It opens at MU -2.5, I'd be shocked if it isn't close to a pick em by tip. Getting the Johnnie's at +2.5 feels like free money (hope I'm wrong).
If you play man all game, MU will lose again, do not have enough team quickness to guard them, have to try something different, much like St. John's played DePaul and played a different D on DePaul, basically only guarded 4 of DePaul players and let there point shoot the ball which they could not and lost, lots of double teams.
Cain has to play as well, put Joey on Clark and guard him tight, does not drive. Play small or get the ball inside to Theo or Morrow and dominate the inside, can Howard play team ball?
Quote from: BCHoopster on March 14, 2019, 01:46:39 AM
can Howard play team ball?
I think Marcus has proved this all year when the team as a whole has played well. When we fall behind is when Marcus seems to think he has to play hero ball and single handedly bring us back. That's when he seems to tense up and looks like hes being selfish.
A few ill timed shots in the course of a game is just a scorer being a scorer, they think they can make everything.
Quote from: BCHoopster on March 14, 2019, 01:46:39 AM
Cain has to play as well, put Joey on Clark and guard him tight, does not drive. Play small or get the ball inside to Theo or Morrow and dominate the inside, can Howard play team ball?
Neither Ed nor Theo have dominated inside all year. I certainly am not expecting that to change tonight.
Quote from: BCHoopster on March 14, 2019, 01:46:39 AM
Cain has to play as well, put Joey on Clark and guard him tight, does not drive. Play small or get the ball inside to Theo or Morrow and dominate the inside, can Howard play team ball?
They've beat us twice and we've lost four straight. Wojo sure as hell better have some new wrinkles planned
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 14, 2019, 06:55:43 AM
They've beat us twice and we've lost four straight. Wojo sure as hell better have some new wrinkles planned
Or what?
Quote from: We R Final Four on March 14, 2019, 05:30:53 AM
Neither Ed nor Theo have dominated inside all year. I certainly am not expecting that to change tonight.
IMO, this is why we have trouble with SJU. Other teams make them pay for their lack of size inside to help offset their speed. We don't do that.
We gonna finda out reel fast watt Wojo's coachin' fabric consists of, aina?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 14, 2019, 07:22:09 AM
We gonna finda out reel fast watt Wojo's coachin' fabric consists of, aina?
I have been saying this for the last 4 games all with disappointment. I understand that St. Johns is just mismatch for us but seriously if MU cannot beat St. Johns after finishing a game 20 hours before the tip of todays game then I truly have no faith in Wojo. Lets not pretend that St. Johns is Duke or North Carolina. This St. Johns team was 8-10 in a very weak Big East and lost to Depaul 2x. Had St. Johns lost yesterday they would have been in the NIT.
Today marks the start of a new season. Whether or not the team we want to show up actually does it so be seen.
The last time we played them, despite shooting like shyte, we lost by 1.
Don't have to reinvent the wheel. Just have to use it better.
Oh, and the last time we just let a player who "can't shoot" shoot, it was Jermaine Samuels. He had been scoreless the previous three games, was averaging 4 points on the season, and was a career sub-30% shooter from 3. It was a perfectly sound strategy. Of course, Samuels scored 29. That, and turnovers, resulted in the loss at Nova that kept us from wrapping up the BEast three weeks ago.
I actually am a big fan of leaving the non-shooter open, but that's a perfect illustration of how it doesn't always work very well. I'm also a fan of mixing in a little zone, but the Johnnies have six players shooting 34% or better from 3.
We lost the last time by 1. We only had 9 turnovers. We outrebounded them. Nobody fouled out. If we play similarly but shoot to our averages, we win, probably by double-digits. Heck, even if only the Hausers (who were 3-for-14 from 3) shoot to their averages, we win.
Or we can dramatically change everything we did to get us to 23-4 -- which also happened to get us leads with a few minutes to go in each of the last 4 games.
Reinvent the wheel? No. Make adjustments? Absolutely. Ponds had his way when it mattered both times and we couldn't stop him. We're also coming off four straight losses where the wheel that won us a bunch of games wasn't effective. Agree with Doc. This will be a huge test for Wojo's coaching chops
Quote from: HowardsWorld on March 14, 2019, 07:39:14 AM
I have been saying this for the last 4 games all with disappointment. I understand that St. Johns is just mismatch for us but seriously if MU cannot beat St. Johns after finishing a game 20 hours before the tip of todays game then I truly have no faith in Wojo. Lets not pretend that St. Johns is Duke or North Carolina. This St. Johns team was 8-10 in a very weak Big East and lost to Depaul 2x. Had St. Johns lost yesterday they would have been in the NIT.
