Wow I am watching this Coach Wojo press conference here and I am really enjoying it and like what I hear. https://youtu.be/v3JzSG49040 (https://youtu.be/v3JzSG49040)
First off I back Coach Wojo and his staff which began and continues to be one of the best in College Basketball.
It started with a collection of who's who guards in Chris Carrawell, Dawkins, Gainey, and others.
Former players I respected and watched play and from their games you could see they would make fine coaches.
And now a solid staff still remains in Coach Johnson Coach Nelson Coach Killings etc. Solid staff.
But I am 3:50 seconds into this and you can sense Coach's excitement and eagerness to get started and begin working and building and advancing on with his team.
I really liked the part about 'Expectations' and would recommend that many in here listen to that part. He really nailed on that very well when making a differentiation between exceptions and just . . . 'noise.'
He also said how he embraces expectations and said that his program has met them since he has been here [which is true imo.] Perhaps not quite to the liking of some... after last years swoon. But oh well.
Look at it:
Awesome, another thread on expectations...
Quote from: PointWarrior on May 10, 2019, 01:29:53 AM
Awesome, another thread on expectations...
Every team has them....except Virginia like he said...watch the part of the video where he addressed that.
There is not a program in the country that does not have expectations. Some of them vary. And nothing has changed on that front at all he says.
Coming from where he has come from and remembering him as a player on great college teams and then a coach on that same team I know that to be the case.
MU has improved each and every year. I am glad they are keeping him and his staff and that they can continue to to build a contender here like the Bucks have done with keeping continuity. We'll see...
Quote from: PointWarrior on May 10, 2019, 01:29:53 AM
Awesome, another thread on expectations...
He embarced the expectations. And coming from Duke [which is the prime example and analogy I wish he would have used, but did not] where they had great expectations each year of winning the National Title each and every year, no one is as in tune with that them him.
Some of his players just needed to also stay on board with that and not have agenda's. But that is not the case. . . down the stretch was it?
Ahem. . . no names mentioned.
And now they all seem to do so even after or with some 'changes' and positive additions.
Yes another thread on expectations...
Every thread in here is about expectations and speculations and estimations and summations of the season, of players and where we think or hope and feel they should be....
Work with me here, work with me...https://youtu.be/v3JzSG49040 (https://youtu.be/v3JzSG49040)
I don't want to spend a lot of time quoting Coach, but I started really tuning in when the 6:00 mark of the video began when he spoke of maturity and such as what one needs to be able to separate true or realistic expectation from 'noise.'
And how some players or young men are treated like Pro's already and have a lot of outside influences in their ears.
"You should drown out the noise. . . "
"The noise comes from a small minority."
"And...and...that minority might not have your best interests at heart." *
"Expectations, GREAT . . . BRING THEM ON. I think we have done a hell of a job."
"I am proud of what our program has done, I am proud of my staff, I love my kids, . . . and you know what, do we want to do better? ABSOLUTELY."
"We want expectations, that is one of the reasons I came to Marquette. There are high expectations, and to me that's awesome."
"Every team in the country has expectations, except maybe 1 Virginia [The National Champion each year]
Maybe many of you the 'expectations' you had were not met...but I do not think it was due to a lack of effort or desire but I think it came from the 'noise' or advice or dissatisfaction from outside on behalf of a few that crept in from the outside that had worked to break up what was a winning situation...
<These are mic drop's for me here. He could have ended the conference here and I am satisfied, so . . . Um, ..yeah. > lol
And that is just 6:55 into the conference...let me watch the rest of it and we will see...
As I continue to watch:
At the 12:00 Wojo goes in on the Markus Howard question.
[I did not hear the question of the reporter asking it which really ticks me off and I wish they would give them a mic so we can hear]
Coach speaks on how it was incredible for him to choose to come back and not even test the waters. . of the NBA.
Then he speaks on how unfair some have been concerning Markus.
He says he is not sure if you are going to find a finer representative of MU than Markus and "goodness gracious" this time last year he was building courts for kids in Costa Rica.
...in his "free time he decides to start the fellowship of Christian athletes."
{I was not aware of this...wow. I am impressed. lol. Good stuff.} he spoke to a national audience about his struggles with mental health...
People only want to talk about peoeple who left or things that did not go well....nice.
Man, its reely wonderful ta have da innocence of youth, aina?
Doc,
Was just thinking the same thing. Wow, big Wojo backer and a lot of energy.
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on May 10, 2019, 01:59:40 AM
I don't want to spend a lot of time quoting Coach, but I started really tuning in when the 6:00 mark of the video began when he spoke of maturity and such as what one needs to be able to separate true or realistic expectation from 'noise.'
And how some players or young men are treated like Pro's already and have a lot of outside influences in their ears.
"You should drown out the noise. . . "
"The noise comes from a small minority."
"And...and...that minority might not have your best interests at heart." *
"Expectations, GREAT . . . BRING THEM ON. I think we have done a hell of a job."
"I am proud of what our program has done, I am proud of my staff, I love my kids, . . . and you know what, do we want to do better? ABSOLUTELY."
"We want expectations, that is one of the reasons I came to Marquette. There are high expectations, and to me that's awesome."
"Every team in the country has expectations, except maybe 1 Virginia [The National Champion each year]
Maybe many of you the 'expectations' you had were not met...but I do not think it was due to a lack of effort or desire but I think it came from the 'noise' or advice or dissatisfaction from outside on behalf of a few that crept in from the outside that had worked to break up what was a winning situation...
<These are mic drop's for me here. He could have ended the conference here and I am satisfied, so . . . Um, ..yeah. > lol
And that is just 6:55 into the conference...let me watch the rest of it and we will see...
Slurp on with the kool aid. Expectations can be very elusive especially with the state of this program.
Quote from: willie warrior on May 10, 2019, 05:08:14 AM
Slurp on with the kool aid. Expectations can be very elusive especially with the state of this program.
