I can't sleep, didn't watch a second of hoops after the MU game, and this still bugs me.
Howard picked up that cheap second foul around the 4 minute mark, and Woj sat him. I thought it was a big mistake at the time and posted that in the game thread. MU was getting a couple more calls against them than the Racers, but the tempo and flow didn't lend itself to a physical foul fest. Joey was already sitting with two, and at that point it was still very much a game.
For 3 minutes or so, Woj played with fire, sitting Howard. It was ok, MU lost their small lead,but was hanging in there magically with a lineup of Sacar, Sam, Joe, Bailey, and Morrow. That unit had no business on the floor together during a BE game, let alone the tournament.
MU is down 2 at 1:07, and you got the sense it was coming, and the wheels just completely fall off. Racers basket, bad MU possession, MU steal with 34 ticks, Bailey with as poor an understanding of time/situation possible and jacks up a quick terrible three, Morant comes down, step back 3 to close the half. Worse yet, I realized it before the first half ended, Racers had the arrow to start the second half.
Woj really needed to keep Howard in for that stretch. MU probably still gets blitzed going away, but to me, that was the turning point. 1:07 in the first half down 2, and two minutes and fourteen seconds of game time later, MU is down 11. By the time Howard was back, it was already too late.
We didn't lose; we were humiliated by a mid major of very thin accomplishment on a very public stage.
I urge you to watch the other teams. Get some perspective. It is a pleasure watching a well coached squad of skilled, disciplined, athletic ballers play with precision and purpose.
John Beilein and Michigan is one such team. Watching them play together is a joy.
Quote from: Jon on March 22, 2019, 01:32:58 AM
We didn't lose; we were humiliated by a mid major of very thin accomplishment on a very public stage.
I urge you to watch the other teams. Get some perspective. It is a pleasure watching a well coached squad of skilled, disciplined, athletic ballers play with precision and purpose.
John Beilein and Michigan is one such team. Watching them play together is a joy.
boy, what a silly comment... let's see how deep JaJam and company go, Murray St it appears, has just quality enough a supporting cast for a deep run... actually, reminds me a lot of Dwade Marquette F4 team.... and maybe that frosh who hit all the treys is their Steve Novak..
mid-major, power 5/6, don't Matta when comes to Big Dance, JON, or did ya miss last year's Loyola of Chicago squad? in fact, maybe you missed the last ~30 years of the Big Dance since that's main reason non-regular-season-college-baskebtball fans become college basketball fans in March...
geez
goinUptown
Quote from: Jon on March 22, 2019, 01:32:58 AM
We didn't lose; we were humiliated by a mid major of very thin accomplishment on a very public stage.
I urge you to watch the other teams. Get some perspective. It is a pleasure watching a well coached squad of skilled, disciplined, athletic ballers play with precision and purpose.
John Beilein and Michigan is one such team. Watching them play together is a joy.
I stopped watching Beilein after he embarrassed Michigan for 5 years by failing to get out of the first weekend culminating in a humiliating loss to a 13 seed in his fifth year. I knew then that Michigan was doomed to mediocrity
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 22, 2019, 07:31:30 AM
I stopped watching Beilein after he embarrassed Michigan for 5 years by failing to get out of the first weekend culminating in a humiliating loss to a 13 seed in his fifth year. I knew then that Michigan was doomed to mediocrity
Really? I kept watching. I mean he was 2-3 in the tourney and on his way to playing for a national championship in what, year 6? And this on the heals of some great tourney runs with WV. Surely you're not comparing his trend line to Wojo's? I hope not
Quote from: goinUptown on March 22, 2019, 06:08:47 AM
boy, what a silly comment... let's see how deep JaJam and company go, Murray St it appears, has just quality enough a supporting cast for a deep run... actually, reminds me a lot of Dwade Marquette F4 team.... and maybe that frosh who hit all the treys is their Steve Novak..
mid-major, power 5/6, don't Matta when comes to Big Dance, JON, or did ya miss last year's Loyola of Chicago squad? in fact, maybe you missed the last ~30 years of the Big Dance since that's main reason non-regular-season-college-baskebtball fans become college basketball fans in March...
geez
goinUptown
Theyre going to get crushed. Absolutely crushed.
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 22, 2019, 07:43:36 AM
Really? I kept watching. I mean he was 2-3 in the tourney and on his way to playing for a national championship in what, year 6? And this on the heals of some great tourney runs with WV. Surely you're not comparing his trend line to Wojo's? I hope not
No. If I wanted to do that, I would have used Beilein's first five years as a head coach. The 5 years at Michigan were years 25-30.
The point I was making was that coaches improve over time and that an embarrassing loss in the tournament does not mean the season was a waste or that the future will be bad.
My secondary point was that most fans would be terrible ADs. Plenty of Michigan fans would have fired Beilein after the loss to Ohio.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 22, 2019, 08:40:32 AM
No. If I wanted to do that, I would have used Beilein's first five years as a head coach. The 5 years at Michigan were years 25-30.
