http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26371789/which-no-1-seed-fall
Further down in the article Marquette is mentioned as one of the teams not in the Sweet 16 who is likely to be there next year. Not all doom and gloom.
Big picture, yes. Returning the core of a 24 win team, adding 3 guards with size.
Quote from: tower912 on March 28, 2019, 08:48:22 AM
Big picture, yes. Returning the core of a 24 win team, adding 3 guards with size.
I'm excited for 8 months of "How will they get everyone minutes?" conversations before we settle into another 8 man rotation.
Quote from: Bocephys on March 28, 2019, 09:40:34 AM
I'm excited for 8 months of "How will they get everyone minutes?" conversations before we settle into another 8 man rotation.
LOL. So true.
I'm not down on Marquette at all.
We will be better next year, and I'm already looking forward to the season. Would be even more psyched if Wojo can seal the deal on a couple of the top recruits we're after.
Quote from: Bocephys on March 28, 2019, 09:40:34 AM
I'm excited for 8 months of "How will they get everyone minutes?" conversations before we settle into another 8 man rotation.
The thing about minute projections is that they are done assuming that everyone plays to their ceiling. A lot of people had Jamal as a 10-15 minute guy, and if he played to his ceiling I think he would have been. He obviously didn't and wasn't. If Koby, Greg, Dexter, and Sacar all play to their ceiling, Markus won't average 33 mpg again. The odds of all four of them playing to their ceiling are practically zero, but minute projections will be made assuming that they do.
It would be nice to have a balanced, deep roster. So that when a player, say Markus, is having a bad day, there are options.
I, like many, mostly keep quiet but are really looking forward to the future and next year. Assuming no major defections, we are adding the missing pieces to next years team.
Really looking forward to a team without obvious deficiencies going into the season! I can't remember the last time we were in that situation. Even in 2003 with Blankson defecting, we had a question mark that Novak luckily was able to fill in a different way.
The obvious caveat is no major defections... I can't wait until after we know who is officially in the NBA draft and who isn't. Fingers crossed.
Willie always next year eh
Quote from: Bocephys on March 28, 2019, 09:40:34 AM
I'm excited for 8 months of "How will they get everyone minutes?" conversations before we settle into another 8 man rotation.
Let me save everyone the drama for next year.
1. We lose a game unexpectedly early in the season. The board goes nuts on whether to fire Wojo now and scrap what is obviously a losing season.
2. We win some big games. Rack up a long winning streak and are back in the top 15. The board melts down on what we are going to do when Wojo leaves for Duke.
3. We lose a game or two to a weaker Big East team. The board melts down on our players being weak and our coach being unable to adjust.
4. Unless we win the championship or at least make the final 4. The board melts down over Wojo underperforming.
Rinse, wash, repeat. Every year.
Quote from: tower912 on March 28, 2019, 10:30:38 AM
It would be nice to have a balanced, deep roster. So that when a player, say Markus, is having a bad day, there are options.
Very well stated!
Quote from: MUMonster03 on March 28, 2019, 07:49:05 AM
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26371789/which-no-1-seed-fall
Further down in the article Marquette is mentioned as one of the teams not in the Sweet 16 who is likely to be there next year. Not all doom and gloom.
Yup. We will be really really good next year so let's all forget the monumental meltdown of this year
Quote from: willie warrior on March 28, 2019, 12:15:41 PM
Yup. We will be really really good next year so let's all forget the monumental meltdown of this year
Well bitching and moaning about it certainly isn't going to change anything.
Go have yourself a Mazos burger to cheer up!
Quote from: forgetful on March 28, 2019, 12:13:25 PM
Let me save everyone the drama for next year.
1. We lose a game unexpectedly early in the season. The board goes nuts on whether to fire Wojo now and scrap what is obviously a losing season.
2. We win some big games. Rack up a long winning streak and are back in the top 15. The board melts down on what we are going to do when Wojo leaves for Duke.
3. We lose a game or two to a weaker Big East team. The board melts down on our players being weak and our coach being unable to adjust.
4. Unless we win the championship or at least make the final 4. The board melts down over Wojo underperforming.
Rinse, wash, repeat. Every year.
Well said, except that instead of the board having a meltdown and a melt up during the win streak, it shoulda be listed to about 5 to posters who we know will go off the emotional cliff... most of the board won't and just remains in the background.