A couple recalcitrant players didn't trust the process and, with likely goading from helicopter parents, quit on the program. I see a fire in the eyes of coaches and players I didn't see all last year. The state of the program has never been better.
Quote from: NorthernDancerColt on May 10, 2019, 06:05:34 AM
A couple recalcitrant players didn't trust the process and, with likely goading from helicopter parents, quit on the program. I see a fire in the eyes of coaches and players I didn't see all last year. The state of the program has never been better.
It's ok Mrs. Wojo, you got an extension.
Quote from: NorthernDancerColt on May 10, 2019, 06:05:34 AM
A couple recalcitrant players didn't trust the process and, with likely goading from helicopter parents, quit on the program. I see a fire in the eyes of coaches and players I didn't see all last year. The state of the program has never been better.
Never been better? We haven't won a tournament game since 2013.
I saw a coach who got heated for no reason at a press conference on May 9th that was supposed to be celebrating his extension.
His answer on the Hausers was a total chicken sh!t answer. You're surprised? Really? You're the head coach, how are you surprised. Control your locker room. And the whole 800 kids a year transfer is total BS. Yeah those numbers are true but it's probably 90% of kids transferring down a level cuz they can't hang, kids transferring up because they need better competition, or kids transferring closer to home. Teams don't lose 2 of their top 3 players.
Also, Markus is extremely celebrated and appreciated. For him to think otherwise is another area where I guess he just doesn't know what the hell is going on.
Having said all that, I do think we're going to be pretty good next year and I hope that the product on the court makes us forget about this offseason
Also, the whole transfers haven't really happened at Marquette is untrue too. The guy is straight up lying. Does he think this fan base is stupid? There's been at least one almost every year. Granted none of them have been very good players and we haven't really missed them but to say they haven't happened that much at MU is a lie.
Gabe Levine (yeah I know, he was scarred of Henry)
Denote
Sandy
Haniif
Traci
Sam & Joey
Duane* (grad transfer, I know. But could have been big for that team. Wouldn't of had to play Rowsey and Markus at the same time so much)
Quote from: swoopem on May 10, 2019, 06:20:05 AM
Never been better? We haven't won a tournament game since 2013.
I saw a coach who got heated for no reason at a press conference on May 9th that was supposed to be celebrating his extension.
His answer on the Hausers was a total chicken sh!t answer. You're surprised? Really? You're the head coach, how are you surprised. Control your locker room. And the whole 800 kids a year transfer is total BS. Yeah those numbers are true but it's probably 90% of kids transferring down a level cuz they can't hang, kids transferring up because they need better competition, or kids transferring closer to home. Teams don't lose 2 of their top 3 players.
Also, Markus is extremely celebrated and appreciated. For him to think otherwise is another area where I guess he just doesn't know what the hell is going on.
Having said all that, I do think we're going to be pretty good next year and I hope that the product on the court makes us forget about this offseason
Got heated? Lol. I guess people can find something if they're really looking hard enough. I'd address the rest of the rant but it's hard to take it seriously when you're claiming Wojo "got heated."
He even acknowledged it. "Don't let my intensity stop you from asking questions"
It's a press conference in May. To take a page out of your book Wades R-E-L-A—X
Quote from: swoopem on May 10, 2019, 06:20:05 AM
His answer on the Hausers was a total chicken sh!t answer. You're surprised? Really? You're the head coach, how are you surprised. Control your locker room. And the whole 800 kids a year transfer is total BS. Yeah those numbers are true but it's probably 90% of kids transferring down a level cuz they can't hang, kids transferring up because they need better competition, or kids transferring closer to home. Teams don't lose 2 of their top 3 players.
Also, Markus is extremely celebrated and appreciated. For him to think otherwise is another area where I guess he just doesn't know what the hell is going on
1. Umm u are completely wrong on your transfer thought
2. During the last month, How many threads on here have had to do with how great of a season marcus had last year
U dont appear to know what the hell is going on.
Quote from: NorthernDancerColt on May 10, 2019, 06:05:34 AM
A couple recalcitrant players didn't trust the process and, with likely goading from helicopter parents, quit on the program. I see a fire in the eyes of coaches and players I didn't see all last year. The state of the program has never been better.
I feel like the program was in a better state in 77, 03, and 11. But that's just me.
Quote from: connie on May 10, 2019, 06:18:41 AM
It's ok Mrs. Wojo, you got an extension.
This is pretty good. ;D
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on May 10, 2019, 06:55:14 AM
1. Umm u are completely wrong on your transfer thought
2. During the last month, How many threads on here have had to do with how great of a season marcus had last year
U dont appear to know what the hell is going on.
My bad, I forgot about coaches leaving which is a huge transfer reason.
Marcus? Couldn't tell you. But Markus had a hell of a season and if threads on scoop need to quantify that then wow
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on May 10, 2019, 01:30:52 AM
Every team has them....except Virginia like he said...watch the part of the video where he addressed that.
There is not a program in the country that does not have expectations. Some of them vary. And nothing has changed on that front at all he says.
Coming from where he has come from and remembering him as a player on great college teams and then a coach on that same team I know that to be the case.
MU has improved each and every year. I am glad they are keeping him and his staff and that they can continue to to build a contender here like the Bucks have done with keeping continuity. We'll see...
Is there a contingent of fans of who don't believe Wojo expects to succeed here? Or that he doesn't work hard? Or doesn't put in the effort? That his expectations are out of whack?
The issues with Wojo are results based. In the expectations thread I saw a lot of agreement about expecting to be Top 25. Well, Wojo has done that once in his tenure, this past season (And for a while there, it was a lot of fun!). But it ended with blowing a shot at a Big East championship, getting pantsed in the NCAA tournament by a double digit seed, and then losing two starters (most likely to our in-state rival). And that was, without a doubt, his best season. So while I'm not gonna defend any extreme vitriol from the segment of the fanbase that he complained about, it's not surprising in the slightest that there are unhappy fans out there. Hopefully we have a great season and Wojo can tell everyone to shove it.
