Poll
Question:
Which Players Should Have Their Jersey Retired
Option 1: 0 - Markus Howard
Option 2: 10 - Tony Miller
Option 3: 20 - Steve Novak
Option 4: 22 - Jim Chones
Option 5: 22 - Jerel McNeal
Option 6: 23 - Wesley Matthews
Option 7: 32 - Jae Crowder
Option 8: 32 - Lazar Hayward
Option 9: 33 - Jimmy Butler
Option 10: 34 - Travis Diener
Option 11: 34 - Jim McIlvaine
Option 12: 35 - Damon Key
Option 13: XX - Rick Majerus
Which Marquette players do you believe should have their jersey retired? I am assuming it is only a jersey retirement and not a number retirement so don't worry about limited usable numbers in the future.
If you don't see an option, let me know and I will add it.
Currently the lists consists of:
3 Dwyane Wade
11 Apollo 11
14 Dean Meminger
15 Butch Lee
20 Maurice Lucas
24 George Thompson
31 Bo Ellis
31 Doc Rivers
38 Don Weingart
43 Earl Tatum
44 Don Kojis
77 Al McGuire
-- Hank Raymonds
I voted for Jim Chones and Markus Howard. I could easily be talked into Jae Crowder.
I didn't see Damon Key on the list ?-(
I thought retiring the jersey meant no one uses the number again either?
I am a strong proponent of re-using retired numbers. If you're lucky, you'll get to retire the same number twice some day.
No more numbers retired, please.
What about Rick Majerus? Most wins of any MU coach, not just basketball but all sports?
We should change "retired" to "honored". If we did that, I could see being a little more generous with players having their jerseys honored.
For straight out retired, my answer is none of the above, with the possible exception of Markus Howard if he is a First Team AA and/or leads us to a Final Four.
The number thing should be just for MUs mt Rushmore guys. Wade. Markus. George. Maybe 1 or 2 other guys
Markus, Jerel and Jae. national AA recognition (all 3), BE POY recognition (Jae and Markus), all-time scorers (Jerel and Markus)
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 27, 2019, 03:18:26 PM
What about Rick Majerus? Most wins of any MU coach, not just basketball but all sports?
?????
Under what criteria...outside of MU, at MU only while assistant coach....might as well do Tex Winter, then. Tat Shiely won 491 games at MU alone in basketball and volleyball as a head coach
Huge fan of all the guys on the list. Great college basketball players. IMO none quite reach the level of 'retire the jersey' though. That's a special kind of 'all time' recognition that every school or professional organization should be very careful and thoughtful to bestow upon a player.
I see only one slam dunk on there and I can guarantee you he will receive that honor....GUARANTEED. ;) If I were a betting man it will be while Wojo is still the coach.
The others, all kinds of arguments can be made for Jim...would love to see it, plenty of reasons people will have to say no for him and others on this list. Feels to me that some people are putting weight on what they did after MU as part of their criteria.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 27, 2019, 02:48:53 PM
I voted for Jim Chones and Markus Howard. I could easily be talked into Jae Crowder.
Jae only if he graduates, so take him off the list permanently.
Quote from: CTWarrior on December 27, 2019, 03:25:45 PM
For straight out retired, my answer is none of the above, with the possible exception of Markus Howard if he is a First Team AA and/or leads us to a Final Four.
Agreed. Chones would have likely had his #/jersey retired long ago had he stayed through his junior year and had some success in the '72 NCAA tournament. But 1 2/3 seasons wasn't enough of a career.
Quote from: Cheeks on December 27, 2019, 04:10:55 PM
?????
Under what criteria...outside of MU, at MU only while assistant coach....might as well do Tex Winter, then. Tat Shiely won 491 games at MU alone in basketball and volleyball as a head coach
I was off a bit as I thought Hank had two, not three years under Hickey. As a MU student assistant, assistant and head coach, Rick had 431 wins. Hank as an assistant and head coach (but not AD), had 437 wins. So, second to Hank, not counting Rick's Marquette High wins or Hanks freshman/JV wins.
My stated criteria, was in ANY sport, so GTFO with Tat Sheely. Tex Wnter coached here two years.
Markus and Chones. That's it.
Markus I think is the most worthy. I could be talked into Jae and Chones but the length of their careers is a valid concern IMHO.