Today marks the start of a new season. Whether or not the team we want to show up actually does it so be seen.
You think 18-22 year olds can't turn around and play well 20 hours after playing a basketball game?
If Wojo doesn't change some things tonight...then he's flat out an idiot that doesn't know how to Coach. Let's see some trapping of Ponds(particularly with Bailey in there), let's see some full court pressure(doesn't have to be balls to the wall, but enough to make them not get in their sets when they want), let's see some zone(NOT saying all game long). And for cripes sakes GO INSIDE EVERY possession. Particularly with Sam and Joey post ups, but dump downs to Theo and Ed will work too. They have NO size.
Quote from: wadesworld on March 14, 2019, 07:54:55 AM
You think 18-22 year olds can't turn around and play well 20 hours after playing a basketball game?
OK then tell me if tonight MU doesn't have the advantage of rest of St. Johns then when exactly is MU going to beat them?
Quote from: HowardsWorld on March 14, 2019, 07:57:15 AM
OK then tell me if tonight MU doesn't have the advantage of rest of St. Johns then when exactly is MU going to beat them?
I'll go out on a limb and say we'll either beat them tonight or we won't beat them this season.
Playing a second game in a second night isn't hard.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 14, 2019, 07:22:09 AM
We gonna finda out reel fast watt Wojo's coachin' fabric consists of, aina?
Wojo is the man. Forget about the last 4 games, a new season starts now. Mullen and the Johnnies cannot hold a candle to Wojo and the lads. remember, you heard it on scoop.
Quote from: HowardsWorld on March 14, 2019, 07:39:14 AM
I have been saying this for the last 4 games all with disappointment. I understand that St. Johns is just mismatch for us but seriously if MU cannot beat St. Johns after finishing a game 20 hours before the tip of todays game then I truly have no faith in Wojo. Lets not pretend that St. Johns is Duke or North Carolina. This St. Johns team was 8-10 in a very weak Big East and lost to Depaul 2x. Had St. Johns lost yesterday they would have been in the NIT.
Today marks the start of a new season. Whether or not the team we want to show up actually does it so be seen.
Think the Johnnies also lost to Duke by about 30. We got this, because we have a Duke coach, who is the man.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 14, 2019, 08:02:47 AM
Wojo is the man. Forget about the last 4 games, a new season starts now. Mullen and the Johnnies cannot hold a candle to Wojo and the lads. remember, you heard it on scoop.
Mazos Burgers should definitely make a Snickers style commercial out of wee wittle willie's posting habits on Scoop. Maybe eating something called the W burger. Show Marquette losing a close game on his TV, cut to wee wittle willie hammering a laptop's keyboard with MUScoop up on a screen, have wee wittle willie's mom calling from upstairs, "wee wittle willie, we can hear you striking those keyboard keys again! Eat your Mazos burger!" Cut to wee wittle willie leaning back taking a big old bite out of his Mazos burger and Marquette closing out a win on the television screen in front of him, wee wittle willie closing the laptop and relaxing.
Quote from: muguru on March 14, 2019, 07:56:44 AM
If Wojo doesn't change some things tonight...then he's flat out an idiot that doesn't know how to Coach. Let's see some trapping of Ponds(particularly with Bailey in there), let's see some full court pressure(doesn't have to be balls to the wall, but enough to make them not get in their sets when they want), let's see some zone(NOT saying all game long). And for cripes sakes GO INSIDE EVERY possession. Particularly with Sam and Joey post ups, but dump downs to Theo and Ed will work too. They have NO size.
Histrionics about Wojo's coaching ability aside, yes, we should get the ball more to Sam and Joey pretty much every game. Sam is especially effective just rising up over his defender. Joey tends to make it more complicated than it is, attempting every post move in the book -- just rise and shoot, young man. I will say that if Joey isn't scoring or doing something else to positively impact the offense, he probably can't play much in this game because he has trouble defending any Johnnie.
And sure, a little trapping or a little zone would be worth a try. But again, we lost to them by 1 on a night we shot like shyte.
Quote from: muguru on March 14, 2019, 07:56:44 AM
If Wojo doesn't WIN change some things tonight...then he's flat out an idiot that doesn't know how to Coach. Let's see some trapping of Ponds(particularly with Bailey in there), let's see some full court pressure(doesn't have to be balls to the wall, but enough to make them not get in their sets when they want), let's see some zone(NOT saying all game long). And for cripes sakes GO INSIDE EVERY possession. Particularly with Sam and Joey post ups, but dump downs to Theo and Ed will work too. They have NO size.