And going from the NCAA to the NIT is not "improving each and every year"
Quote from: swoopem on May 10, 2019, 06:35:14 AM
Also, the whole transfers haven't really happened at Marquette is untrue too. The guy is straight up lying. Does he think this fan base is stupid? There's been at least one almost every year. Granted none of them have been very good players and we haven't really missed them but to say they haven't happened that much at MU is a lie.
Gabe Levine (yeah I know, he was scarred of Henry)
Denote
Sandy
Haniif
Traci
Sam & Joey
Duane* (grad transfer, I know. But could have been big for that team. Wouldn't of had to play Rowsey and Markus at the same time so much)
The quote was "it doesn't happen here as much as it happens other places." Which is a correct statement. During the Wojo era, the average number of transfers per team per year has been around 2.4. At Marquette, we have averaged 2 a year (you missed Steve Taylor).
Quote from: swoopem on May 10, 2019, 07:15:49 AM
Marcus? Couldn't tell you. But Markus had a hell of a season and if threads on scoop need to quantify that then wow
If you are going to correct other's spelling, I would make sure yours is solid ;D
Quote from: swoopem on May 10, 2019, 06:35:14 AM
Gabe Levine (yeah I know, he was scarred of Henry)
Denote
Sandy
Haniif
Traci
Sam & Joey
Duane* (grad transfer, I know. But could have been big for that team. Wouldn't of had to play Rowsey and Markus at the same time so much)
Quote from: swoopem on May 10, 2019, 06:20:05 AM
Never been better? We haven't won a tournament game since 2013.
I saw a coach who got heated for no reason at a press conference on May 9th that was supposed to be celebrating his extension.
His answer on the Hausers was a total chicken sh!t answer. You're surprised? Really? You're the head coach, how are you surprised. Control your locker room. And the whole 800 kids a year transfer is total BS. Yeah those numbers are true but it's probably 90% of kids transferring down a level cuz they can't hang, kids transferring up because they need better competition, or kids transferring closer to home. Teams don't lose 2 of their top 3 players.
Also, Markus is extremely celebrated and appreciated. For him to think otherwise is another area where I guess he just doesn't know what the hell is going on.
Having said all that, I do think we're going to be pretty good next year and I hope that the product on the court makes us forget about this offseason
As to your points...
A. Where we are at going forward...I've never felt better. NCAA may not be a total crapshoot, but it's a 64 team horse race...you thought the Derby with 18-20 runners requires luck and good trips? Things will break well for this team.
B. so you're bewildered Wojo was fired up in May...but....apathy.
IDK, Maybe he wants to win so bad...he is too fired up...to the point it caused a couple key transfers.
So, which is it, complacent apathy or sheer fire? I'll take the latter every day.
C. How can you not get the point? Wojo was completely surprised at the BroHaus' level of dissatisfaction...that it could lead to them walking away given the potential of the team. He managed the situation in the way he felt necessary...it's your prerogative to call it mismanagement. His handling and leadership in the situation was rejected by two of those being managed. In the corporate world, such employees are either terminated or quit. In the military, they would be discharged for insubordination. Coach was shocked they quit. But when taken in the context of what is arguably a transfer epidemic...he understands...maybe the whole concept of team ahead of personal goals is archaic...the grass is always greener...kids are impatient.
D. I concede you your point. Markus is indeed greatly celebrated and appreciated. I think Wojo was referring to those who want to blame him for the transfers, and then conveniently gloss over all he has done, in every capacity, to represent MU so well.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on May 10, 2019, 07:41:33 AM
And going from the NCAA to the NIT is not "improving each and every year"
I don't remember if you were the one I had this argument with already or not, so apologies if you are. But recruiting comes in cycles. When a big class graduates, like what happened in 2017, a down year is expected. The last time Marquette had an expected down year was Wojo's first year where he had a losing record and missed the post season. The next down year, he made the NIT as a high seed. That's improvement. Maybe the team doesn't improve from one season to the next (that doesn't happen every year for any team otherwise we'd have one team winning the national championship every year) but the program may still be improving overall.
Same thing is going to happen in 20-21. With everyone graduating, a down year will be expected. The hope and maybe even expectation is that despite the down year, Marquette will still make the tourney, though possibly by the skin of their teeth.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on May 10, 2019, 08:04:21 AM
I don't remember if you were the one I had this argument with already or not, so apologies if you are. But recruiting comes in cycles. When a big class graduates, like what happened in 2017, a down year is expected. The last time Marquette had an expected down year was Wojo's first year where he had a losing record and missed the post season. The next down year, he made the NIT as a high seed. That's improvement. Maybe the team doesn't improve from one season to the next (that doesn't happen every year for any team otherwise we'd have one team winning the national championship every year) but the program may still be improving overall.
Same thing is going to happen in 20-21. With everyone graduating, a down year will be expected. The hope and maybe even expectation is that despite the down year, Marquette will still make the tourney, though possibly by the skin of their teeth.
We did have that argument. Going from the NCAA to the NIT is not improving no matter how you try to couch it. And it holds even less weight when that big class that graduated was the empty cupboard.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on May 10, 2019, 08:04:21 AM
I don't remember if you were the one I had this argument with already or not, so apologies if you are. But recruiting comes in cycles. When a big class graduates, like what happened in 2017, a down year is expected. The last time Marquette had an expected down year was Wojo's first year where he had a losing record and missed the post season. The next down year, he made the NIT as a high seed. That's improvement. Maybe the team doesn't improve from one season to the next (that doesn't happen every year for any team otherwise we'd have one team winning the national championship every year) but the program may still be improving overall.