Majerus is the most worthy to be honored on the list...but not by us. Utah and SLU should for sure.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 27, 2019, 06:16:23 PM
Markus and Chones. That's it.
These are the only two I would even consider. Honestly the rest are laughable. Good players sure but numbers retired good? Not even close!
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on December 27, 2019, 06:42:03 PM
Markus I think is the most worthy. I could be talked into Jae and Chones but the length of their careers is a valid concern IMHO.
Majerus is the most worthy to be honored on the list...but not by us. Utah and SLU should for sure.
I disagree. Rick and MU are inseparable in a very complicated and soulful dance.
Quote from: TAMU Garcia on December 27, 2019, 06:42:03 PM
Markus I think is the most worthy. I could be talked into Jae and Chones but the length of their careers is a valid concern IMHO.
Majerus is the most worthy to be honored on the list...but not by us. Utah and SLU should for sure.
What about the recognized and by best MU player of all time. 1st ballet hall of Famer. By the far the best we have ever had. Who cares if it 2 years. Wade is an automatic full retirement. What if Kobe Bryant played here for years? Lock
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 27, 2019, 06:47:01 PM
I disagree. Rick and MU are inseparable in a very complicated and soulful dance.
I understand they are inseparable, but you had to do the work while at MU.
Quote from: Johnny B on December 27, 2019, 07:06:40 PM
What about the recognized and by best MU player of all time. 1st ballet hall of Famer. By the far the best we have ever had. Who cares if it 2 years. Wade is an automatic full retirement. What if Kobe Bryant played here for years? Lock
Amen.No offense to those players on the list but to not have Rick before almost all of them is just naive. Tony Miller or Rick? Key? Mac? Doc?
But I get it...many didn't know Rick. Maybe the most brilliant basketball analytic mind in college hoops ever...maybe Bo Ryan was even with him? MU undergraduate and graduate degrees, million dollar donor. Mr. Marquette till his death.
Here is the best thing about MU and Rick, he learned from his MU failures and his MU education taught him that. To have Apollo on the rafters and not Rick is an outrage.
Quote from: Johnny B on December 27, 2019, 07:06:40 PM
What about the recognized and by best MU player of all time. 1st ballet hall of Famer. By the far the best we have ever had. Who cares if it 2 years. Wade is an automatic full retirement. What if Kobe Bryant played here for years? Lock
I said it was a concern, not a dealbreaker. Wade is clearly so good that it doesn't matter how long he was here. Chones may have been at that level too, before my time so I don't feel comfortable saying one way or another. Jae I don't think was despite him being one of my all time favorites.
None
I also say none. If you want to have a proper long term tradition of success there should be so many great players (and coaches) that you'd end up with no numbers left. Honor the players by hanging the jersey but retiring the number should be reserved for those who do something amazing for the program... like lead the team to an NCAA championship or multiple BEAST championships.
Marquette has retired 11 jerseys. Those in recognition of former players are No. 3 (Dwyane Wade), 14 (Dean Meminger), 15 (Butch Lee), 20 (Maurice Lucas), 24 (Thompson), 31 (Bo Ellis and Glenn 'Doc' Rivers), 43 (Earl Tatum) and 44 (Don Kojis).
The university also retired No. 11 in honor of the Apollo 11 crew, No. 38 in honor of the 38 years Robert Weingart served as athletic trainer and No. 77 in recognition of former head coach Al McGuire, who led the school to its 1977 national championship victory.
Marquette already re-used George Thompson's #24 for Haanif Cheatham (apparently with George's permission) and doesn't appear to have a specific policy about not re-using retired numbers... but IMHO it should.
XX isn't enough if you we're going for waist size
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 27, 2019, 05:06:00 PM
I was off a bit as I thought Hank had two, not three years under Hickey. As a MU student assistant, assistant and head coach, Rick had 431 wins. Hank as an assistant and head coach (but not AD), had 437 wins. So, second to Hank, not counting Rick's Marquette High wins or Hanks freshman/JV wins.
My stated criteria, was in ANY sport, so GTFO with Tat Sheely. Tex Wnter coached here two years.