FIFY. I know this is what you actually meant.
Wojo tried a bunch of adjustments during the 4 game losing streak (and in the second game against St. John's). We still lost. We ignore those and claim that he didn't make any adjustments because that's easier to blame than "we played like crap" or "the other team played really good." And let's be honest, Wojo could make all the adjustments you suggest....but if we lost, you would still think he was an idiot who couldn't coach. So let's cut out the noise and get to the heart of it. If we lose, he can't coach, if we win, maybe he can coach but he still has to make up for the unacceptable losses.
Quote from: wadesworld on March 14, 2019, 08:09:28 AM
Mazos Burgers should definitely make a Snickers style commercial out of wee wittle willie's posting habits on Scoop. Maybe eating something called the W burger. Show Marquette losing a close game on his TV, cut to wee wittle willie hammering a laptop's keyboard with MUScoop up on a screen, have wee wittle willie's mom calling from upstairs, "wee wittle willie, we can hear you striking those keyboard keys again! Eat your Mazos burger!" Cut to wee wittle willie leaning back taking a big old bite out of his Mazos burger and Marquette closing out a win on the television screen in front of him, wee wittle willie closing the laptop and relaxing.
That's our joyless willie! Hasn't enjoyed a Marquette game since March 28, 1977.
Quote from: HowardsWorld on March 14, 2019, 07:57:15 AM
OK then tell me if tonight MU doesn't have the advantage of rest of St. Johns then when exactly is MU going to beat them?
I think whatever points you take away from them being tired you give back to them for having played a game and being used to the environment, etc with more recent playing time. These are young kids in great shape, I do not think fatigue will be much of a factor tonight.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 14, 2019, 07:16:52 AM
IMO, this is why we have trouble with SJU. Other teams make them pay for their lack of size inside to help offset their speed. We don't do that.
Theo is futile offensively, cannot score n cannot make FTs, and cannot guard any SJU players. If it was me we would play Ed or Joey at the 5 tonight, bring in Theo for spot minutes or when Keita is in the game.
Quote from: BCHoopster on March 14, 2019, 01:41:56 AM
If you play man all game, MU will lose again, do not have enough team quickness to guard them, have to try something different, much like St. John's played DePaul and played a different D on DePaul, basically only guarded 4 of DePaul players and let there point shoot the ball which they could not and lost, lots of double teams.
Haven't seen a team sag so far off a guard since the D Wilson days. That was something. St. John"s defenders were below the free throw line on Gage when he brought the ball up. Bizarre to see, especially when so used to seeing our guys picked up well past the three point line. St. John's was totally freed up to double Strus constantly and never let him get going. Pretty impressive St. John's had all five starters in double figures last night.
St. John's launched a lot of bricks last night, but certainly also displayed the athleticism that gives us fits at times. I really think we need to control tempo and beat pressure with passing rather than dribbling. Live ball turnovers leading to run outs can't happen with regularity. Shooting decent and controlling the live ball tos are the two keys to a W in this one.
I will preface this comment by saying I know tonight is the most important game of the season and the only one that matters right now...but I think I will feel more confident if we can get to the semis than I do going into this one. Hard not to be shaken by the 4 losses and playing the only team that beat us twice at their home. Hopefully the team doesn't feel that way and comes out ticked off and hungry.
My unease aside, after the loss at home to St. John's I remember thinking I wouldn't mind seeing them again-we'd have a hard time shooting that poorly again. We shall see. Want this W so bad to regain the good feelings through most of the season. Let's go!! Have to avoid the slow start tonight from a confidence and crowd standpoint!
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 14, 2019, 08:53:46 AM
Theo is futile offensively, cannot score n cannot make FTs, and cannot guard any SJU players. If it was me we would play Ed or Joey at the 5 tonight, bring in Theo for spot minutes or when Keita is in the game.
I see SJU turning this into a turnover fest. They are just too quick for us.
It has moved to -4 where I'm looking.
Spread is ballooning.
Sharps all over the team that's lost 4 in a row playing a virtual road game??
I just pounded that SJU ML. Hoping for a loser.