Same thing is going to happen in 20-21. With everyone graduating, a down year will be expected. The hope and maybe even expectation is that despite the down year, Marquette will still make the tourney, though possibly by the skin of their teeth.
20-21 we still have Theo Jamal Greg , Brendan,Koby And hopefully Ike . Symir will be on board and Dexter a sophomore . Probably get some transfers and grad transfers .
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on May 10, 2019, 08:12:37 AM
We did have that argument. Going from the NCAA to the NIT is not improving no matter how you try to couch it. And it holds even less weight when that big class that graduated was the empty cupboard.
That's fine, we just see it differently. You're right that the quality of the team didn't improve from 16-17 to 17-18, but I think the quality of the program did.
It was an empty cupboard. Even with a full four years of development and supplemental recruiting, the best the group could manage was a 10 seed in the NCAA. Got them out and the next group has already managed a 5 seed and will hopefully get more next season. The goal is that every recruiting cycle brings better results than the last one.
Quote from: swoopem on May 10, 2019, 06:20:05 AM
Never been better? We haven't won a tournament game since 2013.
I saw a coach who got heated for no reason at a press conference on May 9th that was supposed to be celebrating his extension.
His answer on the Hausers was a total chicken sh!t answer. You're surprised? Really? You're the head coach, how are you surprised. Control your locker room. And the whole 800 kids a year transfer is total BS. Yeah those numbers are true but it's probably 90% of kids transferring down a level cuz they can't hang, kids transferring up because they need better competition, or kids transferring closer to home. Teams don't lose 2 of their top 3 players.
Also, Markus is extremely celebrated and appreciated. For him to think otherwise is another area where I guess he just doesn't know what the hell is going on.
Having said all that, I do think we're going to be pretty good next year and I hope that the product on the court makes us forget about this offseason
A chickenshat answer? Sigh
Quote from: Herman Cain on May 10, 2019, 08:17:36 AM
20-21 we still have Theo Jamal Greg , Koby And hopefully Ike . Symir will be on board and Dexter a sophomore . Probably get some transfers and grad transfers .
I'm well aware of what we will have. If Wojo somehow turns in a better season after graduating an All American, Ed, Jayce, and Sacar...then he might be a better coach then anyone ever expected.
Quote from: swoopem on May 10, 2019, 06:48:48 AM
He even acknowledged it. "Don't let my intensity stop you from asking questions"
It's a press conference in May. To take a page out of your book Wades R-E-L-A—X
Intensity and passion equals heated? Nope
Quote from: #UnleashCain on May 10, 2019, 06:59:32 AM
I feel like the program was in a better state in 77, 03, and 11. But that's just me.
Program in 77 was actually a mess .... last team into the tournament, lost last three home games, fight in the locker room...Scoop would have been insane. Then we went on a run. '03, don't you remember the gnashing of teeth on Previous board when we were blown out in CUSA tournament with like 30 turnovers? In '11, if I recall, we were 18-13 going into the Big East tournament with bracketologists wondering if we would even get in. Lost our last Big East tourney game by almost 30. We went on a run in the NCAAs.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on May 10, 2019, 08:18:44 AM
That's fine, we just see it differently. You're right that the quality of the team didn't improve from 16-17 to 17-18, but I think the quality of the program did.
It was an empty cupboard. Even with a full four years of development and supplemental recruiting, the best the group could manage was a 10 seed in the NCAA. Got them out and the next group has already managed a 5 seed and will hopefully get more next season. The goal is that every recruiting cycle brings better results than the last one.
A lot of people go after guru and willie for bending over backwards to find the negative. "We've improved every year" is the other side of that coin.
Everyone wants to talk about how bad those players were until they left, then it was "well what do you expect? The bad players left!"
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on May 10, 2019, 08:31:23 AM
A lot of people go after guru and willie for bending over backwards to find the negative. "We've improved every year" is the other side of that coin.
Everyone wants to talk about how bad those players were until they left, then it was "well what do you expect? The bad players left!"
Hypothetical for you.
Year one you go 22-10 make NCAA with rating of 39
Year two you go 23-9 make NIT with rating of 36
Year two better record, higher rating, but selection crew said no.....therefore didn' improve....is that correct? Purely hypothetical question.
Quote from: Cheeks on May 10, 2019, 08:21:52 AM
Intensity and passion equals heated? Nope
https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/heated
They're both right there, my dude.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on May 10, 2019, 08:37:06 AM
https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/heated
They're both right there, my dude.
Also right there... excited, impassioned. Just another example of people seeing what they want to see. I didn't see any anger as is implied, but whatever
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on May 10, 2019, 08:31:23 AM
A lot of people go after guru and willie for bending over backwards to find the negative. "We've improved every year" is the other side of that coin.
That's fine if you see it that way. I just hope you recognize that if you look at that way then no one improves every year and roughly half of everyone does worse than they did the year before, so Wojo not improving between seasons once in 5 years is ahead of the curve.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on May 10, 2019, 08:31:23 AM
Everyone wants to talk about how bad those players were until they left, then it was "well what do you expect? The bad players left!"
They weren't bad players, they weren't great players. Their peak was to be complimentary starters on a team that barely made the NCAA. But you still need players like that (or better) to fill out a roster. We lost a lot after year three, but we only dropped about 4 seed lines. The year after that, we got our 4th best NCAA seed in 40 years. Goal is to have each recruiting cycle be better than the last one.
Quote from: Cheeks on May 10, 2019, 08:27:30 AM
Program in 77 was actually a mess .... last team into the tournament, lost last three home games, fight in the locker room...Scoop would have been insane. Then we went on a run.
Umm, that was back in the days when the expectation was a Top 5 ranking, deep run into the NCAA and a consensus All-American.
We were insane even without Scoop. We just talked out our thoughts rather than publishing them. Could not figure out what the heck was going on.. and why?
And then....!