If Markus comes back, he'll play 35+mpg no question. Anyone who thinks one of our incoming guards will take some of his minutes, even on an off night, is wrong IMO. The real question will be whether or not Wojo reigns in his green light.
Quote from: Research Report on March 28, 2019, 12:59:03 PM
If Markus comes back, he'll play 35+mpg no question. Anyone who thinks one of our incoming guards will take some of his minutes, even on an off night, is wrong IMO. The real question will be whether or not Wojo reigns in his green light.
Some, yes. All, no. Ideally I would have Markus play around 27 mpg, agree on the green light reigning in.
Agreed, the fire Buzz and "how long will fans accept losing" threads are so silly - as if fans "insisting we win games" has any bearing on a team missing games. But all fan blogs for all teams are the same now.
No one is returning more than Marquette in the Big East - as thrilling as most of the year was we knew.we didn't have a point guard (we had an All-American shooting guard forced to play PG). Now we have 2.
Looking forward to next year, most people are not down on MU....there are a few exceptions and they are outliers.
Quote from: tower912 on March 28, 2019, 10:30:38 AM
It would be nice to have a balanced, deep roster. So that when a player, say Markus, is having a bad day, there are options.
Markus started the Buffalo game something like 1-7, several turnovers and several fouls in the first half, with only 5 points. That was a bad half a day.
40 points in the 2nd half, and needed him to beat #12.
I don't know if anyone can conclude Markus is having a bad day until it's too late cuz he can put up 12 points in 2 minutes.....but when he goes 0-5 in that same time frame then it's obvious, but often too late.
Not down on MU at all.
Think it would be a mistake to play Markus 35+ minutes if others can assume a spot role or if we can distribute more effectively than we did this year. You have to pick your spots where Markus will matter and if you run him like we did this year, he'll be spent by mid-February.
Ditto for Sam.
Think we should be an Elite 8 team next year and certainly Top 10 if everything pans out. If we avoid the February meltdown next year, we could well be a two-seed.
Excited for next year! GO Warriors!!!!
Quote from: forgetful on March 28, 2019, 12:13:25 PM
Let me save everyone the drama for next year.
1. We lose a game unexpectedly early in the season. The board goes nuts on whether to fire Wojo now and scrap what is obviously a losing season.
2. We win some big games. Rack up a long winning streak and are back in the top 15. The board melts down on what we are going to do when Wojo leaves for Duke.
3. We lose a game or two to a weaker Big East team. The board melts down on our players being weak and our coach being unable to adjust.
4. Unless we win the championship or at least make the final 4. The board melts down over Wojo underperforming.
Rinse, wash, repeat. Every year.
Oh My, who will buy Tickets?
Quote from: forgetful on March 28, 2019, 12:13:25 PM
Let me save everyone the drama for next year.
1. We lose a game unexpectedly early in the season. The board goes nuts on whether to fire Wojo now and scrap what is obviously a losing season.
2. We win some big games. Rack up a long winning streak and are back in the top 15. The board melts down on what we are going to do when Wojo leaves for Duke.
3. We lose a game or two to a weaker Big East team. The board melts down on our players being weak and our coach being unable to adjust.
4. Unless we win the championship or at least make the final 4. The board melts down over Wojo underperforming.
Rinse, wash, repeat. Every year.
Spare me. We win 1 tourney game (maybe only be competitive in a loss) and only the fringe Wojo-haters complain. I would say the complete breakdown at the end of the year, with players and coaches flailing around looking for an answer they never found, is the cause of the resurgence of Bert love.
Quote from: tower912 on March 28, 2019, 10:30:38 AM
It would be nice to have a balanced, deep roster. So that when a player, say Markus, is having a bad day, there are options.
Yes and a loaded 2020 class to follow. It will be all Sea Shells and Balloons with a little perspective.
Quote from: Research Report on March 28, 2019, 12:59:03 PM
If Markus comes back, he'll play 35+mpg no question. Anyone who thinks one of our incoming guards will take some of his minutes, even on an off night, is wrong IMO. The real question will be whether or not Wojo reigns in his green light.
I agree with this analysis.
Quote from: Herman Cain on March 29, 2019, 12:52:39 AM
I agree with this analysis.
Fair enough...but get the ball out of his hands on the dribble! Let him be a setup scorer off the ball. And yes, there should be a semi-green light.
The Hauser's need to be very very involved.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on March 28, 2019, 08:59:55 PM
Yes and a loaded 2020 class to follow. It will be all Sea Shells and Balloons with a little perspective.