Quote from: wadesworld on March 14, 2019, 08:09:28 AM
Mazos Burgers should definitely make a Snickers style commercial out of wee wittle willie's posting habits on Scoop. Maybe eating something called the W burger. Show Marquette losing a close game on his TV, cut to wee wittle willie hammering a laptop's keyboard with MUScoop up on a screen, have wee wittle willie's mom calling from upstairs, "wee wittle willie, we can hear you striking those keyboard keys again! Eat your Mazos burger!" Cut to wee wittle willie leaning back taking a big old bite out of his Mazos burger and Marquette closing out a win on the television screen in front of him, wee wittle willie closing the laptop and relaxing.
wadesworld whining woutinely whenever willie weighs in on wojo. Wadesworld woefully wong on widentity of Wazowurger.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on March 14, 2019, 10:19:07 AM
Spread is ballooning.
Sharps all over the team that's lost 4 in a row playing a virtual road game??
I just pounded that SJU ML. Hoping for a loser.
ive never understood mu fans betting on mu games. there are a group of maybe 6 guys that sit right around where i do at the fiserv that are loud as can be and for 95% of the game theyre talking about what they need to hit their bet related to the game. mu goes to the line and while everyone else is quieting down theyre yelling "come on joey! i took the over!" sadly theyre so loud the players actually probably hear that at the line. nobody gives a flying eff that you bet $10 on the over and are living and dying by that. if youre attending a game and you cant control your wild cheering for your own bet dont bet on the game. it makes it impossible to enjoy simply sitting and enjoying the game.
they also love to talk about their personal plus minus (if a couple of them go to the bathroom and mu goes on a run, the other 4 yell at them to leave for the next 10 minutes of game time). so very obnoxious.
Quote from: WithoutBias on March 14, 2019, 10:30:11 AM
ive never understood mu fans betting on mu games. there are a group of maybe 6 guys that sit right around where i do at the fiserv that are loud as can be and for 95% of the game theyre talking about what they need to hit their bet related to the game. mu goes to the line and while everyone else is quieting down theyre yelling "come on joey! i took the over!" sadly theyre so loud the players actually probably hear that at the line. nobody gives a flying eff that you bet $10 on the over and are living and dying by that. if youre attending a game and you cant control your wild cheering for your own bet dont bet on the game. it makes it impossible to enjoy simply sitting and enjoying the game.
they also love to talk about their personal plus minus (if a couple of them go to the bathroom and mu goes on a run, the other 4 yell at them to leave for the next 10 minutes of game time). so very obnoxious.
Ha I bet on the opponent of big games or great ML value.
That way if we lose I at least get something for it.
I don't even bet on my teams. Winning is enough for me.
And yeah, I never bet on sh it like those guys.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 14, 2019, 08:53:46 AM
Theo is futile offensively, cannot score n cannot make FTs, and cannot guard any SJU players. If it was me we would play Ed or Joey at the 5 tonight, bring in Theo for spot minutes or when Keita is in the game.
Theo and Ed stepped up in the second half of game 2 against St John's.
Played key roles in overcoming the 13 point Johnnies lead. They combined for 12 points and 10 rebounds in the second half.
Chartouny also has played fairly well in the previous games.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 14, 2019, 10:24:00 AM
wadesworld whining woutinely whenever willie weighs in on wojo. Wadesworld woefully wong on widentity of Wazowurger.
Willie wupping wiz wame
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 14, 2019, 08:32:35 AM
FIFY. I know this is what you actually meant.
Wojo tried a bunch of adjustments during the 4 game losing streak (and in the second game against St. John's). We still lost. We ignore those and claim that he didn't make any adjustments because that's easier to blame than "we played like crap" or "the other team played really good." And let's be honest, Wojo could make all the adjustments you suggest....but if we lost, you would still think he was an idiot who couldn't coach. So let's cut out the noise and get to the heart of it. If we lose, he can't coach, if we win, maybe he can coach but he still has to make up for the unacceptable losses.
Hyperbole much?? Where have been the changes I suggest?? He's not trying different things...he's "tweaking" things here and there. Throw different looks at them...who has seen zone from MU this year?? Or trapping?? Or a little full court pressure. It's the un scouted looks that make a difference, especially when you are playing someone for the third time. As much of this falls on the guys for not executing...but there are things Wojo can do beyond certain little "tweaks" to try to help them be in a better position.
For example..last week against Georgetown, where were the traps?? I don't think it's rocket science to figure out that "Hey...these guards are both Freshman, on the road in a hostile environment"...let's see how they handle trapping?? I can guarantee you there would have been turnovers...that's what freshman do. Use it 3-4 possessions(or more), they turn it over twice..that's two extra possessions..when you are going through a slump like they have been, extra possessions can be all the difference in the world...Force the action some.
