It may be too soon for this, but I think I can be rational.
1. IMO, losing Greg really hurt. It could have been managed, but it was coupled with Chartouny not panning out, a la Lockett, Carlino, Kaitin. Those two things left MU woefully thin at guard. It came back to bite MU down the stretch.
2. The Hausers. Man, they have pretty shots. Man, they are slow. I believe Sam's hip and Joey's ankle prevented them from getting the strength and conditioning they would have otherwise and affected their overall quickness by a half step. They both had really great moments, but Joey hit the freshman wall and struggled overall after February 1. He isn't the first or last freshman to do so. It is my fervent hope that both are able to really work on their legs and core during the offseason and find a half step each.
3. Markus. BEPOY, Second team all American. Occasional bouts of hero ball, sure, but until he hurt his wrist and groin he treated MU fans to performances unlike any we have ever seen before. I would have loved for him to sit more. See 1.
4. Sacar. I did not think he would play as much as he did. In some ways, his play was a harbinger of the team. When he was good, the team was good. When he was tentative with the ball and in foul trouble, the team was bad.
5. Theo made great strides. But he needs to make more. IMO, he got block happy and it impacted his rebounding positioning.
He needs to get another year smarter.
6. Morrow was a nice back up center who had some nice moments. But he is not a 4 and should not be a starter.
7. I said after the first game that Bailey was quicker than Joey. He certainly was. He showed real promise as a defensive stopper. He earned his minutes down the stretch. I fully believe he will find his shot next year.
8. Cain and Heldt. A case could be made that both deserved more minutes, even a few to help them find their confidence and rest others. A case can also be made that their on court performance indicated they were playing the correct amount. Thank you, Matt, for 4 years of great character and representing the university so well. I hope Jamal comes back.
9. Wojo..... I have spent a lot of time pointing out flaws. When you take those flaws into account, the 23-4 record and 20-2 run are remarkable things. Down the stretch, though, when other teams adjusted, Wojo's counter adjustments were not successful. A case can be made that he did the best he could with the pieces he had. A case can be made that there were options he could have tried and didn't. I see the wisdom of both arguments. I have mentioned before and I will say it again. He is starting to remind me of Crean. He has yet to make a team more than the sum of its parts. I haven't given up on him yet, but I am not blind to the frustration of others or their reasoning.
The team met my expectations. The last 3 weeks have been difficult, no doubt.
Easily the best, and most well reasoned, post of the post season....for now.
Agree with Joe C, he was not even close to what expectations were. Not even close.
Don't agree with injuries with Hausers. Yes, Markus hurt wrist and that was accurate. But, he said he was 100% healed and good to go. Whether to believe unknown, might have said it for opponents sake. No mention whatsoever, nothing, about Sam's hip or Joey's ankle all year. MU goes into slump and all of a sudden Sam's hip is an issue, now Joey's ankle.
Maybe an error that Morrow is not a 5, not the 4 you mentioned.
Shocked if Jamal returns.
Good stuff.
Who's going to the Awards Banquet, aina?
Quote from: nyg on March 21, 2019, 08:55:34 PM
Agree with Joe C, he was not even close to what expectations were. Not even close.
Good stuff.
What were expectations for Chartouny? He was the third leading scorer on a garbage Fordham team and wasn't even all A-10. He was a back-up and little more. Even Cremo, who everyone was made we lost, only averaged 4.3 a game for Nova after averaging 17 at Albany. I feel many put far too much hope in graduate transfers.
Quote from: nyg on March 21, 2019, 08:55:34 PM
Agree with Joe C, he was not even close to what expectations were. Not even close.
Don't agree with injuries with Hausers. Yes, Markus hurt wrist and that was accurate. But, he said he was 100% healed and good to go. Whether to believe unknown, might have said it for opponents sake. No mention whatsoever, nothing, about Sam's hip or Joey's ankle all year. MU goes into slump and all of a sudden Sam's hip is an issue, now Joey's ankle.
Maybe an error that Morrow is not a 5, not the 4 you mentioned.
Shocked if Jamal returns.
Good stuff.
With the Hauser's, tower was saying they weren't building strength and quickness in the off season because they had to recuperate first before they can train and grow.
Nice balanced post. I think next year is Wojo's last. That's all I got.
As remarkable as the 23-4 record was so is the record that closed out the season. Completely erased anything positive that was built prior to the collapse.