Do any of you on this Board think we're poised for an "and then" moment?"
Quote from: Cheeks on May 10, 2019, 08:35:50 AM
Hypothetical for you.
Year one you go 22-10 make NCAA with rating of 39
Year two you go 23-9 make NIT with rating of 36
Year two better record, higher rating, but selection crew said no.....therefore didn' improve....is that correct? Purely hypothetical question.
For me, there is no greater divide than the NCAA/NIT. So while I'm sure there are stats and measurements that one could point to and call improvement, big picture it's about making the tourney. If people want to say "We've improved every year according to *insert stat*", that's fine, but they should probably clarify that. According to the tournament hierarchy we inarguably took a step back.
Quote from: dgies9156 on May 10, 2019, 08:56:01 AM
Umm, that was back in the days when the expectation was a Top 5 ranking, deep run into the NCAA and a consensus All-American.
We were insane even without Scoop. We just talked out our thoughts rather than publishing them. Could not figure out what the heck was going on.. and why?
And then....!
Do any of you on this Board think we're poised for an "and then" moment?"
Understood, but doesn't change what I said. The three examples given had one thing in common, good success in the ncaa tournament. They also had some other things in common....narrow wins in the tournament that one possession different could have ended abruptly, regular season for two of them that was erratic in nature, blow out losses in the conference tournament (obviously we didn't play in one in '77), etc.
The and then is a crapshoot. Did Loyola Chicago think and then....but their bracket cleared out and they were fortunate to win games. And then is about many things, including luck which Mr. Izzo and Mr. Roy Williams stated along with so many other high level coaches.
And then....luck, skill, etc happened. We will have our moments again.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on May 10, 2019, 08:56:54 AM
For me, there is no greater divide than the NCAA/NIT. So while I'm sure there are stats and measurements that one could point to and call improvement, big picture it's about making the tourney. If people want to say "We've improved every year according to *insert stat*", that's fine, but they should probably clarify that. According to the tournament hierarchy we inarguably took a step back.
But you do recognize each year there isn't a magical guarantee unless you win your conf tournament you ultimately have to be put in by a committee. My point being you can be better from year to the next and not go one year, or not go as far, etc. Our '76 team was better than our '77 team, but '77 won it all despite damn near not making the dance at all.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on May 10, 2019, 08:21:24 AM
I'm well aware of what we will have. If Wojo somehow turns in a better season after graduating an All American, Ed, Jayce, and Sacar...then he might be a better coach then anyone ever expected.
Amended that to add Brendan. So we will have 5 very experienced Big East Level players . No reason that team won't be very competitive .
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on May 10, 2019, 01:59:40 AM
I don't want to spend a lot of time quoting Coach, but I started really tuning in when the 6:00 mark of the video began when he spoke of maturity and such as what one needs to be able to separate true or realistic expectation from 'noise.'
And how some players or young men are treated like Pro's already and have a lot of outside influences in their ears.
"You should drown out the noise. . . "
"The noise comes from a small minority."
"And...and...that minority might not have your best interests at heart." *
"Expectations, GREAT . . . BRING THEM ON. I think we have done a hell of a job."
"I am proud of what our program has done, I am proud of my staff, I love my kids, . . . and you know what, do we want to do better? ABSOLUTELY."
"We want expectations, that is one of the reasons I came to Marquette. There are high expectations, and to me that's awesome."
"Every team in the country has expectations, except maybe 1 Virginia [The National Champion each year]
Maybe many of you the 'expectations' you had were not met...but I do not think it was due to a lack of effort or desire but I think it came from the 'noise' or advice or dissatisfaction from outside on behalf of a few that crept in from the outside that had worked to break up what was a winning situation...
<These are mic drop's for me here. He could have ended the conference here and I am satisfied, so . . . Um, ..yeah. > lol
And that is just 6:55 into the conference...let me watch the rest of it and we will see...
Enjoy prom this weekend.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on May 10, 2019, 08:44:07 AM
That's fine if you see it that way. I just hope you recognize that if you look at that way then no one improves every year and roughly half of everyone does worse than they did the year before, so Wojo not improving between seasons once in 5 years is ahead of the curve.
They weren't bad players, they weren't great players. Their peak was to be complimentary starters on a team that barely made the NCAA. But you still need players like that (or better) to fill out a roster. We lost a lot after year three, but we only dropped about 4 seed lines. The year after that, we got our 4th best NCAA seed in 40 years. Goal is to have each recruiting cycle be better than the last one.
I absolutely recognize that. This conversation started, just like it did last time, because someone claimed we improved every year. I'm happy to put it to bed so long as people stop saying it.
Regarding what we lost after Year 3, had we gotten more out of Wojo's first big recruiting class, maybe we're not having this convo.
Quote from: Herman Cain on May 10, 2019, 09:09:44 AM
Amended that to add Brendan. So we will have 5 very experienced Big East Level players . No reason that team won't be very competitive .
I didn't say we wouldn't be very competitive. I said we will be worse than we were the year before.
Quote from: Cheeks on May 10, 2019, 09:04:59 AM
But you do recognize each year there isn't a magical guarantee unless you win your conf tournament you ultimately have to be put in by a committee. My point being you can be better from year to the next and not go one year, or not go as far, etc. Our '76 team was better than our '77 team, but '77 won it all despite damn near not making the dance at all.
I think there are extenuating circumstances, sure. I do not think they apply to the team we are discussing.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on May 10, 2019, 07:41:33 AM
Is there a contingent of fans of who don't believe Wojo expects to succeed here? Or that he doesn't work hard? Or doesn't put in the effort? That his expectations are out of whack?