Look what SJU did last night defending DePaul..They hadn't seen that yet...and guess what?? they didn't handle it well and it worked. It was actually a RADICAL change, playing off someone that much...it allowed them to never let Strus get going. Huh, imagine that, different things do work. Who knew??
Quote from: HowardsWorld on March 14, 2019, 07:02:01 AM
Or he will be shown the door.
Shown the door, like "hey coach, this is a door, just wanted to show you that." Because he's not getting fired coming off at worst a 2nd place league finish & top-6 seed in the tournament.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 14, 2019, 11:53:06 AM
Shown the door, like "hey coach, this is a door, just wanted to show you that." Because he's not getting fired coming off at worst a 2nd place league finish & top-6 seed in the tournament.
I'd say only because the expectations for the program by the higher ups are substantially lower now then they once were. In all honesty, at a place like MU, should a 2nd place conference finish and a top 6 seed be acceptable as the best you have done in 5 years??
Quote from: muguru on March 14, 2019, 12:30:33 PM
I'd say only because the expectations for the program by the higher ups are substantially lower now then they once were. In all honesty, at a place like MU, should a 2nd place conference finish and a top 6 seed be acceptable as the best you have done in 5 years??
It took 5 years to get here. Forget the past, the future is bright. The next 5 years will be better.
Quote from: muguru on March 14, 2019, 12:30:33 PM
I'd say only because the expectations for the program by the higher ups are substantially lower now then they once were. In all honesty, at a place like MU, should a 2nd place conference finish and a top 6 seed be acceptable as the best you have done in 5 years??
Unfortunately I think the answer to this is yes. In order for a 2nd place conf. finish and at least a 6 seed to be considered the floor moving forward, I posit that we would need to have at least 3 more consecutive years of performing at least as well as we did this season. Wish it weren't so but it is. As one poster said on here a few weeks ago when we lost to STJ or Creighton, this is exactly the type of loss that would move us down a seed line, but would have no impact on a Kentucky or Michigan St. or Villanova and their ilk. Well, we're not them, at least not yet, and it takes a lot more than one successful season build up that benefit of the doubt equity.
Quote from: muguru on March 14, 2019, 12:30:33 PM
I'd say only because the expectations for the program by the higher ups are substantially lower now then they once were. In all honesty, at a place like MU, should a 2nd place conference finish and a top 6 seed be acceptable as the best you have done in 5 years??
Are they substantially lower than they once were? I get the impression that a 2nd place conference finish, a six seed, and a clean program is just fine by Marquette administrations going back 40 years.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 14, 2019, 02:01:43 PM
Are they substantially lower than they once were? I get the impression that a 2nd place conference finish, a six seed, and a clean program is just fine by Marquette administrations going back 40 years.
And that my friend is the entire issue...it obviously IS acceptable because Wojo will keep his job. And if the same thing happens the next few years, he will continue to Coach the team..but should he?? A program that was once going to Elite 8's and Sweet 16's fairly regularly only 7 years ago..To me this should be the floor going forward, not the ceiling.
Quote from: muguru on March 14, 2019, 02:21:45 PM
And that my friend is the entire issue...it obviously IS acceptable because Wojo will keep his job. And if the same thing happens the next few years, he will continue to Coach the team..but should he?? A program that was once going to Elite 8's and Sweet 16's fairly regularly only 7 years ago..To me this should be the floor going forward, not the ceiling.
It would be fine by me if that's the "average" season. Sometimes do better. Sometimes do worse. Keep it clean.
5dimes has it at -4.5
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 14, 2019, 06:55:43 AM
They've beat us twice and we've lost four straight. Wojo sure as hell better have some new wrinkles planned
Yep, Better to be Better.
Like your style, Sir Lawrence.
Oh, thought you were going 5dimes at -4.5
Quote from: muguru on March 14, 2019, 02:21:45 PM
And that my friend is the entire issue...it obviously IS acceptable because Wojo will keep his job. And if the same thing happens the next few years, he will continue to Coach the team..but should he?? A program that was once going to Elite 8's and Sweet 16's fairly regularly only 7 years ago..To me this should be the floor going forward, not the ceiling.
Let's hope so!
Sweet 16s and Elite 8s has never been the floor......at least since Al left.