And mu is treading water as a program another season
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on March 21, 2019, 09:01:10 PM
What were expectations for Chartouny? He was the third leading scorer on a garbage Fordham team and wasn't even all A-10. He was a back-up and little more. Even Cremo, who everyone was made we lost, only averaged 4.3 a game for Nova after averaging 17 at Albany. I feel many put far too much hope in graduate transfers.
I thought he would be a decent defender and adequate ball handler. He looked the former at times, but he was terrible at the latter.
Disappointing finish, but about where I thought they would be.
Top 3 Big East, some big wins, some not so great losses, NCAA bid, and then the crapshoot based on who we get. We beat a 4, 5, 6, 7, 10 seeded teams in this tournament during the regular season. Who you play matters. Plenty of teams we could have played and beat, but not that type of team.
Crapshoot
Re #9:
Was driving home from the XL Center (a horribly designed, outdated pit) and while cogitating about the pathetic game, thought "What the hell did Wojo change after the slide was obvious?"
We stopped for dinner, and my spouse, a dedicated fan but not a font of knowledge with respect to hoops, asked me the same GD question!
I've basically been a supporter of Wojo. He recruits well. He has the program trending up, and so far it's apparently clean.
Down 7 at the half, I facetiously said "Wait until you see the adjustments our genius makes at the half." Well, from down 7 to down 20 in short order.
I believe he is committed to his players, I've seen him get emotional discussing them a couple of times. I think he is interested in running a clean program. I believe he has improved the program.
I do, however, have serious doubts about his ability to be a really good tactitian. I was re-reading the post and the "slide" referred to relates not to the game tonight but to the season.
I know people will say "He had limited options." Well, that's partly on him. The Gregg injury (or the exacerbation of the original) was unlucky, but I don't know if he would have been the answer.
I'm sure he will be with us for another year (pocketing several million dollars along the way).
The team next year is supposed to be even better than this year' edition. If we are still having these kinds of discussions a year hence, would we all not be in agreement as to the future of Wojo?
Good post miles and a fair question. Wojo was severely out coached down the stretch. Today he had is rear handed to him and would have vs most teams in this tournament. That has nothing to do with it being a crapshoot
I like Woj, I really do, but it pains me that he can't take an MU team up a notch. In a way, his career accomplishments at MU perfectly define him as a coach. Good enough to be good, but far from great. In a season where the BE was way down, MU had a fantastic schedule in conference play to their advantage, MU found a way to lose the regular season title, rather than go out and grab it.
What's of interest to me is what other options were there outside of Chartouny. Did MU possibly pass on another player to get dibs on Joe? His roster spot became much more valuable once Elliott redshirted. For the record, MU probably wasn't going to get some 5 star stud instead of Joe, but down the stretch of the season when MU really needed someone there, he obviously was not the answer. That was a clear player evaluation mistake by the coaching staff.
I'll give Woj another year, but agree with Topper...a year from now if MU is still winless in the NCAA's under Woj (who will have coached an NBA lottery pick, MU's all time leading scorer, and perhaps the best brother tandem in Wisconsin basketball history), then Woj should be immediately gone.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on March 21, 2019, 09:01:10 PM
What were expectations for Chartouny? He was the third leading scorer on a garbage Fordham team and wasn't even all A-10. He was a back-up and little more. Even Cremo, who everyone was made we lost, only averaged 4.3 a game for Nova after averaging 17 at Albany. I feel many put far too much hope in graduate transfers.
I had thought he would be the defensive point guard that Rowsey wasn't. The one asset MU was missing, a tall defensive guard, not two midgets.
Didn't he like lead country or conference in steals? How did he do that as a backup at Fordham? I must be missing something here.
I have much more confidence in McEwen next year over what Joe was.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 21, 2019, 09:01:57 PM
With the Hauser's, tower was saying they weren't building strength and quickness in the off season because they had to recuperate first before they can train and grow.
Been saying the Hausers one for a bit. They just look underconditioned. Part of the issue with rehabbing, as stated above. Team ran out of steam. Just wish it wouldnt have happened this way.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on March 21, 2019, 09:11:25 PM
Re #9:
Was driving home from the XL Center (a horribly designed, outdated pit) and while cogitating about the pathetic game, thought "What the hell did Wojo change after the slide was obvious?"
We stopped for dinner, and my spouse, a dedicated fan but not a font of knowledge with respect to hoops, asked me the same GD question!