The issues with Wojo are results based. In the expectations thread I saw a lot of agreement about expecting to be Top 25. Well, Wojo has done that once in his tenure, this past season (And for a while there, it was a lot of fun!). But it ended with blowing a shot at a Big East championship, getting pantsed in the NCAA tournament by a double digit seed, and then losing two starters (most likely to our in-state rival). And that was, without a doubt, his best season. So while I'm not gonna defend any extreme vitriol from the segment of the fanbase that he complained about, it's not surprising in the slightest that there are unhappy fans out there. Hopefully we have a great season and Wojo can tell everyone to shove it.
And going from the NCAA to the NIT is not "improving each and every year"
Yes
Quote from: NorthernDancerColt on May 10, 2019, 06:05:34 AM
A couple recalcitrant players didn't trust the process and, with likely goading from helicopter parents, quit on the program. I see a fire in the eyes of coaches and players I didn't see all last year. The state of the program has never been better.
Why do you feel it necessary to libel Dave & Steph Hauser? Why do you feel it necessary to constantly go after the boys as well? They're gone, just let it play out. I feel like all this site is right now is people blasting back and forth about this, we have no control, just let it play out. Sometimes people do things for reasons they perceive are in their best interest. If it has nothing to do with you, which in this case it certainly doesn't, why keep bad-mouthing them for making that decision?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on May 10, 2019, 08:04:21 AM
I don't remember if you were the one I had this argument with already or not, so apologies if you are. But recruiting comes in cycles. When a big class graduates, like what happened in 2017, a down year is expected. The last time Marquette had an expected down year was Wojo's first year where he had a losing record and missed the post season. The next down year, he made the NIT as a high seed. That's improvement. Maybe the team doesn't improve from one season to the next (that doesn't happen every year for any team otherwise we'd have one team winning the national championship every year) but the program may still be improving overall.
Same thing is going to happen in 20-21. With everyone graduating, a down year will be expected. The hope and maybe even expectation is that despite the down year, Marquette will still make the tourney, though possibly by the skin of their teeth.
This is what I don't get..why should it be, and why does it have to be expected?? Bottom line, it doesn't need to be. No reason a program like MU can't at minimum maintain their success from the previous year when a class graduates. Why should they make it by the skin of their teeth?? My expectations from year to year is that they make the tournament comfortably(everyone's definition of that is different). People talk like this program is Old Dominion or Dayton or something. I get tired of that.
Wojo can talk the talk, I'm just waiting for him to walk the walk. Reminds me of his press conference at the end of the 17-18 season when he was saying "We are going to be a program that wins a lot of games in March.."
They went 1-5 this past March including a tournament beat down by a 12 seed.
Quote from: muguru on May 10, 2019, 11:46:26 AM
This is what I don't get..why should it be, and why does it have to be expected?? Bottom line, it doesn't need to be. No reason a program like MU can't at minimum maintain their success from the previous year when a class graduates. Why should they make it by the skin of their teeth?? My expectations from year to year is that they make the tournament comfortably(everyone's definition of that is different). People talk like this program is Old Dominion or Dayton or something. I get tired of that.
Why did an actual elite program like UNC miss the tournament? Or Syracuse? Or any number of schools? Why don't they just make
It Every single year.....reminder, there are what, 6 or 7 schools that currently have made it more 6 straight years. That's it.
I remember when press conferences used to inspire confidence in me. Ahh the days of youth
I think we should change the name of this site from MUScoop to MUnoise.
Quote from: NickelDimer on May 10, 2019, 11:59:14 AM
I remember when press conferences used to inspire confidence in me. Ahh the days of youth
I remember you saying luck had nothing to do with NCAA tournament success.....a couple of national champion coaches beg to differ.
Quote from: muguru on May 10, 2019, 11:46:26 AM
This is what I don't get..why should it be, and why does it have to be expected?? Bottom line, it doesn't need to be. No reason a program like MU can't at minimum maintain their success from the previous year when a class graduates. Why should they make it by the skin of their teeth?? My expectations from year to year is that they make the tournament comfortably(everyone's definition of that is different). People talk like this program is Old Dominion or Dayton or something. I get tired of that.
Because every program has down years. Even the blue bloods. Their down years are less down then ours. And our down years are less down then the Daytons and Old Dominions of the world. This is a fact. If programs didn't have down years, then eventually there would be one team that wins the national championship every year by an increasing margin because that is the only way that they could improve.
Part of becoming elite again is making sure those down years aren't so down. First down year under Wojo was a losing record. Second down year under Wojo was an NIT berth. My hope for the next down year after that is an NCAA bubble team. My hope for the next down year after that is in the 6-10 seed range. My hope for the next down year after that is in in the 3-5 seed range....and on and on and on. Likely there will some cycles in there where we plateau for a bit. And that's fine, it happens to all programs. As long as the cycles don't start to trend downwards.
Quote from: Cheeks on May 10, 2019, 12:06:19 PM
I remember you saying luck had nothing to do with NCAA tournament success.....a couple of national champion coaches beg to differ.
I love how you are continuously pushing the "crapshoot" narrative...yet you take me to town for pushing my "mediocre" narrative. If you're correct that the tournament is a crapshoot, then I am also correct that Wojo's tenure has been mediocre.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on May 10, 2019, 10:40:08 AM
I didn't say we wouldn't be very competitive. I said we will be worse than we were the year before.
I would wait to see how recruiting goes before making that declaration .There are also still potentially solid transfers available and we won't know how that plays out for a few months. Big East is an attractive landing spots for transfers.
Quote from: Herman Cain on May 10, 2019, 12:13:45 PM
I would wait to see how recruiting goes before making that declaration .There are also still potentially solid transfers available and we won't know how that plays out for a few months. Big East is an attractive landing spots for transfers.
I don't like to toot my own horn, but I think I'm pretty connected to what's available in the transfer market.