Buzz had a great run of sweet 16 sweet 16. And elite 8......then he missed the tournament when he was picked to win the league and bailed. Guess sweet 16 wasn't the floor after all.
Tell me how many programs have a floor of sweet 16 and Elite 8s? Floor meaning it happens every year......since that is the definition of the floor......the lowest possible outcome.
I'll wait
Some fans never disappoint in their inability to enjoy college sports for what they are.
If you haven't enjoyed this season.......no matter how it ends from here......then you have a problem that has nothing to do with the MU administration or Wojo.
I hope we win tonight......I hope we win a game or 2 in the tournament.......if it doesn't happen I'll still have enjoyed watching a bunch of good kids win 23 games and have some incredible moments.
Only 1 team wins their last game(not counting the NIT)........the whining from our fan base is embarrassing ......go 3 months and only lose a couple of games.... everybody is on top of the world.......hit a rough patch and the true colors show.......easy being a fan when you win every winnable game but 1 from November 23 to February 23......i can only imagine what the players and coaches who have busted their asses all year would think after reading some of these posts from supposed " fans" of the program.
Cousin Sal and Todd on Lock It In, which is shown everyday on FS1 likes Marquette with the -3.5. Clay Travis picked St. John's.
MU -4.5 seems insane to me. Johnnie's at home, have MU's number this year, MU ice cold. Even if MU wins, I can see it being a close game. Hope I'm wrong, but this number just feels so far off.
Difficult to beat a team 3 times in one season even when you're the better team. almost impossible if you're not. We are the better team, right? We've got this.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 14, 2019, 04:51:43 PM
Difficult to beat a team 3 times in one season even when you're the better team. almost impossible if you're not. We are the better team, right? We've got this.
Yeah, we got this, we are the better team, even though the Johnnies kicked our ass twice.
Who are the incompetent refs tonight?
Wee wer da bedder teem wen St. John's wuz da Redmen, aina?
What a hilarious thread to look back on.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 14, 2019, 05:09:46 PM
Yeah, we got this, we are the better team, even though the Johnnies kicked our ass twice.
A one point loss is getting our ass kicked? SMDH
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 14, 2019, 04:51:43 PM
Difficult to beat a team 3 times in one season even when you're the better team. almost impossible if you're not. We are the better team, right? We've got this.
Mostly a myth.
In college basketball, similar. As of March 2015
"According to STATS LLC., there have been 981 similar matchups across Division I college basketball over the past 10 seasons. The teams entering the third game 2-0 are a combined 710-271 (.724 winning percentage) in the third meeting."Similar results in the NFL
Quote from: Cheeks on March 15, 2019, 12:14:06 AM
Mostly a myth.
In college basketball, similar. As of March 2015 "According to STATS LLC., there have been 981 similar matchups across Division I college basketball over the past 10 seasons. The teams entering the third game 2-0 are a combined 710-271 (.724 winning percentage) in the third meeting."
Similar results in the NFL
Think you need to read Lenny's post more closely. Yes, "hard to beat a team three times in a season" is a myth....but my guess is that it is very hard to upset a team three times in a season. MU was the favorite in all three games.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 15, 2019, 12:19:13 AM
Think you need to read Lenny's post more closely. Yes, "hard to beat a team three times in a season" is a myth....but my guess is that it is very hard to upset a team three times in a season. MU was the favorite in all three games.
Yup, that's why I said mostly a myth.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 14, 2019, 08:53:46 AM
Theo is futile offensively, cannot score n cannot make FTs, and cannot guard any SJU players. If it was me we would play Ed or Joey at the 5 tonight, bring in Theo for spot minutes or when Keita is in the game.
Offensively futile Theo had two beautiful baskets and went 5-for-7 from the line. As usual, Wojo got the most out of his 5 position.
St. Johns lost because their horrendous red chicken mascot is significantly worse looking than our chicken.
Quote from: leever on March 15, 2019, 01:07:21 PM
St. Johns lost because their horrendous red chicken mascot is significantly worse looking than our chicken.
The hell you say.
If they can base a mascot on a superhero, why can't we?
If we were still playing in the BMOHBC, I'd say maybe Batman.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_yMZWchdP1kk/S3HURU7GqhI/AAAAAAAAA0g/zzNqg6UVBKA/s400/Johnny+the+thunderbird)
Really happy with the wrinkles we saw from Wojo. There were definite adjustments made with the game plan and in game and that's a huge reason why we won
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 15, 2019, 02:02:19 PM
Really happy with the wrinkles we saw from Wojo. There were definite adjustments made with the game plan and in game and that's a huge reason why we won
There always are. Whether or not they are noticed or successful is a separate issue.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 15, 2019, 12:19:13 AM
Think you need to read Lenny's post more closely.