I've basically been a supporter of Wojo. He recruits well. He has the program trending up, and so far it's apparently clean.
Down 7 at the half, I facetiously said "Wait until you see the adjustments our genius makes at the half." Well, from down 7 to down 20 in short order.
I believe he is committed to his players, I've seen him get emotional discussing them a couple of times. I think he is interested in running a clean program. I believe he has improved the program.
I do, however, have serious doubts about his ability to be a really good tactitian. I was re-reading the post and the "slide" referred to relates not to the game tonight but to the season.
I know people will say "He had limited options." Well, that's partly on him. The Gregg injury (or the exacerbation of the original) was unlucky, but I don't know if he would have been the answer.
I'm sure he will be with us for another year (pocketing several million dollars along the way).
The team next year is supposed to be even better than this year' edition. If we are still having these kinds of discussions a year hence, would we all not be in agreement as to the future of Wojo?
Great post. I have largely been on the Wojo bandwagon and felt the program was progressing on and off the court in an acceptable and predictable pace. And his recruiting chops seemed solid as we have been on many coveted recruits and landed more than enough to compete at a high level. But his coaching feels more and more suspect. The lack of in game adjustments in the last Creighton and Georgetown games had me confused and concerned.
His seat should be hot. Should be no excuses and I am not a perpetual wait until next year optimist.... but, he has all of his players, experienced, back...the roster composition is all on him. If he can't have a seriously significant season next year with signs of consistent enduring program success...it is time to move on...6 years is beyond an objectively fair opportunity.
Is Symir a guard or a wing? At any rate would be nice to have him on board next year. Wojo's woes have been when we have guards we have no bigs. Now that we have bigs we have no guards in particular a pg.
Fools are in da Nile, hey?
You can't hide your lyin' eyes
And your smile is a thin disguise
I thought by now you'd realize
There ain't no way to hide your lyin' eyes
There ain't no way to hide your lyin' eyes
Honey, you can't hide your lyin' eyes
Tower, you're being very kind to Wojo on the Crean comparison. Five years in, TC had real accomplishments to point to. What the hell has Wojo done?
Wojo's closest comp is Mike Deane.
Quote from: Herman Cain on March 21, 2019, 09:40:36 PM
Wojo's closest comp is Mike Deane.
I mentioned this a few weeks ago. With the season now in the books, it's fair to look at. And by the five year mark, KO, TC, and Buzz all had conference titles and NCAA success during that period. What's Wojo have?
Lockett, Carlino and Reinhart were very solid contributors. Chartouny was not and there's really no comparison.
The Hausers have great size and can really score. They just aren't great athletes and not very quick. I wouldn't expect that to change and Wojo just needs to plan around it.
Quote from: Cheeks on March 21, 2019, 09:05:41 PM
Disappointing finish, but about where I thought they would be.
Top 3 Big East, some big wins, some not so great losses, NCAA bid, and then the crapshoot based on who we get. We beat a 4, 5, 6, 7, 10 seeded teams in this tournament during the regular season. Who you play matters. Plenty of teams we could have played and beat, but not that type of team.
Crapshoot
We beat the 4,5 and 7 a loooong time ago. The last THREE times we played the 6 and 10 we lost. We were finished a month ago. Every potential 12, 11 and 10 were praying to get us. Didn't matter who, we were going down. This match up, crapshoot stuff is weak sauce excuse making. #bullshyte #slurper
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 21, 2019, 09:34:37 PM
Fools are in da Nile, hey?
Nah, they were in a lot of scoopers' moms about 9 months before they were born...hey?
Successful season. We our Super Bowl against UW-Madison. All that matters.
Thanks for the respectful and well thought out post. I can't help but ask your reasoning for your thoughts on Morrow, though.
He should have started at the end of the season. Theo was in free fall. Ed plays his a$$ off and was much more reliable stay in the Game, get boards and score points. Theo looked disinterested in basketball the latter quarter of the season.
Quote from: nyg on March 21, 2019, 09:15:44 PM
I had thought he would be the defensive point guard that Rowsey wasn't. The one asset MU was missing, a tall defensive guard, not two midgets.
Didn't he like lead country or conference in steals? How did he do that as a backup at Fordham? I must be missing something here.
I have much more confidence in McEwen next year over what Joe was.
