MUScoop

Markus is primed and ready for a Super Senior Season. Now that he is surrounded by a team of athletic players, and some quality guards,  he may find himself with much cleaner looks. So can he potentially score 60 points in a single game?

This is a just a fun summer poll to pass the time till season starts.

God I hope not.

Because if he does, we're either scoring 140 points in a game or the rest of the team has a serious offensive deficiency.

I'm gonna go with no, with the hopes that it's because Koby is finding other guys open when Markus is double- or triple-teamed.

I believe the correct term is "60 Burger".

But yeah, in a double OT game where he's out of his mind, a la Creighton?  I could see it.

Quote from: dgies9156 on June 30, 2019, 12:08:36 PM
God I hope not.

Because if he does, we're either scoring 140 points in a game or the rest of the team has a serious offensive deficiency.

This is exactly why he will score 60. And he will do it more then once. I don't have a good outlook on the year. I hope I'm wrong.

Well, this is far more likely than the 60% 3-point shooting that was being discussed a couple offseasons back ...

Quote from: Research Report on June 30, 2019, 12:25:25 PM
I believe the correct term is "60 Burger".

But yeah, in a double OT game where he's out of his mind, a la Creighton?  I could see it.

Yeah, that the way I see it 40 10  and 10

Quote from: dgies9156 on June 30, 2019, 12:08:36 PM
God I hope not.

Because if he does, we're either scoring 140 points in a game or the rest of the team has a serious offensive deficiency.

When Markus scores 36+ points, Marquette is 7-1. The only loss was a 100-90 result at Villanova where he also tallied 4 boards & 8 assists, accounting for more than half the team's points & we might have won if Rowsey was even just below average (2/12 from the field, 6 points).

I get the problem with bad selfish Markus, but when he goes into God Mode, we generally win.

Quote from: MU82 on June 30, 2019, 01:00:07 PM
Well, this is far more likely than the 60% 3-point shooting that was being discussed a couple offseasons back ...

....and still very unlikely to happen.

I think that first game of the season, Markus scoring 31+ is the easiest bet of the year. They'll want to insure he gets the record early so it's not a focus or talking point longer than need be.

As far as 60, I could see it, and if so probably in November when we have 5 tough games on the slate and won't have any other established dominant scorers yet. If Markus gets hot, that will be the time he has a shot to really drop a massive game.

Quote from: brewcity77 on June 30, 2019, 02:01:33 PM
When Markus scores 36+ points, Marquette is 7-1. The only loss was a 100-90 result at Villanova where he also tallied 4 boards & 8 assists, accounting for more than half the team's points & we might have won if Rowsey was even just below average (2/12 from the field, 6 points).

I get the problem with bad selfish Markus, but when he goes into God Mode, we generally win.

Agree with this. I have no problem with his usage being 35-40% when he is in "God Mode". But when "cold Markus" or just "normal Markus" shows up I wish he would take his foot off the accelerator a bit.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 30, 2019, 02:25:56 PM
Agree with this. I have no problem with his usage being 35-40% when he is in "God Mode". But when "cold Markus" or just "normal Markus" shows up I wish he would take his foot off the accelerator a bit.

Agreed. Hopefully having more depth in the backcourt will allow this. Last year it was really just him and Sacar when Chartouny proved to not have it. Adding Elliott (if healthy), McEwen, and at least one of Torrence or Akanno should make it a little easier for him to defer on those nights when the shots aren't falling.

Quote from: dgies9156 on June 30, 2019, 12:08:36 PM
God I hope not.

Because if he does, we're either scoring 140 points in a game or the rest of the team has a serious offensive deficiency.

How many times in college basketball history has a team had a player score 60 points...and lose. 

My guess is never.

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 30, 2019, 03:24:51 PM

How many times in college basketball history has a team had a player score 60 points...and lose. 

My guess is never.

Pete Maravich scored 60+ 3 times in the 1969-70 season. LSU won 1 of those games (vs Tulane 109-86) and lost 2 (121-105 to Kentucky and 106-104 to Alabama).

LSU finished 22-10 that season, losing in the NIT semis to champion Marquette 101-79.

Pete is the only guy I checked.

Quote from: brewcity77 on June 30, 2019, 02:18:54 PM
I think that first game of the season, Markus scoring 31+ is the easiest bet of the year. They'll want to insure he gets the record early so it's not a focus or talking point longer than need be.

As far as 60, I could see it, and if so probably in November when we have 5 tough games on the slate and won't have any other established dominant scorers yet. If Markus gets hot, that will be the time he has a shot to really drop a massive game.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 30, 2019, 02:25:56 PM
Agree with this. I have no problem with his usage being 35-40% when he is in "God Mode". But when "cold Markus" or just "normal Markus" shows up I wish he would take his foot off the accelerator a bit.

