybe we have to take the little bit of bad with all the good he does.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on December 29, 2019, 08:59:26 PM
Haha u sound like me 9 months ago
I think many people felt this way 9 months ago, but didn't necessarily post their thoughts. For me personally I very rarely post, but it just amazes me that there are people that are not happy with the makeup of this team and think that we would be better with the Hausers, even knowing we would have lost other players to transfer. Losing Joey helped the team Chemistry tremendously and that is a huge part of a teams success.
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 29, 2019, 07:46:19 PM
You can be sure. Crazy that people don't understand how good Joey is.
Joey has outstanding basketball skills. Shooting, passing, rebounding, etc.
But I am glad he is gone for 2 reasons. Lack of athleticism and attitude.
I don't think the first is enough to offset the second.
Quote from: Jockey on December 30, 2019, 05:37:26 PM
Joey has outstanding basketball skills. Shooting, passing, rebounding, etc.
But I am glad he is gone for 2 reasons. Lack of athleticism and attitude.
I don't think the first is enough to offset the second.
Let's settle this objectively via ValueAdd. Sam is a lot harder to replace than Joey. It takes a village (and it's working so far) to replace both. Oakland A's Moneyball, people.
http://valueaddbasketball.com/
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 30, 2019, 05:59:28 PM
Let's settle this objectively via ValueAdd. Sam is a lot harder to replace than Joey. It takes a village (and it's working so far) to replace both. Oakland A's Moneyball, people.
http://valueaddbasketball.com/
Sam was going to be a senior. Joey aub his second year of competition. That's where the big diff is. We shall see...
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 30, 2019, 06:03:59 PM
Sam was going to be a senior. Joey aub his second year of competition. That's where the big diff is. We shall see...
I agree. But, Joey's biggest blocker for Value Add was Sam, not Markus. The family finally realized that after 9 weeks in limbo. Both will be stars elsewhere, but Wojo needs to replace these two. So far so good.
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 30, 2019, 06:03:59 PM
Sam was going to be a senior. Joey aub his second year of competition. That's where the big diff is. We shall see...
Are you pro Joey or pro Dawson?