Back up for us, not Fordham
Great post, Tower. The past 3 weeks have served as a crushing end to a season that held so much promise. That doesn't erase what this team accomplished:
• Winning 24 games for the first time since 2013
• Finishing a game away from winning the Big East title
• Earning a 2nd NCAA bid in the past 3 seasons
• Beating 4 teams ranked in KenPom's Top 25 and 7 NCAA teams
But it doesn't mean I have zero concerns, either.
First and foremost is Markus. During the last 7 games, he shot 47-133 (35.3%) overall and 21-71 (29.6%) from beyond the arc. Per KenPom, his offensive rating for those games was 94 (Villanova), 106 (Creighton), 59 (Seton Hall), 95 (Georgetown), 123 (St. John's), 88 (Seton Hall) and 97 (Murray State). In other words, every game but one was well below his season average of 110.7.
That's simply not the same player. And you're not going to win many games when the player who far and away leads your team in usage (ranking 5th in the country) experiences such a dramatic drop in offensive efficiency.
Whatever the cause, I hope he gets his mojo back this offseason. Because as Markus goes, so goes Marquette.
This is a good post and a good thread. The only think I disagree with is putting missing Elliot at #1 - I agree that was a factor, but I don't think he would have been a savior. That said, maybe we would have done enough for us to win one more BE game and one NCAA game.
After sleeping on it i'm still pretty convinced Wojo isn't the answer. Frankly, he doesn't deserve another year, but the team he's put together does. I'm excited enough by its potential. Let's see if they catch lighting in a bottle next year, but like others have said, if we don't have an NCAA win by the end of March 2020 he should be gone.
Crean caught lightning in a bottle with Wade. A great run. His other 8 seasons produced 1 NCAA tourney win. He put out competitive teams that provided some wonderful moments, but he never made a team more that the sum of its parts. He went to the NCAA 5 times in 9 years, NIT 3, nothing 1. You still don't see the Wojo comparison? Odd.
Deane was a defensive coach who didn't recruit scorers and at the end had only recruited Krunti Hester. He succeeded primarily with KO's players. I see no comparison there.
Morrow played extended minutes at Seton Hall after Theo was ejected. He became less of a factor in each passing minute. His best role is as a back up 5 providing energy.
In October, we thought that MU was going to have Greg and Chartouny as additional guards. So many had clamored for Greg to get more minutes as a freshman at the expense of either Rowsey or Markus. He was a year stronger, healthy, and according to Wojo, was playing well enough in practice to start. Chartouny was seen as a 6'3 PG who played great defense, held onto the ball. What a great complementary pair to Markus! Oops.
Quote from: 1SE on March 22, 2019, 02:30:01 AM
This is a good post and a good thread. The only think I disagree with is putting missing Elliot at #1 - I agree that was a factor, but I don't think he would have been a savior. That said, maybe we would have done enough for us to win one more BE game and one NCAA game.
After sleeping on it i'm still pretty convinced Wojo isn't the answer. Frankly, he doesn't deserve another year, but the team he's put together does. I'm excited enough by its potential. Let's see if they catch lighting in a bottle next year, but like others have said, if we don't have an NCAA win by the end of March 2020 he should be gone.
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I am just as disappointed in Wojo as you are, but let's wait and see what recruiting class he brings in 2020.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on March 21, 2019, 09:01:10 PM
What were expectations for Chartouny? He was the third leading scorer on a garbage Fordham team and wasn't even all A-10. He was a back-up and little more. Even Cremo, who everyone was made we lost, only averaged 4.3 a game for Nova after averaging 17 at Albany. I feel many put far too much hope in graduate transfers.
One of my expectations for Chartouney that wasn't met was that as a PG he could run from here to there and dribble at the same time without turning the ball over.
Quote from: Marcus92 on March 22, 2019, 02:11:02 AM
First and foremost is Markus. During the last 7 games, he shot 47-133 (35.3%) overall and 21-71 (29.6%) from beyond the arc. Per KenPom, his offensive rating for those games was 94 (Villanova), 106 (Creighton), 59 (Seton Hall), 95 (Georgetown), 123 (St. John's), 88 (Seton Hall) and 97 (Murray State). In other words, every game but one was well below his season average of 110.7.
That's simply not the same player. And you're not going to win many games when the player who far and away leads your team in usage (ranking 5th in the country) experiences such a dramatic drop in offensive efficiency.
This 1000x. All of our struggles in the last seven games come back to one person: Markus Howard. I don't know if he was injured or just got himself into a deep shooting slump, but the offensive collapse from MH killed us down the stretch.