It's what I've been tellin' him for years. Thanks for noticing!
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 15, 2019, 02:58:03 PM
It's what I've been tellin' him for years. Thanks for noticing!
I provided the facts, it is not almost impossible even if you are the lesser team nor is it difficult even if you are the better team.
Mostly a myth with a huge sample size.
Quote from: tower912 on March 15, 2019, 02:40:49 PM
There always are. Whether or not they are noticed or successful is a separate issue.
Sometimes the prominence of them is why they're more noticeable too
Quote from: Cheeks on March 15, 2019, 03:01:33 PM
I provided the facts, it is not almost impossible even if you are the lesser team nor is it difficult even if you are the better team.
Mostly a myth with a huge sample size.
What are the percentages of an underdog in all three games winning all three games? Has it EVER happened?
Quote from: tower912 on March 15, 2019, 02:40:49 PM
There always are. Whether or not they are noticed or successful is a separate issue.
I think the adjustments are less visible to some as Wojo makes his adjustments within a system. He is a system coach like K, Bo or Bobby Knight.
Wright, on the other hand, employs more visible changes to mix it up, using more situationals. I think most BE coaches are this way because of the round robin with a short BET turnaround. Buzz was this way too but he was also tied to his base systems (see Cuse Elite 8 game). This is why Wright recruits interchangeable parts.
There is no right or wrong. Just that a fan needs put things in context and understand the base systems as the changes are more subtle in one and more visible in the other.
Quote from: muguru on March 14, 2019, 12:30:33 PM
I'd say only because the expectations for the program by the higher ups are substantially lower now then they once were. In all honesty, at a place like MU, should a 2nd place conference finish and a top 6 seed be acceptable as the best you have done in 5 years??
If we had 4 senior starters and no bench or recruiting class, I'd agree. We return everyone and seem to have quality in our sophomore & freshman classes, as well as one promising commit & other promising targets. The trending arrow is clearly headed up.
Quote from: BrewCity83 on March 15, 2019, 03:42:00 PM
What are the percentages of an underdog in all three games winning all three games? Has it EVER happened?
Difficult to say, data isn't available. Begs some questions.
Who decides the underdog? Vegas? A ranking system?
How big of an underdog? If a team is +1 all three times and wins all three times, they are technically an underdog just slightly worse than a pick'em....does that count? Vs a team that was +5 or +8. So on and so forth.
Point is, this myth that keeps coming up about beating a team 3 times is hard to do....not really....the data shows more often than not when that situation comes up, the team that won the first two will also win the third. Which is why when it is said it is DIFFICULT for the better team to do it, that is factually wrong based on the outcomes. Whether it is "nearly impossible" for the lesser team to win, as stated, I don't know. Not enough clear data to answer that one, but logically it would seem likely it would be more difficult especially if that team was significantly worse than the other. The term "significantly" leaves a lot of wiggle room and is highly subjective. My view...using Vegas betting lines is not a good idea for a myriad of reasons....odds move based on $$$ bet and doesn't always mean the better team is picked to win....lines move to keep the betting house from losing their shirt.
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 15, 2019, 02:02:19 PM
Really happy with the wrinkles we saw from Wojo. There were definite adjustments made with the game plan and in game and that's a huge reason why we won
IMHO, we won because we did a much much better job, man-up, on Ponds (cut off the head, the snake dies); because we shot nearly 50% overall and shot 43% from 3 (quite a bit better than when we lost to them by 1 last month); because we dominated the boards; because we outhustled them pretty much all game. Plus, St. John's was probably a little tired, leading to fouls on them, open looks for us, etc.
But as a Wojo fan, sure, if you want to credit him I'm good with that.
Quote from: muguru on March 14, 2019, 12:30:33 PM
I'd say only because the expectations for the program by the higher ups are substantially lower now then they once were. In all honesty, at a place like MU, should a 2nd place conference finish and a top 6 seed be acceptable as the best you have done in 5 years??
Trajectory, Trajectory. Trajectory.
Not on the front pages of Chicago Tribune for the wrong reasons. No police blotters.
Young team, good Sophomores and Bailey looks very promising as Fresh, transfer players coming in solid rep, nice recruits on the way.....trajectory, trajectory.