As I said before, we could end up not having a down year after graduating an All American, a for sure starter, and two potential starters. If Wojo and co can replace all that in a single offseason, that will be a huge feather in their cap.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 10, 2019, 11:19:06 AM
Why do you feel it necessary to libel Dave & Steph Hauser? Why do you feel it necessary to constantly go after the boys as well? They're gone, just let it play out. I feel like all this site is right now is people blasting back and forth about this, we have no control, just let it play out. Sometimes people do things for reasons they perceive are in their best interest. If it has nothing to do with you, which in this case it certainly doesn't, why keep bad-mouthing them for making that decision?
You dont think they had anything to do with it??!!! I guarantee those helicopter parents were central in it. Jealous of Markus and the first to blame the swoon not on their precious babies and their collapse but on the fact that Markus wasnt playing very well either. Recall daddy Hauser running down from the stands when Sam got hurt against DePaul, if he is an emergency room physician then i take that one back. Bi+ch ass kids typucally are the products of bi+ch ass parents.
Quote from: swoopem on May 10, 2019, 06:20:05 AM
Never been better? We haven't won a tournament game since 2013.
I saw a coach who got heated for no reason at a press conference on May 9th that was supposed to be celebrating his extension.
His answer on the Hausers was a total chicken sh!t answer. You're surprised? Really? You're the head coach, how are you surprised. Control your locker room. And the whole 800 kids a year transfer is total BS. Yeah those numbers are true but it's probably 90% of kids transferring down a level cuz they can't hang, kids transferring up because they need better competition, or kids transferring closer to home. Teams don't lose 2 of their top 3 players.
Also, Markus is extremely celebrated and appreciated. For him to think otherwise is another area where I guess he just doesn't know what the hell is going on.
Having said all that, I do think we're going to be pretty good next year and I hope that the product on the court makes us forget about this offseason
Did Theo or Sacar transfer too? Because if you are saying Joey was top 3 last year...well, we didn't watch the same games, apparently. Unless you're referencing them in regards to PPG, which ignores quite a bit of Joey's deficiencies.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on May 10, 2019, 10:40:08 AM
I didn't say we wouldn't be very competitive. I said we will be worse than we were the year before.
I belive u to be wrong
I like WOJO. Glad he is staying and believe he will find a way to move us forward.
I support this guy 100% at this point!
Quote from: GrimmReaper33 on May 10, 2019, 11:52:34 AM
Wojo can talk the talk, I'm just waiting for him to walk the walk. Reminds me of his press conference at the end of the 17-18 season when he was saying "We are going to be a program that wins a lot of games in March.."
They went 1-5 this past March including a tournament beat down by a 12 seed.
So you're giving him a 1 year sample size to follow through on that word?
Reasonable.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on May 10, 2019, 12:37:29 PM
You dont think they had anything to do with it??!!! I guarantee those helicopter parents were central in it. Jealous of Markus and the first to blame the swoon not on their precious babies and their collapse but on the fact that Markus wasnt playing very well either. Recall daddy Hauser running down from the stands when Sam got hurt against DePaul, if he is an emergency room physician then i take that one back. Bi+ch ass kids typucally are the products of bi+ch ass parents.
From everything I have heard, if they were running things MU fans would be much more content. I'm not saying they were 100% happy, but I don't believe they made the final decision to leave.
Quote from: Cheeks on May 10, 2019, 12:06:19 PM
I remember you saying luck had nothing to do with NCAA tournament success.....a couple of national champion coaches beg to differ.
I rarely remember anything you say because it's rarely worth remembering. I do remember you saying tournament winners have the luck of a crapshoot to thank though. Can't make that stuff up. Stay gold (if not confused) cheeks.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on May 10, 2019, 12:39:24 PM
I belive u to be wrong
Are you talking about next season? Or are you talking about 20-21 after we graduate Markus, Sacar, Jayce, and Ed? Because I'm talking about the second one.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 10, 2019, 12:57:36 PM
So you're giving him a 1 year sample size to follow through on that word?
Reasonable.
He's been the coach for 5 years. He talks big but hasn't backed it up. I guess we'll see. He flat out said, "we're going to be really good" this next season so let's see if he can follow through.
Quote from: GrimmReaper33 on May 10, 2019, 02:27:33 PM
He's been the coach for 5 years. He talks big but hasn't backed it up. I guess we'll see. He flat out said, "we're going to be really good" this next season so let's see if he can follow through.
You claimed Wojo can only talk the talk but does not walk the walk and provided a quote from after the 2017-2018 season saying we would be a program that won a lot in March. We just played the 2018-2019 season.
Quote from: GrimmReaper33 on May 10, 2019, 02:27:33 PM
He's been the coach for 5 years. He talks big but hasn't backed it up. I guess we'll see. He flat out said, "we're going to be really good" this next season so let's see if he can follow through.
This post is spot on! I guarantee you his definition of "really" good and my/others definition of "really" good, is quite different. He also says...bring on the expectations...well...they have been brought on, when do you intend to deliver on them Wojo?? Don't write checks you can't cash.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 10, 2019, 02:29:30 PM
You claimed Wojo can only talk the talk but does not walk the walk and provided a quote from after the 2017-2018 season saying we would be a program that won a lot in March. We just played the 2018-2019 season.
If you want to say it's too early to fully judge the results based on a comment he made before last season, fine. But the early results of that statement are pathetic. And I doubt when he made that statement he wasn't referring in part to last season.
Quote from: GrimmReaper33 on May 10, 2019, 02:27:33 PM
He's been the coach for 5 years. He talks big but hasn't backed it up. I guess we'll see. He flat out said, "we're going to be really good" this next season so let's see if he can follow through.
Wojo, referring to 2019-20, said "we're going to be really good." Scholl reinforced that, and indicated fan expectations should include Final Fours and National Championships. Both were clearly talking about next year when they said "really good."