Look at yesterday's game: in the second half, when Murray opened their big lead, it was because they were able to get out in transition, because we were missing so many shots. Once Murray gets on the break, even Duke isn't stopping them. The #1 culprit? Markus.
I'd love to see our defensive stats for the last 7 games, because I think they'd be pretty good, with the possible exceptions of Georgetown (Akinjo couldn't miss) and Murray St (bad defense was the result of bad offense).
Quote from: Herman Cain on March 21, 2019, 09:40:36 PM
Wojo's closest comp is Mike Deane.
Results wise that may be true, but coaching wise they are polar opposites. One could coach but did not recruit, one can recruit but has more trouble coaching.
I think the current coach has been here long enough that he should decide on how he wants to play and start recruiting to fit that style. While he brings in good players, we need more complementary skill sets.
I'll put a little twist on this. Based on the full collapse in '18-'19, Wojo will be under pressure to accomplish TWO things next year. First, by November he MUST sign a top end recruiting class for '20. Unfortunately, I personally think that that job got somewhat tougher as his performance over the last month calls much into question. Second, as was said in another thread, he's got 365 days to win an NCAA game.
I don't know if the administration moves on immediately should he fail to achieve both objectives, but many fans will. The '5-6 years to judge' mantra will fully kick in and folks will respond with apathy. I for one am not down for another mediocre season (call that a 3rd or 4th place finish and an immediate NCAA exit) followed by a 'rebuilding period' because we're 'so young and inexperienced'. 'It's hard to get to the NCAA, you know.' ::)
BTW, for the record, me comparing Wojo to Crean is not a compliment. I thought Crean had plateaued at MU and I was tired of clapping as an in-game adjustment. I have not yet given up on Wojo, however.
1. I've been following MU since 1998. Turning at 24-4 season into a 24-10 season with absolutely nothing to show for it is a new way to kick MU fans in the nuts. Didn't see that coming. Will be on guard for it from here on out.
2. We don't even have mid-major level athleticism. That won't change next year.
3. Why do people think Greg Elliott was what we were missing or will be the difference next year? At no point last year did he show anything that made me think that. He's not a PG. In fact, I thought Jamal was going to be the more impactful player and we see how that turned out. Greg is Sacar 2.0...do we need two of those?
4. The contrast between Markus and Ja was stunning. Morant's ability to take on 3 or 4 players and fire on time, on target passes to his wide open teammates was incredible. Markus can't do that against 1 good defender. Markus is what he is at this point, the die is cast. He's a gunner with tunnel vision. How many times this year has Markus gotten the D to collapse and Sam is wide open and Markus simply doesn't see him, refuses to pass or turns it over? Sam has got to be frustrated with that.
5. I've been pretty neutral on Wojo. He'll be back next year and I think he should be to see out Markus and Sam's senior year. He's got to win something next year, right?
Quote from: TFlegend on March 22, 2019, 07:43:50 AM
1. I've been following MU since 1998. Turning at 24-4 season into a 24-10 season with absolutely nothing to show for it is a new way to kick MU fans in the nuts. Didn't see that coming. Will be on guard for it from here on out.
2. We don't even have mid-major level athleticism. That won't change next year.
3. Why do people think Greg Elliott was what we were missing or will be the difference next year? At no point last year did he show anything that made me think that. He's not a PG. In fact, I thought Jamal was going to be the more impactful player and we see how that turned out. Greg is Sacar 2.0...do we need two of those?
4. The contrast between Markus and Ja was stunning. Morant's ability to take on 3 or 4 players and fire on time, on target passes to his wide open teammates was incredible. Markus can't do that against 1 good defender. Markus is what he is at this point, the die is cast. He's a gunner with tunnel vision. How many times this year has Markus gotten the D to collapse and Sam is wide open and Markus simply doesn't see him, refuses to pass or turns it over? Sam has got to be frustrated with that.
5. I've been pretty neutral on Wojo. He'll be back next year and I think he should be to see out Markus and Sam's senior year. He's got to win something next year, right?
On point 3, if you though Cain was better than Greg last season that was just bad judgement on your part. I am also skeptical on Greg being a PG but we don't really know since he was playing one handed as a freshman. What he would have added is another lockdown defender on the perimeter and would have been someone who can get to the rim. The lack of players who can get to the rim is where I really see us hurting.
I think Wojo gets two years minimum. For some Marquette fans, it will be a long two years.