This is what the university wants, fine by me. We spend at a high level, trending up and what appears to be fine people representing the school, though who knows as all it takes is an incident to get sideways. The administration has to balance a lot of things, based on the number of sellouts and people excited about this year, I'd say they feel pretty damn good about things right now....and they should.
Quote from: MU82 on March 15, 2019, 04:17:39 PM
IMHO, we won because we did a much much better job, man-up, on Ponds (cut off the head, the snake dies); because we shot nearly 50% overall and shot 43% from 3 (quite a bit better than when we lost to them by 1 last month); because we dominated the boards; because we outhustled them pretty much all game. Plus, St. John's was probably a little tired, leading to fouls on them, open looks for us, etc.
But as a Wojo fan, sure, if you want to credit him I'm good with that.
We actually changed our D on Ponds a lot. Wojo talked about it in the presser, (not giving him space etc). We also doubled out high and forced the ball out of his hands. I thought clogging the middle was huge and a different wrinkle. Also having Markus play off the ball more. I thought our movement on offense and ball movement was as good as it's been. It was definitely more than doing what we'd done before but executing better
Cheeks, you keep dispelling a myth no one had said they believed in. The reason the 3 times in a season thing is a myth is because usually teams that sweep other teams are better than the team they sweep. I'm only interested in data about teams that manage to upset a superior team three times in a season. You can use whatever reasonable definition of underdog you like, but I'd bet you wouldn't find many examples of it happening.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 15, 2019, 05:57:24 PM
Cheeks, you keep dispelling a myth no one had said they believed in. The reason the 3 times in a season thing is a myth is because usually teams that sweep other teams are better than the team they sweep. I'm only interested in data about teams that manage to upset a superior team three times in a season. You can use whatever reasonable definition of underdog you like, but I'd bet you wouldn't find many examples of it happening.
Weren't we the dog in NY twice based on the line?
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 15, 2019, 07:24:57 PM
Weren't we the dog in NY twice based on the line?
I'm pretty sure we were a 1 or 2 point favorite the first time around. We were definitely a 4.5 point favorite last night.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 15, 2019, 07:37:16 PM
I'm pretty sure we were a 1 or 2 point favorite the first time around. We were definitely a 4.5 point favorite last night.
Got it remembered wrong. Either way your premise makes sense.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 15, 2019, 05:57:24 PM
Cheeks, you keep dispelling a myth no one had said they believed in. The reason the 3 times in a season thing is a myth is because usually teams that sweep other teams are better than the team they sweep. I'm only interested in data about teams that manage to upset a superior team three times in a season. You can use whatever reasonable definition of underdog you like, but I'd bet you wouldn't find many examples of it happening.
NC state-virginia 1983
jimmy V vs ralph sampson
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 15, 2019, 07:37:16 PM
I'm pretty sure we were a 1 or 2 point favorite the first time around. We were definitely a 4.5 point favorite last night.
https://www.sportsline.com/college-basketball/game-forecast/NCAAB_20190101_MARQET@STJOHN/
Quote from: Cheeks on March 15, 2019, 08:00:49 PM
https://www.sportsline.com/college-basketball/game-forecast/NCAAB_20190101_MARQET@STJOHN/
There you go! So even if St. John's won, it wouldn't have been example!
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 15, 2019, 08:12:48 PM
There you go! So even if St. John's won, it wouldn't have been example!
Goalposts keep moving
Quote from: Cheeks on March 15, 2019, 09:30:35 PM
Goalposts keep moving
Didn't move an inch. The original point was it is hard to upset a team three times in a season. You kept providing information about why its not hard to beat any team three times in a season. You have yet to provide any evidence that refutes the original point.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 15, 2019, 11:12:07 PM
Didn't move an inch. The original point was it is hard to upset a team three times in a season. You kept providing information about why its not hard to beat any team three times in a season. You have yet to provide any evidence that refutes the original point.
From what Lenny said.....they moved a mile.
Quote from: Cheeks on March 15, 2019, 11:15:51 PM
From what Lenny said.....they moved a mile.
You know what you are right. I missed the first part of Lenny's sentence. Only point I have been trying to make is that is rare that a team upsets a team three times in a season.
Quote from: barfolomew on March 15, 2019, 01:42:51 PM
The hell you say.
If they can base a mascot on a superhero, why can't we?
If we were still playing in the BMOHBC, I'd say maybe Batman.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_yMZWchdP1kk/S3HURU7GqhI/AAAAAAAAA0g/zzNqg6UVBKA/s400/Johnny+the+thunderbird)
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