Quote from: brewcity77 on June 30, 2019, 02:56:46 PM
Agreed. Hopefully having more depth in the backcourt will allow this. Last year it was really just him and Sacar when Chartouny proved to not have it. Adding Elliott (if healthy), McEwen, and at least one of Torrence or Akanno should make it a little easier for him to defer on those nights when the shots aren't falling.

Excellent conversation, brew and Lenny. I agree with everything you both are saying.

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 30, 2019, 03:24:51 PM

How many times in college basketball history has a team had a player score 60 points...and lose. 

My guess is never.

Here you go.  I'll check more than the other guy, I have the stamina....D1 opponents vs D1 opponents.

Kevin Bradshaw scored 72 against Loyola Marymount and lost

The aforementioned Pete Maravich twice

Anthony Roberts 65 points against Oregon and lost in the NIT

There was another by a non D1 player against a D1 school (Furman), but I left it out.

Ners scored 60 points 60 times, mostly on dunks, but he only led his team to a 54-6 record in those games.

Of course hee will now dat Batman and Robin are ant in his wey, aina?

Will be hard to even get another 50 point game.

As long as Markus has 10 assists or more I don't care how many points he scores.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 30, 2019, 03:53:29 PM
Pete Maravich scored 60+ 3 times in the 1969-70 season. LSU won 1 of those games (vs Tulane 109-86) and lost 2 (121-105 to Kentucky and 106-104 to Alabama).

LSU finished 22-10 that season, losing in the NIT semis to champion Marquette 101-79.

Pete is the only guy I checked.

Maravich is the guy who I have seen in my life who most reminds me of Markus. At the risk of showing my age, I saw him play a couple of times when I was in junior high school.

Maravich was a great shooter and ball-handler. But LSU had crappy teams around him and was coached by Press "Daddy" Maravich. Kinda like the McDermotts at Creighton on steroids.

LSU was reasonably good Maravich's senior season. Saw him play and beat Vanderbilt that year, at Memorial Gym no less. But I would hope we aspire to much, much more than LSU circa 1970!

Pistol was much taller, had a better handle, and was a magical passer. Like Howard, couldn't guard a dead man. Had the floppiest, stinkin' socks around, hey?

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 30, 2019, 02:25:56 PM
Agree with this. I have no problem with his usage being 35-40% when he is in "God Mode". But when "cold Markus" or just "normal Markus" shows up I wish he would take his foot off the accelerator a bit.

I'm seeing cold Marcus this year. But not seeing laying off cold Marcus.

Be in for some very exciting games. As well as games that make you want to drink bleach.

Quote from: #UnleashCain on June 30, 2019, 09:07:46 PM
I'm seeing cold Marcus this year. But not seeing laying off cold Marcus.

Be in for some very exciting games. As well as games that make you want to drink bleach.

Who is Marcus?

Quote from: Newsdreams on July 01, 2019, 07:11:36 AM
Who is Marcus?

My auto correct does not like the term Markus

Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 30, 2019, 09:04:17 PM

Pistol was much taller, had a better handle, and was a magical passer. Like Howard, couldn't guard a dead man. Had the floppiest, stinkin' socks around, hey?

All true...but the difference on defense was that Pete didn't even pretend like he was trying to play defense, and Press didn't care. Markus sure seems to be trying.

Markus was dramatically improved on defense last season. He actually finished with a better defensive rating than Sacar. Not saying Markus is the better defensive player -- but he definitely stepped up.

The myth of Markus being a bad defender was one of the bigger ones told on here. Markus was a good defender when matched up with other PGs and an almost passable defender when matched up with 2Gs. Rowdy, bless his heart, was the Achilles heel to our defense.

On the scoring side of things, Markus has a legit shot to set the all-time Big East conference scoring record -- currently held by Troy Bell of Boston College with 2,632 points.

Only 3 Division I men's basketball players have scored 60+ points in a single game since 2000. That span covers more than 100,000 games. Only one, Eddie House of Arizona State, played for a high-major university. The stars would have to align perfectly for it to happen for Markus.

Quote from: brewcity77 on June 30, 2019, 02:01:33 PM
When Markus scores 36+ points, Marquette is 7-1. The only loss was a 100-90 result at Villanova where he also tallied 4 boards & 8 assists, accounting for more than half the team's points & we might have won if Rowsey was even just below average (2/12 from the field, 6 points).

I get the problem with bad selfish Markus, but when he goes into God Mode, we generally win.

This, NBA Jam mode Markus isn't the problem. The problem is when he thinks he's in NBA Jam mode but isn't.

Hope not. If he does we have bigger issues to address.

Quote from: dgies9156 on June 30, 2019, 08:58:03 PM
Maravich is the guy who I have seen in my life who most reminds me of Markus. At the risk of showing my age, I saw him play a couple of times when I was in junior high school.