This year ended on a down note, but the season on the whole was a success. I thought this team hit their ceiling. Heck, at the start of the season I thought a 6 seed was a best case scenario. Some will say my expectations need to be higher but I try to look at Marquette objectively.
My objective view saw plenty of flaws. I'm actually surprised the team accomplished all they did. Plenty of obstacles to overcome, too. Elliott's injury, Chartouny not panning out, Cain taking a step back instead of a step forward, Bailey being rusty, Morrow being more limited on offense than I thought he would be, and half the roster rehabbing in the off season.
Only blown out 3 times. Unfortunately yesterday was one of them, but it was huge progress to only lose 3 games by double figures. 16 wins by double figures. 8-6 in games decided by single digits; wins were clumped early and the losses late.
Heavy minutes for Howard, Anim, and the Hausers lead to those early wins but they got worn out. That lead to fading down the stretch. Felt a lot like a Crean season.
Take another step next year. I am looking forward to a better season. Compete for the conference title and Sweet 16 potential. Anything more than that, I'll have to wait and see.
I think the answers to my question have been spread out over various threads. And the answer is not "Wojo sucks."
What are the specific differences between the end-of-season swoon and the rest of the season? What changed, what specifically was the team doing different and what specifically were teams doing different against us? Who played differently and how and what reason were they playing different? Etc.?
Thoughts?
Wojo was asked basically that same question -- "If you look at the end of the season and losing 6 of 7, what could you point to that went wrong for you?" -- during the post-game press conference.
"I don't know if we can point to any one thing. Certainly we didn't play as well at the end of the season as we did for most of it. So we've got to really examine that and figure out why. And I don't think when we figure out why, it's going to be one thing. It's going to be a culmination of things."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4bHpV5iqEk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4bHpV5iqEk)
(The above question and answer starts at the 32:00 mark)
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 22, 2019, 06:15:24 AM
One of my expectations for Chartouney that wasn't met was that as a PG he could run from here to there and dribble at the same time without turning the ball over.
See? Some people expect EVERYTHING!
Quote from: TFlegend on March 22, 2019, 07:43:50 AM
1. I've been following MU since 1998. Turning at 24-4 season into a 24-10 season with absolutely nothing to show for it is a new way to kick MU fans in the nuts. Didn't see that coming. Will be on guard for it from here on out.
2. We don't even have mid-major level athleticism. That won't change next year.
3. Why do people think Greg Elliott was what we were missing or will be the difference next year? At no point last year did he show anything that made me think that. He's not a PG. In fact, I thought Jamal was going to be the more impactful player and we see how that turned out. Greg is Sacar 2.0...do we need two of those?
4. The contrast between Markus and Ja was stunning. Morant's ability to take on 3 or 4 players and fire on time, on target passes to his wide open teammates was incredible. Markus can't do that against 1 good defender. Markus is what he is at this point, the die is cast. He's a gunner with tunnel vision. How many times this year has Markus gotten the D to collapse and Sam is wide open and Markus simply doesn't see him, refuses to pass or turns it over? Sam has got to be frustrated with that.
5. I've been pretty neutral on Wojo. He'll be back next year and I think he should be to see out Markus and Sam's senior year. He's got to win something next year, right?
1. Agree
2. Agree
3. I think Greg is a little better than you're giving him credit for, but he's nowhere near as good as some people here are saying he is. He's a role player.
4. This is my biggest agreement. He misses so many wide open guys it's unbelievable.
5. Agree.
Quote from: tower912 on March 22, 2019, 07:37:57 AM
BTW, for the record, me comparing Wojo to Crean is not a compliment. I thought Crean had plateaued at MU and I was tired of clapping as an in-game adjustment. I have not yet given up on Wojo, however.
That Stanford game in Anaheim was heartbreak hotel for TC.
Quote from: Herman Cain on March 21, 2019, 09:40:36 PM
Wojo's closest comp is Mike Deane.