...lol There are options, man. But they are too ball dominant on one guy.
They just never go to them. There is not a PG to find those options because he is usually with the ball in his hands shooting all the time. You need balance as you said.
And that is not possible with one guy taking all the shots, even if he is not open. Alot of guys are just kick back options that only get a shot late in the clock or off of action that does not go to the primary scorer which has been Markus.
They need to install a different offensive scheme next year that will include some new guys like Greg and McEwen who may be able to shoulder the load.
In fact, if it was me I would tell Markus to just go to the NBA before he gets typecast in college. His stock will go nowhere but down after this. Take this year and move on...
Marquette will be fun to watch next year. I think MU challenges for conference title and back to the NCAA. The sun is breaking through the clouds. Having Koby and Greg on the court along with Markus and Sacar will be great. Brendan with some additional weight, strength, speed and accuracy will be a major X factor. Jamal if he can recover his mojo with Greg and Koby on the court. Joey H with a year's experience, strength and speed. Sam and Markus the corner stones of the program. Theo and Ed will be improved. Hopefully Ike's back recovers. The stress put on the back of an elite athlete must be tremendous. Dexter, learning from the seasoned guard corp and ready to step in if someone is injured.
I would take a convincing first round win and competive close loss in the second round.
Im usually a wojo hater but the above would be good enough to show we still have some positive trend.
Im still perplexed by all the posters that still have markus in the "what if he goes pro" category. He has zero chance of making an nba roster at the moment. His only chance is going over seas and i really dont think theres too many instances of a POY type player leaving early for europe?????
If Markus stays he is going to spend the year being doubled team/face guarded etc... Sure NCAA tournament success/Big East Championships are lacking on his resume, but what do those really mean if your ultimate goal is something bigger. He has already walked away early once in his career path and it hasn't hurt him. You could have said then, play another year and maybe Duke/Kentucky/Kansas would take/feature you. If his ultimate goal is the NBA, he will likely have the opportunity to be a late 2nd rounder/2-way player and focus his entire life on basketball. I really see no upside for him at MU next year. He can prove he can be a scoring point guard in the G League with way less gimmick defenses and pressure.
Watching the tournament, it's striking how physically far away we are from the top teams/players. IMO, biggest thing is the Hausers will need to make some huge improvements during the offseason S&C program since they will be taking over half of the front-court minutes next year. GE/Cain/Bailey will all have to reach another level physically as well.
does anyone on the team come from indiana? markus and bailey (at least) are working out in michigan city, indiana. and markus is still wearing marquette gear!
Jaffe is from there.
Quote from: WithoutBias on March 30, 2019, 07:41:34 PM
does anyone on the team come from indiana? markus and bailey (at least) are working out in michigan city, indiana. and markus is still wearing marquette gear!
That Kline dude for Purdue is right outta hooozers man. Home cookin Indiana hooozer
Quote from: dw3dw3dw3 on March 30, 2019, 07:29:08 PM
If Markus stays he is going to spend the year being doubled team/face guarded etc... Sure NCAA tournament success/Big East Championships are lacking on his resume, but what do those really mean if your ultimate goal is something bigger. He has already walked away early once in his career path and it hasn't hurt him. You could have said then, play another year and maybe Duke/Kentucky/Kansas would take/feature you. If his ultimate goal is the NBA, he will likely have the opportunity to be a late 2nd rounder/2-way player and focus his entire life on basketball. I really see no upside for him at MU next year. He can prove he can be a scoring point guard in the G League with way less gimmick defenses and pressure.
Watching the tournament, it's striking how physically far away we are from the top teams/players. IMO, biggest thing is the Hausers will need to make some huge improvements during the offseason S&C program since they will be taking over half of the front-court minutes next year. GE/Cain/Bailey will all have to reach another level physically as well.
Wait, I thought we had the best strength and conditioning program in the country.
Quote from: lawdog77 on March 31, 2019, 09:03:25 AM
Wait, I thought we had the best strength and conditioning program in the country.
We still do. But rehab saps your ability to build on that (see, hausers).
After watching MSU v. Duke my optimism for next year went down a few notches. I don't see Marquette with the athleticism or quickness to contend with those teams. Watching the team struggle late in the season against athletic guards, and then watching the tournament made me wonder if I am over-estimating next year's team.