Right, and Tat had more wins than Rick...right? She is the all time wins leader as a coach in MU history....all as a head coach. You are really going with assistant coach stuff? I like Rick, enjoyed meeting him and believe he is a college basket all all timer. I enjoyed his honesty about MU post Al and wish some of our fans would get the same clue that he understood and got clearly, though he vastly underappreciated how well we would do in the Big East. But going down to the student assistant feels a reach. i mentioned Tex because it was unclear what you were saying about Majerus and whether it extended beyond MU or not. Appreciate the clarity.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/2019/08/16/marquette-mens-basketball-team-retired-no-11-when-apollo-11-crew-visited-milwaukee/2000411001/
None.
Maybe jae or butler. Maybe
Quote from: #UnleashJayce on December 28, 2019, 07:55:04 AM
None.
Maybe jae or butler. Maybe
Not a chance with Jimmy. Loved the guy, but never did better than honorable mention all Big East.
Howard has done everything that Jae has - conference player of the year. Second team All American. Plus he's the program's leading scorer.
Markus will have his numbered retired when all is said and done.
No way would I retire some number for Rick. Accomplishments as an assistant coach don't mean much to me, and sure he was important to the program, but his best days of coaching were elsewhere. (I feel the same about Hank and the trainer too.)
Oh and I would "unretire" Apollo 11.
Where's Don Smolinski?
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 28, 2019, 08:06:29 AM
No way would I retire some number for Rick. Accomplishments as an assistant coach don't mean much to me, and sure he was important to the program, but his best days of coaching were elsewhere. (I feel the same about Hank and the trainer too.)
Oh and I would "unretire" Apollo 11.
You cannot "unretire" something....especially that one for so many reasons
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 28, 2019, 08:02:07 AM
Not a chance with Jimmy. Loved the guy, but never did better than honorable mention all Big East.
Howard has done everything that Jae has - conference player of the year. Second team All American. Plus he's the program's leading scorer.
Markus will have his numbered retired when all is said and done.
The last sentence is guaranteed to happen. ;)
Quote from: Cheeks on December 28, 2019, 10:24:34 AM
You cannot "unretire" something....especially that one for so many reasons
Just ask Michael Jordan whether you can unretire. Or any number of people in this world.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 28, 2019, 10:40:36 AM
Just ask Michael Jordan whether you can unretire. Or any number of people in this world.
I'm referencing the unretiring of the jersey number....yes, people can unretire. Naval ships can be brought out of mothballs. Etc.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 28, 2019, 08:02:07 AM
Howard has done everything that Jae has - conference player of the year. Second team All American. Plus he's the program's leading scorer.
Markus will have his numbered retired when all is said and done.
Maybe, but that was Jerel's exact situation. He was second team AA in 2009 and left as the program's leading scorer. He also left as the program's all time steals leader. Barring a final four run, I don't think there's an argument that exists for Markus that doesn't exist for Jerel.
Matt Heldt
Quote from: MUBurrow on December 28, 2019, 11:19:01 AM
Maybe, but that was Jerel's exact situation. He was second team AA in 2009 and left as the program's leading scorer. He also left as the program's all time steals leader. Barring a final four run, I don't think there's an argument that exists for Markus that doesn't exist for Jerel.
Being a two time all American will likely happen and that would be an argument for Markus over Jerel. But you do raise a great point
Quote from: MUBurrow on December 28, 2019, 11:19:01 AM
Maybe, but that was Jerel's exact situation. He was second team AA in 2009 and left as the program's leading scorer. He also left as the program's all time steals leader. Barring a final four run, I don't think there's an argument that exists for Markus that doesn't exist for Jerel.
Also, Jerel has postseason wins (and FWIW played in the NBA)
But at the same time Markus could win NPOY this year.
I voted for Chones, but that was mostly out of respect for the older dudes on Scoop, and so I could see the results of the poll. I would have voted 'none' if given the option.
Markus needs at least one postseason win to even be in the conversation, IMO.
Quote from: MUBurrow on December 28, 2019, 11:19:01 AM
Maybe, but that was Jerel's exact situation. He was second team AA in 2009 and left as the program's leading scorer. He also left as the program's all time steals leader. Barring a final four run, I don't think there's an argument that exists for Markus that doesn't exist for Jerel.
Jerel didn't break the scoring.mark by 600+ points