Yeah, well, other than:
* Deane was handed a pretty solid roster of recruits while Wojo's was left very little
* Deane was a pretty good X's and O's coach, particularly defensively while Wojo gets about a C right now IMO
* Deane hated recruiting and was a pretty terrible recruiter as a result while so far recruiting has been Wojo's strength
* Deane felt an occasional NCAA berth was good enough and Marquette's ceiling while Wojo wants to be elite
* Deane's teams got progressively worse throughout his tenure as his lackluster recruiting began to show up while Wojo's teams have pretty consistently improved throughout his 5 years
...other than that, you're spot on.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 21, 2019, 09:56:20 PM
We beat the 4,5 and 7 a loooong time ago. The last THREE times we played the 6 and 10 we lost. We were finished a month ago. Every potential 12, 11 and 10 were praying to get us. Didn't matter who, we were going down. This match up, crapshoot stuff is weak sauce excuse making. #bullshyte #slurper
Uhm, we beat an 11 last week by 30 points so yeah....there's that.
Quote from: 79Warrior on March 22, 2019, 12:15:23 PM
That Stanford game in Anaheim was heartbreak hotel for TC.
We would have been blitzed the next week just as Stanford was by Texas, but yes that game stung. When they kicked their coach out the refs decided to even it up from there. Jerel still had 16 footer to win the game, but not to be.
Quote from: Mike Deane's Seat Belt on March 21, 2019, 09:02:56 PM
As remarkable as the 23-4 record was so is the record that closed out the season. Completely erased anything positive that was built prior to the collapse.
And mu is treading water as a program another season
Three straight post season bids, our best finish in the Big East in 6 years by FAR and almost everyone coming back next year and we are "treading water". ::)
At the end of last there was real concern about replacing AR. I thought we would have a very low ceiling if we had to rely on Markus all year at pg. We signed Chartouny and i felt we had found the missing piece.
By Dec it appeared Chartouny was a bust and Greg was done for the year. BUT it Markus was playing so well that we'd be ok. I believe it was our weakness at guuard particularly PG that was exposed at the end of the year. College basketball is a guards game and we effectively had 2 Markus and Secar.
Im not a coach but I've talked to former players who say Wojo's flow offense depends on the players improvising off a few basic sets. Players love it. BUT i fear that when you've got a single PG who is calling his own number most of the time that kind of offense can lead to poor team execution and lots of one on one. Sound like the last few weeks? Since the team doesn't have a lot of plays Wojo can call im not sure how much he can do from the bench. Im not giving him a pass. Its his system and if it doesn't work well with his personnel that is ultimately on Wojo.
Im very concerned Wojo may not be able to succeed here. Can the Duke system work without Duke talent.?
Im willing to give him one more year with a different PG and more depth in general at guard. But thats it. If next yeara team doesn't accomplish some meaningful goals its probably time to go a different direction.
Tower, I think you pretty much nailed it, i.e. summarized the year.. A few minor disagreements on this current analysis and a few, very few throughout the year...I like reading your post game's.
I will try to move on to next year and try to be an optimist.
Ohh by the way... sometimes intelligence is confused with arrogance.
Quote from: Cheeks on March 21, 2019, 09:05:41 PM
Disappointing finish, but about where I thought they would be.
Top 3 Big East, some big wins, some not so great losses, NCAA bid, and then the crapshoot based on who we get. We beat a 4, 5, 6, 7, 10 seeded teams in this tournament during the regular season. Who you play matters. Plenty of teams we could have played and beat, but not that type of team.
Crapshoot
You keep on rolling out that crapshoot excuse. What about the meltdown prior to the crapshoot?Was that a crapshoot also. The time for excuse making is over. 5 years is plenty of time to figure it out. Wojo is mediocre
Tower - thanks for this analysis, and thank you very much for all of your post game commentaries. They really add to the MU BB experience. :)
It is gratifying to be appreciated.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 23, 2019, 06:35:25 PM
You keep on rolling out that crapshoot excuse. What about the meltdown prior to the crapshoot?Was that a crapshoot also. The time for excuse making is over. 5 years is plenty of time to figure it out. Wojo is mediocre
I'll rely on #1 seed Gonzaga's head coach, Mark Few, and what he says about the NCAA tournament being a crapshoot. Or any number of 100's of others from coaches, people covering college basketball for decades, etc.
That's fine, maybe Wojo is mediocre. WHO ARE WE HIRING TO REPLACE HIM? WHO? We only get assistants, so who are we hiring? Please, give me some names rather than your bitching all the time....we get it...you haven't liked Wojo, you didn't like Crean, I can go through your posts and at least half the time you hated Buzz. So who do you want?
Quote from: AZWarrior on March 23, 2019, 07:00:45 PM
Tower - thanks for this analysis, and thank you very much for all of your post game commentaries. They really add to the MU BB experience. :)
After every game my first thing to look for is the tower analysis