Maravich was a great shooter and ball-handler. But LSU had crappy teams around him and was coached by Press "Daddy" Maravich. Kinda like the McDermotts at Creighton on steroids.

LSU was reasonably good Maravich's senior season. Saw him play and beat Vanderbilt that year, at Memorial Gym no less. But I would hope we aspire to much, much more than LSU circa 1970!

Another LSU guy/gunner is a better comparison: Chris Jackson (a.k.a. Mahmoud Abdul Raouf)

It is absolutely unbelievable to me that almost 1/3 of people here think Markus will score 60 points in a game this year.

A high major player has done that exactly 4 times in the last 30 years. All were done by a player on a terrible team.

IF Markus scores 60 points in a game, there is little chance this team will even win 10 games.

Quote from: Jockey on July 02, 2019, 12:48:12 PMIF Markus scores 60 points in a game, there is little chance this team will even win 10 games.

That's a really ridiculous level of pretending correlation is the same thing as causation.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 02, 2019, 05:08:12 PM
That's a really ridiculous level of pretending correlation is the same thing as causation.

Maybe.......

But yet, there is a ton of evidence that my statement is valid.

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on July 02, 2019, 11:53:49 AM
Another LSU guy/gunner is a better comparison: Chris Jackson (a.k.a. Mahmoud Abdul Raouf)

Agreed. Chris Jackson has been mentioned before here as a comparison to Markus, and it's a pretty darn good one.

Also agree with TAMU and others that Markus isn't a bad defensive player. He's never gonna be Defensive Player of the Year, but he does a pretty good job against most PGs or others his size, will step in to take a charge, etc.

Rowsey was one of the worst defenders I've ever seen. Totally disinterested in playing that side of the ball AND short AND not overly quick. A poor combination. It hurt our defense very much that we pretty much had to play a backcourt that had no chance against a tall, athletic guard.

Quote from: Jockey on July 02, 2019, 06:05:14 PM
Maybe.......

But yet, there is a ton of evidence that my statement is valid.

Not really. Marquette is 4-0 when Markus scores over 40. 60 is over 40, so we won't lose under those circumstances. There's just as much evidence of that as the 4 people that scored 60 in the past 30 years, and it's more recent data.

Quote from: brewcity77 on July 02, 2019, 06:38:32 PM
Not really. Marquette is 4-0 when Markus scores over 40. 60 is over 40, so we won't lose under those circumstances. There's just as much evidence of that as the 4 people that scored 60 in the past 30 years, and it's more recent data.

Big difference between 40 and 60.

Hundreds of players have scored forty. Not many have scored 60. Almost all high major players who scored 60 were either all-time greats - Jabbar, Robertson, Maravich, Baylor, etc. - or played for awful teams. Neither situation covers Markus. He is good enough that he may average 25 again, but scoring 60 is a whole new ballgame.

I understand your argument and have no idea how you voted on whether Markus would score 60, but I would gladly put my money where my mouth is and bet anyone who wants to that he will not score 60 in a game this year.

Quote from: Jockey on July 02, 2019, 07:43:27 PM
Big difference between 40 and 60.

Hundreds of players have scored forty. Not many have scored 60. Almost all high major players who scored 60 were either all-time greats - Jabbar, Robertson, Maravich, Baylor, etc. - or played for awful teams. Neither situation covers Markus. He is good enough that he may average 25 again, but scoring 60 is a whole new ballgame.

I understand your argument and have no idea how you voted on whether Markus would score 60, but I would gladly put my money where my mouth is and bet anyone who wants to that he will not score 60 in a game this year.

True that Markus isn't an all time great player, but he is an elite scorer. And with the addition of the "3" a player with Markus's skills can hit 10 of them and turn an old 50 into today's 60.Plus, he draws fouls and almost never misses free throws. It's still not likely and I don't think it would be good for the team but IMO it's possible and wouldn't spell disaster.

I am coaching at the Charlotte Hornets youth camp this week, and at lunch today I asked a few of my fellow coaches: "Do any of you know who Markus Howard is?"

One guy said, "Yeah, he's that great shooter at Marquette, right? He's amazing."

Another guy, who didn't immediately recognize the name, said: "Oh yeah, he had 50-something in a game this year, right? I saw it on SportsCenter."

A couple others thought the name was familiar but didn't remember who he was. And when the first guy said the thing about Marquette, they still couldn't remember if they ever saw him play.

These were all 20-somethings, FWIW.

Not really trying to prove any point. Just thought some of y'all might find it interesting.

Quote from: Jockey on July 02, 2019, 07:43:27 PMBig difference between 40 and 60.

That's not the point, though. Not of your contention that the team will be terrible if, on one single night, Howard scores 60.

If he does, there's a decent chance we win the game. And whether he does it not, that result won't impact the results of the rest of the season. That assertion is just trying to say anecdotal evidence is a hard and fast rule when none of those anecdotes are relevant.