Quote from: warriorfred on March 31, 2019, 08:17:23 PM
After watching MSU v. Duke my optimism for next year went down a few notches. I don't see Marquette with the athleticism or quickness to contend with those teams. Watching the team struggle late in the season against athletic guards, and then watching the tournament made me wonder if I am over-estimating nest year's team.
I had the same feeling watching the e8 games. We're a ways away from being at that e8 level athletically.
Like them but I find it hard to believe koby and Greg are going to push the athletic meter enough to compete at that level.
Quite possible I'm falling victim to recency bias though, as I thought we could play with anyone when we were 24-3.
Quote from: WindyCityGoldenEagle on March 31, 2019, 08:52:39 PM
I had the same feeling watching the e8 games. We're a ways away from being at that e8 level athletically.
Like them but I find it hard to believe koby and Greg are going to push the athletic meter enough to compete at that level.
Quite possible I'm falling victim to recency bias though, as I thought we could play with anyone when we were 24-3.
During the streak, I felt like the Warriors could compete at an Elite 8 level (although, I would have taken Duke 7 out of 10 meetings). Now I am struggling with the idea. After watching the Elite 8, the other teams had so much more energy. Marquette was flat the last 4 weeks of the season. I tend to think it was a lack of athleticism, but it could be the team lost conditioning . . . not sure.
2 potential team scenarios:
Return Markus, Sam, Joey, Theo, Samar, Ed, add Koby, Greg and lose no significant players.
Markus leaves, return Sam, Joey, Theo, Samar, Ed, add Koby, Greg, also add Symir Torrence who moves into the 2019 class.
If Koby/Symir/Greg truly are the way to better the point guard situation I see no reason that the second theoretical team couldn't be just as good as the team with Markus on it. Replacing 25 points/game would be tough though. Depends on what Symir can handle as a freshman and if Koby is as good as advertised.
Quote from: warriorfred on March 31, 2019, 08:17:23 PM
After watching MSU v. Duke my optimism for next year went down a few notches. I don't see Marquette with the athleticism or quickness to contend with those teams. Watching the team struggle late in the season against athletic guards, and then watching the tournament made me wonder if I am over-estimating next year's team.
I think most of the people attacking Wojo are being overly optimistic about the teams ability, and having unrealistic expectations.
I figured we'd be safely in this year, but likely a 8-10 seed. We outperformed our ability. I think we will have a similar level of performance next year (3-6 seed), unless someone becomes a dynamic attack the basket and distribute PG.
This team likely may not have a single future NBA player on the team. They are skilled players, but either lack size (Howard) or next-level athleticism (Sam and Joey). I think both Sam and Joey are significantly hampered recovering from difficult injuries (hip and ankle). Great basketball players, but very likely not the total package for the NBA. That could change for Sam or Joey if they can gain some more mobility/athleticism in recovering from the injuries/surgeries.
When we were playing closer to our ceiling we were a legitimate top 10 team. When we were playing near our floor we were a bubble team. I think our average was somewhere in the 5-8 seed range.
How much more athletic than Marquette is Virginia? Diakite is long and somewhat athletic but far from a freak athlete. Hunter is big/strong and athletic but again not some freak. After that? Salt is a giant but far from athletic and Guy/Hunter/Clark are not athletic in the least. Their best athlete is Huff, who hasn't played much in this Tourney.
Same with Loyola last year. They had maybe 2 good athletes for this level?
Athleticism does not equate to a good basketball team. I'm much more concerned with the offense and lack of care for the basketball than I am about not having NBA athletes in college basketball.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 31, 2019, 10:49:13 PM
When we were playing closer to our ceiling we were a legitimate top 10 team. When we were playing near our floor we were a bubble team. I think our average was somewhere in the 5-8 seed range.
From 3:00 to 3:30 they played like a top ten team. Thought something special was happening (lol). My favorite stretch of basketball this season.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EGvbvpj6KDU
Quote from: wadesworld on March 31, 2019, 11:58:54 PM
How much more athletic than Marquette is Virginia?
I'm much more concerned with the offense and lack of care for the basketball than I am about not having NBA athletes in college basketball.
Wades I was thinking the same thing. We have a roster similar to Virginia but I'm not sure Wojo has the same offensive discipline and play setup, to win at a high level with a roster like that. It may improve when we have a different PG who is better at setting up others but that is the big question. To me MU is more likely to have consistent success if it isn't premised on having NBA level athletes.
Get old, stay old.