The point I was making was that coaches improve over time and that an embarrassing loss in the tournament does not mean the season was a waste or that the future will be bad.
My secondary point was that most fans would be terrible ADs. Plenty of Michigan fans would have fired Beilein after the loss to Ohio.
I'd venture to guess most Marquette fans would be pretty satisfied if Wojo was 2-3 im the tourney after his first five seasons
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 22, 2019, 09:54:03 AM
I'd venture to guess most Marquette fans would be pretty satisfied if Wojo was 2-3 im the tourney after his first five seasons
Marquette fans? Sure
MUScoopers? You must be new here.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 22, 2019, 09:56:36 AM
Marquette fans? Sure
MUScoopers? You must be new here.
Well I can speak for myself and I think I'm well aligned with most of the frustrated scoop fans (with exception of the irrational crazies) and I can say I'd be very bullish on the future with those results
Quote from: Jon on March 22, 2019, 01:32:58 AM
We didn't lose; we were humiliated by a mid major of very thin accomplishment on a very public stage.
I urge you to watch the other teams. Get some perspective. It is a pleasure watching a well coached squad of skilled, disciplined, athletic ballers play with precision and purpose.
John Beilein and Michigan is one such team. Watching them play together is a joy.
MS is an excellent team. This was just a horrible matchup for MU. We are not athletic, Hausers too slow, that is on Wojo. He needs a few athletic players. But, we lost to South Carolina in the first round and they ended up making a great run. MS might do exactly the same thing. The luck of the draw in both examples was just not in MU's favor. First 75% of this season was fun. The last month speaks for itself. And Wojo is not going anywhere unless he wants to leave. This administration loves him and the boosters are not getting antsy. That could change in another year or two, but Wojo has a long leash.
I'll post it again.
In 364 days, if MU doesn't have an NCAA win, Wojo should be fired in the post-game locker room. That's the length of the leash. No more excuses.
Absolutely agree the game was lost in that last minute or two
Baileys absolutely stupid jack was wrong for so many reasons. I posted about it in a different thread but oir shot selction and team iQ was really bad all year. Perfect time for a few ball reversals an a post up or screen for sam and we get a quick fading jack by a freshman who is shooting 25%
Quote from: MUDish on March 22, 2019, 01:11:16 AM
I can't sleep, didn't watch a second of hoops after the MU game, and this still bugs me.
Howard picked up that cheap second foul around the 4 minute mark, and Woj sat him. I thought it was a big mistake at the time and posted that in the game thread. MU was getting a couple more calls against them than the Racers, but the tempo and flow didn't lend itself to a physical foul fest. Joey was already sitting with two, and at that point it was still very much a game.
For 3 minutes or so, Woj played with fire, sitting Howard. It was ok, MU lost their small lead,but was hanging in there magically with a lineup of Sacar, Sam, Joe, Bailey, and Morrow. That unit had no business on the floor together during a BE game, let alone the tournament.
MU is down 2 at 1:07, and you got the sense it was coming, and the wheels just completely fall off. Racers basket, bad MU possession, MU steal with 34 ticks, Bailey with as poor an understanding of time/situation possible and jacks up a quick terrible three, Morant comes down, step back 3 to close the half. Worse yet, I realized it before the first half ended, Racers had the arrow to start the second half.
Woj really needed to keep Howard in for that stretch. MU probably still gets blitzed going away, but to me, that was the turning point. 1:07 in the first half down 2, and two minutes and fourteen seconds of game time later, MU is down 11. By the time Howard was back, it was already too late.
That was a big series of plays, no doubt.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 22, 2019, 09:56:36 AM
Marquette fans? Sure
MUScoopers? You must be new here.
Nothing but nylon, TAMU!
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 22, 2019, 11:01:41 AM
I'll post it again.
In 364 days, if MU doesn't have an NCAA win, Wojo should be fired in the post-game locker room. That's the length of the leash. No more excuses.
You can say that all you want, but its not true. If Wojo turns in another first round exit after earning a high seed he will be back again. Gotta have a bad season to get fired, not a bad game.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 22, 2019, 11:01:41 AM
I'll post it again.
In 364 days, if MU doesn't have an NCAA win, Wojo should be fired in the post-game locker room. That's the length of the leash. No more excuses.
You are dreaming if you think Wojo gets the Lane Kiffin treatment if he does not win an NCAA game next season. Absolutely not going to happen. So be prepared for your head to explode next season.
Quote from: 79Warrior on March 22, 2019, 11:52:08 AM
You are dreaming if you think Wojo gets the Lane Kiffin treatment if he does not win an NCAA game next season. Absolutely not going to happen. So be prepared for your head to explode next season.
You are right, but personally I'd rather prepare for a deep tournament run. I like topper, I'd hate to see his head explode. Though it would be fascinating given that I assume he is at least 78% beef and cheddar by this point.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on March 22, 2019, 11:46:45 AM
Nothing but nylon, TAMU!
Really? So you too think most scoopers would be this outraged if Wojo was 2-3 in the tourney five years in? Someone should start a poll. I think you're both exaggerating scoop's expectations
Can we all agree that the goal is for MU to aspire to be as good as UW, at least occasionally?