They are reinforcing the same high expectations the social media team pushed when they retweeted all the top-10 predictions in early April. As far as I'm concerned, after that presser my expectations for next year are a top-15 team that is a Final Four contender.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 10, 2019, 03:06:39 PM
Wojo, referring to 2019-20, said "we're going to be really good." Scholl reinforced that, and indicated fan expectations should include Final Fours and National Championships. Both were clearly talking about next year when they said "really good."
They are reinforcing the same high expectations the social media team pushed when they retweeted all the top-10 predictions in early April. As far as I'm concerned, after that presser my expectations for next year are a top-15 team that is a Final Four contender.
Well, Top 25 contenders in any event at this point. This is really a totally different team that needs to earn its spurs. Should be fun to watch.
Animated is the word that comes to
mind. This year is an important year for those of us that are wobbly with him.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 10, 2019, 02:29:30 PM
You claimed Wojo can only talk the talk but does not walk the walk and provided a quote from after the 2017-2018 season saying we would be a program that won a lot in March. We just played the 2018-2019 season.
... And we didn't win big in March. Quite the opposite, actually. When is he going to back up his bold statements? 5 full seasons not enough? How long do we need to wait for him to follow through?
My whole point is he's making himself look pretty foolish with this big talk considering he hasn't accomplished all that much. He said they're going to be really good this year. What does that mean? To me that's at least top 25 all year and sweet 16. I'm not all that confident it's going to happen, and he'll look stupid again.
Quote from: GrimmReaper33 on May 10, 2019, 04:00:45 PM
... And we didn't win big in March. Quite the opposite, actually. When is he going to back up his bold statements? 5 full seasons not enough? How long do we need to wait for him to follow through?
My whole point is he's making himself look pretty foolish with this big talk considering he hasn't accomplished all that much. He said they're going to be really good this year. What does that mean? To me that's at least top 25 all year and sweet 16. I'm not all that confident it's going to happen, and he'll look stupid again.
...5 full seasons after the quote you supplied would be following the 2022-2023 season. That's my point. You say he talks a big game based on his quote following the 2017-2018 season and then complain he didn't back up his claim because they bowed out early in March the very first season.
Wojo in May of 2018: "We're going to be a program that wins big in March."
You in May of 2019: "He looks like an idiot! He isn't backing up his word!"
You're right, he didn't back up his word. But it hasn't been 5 years since his word. It's been 1.
What should Wojo say to satisfy you? "We aren't going to be very good next season. But it's okay because we don't have any expectations here, other than getting good quality kids who stay out of trouble. If we win big that's great. If not meh, I'll still make my millions!"
Quote from: wadesworld on May 10, 2019, 04:12:14 PM
...5 full seasons after the quote you supplied would be following the 2022-2023 season. That's my point. You say he talks a big game based on his quote following the 2017-2018 season and then complain he didn't back up his claim because they bowed out early in March the very first season.
Wojo in May of 2018: "We're going to be a program that wins big in March."
You in May of 2019: "He looks like an idiot! He isn't backing up his word!"
You're right, he didn't back up his word. But it hasn't been 5 years since his word. It's been 1.
I'm just saying he's not making himself look good with these statements. At the time he made that statement, he hadn't won crap in March in 4 years as head coach (unless you're going to count a couple NIT wins). He makes the bold comment to basically call out his doubters, and then proceeded to have an epic collapse in March the following season.
Now after this season, he doubles down by saying "we're going to be really good." He's setting himself up to look really foolish if they don't have a great season.
The only point I'm trying to make is he sure likes to talk big and make promises for a guy who hasn't accomplished much, despite having plenty of time & resources to get it done. I find it funny that some fans (the OP) get all fired up about his comments. Anybody can just make bold statements, wake me up when he actually backs it up.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on May 10, 2019, 12:37:29 PM
You dont think they had anything to do with it??!!! I guarantee those helicopter parents were central in it. Jealous of Markus and the first to blame the swoon not on their precious babies and their collapse but on the fact that Markus wasnt playing very well either. Recall daddy Hauser running down from the stands when Sam got hurt against DePaul, if he is an emergency room physician then i take that one back. Bi+ch ass kids typucally are the products of bi+ch ass parents.
BrewCity77 tore me a new one for something way less edgy than this post, and then he responded to you in a very civil manner. Not sure why he is singling me out for just opining on how I saw it. If he wants to call me using the term "helicopter" libel then that's fine..but a court of law wouldn't agree.
I was at the @DePaul game, sitting a few rows behind the Hausers. I'm the kind of fan who is up and standing every chance I get, as long as I'm not in somebody's way. I was impressed with the Hauser parents' game-watching immersion, but let's just say it kind of felt like they were almost coaching from the stands..lots of gesticulating and extra emotion on plays their sons were involved in...understandable...actually I was struck by how supportive they seemed to be of the whole MU program. It May have been a different scene at the Hauser dinner table or at the hotel after away games.
They clearly want the best for their kids. Can't fault them for that. I was proud of what looked like their rabid support of all things Blue and Gold. But, I think there is some truth to what you say. Thanks for saying it fearlessly.
Quote from: NorthernDancerColt on May 10, 2019, 06:05:34 AM
A couple recalcitrant players didn't trust the process and, with likely goading from helicopter parents, quit on the program. I see a fire in the eyes of coaches and players I didn't see all last year. The state of the program has never been better.
Shirley you cant be serious. State of program has never been better. Ho ho.
Quote from: Cheeks on May 10, 2019, 08:27:30 AM
Program in 77 was actually a mess .... last team into the tournament, lost last three home games, fight in the locker room...Scoop would have been insane. Then we went on a run. '03, don't you remember the gnashing of teeth on Previous board when we were blown out in CUSA tournament with like 30 turnovers? In '11, if I recall, we were 18-13 going into the Big East tournament with bracketologists wondering if we would even get in. Lost our last Big East tourney game by almost 30. We went on a run in the NCAAs.
From the mouths of babes
The 77 program was a mess. We won the freaking national championship. Bring on such a mess more often.