I heard this on the radio, it's amazing if true: The last dozen times UW made it to the NCAAs, they made it out of the first round 11 out of 12. WOW.
My MU neighbor (Scoop lurker) told me his kid 'committed' to UW yesterday. I said I was sorry for his loss, but told him he should use this opportunity to go full Badger and escape, he'll be much a much happier sports fan.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 22, 2019, 01:37:24 PM
Can we all agree that the goal is for MU to aspire to be as good as UW, at least occasionally?
I heard this on the radio, it's amazing if true: The last dozen times UW made it to the NCAAs, they made it out of the first round 11 out of 12. WOW.
My MU neighbor (Scoop lurker) told me his kid 'committed' to UW yesterday. I said I was sorry for his loss, but told him he should use this opportunity to go full Badger and escape, he'll be much a much happier sports fan.
11 out of 13 now, kin.
His mistake was double teaming. How the staff came up with that one was terrible. We do not have the personnel or foot speed to play against someone like that. There were times we had 3 guys on him. Play it straight up, run Cain, BB, Anim at him all day. It may not have worked, but the double team was poor strategy.
Florida State Seminoles will not make that mistake.
Quote from: 79Warrior on March 22, 2019, 10:17:43 AM
MS is an excellent team. This was just a horrible matchup for MU. We are not athletic, Hausers too slow, that is on Wojo. He needs a few athletic players. But, we lost to South Carolina in the first round and they ended up making a great run. MS might do exactly the same thing. The luck of the draw in both examples was just not in MU's favor. First 75% of this season was fun. The last month speaks for itself. And Wojo is not going anywhere unless he wants to leave. This administration loves him and the boosters are not getting antsy. That could change in another year or two, but Wojo has a long leash.
Not really in agreement on the athleticism argument. MU has athletic players. Unfortunately a number of them have not played earned consistent minutes most of the season, or they're sitting out due to injury or transfer. Murray State had that big log under the hoop doing work. None of their guards other than Ja seemed overly athletic either. MU was flat-out beaten. Plenty capable of winning that game but crapped the bed and Ja took over.
I think bringing Elliot, McEwen, and potentially Eke will certainly help. Theo and Morrow are both athletic. Sam has always been a solid, smart defender.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 22, 2019, 11:01:41 AM
I'll post it again.
In 364 days, if MU doesn't have an NCAA win, Wojo should be fired in the post-game locker room. That's the length of the leash. No more excuses.
What a wonderfully Catholic Cura Personalis thing to do.
This reminds of a friend that worked for me for many years, now is at HBO. His dad was the GM of the Detroit Lions. He hired Wayne Fontes, drafted Barry Sanders. They got to a certain level, then they fired him. Great guy, had a chance to talk to him at my friend's wedding this past summer. Well, they wanted to go better, thought they could get better....hired Matt Millen and the rest is history. Browns, similar with a guy named Bill Belichek. I'm not pretending Wojo is him or will be a legend, but my point is that all this firing talk is really humorous...who is coming in to replace him again? Will it be like the last time with Danny Manning? Etc?
Feels like zero plan, lots of bluster that people have and be damned with the ramifications.
Quote from: Cheeks on March 22, 2019, 08:37:50 PM
What a wonderfully Catholic Cura Personalis thing to do.
This reminds of a friend that worked for me for many years, now is at HBO. His dad was the GM of the Detroit Lions. He hired Wayne Fontes, drafted Barry Sanders. They got to a certain level, then they fired him. Great guy, had a chance to talk to him at my friend's wedding this past summer. Well, they wanted to go better, thought they could get better....hired Matt Millen and the rest is history. Browns, similar with a guy named Bill Belichek. I'm not pretending Wojo is him or will be a legend, but my point is that all this firing talk is really humorous...who is coming in to replace him again? Will it be like the last time with Danny Manning? Etc?
Feels like zero plan, lots of bluster that people have and be damned with the ramifications.
So your position is that nobody should ever be fired/held accountable unless you have proof that the next guy will be better? Feels like a dumb plan (to the extent that it even can be called a plan).
Cheeks thought Hugh Jackson should get another 2 years to rebuild
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 22, 2019, 08:45:34 PM
So your position is that nobody should ever be fired/held accountable unless you have proof that the next guy will be better? Feels like a dumb plan (to the extent that it even can be called a plan).
Nope, not my position, but you better at least have a good plan in place. What I'm seeing is FIRE WOJO....and then nothing. That's the problem.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 22, 2019, 08:45:34 PM
So your position is that nobody should ever be fired/held accountable unless you have proof that the next guy will be better? Feels like a dumb plan (to the extent that it even can be called a plan).
No the point is if you don't have a replacement "target" in place and already negotiated, firing is foolish.
Quote from: CleanishProgram on March 22, 2019, 08:50:44 PM
Cheeks thought Hugh Jackson should get another 2 years to rebuild
No, but as a resident of Cleveland for many years I didn't think they should fire Belichek......how did that work out?